Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[Ken Richardson]

I agree with Paddy

I live 35-40 miles from a  (Walmart) town in 3 directions 
Athens,Zanesville and Marietta.

We do go every month and get a load of supplies

But home is deep in the hills away from all and everything.

now I ve got a VW TDI that gets 50mpg and you learn how to  get by with 
home based ideas and old fashioned work

Ken
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RE: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Mickey *B**]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:23:31 EST


> ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?
>


2 or 3 years ago, I was passed by an automobile that had stickers all over 
it claiming to be Magnet Power.  I did not get the website that it had, but 
I have been mildly interested in that for a while.  Does anybody know about 
such a car as that?


Mick

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Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[Marylynn Schmidt]

adventure series.

A young boy sets out to save his parents aided by cats/felines of all shapes 
and sizes .. his parents, great herbalist, have been kidnapped by some 
pharma corp and is being held and drugged so they cooperate and give them 
some great herbal healing formula.


This whole thing takes place after the collapse of suburbia .. people take 
bicycles, steam paddle boats, steam trains .. etc.


I don't have the authors name .. but if you are interested in furthur 
information (books for your children to read), Town Book Store in Clinton, 
New Jersey is where I purchased the 1st of the series.


A reasonably good children's adventure set with that important "side" story.

Mary Lynn
Mary Lynn Schmidt
ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART
TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained 
Minister .
Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . 
Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel

The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/





From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:00:52 -0800

on 2/24/05 8:18 AM, R Del Bueno at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> There is a great film out now called "The End of Suburbia ..
> Oil depletion and the collapse of the American Dream"
>
> http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
>
> Matthew Simmons is featured in the film quite a bit.
> Everyone should see this film.
>
>

I ordered it from Post Carbon Institute and have been showing it
around for a couple weeks now. It's a bit timid, and it seems to
put a lot of emphasis on "new urbanism" as a comfortable alterna-
tive to the energy-intensive suburban model. Personally I favor
a more "rural lifeboat" approach. I wonder how our non-U.S. members
see this issue -- if you lived in the suburbs of a huge city, say,
20 km outside Paris or Berlin, gasoline was 10X today's price, and
the city was suffering from food shortages, infrastucture breakdown,
daily power outages, etc., would you try to:

a) move in closer,

b) stay where you are, or

c) get further out?

-K

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Re: [Biofuel] global warming 101

[Rick Littrell]

I have no doubt about global warming only about the sources of the 
warming.   I was fascinated by your "primer" and have a question.   
Please forgive if this is a stupid question.  You said the energy 
absorbed must equal the energy radiated out into space.   What about the 
energy that is used to drive the activity on the planet;  the mechanical 
energy in the wind,  chemical reactions the atmosphere and oceans and in 
biological activity,  etc.   Is this subtracted from what you expect to 
find radiated back out into space or is it just a negligible amount 
compared to the total energy flux from the sun.  Feel free to tell me to 
go read a book  if this is a simple minded question but please suggest a 
title.


Thanks  for your  help,

Rick

bob allen wrote:

There are those on this list that have questioned the reality of 
global warming, so lets begin at the beginning with a discussion of 
the phenomena:


The amount of energy absorbed by the planet must equal the amount 
radiated out to space. So we should be able to determine the 
temperature of the planet from first principles.


The sun radiates about 10 exp 34 joules per year.  The earth receives 
1370 watts per square meter.



To calculate the total absorbed energy which must be equal to the 
total radiated, we need to account for the fact that the energy 
received is over an area equal to the crossectional area of the earth, 
but that radiated is the total surface area. Also a = 0.3 of the 
incident energy is reflected (albedo)


hence S = (1-a)So/4 = 240 watts per square meter


Employing the The Stefen-Boltzman law that says that a body radiates 
energy proportional to the fourth power of its absolute temperature we 
have


  S = kT exp 4  where k = 5.67 x 10 exp -8 watts/square meter x k exp 4


Plug it all in and the calculated surface temperature of the earth is 
255 kelvins, or -18 degrees Celsius! In fact the surface of the earth 
is about +15 degrees Celcius, so the calculation is off by about 33 
degrees.



Why?  The greenhouse effect of the atmosphere.  The combined effect of 
the water vapor, CO2, and other radiatively forcing gasses provide a 
"blanket" that maintains the temperature about 33 degrees above what 
it would be with out the atmosphere.



Now guess what happens when we increase the concentration of those 
greenhouse gasses?



---
"Just the facts Ma'am"
Joe Friday from Dragnet ca. 1970
-

--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--

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Re: [Biofuel] affordable methanol in uk

[philip reid]

Hi,
Try albion Chemicals,
Approx £90 per 205L drum
--- JD2005 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Chris Bennet,
> 
> Thank you for getting back to me.I'm trying to
> look into ways of turning
> wvo into biofuel but havn't been able to get started
> due to severe problems
> getting methanol.I've even applied for a license
> to use denatured
> ethanol and industrial meths in case I could get any
> of these to work.
> 
> Utimately, I'm hoping to get off the grid and the
> gas.   Well more off them
> than I am already by means of a diesel generator.  
> I've found a company in
> the uk who are looking into   importing low rev
> diesel generators (water
> cooled)  that can run on biofuel and svo etc without
> adaptation.   See
> www.utterpower.com
> 
> Also,
> 
> www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html
> 
> I havn't had time to look at these properly yet.
> 
> 
> JD2005
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Bennett
> > JD2005 wrote:
> >
> > >Hi;
> > >
> > >Is there anybody on this list who knows where to
> purchase methanol for a
> > >reasonable price in the uk, england?
> > >
> > >
> > >JD2005
> > >
> > >
> > >___
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> > >
> > >Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > I used a company called 'Almetron' in Wrexham.
> They charged about £14
> > per 25litre drum plus vat.
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> 


=





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Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[R Del Bueno]

The film is not predicting "die-off", it is predicting/describing  a 
probable coming change.



Are they starving? No. This has been going on for quite a while now, but 
nobody seems to have noticed. Or very few anyway. So much for "die-off" 
at the end of Big Oil.



As I assume (yikes! ..pardon) most of us agree, long over due changes such 
as organic farming, and resource conservation will simply become unavoidable.


I guess another reason I like the film is simply because it exists at all. 
While it may not address every aspect, consequence, or possibility, this is 
the first film I have come across that even breeches the issue, and really 
questions the sustainability of suburban America.


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[Biofuel] Fuel strainer

[TLC Orchids and Such]

I was having a problem with my fuel system(f250 6.9L).
Stalling, loss of power, white smoke and stall when I mashed the fuel pedal 
ect. So I started at the the tank and worked my way up. 
(by the way I havn't started using BD yet, it's in the wash tank) 

I droped the tank, The first thing I noticed was the lack of a fuel strainer. 
There were a few pieces of  ruber\plastic, a screen and some remnant of some 
sort of diaphragm. I started checking auto parts stores with no luck.
The dealer only carries the sending unit with the fuel strainer $138.99 of 
course I had them order the part right away (to inspect the construction of the 
fuel strainer I.E. what the strainer looked like before it fell apart and got 
sucked into my fuel line). It arived the next morning. I removed it from the 
box, made some measurements and went to Walmart (housewares). I found a 
Stainless steel funnel $3.50, Then to Home Depot (plumbing) 3/8-3/8 compression 
fitting $3.00. I pulled out my angle grinder, cut off the neck, then I took one 
of the compression nuts and ground past the flair (making it a threaded sleeve) 
I put the fitting through and tightened it down. 

It still wasn't a strainer yet so back to walmart.
I found a steel stationary holder $2.38, chopped it up, wrapped it around the 
funnel tightened the other end of the compression fitting to the fuel line and 
dropped it in the tank.

Stainless steel funnel $3.50 
3/8-3/8 compression fitting $3.00
steel stationary holder $2.38
 Total $8.88
Not having to pay the dealer $138.99 for a part I didn't need  - priceless


Jeremy


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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel strainer

[Anti-Fossil]

And to think they're fighting to keep Wal-mart out of N.Y. ?  How on earth
are we going to fix our trucks?
Nice job Jeremy!

AntiFossil
Mike Krafka  USA


- Original Message - 
From: "TLC Orchids and Such" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 9:35 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Fuel strainer


> I was having a problem with my fuel system(f250 6.9L).
> Stalling, loss of power, white smoke and stall when I mashed the fuel
pedal ect. So I started at the the tank and worked my way up.
> (by the way I havn't started using BD yet, it's in the wash tank)
>
> I droped the tank, The first thing I noticed was the lack of a fuel
strainer. There were a few pieces of  ruber\plastic, a screen and some
remnant of some sort of diaphragm. I started checking auto parts stores with
no luck.
> The dealer only carries the sending unit with the fuel strainer $138.99 of
course I had them order the part right away (to inspect the construction of
the fuel strainer I.E. what the strainer looked like before it fell apart
and got sucked into my fuel line). It arived the next morning. I removed it
from the box, made some measurements and went to Walmart (housewares). I
found a Stainless steel funnel $3.50, Then to Home Depot (plumbing) 3/8-3/8
compression fitting $3.00. I pulled out my angle grinder, cut off the neck,
then I took one of the compression nuts and ground past the flair (making it
a threaded sleeve) I put the fitting through and tightened it down.
>
> It still wasn't a strainer yet so back to walmart.
> I found a steel stationary holder $2.38, chopped it up, wrapped it around
the funnel tightened the other end of the compression fitting to the fuel
line and dropped it in the tank.
>
> Stainless steel funnel $3.50
> 3/8-3/8 compression fitting $3.00
> steel stationary holder $2.38
>  Total $8.88
> Not having to pay the dealer $138.99 for a part I didn't need  - priceless
>
>
> Jeremy
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] global warming 101

[Ashley Daminato]

--- Rick Littrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

'clip'

> What about
> the 
> energy that is used to drive the activity on the planet;  the
> mechanical 
> energy in the wind,  chemical reactions the atmosphere and oceans and
> in 
> biological activity,  etc.   Is this subtracted from what you expect
> to 

These activities all eventually convert the energy to heat which would
end up being radiated.  

> find radiated back out into space or is it just a negligible amount 
> compared to the total energy flux from the sun.  

'clip'

> Rick
> 
> bob allen wrote:
> 
'clip'

> > Why?  The greenhouse effect of the atmosphere.  The combined effect
> of 
> > the water vapor, CO2, and other radiatively forcing gasses provide
> a 
> > "blanket" that maintains the temperature about 33 degrees above
> what 
> > it would be with out the atmosphere.
> >

I assume there would also be some surface heating from heat transfer
from the molten core.


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Re: [Biofuel] global warming 101

[bob allen]

geothermal, and tidal, all energy is solar, directly or indirectly.  The 
heat generated when I pace about a classroom is solar derived. 
sunlight--> photosynthesis---> plant matter---> food--->bob's motion---> 
heat.


Same thing with wind, all biological activity(except those weird 
ecosystems surrounding geothermal vents in the deep oceans),wave motions 
of the seas, hydropower, etc.


Untimely all work degrades to heat, just lower quality. (smaller delta T)

Even the "large" amount of energy from the combustion of fossil fuels is 
trivially small when compared to the solar flux.


so the short answer is yes, that of which you speak is accounted for.


Rick Littrell wrote:

Dear Bob,

I have no doubt about global warming only about the sources of the 
warming.   I was fascinated by your "primer" and have a question.   
Please forgive if this is a stupid question.  You said the energy 
absorbed must equal the energy radiated out into space.   What about the 
energy that is used to drive the activity on the planet;  the mechanical 
energy in the wind,  chemical reactions the atmosphere and oceans and in 
biological activity,  etc.   Is this subtracted from what you expect to 
find radiated back out into space or is it just a negligible amount 
compared to the total energy flux from the sun.  Feel free to tell me to 
go read a book  if this is a simple minded question but please suggest a 
title.


Thanks  for your  help,

Rick

bob allen wrote:

There are those on this list that have questioned the reality of 
global warming, so lets begin at the beginning with a discussion of 
the phenomena:


The amount of energy absorbed by the planet must equal the amount 
radiated out to space. So we should be able to determine the 
temperature of the planet from first principles.


The sun radiates about 10 exp 34 joules per year.  The earth receives 
1370 watts per square meter.



To calculate the total absorbed energy which must be equal to the 
total radiated, we need to account for the fact that the energy 
received is over an area equal to the crossectional area of the earth, 
but that radiated is the total surface area. Also a = 0.3 of the 
incident energy is reflected (albedo)


hence S = (1-a)So/4 = 240 watts per square meter


Employing the The Stefen-Boltzman law that says that a body radiates 
energy proportional to the fourth power of its absolute temperature we 
have


  S = kT exp 4  where k = 5.67 x 10 exp -8 watts/square meter x k exp 4


Plug it all in and the calculated surface temperature of the earth is 
255 kelvins, or -18 degrees Celsius! In fact the surface of the earth 
is about +15 degrees Celcius, so the calculation is off by about 33 
degrees.



Why?  The greenhouse effect of the atmosphere.  The combined effect of 
the water vapor, CO2, and other radiatively forcing gasses provide a 
"blanket" that maintains the temperature about 33 degrees above what 
it would be with out the atmosphere.



Now guess what happens when we increase the concentration of those 
greenhouse gasses?



---
"Just the facts Ma'am"
Joe Friday from Dragnet ca. 1970
-



--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--
-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG
 


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Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[Kim & Garth Travis]

I live in the middle of nowhere and yes, we do see this all the time.  No 
one walks anywhere, no bicycles, very few motorcycles.  They drive 25 miles 
to the city daily for whatever, even if they do not work.  Many who live 
here drive 150+ miles a day to work and back.


Me, I go to town once a week, in my Volks TDI.  I did look at getting a 
motorcycle, but the animal feed ect. just doesn't fit.  Eventually we hope 
to lower the amount we are spending off farm, but it takes time and effort 
to build the place, improve the soil and keep everything done.  Being self 
sufficient is really hard to set up.  For example, right now I have to buy 
milk and milk products because my cow is almost 2 weeks overdue to have her 
calf.  I did have some milk in the freezer, but we ran out.  Mother Nature 
makes this lifestyle an art, not a science.  I have read books like 5 acres 
and independence, but they obviously did not have a Jersey cow.


The biggest problem I have found it that local economy is so 
expensive.  They expect you to pay dearly for the privilege of buying 
locally, to the tune of double what I can pay 25 miles away.


Worse than that, the local produce store carries Californian oranges, not 
the Texas or Louisiana oranges that I get a Walmart. [I am in east 
Texas]  We have nothing produced locally that is sold locally.  The high 
gas prices have had little effect on the lifestyle.


Most people who have moved here from the city have no interest in doing for 
themselves.  Less than 10% of the homes have gardens, and this in a place 
where gardening year round is easy.  The reality of today makes it hard to 
believe that any 'new urbanism' is going to be an improvement.


Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 12:51 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
I think the reason the film spoke of "new urbanism" as one possible result 
(not solution) is that a possible trouble with moving further out is that 
unless you can provide all of your own goods/services (which most can 
not), the increased distance will require MORE not less transportation 
(and hence more energy). High density living facilitates a 
reduction/concentration of transportation, and also enables the use of 
higher efficiency transportation methods (mass transit for individuals, 
trains for goods, etc).

_


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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Paddy O'Reilly]

panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day. Based on 
current technology it could convert about 2.6kW (0.33kwH x 8 hours) into 
electrical energy. However a 20 mile journey home could use up this 
energy in the first few miles. Has anybody looked at this scenario - 
where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours 
through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?

You're concerned about the environment, but you need to drive. Which
car will do the least damage? There's no easy answer, and you will
have to make some tradeoffs between your budget and your determination
to help  change the world. But you will also need to think about what
"changing the world" means to you:


 Is it more important to (a) help reduce future emissions an uncertain
amount by investing in advanced technology or (b) reduce immediate
emissions a known amount with existing technology?

 Is it more important to (a) fight climate change and foreign oil
dependence by reducing fossil fuel use or (b) help clean the air in
your region by reducing traditional pollutants from the car tailpipe?


 At ILEA we are all about life-cycle assessment, so we like to take
the big picture approach: advancing technology trumps personal
emissions, and greenhouse gases trump local pollutants.  If you answer
the questions differently, keep those differences in mind as you read
through our recommendations; near the end of the email there's a
comparison table to help you do this.
   
Below are five basic choices you can take, beginning with the most

conventional and ending with the most adventurous.[1] <#_edn1>   We
think the most adventurous steps probably have the most impact on the
big picture, but if you answered the  questions differently than we
do, you may want to take one of the other choices.
   


#5: High-efficiency conventional cars

 If none of the more advanced options meet your needs, then you can
still reduce both your greenhouse gas and your traditional pollutant
emissions by being careful to choose a car with the highest fuel
economy.  Keep in mind though, this option will do little to advance
new technologies.
   


 The U.S. EPA's fuel economy website 
provides comparative ratings of nearly all cars available in the U.S.
The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy publishes the
Green Book  , which provides even more
detailed environmental information.  Though the EPA website is free,
the Green Book is not: a month of access costs $8.95.
   


 Diesel engines are on average more efficient than gasoline engines.
Just as one example,  a manual transmission, 2005 VW Jetta Wagon is
rated 36 city and 47 highway
 .  In the United States
we tend to think of diesel cars as dirty, and indeed historically the
tailpipe emissions have been much worse than for gasoline cars.  But
beginning in mid-2006 all automotive diesel fuel in the U.S. will be
ultra-low sulfur
 , allowing
better emissions control and eliminating nearly all of the irritating
exhaust fumes we normally expect from diesel engines.  That means
beginning in 2007, many diesel vehicles will be preferable to their
gasoline counterparts.  Also, if you choose a diesel vehicle, you will
always be able to leapfrog to the much more aggressive biodiesel
solution, #3 below.



#4: Gasoline-electric hybrids   


 Gasoline-electric hybrids (usually just called "hybrids") have by far
been the most popular choice of environmentally conscientious car
buyers over the past few years.  Hybrids are fueled at the gas pump
just like any other gasoline-powered car, but boast particularly
impressive mileage (the 2005 Toyota Prius does 60 city and 51 highway
 ).[2] <#_edn2>
   


 A hybrid car has both a gasoline engine and an electric motor, but it
does not need to be plugged in.  The gasoline engine takes care of
charging the electric motor's battery.  The battery is also charged
when the driver steps on the brakes: the electric motor works in
reverse to stop the wheels by converting their rotational energy to
electricity saved in the battery.  Hybrids also cut out the gasoline
engine when the car drives very slowly or stops, minimizing energy
wasted in idling.

 Gasoline-electric hybrids are an excellent choice for the
environmentally aware consumer. Because of their high fuel economy,
hybrids reduce both greenhouse gases and traditional pollutants, like
any other high-mileage vehicle.  But buying a hybrid gives the
environment an extra boost because you are helping introduce an
important, cutting-edge technology.  So far, Honda and Toyota have
released hybrid passenger cars, and Ford has released a hybrid SUV.
You can expect to see many more models appear over the coming few
years.
 

Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[Paddy O'Reilly]

farm is purchased at an elevated price just to fool around and the main 
income is through some other area. My father did the reverse - he 
inherited a farm from his father but found the income too low so he 
became a carpenter/builder/undertaker and ended up farming just as a 
hobby, plus he always had pure, un-tainted beef every year so no BSE or 
any muck that comes out of mass-production farming. Unfortunately I 
haven't inherited the farm so I have to start from scratch - got an acre 
and hoping to work up from that. Can you make biodiesel from apples 
'cause I have tons of apple trees. It might smell better than biodiesel 
from vegetable oil!!! There's always cider and calvados (yes, I'm Irish 
and always thinking of drink!!!).


Happy Friday ;oD

Kim & Garth Travis wrote:


Greetings,

I live in the middle of nowhere and yes, we do see this all the time.  
No one walks anywhere, no bicycles, very few motorcycles.  They drive 
25 miles to the city daily for whatever, even if they do not work.  
Many who live here drive 150+ miles a day to work and back.


Me, I go to town once a week, in my Volks TDI.  I did look at getting 
a motorcycle, but the animal feed ect. just doesn't fit.  Eventually 
we hope to lower the amount we are spending off farm, but it takes 
time and effort to build the place, improve the soil and keep 
everything done.  Being self sufficient is really hard to set up.  For 
example, right now I have to buy milk and milk products because my cow 
is almost 2 weeks overdue to have her calf.  I did have some milk in 
the freezer, but we ran out.  Mother Nature makes this lifestyle an 
art, not a science.  I have read books like 5 acres and independence, 
but they obviously did not have a Jersey cow.


The biggest problem I have found it that local economy is so 
expensive.  They expect you to pay dearly for the privilege of buying 
locally, to the tune of double what I can pay 25 miles away.


Worse than that, the local produce store carries Californian oranges, 
not the Texas or Louisiana oranges that I get a Walmart. [I am in east 
Texas]  We have nothing produced locally that is sold locally.  The 
high gas prices have had little effect on the lifestyle.


Most people who have moved here from the city have no interest in 
doing for themselves.  Less than 10% of the homes have gardens, and 
this in a place where gardening year round is easy.  The reality of 
today makes it hard to believe that any 'new urbanism' is going to be 
an improvement.


Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 12:51 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:

I think the reason the film spoke of "new urbanism" as one possible 
result (not solution) is that a possible trouble with moving further 
out is that unless you can provide all of your own goods/services 
(which most can not), the increased distance will require MORE not 
less transportation (and hence more energy). High density living 
facilitates a reduction/concentration of transportation, and also 
enables the use of higher efficiency transportation methods (mass 
transit for individuals, trains for goods, etc).

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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[bob allen]

energy could be captured if the whole parking space is paneled?  the 
spaces in front of my building are 9X18 ft or 162 feet each. or about 15 
meters squared.





Paddy O'Reilly wrote:
I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar 
panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day. Based on 
current technology it could convert about 2.6kW (0.33kwH x 8 hours) into 
electrical energy. However a 20 mile journey home could use up this 
energy in the first few miles. Has anybody looked at this scenario - 
where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours 
through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?

You're concerned about the environment, but you need to drive. Which
car will do the least damage? There's no easy answer, and you will
have to make some tradeoffs between your budget and your determination
to help  change the world. But you will also need to think about what
"changing the world" means to you:


 Is it more important to (a) help reduce future emissions an uncertain
amount by investing in advanced technology or (b) reduce immediate
emissions a known amount with existing technology?

 Is it more important to (a) fight climate change and foreign oil
dependence by reducing fossil fuel use or (b) help clean the air in
your region by reducing traditional pollutants from the car tailpipe?


 At ILEA we are all about life-cycle assessment, so we like to take
the big picture approach: advancing technology trumps personal
emissions, and greenhouse gases trump local pollutants.  If you answer
the questions differently, keep those differences in mind as you read
through our recommendations; near the end of the email there's a
comparison table to help you do this.
   Below are five basic choices you can take, beginning with the most
conventional and ending with the most adventurous.[1] <#_edn1>   We
think the most adventurous steps probably have the most impact on the
big picture, but if you answered the  questions differently than we
do, you may want to take one of the other choices.
  
#5: High-efficiency conventional cars


 If none of the more advanced options meet your needs, then you can
still reduce both your greenhouse gas and your traditional pollutant
emissions by being careful to choose a car with the highest fuel
economy.  Keep in mind though, this option will do little to advance
new technologies.
  
 The U.S. EPA's fuel economy website 

provides comparative ratings of nearly all cars available in the U.S.
The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy publishes the
Green Book  , which provides even more
detailed environmental information.  Though the EPA website is free,
the Green Book is not: a month of access costs $8.95.
  
 Diesel engines are on average more efficient than gasoline engines.

Just as one example,  a manual transmission, 2005 VW Jetta Wagon is
rated 36 city and 47 highway
 .  In the United States
we tend to think of diesel cars as dirty, and indeed historically the
tailpipe emissions have been much worse than for gasoline cars.  But
beginning in mid-2006 all automotive diesel fuel in the U.S. will be
ultra-low sulfur
 , allowing
better emissions control and eliminating nearly all of the irritating
exhaust fumes we normally expect from diesel engines.  That means
beginning in 2007, many diesel vehicles will be preferable to their
gasoline counterparts.  Also, if you choose a diesel vehicle, you will
always be able to leapfrog to the much more aggressive biodiesel
solution, #3 below.



#4: Gasoline-electric hybrids  
 Gasoline-electric hybrids (usually just called "hybrids") have by far

been the most popular choice of environmentally conscientious car
buyers over the past few years.  Hybrids are fueled at the gas pump
just like any other gasoline-powered car, but boast particularly
impressive mileage (the 2005 Toyota Prius does 60 city and 51 highway
 ).[2] <#_edn2>
  
 A hybrid car has both a gasoline engine and an electric motor, but it

does not need to be plugged in.  The gasoline engine takes care of
charging the electric motor's battery.  The battery is also charged
when the driver steps on the brakes: the electric motor works in
reverse to stop the wheels by converting their rotational energy to
electricity saved in the battery.  Hybrids also cut out the gasoline
engine when the car drives very slowly or stops, minimizing energy
wasted in idling.

 Gasoline-electric hybrids are an excellent choice for the
environmentally aware consumer. Because of their high fuel economy,
hybrids reduce both greenhouse gases and traditional pollutants, like
any other high-mileage vehicle.  But buying a hybrid gives the
environment an extra boost be

Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Paddy O'Reilly]

with solar cells. Don't know what the purpose of the exercise is but 
anything to bring solar panel into mass production and bring down the 
price is good. I've priced solar panels for my house at 1000 Euros per 
165 watt panel. I figure I'd need 10 of them to get 1kW average in Irish 
climate so the cost is 10k Euros and at an electricity rate of 12 cents 
per kW and an average of 8 hours per day of light, that's about 30 years 
to amortise my investment while the panels are guaranteed for something 
like 10 years and have a working life of 20 - hmm, much as I love this 
planet and all, I need cheaper solar panels to come out on top. Solar 
water heaters are a different matter - but this is a biofuel forum so 
we'd better stick to the topic like using biofuel to fire burners to 
heat the house - but wait, weren't we talking about powering cars.


Apologies, I'm wandering - my brain has indeed reached meltdown - roll 
on the weekend. Maybe the heat from my brain could be used to power a 
Stirling engine to get me home this evening!!!


bob allen wrote:

how about decking over the parking spots with solar panels?  How much 
energy could be captured if the whole parking space is paneled?  the 
spaces in front of my building are 9X18 ft or 162 feet each. or about 
15 meters squared.





Paddy O'Reilly wrote:

I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar 
panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day. Based 
on current technology it could convert about 2.6kW (0.33kwH x 8 
hours) into electrical energy. However a 20 mile journey home could 
use up this energy in the first few miles. Has anybody looked at this 
scenario - where the electric-only car recharges itself during 
daylight hours through the use of solar panels integrated into the 
body panels?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?

You're concerned about the environment, but you need to drive. Which
car will do the least damage? There's no easy answer, and you will
have to make some tradeoffs between your budget and your determination
to help  change the world. But you will also need to think about what
"changing the world" means to you:


 Is it more important to (a) help reduce future emissions an uncertain
amount by investing in advanced technology or (b) reduce immediate
emissions a known amount with existing technology?

 Is it more important to (a) fight climate change and foreign oil
dependence by reducing fossil fuel use or (b) help clean the air in
your region by reducing traditional pollutants from the car tailpipe?


 At ILEA we are all about life-cycle assessment, so we like to take
the big picture approach: advancing technology trumps personal
emissions, and greenhouse gases trump local pollutants.  If you answer
the questions differently, keep those differences in mind as you read
through our recommendations; near the end of the email there's a
comparison table to help you do this.
   Below are five basic choices you can take, beginning with the most
conventional and ending with the most adventurous.[1] <#_edn1>   We
think the most adventurous steps probably have the most impact on the
big picture, but if you answered the  questions differently than we
do, you may want to take one of the other choices.
  #5: High-efficiency conventional cars

 If none of the more advanced options meet your needs, then you can
still reduce both your greenhouse gas and your traditional pollutant
emissions by being careful to choose a car with the highest fuel
economy.  Keep in mind though, this option will do little to advance
new technologies.
   The U.S. EPA's fuel economy website 
provides comparative ratings of nearly all cars available in the U.S.
The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy publishes the
Green Book  , which provides even more
detailed environmental information.  Though the EPA website is free,
the Green Book is not: a month of access costs $8.95.
   Diesel engines are on average more efficient than gasoline engines.
Just as one example,  a manual transmission, 2005 VW Jetta Wagon is
rated 36 city and 47 highway
 .  In the United States
we tend to think of diesel cars as dirty, and indeed historically the
tailpipe emissions have been much worse than for gasoline cars.  But
beginning in mid-2006 all automotive diesel fuel in the U.S. will be
ultra-low sulfur
 , allowing
better emissions control and eliminating nearly all of the irritating
exhaust fumes we normally expect from diesel engines.  That means
beginning in 2007, many diesel vehicles will be preferable to their
gasoline counterparts.  Also, if you choose a diesel vehicle, you will
always be able to leapfrog to the much more aggressive biodiesel
solution, #3 below.



#4: Gasoline-electric hybrids   Gasoline-electric hybrids (usually 
just called "hyb

Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[dwoodard]

The advantage of solar panels on the car is that they could be used first
in small units to trickle-charge the battery and run a ventilating fan
for warm areas. Then for hybrids and electric cars they could be used to
charge the battery or whatever storage device was used. They wouldn't
have to carry the whole load, and solar power would be competing with
heavily taxed gasoline. The size of the panels would increase as
technology advanced and production volumes increased. Over time drag and
weight would decrease. Eventually the solar panels would be able to handle
short distance of say 20-50 miles. Note that 60 miles per Imperial
gallon would mean about 14 to 18 horsepower-hours delivered to the wheels
for a gasoline car, or 10.5 to 13.5 kilowatt-hours per hour; say 3.5 to
4.5 kilowatt-hours for 20 miles. Solar panels on the roof would be most
economic, then on the hood/bonnet and trunk top. The panels might be
attractive now for luxury cars, and would gradually penetrate down through
the price range.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, bob allen wrote:

> how about decking over the parking spots with solar panels?  How much
> energy could be captured if the whole parking space is paneled?  the
> spaces in front of my building are 9X18 ft or 162 feet each. or about 15
> meters squared.
>
>
>
>
> Paddy O'Reilly wrote:
> > I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar
> > panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day. Based on
> > current technology it could convert about 2.6kW (0.33kwH x 8 hours) into
> > electrical energy. However a 20 mile journey home could use up this
> > energy in the first few miles. Has anybody looked at this scenario -
> > where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours
> > through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?

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[Biofuel] Just For Clarity

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo Friends,

This is George Washington's proclamation establishing Thanksgiving Day
in  the  United States. Please note that Washington speaks towards the
end  of  the  proclamation  of  "true  religion"  which I define and I
believed   he  and  all  reasonable  folks  define  as  that  personal
relationship  one  has with what I choose to call ones maker (God) but
others  may  call  something  else  as  in  the case of "humanists" or
"atheists",  such  as  reason,  morals,  virtue,  whatever.  I believe
Washington's definition would be similar to mine but I could be wrong.
Each of us has different understanding and abilities and predilictions
which  is  determined by many different things. It is neither wise nor
advisable  to look down upon, despise or discount the belief system or
lack  of  one  of  another person or culture. It is far better to work
towards  mutual  understanding and cooperation. We are only able to do
and  act  upon  our own understanding. There may be only "one way" but
that  one  way  applies,  as  near  as  I  can  tell, to each of us as
individuals  and  where  differences  appear  in  name  and  form  the
substance may remain the same.

I  and my way are no better than Todd and his way.  They are different
but they work for each of us.  We can only do the best we are able and
ones  best is all we can reasonably ask of each other.  My response to
Allen's  essay  was  not  meant to either uphold or discount the basic
argument  (which  I  happen  to  agree  with in general) but to merely
correct a proposition I knew to have been false.  I would hope that if
I  were  to  make such an error that someone would point it out to me,
and believe me some have at times. :o)

My  interest is in the truth and accuracy not in winning a debate with
Todd  or  being hurtful or resentful. I hope that is understood by the
list members, particularly Todd, as I have a great respect for him and
his abilities.  Truth matters. Words matter. Reason and reasonableness
matter.

Happy Happy,

Gustl

The  proclamation,  reprinted  below  may  be  found  at the following
website:

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/thanksgiving/transcript.html

The Thanksgiving Proclamation
New York, 3 October 1789 


Introduction | The Proclamation | Handwritten Letter | Editorial Apparatus 

[New York, 3 October 1789]

By the President of the United States of America. a Proclamation.

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty  God,  to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and
humbly to implore his protection and favor--and whereas both Houses of
Congress  have  by their joint Committee requested me "to recommend to
the  People  of  the  United  States  a day of public thanksgiving and
prayer  to  be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many
signal  favors  of  Almighty  God  especially  by  affording  them  an
opportunity  peaceably  to  establish  a  form of government for their
safety and happiness."

Now  therefore  I  do  recommend  and  assign Thursday the 26th day of
November  next  to  be  devoted  by  the People of these States to the
service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author
of  all  the good that was, that is, or that will be--That we may then
all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his
kind  care  and  protection  of the People of this Country previous to
their  becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the
favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the
tranquillity,  union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the
peaceable  and  rational  manner,  in  which  we  have been enabled to
establish  constitutions  of  government for our safety and happiness,
and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil
and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have
of  acquiring  and  diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all
the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon
us.

and  also  that  we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers
and  supplications  to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech
him to pardon our national and other transgressions--to enable us all,
whether  in  public  or  private  stations, to perform our several and
relative  duties  properly  and  punctually--to  render  our  national
government  a  blessing  to  all  the  people,  by  constantly being a
Government  of  wise,  just,  and  constitutional laws, discreetly and
faithfully  executed  and  obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns
and  Nations  (especially  such as have shewn kindness onto us) and to
bless  them  with  good government, peace, and concord--To promote the
knowledge  and  practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease
of  science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all

Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Paddy O'Reilly]

Could a diesel hybrid with solar panels could be a marketable product? 
Solar-only is the ultimate clean machine but we're a smidge away from 
that yet.


JD2005 wrote:


- Original Message -
From: Paddy O'Reilly
 


I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar
panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day.
   


Has anybody looked at this scenario -
 


where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours
through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?
   



Is this the one where you use a diesel generator, running biofuel of course,
to keep the batteries topped up?

JD2005


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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Paddy O'Reilly]

Mickey *B** wrote:




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:23:31 EST


> ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?
>



2 or 3 years ago, I was passed by an automobile that had stickers all 
over it claiming to be Magnet Power.  I did not get the website that 
it had, but I have been mildly interested in that for a while.  Does 
anybody know about such a car as that?


Mick

_
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The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential 
and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you 
are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or 
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[Biofuel] Pannirselvam: please get in touch

[Adrian CM Van Deusen]

>Hello Group,
>
>I just entered this list, and reading the archives,
>was very enthused by a post made by Pannirselvam
>last august.
>A short quote from that message:
>"We are open to have colaborations to all who want to make powerful the

>poor to have the fuel and food , not the the large scale  biofuel 
>model."

>That's it! I'm living and working in Bahia, and have a fairly well
>articulated business plan for a BD cooperative that makes use of 
>undervalued crops of the Chapada Diamantina region, interplanting 
>with the BD cash crops and keeping ourselves small by selling our 
>final product to ONLY Eco-Tourism vehicles.
>
>There is alot of ciencia that I'm still needing to make my plan a
>reality. But the local government and people are really hopeful that 
>I can pull it all together.
>
>Please Pannirselvam, if you read this,tell me what you are doing so I
can learn more and share.
>Thanks,
>Adrian Machado
>
>
>   Biofeedback
>Tecnologia ao Servio da Conscincia

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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Michael Redler]

Hey!
 
I've given this some thought too. It can really make the imagination run wild!
 
Solar body panels on your car as standard equipment (you might have to go with 
the Henry Ford color scheme -- "...any color you want, as long as it's black")
 
...or maybe PV paint!!
 
I once thought about mounting solar panels on a long trailer, behind a bicycle 
with an electric motor driving the rear wheel. But, I wondered how many 
pedestrians I'd take out whenever I made a turn. Besides I have to lose about 
20 pounds anyway. ...may as well keep the pedals.
 
Mike   

JD2005 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Paddy O'Reilly
> I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar
> panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day.
Has anybody looked at this scenario -
> where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours
> through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?

Is this the one where you use a diesel generator, running biofuel of course,
to keep the batteries topped up?

JD2005


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[Biofuel] "For the Sake of our Children" or "How the Bush Doctrine of Fascism is Disassembling a Nation"

[Appal Energy]

By Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

EarthLight Magazine #52, Winter 2005

www.earthlight.org/2005/essay52_kennedy_pff.htm



Editor's Introduction:  Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has a passionate desire for a
sustainable future. The economic, the political, and the personal worlds are
all part of this evolving vision. So too, is our spiritual life. Kennedy
views the corporate assault on the environment as "a moral assault on future
generations." And he has worked tirelessly to defend and preserve the common
ecological birthright of our children.

In the 1990s, Kennedy helped lead the fight to turn back the
anti-environmental legislation during the 104th Congress. The New York
Watershed Agreement, which he negotiated on behalf of environmentalists and
New York City watershed consumers, is regarded as an international model in
stakeholder consensus negotiations and sustainable development. Currently,
he acts as Chief Prosecuting Attorney for Riverkeepers, Senior Attorney for
the Natural Resources Defense Council, and is President of the Waterkeeper
Alliance. In addition to work on environmental issues across the continent,
Kennedy has assisted several indigenous tribes in Latin America and Canada
in successfully negotiating treaties protecting traditional homelands.

In this article, the author warns us of the attack underway on our natural
heritage, of the dangers of domination of the government by large
corporations, and of the spiritual implications of our plunder of the Earth.

- K. Lauren de Boer



I have been an environmental advocate for twenty years, and I've been
disciplined during that period about being nonpartisan in my approach to
this issue. The worst thing that can happen to the environment is if it
becomes the province of a single political party. Most of the environmental
leaders in our country agree with me. Five years ago, if you asked the
leaders of the major environmental groups in America, What's the gravest
threat to the global environment?, they would have given you a range of
answers: overpopulation, habitat destruction, global warming. Today, they
will all tell you one thing: it's George W. Bush. This is the worst
environmental president that we have ever had. You simply cannot speak
honestly about the environment in any context today without speaking
critically about this president. If you go to the Natural Resources Defense
Council's web site you will see over 400 major environmental rollbacks that
have been promoted by this administration over the last three and half
years. It is a concerted, deliberate attempt to eviscerate thirty years of
environmental law. It is a stealth attack, one that's been hidden from the
public.



We found, in 2003, a memo from Frank Luntz, the president's pollster, to the
president saying that if you go through with the evisceration of America's
environmental law, you are going to alienate not just Democrats but the
Republican rank and file. Eighty-one percent in both parties want clean air,
they want stronger environmental laws and they want them strictly enforced.
Luntz said that to the president, and he said, if we do this we have to do a
stealth attack. He recommended using Orwellian rhetoric to mask this radical
agenda: They want to destroy the forest, they call it the Healthy Forest
Act, they want to destroy the air they call it the Clear Skies Act. Most
insidiously, they have installed the worst, most irresponsible polluters in
America, and the lobbyists from those companies, as the heads of virtually
all the agencies and sub-secretariats and even Cabinet positions that
regulate or oversee our environment. The head of the Forest Service is a
timber industry lobbyist who is probably the most rapacious timber industry
lobbyist in American history. The head of public lands is a mining industry
lobbyist who believes that public lands are unconstitutional. The head of
the Air Division at the EPA is a utility lobbyist who has represented the
worst polluters in America for twenty years. The head of Superfund is a
woman whose former job was advising companies how to evade Superfund. The
second in command of EPA is a Monsanto lobbyist-these are not exceptions,
these are the rules across the agencies. I think it's a good idea to bring
business people into government, to bring that experience and expertise.
These individuals did not enter government service for the purpose of
promoting the public interest, but in each of these cases, rather to subvert
the very laws that they are now charged with enforcing. We are seeing the
impacts of this already. This year, for the first year on record, the EPA
announced that the dead zone in Lake Erie-you remember Lake Erie was
declared dead prior to Earth Day 1970-is growing. Our water in this country,
according to EPA, is getting dirty for the first time since the Clean Water
Act was passed.



The rollbacks from the Bush administration have affected the lives of
millions and millions of Americans adversely. Consider just one ind

Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Michael Redler]

It would seem to me that if you are talking about combustion/electric hybrids, 
the efficiency of the engine and the fuel you are burning for your hybrid is an 
important decision. In my opinion, the public should not be influenced in a way 
that makes them think that gasoline is the best or only choice for a hybrid 
vehicle. So far, I think I'm preaching to the choir. But, the reason I'm 
bringing this up is that there is a kind of "conventional thinking" that 
gasoline is the best choice for hybrids. This has been my thinking since 
listening to a radio talk show, where a guest began making comparisons between 
Diesel powered vehicles and gasoline/electric hybrids. In my opinion, The 
comparison is a bad one since Diesel engines can, and probably should be used 
in hybrids.
 
In the late 80's, I made a prediction to my classmates in college that the 
first hybrids will be gas turbine/electric with the assumption that turbine 
technology will become more affordable in the future. ...oh well.
 
Mike

Paddy O'Reilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I hadn't considered a biodiesel hybrid but its a viable proposition. 
Could a diesel hybrid with solar panels could be a marketable product? 
Solar-only is the ultimate clean machine but we're a smidge away from 
that yet.

JD2005 wrote:

>- Original Message -
>From: Paddy O'Reilly
> 
>
>>I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar
>>panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day.
>> 
>>
> Has anybody looked at this scenario -
> 
>
>>where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours
>>through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?
>> 
>>
>
>Is this the one where you use a diesel generator, running biofuel of course,
>to keep the batteries topped up?
>
>JD2005
>
>
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> 
>

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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Michael Redler]

"2 or 3 years ago, I was passed by an automobile that had stickers all over it 
claiming to be Magnet Power."
 
Paddy -- I think you might find this interesting (thanks Helen).
http://www.methernitha.com/English/english.htm
 
Mike

Paddy O'Reilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Was it a "babe magnet" (snigger) ;o)

Mickey *B** wrote:

>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:23:31 EST
>>
>>
>> > ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?
>> >
>
>
> 2 or 3 years ago, I was passed by an automobile that had stickers all 
> over it claiming to be Magnet Power. I did not get the website that 
> it had, but I have been mildly interested in that for a while. Does 
> anybody know about such a car as that?
>
> Mick
>
> _
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from 
> McAfee® Security. 
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Re: [Biofuel] global warming 101

[Rick Littrell]

Thanks so much.

Rick

bob allen wrote:

Rick, with the exception of a very small amount of energy derived from 
geothermal, and tidal, all energy is solar, directly or indirectly.  
The heat generated when I pace about a classroom is solar derived. 
sunlight--> photosynthesis---> plant matter---> food--->bob's 
motion---> heat.


Same thing with wind, all biological activity(except those weird 
ecosystems surrounding geothermal vents in the deep oceans),wave 
motions of the seas, hydropower, etc.


Untimely all work degrades to heat, just lower quality. (smaller delta T)

Even the "large" amount of energy from the combustion of fossil fuels 
is trivially small when compared to the solar flux.


so the short answer is yes, that of which you speak is accounted for.


 



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[Biofuel] Number 7 Plastics

[Trevor Churney]

   Hello all,

   I was wondering if the number 7 plastics were alrighto mix the
   NaOH and the menthanol and store it in them. I was also wonderig
   what the heat tolerance of the plastic 55 gal drums.

   thanks

   Trevor


   -- 

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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[bob allen]

sell your farm to invest just yet)

The two conterrotating discs generate an electrostatic charge. One disc 
represents the earth, the other the cloud. Using grid electrodes the 
charges are bound. After that they are collected by non-contacting 
so-called antenna keys and then sorted.




After being initially turned on by hand, the discs rotate by themselves 
according to the electrostatic laws about attraction and repulsion. A 
rectifying diode keeps the cycles in steady state. Otherwise the 
impulses of attraction and repulsion would accumulate and cause the 
discs to run faster and faster. The correct speed is of great importance 
and for optimal power generation the discs have to run quite steady and 
slow.




By means of grid condensers the energy is stored and then uniformly 
discharged, at the same time reducing the high voltage and building up 
power with additional devices. Finally the machine supplies a uniform 
direct current, which varies according to the size of the model. The 
machine furnishes about 3-4kW permanent output, depending on humidity, 
whereby the electric potential ranges from 270 to 320Volt. High humidity 
of the atmosphere prevents the build-up of electric potential. The drier 
the air, the better.




No doubt, through the so far achieved results one main objective has 
been reached, namely to prove that it is possible to use Free Energy. 
Nevertheless the research work is not yet completed.




To the educated physicist many a thing of this machine may seem 
impossible, maybe even crazy. Maybe he is also offended by the 
conceptions used to explain the whole. Only partly we could use the 
concepts of conventional physical terminology to explain and define only 
approximately the functions and properties of the various parts of the 
machine.


---



 
Paddy -- I think you might find this interesting (thanks Helen).

http://www.methernitha.com/English/english.htm
 
Mike


Paddy O'Reilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Was it a "babe magnet" (snigger) ;o)

Mickey *B** wrote:





--
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--
-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG
 


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Re: [Biofuel] global warming 101

[bob allen]

geothermal energy to the planatary energy budget, but I have never seen 
any figures.  I can therefore assume the the contribution of geothermal 
is so small compared to solar the it doesn't show up.



Ashley Daminato wrote:



I assume there would also be some surface heating from heat transfer
from the molten core.


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--
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--
-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG
 


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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[Kirk McLoren]

http://www.solar-electric.com/
Solar panel shortage
There is currently a worldwide panel shortage. With
the combination of very high prices and subsidies in
Europe, increased solar subsidies causing increased
demand in the US, and the shortage of refined Silicon,
there simply is not enough production to supply both
markets. Manufacturers can sell them for more in
Europe, so guess where they send most of them? Our
availability changes almost daily, and some panels
have 3 to 9 month lead times. We have been getting
enough to barely keep up, but we do not have nor can
we get any extras. 

Over the past few month there has been a 10 to 15%
increase in the cost of solar panels. We expect this
situation to continue at least until the end of 2005,
maybe longer. With the new higher prices we expect
demand to slow down some, but not a lot.




--- Paddy O'Reilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The Dutch have lined a considerable stretch of one
> of their motorways 
> with solar cells. Don't know what the purpose of the
> exercise is but 
> anything to bring solar panel into mass production
> and bring down the 
> price is good. I've priced solar panels for my house
> at 1000 Euros per 
> 165 watt panel. I figure I'd need 10 of them to get
> 1kW average in Irish 
> climate so the cost is 10k Euros and at an
> electricity rate of 12 cents 
> per kW and an average of 8 hours per day of light,
> that's about 30 years 
> to amortise my investment while the panels are
> guaranteed for something 
> like 10 years and have a working life of 20 - hmm,
> much as I love this 
> planet and all, I need cheaper solar panels to come
> out on top. Solar 
> water heaters are a different matter - but this is a
> biofuel forum so 
> we'd better stick to the topic like using biofuel to
> fire burners to 
> heat the house - but wait, weren't we talking about
> powering cars.
> 
> Apologies, I'm wandering - my brain has indeed
> reached meltdown - roll 
> on the weekend. Maybe the heat from my brain could
> be used to power a 
> Stirling engine to get me home this evening!!!
> 
> bob allen wrote:
> 
> > how about decking over the parking spots with
> solar panels?  How much 
> > energy could be captured if the whole parking
> space is paneled?  the 
> > spaces in front of my building are 9X18 ft or 162
> feet each. or about 
> > 15 meters squared.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paddy O'Reilly wrote:
> >
> >> I've often thought about a car that would
> re-charge itself by solar 
> >> panels when its sitting outside our offices for
> 8+ hours a day. Based 
> >> on current technology it could convert about
> 2.6kW (0.33kwH x 8 
> >> hours) into electrical energy. However a 20 mile
> journey home could 
> >> use up this energy in the first few miles. Has
> anybody looked at this 
> >> scenario - where the electric-only car recharges
> itself during 
> >> daylight hours through the use of solar panels
> integrated into the 
> >> body panels?
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
>  ILEA Leaf #10: WHAT KIND OF CAR?
> 
>  You're concerned about the environment, but you
> need to drive. Which
>  car will do the least damage? There's no easy
> answer, and you will
>  have to make some tradeoffs between your budget
> and your determination
>  to help  change the world. But you will also
> need to think about what
>  "changing the world" means to you:
> 
> 
>   Is it more important to (a) help reduce future
> emissions an uncertain
>  amount by investing in advanced technology or
> (b) reduce immediate
>  emissions a known amount with existing
> technology?
> 
>   Is it more important to (a) fight climate
> change and foreign oil
>  dependence by reducing fossil fuel use or (b)
> help clean the air in
>  your region by reducing traditional pollutants
> from the car tailpipe?
> 
> 
>   At ILEA we are all about life-cycle
> assessment, so we like to take
>  the big picture approach: advancing technology
> trumps personal
>  emissions, and greenhouse gases trump local
> pollutants.  If you answer
>  the questions differently, keep those
> differences in mind as you read
>  through our recommendations; near the end of
> the email there's a
>  comparison table to help you do this.
> Below are five basic choices you can take,
> beginning with the most
>  conventional and ending with the most
> adventurous.[1] <#_edn1>   We
>  think the most adventurous steps probably have
> the most impact on the
>  big picture, but if you answered the  questions
> differently than we
>  do, you may want to take one of the other
> choices.
>    #5: High-efficiency conventional cars
> 
>   If none of the more advanced options meet your
> needs, then you can
>  still reduce both your greenhouse gas and your
> traditional pollutant
>  emissions by being careful to choose a car with
> the highest fuel
>  economy.  Keep in mind though, this opt

[Biofuel] The Cause of Global Warming

[Kirk McLoren]

 I find it interesting that this probable cause is
never brought up for discussion:
 
 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap041013.html
 


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Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[Keith Addison]

The film is not predicting "die-off", it is predicting/describing  a 
probable coming change.


I wasn't talking about the film, and this below was a quote from a 
previous message:


Are they starving? No. This has been going on for quite a while 
now, but nobody seems to have noticed. Or very few anyway. So much 
for "die-off" at the end of Big Oil.


This time round, it was quoted as part of a comment on another film, 
Yank Tanks, mentioned by Kirk. The whole message is here:

http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006287.html
[Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

I said at the end:

Hm, fancy that - no massive die-off as predicted by the oil addicts 
when cold turkey day finally comes round.


Whether or not "The End of Suburbia" mentions die-off, many other 
people do in connection with "Oil depletion and the collapse of the 
American Dream", including here, recently, and also off-list. It's 
nonsense, as the film "Yank Tanks" apparently indicates, as well as 
what I was saying about food supply in Cuba. As you say, more 
sensible behaviour will simply become unavoidable. Perhaps above all 
else, humans as a species are good at adapting, and adapt we will.


Meanwhile, so many of the people who talk about a massive die-off 
with the end of (cheap) oil are still quibbling about or denying 
global warming, caused mainly by cheap oil (and coal), which really 
does threaten a massive die-off.


Apart from the insurance estimates I posted yesterday (see 
), 
there's this, for instance:



Suffering progress

Rising global temperatures will result in 290 million more cases of 
malaria worldwide


About 2.5 million premature deaths will occur every year in India 
due to air emissions


Asthma, diarrhoea, dengue, cancer, malnutrition will burden public health

Climate change is bad news for global human health.

[more]
CSE- Health Environment Newsletter March-April 2003
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26715/

And much besides.

:-(

Regards

Keith


As I assume (yikes! ..pardon) most of us agree, long over due 
changes such as organic farming, and resource conservation will 
simply become unavoidable.


I guess another reason I like the film is simply because it exists 
at all. While it may not address every aspect, consequence, or 
possibility, this is the first film I have come across that even 
breeches the issue, and really questions the sustainability of 
suburban America.


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Re: [Biofuel] let us all have touch

[Pannir P.V]

  Helo , dear   Adrian ( que bom ver aqui , gente  de nossa terra  Brasil)

  Thank you very much to join in this group

Very glad  your particpation in biofuel group .
Plaese see  

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

 You can see about  some of my biofuel  related   work.
I am Briefly giving here short note  about my work.

After sucessfully  finishing my Phd work in India (IIT D) on
ethanol fuel from   Biomass using  low temperature  etanol sovent 
catalytic process  for seperation  of lignin  and  enzimatic 
hydrolysis  work , I was invited to Brasil by the  BIOD   famous 
person Prof Expedito Parente  who has patent on KEROSENE   and 
ProBIOD  in seveties , I was involved in  the  BIOFUel for the past 20
years  to make biomass fuel reality and prsently working in  UFRN ,
Natal city and RN state.


  Here in this group , I am changing from chemical  and bio chemical  
engineering  into ecological system engineering.

   You are very welcome here. Eventhough Brasil is  big country , only
very few peole from Brasil are here .
 Surely we need to  amke much  people from Brasil  as the bigest
biomass  and biofuel programe of the world  are  with in opur land and
we need to  help the other too follow us  as we have  all passed all
the problems  the other country are facing now regard etanol biofuel .

   We  have small   ecological enegineering design  research team .See
our work here

   www.gpec.cjb.net

 http://biocombustivel.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal

Very soon  here  I am preparing put the  small sumary of my wok on the
 energy from biomass  project related to  dairy  wastes as well 
shrimp production wastes.

   Making fuel from waste is the  subject   I  like very much  and  here  

Plaese feel  here you will learn a lot as  we have so  many biofuel
members from  several countries , all very kind and good peoples

 Vamos trabalhar  juntos , podemos  colaborar  sim 
sd





  




On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:35:06 -0300, Adrian CM Van Deusen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >Hello Group,
> >
> >I just entered this list, and reading the archives,
> >was very enthused by a post made by Pannirselvam
> >last august.
> >A short quote from that message:
> >"We are open to have colaborations to all who want to make powerful the
> 
> >poor to have the fuel and food , not the the large scale  biofuel
> >model."
> 
> >That's it! I'm living and working in Bahia, and have a fairly well
> >articulated business plan for a BD cooperative that makes use of
> >undervalued crops of the Chapada Diamantina region, interplanting
> >with the BD cash crops and keeping ourselves small by selling our
> >final product to ONLY Eco-Tourism vehicles.
> >
> >There is alot of ciencia that I'm still needing to make my plan a
> >reality. But the local government and people are really hopeful that
> >I can pull it all together.
> >
> >Please Pannirselvam, if you read this,tell me what you are doing so I
> can learn more and share.
> >Thanks,
> >Adrian Machado
> >
> >
> >   Biofeedback
> >Tecnologia ao Servio da Conscincia
> 
> --
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> 


-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Qu’mica - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de P—s Gradua‹o em Engenharia Qu’mica - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universit‡rio
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
2171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
 2171557
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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[JD2005]

- Original Message -
From: Paddy O'Reilly
> I've often thought about a car that would re-charge itself by solar
> panels when its sitting outside our offices for 8+ hours a day.
 Has anybody looked at this scenario -
> where the electric-only car recharges itself during daylight hours
> through the use of solar panels integrated into the body panels?

Is this the one where you use a diesel generator, running biofuel of course,
to keep the batteries topped up?

JD2005


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Re: [Biofuel] "End of Suburbia"

[R Del Bueno]

I wasn't talking about the film, and this below was a quote from a 
previous message:





My bad..sorry for the bit of confusion on my part.

As you say, more sensible behaviour will simply become unavoidable. 
Perhaps above all else, humans as a species are good at adapting, and 
adapt we will.


Indeed!
-Rob


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Re: [Biofuel] What Kind of Car?

[JD2005]

Hi;

Yes, I think this would be an highly marketable vehicle in a sunny country.
You would need additional stuff like supperconductor motors and bearings to
make this work in colder darker countries like the uk or other parts of
northern europe.Now that really is a long way off. Vis solar powered
vehicle or dual powered vehicles, not so far off.   Infact, we see one every
now and then up and running.Exhibition pieces only but working non the
less.


JD2005
- Original Message -
From: Paddy O'Reilly

> Could a diesel hybrid with solar panels could be a marketable product?
> JD2005 wrote:


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