[biofuel] Oil Age Eskimos

[Ramjee Swaminathan]

Oil Age Eskimos
Joseph J. Jorgensen
401 pages
University of California Press
May 1990
ASIN: 0520068432


This is one of a few fine books on the impact assessment of huge 
petro_projects - covering all aspects of 'life'; which incidentally was 
published a little less than year after the disastrous Exxon Valdez oil 
spill in March 1989.

In this book Joseph Jorgensen analyzes the impact of Alaskan oil extraction 
on Eskimo society - with a very wide canvas comprising its impact on 
village organization, economies, kinship relationships.

The author seems to have investigated three communities representing three 
environments: Gambell (St. Lawrence Island, Bering Sea), Wainwright (North 
Slope, Chukchi Sea), and Unalakleet (Norton Sound).

The Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971, which seems to have 
primarily helped and facilitated oil operations, dramatically altered the 
economic, social, and political organization of these villages and others 
like them. Although the folks belonging to these villages had experienced 
little direct economic benefit from the oil economy, they have unwittingly 
taken on many an environmental risk insidiously tossed at them by the 
industry. Jorgensen provides a detailed reminder that the Native villagers 
still depend on the harvest of naturally-occurring resources of the land 
and sea - birds, eggs, fish, plants, land mammals and sea mammals - and the 
unfortunate fact that the availability of these minimalist resources has 
also been affected...

This nice book (which of course results in a lotta bile secretion because 
of the outrageousness of the situation) is a must read for all alt_fuel 
enthusiasts (though it is very sociological in a few sections), who want to 
get hold of the big_picture applied in specific to a community of original 
americans (as opposed to (mostly) avaricious immigrants post  colombus). It 
is available free online from Univ of California press.

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt567nb8vs

Enjoy! (?)


__ramjee.

Ramjee Swaminathan | http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/ | ramjee at vsnl dot net
"the lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
-- Chaucer  


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Re: [biofuel] Isopropyl Alcohol

[TAMPAPING]

  the guy in savanna ga
   he showed me the titration test
 used a alcohol like everclear 
 he made a batch in blender ( 1 liter. blender batch)
 tested i density was 8.5
 ph was 5 i think 
i live in the tampa bay area i know someone in the cataplier org.
 i'm going to get a test from them guys 
 hey don't be a stranger 
   the ping 
 
 


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] New Distillers FAQ

[Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)]

"NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Feb'03) 

Posted near the 1st of each month, to the NEW_DISTILLERS newsgroup at 
www.yahoogroups.com 

Please email any additions, corrections, clarifications required, etc regarding 
the FAQ to Tony Ackland ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), however please direct any general 
questions to the newsgroup itself. 

*** 

1) Is distilling hard to do ? 
2) Is it legal ? 
3) Will it make me blind ? 
4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating 
column ? 
5) How do I get or make a still ? 
6) How do I make a whisky / rum / vodka / gin ? 
7) Should I use sugar or grains ? 
8) Can I use fruit wine ? 
9) How do I make a Turbo-all-sugar wash ? 
10) How do I run a Pot still ? 
11) How do I run a Reflux still ? 
12) Can I use a reflux still to make rum or whisky ? 
13) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ? 
14) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ? 
15) Why do my spirits turn cloudy when diluted ? 
16) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ? 
17) What web resources are there ? 
18) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ? 
19) Can I run my car on it ? 
20) How do I convert between gallons and litres and  
21) What is a "Thumper" ? 
22) Can methylated spirits be made safe to drink ? 

** 

1) Is distilling hard to do ?

Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can 
sucessfully distil. To distil well however, will require you to understand what 
you're doing, so read around and get a bit of information under your belt 
before you begin. 

2) Is it legal ?

Probably not. It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries turn 
a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with punishment ranging from 
fines to imprisonment or floggings. This action against it is usually the 
result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more generally due to 
the great revenue base it provides Governements through excise taxes. So if you 
are going to distil, just be aware of the potential legal ramifications. 

3) Will it make me blind ?

Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore, which 
abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. The concern 
is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic nerve poison, which 
can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains or fruits high in 
pectin. This methanol comes off first from the still, so it is easily 
segregated and discarded, and easily observed via changes in the vapour 
temperature. A simple rule of thumb for this is to throw away the first 50 mL 
you collect (per 20 L mash used). Probably the greatest risk to your health 
during distilling is the risk of fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a 
heat source. So keep a fire extinguisher nearby. 

The cases where you do hear about people poisoned by "illict spirits" have been 
the terrible situations where adulterants such as methanol, antifreeze, battery 
acid etc have been added to the spirits afterwards by unscrupulous sellers (for 
what misguided reasons ??). If you have had a healthy fermentation take place, 
it is infact very difficult to make methanol. The other problems have been lead 
poisoning when people have used lead-based products (ie lead solder) when 
constructing their still, instead of something more appropriate for food-grade 
vessels. The rules should infact be "dont buy spirits from an unknown supplier" 
- but its very safe to distill for yourself. 

4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating 
column ?

A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off the 
boiling mash. This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity, with 
plenty of flavour in it. If this distillate were put through the pot still 
again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85% purity, and lose a bit of 
its flavour. 

A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by having 
some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and allowing some of 
the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the packing. This "reflux" 
of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and increase the % purity. The taller 
the packed column, and the more reflux liquid, the purer the product will be. 
The advantage of doing this is that it will result in a clean vodka, with 
little flavour to it - ideal for mixing with flavours etc. 

A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still. It will condense all 
the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10 back down the 
column. The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4 foot), and packed 
with a material high in surface area, but which takes up little space (pot 
scrubbers are good for this). It will result in an alcohol 95%+ pure (the 
theore

RE: [biofuel] 1000 Acres For Veg Oil?

[Heath Blount]

Edward,


 check out the USDA section on rural biomass grants, if your interested in
dealing with the Govt.  There is a lot of money out there for bio-based
projects.


http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/solicitations/solicitations.asp
http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/pdfs/BiomassRFP2003.pdf

Good luck

Heath
Local Energy


-Original Message-
From: Edward Mendoza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:31 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] 1000 Acres For Veg Oil?


I have been talking with a local farmer who has told me that it would take
at least 1000 acres of a veg oil producing crop in order to make the
investment viable for the purpose of fuel.

Can anyone here please give me some feedback on this?

Also, we are a cooperative of folks who collect WVO for our converted diesel
cars that run on 100% veggie. Does anyone have any ideas of how we could
organize, finance, etc, a 1000 acre farm for veg oil fuel production? Are
there any foundations, grants, endowments, govt. programs, etc that would
help us get this started?

Thank you very much in advance,

Edward Mendoza
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
707.537.7392
211 Hayman Court
Santa Rosa, CA 95409








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[biofuel] the tax thing Re: A bit on business

[girl_mark_fire]

Here's a crosspost from another thread (the blogs thread 
at infopop) 
about the IRS federal excise tax exemption for homemade biodiesel (I 
think they adapted it from some other fuel application but have made 
it clear in other statements that they apply this to homebrew 
biodiesel) and what Tom was quoting as '400-gallons-per-year. Ken 
Provost and I read the same quote and see 400 per quarter, whereas 
Tom reads it and sees 400 gallons per year exemption. What are we 
seeing differently?

Quote:
"Homestead Member  posted 08 January 04 09:04 AM
IRS exemption 

Mark, small update to your last posting, the IRS exemption for road 
tax is for up to 400 gallons per year, not per quarter. Tax code as 
per below.
Tom Leue

Internal Revenue Service
26 CFR Parts 40, 42, 48, and 602 [TD 8659] RIN 1545-AR92
Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Excise Tax; Registration Requirements

(c) Blended taxable fuel, diesel fuel, and gasoline blendstocks; 
definitions--(1) Blended taxable fuel--(i) In general. Except as 
provided in paragraphs (c)(1)(ii) and (c)(iii) of this section, 
blended taxable fuel means any mixture that is produced outside the 
bulk transfer/terminal system and that consists of--
(A) Taxable fuel with respect to which tax has been imposed
under section 4041(a)(1) or 4081(a); and
(B) Any other liquid on which tax has not been imposed under
section 4081.
(ii) Exclusion; minor blending. A mixture described in paragraph (c)
(1)(i) of this section is not blended taxable fuel if, during the 
calendar quarter in which the blender removes or sells the mixture, 
all such mixtures removed or sold by the blender contain, in the 
aggregate, less than 400 gallons of liquid described in paragraph (c)
(1)(i)(B) of this section."


and Ken Provost's response... 
"provo 
Member  posted 08 January 04 09:42 PM 
I dunno 

that sounds like 400 gal a
quarter to ME! Am I missing
something here?. -K  "
 




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[biofuel] I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[mymommyathome]

If you really want to make biodiesel a household item, think about 
investing in its commercial production.

It is simple a commercial plant cost 3 Million.  I need only 3,000 
investors who want to invest $1000 dollars.

Here is how you make a return.  For every $1000 dollars you invest 
you will get an allotment of gallons of biodiesel every year at less 
than market price (to be determined) you can either take delivery of 
the biodiesel or sell your allotment and we will send you a check.

We need as a group make it economically feasible for biodiesel to 
become a reality.   

Once we are up and running we will be developing small production 
units available to everyone who wants to buy one.  We also will come 
to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home 
production unit for safety reasons.  

We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and 
use it!

If you are interested to invest send me an email at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] no obligation to invest.  Once we 
reach 2,000 investors then we will send you a email asking for a 
decision.

Thanks,

Greg Walburn
founder
Biodiesel of America Inc.










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Re: [biofuel] newbie

[TAMPAPING]

  you'll love it 
how far along are you from doin a small blender worth 
 got a connection for wvo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] newbie

[TAMPAPING]

  Just keep reading 
 it's like a light bulb  going on 
  you read and ask questions   remember the only stupid question .. is 
the one not asked
   no one tells ya, there are two or three ways of doing this find alittle 
oil 
 go from there  



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[biofuel] Plastic #4...?

[Paul B.Schmidt]

I'm looking for a flat out list of which types of plastic 
-#1,2,3,4,... 
are good to use and which one's aren't.  I have a #4 trash can I'm 
thinking of using for a washing tub, but will it rot out?  Tried to 
search through JTF... but didn't find it or missed it.  Anybody?

- Paul



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[biofuel] gas Saving Device

[albert_kwong2]

Thanks Jason for the good info , I will kep that in mind 
should they 
hassle me again , but fortunately I have not put my money down despit 
their repeated effort ..

your advice gave me another thought on another of my unfortunate 
encounter ... I have a client in Okla€ž( we are in Hong Kong ) who 
has a oil co and retained us to do consulting work in China , to make 
a long story short , it has promised us some shares of the project 
and also some fee every month , and all went well ... but then they 
denied to pay us after they failed to find other venture 
partners  and drag their feet for 2 years on us until the bill 
added up to almost $500,000 !!!€žand we could not do anything about 
it !!

They dont reply to us , dont answer phone , I have a attorney call 
them , they denied it all totally and said its my own risk and my own 
cost ..and the contract is not valid ...etc ..yet he continue to do 
biz and live the good life ...( at our and other victims expense ) 

The guy probably think that he is in Okla , and we are in Hong Kong , 
and there is nothing we can do ...I also learn that he owe a lot of 
people ( in UK , Mid East and Asia ) lots of money ..

Your letter suggest to contact the Attorney General give me a new 
light into the thing ...I never heard or thought of it ...if it can 
help , I can recover some money and at least can donate some to 
Biofuel or Wastewatts research ...and see justice served for the 
small guys ..also stop more people getting hurt ..

There are just too many " bad guys " out there !! we small guys need 
to protect ourself 

thanks >..€žbut can you give me some lead on how to contact the 
Governor or€žAG in Okla or in US as a start ??€ž

Where are you ???   I am in Hong Kong , but used to live in Texas , 
Okla and Calif ..

best

AK



At 02:23 PM 1/28/04 -0600, you wrote: 

Hello Albert,

€‹
I was just reading your post on wastewatts about the fuel saver 
device. ۂ m sorry to hear about your troubles. ۂ wanted to write a 
quick note and let you know that you would be doing the people of 
your state, and likely others, by reporting the ads and experience to 
your state s attorney general.€žI had a friend who s daughter bought 
some magazines from an ad in the paper only to have them demand under 
threat that she pay something like $1500 for the magazines (3 or 4).€ž
Needless to say, this was an attempt at ripping her off.€žMy friend 
simply got a hold of than Governor Janklow (S.D.), who had the 
attorney general prosecute them.€žThey ended up with a legal bill of 
$50,000 + and were banned from selling in, I think, 5-6 states.€žA 
little complaining can really help!! (:€ž

€‹
I hope you find this helpful.€žHave a great day!

€‹
Jason Graves

€‹
€‹






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Re: [biofuel] Re: A bit on business

[Tilapia]

Oops, I'm bad. I just reviewed and you're correct. But 
why did I pay them all 
that money?

Tom

In a message dated 1/28/04 7:27:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Tom, you're definitely reading it wrong, and you've been corrected on
> this at infopop by Ken Provost. It's 'per quarter', which makes it
> 1600 gallons per year..
> 
> Mark
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Got to correct one error that has been repeated several times on
> this list.
> > The IRS exemption is for a total of 400 gallons per year, not 400
> per quarter.€‹> >€žIt makes quite a difference.
> >
> > Tom Leue
> 






-
Homestead Inc.
www.yellowbiodiesel.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] Mettler Gram-Matic Balance Questions

[Alan Petrillo]

Maud Essen wrote:

> A local university tagged it for disposal, not because it didn't work 
> but because it was old (according to my friend who scavenged it for 
> me *before* it was hurled into a dumpster). 

I've seen a lot of that.

Fortunately, most of the schools around here usually auction off their 
surplus equipment.  About the only exception is with equipment gotten as 
grants.  There's some stupid rule that they can't sell the stuff, so 
when it becomes obsolete it sits in a closet for a couple of decades 
until someone can get clearance to dispose of it, at which point it 
usually wind up in a dumpster.  When St. Petersburg (Junior) College got 
rid of their DEC PDP-11/70 minicomputer I could have had it for the 
price of hauling it away.  Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I 
didn't have a place to put it, so it went into the dumpster.  What 
really sucks is that they didn't even recycle it.


AP


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Re: [biofuel] Mettler Gram-Matic Balance Questions

[Maud Essen]

Thank you, Jay, for the details. I'm going to attempt this operation 
next weekend, as this weekend is my beloved nephew's 10th birthday 
and there will be many celebrations. I hope you'll field questions if 
I become totally confused!

I bet I'm going to have to find the knife edges are not sharp. If 
that's the case, do I replace them directly from Mettler or do I have 
other choices?

As for a solid surface, the most immovable objects in my home are 
cast iron radiators. My central heating system is hot water, not 
steam, so the temperature rises and falls slowly. At its hottest, the 
temperature on top of the radiator is probably less than 80F (as I 
have radiator covers that direct the heat out at a lower level). As a 
point of comparison, the ambient temperature here in the summertime 
is often over 90F (at 95F I break down and turn on the AC). Is it 
possible that the radiator heat (winter only, of course) wouldn't 
bother it or would I be better to try to figure something else out?

Thanks again!

Maud

>In a message dated 1/26/04 11:41:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>>  A local university tagged it for disposal, not because it didn't work
>>  but because it was old (according to my friend who scavenged it for
>>  me *before* it was hurled into a dumpster). You're right, Barry, that
>>  there might be someone there who would still know how to operate it.
>>  But I doubt anyone would know how to calibrate it as there is a
>>  sticker inside that says that Mettler last did this for them in 1995.
>>  After I learn how to calibrate it I hope it'll be easy to figure out
>>  how to operate it. Thanks! Maud
>>
>
>I have one of the wonderful Mettler balances.  The instruction manual is not
>especially helpful for calibration.  It is a starting point, but you have to
>learn what to do yourself.  Thereafter, it is no problem.  You need a precise,
>one-gram weight.  I wasn't satisfied with the brass weights sold commercially
>so I went to a jewelry supply store and bought one gram of platinum.  This
>won't oxidize and is as close to one true gram as is possible.  Yes, 
>you can use
>one milliliter of distilled water, too, but it won't necessarily be
>reproducible.  I keep the weight in a glass vial inside the top 
>compartment of the
>balance and handle it only with tongs. 
>
>There are two adjustments on the balance: zero and span.  You have to zero
>the balance unloaded, then add the weight and adjust the span to 1. gram. 
>Next, add 1. gram to the beam and see that the indicator needle reads
>1..  If not, adjust the zero again.  Then respan it.  It is an iterative
>procedure. 
>
>Importanly, be sure the knife edges are sharp.  You will not be accurate nor
>be able to properly calibrate the instrument if the agate edges have been
>damaged by careless users, or if the instrument was not properly 
>locked prior to
>moving it.  If they are damaged, replace them.
>
>Finally, be sure the balance is on a firm base, not prone to vibration if
>someone walks across the floor.  I used an old marble butcher table which was
>thoughtfully cut into three pieces for me:  two legs and a top. 
>
>This balance is tops.  Keep it clean.  Do not abuse it and it will last your
>lifetime and beyond.
>
>-- Jay Stern
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Fuel from Pine roots?

[Alan Petrillo]

look4bryan wrote:

> This is my first post to the Group, hello everyone.  
> 
> I recall reading recently that Japanese aviation fuel in WWII was
> alchohol, not gasoline.  

Possibly, but I doubt it.  Where did you read that?

> Recall that one of the reasons they went to
> war was because the US cut them off (in their view, I'm not a
> historian) from oil supplies in Indonesia, 

It was partially the Americans, but we were only a small part.  All of 
the western colonial powers were monopolizing the raw materials in the 
area.  The Japanese opinion at the time, as I understand it, was that 
the western colonial powers were collectively strangling Japan's economy 
by charging high prices for the raw materials that they controlled.  The 
English, French, and Dutch all had equal, if not larger, parts to the US 
in the area.

There is a certain case to be made for the Japanese viewpoint at the 
beginning of the Second World War.  But, as they say, history is written 
by the victors.

> so it is likely that Japan
> was one of the early leaders in alternate fuels for reciprocating
> engines.  So perhaps what they were making from pine was methanol or
> ethanol, or from other wood products.
> 
> Be interested in finding out more about the subject though...

Indeed it would.


AP


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Re: [biofuel] gas Saving Device

[Ken Gotberg]

Hi Albert

You can try the US Embassy in HK if there still is one
there.  A friend in Indonesia got a bad check from an
American for teak furniture that he took with him.  I
told her to try the US Embassy in Jakarta and believe
it or not, they put pressure on the jerk and she got
her money!!

Good luck

Ken

> has a oil co and retained us to do consulting work
> to make 
> a long story short , it has promised us some shares
> of the project 
> and also some fee every month , and all went well
> ... but then they 
> denied to pay us after they failed to find other
> venture 
> partners  and drag their feet for 2 years on us
> until the bill 
> added up to almost $500,000 !!!€žand we could not do
> anything about 
> it !!
> 


__
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[biofuel] international fraud

[MALONEKR]

US federal trade commission may help you even thou they could not help us on 
a deal with an eastern eureopean company.goverments work slowly,so put in your 
documantation and go on about your life.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Plastic #4...?

[Keith Addison]

>I'm looking for a flat out list of which types of plastic -#1,2,3,4,...
>are good to use and which one's aren't.  I have a #4 trash can I'm
>thinking of using for a washing tub, but will it rot out?  Tried to
>search through JTF... but didn't find it or missed it.  Anybody?
>
>- Paul

Identifying plastics
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics


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RE: [biofuel] Washing info and water pollution

[Franklin B. Del Rosario]

My problem is not washing BD but how to treat the soap 
water before
damping to sewer line before I have a lot of soap water stock in my 2
pieces 100 liters plastic drum because I can still collect small amount
of BD floating above the soap water and I don’t want to damp my first
wash water directly to drain pipe and contribute water pollution in my
neighborhood. As much as possible I maximized the used of water for
washing. 

I asked my chemist friend if there is a way of removing soap residue in
my soap water after washing BD but he gave me more problem than solution
such as enzyme, bacteria and others.

Any suggestion from our group members of how to treat soap or remove
soap before pouring my washing water into city sewer line

My initial remedy is I dug a pit deep enough to accomdate my wash water
for natural seepage but when rainy day come the pit will be pull of rain
water and soap mixed. It a remedial solution and better have permanent
remedies to eliminate water pollution. 

Franklin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:29 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing info

Cool Deal,

That all makes sense to me.  I will use the bubble washing process.  I
have 
made what I think is 3 one litre batches of biodiesel.  2 from new oil
and 1 
from used oil.  All 3 have seperated very clearly.  I am going to try to
wash 
the 3 and see what happens.

Thanks
Rick M
Brownstown, Mi

I reckon most washing problems are really processing problems in drag.

Standard bubblewashing is recommended Rick.

Best

Keith


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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R: [biofuel] Washing info and water pollution

[Larosa Rodolfo]

DEar Franklin,

to evitate soap formation is neccesary use neutral oil, or oil with low acid
content. Is possible previously neutralize the oil with diluted soda
solution, and then separate the acqueous( heavier) soap solution. But first
of transesterification reaction is neccesary dried the oil. This is possible
by means of hot the oil at 120-130ˆÁ, a atmospheric pressure, or better at
reduced pressure (vacuum). In this manner the oil is ready for a good
transesterification and you will obtain a product without soap.

Rodolfo


- Original Message -
From: Franklin B. Del Rosario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Washing info and water pollution


My problem is not washing BD but how to treat the soap water before
damping to sewer line before I have a lot of soap water stock in my 2
pieces 100 liters plastic drum because I can still collect small amount
of BD floating above the soap water and I don't want to damp my first
wash water directly to drain pipe and contribute water pollution in my
neighborhood. As much as possible I maximized the used of water for
washing.

I asked my chemist friend if there is a way of removing soap residue in
my soap water after washing BD but he gave me more problem than solution
such as enzyme, bacteria and others.

Any suggestion from our group members of how to treat soap or remove
soap before pouring my washing water into city sewer line

My initial remedy is I dug a pit deep enough to accomdate my wash water
for natural seepage but when rainy day come the pit will be pull of rain
water and soap mixed. It a remedial solution and better have permanent
remedies to eliminate water pollution.

Franklin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:29 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing info

Cool Deal,

That all makes sense to me.  I will use the bubble washing process.  I
have
made what I think is 3 one litre batches of biodiesel.  2 from new oil
and 1
from used oil.  All 3 have seperated very clearly.  I am going to try to
wash
the 3 and see what happens.

Thanks
Rick M
Brownstown, Mi

I reckon most washing problems are really processing problems in drag.

Standard bubblewashing is recommended Rick.

Best

Keith


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] About Bamboo

[Ken Gotberg]

Hi Kieth

Here's something for the bamboo archivges

Ken

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/home_and_garden/article/0,1651,TCP_1039_2558657,00.html

Bamboozled

By Pat Rubin Scripps Howard News Service
January 11, 2004

Bill Sleuter has been making forays into his
neighbor's garden, not to pick tomatoes or squash but
to remove wayward bamboo shoots. 

His hedge of golden bamboo and black bamboo has broken
free of its barriers and is silently sending
underground runners in search of new land. 

Sleuter thought he had the situation under control
when he landscaped some 20 years ago. Knowing bamboo's
aggressive reputation, the Davis, Calif., homeowner
sank 3-foot-tall culverts of concrete and corrugated
metal about 18 inches into the ground to prevent the
underground stems from spreading. 

But about 10 years ago the bamboo began to grow over
the barriers. "I didn't think they would ever escape,"
he says. 

Such experiences make gardeners shudder at the thought
of letting such a rampant thug loose in the garden.
But there is a bamboo that behaves among shrubs and
perennials and won't bother the neighbors. 

Unlike running bamboo that can send rhizomes as far
away as 20 feet, clumping bamboo stays where you put
it. "It increases gradually at its perimeter in a
generally symmetrical fashion," says Ted Jordan
Meredith, author of "Bamboo for Gardens" (Timber
Press, $39.95). 

Clumping bamboos range in size from a few feet to more
than 60 feet tall. The stems, or culms, may be
pencil-thin or a massive 8 inches in diameter. Some
are brightly colored or striped yellow and green. The
leaves of some varieties are narrow while others are
large and lush. Some types grow stiffly upright while
others arch or weep gracefully. 

Gardeners should have no problems deciding where to
put them. If you have room in your garden for a
hydrangea, ornamental grasses or a specimen tree, then
you'll easily be able to slip in a clumping bamboo. 

Clumping bamboos available to home gardeners fall
under five genuses: Bambusa, Fargesia, Otatea,
Himalayacalamus and Chusquea. While many come from
tropical or subtropical latitudes, these bamboos grow
well here with ample, regular water, says Darrel De-
Boer, president of the Northern California Chapter of
the American Bamboo Society. 

Bambusa 

The genus Bambusa contains about 140 species. They
like lots of sun and warmth, says Jesus Mora of Bamboo
Sourcery, a bamboo nursery in Sebastopol, Calif.
Shoots come up year-round, but mainly in late summer
and fall, and many can take full sun. Somewhat cold
sensitive, most tolerate temperatures as low as 26
degrees, although some can take much lower
temperatures. 

The most common varieties are Oldham bamboo (B.
oldhamii), Buddha's Belly (B. tuldoides ventricosa
"Buddha's Belly"), common bamboo (B. vulgaris) and B.
multiplex varieties. 

Don Shor of Redwood Barn Nursery in Davis, Calif.,
calls the genus Bambusa "the most useful and
absolutely reliable." 

His best-selling variety is B. multiplex "Alphonse
Karr" with its bright yellow and green striped culms.
"It's very manageable in the garden," Shor says. "It
fits in a narrow area with its upright stems." 

Alphonse Karr grows as high as 35 feet, but its culms
are only about 1-1/2 inches in diameter. It is hardy
to 12 degrees. 

Other B. multiplex varieties, such as Golden Goddess
and Fernleaf, can be used as hedges. "They give the
garden an Asian look without taking up a lot of room,"
Shor says. 

When people want a big bamboo, Shor steers them toward
Buddha's Belly and Oldham Bamboo. B. tuldoides
ventricosa "Buddha's Belly" gets its name from its
unusually swollen nodes. The condition is a response
to stress, such as drought. Shor's 15-year-old clump
is 20 feet tall and 8 feet across. It arches
dramatically and takes up no more space than a large
shrub or tree. 

Perhaps the most dramatic Bambusa is B. oldhamii with
its fat shoots pushing up as high as 60 feet. A
50-year-old clump of Oldham bamboo in La Jolla,
Calif., is 8 feet across and 35 feet tall. 

FARGESIA 

Mora says the genus Fargesia is very hardy. They are
mainly small to medium-size bamboos, he said, from
western and southwest China. It is a genus in flux.
Meredith says Fargesia was once thought to be a small
genus, but it now contains about 80 species. 

The two most commonly available, F. nitia and F.
murieliae, can take temperatures down to minus 20
degrees. They don't like dry, sunny conditions, so
plant them under trees or near shrubs, Mora says. F.
nitida culms have a bluish blush when immature, then
mature to dark green, sometimes with a reddish tinge.
Leaves are small and delicate. The clump grows stiffly
upright and sends new shoots throughout the summer and
into early fall. 

F. murieliae is called umbrella bamboo because "the
upper portion of the culms arch in a manner
reminiscent of an umbrella's shape," Meredith says.
Calling it a choice ornamental, he recommends giving
it room to show off its arching shape. 

OTATEA 

Two speci

Re: [biofuel] Washing info and water pollution

[Appal Energy]

Franklin,

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salt) added to your waste wash water will alter the
suspended soaps from dissolvable sodium or potassium to insolvent magnesium
soaps. These will rise to the water's surface in the form of a greasy solid
that can captured and used in a lubricating capacity or burned as a solid
fuel.. Aluminum sulfate might also work.

This will mean the chemical substitution of the sodium or potassium "x-oate"
with sodium or potassium sulfate, which brings up  two points.

One, better to use potassium hydroxide as the catalyst as their is greater
use for potassium waste products as fertilizing agents than for sodium.

Two, the use of the acid/base process reduces total chemical inputs, which
in turn reduces waste stream volume, both water and chemicals.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "Franklin B. Del Rosario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:14 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Washing info and water pollution


My problem is not washing BD but how to treat the soap water before
damping to sewer line before I have a lot of soap water stock in my 2
pieces 100 liters plastic drum because I can still collect small amount
of BD floating above the soap water and I don't want to damp my first
wash water directly to drain pipe and contribute water pollution in my
neighborhood. As much as possible I maximized the used of water for
washing.

I asked my chemist friend if there is a way of removing soap residue in
my soap water after washing BD but he gave me more problem than solution
such as enzyme, bacteria and others.

Any suggestion from our group members of how to treat soap or remove
soap before pouring my washing water into city sewer line

My initial remedy is I dug a pit deep enough to accomdate my wash water
for natural seepage but when rainy day come the pit will be pull of rain
water and soap mixed. It a remedial solution and better have permanent
remedies to eliminate water pollution.

Franklin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:29 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing info

Cool Deal,

That all makes sense to me.  I will use the bubble washing process.  I
have
made what I think is 3 one litre batches of biodiesel.  2 from new oil
and 1
from used oil.  All 3 have seperated very clearly.  I am going to try to
wash
the 3 and see what happens.

Thanks
Rick M
Brownstown, Mi

I reckon most washing problems are really processing problems in drag.

Standard bubblewashing is recommended Rick.

Best

Keith


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] Plastic PVC & biodiesel

[Tilapia]

Please clarify, if possible: rumor says that PVC pipe is incompatible with 
biodiesel. After 4+ years of operation, I saw no deterioration in the methoxide 
line that had PVC with solvent welded joints. The threaded joints did weep 
methoxide, and had to be replaced, but the straight sections were OK. 
Questions- does PVC work less well with WVO, biodiesel or methoxide?   Would 
Schedule 
80 PVC fail to serve? In building our new refinery, PVC would be far cheaper 
and more flexible than iron piping.

I couldn't see this at 
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics

Tom Leue

-
Homestead Inc.
www.yellowbiodiesel.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] the tax thing Re: A bit on business

[Dan Maker]

girl_mark_fire said:
> 
> Internal Revenue Service
> 26 CFR Parts 40, 42, 48, and 602 [TD 8659] RIN 1545-AR92
> Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Excise Tax; Registration Requirements



> (1)(i) of this section is not blended taxable fuel if, during the
> calendar quarter in which the blender removes or sells the mixture,
> all such mixtures removed or sold by the blender contain, in the
> aggregate, less than 400 gallons of liquid described in paragraph (c)
> (1)(i)(B) of this section."

In (1) (i) it clearly refers to quarter and and a 400 gal. limmit.
Unless the referenced sections of code say other wise, it sounds like
it is a 400 gal./quarter limit, not 400 gal./yr.

OTOH, IANAL or a CPA/Tax expert.

Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard

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[biofuel] Re: Plastic PVC & biodiesel

[Keith Addison]

>FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>DATE: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:53:59 EST
>SUBJECT: Plastic PVC & biodiesel
>
>Please clarify, if possible: rumor says that PVC pipe is incompatible with
>biodiesel. After 4+ years of operation, I saw no deterioration in 
>the methoxide
>line that had PVC with solvent welded joints. The threaded joints did weep
>methoxide, and had to be replaced, but the straight sections were OK.
>Questions- does PVC work less well with WVO, biodiesel or methoxide? 
>Would Schedule
>80 PVC fail to serve? In building our new refinery, PVC would be far cheaper
>and more flexible than iron piping.
>
>I couldn't see this at
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics
>
>Tom Leue
>
>-
>Homestead Inc.
>www.yellowbiodiesel.com

Rumour? Dunno about any rumours. I also don't know what you expected 
to see there, but the "Identifying plastics" link at JtF that you 
refer to provides three external links. The first, to the American 
Plastics Council, says: "Vinyl (Polyvinyl Chloride or PVC): In 
addition to its stable physical properties, PVC has excellent 
chemical resistance, good weatherability, flow characteristics and 
stable electrical properties."

The third link, to Cole-Parmer's Chemical Resistance Database, 
provided this information:

The Material Selected --PVC
Interacting with the Chemical --Sodium Hydroxide (80%)
Has a Compatibility Level of -- A- Excellent

The Material Selected --PVC
Interacting with the Chemical --Methanol (Methyl Alcohol)
Has a Compatibility Level of -- A1- Excellent

The Material Selected --PVC
Interacting with the Chemical --Oils:Soybean
Has a Compatibility Level of -- A1- Excellent

I'm sure you can manage to do the rest for yourself, they're all 
there, all the different oils, the various fatty acids and so on.

You're not doing too well at the moment when it comes to seeing 
what's right there. Anyway, if you're into building a new refinery, 
with a corporate "our", maybe you can hire a consultant to tell you 
these things, eh?

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever


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[biofuel] Re: I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[Keith Addison]

>If you really want to make biodiesel a household item, think about
>investing in its commercial production.
>
>It is simple a commercial plant cost 3 Million.  I need only 3,000
>investors who want to invest $1000 dollars.
>
>Here is how you make a return.  For every $1000 dollars you invest
>you will get an allotment of gallons of biodiesel every year at less
>than market price (to be determined) you can either take delivery of
>the biodiesel or sell your allotment and we will send you a check.
>
>We need as a group make it economically feasible for biodiesel to
>become a reality.
>
>Once we are up and running we will be developing small production
>units available to everyone who wants to buy one.  We also will come
>to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home
>production unit for safety reasons.
>
>We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and
>use it!
>
>If you are interested to invest send me an email at
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] no obligation to invest.  Once we
>reach 2,000 investors then we will send you a email asking for a
>decision.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Walburn
>founder
>Biodiesel of America Inc.


:-) Heh.

Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.? 
And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide some 
details.

Taking it at face value, meanwhile... Has it escaped your notice that 
there are already several large-scale, centralized, commercial 
biodiesel producers in America, and in many other places too? 
Actually we don't have a very high opinion of them, in general - we 
tend to think "Big Biofuels" might just turn out to be as big a 
nightmare as Big Oil has been, with wall-to-wall industrialized 
monocrops of GMO soy and canola, for one thing, along with all the 
usual "externalisations". The silly thing about that, or one of them 
anyway, is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would 
be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping 
of anything else is. Not exactly the best way to produce sustainable 
biofuels, nor any way at all towards a sustainable energy future.

What you'll mostly see here about the big companies is news of yet 
another case of a commercial company causing problems distributing 
sub-standard biodiesel, discussion of how they bend their own rules 
to exclude small-producers, and of how they only promote B20, and at 
best don't know much about B100 or at worst they're against it.

Anyway, as far as making biodiesel "a household item" is concerned, 
the NBB was recently given a large grant to do just that, which 
caused some chuckles here on the lists because they're not very good 
at it (though they seem to be pretty good at writing grant 
proposals), nor are their commercial-producer members much good at 
it, despite their big PR agency accounts. In fact they admit that 
we're much better at it than they are (and we do it for nothing).

No, another commercial producer isn't going to change anything much, 
even if it happens. A really sustainable energy future will take a 
lot more than merely substituting biofuels for fossil-fuels, it needs 
greatly reduced energy use, greatly improved energy efficiency, and 
most important, decentralization of supply to the local level.

Which last brings us to this:

>Once we are up and running we will be developing small production
>units available to everyone who wants to buy one.  We also will come
>to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home
>production unit for safety reasons.
>
>We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and
>use it!

Oh dear, more one-size-fits-all ready-made biodiesel processors, 
something else that has failed to impress. Do an archive search for 
"Fuelmeister", for instance:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

That aside, I don't see how you're going to fit this last bit into 
the same package as a large commercial plant, they're two quite 
different operations with virtually nothing in common, or even 
incompatible: a big, centralised producer undermining its own market 
potential by encouraging independent, localised production of the 
same product? I don't think it'll look good in your business plan.

Only a tiny minority will ever be willing to make their own fuel 
anyway, no matter how push-button it might become in the future - 
"home production units" are not an answer to the energy crisis, 
except for pioneers like the list members here, who'll much more 
likely design and built their own processors. Small, local-niche, 
community-level, farm-scale production is the real answer, and that's 
the opposite of your scheme, despite this local angle you've tagged 
on to the end.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever





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[biofuel] Webiste down??

[Paul B . Schmidt]

I cant hit the web site on a link from a posting today?  Anybody else or is it 
just a local thing?  Still up?  Virus attack?  "The MAN" shuttin us down?!

- Paul


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RE: [biofuel] I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[Bryan Brah]

Let's see, if I give you $1000 dollars, you will, at some undetermined
time in the future, sell me an undetermined amount of biodiesel at an
undetermined price.  Since there isn't really a "market price" per se
for BD, you're going to have to come up with something better than that.
I've heard of folks paying only slightly more for biodiesel than
dinodiesel (rarely), or as much as $2.50 or more per gallon, and some
home producers share their production with friends for the cost to
produce (as low as 60 cents per gallon) or for a little help collecting
WVO. So market price is very subjective, actually it is whatever the
market will bear.

 

Even so, let's assume that I use BD, but don't make my own, and that the
discount you'll give me is a very generous $1 per gallon below market
price.  That means that I would have to use 1,000 gallons of BD to make
my money back.  At a consumption rate of 20 gallons per week, it would
take me nearly a year to break even.  And this is on top of the time it
will take you to build the plant and start production.  Of course you
said that alternately you'll sell the fuel and cut me a check for the
difference, but that plan would still require you to sell 3 million
gallons to pay back the original investors. To meet the plan discussed
above for 3000 investors using the same 20 gallons per week would
require you to divert around 8200 gallons per day of production.  How
big did you say your plant was going to be?  Oh, that's right, you
didn't say.  And I really doubt that you'll discount your fuel $1 per
gallon.  

 

This whole deal sounds like snake oil to me.  You'd have better luck
getting investors if you could promise to sell x gallons at x price for
x months or years and put it in writing.

 

-BRAH

 

  

 

-Original Message-
From: mymommyathome [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:48 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

 




If you really want to make biodiesel a household item, think about 
investing in its commercial production.

It is simple a commercial plant cost 3 Million.  I need only 3,000 
investors who want to invest $1000 dollars.

Here is how you make a return.  For every $1000 dollars you invest 
you will get an allotment of gallons of biodiesel every year at less 
than market price (to be determined) you can either take delivery of 
the biodiesel or sell your allotment and we will send you a check.

We need as a group make it economically feasible for biodiesel to 
become a reality.   

Once we are up and running we will be developing small production 
units available to everyone who wants to buy one.  We also will come 
to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home 
production unit for safety reasons.  

We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and 
use it!

If you are interested to invest send me an email at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] no obligation to invest.  Once we 
reach 2,000 investors then we will send you a email asking for a 
decision.

Thanks,

Greg Walburn
founder
Biodiesel of America Inc.











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[biofuel] Great letter Keith

[mymommyathome]

I agree with some of your assumptions.  However when it 
comes to 
capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.

If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would 
be much lower if we did not "mass produce".  Yes, there are a number 
of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.

The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are 
sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take 
3% of that market.

What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to 
those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe 
me, it takes more time and energy than most think) then we as a 
company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best 
marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who 
want to try. 

I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is 
possible economically.  Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look 
into building direct oil engines.

This all takes money to make it happen, and the idea of having a 
commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer 
and renewable energy helps Americans.  It will help Ameicans because 
of a cheaper fuel is available.  It will help Americans because 
there will be a job created.

And yes, we will help small suppliers get up and running.  But what 
about the family that has no plot of land, no way to make their own 
fuel, where do they get it if it is all locally made?

Keith there is plenty of users of bio-diesel that will not and 
cannot make their own fuel to make our plant run at 100% capacity.

Here is to the FREE market of ideas. 

We will be giving out research in all areas of bio-diesel production.

Bio-Diesel is an infant in the arena of fuels. Killing the baby will 
not do any of us a favor.

Greg



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Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith

[Hakan Falk]

Greg, Bryan. Keith. 

If we look at the biofuels as business venture, I belive that we will see a 
market organization that is going to be similar to the milk markets. In 
this will always be space for small to big ventures and many of them. The 
reason for the existence of big oil is the opportunity to centralize and 
monopolize the source development. This opportunity does not exist for 
biofuels and even with attempts to protective legislation, supported by 
corrupted political system, it will always be a larger diversity for 
production of biofuels. Biofuels will have to follow agriculture business 
models and it will be both good and bad samples of opportunities in this.

Hakan



At 19:12 29/01/2004, you wrote:
>I agree with some of your assumptions.  However when it comes to
>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.
>
>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".  Yes, there are a number
>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.
>
>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
>3% of that market.
>
>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
>me, it takes more time and energy than most think) then we as a
>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
>want to try.
>
>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
>possible economically.  Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
>into building direct oil engines.
>
>This all takes money to make it happen, and the idea of having a
>commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer
>and renewable energy helps Americans.  It will help Ameicans because
>of a cheaper fuel is available.  It will help Americans because
>there will be a job created.
>
>And yes, we will help small suppliers get up and running.  But what
>about the family that has no plot of land, no way to make their own
>fuel, where do they get it if it is all locally made?
>
>Keith there is plenty of users of bio-diesel that will not and
>cannot make their own fuel to make our plant run at 100% capacity.
>
>Here is to the FREE market of ideas.
>
>We will be giving out research in all areas of bio-diesel production.
>
>Bio-Diesel is an infant in the arena of fuels. Killing the baby will
>not do any of us a favor.
>
>Greg



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[biofuel] Re: Fuel from Pine roots?

[look4bryan]

> Possibly, but I doubt it.  Where did you read that?

Not sure where I read it, prolly chased it down after following
various links off of journeytoforever.org or ww2.green-trust.org.  The
article was something to do with US combatants capturing a Japanese
base on an island somewhere and being surprised when the checked the
aviation fuel drums for fuel and finding out they contained alcohol,
not gasoline.  Hiding saki maybe? ;-)

 
> But, as they say, history is written by the victors.

Absolutely true.  One of my favorite sayings.

So, having not found the link I went searching for, I did find this
link about generating gasoline of a sort (benzene, large component of
gasoline, right?) from balsam tree resin:

http://www.careerchem.com/3070/H17-Industrial-Feedstocks4.pdf  

Lots of alcohol components listed in that document...

Bryan



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[biofuel] Re: Plastic PVC & biodiesel

[Thor Skov]

Tom -

I encourage you to consider an alternative to PVC,
since it is such an environmentally destructive
material and production prcess.  Remember, the
"cheapness" of PVC is just a cost borne by society at
large, as it is with "cheap" petroleum.

Have you considered using industrial grade PEX or
HDPE(High-Density Polyethylene) tubing?  If you think
that PVC is easy to work with, try this stuff.

Honestly, I don't know if it would meet the specs for
biodiesel production, but the product on the link
below works for the petroleum industry.  If you look
around, I'm sure you can find a number of producers
making similar PEX or HDPE products for industrial
applications.

http://www.solvay-polyolefins-europe.com/document/pdf/Eltex/Crosslink.pdf

Here's another producer:
http://www.padanaplast.com/product/byprocessingtechniques/specificprocesstech/0,6794,1371-2-0,00.htm

good luck!

thor skov

---
Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:53:59 EST
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Plastic PVC & biodiesel

Please clarify, if possible: rumor says that PVC pipe
is incompatible with biodiesel. After 4+ years of
operation, I saw no deterioration in the methoxide 
line that had PVC with solvent welded joints. The
threaded joints did weep methoxide, and had to be
replaced, but the straight sections were OK. 
Questions- does PVC work less well with WVO, biodiesel
or methoxide?   
Would Schedule 80 PVC fail to serve? In building our
new refinery, PVC would be far cheaper and more
flexible than iron piping.

I couldn't see this at 
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics

Tom Leue


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Re: [biofuel] Webiste down??

[Keith Addison]

>I cant hit the web site on a link from a posting today?  Anybody 
>else or is it just a local thing?  Still up?  Virus attack?  "The 
>MAN" shuttin us down?!
>
>- Paul

Both JtF and the NNYtech archives are down at the moment, tech 
problems, not the MAN, LOL! I believe Martin's working on it, I'm 
sure it'll be back soon.

Best

Keith


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Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith

[Keith Addison]

Yes Greg, that's all very well, except that it's not, and except that 
you didn't answer the questions, and snipped the "Great letter" 
you're responding to (so I'll put it back, below). All of which 
rather persuades me that Bryan might be right about snake-oil. That's 
how the free energy scammers behave.

>I agree with some of your assumptions.

I didn't make any assumptions, I asked some questions and made some comments.

>However when it comes to
>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.

There's no need to apologise for any of those. You don't know much 
about this list, do you? Maybe you'd find this discussion 
interesting. Or maybe not.

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/

>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".

You don't say. Now you're making assumptions, (a) about my standard 
of living, (b) that I give half a damn about it anyway, and (c) that 
I've never thought about it, and you're wrong on all counts. And 
you've completely missed the point, which is a rather crucial one. I 
suggest you try again.

>Yes, there are a number
>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.

You've got a market in Nebraska for a plant that size? Or are you 
planning to truck the product all over the place? You're planning to 
waste a whole lot more petro-diesel fuel doing that? Or, worse, waste 
biodiesel doing it? And yet manage to deliver a "cheaper" product. 
Hm. Have you thought any of this out at all?

>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
>3% of that market.

Did you even read my "Great letter"? You sure didn't hoist much of it aboard.

>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
>me, it takes more time and energy than most think)

Sigh... I don't think so.

>then we as a
>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
>want to try.

Homebrewers are very aware of safety issues and how to deal with them.

Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to? 
"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?

>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
>possible economically.

And landfills. And out of the livestock feed as well. I think you 
equate "economically" with a big, centralised industry, in which case 
no, it isn't possible. Only about 10% of WVO is accounted for in the 
US (about the same as other industrialised countries). Waste 
recycling, of just about anything, doesn't work well unless it's 
decentralised, the more it's decentralised, the closer it gets to 
source, the better it works. This is one of many advantages 
local-niche production has over centralised production.

>Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
>into building direct oil engines.

What's a direct oil engine? You mean an SVO or multifuel engine? 
Elsbett built one (see archives), it was the basis of all modern DI 
diesels. It says this at our website, among quite a lot of other 
things:

"... in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are 
likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be 
heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, 
that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, 
supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, 
biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any 
fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and 
switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system 
does that."
-- From: The TDI-SVO controversy
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html

>This all takes money to make it happen,

Questionable, there are other ways, and they're probably better ways. 
A list member posted this here a while back:

"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is. 
Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, 
tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent 
on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information 
exchange - it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the 
planet fries."

>and the idea of having a
>commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer
>and renewable energy helps Americans.  It will help Ameicans because
>of a cheaper fuel is available.

Americans don't need cheaper fuel, Americans need MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE 
fuel, everybody except Americans says so, including the OECD, and in 
fact including many of the Americans here on this list. $5 a gallon, 
at t

[biofuel] Re: Fuel from Pine roots?

[Keith Addison]

> > Possibly, but I doubt it.  Where did you read that?
>
>Not sure where I read it, prolly chased it down after following
>various links off of journeytoforever.org or ww2.green-trust.org.  The
>article was something to do with US combatants capturing a Japanese
>base on an island somewhere and being surprised when the checked the
>aviation fuel drums for fuel and finding out they contained alcohol,
>not gasoline.  Hiding saki maybe? ;-)
>
>
> > But, as they say, history is written by the victors.
>
>Absolutely true.  One of my favorite sayings.
>
>So, having not found the link I went searching for, I did find this
>link about generating gasoline of a sort (benzene, large component of
>gasoline, right?) from balsam tree resin:
>
>http://www.careerchem.com/3070/H17-Industrial-Feedstocks4.pdf
>
>Lots of alcohol components listed in that document...
>
>Bryan

Hi Bryan and all

There's nothing about it at Journey to Forever, though maybe one of 
the links might take you there. I haven't seen that particular story, 
but it's common knowledge in Japan - WWII warplanes ran on alcohol 
derived from pine tree roots. Finding out the details is not so easy 
however, but I'll try.

Regarding this:

> > Recall that one of the reasons they went to
> > war was because the US cut them off (in their view, I'm not a
> > historian) from oil supplies in Indonesia,
>
>It was partially the Americans, but we were only a small part.  All of
>the western colonial powers were monopolizing the raw materials in the
>area.  The Japanese opinion at the time, as I understand it, was that
>the western colonial powers were collectively strangling Japan's economy
>by charging high prices for the raw materials that they controlled.  The
>English, French, and Dutch all had equal, if not larger, parts to the US
>in the area.
>
>There is a certain case to be made for the Japanese viewpoint at the
>beginning of the Second World War.  But, as they say, history is written
>by the victors.

I don't think the Americans were only a small part of it. It's 
complex of course, and I think you have to go back another 70 or 80 
years to understand it fully (I don't, not fully). Anyway, I found 
what seems like a good ref to it at the site Ramjee just referred to 
("Oil Age Eskimos"):

"... This book aims to show that half a century before Desert Storm, 
the United States fought another, much costlier war for strategic 
resources. The United States' war with Japan from 1941 to 1945 was 
primarily a battle for control of Southeast Asia's immense mineral 
and vegetable wealth. The region, comprising Burma, British Malaya, 
French Indochina, the Netherlands East Indies, the Philippines, and 
Thailand, held rich supplies of rubber, tin, tungsten, and other 
tropical commodities essential to the economies of the advanced 
industrial nations. Japan sought to end Western dominance of Asia and 
build a self-sufficient economy by integrating these lands into its 
own bloc, isolating the United States and Great Britain from their 
primary sources of these products. Defending a status quo that 
favored the Western liberal powers, the United States drew the line 
for Japanese expansion at Southeast Asia.

"U.S. economic stakes in the region had been growing for years. By 
1939, the United States was importing more goods from the Far East 
than from any other part of the world. The region's share of total 
U.S. imports soared to 30 percent from only 13 percent in 1910.[4] By 
far the most important source of those imports was Southeast Asia. 
Three colonies alone-British Malaya, the Netherlands East Indies, and 
the Philip-pines-shipped more than half a billion dollars' worth of 
goods to the United States in 1940, accounting for roughly a fifth of 
all U.S. purchases abroad.[5]

"Southeast Asia was an inexhaustible source of mineral and vegetable 
products for U.S. industry. The United States bought most of its 
rubber and tin from British Malaya.[6] As for the Netherlands East 
Indies, one contemporary observer declared that it "constitutes the 
richest colonial plum in the world. It produces rubber, tin, 
petroleum, sugar, coffee, tin, tobacco, copra, palm oil, and a host 
of other products, agricultural and mineral."[7] By 1939, the Dutch 
colony supplied more than half of the United States' needs for no 
fewer than fifteen distinct commodities, including nutmeg, pepper, 
and palm oil, besides exporting large quantities of rubber, tin, oil, 
and bauxite.[8]

"But simple trade figures do not begin to tell the whole story of 
U.S. economic dependence upon Southeast Asia..."

-- From: Preface, To Have and Have Not - Southeast Asian Raw 
Materials and the Origins of the Pacific War, Jonathan Marshall, 
Berkeley: University of California Press, 1995. (Full text online)
http://texts.cdlib.org/dynaxml/servlet/dynaXML?docId=ft4489n8wm&chunk.id=d0e30

Ain't nothing new about resource wars. Not exactly out of date 
either, sad to say.

Best

Keith


 



Biofuel at Journe

[biofuel] Question from a newbie

[Ted Dinkelman]

Greetings,
 
  I have been a member of your group for a little while now. The amount of 
information is incredable. It has my mind working on ways I can conserve energy 
and generate my own heat/electricity. Thanks to all.
  I have a question. I have a portable kerosine heater I use in my garage for 
heat when I am working there. Could I use SVO or WVO in it without ruining it? 
Has anyone tried? 
  
Thanks again,
Ted
 
P.S. the website is down for me to.


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Website's back again - Re: [biofuel] Webiste down??

[Keith Addison]

And the archives too.

Thanks Martin!

Sorry for hassles, all.

regards

Keith
Journey to Forever


> >I cant hit the web site on a link from a posting today?  Anybody
> >else or is it just a local thing?  Still up?  Virus attack?  "The
> >MAN" shuttin us down?!
> >
> >- Paul
>
>Both JtF and the NNYtech archives are down at the moment, tech
>problems, not the MAN, LOL! I believe Martin's working on it, I'm
>sure it'll be back soon.
>
>Best
>
>Keith


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[biofuel] Solar Power in China?

[Ryan Morgan, Aerials Express]

Hello all,

Lately I've been hearing rumors of some advanced solar power units being
manufactured inexpensively in China.  Does anyone know of an article or a
genuine research source on this?

Thanks in advance,

Ryan


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[biofuel] Fwd: DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement

[Keith Addison]

>From: "Ryan Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement
>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:54:04 -0500
>
>EMS Update - Jan. 29, 2004
>
>
>DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement
>The Department of Energy today announced by federal register notice 
>that it "is not adopting a regulatory requirement that owners and 
>operators of certain private and local government fleets acquire 
>alternative fueled vehicles."  The requirement was originally 
>intended to help meet the goals of the Energy Policy Act of 1992 
>(EPAct) to reduce dependency on petroleum products.  Some state and 
>federal fleets are already subject to a similar requirement as part 
>of EPAct.
>
>Today's announcement disappointed environmental groups and local 
>government officials that have already made alternative fuel vehicle 
>purchases.  In some cases, local governments were hoping the 
>requirement would help drive down prices for fuels they now depend 
>on to power their vehicles.
>
>The private and local fleet requirement would have applied to 
>certain fleets of 50 or more centrally fueled light-duty vehicles.
>
>Federal register notice:
>http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=40431 
>019310+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
>
>Background:
>http://www.republicons.org/view_article.asp?RP_ARTICLE_ID=1177
>
>
>- 
>-- 
>
>EMS updates provide news tips and resources for journalists. You 
>received this email because you signed up
>at our website, http://www.ems.org. Please forward this email to 
>your colleagues.


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Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith

[J. Curtis Cheney, VII]

Greg,
 
I agree with you.  There does seem to be two camps here.  The backyarders and 
those who seek to make biodiesel production a profitable venture.  Seeking a 
profit does not make a person evil.  Enviromentalism and profits can happen 
within the same venture.  Think about it.
 
J. Curtis Cheney, VII

mymommyathome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I agree with some of your assumptions.  However when it comes to 
capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.

If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would 
be much lower if we did not "mass produce".  Yes, there are a number 
of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.

The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are 
sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take 
3% of that market.

What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to 
those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe 
me, it takes more time and energy than most think) then we as a 
company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best 
marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who 
want to try. 

I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is 
possible economically.  Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look 
into building direct oil engines.

This all takes money to make it happen, and the idea of having a 
commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer 
and renewable energy helps Americans.  It will help Ameicans because 
of a cheaper fuel is available.  It will help Americans because 
there will be a job created.

And yes, we will help small suppliers get up and running.  But what 
about the family that has no plot of land, no way to make their own 
fuel, where do they get it if it is all locally made?

Keith there is plenty of users of bio-diesel that will not and 
cannot make their own fuel to make our plant run at 100% capacity.

Here is to the FREE market of ideas. 

We will be giving out research in all areas of bio-diesel production.

Bio-Diesel is an infant in the arena of fuels. Killing the baby will 
not do any of us a favor.

Greg




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Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith

[Keith Addison]

>Greg,
>
>I agree with you.  There does seem to be two camps here.  The 
>backyarders and those who seek to make biodiesel production a 
>profitable venture.  Seeking a profit does not make a person evil. 
>Enviromentalism and profits can happen within the same venture. 
>Think about it.

We have thought about it, Curtis, a lot, and it's not nearly as 
simplistic as you make out. There was a recent discussion here about 
just this, not the first, but it ALWAYS starts with people jumping to 
the simplistic conclusion that one "side" is somehow saying that 
making a profit is "evil", just like you just did, and just like Greg 
did too, although there was absolutely nothing said or implied to 
give that idea in my reply to Greg. Check it out, if you don't 
believe me, you've both jumped to conclusions because of your own 
expectations, not because of what was said or because there are "two 
camps here".

As I did with Greg, I'll refer you to that recent discussion, 
although I previously referred Biofuels-biz members to it too, and 
that's where you've just come from. Please read it, it'll tell you a 
lot. You're not telling us anything we don't know - and DO - when you 
say that environmentalism and profits can happen within the same 
venture.

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/

So you think about it.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever



>J. Curtis Cheney, VII
>
>mymommyathome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I agree with some of your assumptions.  However when it comes to
>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.
>
>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".  Yes, there are a number
>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.
>
>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
>3% of that market.
>
>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
>me, it takes more time and energy than most think) then we as a
>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
>want to try.
>
>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
>possible economically.  Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
>into building direct oil engines.
>
>This all takes money to make it happen, and the idea of having a
>commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer
>and renewable energy helps Americans.  It will help Ameicans because
>of a cheaper fuel is available.  It will help Americans because
>there will be a job created.
>
>And yes, we will help small suppliers get up and running.  But what
>about the family that has no plot of land, no way to make their own
>fuel, where do they get it if it is all locally made?
>
>Keith there is plenty of users of bio-diesel that will not and
>cannot make their own fuel to make our plant run at 100% capacity.
>
>Here is to the FREE market of ideas.
>
>We will be giving out research in all areas of bio-diesel production.
>
>Bio-Diesel is an infant in the arena of fuels. Killing the baby will
>not do any of us a favor.
>
>Greg


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[biofuel] Discussion of Valdez Spill Costs... to Fishermen, Others

[murdoch]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58311-2004Jan28_2.html

>Some of those injured by the Valdez grounding included salmon fishermen. The 
>salmon run of 1989 was completely wiped out by the spill, and only now are the 
>numbers coming back to pre-Valdez levels, according to Steve Tvenstrup, 
>president of the United Cook Inlet Drift Association, a group of some 230 
>salmon fishermen. 
>
>Tvenstrup said he was elated by yesterday's decision in a case that's taken 
>much longer to resolve than he originally expected. Many of the association's 
>members, Tvenstrup said, have passed away since the original jury ruling in 
>1994. 

My view:

There's something wrong with our legal system and our claim that
property rights are in any way protected, if a party can wipe out,
from the face of the earth, someone's business hopes and dreams, and
then delay payment and compensation to them for fifteen years.  I can
only imagine what would happen to a business if they wiped out
billions' of Exxon's assets and revenues, by some slip of a boat.



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[biofuel] Re: Fwd: DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement

[Robert Del Bueno]

Wow. This could be a major blow.
Does anyone know if this what AFV/alt fuel legislation from EPAct is 
still intact?





--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: "Ryan Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement
> >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:54:04 -0500
> >
> >EMS Update - Jan. 29, 2004
> >
> >
> >DOE Cancels Alternative Fuel Vehicle Requirement
> >The Department of Energy today announced by federal register 
notice 
> >that it "is not adopting a regulatory requirement that owners and 
> >operators of certain private and local government fleets acquire 
> >alternative fueled vehicles."  The requirement was originally 
> >intended to help meet the goals of the Energy Policy Act of 1992 
> >(EPAct) to reduce dependency on petroleum products.  Some state 
and 
> >federal fleets are already subject to a similar requirement as 
part 
> >of EPAct.
> >



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Re: [biofuel] I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[Appal Energy]

This is interesting. Hope you don't mind if I 
troubleshoot a few of your
thought
processes.

1) $3 million dollars? Are you aware of how much production volume that
equates to? Are you also aware that such a centralized plant poses enormous
waste in natural, economical and social resources in comparison to
bioregional plants?

2) Exactly what experience do you have in biodiesel production that gives
warrant for anyone to place their cash at your disposal?

3) What do you propose to be the size of the fuel "allotment" to compensate
the 3,000 investors?

4) Biodiesel is already an economic reality. One has to ask if what you're
looking for is a group to make your economics a reality, not biodiesel an
economic reality.

5) Why do you have to wait until you're "up and running" before you make
small plant design and construction available elsewhere? The two are not
dependant upon each other. You should be able to achieve the latter with as
little as $100,000 - far less if the first plants are modestly sized at 500
gpd. But there still remains the matter of your qualifications.

6) Everyone already has the opportunity to make their own biodiesel and use
it. How is it that your presence is going to make reality more real?

7) Once you reach 2,000 investors you will make a decision? Don't you think
that your decision making had better be in order before you accept the first
dollar from an investor? 2,000 people are supposed to fork over their cash
and then you'll make up your mind?

There are a dozen other points and probably many others that will come to
bear as you start to elaborate. But right off hand? You might want to give
some serious consideration to building a cooperative plant for $20,000 or
less and produce a regimen and standard before you start thinking about
toying with $3 million in OPM.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "mymommyathome" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: [biofuel] I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA


>
>
>
> If you really want to make biodiesel a household item, think about
> investing in its commercial production.
>
> It is simple a commercial plant cost 3 Million.  I need only 3,000
> investors who want to invest $1000 dollars.
>
> Here is how you make a return.  For every $1000 dollars you invest
> you will get an allotment of gallons of biodiesel every year at less
> than market price (to be determined) you can either take delivery of
> the biodiesel or sell your allotment and we will send you a check.
>
> We need as a group make it economically feasible for biodiesel to
> become a reality.
>
> Once we are up and running we will be developing small production
> units available to everyone who wants to buy one.  We also will come
> to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home
> production unit for safety reasons.
>
> We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and
> use it!
>
> If you are interested to invest send me an email at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] no obligation to invest.  Once we
> reach 2,000 investors then we will send you a email asking for a
> decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Walburn
> founder
> Biodiesel of America Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
>
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Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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