Re: [biofuel] GM 3.5L V6 Diesel
Have been offered a GM V6 3.5litre diesel engine/gearbox combination to fit my Hilux. Can anyone give me some advice on the performance/reliability/spares situation for this engine. Have been told that the Holden petrol V6 is based on this engine, is this correct? regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble drying- big correction
- Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Like I said I haven't done this qualitatively before- so I don't know if the amount of water sufficient to form haze in the fuel is a sufficient mass of water for me to weigh on a .1g sensitivity scale. any ideas on what is the weight of the water if it is present at for instance 1200 ppm in a 100 ml sample of biodiesel? Mark snip 1200ppm in 100ml is 12/1,000,000ml ie.0.12ml, which will be equivalent to the smallest unit of sensativity on your ballance, very difficult to measure accurately. If you do try this use as light a containor for the BD as possible (beaker would be good). Also try to use a larger volume of BD up to the capacity of your scales in order to improve the accuracy. Regards Paul Gobert, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble drying- big correction
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I'm looking to see if there is a rudimentary way to check for water content that can be conducted by garden variety commoners of the biodiesel persuasion. Todd What about the old method used to test for water in underground bulk fuel tanks? Anhydrous copper sulphate, is a very pale blue powder, in contact with water it reverts to the hydrous form which is bright blue. Would be a qualitative test not quantitative. Perhaps the water content of std BD would be high enough to give a positive test. Worth trying. Regards Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
OT Philosophy (was Re: [biofuel] Re: Fish Farms Become Feedlots of the Sea 12-28-020
- Original Message - From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Me thinks part of the problem lies in the fact that, when god's/nature's engineers were designing our world, profit was not one of their design considerations. Well, not one with any large priority anyways. Curtis Agree with you there Curtis, falls under the category of what I call The three great destroyers of Rational thinking and Actions' Economics, Politics and Religion. Interestingly all man conceived disciplins. Hard to think of anything positive mankind has done for the earth. Aside from feeding nutrients back into the earth via our bodily wastes and waste bodies, are we capable of doing anything but meddling? Even these positive aspects are localised and segregated. The ultimate parasite. Not being morbid here, life is great, but our species has a lot to answer for Regards Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bottled water
- Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Most of the time, bottled water comes from the tap, and is simply run through a filter. People mistakenly believe bottled water is superior to tap water, but often, this is not the case. How right you are Robert, local dairy company decided to get into the bottled water game. Because the Dairy industry in Australia is controled by strict health regulations anything else that came out of the factory needed to be as well. A local bore was selected, the water was tested, milk tankers were filled and the water taken about 800km to a Mr. Juicey bottling plant. Sales were going well and the profit margin on the water was much higher than on milk. The manager of the Mr. Juicey plant told them they were mad he just filled his bottles from the town supply. RegardsPaul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel Hi Paul, Michael How do you maintain the heat during the processing hour, Paul? Keith as this is trully a bucket method of temporary production I don't maintain the 55 deg. The plastic bucket loses heat slowly. You're using an aqueous solution of catalyst to make methoxide? Yes Wouldn't draining off the glycerine as soon as possible also drain off some excess methanol? By draining off as soon as possible I mean after the final settling after last stirring, reaction should have gone as far as it can go by then without further heat and stirring. Methanol excess to reaction will have dispersed itself in both BD and glycerine. If there is to be no further reaction, the more excess methanol that comes off in the glycerine the better. And doesn't severe emulsification during washing indicate high levels of unconverted materials? That seems to be the general concensus, would say that the higher levels of alkali ensure better reaction, this of course could be specific to my production methods and trials, a more complete reaction process may produce the same results with lower levels of alkali. SG and viscosity testing won't necessarily give you an indication of that. No, the production of lower SG and viscosity was quoted as an observation of what also happens with higher than titration indicated alkali levels. Regards, Paul Gobert Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
- Original Message - From: Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel Thanks Paul, I'll try to follow that up. Currently in Thailand, we wash the BD made from stearin with almost indecent haste. Of course, if the skin comes from near the BD/glycerol interface, we should suspect methanol evaporating from the glycerol. So is the skin on the top of the BD or really on top of the glycerol? Others participants have already raised the matter of 1) whether it is BD soluble or 2) water soluble 3) Affected by separation time, 4) Disappears in the wash. Are we sure we are all talking about the same skin Thanks again Paul - there is nothing like a few facts to muck up a perfectly good theory! : - ) Michael Allen Michael, building new processor . At the moment I make BD in 10l batches in 15L plastic drums hand shaken. The mix is poured into 20L plastic pails where it is stirred intermittently over a period of an hour. The settling time for the glycerine reduces with each stir. As the drums are filled a thin skim/film forms on the surface of the BD. This film readily redissolves. (perhaps its polimerisation under the influence of the air ). The only problems I have had with the BD/glycerine interface is when using high levels of alkali (above titration levels) in the single stage alkali process. I like to drain the glycerine as soon as possible as extended contact of BD/alkaline glycerine tends to form a jelly like material at the interface which makes washing very difficult (emulsification). As long as the glycerine is drained off early, have found that higher than titration levels of alkali give easier washing. Prefer to use higher than titration levels of alkali, gives lower yield volume but a Bd with lower SG and viscosities. Hope that helps, Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
- Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long time. This would be washed out. Mark Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil and animal fat, but have not compared levels. Did notice however that the skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok. Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no need now. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
Michael, have noticed that raw biodiesel from tallow readily forms a skin as it cools, but the same BD after washing does not. Paul Gobert. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] London Taxi Cabs (was Diesel engines vs. gasoline engines)
- Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip The famous London Cab is a diesel car. The motor used in these cabs is I have been told the same as the Land Rover Defender marketed in Australia. Land Rover Australia are very vague about the intervals for changing the rubber timing belt. Successive statements reduce the mileage. The engines in the taxi cabs are fitted with timing gears for durability and reduced service. Paul Gobert Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: World Peace
- Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:57 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: World Peace --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], rpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hope you are joking Harmon. Thats escapism, lets work on making reality worthwhile. True reality is always worthwhile. Have you ever experienced it? Good question Harmon, IMHO reality is relative to who and where you are and the influences others have on your life, your attitude to it and your experiences amongst other things. I do know that reality cannot be found in a bottle, needle or pill. Was pulled back from death about 12 years ago by cortisone. Side effects include euphoria, made some instant decisions at that time that weren't always right though they seemed it to me then. With your experiences you would relate to how closeness to death gives you a different outlook on life and gets rid of a lot of the superficial junk that we humans seem to concern ourselves with. Can see what people get out of drink,drugs but its not for me. I'm lucky enough to have been born in a form and in a country that allows me freedom and the search for truth. (notice I said search, they don't always give you truth). At the moment I'm experiencing my own personal reality which may be right or may be wrong. Depends on who is calling the shots but hey thats their opinion. I'm not a christian but believe that the commandments are a pretty good code to live by if one wants to relate to fellow humans. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] World Peace
- Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I gotta chime in on this one. Firstly, human reality has ALWAYS included mind-altering herbs, fungi, drinks, etc. It's as much a part of being human to enjoy them as it is to enjoy, say, SEX! To call them escapist would be like call- sex escapist because of that rosy sense it can well, let's not overshare, here :-) Well I think you are drawing a long bow there Ken. A drug is defined as something that interferes with the bodies metabolism (have studied toxicology) Whilst sex generates pleasing hormonal secretions they are part of the normal processes of the human body. Not so in the case of a drug which in most cases is a poison which in moderate doses produces a reaction by the body. Secondly, many such experiences can offer powerful insights into the nature of reality itself, which many people would never otherwise notice in their humdrum daily lives. Yes but I question why they couldn't open themslves up to that without drugs Reality without some consciousness-expansion WOULD NOT be worthwhile.-K But does the consciousness-expansion come only with drugs. Notice how when we get enthusiastic about a new subject and concentrate on that information and perspective flows. Talk about drugs if you like but emotional and physical interaction with a good lady will do me just fine thank you. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: 2 stage method - was Re: END THIS THREAD NOW. - WAS Re: [biofuel] Politics
- Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I was thinking of using a large glass jar, but now I think about it I have an old electric frypan to heat the mix, control the temp, just need to work out a stirrer (maybe a small motor driving a pair of magnets, another pair of magnets in a piece of silicon tube to drop in the mix?? (get the jist?) Doug If thats an aluminium electric frypan be careful, the caustic/methoxide will eat the aluminium. Stirrer idea sounds good but if its the shallow type of frypan I'm thinking of there is a high bottom area to volume ratio and posibility of unagitated spots at edges. regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] World Peace
- Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] All we need is love -- all we need is to get the UN to promote psilocybic mushrooms and cannabis use with all it's might. And have all the worlds bombers converted into spray planes to dose combatants with a little omniscient LSD/DMSO combo. Hope you are joking Harmon. Thats escapism, lets work on making reality worthwhile. Regards Paul Gobert Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Aleks Kac's FOOLPROOF method
Ken, that picture puzzled me too, when using acid/base I usually get only a small amount of brownish deposit in the bottom of vessel, a bit more than the ammount of acid used. Guess this is an indication of how little transesterification takes place in the acid catalysed reaction. Have you had any problems with residual acidity after the acid stage knocking out some of the alkali in the second stage? I usually titrate and adjust alkali level as for single base stage. Regards, Paul Gobert - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] As interested as I am in the political discussion, I also have a very specific biodiesel question. In the section of J-to-F showing Aleks' acid-base method, picture 7 is labelled first-stage glycerine and shows a layer of glycerine under some biodiesel/oil combination. Was this a bit of fudging on his part, or maybe just a mislabelling? I've tried a lot of different ways to get a true TRANSesterification, with glycerine separation, using only conc. H2SO4 as a catalyst, and I've NEVER gotten it to work. Anybody out there ever had success as shown in picture 7 using only acid? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: titration with acid for testing of finished product pH?
- Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I'm actually more worried about soaps than about residual catalyst, as it's easier to wash out the catalyst, I think, than the soaps. I'm doing pH testing partly to figure out when to stop washing, as well as for the initial 'look' at what I've made in additin to several other tests. Can someone think of how to run this titration to give meaningful results (ie what pH should one look for, and what does it reference?), or is anyone out there already doing something like this? I'm lacking in a chemistry background so there's probably some really standard stuff I'm just unaware of. Is there anything about the presence of soaps that would throw off a titration like this? Girl Mark, pH of final wash water is a good guide. A couple of drops of universal indicator in a sample of the wash water will quickly tell the story. I aim for neutral which is a green colour. Universal indicator is a mixture of various indicators and changes colour from red through to purple over a wide pH range. Much easier than test strips pH meters etc Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: cold weather
- Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] spray some ether into the intake and you don't need to warm it. also be careful .. Steve Spence Steve have had bad experiences with ether for starting diesels. The stuff ignites before TDC causing all sorts of mechanical stresses on the motor. Origional motor in Toyota lasted 200,000km, it had been started on a few occasions on ether. By this time the rings were so shot that the engine was often running out of control on crankcase fumes. (the brand of oil could have been helping too. Engine was reconditioned, no ether used this time and ran for another 360,000km, using very little oil, until No. 3 bigend picked up. Most of my winter start problems (read occasional frosts for this part of Australia) were caused by a smokey engine, carbon coated glowplugs, no heat to precombustion chambers. Better solution clean glowplugs before winter. Even better solution run on BD instead of Distillate. Haven't had a problem for some years now. Regards, Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?
- Original Message - From: Camillo Holecek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry folks, could someone please enlighten me, why that is such an important topic to you what the glycerine is looking like (at room temp., I assume)? I thought, you all want to produce biodiesel in the first place. This is not to be sarcastic, I just would like to understand your motives. Camillo Holecek Camillo, Initially I was concerned with the tendency of glycerine to set solid overnight in my reaction vessel. Blocked drain tap necessitated bailing out BD and then digging out glycerine. For this and other reasons I now draw off the glycerine within a couple of hours of the reaction. Regards Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:02 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine? Pardon me, but this below is crap, is it not? It's the fatty acid portion that's saturated or unsaturated, not the glycerine portion. Or could this be the result of poor processing and an incomplete reaction? Thanks! Keith Just as important as the amount of FFA's is what the oil actually is made from. If the oil is normally solid at room temp such as tallow, the glycerine will go solid much quicker than glycerine from oil that is normally liquid at room temp such as canola. Even if it is new oil in both cases. Keith My experience with a variety of feedstocks bears out the above statement. Just made some BD from used tallow which titrated at 2ml 1% NaOH. Low acidity and the glycerine still set solid by the next day. A mixture of the same tallow plus soy oil plus hydrogenated vegetable oil gave glycerine which was liquid the next day . The saturation would as you say be related to the fatty acid portion of the molecule. The tendency to solidify could have something to do with the increased chain length of the tallow giving rise to higher melting point byproduct contaminants in the glycerine. But this is only a guess. As Todd posted high FFA WVO/WAF need a higher level of NaOH to neutralise them resulting in increased soap levels. A comparison of glycerines from both the acid/base method and the single stage base method (from same High FFA feedstock) would indicate whether the FFA neutralisation by NaOH led to solidification of the glycerine. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul Keith, Thank you for your response. Paul: I tried slaked lime on some of our high FFA crude palm oil and had similar results to Keith. Leaving it overnight to settle gave me only about 15% recovery of the oil. Part of the problem is the very high viscosity of our CPO which is rather like mayonnaise even at 30 degC. Things just don't settle in this goo unless you heat the brew. If you heat it does it settle? We did. To 80C. But separation was not good: Bottom layer soap, middle layer unreacted lime, thin top layer oil. Avoiding excess Ca(OH)2 would certainly help. Terry's suggestion of quicklime has some merit because it takes the water out of the gloop as it esterifies the FFA but it still has such a low density that it doesn't settle for us. We probably need barium oxide or maybe something made from spent nuclear fuel rods! snip Michael, Revisited the neutralisation with slaked lime. Had a batch of BD which had turned to soap (too much NaOH). Treated it with acetic acid to liquify. Ended up with BD +FFA. Have had this batch sitting on garden lime for a couple of months now. Titrated it and acidity had not changed.Heated the mix with plenty of stirring, held at 100 deg C for over one hour. Next day titration was the same as before treatment. Decanted and retreated with reagent grade Ca(OH)2 Success this time titration dropped from 56 drops to three drops 1% NaOH. Into the tank it goes. Dug out the bag of garden lime and discovered the problem. Contents is 80% calcium carbonate, not a scerick of Ca(OH)2 to be seen in the bloody thing. So much for garden lime. CPO certainly sounds like a challenge to work with. snip Terry's suggestion of quicklime has some merit because it takes the water out of the gloop as it esterifies the FFA but it still has such a low density that it doesn't settle for us. We probably need barium oxide or maybe something made from spent nuclear fuel rods! snip Under impression that esterification by alkalis was way too slow to be practical. Have you had any success with this on other oils? Will repeat test on neutralising high FFA WVO with Ca(OH)2 just to confirm previous results. Hey wait a minute, Michael and Keith, both you blokes are in the northern hemisphere. This technique probably only works upside down. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Hydrogen Economy greatly overrated, biomass underrated...
snip Another hydrogen problem I haven't heard discussed is that it contracts chemically 1/3 on burning according to H2 + 1/2 O2 [1.5 moles or voumes] === H2O [1 mole] by contrast, methane gets full value, since CH4 + 2 O2 [3 moles] === CO2 + 2 H2O [3moles] snip Perhaps this could be so if the H2o existed as water vapour. I think it more likely that it would exist as steam. Steam occupies about 1000 x the volume of the water it is produced from. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: 9-20-02 CBS 48 Hours Episode on Superbugs: Anti-Biotic-Resistant Bugs
- Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip It has been a little known problem ( most cases in hospitals ) since the 70's ( I heard about it in the early to mid 80's), only in the last few years has it become more prevalent due in part that anti-biotics have become such a part of every day life in the last 5-10 years. One of the biggest problems aside from overprescription of antibiotics is miss-use of antibiotics by those to whom they are prescribed. An example here is the failure to complete a course of prescribed antibiotics. Patient feels better so stops taking antibiotics because of side effects. Bacterial infection not completely killed off at this stage so conditions favour the growth of resistant strains. I remember thjat there was concern for this very reason in America in the 70s/80s?. Tuberculosis was rapidly outstripping antibiotic development. Walk down the soap section in the supermarket and you will see at least half a dozen that claim 'anti-biotic' abilities, for that matter, look at the Lysol advertisements, they say out right anti-bacterial action - kills 99.9% of germs (what about that .1% that it does not kill?). Go to the first aid area of the same store, and you will see dozens of first aid cream's, gel's, and spray's that are anti-bacterial in nature. Anti-bacterial is quite different to antibiotic. Antibiotics inhibit the growth of bacteria, anti-bacterial kill/poison the bacteria and probably us too if we ingested them. My Doctor tells the story of his father (also a Doctor) stationed in New Guinea during WW2. Air crews were required to be at readiness in their bombers for long hours. Blazing hot sun, cramped badly ventilated planes, plenty of perspiration by crews. The fastidious ones showered many times a day, looking down on those who showered once a day. Guess which group suffered the most with skin infections etc. My Doc suggests avoiding medicated anti-bacterial soap for the same reason. Modern farm practices such as crowded and unsanitary condition's contribute to disease ( think the middle ages and the plague ), so the farmers give medicine to prevent illness. Certain anti-biotics are also known to help animals gain weight faster so to get the fastest weight gain possible the animals are fed these anti-biotics by the pound. These same anti-biotics get to humans in the form of hamburgers, chicken, and pork. This has grown from almost nothing in the late 60's early 70's to a multi-million ( possibly billion ) dollar industry today. As with all aspects of nature things are often quite complex especially when uninformed man meddles. Usually for one of the three great destroyers of rational thinking and action.IMHO Economics, Politics and Religion. Worked for many years in a Dairy Foods processing factory Lab. At one stage there was much noise made about lysteria bacteria. Blamed for spontaneous abortion I think. Very sensitive issue, so regulatory authority, set standards, comming down heavily on any factory found to test positive. Ironic thing was that lysteria is a fairly sensitive bacteria and its growth is suppressed by the normal bacterial mix present. However make everything squeaky clean and the listeria has free reign to flourish. Much the same as when herbicide is sprayed, what grows back first, weeds. Some of the cleanest factories were under threat of closure. snip The way anti-biotics work, is they poison the bacteria. See above, inhibit the growth of the bacteria.. Think of the bacteria as ultra small rats, and the doctor as the exterminator, the doctor prescribes the anti-biotic which poisons the bacteria. Like rats, if a bacteria does not get a full dose of the poison, they become used to it, and it then doesn't work like it should even in higher doses. This should not be able to happen with phages, because they look upon bacteria as food. Think of the bacteria as micro passenger pigeons that were hunted to extinction and the phages as the human hunters of the pigeons. A phages lives (if you can call it that) to kill bacteria, they infect the bacteria with their own DNA then uses the bacteria own body to multiply new phages inside, and when the new phages burst out the bacteria is dead. Unlike the anti-biotic poison, the bacteria do not have a chance to build up an immunity. Used to have to work around Phages in the cheese manufacturing section of the Dairy Factory. They tend to build up. If you used the same culture for subsequent batches of cheese there would come a time when you would get a dead vat. Either cultures are rotated so that subsequent ones are not affected by the phages specific to the previous or a mix of culture strains is used, if one strain gets knocked out the others do the job. Dead vats can also be caused by residual antibiotics from treatment of cows suffering from mastitis using antibiotics, antibiotic is usually stained blue. This shows up in milk, alerts
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello again Paul I tried slaked lime to remove FFAs as you suggested. The filtering is a pain, and the result wasn't very good. It did take out some FFA, but it didn't neutralize the oil, though I used an excess. I didn't titrate it afterwards, maybe I should have, but that would have been yet another step, and I think I'd have been titrating residual lime as much as anything. Unless I'd washed it out, which might not have been too effective, and yet another step. Whatever, it didn't reduce the FFA sufficiently - I tried to transesterify it with the basic amount of lye, 3.5 gm/litre, but it wasn't nearly enough. I didn't continue with it after that to find out how much would have been enough, didn't seem to be any point, but I reckon it would have needed twice that much or more. Keith, looking back through my records I see that I used a mixing time of about 1 hour. Agree that filtering could be a problem. Details below. BATCH #1013 Date 22-01-02 AIM To determine the potential for neutralisation of FFA in WVO using Calcium hydroxide (lime). BACKGROUND. FFA react with NaOH to form soap. This can cause wash problems and reduced yield with WVO high in FFA. When reacted with Ca(OH)2 FFA will form soap scum, which is insoluble in the Wash water. FEEDSTOCK Reward WVO, well used very dark. Titration 140 drops =9.3ml of 1% NaOH METHOXIDE nil REACTION VESSEL 2L beaker, PROCESSING 1L of oil heated to 120 deg C. Neutralisation of the FFA would have required 9.3g NaOH/Litre WVO. 9.3g NaOH is equivalent to 8.6g Ca(OH)2 10g Ca(OH)2 mixed to a slurry and added to hot oil. Stirrer /hotplate used. Small pellet (only one available). Set at almost full speed. Temperature maintained at 100 deg C for 1 hour. REACTION PROGRESS WVO clear but dark brown. When lime slurry added there was some froathing as it was stirred in. (briskly incorporated with thermometer.) WVO + lime at 100 deg C clear dark liquid. Small ammount of material sticking to bottom of beaker, slightly tacky, stirred back in using thermometer. Cooled to 30 deg for acidity testing, solution turned murky and viscous somewhere above 50 degrees. Appearance of a pale gravey. Acidity gravey' 15 drops (added in 5 drop lots). Filtered gravey 13 drops (more accurate) GLYCERINE UNWASHED BD WASHING FILTERING CONCLUSION The Level of FFA in WVO can be substantially reduced by the addition of lime and stirring at a temperature of 100 deg C for 1 hour. FOLLOWUP. Try to achieve the same effect at lower temp/time levels. Copyright Paul Gobert 2001. The caustic refining step is much simpler - no heating, no filtering, nothing extra - and it works well. Also I reckon the soapstock is useful, but I don't think the deposit the lime leaves you with is useful. I fine-tuned the caustic refining step a bit and got 80% production from oil titrating at 9.15 ml. I can only get 75% production from that oil with a single-stage base process, and this is much easier. It's a lot quicker and simpler than acid-base - though again acid-base gives higher production and uses less lye. But lye's cheap, and 80% is okay for dirty oil like this. Terry suggested CaO, quicklime, which is not easy to come by these days, though I do have some. Maybe I'll give it a try. But actually I'm quite satisfied with this caustic refining step - what Michael more correctly called saponification-transesterification. Definitely preferable to single-stage base for high-FFA oils, and a useful alternative to acid-base. Best wishes Keith Given the FFA level of your oil I think that you are doing very well to get such high yields. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Speedier BioD Washing
- Original Message - From: Craig Pech [EMAIL PROTECTED] After waiting forever for BioD to separate during washing, I tried a trick that was identified for separating ethanol - Cooling / freezing it. The freezing attempt failed. After moving the sample to the refrigerator (about 38 degrees F) - it appeared to work! I left it in overnight - about 8 hours. I have no idea why it worked, but the separation appears to be clean and very effective. Comments? Craig Craig, another benefit of refrigeration/freezing is that it precipitates out any unreacted tallow (could these be tallow esters?) which otherwise stay in solution/suspension only to separate a week or so later or following a cold snap. Gives a good guide as to the thoroughness of conversion, a test batch frozen and thawed will reveal whether or not all of the WVO mix was converted to BD/glyc. If there is a whitish deposit on thawing use more caustic in subsequent batches from same feedstock. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 'muddy' WVO?
- Original Message - From: Neil McAnally [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm real new to this (biodiesel); just making small batches to run in the Rabbit. I picked up about 4 gallons of WVO today, it's liquid at 50d.F, but very murky, almost like it has mud in it. What's the preferred treatment for this stuff? Thanks! Neil Neil sounds like tallow contamination from whatever was cooked in the oil. First ensure that there is no water in the oil, heat to above 110 deg C, careful of splashing. Methoxide should be 250ml methanol per litre of WVO with slightly ore( say 1g / L) than the titration ammount of NaOH. Oil at 55 deg C, vigorous mixing whilst methoxide is slowly added. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way Hello Paul snip - Original Message - Paul wrote Mix the lime into the WVO/BD and heat with occasional stirring to 100 deg C. The lime appears to dissolve in WVO as heated but is probably just held in suspension. Cool decant and filter. No problems with ammount of lime just use excess. Forgot to mention that it is best to make a slurry of the lime and a small volume of WVO, then add this to WVO. Thanks Paul, I'll try that. But this caustic refining step is so easy I'm quite satisfied with it, and there's no need for heat, for filtering, or for anything you haven't already got. ... just use excess - about how much per litre? Be guided by the titration. 1g NaOH is equivalent in reaction to 1.08g Ca(OH)2 Would much rather go acid/base with feedstock with FFA content this high, Sure, as I said, but a lot of people don't do acid-base. Also, acid-base doesn't like this particular oil, it has a lot of salt in it (tempura oil). Hot pre-washing solves that problem, but that then makes the acid-base process a lot more trouble than this, and a lot more energy use, so you're left to choose between much more time and hassle for the acid-base advantages, or a quick and easy way like this, and there's not much in it. Especially since I think recovered FFAs are useful, not wastage. You're not using more methanol, the extra lye isn't expensive, so it's really just some extra phosphoric, no big deal, as against no sulphuric. Interesting I didn't think of the salt content. less wastage/recovery It's an alternative - better than straight single-stage base for oil like this, and while it won't get as a high a production rate as acid-base, and it uses more catalyst and gives you more co-products, it's very quick and simple, and the product is good. and acid stage allows alcohols other than methanol or ethanol to be used. Isopropanol for instance has the potential to reduce cloudpoint. Have you tried the acid-base process with isopropynol? That'll make branched alkyl esters, low cloud-point yes, but I don't know of anyone that's had any success with isopropynol or butyl other than with enzymes, though I do know people who've tried. Reference previously posted in Cracking thread, Foglia et al, for instance. Pressure maybe. Have to dig through my records, intended to try acid/base with isoprop in acid stage but can't remember whether I got around to it. isopropanol definitely doesn't seem to want to work for transesterification. I think Aleks was working on BD using either isopropanol or butanol. Best wishes Keith Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip You settle it with acetic acid? I think the resultant FFAs just dissolve back into the biodiesel then. I might not have been too clear here Keith. On occasions when I have been a bit heavy with the caustic I have produced a BD which set to a jelly. Treating this jelly with Glacial acetic acid breaks up the soap into FFA and releases the biodiesel from the jelly. Only problem is as you mentioned we end up with a mixture of BD/FFA/excess acetic acid. Excess acetic acid will wash out. The FFA content can be reduced using slaked lime to enable the BD to be used as automotive fuel. Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuels-biz] High FFA oils - another way snip I found an easier way though: two-stage base-base, only the first stage doesn't use methanol, it uses (horror!) water. Mix the titration amount of NaOH, in this case 9.15 grams per litre of oil, with 40 ml of water per litre of oil. Add the dissolved NaOH to the oil (room temperature), stir gently by hand until thoroughly mixed. Settle overnight. This leaves soapstock at the bottom and some gunk floating on the top. The water is apparently in the soapstock. Filter to remove soapstock and gunk - no need for fine filtering, fine steel mesh will do (like a fine tea strainer). Now process as usual for virgin oil - 3.5 grams NaOH per litre of oil, 20% methanol, 55 deg C, good and prolonged agitation as usual. Good product, production rate in this case 73%, slightly less than a normal single-stage, but it's a much easier process that won't go wrong, and it's nice not to have to make such strong methoxide as a straight single-stage process would require with this oil, 13.65 grams of lye per litre oil, or more like 14 grams (needs a bit of excess lye). snip Slaked lime (CaOH2)can also be used to remove the FFA from WVO or high FFA biodiesel rescued from overuse of NaOH (gel) with acetic acid. Mix the lime into the WVO/BD and heat with occasional stirring to 100 deg C. The lime appears to dissolve in WVO as heated but is probably just held in suspension. Cool decant and filter. No problems with ammount of lime just use excess. Would much rather go acid/base with feedstock with FFA content this high, less wastage/recovery and acid stage allows alcohols other than methanol or ethanol to be used. Isopropanol for instance has the potential to reduce cloudpoint. Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biodiesel/moonshine.
- Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is true; drinking concentrated alcohol (such as straight out of a still) is a good way to burn your throat, since it will pull water right out of the cells lining the throat. Sure will. Worked in a pharmaceutical/vetinary products QC lab for a while. Parbendezole was used in Worm Guard products. To analyse the stuff it was dissolved in a solution of 2% HCl in Absolute Ethanol. One day sucked a bit too hard on pipette whilst doing dilutions and half filled mouth with alcohol mix. Spat it out awful quick and rinsed mouth with water. That night the inner layer of skin from my mouth peeled away in one piece whilst I was eating. Fun times. We won't even go into the problems I had with cloths permeated with cheap perfumes I analysed (for use in suntan lotion etc). Regards, Paul Gobert Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Making methanol and lye -
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 4:32 PM Subject: Making methanol and lye - was Re: [biofuel] Another biodieselfrom ethanol story snip It got a bit garbled in transmission, not sure what this character might have been: #8594 Keith looks like the mystery garble should have been an arrow or gives/yields. ie : 2 Cl -- --- Cl2 (gas) + 2 e -- (electrons) Whether the arrows are oneway or two way I'm not sure in all cases. Then below should read ... Consider the electrolysis of a water solution of sodium chloride (common table salt). At the anode the product is, as one might expect, chlorine gas. anode : 2 Cl -- --- Cl2 (gas) + 2 e -- (electrons) Bubbles of hydrogen form at the cathode; the solution immediately surrounding this electrode becomes strongly basic. This evidence indicates that a water molecule rather than a sodium ion is being reduced : cathode : 2 H2O + 2 e -- ---H2 (g) + 2 OH -- It appears that the water molecule is more readily reduced than the Na+ ion. This is entirely reasonable when you consider the addition of sodium metal to water results in the spontaneous reaction : 2 Na (solid) + 2 H2O --- 2 Na+ + H2 (g) + 2 OH -- Thus, one can then argue that any sodium ions produced by electrolysis would immediately react with water to produce H2 molecules and OH -- ions so the net reaction is that listed for the cathode. To obtain the overall reaction for the electrolysis of a water solution of sodium chloride, combine the anode and cathode reactions to give : 2 Cl -- + 2 H2O --- Cl2 (gas) + H2 (gas) + 2 OH -- One effect of this cell reaction is the replacement of the chloride ions originally present by an equal number of hydroxide ions. Consequently, evaporation of the solution remaining after electrolysis yields a residue of sodium hydroxide: electrolysis : 2 Cl -- + 2 H2O ---Cl2 (g) + H2 (g) + 2 OH -- evaporation : 2 Na+ + 2 OH -- --- 2 NaOH (solid) --- 2 Na+ + 2 Cl -- + 2 H2O --- 2 NaOH (s) + Cl2 (g) + H2 (g) The greater part of the sodium hydroxide and almost all the chlorine made is prepared by the electrolysis of aqueous sodium chloride; hydrogen is an important by-product. In electrolytic oxidation the number of electrode materials (anode) is more limited than in reduction processes. Since, in general, it is important that the anode should be attacked as little as possible during electrolysis, we are confined to the use of platinum, iridium, palladium, carbon, iron, and nickel for processes that take place in alkaline solution, and to the platinum metals and carbon for those carried out in acid solution. Anodes of lead dioxide may be employed in sulfuric acid solutions. Of these anodes, iron and nickel have the lowest oxygen over-voltages. For general work, the most suitable anodes are: (1) lead, for sulfate solutions; (2) Acheson graphite, for chloride solutions; and (3) pure nickel or a high-nickel steel for alkaline solutions. If memory serves me right (which is less often these days) in the commercial process mercury is used for one of the electrodes. It runs beneath a molten bath of sodium chloride. As the sodium is formed it dissolves in the mercury. The mercury is circulated through the cell and into another reaction vessel where water is added to the mercury. The sodium metal forms sodium hydroxide and hydrogen with the water. Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Making methanol and lye -
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Making methanol and lye - Hi Paul It got a bit garbled in transmission, not sure what this character might have been: #8594 Keith looks like the mystery garble should have been an arrow or gives/yields. Um, yes. Duh! I don't mind admitting it all looks like fly-shit to me. Well, not quite, I can follow it up to a point but easily get lost. Should've guessed the arrows though. Wouldn't worry too much about it Keith its all in house stuff. Each discipline has its own jargon, show me some shorthand or typesetting instructions and I wouldn't have a clue what it was all about. Thats what we are all here for, to pool our knowledge, help each other out and bounce ideas off each other. ie : 2 Cl -- --- Cl2 (gas) + 2 e -- (electrons) chloride ions gas electrons (chloride ions as existing in the ionic state in sodium chloride solution) Whether the arrows are oneway or two way I'm not sure in all cases. Then below should read ... Consider the electrolysis(application of an electric current via two electrodes) of a water solution of sodium chloride (common table salt). At the anode (the negative electrode)the product is, as one might expect, chlorine gas. anode : 2 Cl -- --- Cl2 (gas) + 2 e -- (electrons) Bubbles of hydrogen form at the cathode;(the positive electrode) the solution immediately surrounding this electrode becomes strongly basic. This evidence indicates that a water molecule rather than a sodium ion is being reduced : cathode : 2 H2O + 2 e -- ---H2 (g) + 2 OH -- (quite a bit lost in the translation I'm afraid ,the hydroxide ion should be represented as OH with a superscript minus after it. It appears that the water molecule is more readily reduced than the Na+ ion. This is entirely reasonable when you consider the addition of sodium metal to water results in the spontaneous reaction : 2 Na (solid) + 2 H2O --- 2 Na+ + H2 (g) + 2 OH -- Not far wrong about that spontaneous reaction. Teachers at my school used to perform what they called the Red Sea Experiment. A paper boat would be constructed by one of the students. The boat would be floated on water in a large glass phneumatic trough (fancy words used to describe glass dish about 30cm diam and 15cm high usually used when collecting gas in a gas jar by displacement of water). Some phenolphalein indicator had been mixed into the water previously. This indicator is colourless in acidic or neutral solutions but turns bright pink/purple in alkaline solution. A piece of sodium was then placed in the boat. As the paper absorbed water the boat would sink lower in the water. Bilge water would react with the sodium. The reaction gave off hydrogen and generated much heat causing the hydrogen to burst into flames. This in turn set fire to the boat which would burn to the waterline exposing more of the sodium to water The reaction also created alkaline conditions (the sodium hydroxide produced) within the water causing the phenolphthalein to turn bright pink/purple. Very spectacular when it works right but the problem is the unpredictable burn rate of the sodium. The reaction rate is to a large extent dependent upon the skill of the boat builder. Often the reaction is so fierce that the sodium is liquified and hydrogen forms beneath/within it creats explosions which scatter burning liquid sodium for some distance. Very spectacular unless you happen to be in range. Some of our labs have burn marks on the ceiling as testimony of that little bit too much sodium. Experiment has been banned by head of department for safety reasons. Ah all the excitement has gone out of chemistry these days. We all learn by mistakes especially memorable ones, just so long as we are still around to remenber. Regards Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] about biodiesel.......
OK gang, I am assuming that your reaction produced two liquid phases, clear BD on top and dark glycerine on the bottom. Firstly the odour from the product should be quite different to that from the origional oil. The oil, if fresh/unused will have a weak oily smell, the BD will have a strong aromatic sweet esterlike smell. The volume of BD should be roughly equal to the ammount of oil/fat used (unless an excess of catalyst has been used.). The volume of glycerine should be roughly equal to the volume of alcohol used (same proviso applies.) Specific gravity of the starting and finished liquids is one test you could do to verify the conversion. Use an analytical ballance and a 100ml volumetric flask. Tare the flask on the ballance, fill the flask to the graduated mark with the liquid to be tested and reweigh Divide the weight in grams by 100. For vegetable oils the results will be around 0.92 and above, for biodiesel expect results in the range 0.86 to 0.89 depending on the nature of the feedstock and the completeness of the reaction. Another test you can run is the relative viscosities of the two liquids. Use a 100ml bulb pipette. Fill the pipette so that the liquid is well above the graduated mark. Clamp the pipette vertically and using a stopwatch time from when the liquid level passes the graduation mark untill the exit stream turns into drops. The repeatability of this test is uncanny. There will be a marked difference in the readings for feedstock and product. Some typical results are: Water 25.9 sec, Petroleum diesel 30.3, SAE 20 grade auto transmission fluid 130 sec. Vegetable oils usually run around 140 seconds with BD around 35 seconds. These figures are for temperatures around 25 deg C. Viscosity is temperature dependent so the liquids being compared should be at the same temperature. Hope that helps, I work as a Scientific Assistant at a large country High School in north eastern Australia. Each year I have the honour of demonstrating biodiesel making and talking about biofuels to the grade 10 classes. Usually end up by demonstrating my vehicle running on normal diesel, (black smoke and odour evident) then on biodiesel (cleaner exhaust much more pleasant smell) and finally some heated vegetable oil. One of the senior class teachers is keen to introduce a module into the organic chemistry section where students prepare a quantity of BD, wash it and run it through a stationary engine. If I can be of any further help feel free to contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] or through this group. I'm sure a lot of people will be interested in your progress. Regards Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: black_wing_sephiroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 6:46 PM Subject: [biofuel] about biodiesel... We are a bunch of highschool students who have decided to try making biodiesel as our investigatory project. we have successfully carried out the the procedure, which resulted in the production of a liquid (kinda looks like vinegar), but don't know if it's biodiesel or not. err, we don't really want to put it into any engine yet, until we're sure what it is. your help will be greatly appreciated. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
