Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Well yeah of course they play a role, unless they are all burned out. LOL I have seen that before too.. Darn engine wont start, only one cylinder seems to be trying to run.. where all that white smoke coming from? Pretty soon they start firing one by one. but to do it your cranking with your foot on the floor. The injectors fire right on the glow plugs in a GM diesel, so the idea is the glowplugs get hot when the piston comes up and the fuel fires onto that hot glowplug it is immediatly vaporized from the heat. The fuel immediatly around the glowplugs starts to burnwhich immediatly starts building heat and pressure which ignites the rest of the fuel. This is a bit(tiny bit) slower then the process once the engine is warmed up which is why the timing has to be advanced a bit more during the cold operation. As you might imagine clogged injectors with distorted spray patterns might have an affect on how well this works. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: desertstallion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 12:54 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Do you think the glow plugs have any role in this? As I said, I have seen the use of starter fluid allowed, even encouraged by manufacturers of Diesel engines that do not have glow plugs. Could this have a role in whether or not someone should use starter fluid? It would seem to me that glow plugs would make pre-ignition more likely. Derek -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 19:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Of Course the manuals say not to use ether along with other legal jargon and this is exactly why they say not to use it. Because they can't regulate HOW people use it. You think they want to have to do warranty work because someone else screwed up? If you dont understand how ether/startingfluid works you shouldn't be using it. Had his engine been cranking faster 1 of 2 things different would have happened: 1. More then likely his engine would have started without the use of the Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Do you think the glow plugs have any role in this? As I said, I have seen the use of starter fluid allowed, even encouraged by manufacturers of Diesel engines that do not have glow plugs. Could this have a role in whether or not someone should use starter fluid? It would seem to me that glow plugs would make pre-ignition more likely. Derek -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 19:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Of Course the manuals say not to use ether along with other legal jargon and this is exactly why they say not to use it. Because they can't regulate HOW people use it. You think they want to have to do warranty work because someone else screwed up? If you dont understand how ether/startingfluid works you shouldn't be using it. Had his engine been cranking faster 1 of 2 things different would have happened: 1. More then likely his engine would have started without the use of the ether. Cranking speed is critical in a diesel because the air is compressed which creates heat. This Hot Dense air is suppose to fire the fuel but in a cold engine it can quickly dissipate the heat to the cylinder walls, head, and piston. You might not think so but this can happen incredibly fast. Go ahead and experiment with a stirling cycle engine and you will see what I mean. Its this property in fact that makes the stirling engine work. 2. Had it been cranking faster with a bit less starting fluid the rotating mass would have carried over and at least some of the energy would have propelled the engine in the right direction. I have seen diesels crank slow enough that basically the cylinder was losing most of its heat(therefore some of the pressure in the cylinder resisting the starter) before the piston came TDC. A gas engine can do this and still start but a diesel can't. Your chance of starting a slow cold cranking diesel is practically nil. back in those days I didn't have an RPM guage so I cant really give numbers but I would have to say as a rule of thumb, if you can hear the engine hesitate, even a little bit, on each cylinder then your in trouble. You can get by with crappy batteries in a gas car for some time if you dont have any engine problems but not so in a diesel. Again this is just drawn from my personal experiance of owning diesels and rebuilding and assisting others with their diesels. I love hopping up diesel engines to double their horsepower and what not. Diesels have even been used on the drag strip. Ever see 600 some horsepower from an old 6.2? Some crazy guy did it but I dont think you could call him pollution concious. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: desertstallion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be used. Derek Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with it then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's when I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it was to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. It sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got a whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the engine. I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do remember saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked into the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the truck to a local charity that deals with autos. The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to duplicate my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just enough to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may not have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The result was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting fluid is a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away and spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that are kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to start when cold I recommend adding a 3rd battery. It cant hurt and it does help. I have 3 starting batteries in my 6.5(used tobe 6.2) '83 chevy Van. I also have 3 or 4 accessory batteries that hook into the circuit soon as I start cranking. before I went to low compression pistons I had no trouble starting this without even useing the glowplugs till it got down to about 28 degrees F. If youcant go wtih three batteries make sure the two youdo have are the biggest and the best and are preferably less then 3 years old. Good skiing. PS Never hurts to have a can of starting fluid in the trunk
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be used. Derek -Original Message- From: martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 21:11 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! You used too much. I worked on a farm and we had to use ether all the time to get things running and I never broke anything. One time I sprayed too much in an engine and it revved really [way too] fast, but it didn't break anything. But these were large 500 ci IH in milk trucks, and smaller straight 6 tractors. So I guess if you don't need it, don't use it of course. harley3 wrote: Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Bryan: A fully loaded Chevy Suburban Silverado. It was an all around bad mistake. I do have a bad temper. It was an excellent tax write off. Again, hopefully a new person to diesels won't do the same. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with it then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's when I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it was to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. It sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got a whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the engine. I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do remember saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked into the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the truck to a local charity that deals with autos. The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to duplicate my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just enough to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may not have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The result was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting fluid is a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away and spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that are kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to start when cold I
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Of Course the manuals say not to use ether along with other legal jargon and this is exactly why they say not to use it. Because they can't regulate HOW people use it. You think they want to have to do warranty work because someone else screwed up? If you dont understand how ether/startingfluid works you shouldn't be using it. Had his engine been cranking faster 1 of 2 things different would have happened: 1. More then likely his engine would have started without the use of the ether. Cranking speed is critical in a diesel because the air is compressed which creates heat. This Hot Dense air is suppose to fire the fuel but in a cold engine it can quickly dissipate the heat to the cylinder walls, head, and piston. You might not think so but this can happen incredibly fast. Go ahead and experiment with a stirling cycle engine and you will see what I mean. Its this property in fact that makes the stirling engine work. 2. Had it been cranking faster with a bit less starting fluid the rotating mass would have carried over and at least some of the energy would have propelled the engine in the right direction. I have seen diesels crank slow enough that basically the cylinder was losing most of its heat(therefore some of the pressure in the cylinder resisting the starter) before the piston came TDC. A gas engine can do this and still start but a diesel can't. Your chance of starting a slow cold cranking diesel is practically nil. back in those days I didn't have an RPM guage so I cant really give numbers but I would have to say as a rule of thumb, if you can hear the engine hesitate, even a little bit, on each cylinder then your in trouble. You can get by with crappy batteries in a gas car for some time if you dont have any engine problems but not so in a diesel. Again this is just drawn from my personal experiance of owning diesels and rebuilding and assisting others with their diesels. I love hopping up diesel engines to double their horsepower and what not. Diesels have even been used on the drag strip. Ever see 600 some horsepower from an old 6.2? Some crazy guy did it but I dont think you could call him pollution concious. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: desertstallion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be used. Derek -Original Message- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
LOL I been looking for one of those. I prefer body and interior in good shape and engine shot. I hate body work but dont mind pulling engines to rebuild them. Things like running out of oil, swallowed glowplugs etc.. Getting them like that is the only way I can afford them. LOL Yes folks that dont understand either should not use it.. Just make sure you have your batteries tested at least once a year. Replace them even if they barely pass. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:37 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Bryan: A fully loaded Chevy Suburban Silverado. It was an all around bad mistake. I do have a bad temper. It was an excellent tax write off. Again, hopefully a new person to diesels won't do the same. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with it then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's when I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it was to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. It sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got a whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the engine. I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do remember saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked into the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the truck to a local charity that deals with autos. The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to duplicate my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just enough to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may not have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The result was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
On a tractor I drove it said do not heat [use glowplugs] if you're going to use ether. desertstallion wrote: I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be used. Derek -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Never use ãstarting fluidä in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting fluid is a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away and spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that are kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to start when cold I recommend adding a 3rd battery. It cant hurt and it does help. I have 3 starting batteries in my 6.5(used tobe 6.2) '83 chevy Van. I also have 3 or 4 accessory batteries that hook into the circuit soon as I start cranking. before I went to low compression pistons I had no trouble starting this without even useing the glowplugs till it got down to about 28 degrees F. If youcant go wtih three batteries make sure the two youdo have are the biggest and the best and are preferably less then 3 years old. Good skiing. PS Never hurts to have a can of starting fluid in the trunk. Sincerely, Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Were do you live? It used to be in Land Crusiers ( in Canada ) had duel heavy duty batteries for starting. Here in Colorado Springs, my father was told by his mechanic to add a little gasoline to the tank before pumping the diesel. I think that it about 1 or 2 qts of gasoline to a tank of diesel to thin it out a fraction. He used this method for 3-5 years before his VW was totaled. I have heard of a method, that uses touline, to make biodiesel easier to start in winter, but it is only something I have heard, and not yet used my self ( I don't own a diesel yet ). This or the gasoline method might work for SVO or WVO as well, I don't know. Greg H. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 08:49 Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what they've heard. The effect can be the same. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus 25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put 20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad frostbites was too big. Hakan PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars. At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian perspective I think diesel is widely considered a
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
don't know about the gm's, but we used ether in sub zero temps to start our big trucks every morning. just a quick shot in the breather to get it turning. most starters can be overrun, so it may have been a fluke in your issue. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting fluid is a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away and spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that are kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to start when cold I recommend adding a 3rd battery. It cant hurt and it does help. I have 3 starting batteries in my 6.5(used tobe 6.2) '83 chevy Van. I also have 3 or 4 accessory batteries that hook into the circuit soon as I start cranking. before I went to low compression pistons I had no trouble starting this without even useing the glowplugs till it got down to about 28 degrees F. If youcant go wtih three batteries make sure the two youdo have are the biggest and the best and are preferably less then 3 years old. Good skiing. PS Never hurts to have a can of starting fluid in the trunk. Sincerely, Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Were do you live? It used to be in Land Crusiers ( in Canada ) had duel heavy duty batteries for starting. Here in Colorado Springs, my father was told by his mechanic to add a little gasoline to the tank before pumping the diesel. I think that it about 1 or 2 qts of gasoline to a tank of diesel to thin it out a fraction. He used this method for 3-5 years before his VW was totaled. I have heard of a method, that uses touline, to make biodiesel easier to start in winter, but it is only something I have heard, and not yet used my self ( I don't own a diesel yet ). This or the gasoline method might work for SVO or WVO as well, I don't know. Greg H. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 08:49 Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what they've heard. The effect can be the same. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus 25 Celsius
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
You used too much. I worked on a farm and we had to use ether all the time to get things running and I never broke anything. One time I sprayed too much in an engine and it revved really [way too] fast, but it didn't break anything. But these were large 500 ci IH in milk trucks, and smaller straight 6 tractors. So I guess if you don't need it, don't use it of course. harley3 wrote: Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just enough to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may not have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The result was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. - Original Message - From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Never use starting fluid in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much success. I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element and then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds in the intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries the vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting fluid is a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away and spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor electrical connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that are kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to start when cold I recommend adding a 3rd battery. It cant hurt and it does help. I have 3 starting batteries in my 6.5(used tobe 6.2) '83 chevy Van. I also have 3 or 4 accessory batteries that hook into the circuit soon as I start cranking. before I went to low compression pistons I had no trouble starting this without even useing the glowplugs till it got down to about 28 degrees F. If youcant go wtih three batteries make sure the two youdo have are the biggest and the best and are preferably less then 3 years old. Good skiing. PS Never hurts to have a can of starting fluid in the trunk. Sincerely, Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting Were do you live? It used to be in Land Crusiers ( in Canada ) had duel heavy duty batteries for starting. Here in Colorado Springs, my father was told by his mechanic to add a little gasoline to the tank before pumping the diesel. I think that it about 1 or 2 qts of gasoline to a tank of diesel to thin it out a fraction. He used this method for 3-5 years before his VW was totaled. I have heard of a method, that uses touline, to make biodiesel easier to start in winter, but it is only something I have heard, and not yet used my self ( I don't own a diesel yet ). This or the gasoline method might work for SVO or WVO as well, I don't know. Greg H. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 08:49 Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is that a good solution? While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved
