Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
LOL LOL but the best one is Evian water. Evian is NAIVE spelled backwards!! Perfect. (said it here b4) BTW here are some locals who are not just emailing web forums on this issue. Take action. It is amazing how fast theis group mobilized and how much effect they are having. http://www.wellingtonwaterwatchers.ca/ Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Big SNIP But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition. Gotta go work on the logo. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
The little island in Maine my family hails from did that as a joke - they have a large fresh water pond and bottled and sold the water in the one store. Made a pretty penny. Of course, the water does taste good, but it's the same stuff that comes out of the tap in the houses. -Mike Joe Street wrote: LOL LOL but the best one is Evian water. Evian is NAIVE spelled backwards!! Perfect. (said it here b4) BTW here are some locals who are not just emailing web forums on this issue. Take action. It is amazing how fast theis group mobilized and how much effect they are having. http://www.wellingtonwaterwatchers.ca/ Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Big SNIP But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition. Gotta go work on the logo. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/6/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. I agree that happens. There are some HUD houses in town where I have clients and the work there was sub standard. The guy I bought my house from is a framer and I can promise the house he works on do not get short changed. Sure the primary contractor on the job wants to make money (just like most of us) but he is not a crook. The building inspector makes sure things are to code and not a crappy job. They inspect at many stages of the building process. The guy who was on the job when the HUD houses were built has since been let go. IMO they should have made the contractors rebuild the HUD homes but people were lazy from top to bottom.In my experience a majority of construction companies are not thieves. My friend that does home evaluations picks up on short cuts and the price of the house will reflect it. Anyone who is buying a home should have a independent inspector/evaluator. If they do not they have only them selves to blame. Its not like this information is secret, any realestate company should be able to get you in contact with a few.[my opinion] I think this comes back primarily to people being lazy. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Purify water with reverse osmosis? Friends, it strongly depends on what contamination has in it. Drinking water is far more complicated to produce than one step processing as reverse osmosis, electrodyalisis or simple or complex devices. Destilation is what mother nature do for us for free, then aireation in natural streams, simple isn´t it? What do we do when there is no ready water source available? I agree that packing systems contaminates too much, lots of energy and dangerous raw materials. Can you describe how the packing system contaminates the bottled watter? Do you have some figures on how much energy it takes to filter and bottle water en masse as compared to the number of small processors or a city scale one it would take for the same volume? Dangerous is what ways and to what/whom? We are fools as a society, we buy the international companies bright ideas as tab bottled. I know many bottling facilities and all of them bottle tap water or well water, and label them with pure mountains and glaciars, bullshit. And consumer buys and buys. A pity, but that is the way the things are. Not all companies do that. The one I linked near the start of the thread uses a capped spring. The water comes up naturally and flows to a pool that is then used to feed the bottling plant. There is a mountain in the background of the logo, the facility sits in a valley at 3400feet between 7000ft mountains (I am 10 miles from the site in the same valley) I agree a lot of bottling companies are little more then flim flam artists. Is there any kind of legislation we can request that will help? - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/5/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie, To my question: Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? You answered: Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers .. Thanks for the reply As for the rest, I'm baffled. (I admit to falling for tongue-in-cheek humor here in the past.) I'm also not the best at getting my ideas and thoughts across the way I mean. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Exactly! A family of four then, would consume 200 -300 bottles a year. The system pays for itself in about 2 years. The fact that you use tap water to make your tea suggests that your tap water is at least tolerable. I have a family of 4. My children do not get any where near that much bottled material. They get 1 each per weekend when we do trips. We make a gallon of tea, juice, lemon aid, or such and reuse the bottles for them. For us (well mostly me) I drink what we take along. My wife buys 15~20 bottles a month, mostly on the weekends. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? In a apartment building its up to the building owner. Do I want a higher end apt with more features then the one down the block? Do i want a pool? A gated drive? Covered parking spots? Else wise, it is the job of the city. In a shopping mall or such, the same thoughts as the apt building apply, but the city water should be good enough. If it is not they should get the city to fix the water quality, that is the job of the city. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Places were drinking water is not available is a totally different thing. Would I need to describe how the wasted packing material contaminates the world and how the PET bottles do its part? Or any other plastics? It does not contaminates the water inside the bottle (hope the manufacturer did a good polimerization work) but does with the environment were it is disposed. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Purify water with reverse osmosis? Friends, it strongly depends on what contamination has in it. Drinking water is far more complicated to produce than one step processing as reverse osmosis, electrodyalisis or simple or complex devices. Destilation is what mother nature do for us for free, then aireation in natural streams, simple isn´t it? What do we do when there is no ready water source available? I agree that packing systems contaminates too much, lots of energy and dangerous raw materials. Can you describe how the packing system contaminates the bottled watter? Do you have some figures on how much energy it takes to filter and bottle water en masse as compared to the number of small processors or a city scale one it would take for the same volume? Dangerous is what ways and to what/whom? We are fools as a society, we buy the international companies bright ideas as tab bottled. I know many bottling facilities and all of them bottle tap water or well water, and label them with pure mountains and glaciars, bullshit. And consumer buys and buys. A pity, but that is the way the things are. Not all companies do that. The one I linked near the start of the thread uses a capped spring. The water comes up naturally and flows to a pool that is then used to feed the bottling plant. There is a mountain in the background of the logo, the facility sits in a valley at 3400feet between 7000ft mountains (I am 10 miles from the site in the same valley) I agree a lot of bottling companies are little more then flim flam artists. Is there any kind of legislation we can request that will help? - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/5/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie, To my question: Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? You answered: Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers .. Thanks for the reply As for the rest, I'm baffled. (I admit to falling for tongue-in-cheek humor here in the past.) I'm also not the best at getting my ideas and thoughts across the way I mean. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Exactly! A family of four then, would consume 200 -300 bottles a year. The system pays for itself in about 2 years. The fact that you use tap water to make your tea suggests that your tap water is at least tolerable. I have a family of 4. My children do not get any where near that much bottled material. They get 1 each per weekend when we do trips. We make a gallon of tea, juice, lemon aid, or such and reuse the bottles for them. For us (well mostly me) I drink what we take along. My wife buys 15~20 bottles a month, mostly on the weekends. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? In a apartment building its up to the building owner. Do I
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
It's not so much the construction that I think gets shortchanged, as the design. Most construction workers I've met, even illegal immigrants getting pretty bad pay, take pride in their work, and they wouldn't build a crappy house on purpose. However, if it's designed with only R-25 insulation and no low-e windows, that's what they put in there. It's the design decisions where I think that eventual owner is getting cheated. Code is good for making sure houses don't fall down, but they are not very stringent for energy efficiency or such... And to some extent, you can't completely blame the developers, because they are only building what people want. People, when they are looking at a new house, don't even ask about the efficiency -- so, yes, if the buyers were more informed, the builders would have some motivation to address those concerns. On 8/6/07, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/6/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. I agree that happens. There are some HUD houses in town where I have clients and the work there was sub standard. The guy I bought my house from is a framer and I can promise the house he works on do not get short changed. Sure the primary contractor on the job wants to make money (just like most of us) but he is not a crook. The building inspector makes sure things are to code and not a crappy job. They inspect at many stages of the building process. The guy who was on the job when the HUD houses were built has since been let go. IMO they should have made the contractors rebuild the HUD homes but people were lazy from top to bottom.In my experience a majority of construction companies are not thieves. My friend that does home evaluations picks up on short cuts and the price of the house will reflect it. Anyone who is buying a home should have a independent inspector/evaluator. If they do not they have only them selves to blame. Its not like this information is secret, any realestate company should be able to get you in contact with a few.[my opinion] I think this comes back primarily to people being lazy. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
So, it is the building code and inspection regime that does not work. With a good building code and inspection regime, the basic standard is set to meet the needs of the buyer and the state, It brings a leveled play ground for the contractors, who cannot afford to not meet the code, but price differences are then smaller, Hakan At 06:38 PM 8/6/2007, you wrote: It's not so much the construction that I think gets shortchanged, as the design. Most construction workers I've met, even illegal immigrants getting pretty bad pay, take pride in their work, and they wouldn't build a crappy house on purpose. However, if it's designed with only R-25 insulation and no low-e windows, that's what they put in there. It's the design decisions where I think that eventual owner is getting cheated. Code is good for making sure houses don't fall down, but they are not very stringent for energy efficiency or such... And to some extent, you can't completely blame the developers, because they are only building what people want. People, when they are looking at a new house, don't even ask about the efficiency -- so, yes, if the buyers were more informed, the builders would have some motivation to address those concerns. On 8/6/07, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/6/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. I agree that happens. There are some HUD houses in town where I have clients and the work there was sub standard. The guy I bought my house from is a framer and I can promise the house he works on do not get short changed. Sure the primary contractor on the job wants to make money (just like most of us) but he is not a crook. The building inspector makes sure things are to code and not a crappy job. They inspect at many stages of the building process. The guy who was on the job when the HUD houses were built has since been let go. IMO they should have made the contractors rebuild the HUD homes but people were lazy from top to bottom.In my experience a majority of construction companies are not thieves. My friend that does home evaluations picks up on short cuts and the price of the house will reflect it. Anyone who is buying a home should have a independent inspector/evaluator. If they do not they have only them selves to blame. Its not like this information is secret, any realestate company should be able to get you in contact with a few.[my opinion] I think this comes back primarily to people being lazy. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
It's been my experience that if given the choice between a USD 50k granite and Viking kitchen, or USD 50k worth of energy-saving upgrades, the kitchen wins everytime. Hakan Falk wrote: So, it is the building code and inspection regime that does not work. With a good building code and inspection regime, the basic standard is set to meet the needs of the buyer and the state, It brings a leveled play ground for the contractors, who cannot afford to not meet the code, but price differences are then smaller, Hakan At 06:38 PM 8/6/2007, you wrote: It's not so much the construction that I think gets shortchanged, as the design. Most construction workers I've met, even illegal immigrants getting pretty bad pay, take pride in their work, and they wouldn't build a crappy house on purpose. However, if it's designed with only R-25 insulation and no low-e windows, that's what they put in there. It's the design decisions where I think that eventual owner is getting cheated. Code is good for making sure houses don't fall down, but they are not very stringent for energy efficiency or such... And to some extent, you can't completely blame the developers, because they are only building what people want. People, when they are looking at a new house, don't even ask about the efficiency -- so, yes, if the buyers were more informed, the builders would have some motivation to address those concerns. On 8/6/07, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/6/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. I agree that happens. There are some HUD houses in town where I have clients and the work there was sub standard. The guy I bought my house from is a framer and I can promise the house he works on do not get short changed. Sure the primary contractor on the job wants to make money (just like most of us) but he is not a crook. The building inspector makes sure things are to code and not a crappy job. They inspect at many stages of the building process. The guy who was on the job when the HUD houses were built has since been let go. IMO they should have made the contractors rebuild the HUD homes but people were lazy from top to bottom.In my experience a majority of construction companies are not thieves. My friend that does home evaluations picks up on short cuts and the price of the house will reflect it. Anyone who is buying a home should have a independent inspector/evaluator. If they do not they have only them selves to blame. Its not like this information is secret, any realestate company should be able to get you in contact with a few.[my opinion] I think this comes back primarily to people being lazy. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
but you. I don't have a city. The town near me pumps water out of an aquafir. It's real good too. I simply asked if it was possible for an individual to achieve better water quality, including better taste, through water filtration. But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition. Gotta go work on the logo. Tom - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) www.freedrinkingwater.com Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. Back then it was common practice to taste the water before buying a house. Quality water was a very high priority. The value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of water quality at the tap. Not today it is not. It is fairly meaningless short of does the water work? There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water . it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we now know, this is B.S. No? Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. Now its all about flavored water. I admit that half the water I buy is a brand called Option. I pay $0.88 per bottle and only buy when its on sale. This is mostly for when I am on a trip or going to be working on roofs. What if we decided to ensure good water at our taps and better still, good water at the source? What if we took as much pride in the water coming from our tap as we do in the view we have from our living room or our back deck? We already do demand good water, it just is not enforced. I'm old enough to remember a day when my father would take us to a ball game and complain about having to pay for parking at the stadium lot. He'd say Next thing, we'll be paying for water. We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. The next time you go out to eat pay attention to the wait staff. They put out free glasses of water. You know why that is? Law. I forget the details but some time ago (100yrs?) people were being charged stupid amounts for a glass of water with a meal (IIRC had to do with hot weather
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Hey John, I have been places where the tap water didn't taste good, and I understand why people there would buy bottled water. I would like my water to include the minerals/trace elements characteristic of good well water. Can reverse osmosis systems provide for this. Tom - Original Message - From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Hi Tom. Yes, I am sure it is possible to clean the water so it is healthy AND tastes good. I just don't know how. Yes, I could buy myself an R/O system for the home. I may yet. As you say, the cost of buying bottled water would pay for it. But I do not pay anywhere close to $1 - $3 for 1/2 liter. Average I pay $0.16 per 500ml by the 24-30 bottle case. I also pay $3.50 for the large water cooler type bottles per refill. And finally, I also agree that newer homes will, eventually, build with water filtration. Used to be here (Southern Ontario) that A/C was not the norm. Now it is. Pre-wired cable was not, now is. cheers. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:39 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water John, I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Hello Jeromie This all seems very confused, but why so strident? Yes I did [read the whole thing]. I did NOT say the company from the article did not lie, in fact, i even pointed out that they and most (maybe all?) large bottled water companies are evil. I said the small, local bottling company was fairly decent. But apart from this and your last line it's the large bottled water companies that you defend, not the small, local bottling company. So what? The act of PRODUCTION depletes something. Even your breathing depletes the air. Really? If you leave the biosphere out of it maybe, in which case no breathable air anyway. So is it just me or the whole system that's depleting the air when I/we breathe? And are you sure we're not replenishing it too? The problem is not the depletion, its the lack of regulation of the RATE of depletion. :-) That depends on how many angels can dance on the cap of a plastic water bottle. ... that [the bottles] has nothing to do with drinking bottled water, that is a RECYCLING problem, and we have it with more then just bottled water. You don't say. (No need to shout.) You need to separate the garbage of a product from the product it self, they are not the same issue. Indeed not the same, but not separate either, they're closely related, obviously, to the point of the one *causing* the other. You can take such a keyhole approach if you like but I'll pass. Wowies 60 million plastic bottles, now compare that to 15 BILLION soda bottles that do not get recycled. So water bottles and soda bottles are the same issue, even if water bottles and the water that's in them aren't? So then we're not allowed to talk about soda either? Just the bottles? Or is it the bottles we're not supposed to be talking about? So then where does the soda fit in? Anyway, no need to bother then about a mere 60 million plastic water bottles discarded per day, nor indeed the 20 million barrels of oil per year wasted in making them, it just doesn't matter at all because the soda bottles are so much worse. Hm. So what? That is the point of business, to charge as much as you can get. If people do not like the price, do not buy it. So far none of the people who buy the water do so because the bottle company took over or otherwise shut down the city water. THEY CHOOSE TO BUY IT, Do not come whining about the price. Consumer choice? You're not kidding eh? Uh, did you *really* read the whole thing? I mean READ it? Off the top of your head then - how much did it say the corps spend on spinning their bottled tap water in order to flog it at 7,000 times the cost to a gullible public dumbed down by a 30-year barrage of consumer spin to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year, and you don't even notice it? Or you discount it anyway - why, because spin's not effective, it's not a factor? That's why they go on and on very happily paying for it, eh? Or do we need to separate that from the product too, it's not the same issue? Or because you're immune to spin yourself, you think? Or you just don't notice it, like everyone else? ..and tastes better than the stuff that comes out of the tap. This is a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with the real issues here and is only there to detract from the real issue, Real issue whatever, a major point of the article was that street-level consumer taste-tests show that people can't tell the difference between bottled water and tap water. Neither is any other aspect of quality assured. Quite something for a 7,000-times value-added mark-up. You're saying that's just an irrelevant distraction? Like the 60 million discarded bottles a day and the 20 million barrels of oil wasted and the millions of dollars spent on market manipulation. Whence all these strange rules you're making Jeromie? It doesn't count, or it's a separate issue, or it only detracts from the real issues (but I've lost track of whatever it is you think are the real issues). Well, make whatever rules you like, feel free, but they'll have to make a little more sense if you want anyone to heed them. If it were up to me they would get their toys taken away (IE, confiscate the bottling plant and the water resource they abused). So why all the fuss then? Anyway I'll settle for that. I enoyed Tom's comment: But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition.
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
I admit, I don't the answer to that one. Yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:12 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Hey John, I have been places where the tap water didn't taste good, and I understand why people there would buy bottled water. I would like my water to include the minerals/trace elements characteristic of good well water. Can reverse osmosis systems provide for this. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
RO water is essentially distilled water or pure rain water. As for minerals they are in your food theoretically although much commercial food is rubbish. I use supplements. Magnesium especially. My doctor commented on my blood panel - You actually have enough magnesium. Most people are deficient. John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I admit, I don't the answer to that one. Yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:12 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Hey John, I have been places where the tap water didn't taste good, and I understand why people there would buy bottled water. I would like my water to include the minerals/trace elements characteristic of good well water. Can reverse osmosis systems provide for this. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
tasting the water before renting/buying. You: Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells.City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. I see how that can be confusing. To me it was not really changing the value of the house. The way I meant that it is not a factor in todays world is that MOST people do not care beyond does it work. I have a friend who does house evaluations and he says almost no one cares about his opinion on the water. Jeromie, this discussion began with Keith posting an article that exposed bottled water from Pepsi as being little more than tap water; good tap water. Included was discussion of the environmental consequences of packaging, transporting and disposing of literally millions and millions of bottles that contain tap water. We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. You're right. Aside from the cost of digging/drilling wells, the metabolic energy costs of hand pumping/toting from the creek/electric bills for pumps etc, there are water bills for city-dwellers. What was the price quoted? Tucson Arizona tap water: From the tap, you can pour over 6.4 gallons for a penny. Back when my father made the comment, I suspect it was much cheaper. I don't recall ever being charged for water when eating out, until the bottled water craze hit. Re-stating my question: Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? You now reply: Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. See your previous answer re: $500 . adds little to the price of a new home. Which answer should I go with? Both answers are true. You need to look at the context for each. When building your own home, that is a piddly amount. When you rent your home, it most likely is not so piddly, and you might not even be allowed to put the unit in. Also this does not take into account the costs for the filters and etc consumables needed every year. Go take a good look at your cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping you but you. I don't have a city. The town near me pumps water out of an aquafir. It's real good too. I simply asked if it was possible for an individual to achieve better water quality, including better taste, through water filtration. I meant this as a example of why city water is what it is as compared to bottled water. Part of the issue was also the price of city water and why it is so expensive and that some people could not afford it. But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition. That would be up to you. I agree there needs to be a clearer release on what the product is. I did not do a good job of expressing myself. Gotta go work on the logo. Tom - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) www.freedrinkingwater.com Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Purify water with reverse osmosis? Friends, it strongly depends on what contamination has in it. Drinking water is far more complicated to produce than one step processing as reverse osmosis, electrodyalisis or simple or complex devices. Destilation is what mother nature do for us for free, then aireation in natural streams, simple isn´t it? I agree that packing systems contaminates too much, lots of energy and dangerous raw materials. We are fools as a society, we buy the international companies bright ideas as tab bottled. I know many bottling facilities and all of them bottle tap water or well water, and label them with pure mountains and glaciars, bullshit. And consumer buys and buys. A pity, but that is the way the things are. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/5/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie, To my question: Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? You answered: Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers .. Thanks for the reply As for the rest, I'm baffled. (I admit to falling for tongue-in-cheek humor here in the past.) I'm also not the best at getting my ideas and thoughts across the way I mean. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Exactly! A family of four then, would consume 200 -300 bottles a year. The system pays for itself in about 2 years. The fact that you use tap water to make your tea suggests that your tap water is at least tolerable. I have a family of 4. My children do not get any where near that much bottled material. They get 1 each per weekend when we do trips. We make a gallon of tea, juice, lemon aid, or such and reuse the bottles for them. For us (well mostly me) I drink what we take along. My wife buys 15~20 bottles a month, mostly on the weekends. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? In a apartment building its up to the building owner. Do I want a higher end apt with more features then the one down the block? Do i want a pool? A gated drive? Covered parking spots? Else wise, it is the job of the city. In a shopping mall or such, the same thoughts as the apt building apply, but the city water should be good enough. If it is not they should get the city to fix the water quality, that is the job of the city. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. Why would you taste the water before buying/renting property? Would the quality of the water influence whether or not you signed the lease or bought the house? (Hence the value of the property.) To determine if I need/want to install a water conditioning system. The city water is good enough but some well water is not great out here. Also wells can have a pressure issue and I like high pressure showers. There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water . it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we now know, this is B.S. No? Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. Let me see if I get this right. Bottled water is very often tap water. Tap water is for poor uncultured people Bottled (tap) water is for special people This is not a simple case of image over substance? I was agreeing to the views that bottled water is some how better but generally
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Those trace elements are put back by many water companies. To get good, pure natural water, buy from www.oregontrailmountainspringwater.com On 8/4/07, doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
40% of city water in the US is substandard. Water in my town is not to be drunk by pregnant women or children under 2. I think they are way too lax. I dont even grow edibles with this water. Our family garden is at my daughters on a different aquifer. Most bottled water is not RO by the way. Kirk Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those trace elements are put back by many water companies. To get good, pure natural water, buy from www.oregontrailmountainspringwater.com On 8/4/07, doug wrote: Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On the road I drink bottled water. The chloramine levels in some towns gives me a sore throat. Plus it is a carcinogen. Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? On 8/4/07, Keith Addison wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
spoon tanks my grandfather has a pressure tank in the basement, and it has a spoon welded over the input opening. it doesnt slow the water down any, but it splatters it all around the inside if the tank which is vented. we have sulfurwater, and sometimes it smells bad, but not nearly as bad as the water sraight out of the well! its like someone tried to boil rotten eggs in a closed room.. :/ i think chlorine can be reduced in the same manner. From: doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:00:03 +1000 Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Messenger Café open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into it. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Back then it was common practice to taste the water before buying a house. Quality water was a very high priority. The value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of water quality at the tap. There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water . it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we now know, this is B.S. No? What if we decided to ensure good water at our taps and better still, good water at the source? What if we took as much pride in the water coming from our tap as we do in the view we have from our living room or our back deck? I'm old enough to remember a day when my father would take us to a ball game and complain about having to pay for parking at the stadium lot. He'd say Next thing, we'll be paying for water. Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? Tom - Original Message - From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
chlorine can, chloramines no. And most municipalities use chloramines now. Cheaper. Jason Mier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: spoon tanks my grandfather has a pressure tank in the basement, and it has a spoon welded over the input opening. it doesnt slow the water down any, but it splatters it all around the inside if the tank which is vented. we have sulfurwater, and sometimes it smells bad, but not nearly as bad as the water sraight out of the well! its like someone tried to boil rotten eggs in a closed room.. :/ i think chlorine can be reduced in the same manner. From: doug Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:00:03 +1000 Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Messenger Café open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? They do lie. Did you read the whole article? http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70602.html [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Did you miss this bit? The environmental impact of the country's obsession with bottled water has been staggering. Each day an estimated 60 million plastic water bottles are thrown away. Most are not recycled. The Pacific Institute has estimated 20 million barrels of oil are used each year to make the plastic for water bottles. Here's Blanding's article: http://www.alternet.org/story/43480/ The Bottled Water Lie By Michael Blanding, AlterNet October 26, 2006 There's good info on water rip-offs in the list archives. Best Keith On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) www.freedrinkingwater.com Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into it. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. Back then it was common practice to taste the water before buying a house. Quality water was a very high priority. The value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of water quality at the tap. Not today it is not. It is fairly meaningless short of does the water work? There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water . it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we now know, this is B.S. No? Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. Now its all about flavored water. I admit that half the water I buy is a brand called Option. I pay $0.88 per bottle and only buy when its on sale. This is mostly for when I am on a trip or going to be working on roofs. What if we decided to ensure good water at our taps and better still, good water at the source? What if we took as much pride in the water coming from our tap as we do in the view we have from our living room or our back deck? We already do demand good water, it just is not enforced. I'm old enough to remember a day when my father would take us to a ball game and complain about having to pay for parking at the stadium lot. He'd say Next thing, we'll be paying for water. We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. The next time you go out to eat pay attention to the wait staff. They put out free glasses of water. You know why that is? Law. I forget the details but some time ago (100yrs?) people were being charged stupid amounts for a glass of water with a meal (IIRC had to do with hot weather). Law was passed so this is now free. Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. Go take a good look at your cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping you but you. Tom - Original Message - From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? They do lie. Did you read the whole article? Yes I did. I did NOT say the company from the article did not lie, in fact, i even pointed out that they and most (maybe all?) large bottled water companies are evil. I said the small, local bottling company was fairly decent. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70602.html [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Did you miss this bit? The environmental impact of the country's obsession with bottled water has been staggering. Each day an estimated 60 million plastic water bottles are thrown away. Most are not recycled. The Pacific Institute has estimated 20 million barrels of oil are used each year to make the plastic for water bottles. I'm sorry that has nothing to do with drinking bottled water, that is a RECYCLING problem, and we have it with more then just bottled water. You need to separate the garbage of a product from the product it self, they are not the same issue. Wowies 60 million plastic bottles, now compare that to 15 BILLION soda bottles that do not get recycled. This jumping on bottled water is just a crap response to the elitist sheik ooh its bottled water, i'm cool Here's Blanding's article: http://www.alternet.org/story/43480/ The Bottled Water Lie By Michael Blanding, AlterNet October 26, 2006 There's good info on water rip-offs in the list archives. The thing is, the companies depleting the aquifers and polluting, that is not a bottled water issue. Its a resource management issue, and some one dropped the ball. The fact that the company makes a profit on it doesn't mater at all. The fact that some city let them tap the resource and abuse it should be the issue. The fact that some of the product was contaminated should be the issue, not the fact that the buyers of the product do not recycle. FTFA: The corporations that sell bottled water are depleting natural resources,.. So what? The act of PRODUCTION depletes something. Even your breathing depletes the air. The problem is not the depletion, its the lack of regulation of the RATE of depletion. ...jacking up prices,... So what? That is the point of business, to charge as much as you can get. If people do not like the price, do not buy it. So far none of the people who buy the water do so because the bottle company took over or otherwise shut down the city water. THEY CHOOSE TO BUY IT, Do not come whining about the price. ...and lying when they tell you their water is purer... Again, this is a regulation issue. Same as those cities that have polluted water, regulation is not being enforced. The companies (and many cities) are being lazy and the people who watch over them are too. Thats as bad as kids running in the street, whos at fault? The child who does not really get it or the lacking parent? I vote the missing parent. ..and tastes better than the stuff that comes out of the tap. This is a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with the real issues here and is only there to detract from the real issue, the lack of enforced regulation and companies who are being bad. If it were up to me they would get their toys taken away (IE, confiscate the bottling plant and the water resource they abused). Best Keith On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis).
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Hi Tom. Yes, I am sure it is possible to clean the water so it is healthy AND tastes good. I just don't know how. Yes, I could buy myself an R/O system for the home. I may yet. As you say, the cost of buying bottled water would pay for it. But I do not pay anywhere close to $1 - $3 for 1/2 liter. Average I pay $0.16 per 500ml by the 24-30 bottle case. I also pay $3.50 for the large water cooler type bottles per refill. And finally, I also agree that newer homes will, eventually, build with water filtration. Used to be here (Southern Ontario) that A/C was not the norm. Now it is. Pre-wired cable was not, now is. cheers. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:39 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water John, I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
