[Biofuel] Methanol and PVC compatability
I am trying to set up a methanol recovery still for my appleseed reactor and was wondering if a PVC tank made from a sealed 6 diameter tube would be acceptable. According to a chemical compatibility chart I found it says that PVC is okay to use with methanol but I wonder. Is the reason steel and not PVC recommended for the appleseed is because of the heat? In which case it should be okay for this application. I am planning on using a reversed compressor to provide the suction through the tank to copper tubing in cold water from the hotwater tank vent. Thanks for any thoughts and input. Steve __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol and PVC compatability
No, I understand I need to drain off the fuel first to the wash tank and then recover the methanol from the glycerol by product only. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to set up a methanol recovery still for my appleseed reactor and was wondering if a PVC tank made from a sealed 6 diameter tube would be acceptable. According to a chemical compatibility chart I found it says that PVC is okay to use with methanol but I wonder. Is the reason steel and not PVC recommended for the appleseed is because of the heat? In which case it should be okay for this application. I am planning on using a reversed compressor to provide the suction through the tank to copper tubing in cold water from the hotwater tank vent. Thanks for any thoughts and input. Steve Are you planning to recover the methanol at the end of the process before separating the by-product? You'll probably get a reverse reaction if you do. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Any one near Deland, Florida?
Anyone who would like to team up in making a bio-diesel in this area? Let me know! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody in central Florida making biodiesel?
Hey, I'm in Deland, FL. If you (or anyone else) are near by in central Florida lets talk about joining forces! Steve --- Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Since i have several trucks, and a tractor that run on diesel was looking at whether anyone near me makes biodiesel and seeing how you are making, etc. Thanks, Where in Florida are you? I'm in St. Petersburg. Ward Oil in Tampa has biodiesel, but I forget who their manufacturer is. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Thanks Rob! Those are some excellent links with good overview points. I'll try to incorporate some of that in my next talk. Tonight's presentation to the Sierra Club went extremely well. They let me ramble on for over an hour while interrupting many times to ask some excellent questions. Except for one gadfly (what happens to the sodium or potassium in the wash water? Won't it contaminate drinking water or fields...) every one was extremely positive. In fact one guy with business and political connections thought I was thinking too small when I proposed a coop type partnership. He suggested I approach Stetson University (yes, the one started by the hat guy here in Deland, FL) business school for a business development grant or even the county council to fuel the local school buses etc. He even thought that the University would love to jump all over a green project and will approach the University president! We might even get a lot of student interest and support similar to Piedmont and UNC. Three of us are meeting this coming Monday night here in Deland to plot strategy. If anyone out there would like to join us, just let me know! Thanks again! Steve --- rob crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi steven hakan falk recently posted a useful link in reply to the hybrid vehicle thread. the link is: http://energysavingnow.com/biofuels/dieseltech.shtml at the bottom of the page is another link to a talk given by an exec of Bosch USA that discusses the impact on U.S. fuel consumption and pollution if the U.S. increased the percentage of diesel passenger vehicles. currently, one percent of U.S. new vehicle sales are diesel. he looks at the impact if the U.S. went to forty and eighty percent diesel-equipped new vehicle sales by 2010. quite interesting. perhaps you could extrapolate to biodiesel from his numbers. it might help you check your numbers for your presentation to the sierra club. good luck, rob steven mesibov wrote: Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Steve I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. :-) If you mention the D-word there the sky will fall on your head. Actually, if you can even get them to listen, you're doing very well! Good for you. Others here have tried and got nowhere. Which might be why it's often known here as Club Sierra. If you find accurate data on the amount of WVO available in the US, let alone it's fate, then again you're doing much better than anyone else here has done. (Please let us know!) The best we can do is that it's about 2 or 3 billion gallons a year, and that about 10% of it is accounted for, which is about average for the OECD countries. Estimates we've seen for the US, the UK and other industrialised countries vary by up to a factor of 10. Which is quite an eye-opener in itself. If you can't get accurate figures, that very fact is worth presenting - why not? Yet we're supposed to pretend that government or anyone else is taking biofuels and climate change seriously? I can see you're trying to answer the usual question of whether there'll be enough biofuels. We tend to think it's the wrong question. Enough for what? To replace current fossil-fuel use? Or some estimate of future use, based on projections of current growth rates? That's what the US DoE has done in its estimates for biodiesel expansion. Why would current growth rates be sustainable, no matter what fuel was used? Current usage rates aren't sustainable either. The related question is How much biofuels can we grow? The answer, based on the same fallacy, is usually, Not enough, so let's just forget the whole thing. People have said this is a tactic used to dismiss alternatives, picking them off this way one by one - as if current energy supply is dependent on only one source, only one technology. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and the decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologie in combination as the local circumstances demand. That makes for rather a different prospect for WVO's role in future fuel supplies. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Again, wrong question. Any number you get would be meaningless. Please have a look at these previous messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37289/ Re: [biofuel] Biofuels and sustainability http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? HTH Best Keith Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing with circulating pump
Just doing my long range planning and wanted to understand washing a bit better. If the conversion process is complete (acid/base etc.) would it be possible to safely perform the washing more rapidly than mist or bubble methods by using a circulating pump with more agitation? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Jet Fuel
I just got this response to a friend of mine. He is now an assistant professor and ground school instructor at Embry Riddle University, Daytona Beach, FL. Doesn't sound like everything is on the up and up for overflow in the fill hose idea. Steve Steve: This does not sound right to me. When I was a student at Embry Riddle, I worked for 2 summers at a large airport fueling Jets. I drove a huge fueling truck that carried 20,000 gal of jet fuel. I pulled up to the jet, got out of the truck, grounded my truck to the plane and fueled the plane. I recorded how many gallons it took. I was also responsible for re-filling the fuel truck when it was empty from the storage tanks. We NEVER had to empty hoses. So I am at a loss to explain the other person's statement that you can run on line overflows. There simply is no such animal. There is no waste. Fuel is simply too expensive to have any waste. If you emptied the lines then you have air in the system and that would cause flow problems. If this guy is running on line overflow waste, then he is stealing it. The other part of this that does not ring true is the regulations impossed on aviation businesses by the EPA. They are unbelievablly strick. Embry Riddle has to account for EVERY DROP of fluids is uses to conduct bussiness. They stopped the practice of draining the sumps and throwing the fuel on the ground. It was beginning to show up in soil samples. Fuel, oil, hydrolic fluid, cleaning fluid, etc etc. has to be 100% accounted for or else heavy fines are assesed. Hope this helps Tom --- towcloud9 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How did you find out about this? Greg H. A good friend of mine is an airplane mechanic in a small airport. They mostly work on small planes, but the commercial jets get filled by their company. While filling, ther's usually a gallon or more of overflow left in the fill hose that has to be emptied. It adds up. My buddy has been running on the airplane fuel in his Toyota for years. He's had to replace the head gasket 3 times, but has almost 400,000 on it running airplane fuel! (No, his truck wouldn't pass CA emissions). Unfortunately it's a 55 min drive for me to get it weekly,but I think it'd be worth it. Thanks for your replies! I might be able to purchase bioD locally, anyone know what a good mix would be? 50/50? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
Todd, Thanks for the thoughts. I had totally ignored the left over moisture from the washing on the next reaction batch. A follow up thought: If the reaction is complete (say with an acid/base process) would not pump mixing be just or more effective than mist or bubble washing? Even though the motor would take more power, wouldn't the wash occur more rapidly leaving the energy balance a wash? Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, There are a number of good reasons to not use a reactor as a wash vessel. 1) Water contamination during reaction stages. 2) Expended time evacuating a reactor of all water prior to reaction stages. 3) Undersized vessel for water washes. (110 gallon reactor yields ~91 gallons fuel, leaving only enough room for 19 gallons of water, erego the introduction of flush washing, aka mist washing) 4) Mist washing in such a set-up generally doesn't include separation/settling of micro-droplets of fuel from the wash water, leaving some fuel to be discarded with the wash. Could probably come up with another half-dozen associated/downstream problems. But those are the predominant ones. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches From steven mesibov: FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DATE: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:19:32 -0700 (PDT) SUBJECT: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches Keith, Todd, et. al., I have read so much on the need for washing and the different methods and on the fact that violent washing is okay if you process correctly that it just occurred to me: Why not use the reaction vessel for washing as well as the initial mixing? Would pump washing (especially if you used something like Lyle's at Piedmont Static In-Line Mixer by KoFlo) be acceptable? It would certainly save on having another large container for small operations. Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Brian Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, Good for you! but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. People who say bubblewashing's too violent and set off on a quest for ever-gentler washing methods (eg mist washing) have taken a wrong turn before they start. Gentle washing techniques only mask the real problem, which is that the stuff isn't processed properly in the first place, they need to improve their processing. Emulsification doesn't normally happen with well-processed fuel. It's caused by either (or probably both) too much soap and poor conversion, leaving diglycerides and monoglycerides, which are emulsifiers. If your fuel's properly made you won't be able to emulsify it no matter how violently you agitate it. That is what you should be aiming for. See Emulsification and Emulsion Explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html#emuls So, some suggestions. First, take about 150ml of your finished, unwashed fuel and do this with it: Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Let us know what happens. Second, you can bubblewash it, in a 2-litre PET bottle. From Todd: You can use the pop-up cap found on water bottles at your grocer as the valve for drainage. This turns any PET bottle into a separative funnel. It takes a little practice to get the valve to trickle properly, but it does work superbly. More details on how that works here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/13265/ You know those pop-up caps? Maybe made for cyclists or something. We've used something a little different (I think), a screw-on pop-up cap with a straw through the middle that goes right down to the bottom of the bottle, with an air-inlet gap around the straw, and the cap closing both the straw and the air-inlet. Do your bubblewash, remove the air-stone and air-pipe from the pump, screw on the pop-up cap, turn the bottle upside down and allow to settle. To drain off the settled water, hold the bottle (still upside down) over the sink or something, lift the cap; the water comes out the air-inlet gap, air goes up the straw to the top (bottom) of the bottle, and draining is smooth without any glug-glugging that'll splash and prevent a clean separation. If you can't find something like this you could easily rig it with some thin air-pipe and epoxy putty. If you can't find an air-stone small enough to fit the neck of the PET
Re: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
This email response seems to have gotton lost in the wash ;-) so I figured I send it again. Steve Todd, Thanks for the thoughts. I had totally ignored the left over moisture from the washing on the next reaction batch. A follow up thought: If the reaction is complete (say with an acid/base process) would not pump mixing be just or more effective than mist or bubble washing? Even though the motor would take more power, wouldn't the wash occur more rapidly leaving the energy balance a wash? Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, There are a number of good reasons to not use a reactor as a wash vessel. 1) Water contamination during reaction stages. 2) Expended time evacuating a reactor of all water prior to reaction stages. 3) Undersized vessel for water washes. (110 gallon reactor yields ~91 gallons fuel, leaving only enough room for 19 gallons of water, erego the introduction of flush washing, aka mist washing) 4) Mist washing in such a set-up generally doesn't include separation/settling of micro-droplets of fuel from the wash water, leaving some fuel to be discarded with the wash. Could probably come up with another half-dozen associated/downstream problems. But those are the predominant ones. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches From steven mesibov: FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DATE: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:19:32 -0700 (PDT) SUBJECT: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches Keith, Todd, et. al., I have read so much on the need for washing and the different methods and on the fact that violent washing is okay if you process correctly that it just occurred to me: Why not use the reaction vessel for washing as well as the initial mixing? Would pump washing (especially if you used something like Lyle's at Piedmont Static In-Line Mixer by KoFlo) be acceptable? It would certainly save on having another large container for small operations. Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Brian Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, Good for you! but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. People who say bubblewashing's too violent and set off on a quest for ever-gentler washing methods (eg mist washing) have taken a wrong turn before they start. Gentle washing techniques only mask the real problem, which is that the stuff isn't processed properly in the first place, they need to improve their processing. Emulsification doesn't normally happen with well-processed fuel. It's caused by either (or probably both) too much soap and poor conversion, leaving diglycerides and monoglycerides, which are emulsifiers. If your fuel's properly made you won't be able to emulsify it no matter how violently you agitate it. That is what you should be aiming for. See Emulsification and Emulsion Explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html#emuls So, some suggestions. First, take about 150ml of your finished, unwashed fuel and do this with it: Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Let us know what happens. Second, you can bubblewash it, in a 2-litre PET bottle. From Todd: You can use the pop-up cap found on water bottles at your grocer as the valve for drainage. This turns any PET bottle into a separative funnel. It takes a little practice to get the valve to trickle properly, but it does work superbly. More details on how that works here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/13265/ You know those pop-up caps? Maybe made for cyclists or something. We've used something a little different (I think), a screw-on pop-up cap with a straw through the middle that goes right down to the bottom of the bottle, with an air-inlet gap around the straw, and the cap closing both the straw and the air-inlet. Do your bubblewash, remove the air-stone and air-pipe from the pump, screw on the pop-up cap, turn the bottle upside down and allow to settle. To drain off the settled water, hold the bottle (still upside down) over the sink or something, lift the cap; the water comes out the air-inlet gap, air goes up the straw to the top (bottom) of the bottle, and draining is smooth without any glug-glugging that'll splash and prevent a clean separation. If you can't find something like this you could easily rig it with some thin
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Thanks Todd! That will give me a good start! Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, KOH flake at http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/dry.html. Scroll down. Commercial quantities http://www.ashtachemicals.com/mapfs.htm Sulfuric acid can be acquired through professional wastewater treatment and pool supply companies. http://www.aquascience.com/ Whether they will ship gallons to non-commercial users I don't know. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steven mesibov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA Todd, I just spent a half hour going through over a dozen soap making sites and the best I could find for catalyst was soap making kits with 4 ounce packets of lye. Could you point me in the right direction for finding the larger quantities of KOH flake? And while you are thinking about it, how bout sulphuric acid? I have been warned that the readily available acid drain openers are often quite diluted with water. Thanks! Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek You can find KOH flake at almost any in-depth soapmaking supply house. Google for soapmaking supplies on the web. Probably cost about $3.00 US per pound. You can get KOH flake in 100# lots and more from suppliers of industrial chemicals for around $1.00 per pound US. Flake runs around 90-92% purity. Adjust for the molar mass difference between NaOH and KOH and then adjust for purity level. Todd Swearingen __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Glycerin Conversion
This is the response I got from my coworker who is a chemist. Anybody tried this? I think I tried the acetic acid once in college under somebodies door, but I don't remember any french fry smelling bio-diesel as a result... ;-) steven mesibov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/16/04 10:45am John, Wondering if the glycerin byproduct of waste veggie oil (WVO) conversion to biodiesel can be converted to something more useful. What do you think of what they say below? Steve Mesibov In the first proposition, I believe you would simply end up with a partially hydrogenated veggie oil. Congratulations, you just made margarine. The sodium methoxide route you currently know about is pretty darn direct as it is, even though glycerin is a by-product. I'd stick with it. In the second proposition, absolutely nothing will result. In fact, alcohols are frequently used as solvents in hydrogenation reactions. However, you could react the glycerin with dry formic acid or glacial acetic acid. This will transform the glycerin into a methyl ester that should blend nicely with the biodiesel. This methyl ester may be easy to separate from the unreacted glycerin and acid since it should not be very water soluble. In other words, adding water to the mixture after the reaction is finished should cause it to separate into 2 distinct layers. This is just an idea mind you. You will have to try it and see how it goes. Nothing particularly dangerous about the reaction..pretty commonplace and boring, actually. You will want to use a fairly large excess of glycerin on a mole basis since the reaction is equilibrium driven. (The disappearance of the strong smell of the acid should signal the completion of the reaction). Hope this helps. John - -- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 08:42:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion? on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe what you're suggesting would be possible. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be bioengineered :-)-K --- tomasjkn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello dear fellow biofuelers, I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst. But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :) Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen, this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in reaction... So, any ideas on this?? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Todd, I just spent a half hour going through over a dozen soap making sites and the best I could find for catalyst was soap making kits with 4 ounce packets of lye. Could you point me in the right direction for finding the larger quantities of KOH flake? And while you are thinking about it, how bout sulphuric acid? I have been warned that the readily available acid drain openers are often quite diluted with water. Thanks! Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek You can find KOH flake at almost any in-depth soapmaking supply house. Google for soapmaking supplies on the web. Probably cost about $3.00 US per pound. You can get KOH flake in 100# lots and more from suppliers of industrial chemicals for around $1.00 per pound US. Flake runs around 90-92% purity. Adjust for the molar mass difference between NaOH and KOH and then adjust for purity level. Todd Swearingen __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Visit to Piedmont
Thanks, Lyle, (Piedmont BioFuels) for an excellent informative visit. I really appreciated you taking the time to show me around. I was impressed about your dedication and willingness to get solar energy, the University, and even the growing of mustard seed all involved in the bio-diesel effort. Keep up the good work with the coop and spreading the word in NC. I'll keep plugging down here in Florida. Steve Lyle, Thanks for the invite! I am really getting excited about the prospects of getting involved in Bio-diesel. Hope it won't be too much bother for you to show me and my wife around the operation. Is during the week or a weekend better for you? Possible even Memorial Day? Or possibly about a week later (on the way back south for us)? According to Mapquest you are just west of Raliegh right? Steve --- Lyle Estill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, Come see us as Piedmont Biofuels. We are on the back porch of what was an abandoned double wide. We have a little batch operation (75 gallons at a time), a little distribution business (just pumped 1000 gallons of Store Bought B100 to Chatham County Schools, we have a little coop thing going. We may have embarked on reactor 1.6, a stainless affair on a trailer for our friends at DOE, and we love visitors. What we ought to do is get the little biodiesel bed and breakfast opened. On May 25, 2004, at 2:28 PM, steven mesibov wrote: I will be heading north on vacation with my wife in early June and was wondering if I could stop by and check out a biodiesel operation. No size to small or to large. Anywhere from Florida to NH to Niagra Falls back down through Tennesse and GA. Any suggestions? I promise with Sharie along, the longest I'll be able to check things out will be about an hour, unless we could take you to dinner! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Visit to working bio diesel operation
Lyle, That sounds great! I will be emailing you directly off board and see if we can arrange some dates and times in early to mid June. Anyone else out there on the East Coast or Near East Coast want to show off their stuff to a prospective Florida BioDieseler? Steve --- Lyle Estill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, Come see us as Piedmont Biofuels. We are on the back porch of what was an abandoned double wide. We have a little batch operation (75 gallons at a time), a little distribution business (just pumped 1000 gallons of Store Bought B100 to Chatham County Schools, we have a little coop thing going. We may have embarked on reactor 1.6, a stainless affair on a trailer for our friends at DOE, and we love visitors. What we ought to do is get the little biodiesel bed and breakfast opened. On May 25, 2004, at 2:28 PM, steven mesibov wrote: I will be heading north on vacation with my wife in early June and was wondering if I could stop by and check out a biodiesel operation. No size to small or to large. Anywhere from Florida to NH to Niagra Falls back down through Tennesse and GA. Any suggestions? I promise with Sharie along, the longest I'll be able to check things out will be about an hour, unless we could take you to dinner! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill V.P., Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Visit to working bio diesel operation
I will be heading north on vacation with my wife in early June and was wondering if I could stop by and check out a biodiesel operation. No size to small or to large. Anywhere from Florida to NH to Niagra Falls back down through Tennesse and GA. Any suggestions? I promise with Sharie along, the longest I'll be able to check things out will be about an hour, unless we could take you to dinner! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] OT: anybody have a 1.6 VW diesel head or motor for sale?
My brother Lee has my dad's old diesel rabbit he is using for parts out in NM. I forgot why it stopped running but he says the head is removed but not cracked. He may be interested in selling it. Give him a call at 505-579-4604. The only caveatis that if you do get it and run it on bio-diesel you have to give me a ride in it to the local golf course in honor of my dad. :-) Steve --- Steven Pfaff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few months back I saw a diesel rabbit come into a salvage yard that I frequent. I have no idea the size or condition of the engine but I personally turned it over. I have no idea if the car is still in the yard but the place is called Sturtevant Auto Salvage - Sturtevant WI. The phone number is 262-835-2914. It's a long shot but at least a shot. Ed Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good luck you guys, I've gone through this few times with my Wabbit. The heads are real hard to find. The dealers know it and are charging big time. Rebuilt heads are $400-700.00. Be very cautious about he quality of a rebuilt head, don't take it for granted that it was done correctly. I asked around on a number of VW sights, nothing really came of it. Used heads are a roll of the dice at best, about $150. Depending on the condition, it may be another $200 the rebuild. Have a reputable diesel shop measure and pressure test before you buy, runs about $30. Most shops will tell you they can do the work but, they're really not set up for it, try to find a shop that does only diesel work, trucks, forklifts... They'll have all the right tools, gigs, manuals/specs and will have seen many VW heads already. They'll disassemble and clean the head. They'll measure for the amount of warppage and previous machining. They'll pressure test for leakage. If the crack is between the valves, the head may still be usable/serviceable, If the crack comes out of the prechamber it's done for. I drove with a cracked head for over a year. It was supposed to be temperary fix but, these darn heads are hard to find! I found the last head by pure chance. Most of the VW Parts shops are dealing in the 1.9L. I did hear of a Co. that was casting/machining new heads for about $700.00. I have no idea about how well they're working. Does anyone know? If you find any working/rebuildable heads please let me know. Good luck and thanks, Ed From: girl mark Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [biofuel] OT: anybody have a 1.6 VW diesel head or motor for sale? Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 21:15:25 -0700 offtopic: Does anyone on these lists in the US have for sale: any of the following Volkswagen diesel engines or engine parts from the Rabbit/Jetta/Golf family: 1. functioning (or at least not cracked) 1.6L, non-turbo cylinder head (12 mm bolts), 2. or a 1.6 turbodiesel motor in any condition 3. or a 1.9 (nonTDI) turbo motor/trans for sale, 4. or a crashed, cheap, parts VW with functioning engine from post-1981-ish that is located within a day's hauling distance from San Francisco?? I'm working on my biodiesel site's landlord's truck (s brother';s cousin's girlfriend's boss's cousin's) and we're a little stumped on how to proceed with it, affordably, especially since we don't have a good core to use if we're buying a rebuilt head. He cracked the head on a nice engine in a truck he was planning on eventually doing a major restoration job to, and he was additionally planning on someday putting a turbo engine into this old little vehicle. It's a tough call on where to proceed with it with the premature demise of the current engine, and he is now considering an engine swap to a turbo or 1.9 canadian turbo engine if we can find one quickish. Cheap turbo engines needing a rebuild= work for me. also, does anyone in the SF Bay Area have VW injection pump timing tools that I could rent from you (or buy from you) for the job? Mark _ Mothers Day is May 9. Make it special with great ideas from the Mothers Day Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04mothersday.armx Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links - Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
