Re: [biofuel] Nuclear
It's because we are the only thing between freedom and anarchy. Other countries hate the U.S. until someone else threatens them then we become their best friend and they ask for help. We are slowly losing our freedoms also and when all is said and done the whole world will be under a one world government. It's all about money and power. The U.S. is the richest and most powerful nation on the earth, we have helped more nations than any other nation in the world and they still call us evil. They have borrowed money and never paid it back. They want what we have but are unwilling to pay the price. They also forget that indivdual freedom is earned not given. I get tired of hearing the same old rhetoric about how EVIL we are. Do we have a lot, YES. Does that make us evil, NO. I've been reading this garbage for months. If these people would just expend their energy towards the energy problem and stop all this political hogwash things might be better. Let's keep the conversations about energy and how to solve the problems. There are plenty of intelligent people on the web site to change things for the better but cutting the U.S. down isn't going to solve one of them. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Nuclear Why is it that most things American on this list are automatically named as 'EVIL'? American's can produce good cars, as others have said it is the subsidy and corporate welfare that keeps fuel so cheap, I know fuel price increases would aggravate me and everyone else in the US but it's the only way a more fuel efficient car would be accepted. Does this mean the US can only produce BAD cars? As for roads, where does this statement come from? Tell me of a country that has more 4 lane interstate highway miles to drive on as related to total land mass. There isn't a comparison. --- Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe so, maybe not, but it's irrelevant --- the basic problem with nukes as far as I can see, and the reason I will *always* absolutely oppose all of them, no matter what the design, is the human factor. Someone else mentioned the terrorist problem, which is a a growing threat, but the bottom line is this: American workers and industry cannot even produce a decent car, or decent roads to drive them on --- the worker sabotage and carelessness, and the official and industrial corruption are such that they never, ever will. And the same is true of the nuclear industry --- there will never, ever, at any time be a safe nuclear plant built in this country. I've worked both in construction and also in auto plants -- sabotage and absurd design are a given and always will be. = http://devzero.ath.cx/ Visit the Systems Information Database Have some interesting information? Put it up on the SID. -Martin Klingensmith __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up
Hi Martin, Here is the phone number I promised you for the B.A.T.F. in Ohio. The toll free number is 1-800-398-2282. Another number (not toll free) is 1-513-684-7222. The last number is a lady named Karen. She was extremely helpful. It only took a few days for the packet to come and it contained a lot of info concerning the filling out of the application. Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up Can I ask: how hard was it for you to file for and get your fuel producer permit? -Martin Klingensmith (I'm in NY as well) --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had no issue with NY. the fed permit was sufficient. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up Steve, Does the federal permit over rule the state regulations. They (B.A.T.F.) told me to check with my state beverage control board about state laws. My state (Alabama) has stricter regulations than the Feds and they also charge an annual fee of $100.00. They have a statement in the state code that says it must be a continueous. What might this mean? Ron Miller - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up the exemption is that for on site use, the fuel does not have to be denatured. reporting is less stringent as well. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: cpech [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up I believe there is an exemption for less than 10,000 gallons per year. If that applies to you, you might want to take advantage of it. Craig - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:43 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up Martin: Check out http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#alcohol BTW, the form you want is 5110.74 Sec. 19.910 Application for permit required. Any person wishing to establish an alcohol fuel plant shall first make application for and obtain an alcohol fuel producer's permit. The application for a permit will be on Form 5110.74. The application, in duplicate, will be submitted to the regional director (compliance). The description of stills on the approved application constitutes registration of stills as required by 27 CFR 196.45. Alcohol fuel producers' permits are continuing unless automatically terminated under Sec. 19.920, suspended or revoked as provided in Sec. 19.950, or voluntarily surrendered. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1355, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5179); Sec. 232, Pub. L. 96-223, 94 Stat. 278 (26 U.S.C. 5181)) This was last updated on September 17, 1999. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send
Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up
What is snipping? - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up Hi Martin, Here is the phone number I promised you for the B.A.T.F. in Ohio. The toll free number is 1-800-398-2282. Another number (not toll free) is 1-513-684-7222. The last number is a lady named Karen. She was extremely helpful. It only took a few days for the packet to come and it contained a lot of info concerning the filling out of the application. Regards, Ron Miller Try snipping. No need to have six of these on the end of a message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Thanks. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: US BATF Ethanol Permits was Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up
And all of these years I thought we were a progressive thinking country. Maybe it's because I don't drink is why I don't understand. I just want to make fuel for my car. Ron - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:14 PM Subject: US BATF Ethanol Permits was Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up The text after my signature is taken directly off a US Dept. of the Treasury, BATF guide sheet for alcohol fuel plants. Alcohol fuel plants generally fall under small, medium and large. There are other formalities for Specially Denatured Spirits (SDS) users, alcohol fuel producers (small farm plants, etc.) and other alcohol use variations. Alcohol fuel producers start off with form 5110.74. But, as with all paperwork, getting the form is the simple part. Success in obtaining a permit includes other responsibilities, such as securing storage facilities to prevent unauthorized entry. Depending upon production capacity, this could be construed to include razor wire, security personnel, etc. BATF also secures the right to inspect facilities, records and reports during normal business hours, as well as acquisition of samples of products to ensure compliance with law and regulations. Just in case anyone wishes to know. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISTILLED SPIRITS PLANT - INDUSTRIAL INFORMATION This refers to your request for forms and information regarding the establishment of a plant to produce industrial alcohol. In order to establish such a plant, you must comply with all the requirements of Part 19, Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations as follows: 1) Register your plant on Form 5110.41 (see 27 CFR 19.151 and 19.152). 2) Make application on Form 5110.25 for an operating permit (see 19.157 and 19.158). 3) File bond on Form 5110.56 (see Subpart H of Part 19). No photocopies or faxed copies of this form, please! 4) File Form 5000.29, Environmental Information 5) File Form 5000.30, Supplemental Water Quality Considerations. 6) File Form 5000.9, Personnel Questionnaire, for each officer, director and stockholder owning ten percent or more of the voting stock of the corporation. 7) Furnish signature authority for each individual signing documents submitted to this Bureau. Either Form 5000.8, Power of Attorney, or Form 5100.1, Signing Authority for Corporate Officials, may be used for this purpose. However, in lieu of these forms, a resolution by the Board of Directors granting signature authorization may be submitted. 8) File application on Form 5100.16, to receive spirits by transfer in bond (see 19.506). An application is required for each distilled spirits plant transferring spirits. 9) If any trade names are to be used, submit evidence of State registration. .. http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#alcohol BTW, the form you want is 5110.74 Sec. 19.910 Application for permit required. Any person wishing to establish an alcohol fuel plant shall first make application for and obtain an alcohol fuel producer's permit. The application for a permit will be on Form 5110.74. The application, in duplicate, will be submitted to the regional director (compliance). The description of stills on the approved application constitutes registration of stills as required by 27 CFR 196.45. Alcohol fuel producers' permits are continuing unless automatically terminated under Sec. 19.920, suspended or revoked as provided in Sec. 19.950, or voluntarily surrendered. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1355, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5179); Sec. 232, Pub. L. 96-223, 94 Stat. 278 (26 U.S.C. 5181)) This was last updated on September 17, 1999. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
I also believe that we should always help the poor. Someone once said something like give a man a fish and feed him, teach the man to fish and he can feed himself. Another great man said The poor will always be with you. There is plenty of food in this world. There is also plenty of unfarmed land in this world. Maybe if the rich countries would help teach the poor countries how to be good farmers it would help reduce world hunger. I often look a very wealthy people and wonder how much more money do they need. This whole thing is about life and how to live it as comfortably as is possible. Maybe one day we will have a breakthrough in a technonlgy that will help us feed those less fortunate than we. I hope it is soon. Ron - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:15 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) I reread the Food first stuff and found the same as before: World hunger is like a beggar looking in the window of a restruant or Macdonalds. I agree that we need to do something about that. Indeed I would like that to be my focus. There is nothing to suggest that slowing the rate of increase in productive capacity will help the poor. Indeed my point is that finding ways of closing the economic gap has a higher priority than many green issues if we are to achieve ecological sustainability. OK concurrent will do. We should be able to feed the world without damageing tnhe environment if we work on inequallity. I just don't see that as part of the agenda of the Australian environment movement and that worries me. Is it really so extreme to say that if we fail to adress inequallity the rest of our efforts are wasted?? How different sustainable agriculture is to the past and present systems is important and as it affects employment patterns relevant to social equity. Modern farming technologies are not necessarily bad if combined with the proven soilbuiding techniques. Low returns are another matter, it takes capital in money or time to protect the soil. Higher prices are not the answer if the urban poor can afford less. I don't mind if you use horses, I like horses. Water buffalow are probably nice people too. (No I don't want one). Regards Harry. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear the arguments, but where they lack a logical build up that can be followed I treat them as opinion. You write as if the green revolution didn't deliver any food to people (individuals) who were hungry or who would have otherwise died of starvation related disease. The world population has increased by billions, somebody must be surviving. I agree that the increases have made a bad situation worse in the long run. There are more people starving now than before possibly even a greater proportion. It seems reasonable to blame that on the survival of children who would otherwise have died. Does this mean that it was wrong to feed them? --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary and Jos Kimlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My wife is studying for a master in Sustainable Agriculture, I'm a little selective in what I read on the subject and so we often argue about such matters. I tutor OS students in critical reading (many are trained to believe everything that they read and suffer real trauma when presented with varying opinions in a lit. review) so I discard papers that do not have a stand alone logical development that fits the pattern I use for students. (I wouldn't read much of my own ravings) Are you sure that's why you don't read things? I'm very sceptical. snip Do you seriously believe that alternative agriculture can match the production of the industrialised systems and then increase production to meet increasing global demand? ( I allow the same level of subsidy that you demonstrate for the Brits). No need for subsidies. I think I gave you these before, but maybe they didn't stand up to your critical reading criteria: One 15-year study found that organic farming is not only kinder to the environment than conventional, intensive agriculture but has comparable yields of both products and profits. The study showed that yields of organic maize are identical to yields of maize grown with fertilisers and pesticides, while soil quality in the organic fields dramatically improves. (Drinkwater, L.E., Wagoner, P. Sarrantonio, M. Legume-based cropping systems have reduced carbon and nitrogen losses. Nature 396, 262-265.) A Rodale study found that organic farm yields equal factory farm yields after four years using organic techniques. In the USA, for example, the top quarter sustainable agriculture farmers now have higher yields than conventional farmers, as well as a much lower negative
Re: [biofuel] Still start-up
Hi Martin, I received my packet not long ago from the B.A.T.F. the form you need is ATF F %110.74 (2/90). This is an application for a permit NOT A PERMIT. The address is National revenue Center Room 8002 Federal Office Building 550 Main Street, Cincinnati, Ohio 45202. I will try to find the phone number for you as soon as I can. I believe I left it at work. It also might be a good idea to get with Tony Ackland about the size of your still and the amount you want to produce. Good Luck, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: [biofuel] Still start-up I am planning on starting up a small still [10 gal/day to start] for my own experimental fuel purposes. Could anyone supply me with the form number I need to get a small fuel ethanol distiller's license from the BATF? I will probably start work before I actually get the license but I do intend to be legal with what I do. My intentions: -- I will be starting a web page soon. I will provide a complete plan/description of everything I will produce enough ethanol to burn a 25% mix in my car, or convert my fuel system so it can run on at least 50%, while still being able to run on 100% gasoline I will use corn, as it is an agricultural area and corn is plentiful and inexpensive. I will burn corn or sawdust or as a last resort propane or natural gas or coal -- My needs: -- A definite place to locate the still [60% sure I can find a place soon] A BATF permit - a few months and I'll hopefully have it A good, working plan of a still that is the right size. Batches of 50 gallons are the intended volume of wash. Of course I always need more money, but I intend to build the still for as cheap as possible with used parts. Perhaps a market for ethanol that I don't use for personal fuel needs. A friend of mine wants to produce biodiesel for his vehicles - maybe he will want to try ethyl ester production instead of methyl ester. I talked to an old friend who owns a wood mill, he said he might let me put it 'out back' benefits: cheap electricity [industrial rate] - though I intend to not need any electricity easy access [close to home] free/nominal fee for land usage free/nominal fee for sawdust/chips [cellulose conversion for fermentation perhaps] Well I'm just rambling in a true sense of the word. Comments / help / _information_ GREATLY appreciated. I could use real fuel still plans [190+proof first pass] Thanks -Martin Klingensmith __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up
Steve, Does the federal permit over rule the state regulations. They (B.A.T.F.) told me to check with my state beverage control board about state laws. My state (Alabama) has stricter regulations than the Feds and they also charge an annual fee of $100.00. They have a statement in the state code that says it must be a continueous. What might this mean? Ron Miller - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up the exemption is that for on site use, the fuel does not have to be denatured. reporting is less stringent as well. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: cpech [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up I believe there is an exemption for less than 10,000 gallons per year. If that applies to you, you might want to take advantage of it. Craig - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:43 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Still start-up Martin: Check out http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#alcohol BTW, the form you want is 5110.74 Sec. 19.910 Application for permit required. Any person wishing to establish an alcohol fuel plant shall first make application for and obtain an alcohol fuel producer's permit. The application for a permit will be on Form 5110.74. The application, in duplicate, will be submitted to the regional director (compliance). The description of stills on the approved application constitutes registration of stills as required by 27 CFR 196.45. Alcohol fuel producers' permits are continuing unless automatically terminated under Sec. 19.920, suspended or revoked as provided in Sec. 19.950, or voluntarily surrendered. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1355, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5179); Sec. 232, Pub. L. 96-223, 94 Stat. 278 (26 U.S.C. 5181)) This was last updated on September 17, 1999. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Still plans
Tony, What size pot and what size column would one need to produce 5 gallons of ethanol per day? Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] Still plans Martin, For still plans I could suggest that you modify a Nixon-Stone still. http://www.gin-vodka.com See the photos section (page 1) at my site, http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller for a couple of examples/versions of it. To get the purity, you will require a tall, well-packed column, and a good control over the reflux ratio. This still will do both those things. I presently run one for drinking alcohol (its legal here in New Zealand). However, it is not up to the quantity that you require. With a 1380W heater in it, I presently take about 93% alcohol at 40 mL/min (0.6 gal/hour). Higher purity is easily achieved, but at a slower rate. Sounds like you'd be more in the 2x or 3x version of this (3-4 kW) ? To modify it would be only a change in the column diameter (say to 2-2.5 inch ?) and a beefed up condenser. It would be a batch still operation, or are you after something more continuous ? Tony Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
I just received info from a company called Zeochem. The 3A zeolite will trap 18-20% of it's weight in water. I haven't had time to calculate how much zeolite is needed to adsorb the water from a gallon of 95.6% ethanol. The neat thing is zeolite can be heated after use to about 400 F to remove the trapped water. They say if done properly the zeolite could last as long as 30 months. I still do not have the exact process used or the cost of the zeolite. Still looking and listening. Ron Miller - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Hi Martin, Thanks for the info. I have not received any info yet from companies I written to as to how much zeolite cost. As soon as I find out I will post it on this web. Good luck to you with your final exam. Ron - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Molar mass of CH3CH2OH = ~46g Molar mass of H20 = ~33g Assuming you have 100 pounds of ethanol at 90%, you have around 9 pounds of water in there. Eight pounds of water being 30% [conservative figure] means 100% of the zeolite would be 25 pounds. [This was done in my head and it's probably erroneous by at least 10%] Not bad if zeolite is what I think it is, it can be dryed/reused. How much does your zeolite cost? -Martin Klingensmith [high school student, chemistry final is next week :)] --- ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Use molecular sieves to absorb water from ethanol/methanol. That's what they're made for and they're reusable/nontoxic. --- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller According to the web source Keith provided, it's about $10 per pound, but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it might be more now. BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in absorbed water, not the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is good up to 40% of its weight, but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol nearly as much as water. Does anyone know? -K __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Thanks for the info. Do you know the process used? Is it poured or distilled through zeolite Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Angstroms. How much Zeolite you need depends on how much water is in the EtOH. A liter of 95% EtOH will have about 50g of H2O in it, so about 150 grams of Zeolite will adsorb that water before needing to be regenerated. Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Hi Martin, Thanks for the info. I have not received any info yet from companies I written to as to how much zeolite cost. As soon as I find out I will post it on this web. Good luck to you with your final exam. Ron - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Molar mass of CH3CH2OH = ~46g Molar mass of H20 = ~33g Assuming you have 100 pounds of ethanol at 90%, you have around 9 pounds of water in there. Eight pounds of water being 30% [conservative figure] means 100% of the zeolite would be 25 pounds. [This was done in my head and it's probably erroneous by at least 10%] Not bad if zeolite is what I think it is, it can be dryed/reused. How much does your zeolite cost? -Martin Klingensmith [high school student, chemistry final is next week :)] --- ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Use molecular sieves to absorb water from ethanol/methanol. That's what they're made for and they're reusable/nontoxic. --- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller According to the web source Keith provided, it's about $10 per pound, but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it might be more now. BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in absorbed water, not the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is good up to 40% of its weight, but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol nearly as much as water. Does anyone know? -K __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
According to companies who are listed on the web, zeolite 3A will absorb 30 to 40% of its weight in water. I have read that 3A stands for 3 angstrums(spelling) and as I understand water molecues are bigger than that, it also will allow ethanol to pass right through but trapping the water. But, how much zeolite do you need to filter a gallon of ethanol to make it anhydrous. I don't know. Maybe one of our chemistry majors can help us with that. Anyone? Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Use molecular sieves to absorb water from ethanol/methanol. That's what they're made for and they're reusable/nontoxic. --- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller According to the web source Keith provided, it's about $10 per pound, but I was quoted that much for silica gel, so it might be more now. BTW, the same source says only 10% of its weight in absorbed water, not the 25% I mentioned. Sounds lowsilica gel is good up to 40% of its weight, but it's not very selective -- may absorb ethanol nearly as much as water. Does anyone know? -K __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Maybe it's a difference in cultures other than my own(no offence to anyone) and my sense of humor was a little short that day. Maybe there are more diesel folks out there than there are ethanolers. I'm just trying to find the most economical wat to make and dry ethanol. There is enough brain power on this web for us to find the info to accomplish what we need to know. My lack of education prevents me from carrying on a scientific conversation and it's very frustrating not to find the information I need to do what I want to do. Ahh, I feel better now. Thanks, Ron - Original Message - From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:23 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 Well, I think that the ethanol people would be the moonshine makers, whereas the Biodiesel people would obviously be the more highly cultivated? Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. Mike B -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller Hi Ron Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we all share your aims, or should. There's no division that I know of between biodiesel and ethanol people - I see it as the same subject. If there were a division I'd be very perturbed. Please explain? Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Ken, Thanks for the info. I don't have any as yet. In fact I haven't built my still at this time. The state of Alabama has a lot of restrictions pertaining to ethanol production. I have written to the governor, the lt governor, my senators, representatives, the president and vice president about the laws but all I get back are form letters thanking me for writing. I don't want to go to jail for making fuel so I am gathering info from any source I can. Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Hi to all, Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using 3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this but I'd like to know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of distilled ethanol. Any remarks? Thanks, Ron Miller First, make sure it's dry, by heating to about 600 deg. F for several hours, then cooling back down in dry air. Toss in the required amount with your hydrous ethanol (molecular sieve zeolite absorbs like 25% of its weight in water) and stand back -- it can get HOT. Takes a few hours to get saturated. Oh, I'm sure the pros will talk all about columns of X dia. and Y length, with flow rates of blah, blah, but the simple ways are best. Good luck -- BTW, I only have free samples of this stuff. Did you actually have to PAY for it, and if so, how much (if you don't mind my asking :-)). Check out http://www.sorbentsystems.com/desiccants_charts.html for some good info and graphs, and let us know your results. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 482
MAYBE HE DIDN'T SPEND 20 YEARS IN THE SERVICE. SO HE CAN'T DRAW MILITARY RETIREMENT. MY FIRST QUESTION IS IF HE IS HOMELESS WHY DOESN'T HE GO TO A SHELTER OR THE SALVATION ARMY. MY SECOND QUESTIO IS HOW DID HE GET ONLINE - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 482 I'm a 71 year old disabled veteran and I'm homeless. I served my country well and now I do not have enough income to rent an apartment. I only get $700 per month for old age social security and I get $100 per month for fighting in the Vietnam War. That is not enough money to feed myself every day. - Freeman Davis, 71 Year Old Oakland Resident odd... my grandfather pulls in 2,000 a month for his service to his country. dont know about his social security. he worked for 30 years.. so I imagine it is ok. Its supposed to be a help..so you are supposed to save, not to provide all your income. I think it is based, somewhat losely, on the amount you put in, with a relatively nice floor if you never really worked too much. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Silica Gel
What is the process for removing water from ethanol and how much silica gel do you need. Again, if 5% water is present in ethanol it will help the engine to run cooler and it will help reduce carbon deposits. Why do you need to remove it if you are using it in a gas burning engine? I'm still new at this. Regards, Ron Miller [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Silica Gel
My question is, if that 5% water is miscible with ethanol then why remove it. Back in WWII they used water and alcohol in old fighter aircraft. The mix kept the engine cooler (within a normal heat range)thereby creating more power. If a person had a fuel injected automobile wouldn't this have the same effect. Straight alcohol will definitly make an engine run cooler. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: [biofuel] Silica Gel I hear that silica gel can be used to take the last 5% of the water out of ethanol. Does this help? What are the advantages? How much do you need/use? Any info or informational resources would be appreciated? I have some extra silica gel (10 pounds) if someone needs it or wants to experiment with it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
Back in the original gasoline crunch of the '70's everybody was adding water injectors better camshafts, headers and all sorts of stuff to increase milage. One guy wrote in to a magazine that he had installed all of the devices they had recomended over a years time. He said his milage was so good that every 60 miles he had to stop and remove a gallon. Makes me wonder if the magnets would clear up my sinus'. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Shuey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money Ahhh shoot.. Now I have no heat.. ;-( hehehe sorry had to say it. ;-) Jeremy --- David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey it works, Have just fitted magnets to my radiator hoses and just started the car and already it is running cooler. Must be the alignment of the molecules allows the water to run through the engine and radiator faster achieving better cooling. Warren, you did say increased mileage, not increased fuel consumption and more power, didnt you? B.r., David I do know that the magnets work on the water. We have extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with the limestone and all, and the magnets actually make the water a whole lot more soft. The idea behind the magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules in the fluid, or water in my case. I have had them on for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't clogged or had any other problems associated with any idea of problems with the magnets. H I think i may try to put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my fuel mileage. NE Ways.. let ya know what happens. Jeremy __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Hi David, Good to hear from you. I'm not mad and I will try not to take everything so personal. We do work hard for what we have here and we like to enjoy the fruits of our labor. I can't speak for our politicians but then neither can they. It's very hard to speak from both sides of their mouth. We do seem to wait until there is a crisis before we react(pearl harbor)but we do react. When the crisis comes we will jump into the problem with both feet and try to solve it. Sometimes we fail because we jump to fast. I am not going to wait for our president to make energy policies, I'm going to make my own policy and start making ethanol for home and auto use. My nephew has a race car and we are going to try the juice on it to see what happens. If it works OK on his rade car I'm going to try it on my 17 miles to the gallon guzzling '93 corvette. I will let everyone know how it works. Found a lot of good info on stills today thru journey to forever, thanks to Keith. Everbody on here has something to say. Some good some not so good but as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Don't stop being critical but don't step on us yanks to hard, we're just people looking for a better life like everone else. We ain't perfect but we're trying. Thanks a bunch for your letter Regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Hi Ron, Yeah I will stop if all you Americans promise to consume not more than the 5% you are entitled to. No seriously Ron I am sorry if you think what I am saying is personal and I am attacking all you Americans. It is not you Americans I am opposed to but your consumption of energy and lack of what seems a coherent policy for the future. At a time when America and the rest of the world is crying out for a leader with vision and solutions to the coming energy crisis if we continue down the same path America seems to have taken a retrograde step with reference to energy. I cant see anything inspiring in the new Energy Policy that has just been released. As I was saying the other day one of the things that existed under the Kennedy era was a certain dynamic approach to solving problems that seems to be missing in the Bush administration and other current crop of world leaders. (And before you accuse me of being a Democrat I am not, nor Republican either). The only thing fundamentally wrong with democracy and politics is politicians. Most of them from my observations tend to be tarred with the same brush). I think part of this came about because America under Kennedy made up its mind right or wrong it was going to the Moon and getting involved in other aspects of the Space Policy and went ahead and did them. As a result it was rather a challenging age. Rather than looking for and pumping more oil which is only going to bring the crisis nearer, and sitting on their hands the time to get up and run with new policies and incentives is right now. In the end there may be no crisis; time has a way of presenting solutions; but sure as the Sun is going to come up tomorrow (unless you live in Antartica at present) if you sit on your hands that crisis is going to arise. In the end I expect a lot of those solutions will come from the States. While I may not like your current energy policies I would be the first to admit that America has invested very heavy in its Universities and it is these that are more likely to provide solutions than anything else. The quickest way to do this is to offer Research Scholarships, something that is done already but something that should be greatly accelerated. You dont win a war by throwing in a few more men at the front but throwing in a large complete battalion quite often makes a difference. By the way I am not anti American and I'm also of Scots descent (one of my great ancestors set up Edinburgh University) so as one sheep shaggers descendent to another dont take me too personally. Its also not the 50 million 4 legged sheep I worry about, but the other 4 million (I share this country with), and the other 6 billion (I share this planet with), two legged sheep. The world seems to be full of sheep and pigs. Why the sheep have to be ruled by the pigs I dont know. Bah, I mean bye. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Hey, come on now, please stop the American bashing. We are all in this together although I would say we (Americans) should be leading the world in alternate fuel development. It's really hard for us little guys to fight the big oil companies and the government. The govenment did send me an application form for an alternate fuel plant(still
Re: [biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel - Excise??
Here in the U.S. we can produce 10,000 proof gallons a year for personal use without taxation. Ask your reprsentative to review this U.S. policy and follow suit. How much money do our governments need anyway. Hope you can beat the tax down. Ron Miller - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:14 PM Subject: [biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel - Excise?? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:00 AM Subject: Biodiesel - Excise?? Hello, Biodiesel update, yesterday the 23/5/01 a report by Robert Hill was tabled in the federal senate, the contents of which are concerning. The report is in response to a request by the senate asking the government to assess the 3 points raised by the BAA in its submission to the federal government. Our concern is based on the following paragraph: The inquiry into fuel taxation announced by the Prime Minister on 1 March 2001 is the appropriate vehicle for raising questions about the excise status of biodiesel and support for the industry. The terms of reference for the inquiry will be developed following discussions with interested parties. One term of reference will be that the principle of revenue neutrality be observed. For Senator Hills report and the BAA barrister's analysis of it see the BAA home page. http://biodiesel.vtrekker.com Each is 1 page. If excise is imposed on Biodiesel it doesn't matter if your making it in your backyard or commercial plant, you will have to pay it. NOW is the time to ask the government to commit to keeping excise off Biodiesel so this fuel can be produced in Australia, contact your local member. __ Other news, a stakeholders meeting is to be held on the 7/6/01 at CSIRO in Melbourne, regarding the 'desk top' study led by Tom Beer on the life cycle emissions of fuels. Call Ms Jane Sellinger on 03 9239 4695 to book your place. __ The next BAA members newsletter is due out late next week. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More about methane :-)
Maybe the government needs to find ways to use biofuels on farm animals to reduce emissions. What is wrong with the people in our governments? Do they not have a clue as to what is going on? And I thought things were getting bad here in the U.S. O.K., I've gotten it out of my system, I just remembered we elected these dummies. Ron - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 7:35 AM Subject: [biofuel] More about methane :-) http://www.spacedaily.com/news/010520103041.1y4o72zc.html SPACE WIRE Tax on flatulent animals could cost NZ farmers a packet WELLINGTON (AFP) May 20, 2001 A flatulence tax proposed to offset the damage to the ozone layer by farm animal gases could cost New Zealand farmers up to five billion NZ dollars (2.1 billion US), a report said Sunday. The proposal is included in the government's policy on climate change, aimed at complying with the Kyoto Protocol guidelines to reduce greenhouse gases, the Sunday Star-Times reported. The government is looking at taxing farmers between four and 60 NZ dollars for each cow and sheep they own, because of the dangerous gases the animals produce through dung, urine and flatulence. Nitrous oxide from dung and urine, and methane from flatulence, are blamed for damaging the ozone layer and contributing to global warming. New Zealand has nearly 47 million sheep and 10 million beef and dairy cattle. While New Zealand contributes only 0.2 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions, 55 percent of that comes from methane and nitous oxide in agricultural soil. The tax proposal suggests that the government could reap between two and five billion NZ dollars from the levy on farm animals between 2008 and 2012. Farmers are baffled about how to remedy natural animal behaviour and say the tax could make farming uneconomic. But cabinet minister Pete Hodgson, who is responsible for the government's climate change policy, denied Sunday that a tax was being considered, saying research was the way to go. Research into livestock digestion and pasture composition may deliver the double benefit of reducing emissions while improving the efficiency of the animals conversion of food to bodyweight, he said in a statement. Federated Farmers president Alastair Polson said the tax move -- if it went ahead -- was a significant shift in the tax burden to the productive economy. The federation argues that any reduction in emissions New Zealand could make were so small in a global sense that the cost of achieving them would outweigh the benefits. It will soon release a discussion paper on the proposed tax. The government aims to introduce climate change legislation by the end of the year, which would lead to the ratification of the protocol by mid-2002. All rights reserved. © 2000 Agence France-Presse. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives
Thanks for the honesty, it goes a long way these days. Ron - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 7:36 AM Subject: Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives Keith, I went to the archives and found Robert Warrens paper on stills he had designed but I can't get his e-mail address. I would like to purchase the plans he spoke about. Could you help me? I really need to get this going soon. Thanks, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Ron Oh dear. If you'd searched a bit further you'd've found out why we dropped both that still and its promoter from our website. To be brief, it's a no-no. It won't live up to his claims for it, it doesn't do the job, and independent experts have warned that it's dangerous. The plans are unclear, the directions for building it are most confused and contradictory, the parts list is wrong, and impossible to fit to the directions and the plans, and the instructions for use are, well, benighted. Like the rest of it. I think the paper you found may have been my rework of Warren's confused material, which I did to try to help people who'd already bought the plans (but I couldn't guarantee the results of my work on it). Forget it. Really, that's the best advice. I know it looks tempting, but you'll just waste your money and your time. We managed to find only ONE person, out of more than 60 who'd bought Warren's plans, who actually got the thing working, but the performance was poor. He got much better results out of a StillMaker. You'd be better off scaling up a StillMaker. Bob Lennon, the designer, told me there's no problem in scaling it up. Meanwhile other designs are in the pipeline, very promising, but not ready yet. Sorry, Ron. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] Using the archives Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives
The Mother Earth article I found on the net looked very simular to the Mathewson article. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives Hi Ron Thanks for the honesty, it goes a long way these days. :-) The trouble is the performance claims for that still are just about right for a fuel still - 180-190 proof first time every time, 5 gal/hr or more. But all available evidence says that's all they are, empty claims. Currently, there doesn't seem to be a real still available in that performance range. People are aware of it, and working on it, but it's taking time. Just as soon as there are some results the list will know about it. Until then, there's not much I can offer, I'm very sorry to say. Well, there is one thing. I haven't yet finished scanning the Mother Earth Alcohol Manual, and the next section is about stills, which could help. I'll try to do it as soon as I can, but we're a bit overloaded right now. Patience, Ron! Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Ron - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 7:36 AM Subject: Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives Keith, I went to the archives and found Robert Warrens paper on stills he had designed but I can't get his e-mail address. I would like to purchase the plans he spoke about. Could you help me? I really need to get this going soon. Thanks, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Ron Oh dear. If you'd searched a bit further you'd've found out why we dropped both that still and its promoter from our website. To be brief, it's a no-no. It won't live up to his claims for it, it Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Still Help
Keith, Can you tell me if it makes any difference what type of metal one uses to build a column for a still. Stainless steel is preferable but could one use auto or diesel exhaust tubing/pipe. I know that plain steel will rust after a period of time but if you clean the column with regularity would it make any difference. I'm not a drinker but I don't want my product contaminated. Also I have been reading some of the material you recomended on the net(great stuff)but am curious about my math. It seems that it will take about 25 pounds of wheat or corn in a mash to distill one gallon of product/ethanol. Is my math wrong? Your help and others who have replied have spurred me on to more reading and although I must say I am quite anxious to build my still I still do not know what size I need to build. I would like to produce say five to ten gallons a week if possible. Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters snip We are told that there is enough oil to last 70 years if we keep finding oil at the current rate but with the increasing number of vehicles on the road and countries like China coming on line I seriously doubt if there is 35 years supply left. B.r., David I doubt we can take another 35 years of the side-effects. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using the archives
Keith, I went to the archives and found Robert Warrens paper on stills he had designed but I can't get his e-mail address. I would like to purchase the plans he spoke about. Could you help me? I really need to get this going soon. Thanks, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] Using the archives Hi all I've had some enquiries about this, and it's useful for new members, so... Go to the messages section at the list website at Yahoo! Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages Yahoo! Groups : biofuel Messages Here you'll see the latest messages. You can read them, respond to them, post new messages, scroll back, view the messages in various ways, and search the database containing all messages posted to the list from the start - currently 5521 of them. There are two ways of searching. There's a search archive box, type in key word(s) and hit the button. Also, each message has a number, like this: Msg # 2959 - briggs and stratton; kerosene or biodiesel? - steve spence - Tue 2/27/2001 These numbers are only to be found at the website interface, they're not included in emailed messages. There's a separate Msg # search box, type in the number you want and hit Go. This is useful when referring other members to a particular message in the archives. I recently said that Yahoo! had improved the search service so that it now searches all messages in a db instead of only the first 5,000 as previously. I was told so, but seems not - it's only searching the first 5,000. :-( I'm trying to find out more about this. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors
Keith, What do you know about molecular seives? I read an article on the net about a company who uses the seive to filter all the water out of ethanol after distillation making it pure 100% - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 11:32 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors Hi Kirk Same way as unleaded gas. Use an additive or. . . Running ethanol in a stocker is a huge waste. The compression should be raised to get decent mileage. Also: The absence of lead, which lubricated the valve seat, causes the very hard oxidation products of the exhaust valve to wear down the seat. This valve seat recession is usually corrected by installing seat inserts, hardening the seats, or use of specific valve seat recession protection additives. I saw photos of an ethanol fueled engine from a taxi with 300k on it. Looked like a gasoline engine with 50k on it. Where did you see those photos? Are they on the Web maybe? Kirk Bush whacked or Gored. Some choice. Nader a truer word spoken in jest? (Sorry!!) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phillip Paton Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:58 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors Hi I have only recently had my eyes open to the idea of making your own biofuels, and find this list very interesting and informative. thanks I'd like to ask a question regarding using straight ethanol in older motors, originally designed for leaded petrol. The lead had a role in lubricating the valve and preventing valve seat recession. LRP also has an additive for this purpose. With the use of straight ethanol how is the valve lubrication achieved. regards Phil Paton Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Thanks for your letter. I'm still trying to find the right size design for what I have in mind. Maybe I've been thinking to small as to still size. I have a 1993 corvette, a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo, a 1972 chevy chevelle, a mitsubishi mirage, a riding lawn mower and a push mower. I'm paying US $29.00 every 10 days for the corvette gasoline(petrol?), the chevelle eats gas likes crazy, the rodeo and the mitsubishi aren't to bad but still use fuel. (we have a big family) I would like to make enough ethanol to run the family fleet but have no idea how large to make my still. Any hints would be greatly appreciated as I know you are getting into the still business. If there is someone who has good plans for the size still I need please let me know. Thanks to all, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow Hi Ron, Keith, Steve, Aleks, et al, At present I believe I have solved a number of problems associated with small fuel ethanol stills, and was about to bring a range of small stills out at the start of the year, after spending the previous 18 months working almost full time on them in between caring for my mother. I was hoping that these small stills would help pay for further developments to get some of the slightly bigger still experimental work finished and to a useable stage but have got somewhat diverted with these by-pass oil and fuel filters which I see as a worthwhile venture in their own right, whose use I would most definitely like to see spread and become commonplace, and with trying to solve the distillation and purification of glycerine, a by-product which widespread production and purification to a reasonably high level would certainly help with the manufacture and cost of biodiesel. Unfortunately the envolvement with the by-pass filters has meant I need to concentrate on that at this stage as it is taking every penny I have to keep it going with the result that work on the stills has come to a grinding halt in the meantime. At present I could get back and shortly intend to get back on to the production of stills but really need about $20,000 to $30,000 to get them up and running. If there is someone out there who is prepared to put up that sort of money in return for a reasonable return on their money I am prepared to get back onto them but in the meantime I need to pursue the course I have adopted. At this stage I have thrown a lot of money at both projects although far more at the still one and would eventually like to see a return on my money while at the same time seeing these benefit people. Having spent the last 11 1/2 years of my life looking after my folks I dont want to be in the same boat when it comes to my old age. The plans are therefore not for sale but I hope it will not be long before I get stills to market. Ron if you are getting involved with ethanol production I would advise you against involvement with a lot of the small alcohol stills out there for the home distillation market as the majority of them were designed by people who only have a limited knowledge of distillation with grossly inferior stills resulting. (not to say that good quality stills will not come out of this area eventually). Talk about Cowboys International. (probably not a good thing to say to someone living in the States as I am sure there are many hardworking, honest, and good cowboys there. In this part of the world the word cowboy applied in this sense means something totally different: like someone who is as rough as guts, takes no pride in his work, and in short is a rip off artist). I suggest you download the two books Keith has on his site and thoroughly read them. You will learn a lot from them in terms of the basics. I would also search your local large city library with the help of a good librarian who knows what she is doing. It is amazing what they can turn up. They can also source books from other libraries. One good source worth looking in is your local university Engineering School Dept. B.r., David Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home Distillation Handbook By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good details for construction purposes. Thanks, Ron Miller Mobile , Alabama Hello Ron The Home Distillation Handbook is really for drinkers more than fuellers. You should do better with these (both full-text online, free access): Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home Distillation Handbook By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good details for construction purposes. Thanks, Ron Miller Mobile , Alabama - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hanns forgive me for mispelling your name and forgetting to give you my e-mail address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Glycerin and absolute alcohol
Could someone help me? I am new to all of this. I want to make ethanol legally here in the U.S. What is the quickest and most painless method of obtaining a B.A.T.F. permit and what are, if any, the limitation of the permit. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 6:31 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Glycerin and absolute alcohol Hi Ricardo, Ken, Marc and all As far as I know, sodium chloride cristals are naturaly anhidrous. It seems to me that this will not work. Sodium chloride is very hygroscopic (absorbs water). I'm interested to know how much water it will absorb before it becomes saturated. Mathewson provides some information on using salt in The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel (chapter 12). http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html A second method takes advantage of the fact that water will dissolve in most salts, but ethanol will not. Therefore, water can be removed (although not entirely) by filtering the alcohol/water through dry salt. Almost any 'hygroscopic' (water absorbing) material such as calcium salt, various sulphates, phosphates and similar materials will work. However, common rocksalt, such as used in water softeners is cheap and available. An apparatus such as described in Chapter 7 for sprouting malt can be used. Fill the drum or container with rocksalt. The alcohol/water is poured in at the top and filters down through the salt. Relatively water-free alcohol is collected through holes or a valve at the bottom of the container. Remember that the salt must be dry. After absorbing water from a certain amount of alcohol, the salt must be re-dried either in an oven or by spreading it out in the sun. This appeals because salt is cheap, ubiquitous and easily dried. But the point about how much alcohol will stick to the crystals is an interesting one. Mathewson first describes the industry method of mixing benzene with the ethanol to render it miscible with gasolene. Benzene's nasty stuff indeed, but it seems that some gasolene in the ethanol won't disturb the transesterification process, so no doubt some benzene wouldn't disturb it either. Benzene's probably easy to get and cheap - or at least it used to be (like quicklime!!). Mathewson says: A good system might be to use both of the methods described above. First, most of the water in the alcohol is removed by the salt method, and then the blend is prepared with benzene. The more water that can be removed from the alcohol, the less benzene will be needed. Benzene will have to be purchased (the cheapest technical grade is fine) and can be used only once. The rocksalt can be dried and used many times. FYI I tried to dehydrate 95% ethanol with Copper Sulphate, that has 5 mols H2O, previously dehydrated by calcination. It didn«t work. You need a lot of anhydrous salt and you loose a lot of alcohol sticked to the crystals. Later I thought to use anhydrous calcium chloride, but now there are several ideas discussed in this forum, that I think will work better. Are copper sulphate and calcium chloride more absorbent than sodium chloride? Which is the most absorbent salt? Marc's ref on glycerine is most interesting, though it brings us back to the original question of purifying the glyc. However, maybe simply boiling off the water content would work? Much easier than distilling the glycerine. The other method is using corn grits: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_grits.html But this, as with 3A zeolyte etc, means treating the vapour, not the liquid ethanol: ie, an add-on to the distillation process. Ref. the translation, Marc will do it much better !! I get the feeling Marc isn't mad about the idea, and who can blame him - or you, Ricardo! :-( Ah well, I guess it's a good thing for this to happen to us hegemonistic Anglophiles occasionally (often?), puts things in perspective, eh? Ricardo. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Glycerin and absolute alcohol By the way, Ken Provost, if you're reading this, salt (sodium chloride) is cheap and obtainable enough, and easy to dry. Any idea how much water a pound/kilo of salt would absorb? I read EVERYTHING :-)! Thx for reminding me -- I actually bought a big box of rock salt to play with, and it's been languishing in the pantry. I'll get on it this weekend -- it wouldn't have to be very efficient, considering the cost, as long as you don't lose too much alcohol just sticking to the crystals... :-) Good luck, look forward to the results. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
