Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Jason!
I'm not fat.
-Weaver
Jason Katie wrote:
the truest and best answer to any TEOTWAWKI situation in america is to start
farms that grow fruits, wildgrasses, vegetables, oil crops, sugar crops,
meat animals, and trees...oh wait WE CANT, that takes work and most fat lazy
americans wont want to be inconvenienced by some dirty work. (this is
assuming america sticks its nose ito something that gets us our neck
snapped, and considering our track record of late i wouldnt be surprised.)
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US
could be going bankrupt
I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.
Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...
I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
parts. Heat goes in, electricity comes out. I really would like to
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually,
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
by step guidance will be under the open information license The point
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
without huge expense.
The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
but first things first...
Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
this planet is in, I will do.
doug swanson
Jason Katie wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel,
i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty
well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US
Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Hey Doug,
I have some small machine equipment and some reasonable priced
machine shops in my area, If I can't make it I'm sure I can have it made. I
am interested in stirling engines for the exact same use. If the plans look
good to me I might be willing to build a prototype at my expense and will
gladly let you know how it works or possibly ship it for your testing.
Everyone Else,
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
This Site Has some great books at really good prices, I highly
recommend the Dave Gingery Series. It includes Sand Casting, Making a Metal
Shaper, Lathe, Milling machine, Drill Press, Accessories, and Sheet Metal
Brake from scrap. The plans can be size up easily and everything can be done
really low budget. There is also many other books, all the ones I've gotten
have been on metal working. Right now I'm working on a furnace that will
hold 75lbs of molten aluminum, and turn around the spot. From one of the
local machine shops I have a supply of about 400lbs of alum turnings a month
all I have to do is go pick them up. They use only 6061 and have one machine
that turns out the same part 8 hours a day 7 days a week. So it's a good
clean source for strong castings.
Logan Vilas
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doug swanson
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US
could be going bankrupt
I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.
Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...
I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
parts. Heat goes in, electricity comes out. I really would like to
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually,
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
by step guidance will be under the open information license The point
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
without huge expense.
The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
but first things first...
Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
this planet is in, I will do.
doug swanson
Jason Katie wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
Re: [Biofuel] GM is obsolete - non-GM biotech now the first choice
LOL! ... the Mike(s) aren't the only ones -- but Jason, you left out another essential: a pepper-shaker! LOL Seriously, tho -- I agree whole-heartedly, as we strive to look backward into the future, keeping foremost in our minds the slogan of sustainability: LESS IS MORE LESS, BUT BETTER Namaste, E. Allen C. --- Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dont really understand why genetically engineered food became popular anyway, why didnt they just do it like farmers have for centuries and breed their plants by hand. even Darwin did it on the HMS Beagle and all it took was a pair of tweezers (dont laugh Mike(s) i know your perverted minds work well together) Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] GM is obsolete - non-GM biotech now the first choice http://www.gmwatch.org/print-archive2.asp?arcid=6668 GM is obsolete - non-GM biotech now the first choice (21/6/2006) The Foundation on Economic Trends (FET), founded by the economist Jeremy Rifkin, who has highlighted the dangers of genetic engineering since the early 1980s, has recently completed a white paper on the next generation of biotech agriculture, called Marker Assisted Selection (MAS). Rifkin, like many others, is convinced that MAS has eclipsed genetic engineering in its potential and that GE is a failed technology whose limitations are hotly denied by corporate-friendly scientists and the entrenched interests they represent. Rifkin's FET sees its position paper as opening up a new conversation in the debate surrounding GM food. Those boiotech proponents wedded to an already outmoded vision of the future of agriculture, centered on GE and patents, can be relied upon to do their damndest to try and drown out that conversation. EXCERPTS: ...new cutting edge technologies have made gene splicing and transgenic crops obsolete and a serious impediment to scientific progress. The new frontier is called genomics and the new agricultural technology is called Marker Assisted Selection, or MAS. Wally Beversdorf, former vice president of plant science research at Syngenta, candidly admitted that although the company was still engaged in GM technology, marker assisted selection is the first choice now in the company's research priorities. European Environmental Commissioner Stavros Dimas raised the question of [GM] contamination of plant varieties and loss of biodiversity in a speech to environmental ministers of the 25 EU member states on April 5, 2006. Dimas told his colleagues that GMO products raise a whole new series of possible risks to the environment, notably potential long term effects that could impact on biodiversity. Dimas said he was particularly concerned about loss of biodiversity because of the vast potential afforded by the new MAS technology... Dimas noted that MAS technology is attracting considerable attention and said that the European Union should not ignore the use of 'upgraded' conventional varieties as an alternative to GM crops. --- http://www.foet.org/FETSupportStatementonMAS.pdf The Foundation on Economic Trends (FET) Statement of Support for Genomics Research and Marker Assisted Selection Technology within the Context of a Broader, More Holistic, Agroecological Approach to Farming For years, the life science companies - Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer, Pioneer, etc. - have argued that GM food is the next great scientific and technological revolution in agriculture, and the only efficient and cheap way to feed a growing population in a shrinking world. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs), including my own, The Foundation on Economic Trends, have been cast as the villains in this unfolding agricultural drama, and often categorized as modern versions of the English Luddites, accused of continually blocking scientific and technological progress because of their opposition to GM food. Now, new cutting edge technologies have made gene splicing and transgenic crops obsolete and a serious impediment to scientific progress. The new frontier is called genomics and the new agricultural technology is called Marker Assisted Selection, or MAS. The new technology offers a sophisticated, new method to greatly accelerate classical breeding. A growing number of scientists believe that MAS - which is already being introduced into the market - will eventually replace GM food. Scientists are mapping and sequencing the genomes of major crop species and using the findings to create a new approach to advancing agricultural technology. Instead of using molecular splicing techniques to transfer a gene from an unrelated species into the genome of a food crop to increase yield, resist pests, or improve nutrition, scientists are now
Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
is that a no contest plea?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph -
US could be going bankrupt
Jason!
I'm not fat.
-Weaver
Jason Katie wrote:
the truest and best answer to any TEOTWAWKI situation in america is to
start
farms that grow fruits, wildgrasses, vegetables, oil crops, sugar crops,
meat animals, and trees...oh wait WE CANT, that takes work and most fat
lazy
americans wont want to be inconvenienced by some dirty work. (this is
assuming america sticks its nose ito something that gets us our neck
snapped, and considering our track record of late i wouldnt be surprised.)
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US
could be going bankrupt
I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.
Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...
I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
parts. Heat goes in, electricity comes out. I really would like to
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually,
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
by step guidance will be under the open information license The point
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
without huge expense.
The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
but first things first...
Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
this planet is in, I will do.
doug swanson
Jason Katie wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just
fuel,
i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need.
house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty
well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:*
[Biofuel] Hemorrhagic fever - Megadeath in Mexico
Discover Magazine Issues Feb-06 features Megadeath in MexicoEpidemics followed the Spanish arrival in the New World, but the worst killer may have been a shadowy nativea killer that could still be out there.By Bruce StutzDISCOVER Vol. 27 No. 02 | February 2006 | Anthropologyhttp://www.discover.com/issues/feb-06/features/megadeath-in-mexico/When Hernando Cortés and his Spanish army of fewer than a thousand men stormed into Mexico in 1519, the native population numbered about 22 million. By the end of the century, following a series of devastating epidemics, only 2 million people remained. Even compared with the casualties of
the Black Death, the mortality rate was extraordinarily high. Mexican epidemiologist Rodolfo Acuña-Soto refers to it as the time of "megadeath." The toll forever altered the culture of Mesoamerica and branded the Spanish as the worst kind of conquerors, those from foreign lands who kill with their microbes as well as their swords.The notion that European colonialists brought sickness when they came to the New World was well established by the 16th century. Native populations in the Americas lacked immunities to common European diseases like smallpox, measles, and mumps. Within 20 years of Columbus's arrival, smallpox had wiped out at least half the people of the West Indies and had begun to spread to the South American mainland.In 1565 a Spanish royal judge who had investigated his country's colony in Mexico wrote:It is certain that from the day that D. Hernando Cortés, the Marquis del Valle, entered this
land, in the seven years, more or less, that he conquered and governed it, the natives suffered many deaths, and many terrible dealings, robberies and oppressions were inflicted on them, taking advantage of their persons and their lands, without order, weight nor measure; . . . the people diminished in great number, as much due to excessive taxes and mistreatment, as to illness and smallpox, such that now a very great and notable fraction of the people are gone. . . .There seemed little reason to debate the nature of the plague: Even the Spanish admitted that European smallpox was the disease that devastated the conquered Aztec empire. Case closed.Then, four centuries later, Acuña-Soto improbably decided to reopen the investigation. Some key pieces of informationdetails that had been sitting, ignored, in the archivesjust didn't add up. His studies of ancient documents revealed that the Aztecs were familiar with
smallpox, perhaps even before Cortés arrived. They called it zahuatl. Spanish colonists wrote at the time that outbreaks of zahuatl occurred in 1520 and 1531 and, typical of smallpox, lasted about a year. As many as 8 million people died from those outbreaks. But the epidemic that appeared in 1545, followed by another in 1576, seemed to be another disease altogether. The Aztecs called those outbreaks by a separate name, cocolitzli. "For them, cocolitzli was something completely different and far more virulent," Acuña-Soto says. "Cocolitzli brought incomparable devastation that passed readily from one region to the next and killed quickly."After 12 years of research, Acuña-Soto has come to agree with the Aztecs: The cocolitzli plagues of the mid-16th century probably had nothing to do with smallpox. In fact, they probably had little to do with the Spanish invasion. But they probably did have an origin that is
worth knowing about in 2006.A portly man with a full, close-cut dark beard, Acuna-Soto is a devoted scholar of all things Mexican. As we maneuver our way through the crowded streets jammed with taco stands around the General Hospital of Mexico, which serves Mexico City's poor and where Acuña-Soto often visits when not teaching at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, he effuses about everything from pre-Hispanic Mexican history to the quality of street-vendor tacos ("stay away from the salsa; it's got nearly as much bacteria as human feces"). When he was younger and thinner, Acuña-Soto saysbefore he went to Harvard University to study epidemiology and molecular biologyhe interned as a physician in rural Chiapas, traveling by burro to patients in remote mountain villages.On our drive south to his home in Cuernavaca, he recalls how his life changed after his return to Mexico in 1984. "When I came back here
from Harvard, there was a big devaluation of the peso. My grant proposals had been accepted, but there was no money."What might a restless epidemiologist do? With an eye toward writing an encyclopedia of Mexican diseases, Acuña-Soto began combing Mexico City's archives, researching the most famous epidemics, those that came after the Spanish conquistadores arrived.The Aztec kingdom then was the last in a line of Mesoamerican states that emerged, flourished, and then vanished over the course of 2,500 years. Borrowing from the preceding Olmec, Teotihuacán, Mayan, and Toltec traditions, the Aztecs studied science and cosmology, agriculture, engineering,
Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...re castings
If you are serious about that endevour join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HotAirEngineSociety/there are several members who have built their own.KirkLogan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Doug,I have some small machine equipment and some reasonable pricedmachine shops in my area, If I can't make it I'm sure I can have it made. Iam interested in stirling engines for the exact same use. If the plans lookgood to me I might be willing to build a prototype at my expense and willgladly let you know how it works or possibly ship it for your testing.Everyone Else,http://www.lindsaybks.com/This Site Has some great books at really good prices, I highlyrecommend the Dave Gingery Series. It includes Sand Casting, Making a MetalShaper, Lathe, Milling machine, Drill Press, Accessories, and Sheet MetalBrake from scrap. The plans can be size up easily and everything can be donereally low budget. There is also many other books, all the ones I've gottenhave been on metal working. Right now I'm working on a furnace that willhold 75lbs of molten aluminum, and turn around the spot. From one of thelocal machine shops I have a supply of about 400lbs of alum turnings a monthall I have to do is go pick them up. They use only 6061 and have one machinethat turns out the same part 8 hours a day 7 days a week. So it's a goodclean source for strong castings.Logan Vilas Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Actually, for most people on PV systems nowadays, I recommend going to Sears and getting the most efficient GE or Kenmore fridge. They use about 30% more power than a Sunfrost, but cost about a third as much, and you can add a few extra solar panels for this. Regular AC fridges used to be really bad, but in the last 5 years they've gotten decent... On 7/16/06, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 16, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote: If I had the bucks I suppose all these hi tech appliances would be nice. Unfortunately I dont so I have to use what most people use. I agree -- THOUSANDS of dollars for a refrigeratorsheesh! I think if you pump your own water 30 kWhrs a day is more realistic.That's already on its own PV array :-)-K ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
I wouldn't recommend the generator route, unless you have a really good soundproofing method I just spent the weekend at a remote cabin, and it had a little PV system for lights and such. But the machine shop there was designed back in the 70's before PV's were available, and it is all set up to run off a 4 cylinder gas generator. Such as racket all day, in a place where normally you can't even hear any traffic or anything It's not only the fossil fuels going into it, but also the noise coming out of it that makes me not like generators, and biofuels only solve part of the problem. I would recommend using biofuels for any heat producing appliance (stove, space heating, dryer, etc), which will save immensly on the cost of the PV system. Except for the workshop and motors, which I have to admit that I like too, it should be possible to run a perfectly modern house from about 1.5kW of PV, or about $15,000.On 7/15/06, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 15, 2006, at 6:27 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: You need to talk to Zeke.For those prices, you could fly him out, have him build you a system and fly back and it would be STILL half as much! Yo, Zeke !! Is that true?I'm a big believerin consultants, having been one myself inthe past. One warning, tho -- the bldg. dept.around here is REALLY up your armpit !! -K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
scratch and dent sales usually mark stuff down 30 or 40%, if you are lucky (or sneaky and totally uninhibited) you could find (or "find/make") ahigh end fridge the same cost as a regular fridge. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid? Actually, for most people on PV systems nowadays, I recommend going to Sears and getting the most efficient GE or Kenmore fridge. They use about 30% more power than a Sunfrost, but cost about a third as much, and you can add a few extra solar panels for this. Regular AC fridges used to be really bad, but in the last 5 years they've gotten decent... On 7/16/06, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 16, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote: If I had the bucks I suppose all these hi tech appliances would be nice. Unfortunately I dont so I have to use what most people use.I agree -- THOUSANDS of dollars for a refrigeratorsheesh! I think if you pump your own water 30 kWhrs a day is more realistic.That's already on its own PV array :-)-K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hemorrhagic fever - Megadeath in Mexico
Thanks Kirk for this interesting read. A great follow-up to Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel Thanks also to the Douglas Fir for their part in the sleuthing. --- Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Discover Magazine Issues Feb-06 features Megadeath in Mexico Epidemics followed the Spanish arrival in the New World, but the worst killer may have been a shadowy nativea killer that could still be out there. By Bruce Stutz DISCOVER Vol. 27 No. 02 | February 2006 | Anthropology http://www.discover.com/issues/feb-06/features/megadeath-in-mexico/ When Hernando Cortés and his Spanish army of fewer than a thousand men stormed into Mexico in 1519, the native population numbered about 22 million. By the end of the century, following a series of devastating epidemics, only 2 million people remained. Even compared with the casualties of the Black Death, the mortality rate was extraordinarily high. Mexican epidemiologist Rodolfo Acuña-Soto refers to it as the time of megadeath. The toll forever altered the culture of Mesoamerica and branded the Spanish as the worst kind of conquerors, those from foreign lands who kill with their microbes as well as their swords. The notion that European colonialists brought sickness when they came to the New World was well established by the 16th century. Native populations in the Americas lacked immunities to common European diseases like smallpox, measles, and mumps. Within 20 years of Columbus's arrival, smallpox had wiped out at least half the people of the West Indies and had begun to spread to the South American mainland. In 1565 a Spanish royal judge who had investigated his country's colony in Mexico wrote: It is certain that from the day that D. Hernando Cortés, the Marquis del Valle, entered this land, in the seven years, more or less, that he conquered and governed it, the natives suffered many deaths, and many terrible dealings, robberies and oppressions were inflicted on them, taking advantage of their persons and their lands, without order, weight nor measure; . . . the people diminished in great number, as much due to excessive taxes and mistreatment, as to illness and smallpox, such that now a very great and notable fraction of the people are gone. . . . There seemed little reason to debate the nature of the plague: Even the Spanish admitted that European smallpox was the disease that devastated the conquered Aztec empire. Case closed. Then, four centuries later, Acuña-Soto improbably decided to reopen the investigation. Some key pieces of informationdetails that had been sitting, ignored, in the archivesjust didn't add up. His studies of ancient documents revealed that the Aztecs were familiar with smallpox, perhaps even before Cortés arrived. They called it zahuatl. Spanish colonists wrote at the time that outbreaks of zahuatl occurred in 1520 and 1531 and, typical of smallpox, lasted about a year. As many as 8 million people died from those outbreaks. But the epidemic that appeared in 1545, followed by another in 1576, seemed to be another disease altogether. The Aztecs called those outbreaks by a separate name, cocolitzli. For them, cocolitzli was something completely different and far more virulent, Acuña-Soto says. Cocolitzli brought incomparable devastation that passed readily from one region to the next and killed quickly. After 12 years of research, Acuña-Soto has come to agree with the Aztecs: The cocolitzli plagues of the mid-16th century probably had nothing to do with smallpox. In fact, they probably had little to do with the Spanish invasion. But they probably did have an origin that is worth knowing about in 2006. A portly man with a full, close-cut dark beard, Acuna-Soto is a devoted scholar of all things Mexican. As we maneuver our way through the crowded streets jammed with taco stands around the General Hospital of Mexico, which serves Mexico City's poor and where Acuña-Soto often visits when not teaching at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, he effuses about everything from pre-Hispanic Mexican history to the quality of street-vendor tacos (stay away from the salsa; it's got nearly as much bacteria as human feces). When he was younger and thinner, Acuña-Soto saysbefore he went to Harvard University to study epidemiology and molecular biologyhe interned as a physician in rural Chiapas, traveling by burro to patients in remote mountain villages. On our drive south to his home in Cuernavaca, he recalls how his life changed after his return to Mexico in 1984. When I came back here from Harvard, there was a big devaluation of the peso. My grant proposals had been accepted, but there was no money. What might a restless epidemiologist do? With an eye toward writing an encyclopedia of Mexican
[Biofuel] Vanadium battery
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.phpA new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. In small scale alternative energy systems usually found in off-grid houses, lead-acid batteries are commonly used to store energy. The main problem with this storage system is that lead-acid batteries aren't too efficient. In order to obtain the most cycles possible (300-1500), the batteries are designed to only use 10% of their storage capacity - that's like only being able to use your iPod for one hour instead of the battery's 10 hour capacity. If more energy is sucked out of them, the amount of times they can be recharged and discharged is drastically shortened. Large scale power companies also have a little problem with storage. Basically, they can't be bothered. It's cheaper for them to estimate the daily power needs of a city and make sure that they produce enough electricity to satisfy all vested interests - that usually takes the form of direct support for industry not individual consumers as many North Americans are finding out on an all too regular basis. Because a powerhouse can't instantaneously lower or raise output, at night there is usually surplus electricity and the crazy situation occurs where it is pumped into the ground. For all the skeptics out there mumbling conspiracy theory, treehugging pinky, just look it up in any dictionary under 'colossal waste'. Which brings me back to the amazing invention of the Vanadium Battery. This battery, as the name so intelligently suggests, uses a metal called Vanadium. The soon-to-be Nobel Prize recipients (if there is any justice in this world) from Australia and Europe, have found a substance that can store energy indefinitely. On top of all that, it is possible to use 100% of the stored energy without any side effects. The number of times the Vanadium Battery can be recharged/discharged is also a tad worrying for other battery makers (over 10,000 plus cycles), who must be searching desperately for new employment opportunities - possibly in the oil industry . In all honesty the word 'battery' falls a little shy of an accurate description of this epoch-creating invention. In very basic terms (which is all I can manage after trying to read the manual) the Vanadium is stored in two separate containers in liquid form - one is charged with energy and one has a depleted energy charge. When new energy is gathered, non-charged Vanadium gets spinached-up and popeye's your uncle, you have lots of energy to expend on a 30 inch Cinema Display connected to 17 inch Powerbook playing Doom until your fingers hurt...um and ah all those other things that use power in a normal household, like lights, fridges, blah, blah, blah. If you decide one day that you need a little more storage capacity, perhaps for that air-conditioner or hairdryer (for the uninitiated, the banes of lead-acid batteries), no worries, just get bigger storage tanks to hold more Vanadium and all of a sudden you have storage to spare. Try that with a lead-acid battery system. On a final and semi-serious note (which is the best I can do after thinking about my dream Mac setup), Vanadium Batteries have profound implications for normal households that don't have an alternative energy system supplying power to their house. As Japan is demonstrating, the amount of energy that their power stations produce can be cut by 1/3 simply by storing their previously dumped excess nightly energy into
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a letter to the editor any help out there? A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming? Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind “and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39. Less than 100 years ago a tyrant
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
Ref: Vanadium redox battery This seems to be the battery we've all been waiting for. I wonder what'll it cost here in the US? Peace, D. Mindock More info at: http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; biofuel Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Ken, Still, it would be very silly to spend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was not satisfied and end up spending the $17,000 to get PGE also. I guess that's why you need to size your consumption and determine where you can shave peak and continual use to determine your final costs. That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what level of inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, See above. There may be no inconvenience to tolerate. Besides, it's not a bad idea to remember the words of Socrates. Hunger is good sauce. Same holds true for tightening the energy belt. Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take? :-) You could probably shave it down to 12 with a little effort, including an electric fridge. I'm kind of curious though. If you don't have electricity to the manger yet, and your technically already off the grid by virtue of not having any substitute as of yet, just what have you been doing for power up to this point? Or are you still applying the earth plaster and getting ready to wire the building? Personally? You'll be a much happier camper if you stay off the grid. Mainstream isn't where it's at. For people who seem to have your penchant, me thinks you'd always kick yourself in the butt for not having a go at it right out of the chute. Todd Swearingen Ken Provost wrote: On Jul 16, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Appal Energy wrote: Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought patterns I did indeed, Todd, and your thoughts as usual are cogent. It's true that the comforts of cheap electricity that I've enjoyed all my life has raised the bar of my imagined needs much higher than they probably are. Still, it would be very silly to spend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was not satisfied and end up spending the $17,000 to get PGE also. That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what level of inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, so I'd prefer to err on the side of having excess capacity (which of course I don't have to use). All your ideas are excellent, and many of them are already designed in. I expect to run house and shop on maybe 15 kWh per day average, which is much less than any home I've had before. But one could always do better. Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be happy and be of service to others? Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take? :-) -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fw: The Force Is Not With Them
BushCo is a paranoid schizo entity. It is based on zero-sum thinking and preference to use force to solve all problems, both at home (intimidation, fear) and abroad (military). Bush's heavy use of signing statements in essence says that he's free to do whatever he wants and that no law is over him. Congress needs to take back all the concessions they've heaped on him, and either censure or impeach him. But the Republican controlled Congress isn't going to do this, even though Bush is ruining (has ruined?) the country both financially and as a society. The Democrats must get control of both Houses of Congress in November and stop BushCo in its tracks. Peace, D. Mindock The Force Is Not With Them By Tom Engelhardt TomDispatch.com Sunday 16 July 2006 The Middle East aflame and the Bush administration adrift. So, as the world spins on a dime, where exactly are we? As a man who is no fan of fundamentalists of any sort, let me offer a proposition that might make some modest sense of our reeling planet. Consider the possibility that the most fundamental belief, perhaps in all of history, but specifically in these last catastrophic years, seems to be in the efficacy of force - and the more of it the merrier. That deep belief in force above all else is perhaps the monotheism of monotheisms, a faith remarkably accepting of adherents of any other imaginable faith - or of no other faith at all. Like many fundamentalist faiths, it is also resistant to drawing any reasonable lessons from actual experience on this planet. The Bush administration came to power as a fundamentalist regime; and here I'm not referring to the Christian fundamentalist faith of our President. After all, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld, and our Vice President seem not to be Christian fundamentalists any more than were Paul Wolfowitz or Douglas Feith. Bush's top officials may not have agreed among themselves on whether End Time would arrive, or even on the domestic social issues of most concern to the Christian religious right in this country, but they were all linked by a singular belief in the efficacy of force. In fact, they believed themselves uniquely in possession of an ability to project force in ways no other power on the planet or in history ever could. While hardly elevating the actual military leadership of the country (whom they were eager to sideline), they raised the all-volunteer American military itself onto a pedestal and worshipped it as the highest tech, most shock-and-awesome institution around. They were dazzled by the fact that it was armed with the smartest, most planet-spanning, most destructive set of weapons imaginable, and backed by an unparalleled military-industrial complex as well as a defense budget that would knock anyone's socks off (and their communications systems down). It was enough to dazzle the administration's top officials with dreams of global domination; to fill them with a vision of a planet-wide Pax Americana; to send them off to the moon (which, by the way, was certainly militarizable). Force, then, was their idol and they bowed down before it. When it came to the loosing of that force (and the forces at their command), they were nothing short of fervent utopians and blind believers. They were convinced that with such force (and forces), they could reshape the world in just about any way they wanted to fit their visionary desires. And then, of course, came 9/11, the Pearl Harbor of this century. Suddenly, they had a divine wind at their back, a terrified populace before them ready to be led, and everything they believed in seemed just soS well, possible. It was, in faith-based terms, a godsend. Not surprisingly, they promptly began to prepare to act in the stead of an imperially angry god and to bring the world - particularly its energy heartlands - to heel. First, however, because they had long been People of the Word, they created their sacred texts, their doctrine. In the form of preventive war and keeping other potential superpowers or blocs of powers from ever rising up to challenge the United States, they enshrined force at the apex of their pantheon of deities in their National Security Strategy of 2002. (The term preventive war was in itself reasonably unique. Usually even the most aggressive dictators don't label their planned wars with terms that creep right up to the edge of aggressive and then promote them that way to the world.) At the same time, the President then began speaking out about the need not to wait until the threat of destruction was upon us as in his 2002 State of the Union Address where he said: We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons. Soon enough, his advisors began raising Iraqi mushroom clouds over American
[Biofuel] In fascist America, thought crimes are prosecutable
From: http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/07/in_fascist_amer.html 7-12-2006 In fascist America, thought crimes are prosecutable Engage in certain types of talk and you can be arrested for thought crimes. Whether they are gathered in a Miami warehouse or an Internet chatroom, if males, especially those of swarthy complexions, engage in big talk about doing evil things, even if they have neither the means nor expertise to carry them out, they stand the chance of being arrested and charged with being terrorists by US authorities. On the other hand, if an estranged husband or boyfriend threatens to kill his wife or girlfriend, police maintain they can do nothing until he takes action, which oftentimes means the woman winds up brutally beaten or dead. In the meantime, the only recourse the woman has is to seek a restraining order that, as often as not, turns out to be meaningless. - Bev Conover By Bev ConoverOnline Journal Editor Publisher Jul 11, 2006, 01:01 Engage in certain types of talk and you can be arrested for thought crimes. Whether they are gathered in a Miami warehouse or an Internet chatroom, if males, especially those of swarthy complexions, engage in big talk about doing evil things, even if they have neither the means nor expertise to carry them out, they stand the chance of being arrested and charged with being terrorists by US authorities. On the other hand, if an estranged husband or boyfriend threatens to kill his wife or girlfriend, police maintain they can do nothing until he takes action, which oftentimes means the woman winds up brutally beaten or dead. In the meantime, the only recourse the woman has is to seek a restraining order that, as often as not, turns out to be meaningless. Does that mean a woman's life has less value than groups of males who titillate themselves with talk of blowing up the Sears Tower in Chicago or the Holland Tunnel connecting New York and New Jersey? Oh, says the Bushies, we can't wait to find out if these guys are going to carry out their plots and never mind that we send in infiltrators to encourage their pipe dreams. "We don't wait until someone has lit the fuse to step in," Homeland [In]Security Secretary Michael Chertoff was quoted by the New York Times as saying at a news conference last Friday about the "New York plot." Of course, they don't call them "thought crimes" arrests. They call them "preemptive action." And while it's viewed as a feather in George W.'s bogus "war on terror" cap if those arrested are convicted of something -- and a number of the 261 "preemptively" arrested and charged have been "persuaded" to cop pleas to some lesser charge, which still makes the "terrorist" label stick -- convictions are not all that important. Why Rep. Peter King (R-NY), chairman of the House Homeland [In]Security Committee, told the Associated Press (AP), "You may end up not winning it in court, but you get a bad guy off the street." A bad guy? A person who hasn't done anything but shoot off his mouth? The AP reported, "Law enforcers, they said, are now willing to act swiftly against al-Qaida sympathizers, even if it means grabbing wannabe terrorists whose plots may be only pipe dreams." Ah yes, "al CIAduh sympathizers." Now that's enough to give any red-blooded American the chills. If swarthy men can be arrested for pipe dreams, what about that emaciated blond, who shall remain nameless to deprive her of more publicity, that has repeatedly called for the death of people and even went so far as to say it was a shame Timothy McVeigh didn't blow up the New York Times Building? Hmm? What about the not so good reverends, Falwell and Robertson, who have called for all sorts of madness and mayhem? Roberston even called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. And the list goes on and on . . . What about them, huh? Are theirs approved "pipe dreams?" Oh my, lawyers have the audacity to question the arresting of people for thought crimes. New York defense lawyer Martin R. Stolar told the Times, "Talk without any kind of an action means nothing. You start to criminalize people who are not really criminals." Golly gee, no kidding? We have been criminalizing people for nonsense for years. Remember when you could have your property confiscated if a passenger dropped a marijuana seed in your car? And when we weren't arresting them for that, we were arresting the cash they were carrying if law enforcement thought the amount was too much (they had to be planning to spend it on something not good, right?). Congress even passed a law making it a crime to threaten the president (back when we had one). Like the average person can walk right up to a prez. But shoot off your mouth in public about how you'd like to do some bodily harm to the occupant of the Oval Office and some upstanding citizen will be on the phone to the Secret Service who will come and whisk you away. University
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
On Jul 17, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Appal Energy wrote:.. you need to size your consumption and determine whereyou can shave peak and continual use to determine your finalcosts.There may be no "inconvenience" to tolerate. I actually did all that last year, but I believe I was not sufficientlydaring. After some more research and considering all the greatinputs from the group, I believe an offgrid PV system of around2000 watts nominal, with some batteries and a 5kW genset, canbe had for nearly the same $ as PGE wants. With some carefulplanning, my needs should be covered in the summer without running the genset much if at all.I'm kind of curious though. If you don't have electricity to themanger yet, and you're technically already off the grid by virtue ofnot having any substitute as of yet, just what have you been doingfor power up to this point?10 awg extension cord 300 feet to a 20A outlet in the neighbor'sgarage :-)Or are you still applying the earth plaster and getting ready to wire the building?Garage is done, house is up to floor joists -- garage bales arelime plastered, and the wiring is done, from the (as yet unconnected)breaker box...Personally? You'll be a much happier camper if you stay off the grid.Mainstream isn't where it's at. For people who seem to have yourpenchant, me thinks you'd always kick yourself in the butt for nothaving a go at it right out of the chute.I think you're spot on there -- after all the financial analysis andthe amps and watts, it comes down to lifestyle and spiritual issues,like so much else. Thanks again for your (and everyone's) inputs on this. I'll let youknow how it plays out...-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biofuel energy gains and environmental impact study
Researchers Assess Life-Cycle Impact of Soy Biodiesel and Corn Ethanol 11 July 2006 http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/researchers_ass.html Soybean biodiesel returns 93% more energy than is used to produce it, while corn grain ethanol currently provides only 25% more energy. Soybean biodiesel produces 41% less greenhouse gas emissions than diesel fuel whereas corn grain ethanol produces 12% less greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline. --- U of M researchers identify energy gains and environmental impacts of corn ethanol and soybean biodiesel and propose alternatives for the next generation of biofuels http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases-lay=web-format=umnnewsreleases/releasesdetail.htmlID=3113-Find Who: Jason Hill, postdoctoral researcher and lead author, University of Minnesota David Tilman, Regents Professor of Ecology and co-author, University of Minnesota Doug Tiffany, research fellow, applied economics, University of Minnesota Contact: Mark Cassutt, University News Service, (612) 624-8038 Peggy Rinard, College of Biological Sciences, (612) 624-0774 MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (7/10/2006) -- The first comprehensive analysis of the full life cycles of soybean biodiesel and corn grain ethanol shows that biodiesel has much less of an impact on the environment and a much higher net energy benefit than corn ethanol, but that neither can do much to meet U.S. energy demand. The study, which was funded in part by the University of Minnesotas Initiative for Renewable Energy and the Environment, was conducted by researchers in the universitys College of Biological Sciences and College of Food, Agricultural and Natural Resource Sciences. The study will be published online July 12 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, http://www.pnas.org/ The researchers tracked all the energy used for growing corn and soybeans and converting the crops into biofuels. They also looked at how much fertilizer and pesticide corn and soybeans required and how much greenhouse gases and nitrogen, phosphorus, and pesticide pollutants each released into the environment. Quantifying the benefits and costs of biofuels throughout their life cycles allows us not only to make sound choices today but also to identify better biofuels for the future, said Jason Hill, a postdoctoral researcher in the department of ecology, evolution, and behavior and the department of applied economics and lead author of the study. The study showed that both corn grain ethanol and soybean biodiesel produce more energy than is needed to grow the crops and convert them into biofuels. This finding refutes other studies claiming that these biofuels require more energy to produce than they provide. The amount of energy each returns differs greatly, however. Soybean biodiesel returns 93 percent more energy than is used to produce it, while corn grain ethanol currently provides only 25 percent more energy. Still, the researchers caution that neither biofuel can come close to meeting the growing demand for alternatives to petroleum. Dedicating all current U.S. corn and soybean production to biofuels would meet only 12 percent of gasoline demand and 6 percent of diesel demand. Meanwhile, global population growth and increasingly affluent societies will increase demand for corn and soybeans for food. The authors showed that the environmental impacts of the two biofuels also differ. Soybean biodiesel produces 41 percent less greenhouse gas emissions than diesel fuel whereas corn grain ethanol produces 12 percent less greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline. Soybeans have another environmental advantage over corn because they require much less nitrogen fertilizer and pesticides, which get into groundwater, streams, rivers and oceans. These agricultural chemicals pollute drinking water, and nitrogen decreases biodiversity in global ecosystems. Nitrogen fertilizer, mainly from corn, causes the 'dead zone' in the Gulf of Mexico. We did this study to learn from ethanol and biodiesel, says David Tilman, Regents Professor of Ecology and a co-author of the study. Producing biofuel for transportation is a fledgling industry. Corn ethanol and soybean biodiesel are successful first generation biofuels. The next step is a biofuel crop that requires low chemical and energy inputs and can give us much greater energy and environmental returns. Prairie grasses have great potential. Biofuels such as switchgrass, mixed prairie grasses and woody plants produced on marginally productive agricultural land or biofuels produced from agricultural or forestry waste have the potential to provide much larger biofuel supplies with greater environmental benefits than corn ethanol and soybean biodiesel. According to Douglas Tiffany, research fellow, department of applied economics and another co-author of the study, ethanol and biodiesel plants are early biorefineries
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
Todd, Appal Energy wrote: JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? Actually I didn't, I am pretty isolated from the racial stuff here but even here in this area I have met a few racists that blame everything on Blacks. Like you say its a childish type of thing to do. Here Democrat is just a term for someone less Liberal. I dont like to label people because I think when you get down to it rational informed people are not so far apart on most issues but it's the priority thats placed on them that stinks. When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Ok I get it now, Yes already the oil folks are launching huge Convenient Lie campaigns against global warming to diminish good and continue to program the SUV generation. Jim Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
The technology looks interesting, but the article takes a tone of uncritical boosting. There is nothing about cost cycle efficiency amount of vanadium resource in proportion to possible applications how it works relation to other technologies (this is one of a family of flow batteries) energy density in relation to alternatives Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
just exactly what is black, white? negro, african american, that damn N-word, pastey, cracker, honkey... its all a waste, so why do people think in these terms? its demented. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a letter to the editor any help out there? A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
More info below the article in the comments section Kirk[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The technology looks interesting, but the article takes a tone of uncritical boosting. There is nothing aboutcostcycle efficiencyamount of vanadium resource in proportion to possible applicationshow it worksrelation to other technologies (this is one of a family of flow batteries)energy density in relation to alternativesDoug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes.[snip] See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
