Do you think the glow plugs have any role in this? As I said, I have seen the use of starter fluid allowed, even encouraged by manufacturers of Diesel engines that do not have glow plugs. Could this have a role in whether or not someone should use starter fluid? It would seem to me that glow plugs would make pre-ignition more likely.
Derek -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 19:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Of Course the manuals say not to use ether along with other legal jargon and this is exactly why they say not to use it. Because they can't regulate HOW people use it. You think they want to have to do warranty work because someone else screwed up? If you dont understand how ether/startingfluid works you shouldn't be using it. Had his engine been cranking faster 1 of 2 things different would have happened: 1. More then likely his engine would have started without the use of the ether. Cranking speed is critical in a diesel because the air is compressed which creates heat. This Hot Dense air is suppose to fire the fuel but in a cold engine it can quickly dissipate the heat to the cylinder walls, head, and piston. You might not think so but this can happen incredibly fast. Go ahead and experiment with a stirling cycle engine and you will see what I mean. Its this property in fact that makes the stirling engine work. 2. Had it been cranking faster with a bit less starting fluid the rotating mass would have carried over and at least some of the energy would have propelled the engine in the right direction. I have seen diesels crank slow enough that basically the cylinder was losing most of its heat(therefore some of the pressure in the cylinder resisting the starter) before the piston came TDC. A gas engine can do this and still start but a diesel can't. Your chance of starting a slow cold cranking diesel is practically nil. back in those days I didn't have an RPM guage so I cant really give numbers but I would have to say as a rule of thumb, if you can hear the engine hesitate, even a little bit, on each cylinder then your in trouble. You can get by with crappy batteries in a gas car for some time if you dont have any engine problems but not so in a diesel. Again this is just drawn from my personal experiance of owning diesels and rebuilding and assisting others with their diesels. I love hopping up diesel engines to double their horsepower and what not. Diesels have even been used on the drag strip. Ever see 600 some horsepower from an old 6.2? Some crazy guy did it but I dont think you could call him pollution concious. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "desertstallion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have > glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for > example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow > plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an > automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may > be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation > with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of > ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it > and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. > > In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I > bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since > the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow > plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be > used. > > Derek Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
