[svg-developers] Experiment with artificial gravity in graphs with SVG
Some of you may remember the Grapher program (http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/grapher/ ) that Eric Elder and I presented at SVG Open 2009, in Mountainview CA. In addition to allowing one to design and edit graphs (linked structures), it also allows the conversion of such a graph to a web site (in which nodes become pages, and links become... well... links!). At any rate, my colleagues (Jake Weidman, Dr. Whitfield) and I have been wondering how people navigate abstract spaces, like web sites, games, or the web itself. When in ordinary Euclidean space (like the Earth), we tend to rely on gravity, familiar landmarks, and a sense of direction to get around. Suppose the familiar distances of a Euclidean space do not apply, but that the space is still a metric space in the sense of satisfying the mathematical definitions of such. How then do humans get around? Anyhow, we're beginning the first of a series of experiments about navigation of finite non-Euclidean spaces and wonder if you might participate as an experiment to help us answer some of these fundamental questions. If you're willing please go to http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/splash.htm and explore some (or all) of the spaces there. Science will be a much fuller place if you do! cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Adobe AIR drops SVG
Doug Schepers makes the good point that their statement could mean that we decided early on not to support SVG, even though we had the WebKit code, because we thought there wasn't much interest... ... but now people have been asking for it more, so we are looking into supporting it in a future release. I suspect there are a lot of folks at Adobe who wish they had never heard of SVG since they have to keep changing their mind about whether or not they like it! I predict exactly one more change of mind on the subject and that it will be rather far-reaching. On the SVG Android issue - Opera for Android was apparently released today (as Chaals or someone said it would be): http://en.onsoftware.com/opera-mobile-for-android-released/ David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-develop...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Beard Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:27 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Adobe AIR drops SVG I think the argument he uses about SVG increasing the size of the runtime is not uncommon, though. My understanding is that this is the reason Android does not include SVG support in their webkit-based browser. On that note, I wonder if svg-web works with Adobe Flash on Android? This might be a way of bringing some SVG support to the Android browser. Jake On 10-11-10 06:18 PM, Jacob Beard wrote: Wow, they disabled a lot of nice HTML5 features. A perhaps better (and open) alternative to Air may be GTK+ with embedded Webkit. I've been playing around with it, and it's actually quite nice and easy to work with, although I haven't tried it on Windows or Mac OS X. On Ubuntu 10.04, at least, SVG support is included in libwebkit which GTK uses, although strangely I haven't been able to get SMIL animation to work. Also related, if you're interested in developing RIA's for GNOME, Seedkit is worth watching, as it gives you the Webkit runtime, and exposes native GTK and GNOME objects to the scripting environment: http://live.gnome.org/SeedKit Jake On 10-11-10 06:06 PM, Dailey, David P. wrote: Citing the marvels of canvas and new CSS features, Adobe has disabled the SVG support in AIR. The statement is a bit odd: a great deal of interest lately is support for SVG Later coupled with a trend toward reduced interest in SVG graphics and finally: renewed interest in rich JavaScript applications powered by HTML5 canvas and faster JavaScript engines increased the number of requests for scriptable vector graphics via SVG. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/air/ajax/articles/air_and_webkit.html Oneiromancy is apparently not their specialty any more. They could stand a tea-leaf reading lesson from the after-hours discussions at SVG Open I think. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] canonical expressions -- part 3: more efficient ways of packing text into rectangles
Wow! Very interesting papers Jake! I'm very interested in visual languages and am pleased to know that there has been some work done in this area -- and it is strong-looking work as well! One other vaguely related thing (but not so formally presented) was this from SVG Open 2007: SVG Pictograms with Natural Language Based and Semantic Information by Kazunari ITO et al available at http://www.svgopen.org/2007/papers/SVGOpen2007abstract/index.html -- they were sort of interested in making a language (that would be cross-culturally readable) out of juxtapositions and animations of familiar icons (there are remarkably many in international usage already). Thanks for the references Jake, I'm intrigued. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-develop...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Beard Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:20 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] canonical expressions -- part 3: more efficient ways of packing text into rectangles On 10-11-08 06:07 AM, ddailey wrote: The concept of how best to write something got me wondering about the following. Using an alphabet or a syllabary (like most of the languages of the world excepting Chinese, Japanese, Mayan, and a few hundred others) how much space does it take to convey our meaning.* Here's the question: if we relax the rules of English orthography just a bit, so that instead of writing from left to write, we write from left to right, or downward, or inward (by allowing glyphs to be inside one another) , can we write legibly in less space? http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/canonical.svg http://granite.sru.edu/%7Eddailey/svg/canonical.svg This link shows a way of packing letters into a space under the relaxed rules of right-or-down-or-inside. If we confine legibility by some empirically defined threshold on the minimum size of a glyph, then if we allow physics to constrain the two dimensional placement of our glyphs, subject to rotation scaling and translation, to pack tightly, then can we find ways of expressing English (or another language using some alphabet) using less space than by writing simply unidirectionally? That's pretty interesting. I think there's a bit of work from the field of visual modelling that might be useful and relevant here. For one thing, it would probably be useful to formally define a notion of insideness in the language definition of your graphical language (the abstract syntax of the concrete syntax, in use modelling parlance). In your language definition, you would probably say that each glyph may have some region in which other glyphs may be placed, and that doing so has some relation to the abstract syntax, or the structure of the language. You may also define some constraints in terms of layout in the language definition. You can see some similar work has been done here: http://msdl.cs.mcgill.ca/people/hv/teaching/MSBDesign/notes.ClassificationFrameworkVisualLanguages.pdf The author discusses classes of visual language, including geometry-based languages, in which the meaning of the relationships between elements is primarily expressed in terms of their geometric properties (e.g. position relative to one another in the coordinate system, but I suppose this could be generalized). This includes a formal notion of insideness (see page 10, definition of ULinclude). Once you have formally defined the notion of insideness for your language, and have defined the special inside region for each element of your language (each glyph), and the special relationships between each element in the language, then it may be possible to begin applying existing layout algorithms, again perhaps from the domain of visual modelling languages. I'm thinking Harel's paper An algorithm for blob hierarchy layout, while not completely relevant, might be an interesting place to start as a model for examining the efficacy of a particular layout for a particular graphical language: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=345240 There would be many ways of analyzing such algorithms, including usability/readability, and space-efficiency. Jake [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[svg-developers] Adobe AIR drops SVG
Citing the marvels of canvas and new CSS features, Adobe has disabled the SVG support in AIR. The statement is a bit odd: a great deal of interest lately is support for SVG Later coupled with a trend toward reduced interest in SVG graphics and finally: renewed interest in rich JavaScript applications powered by HTML5 canvas and faster JavaScript engines increased the number of requests for scriptable vector graphics via SVG. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/air/ajax/articles/air_and_webkit.html Oneiromancy is apparently not their specialty any more. They could stand a tea-leaf reading lesson from the after-hours discussions at SVG Open I think. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] canonical expressions -- part 2: A challenge: accessbility and symbols of the public domain (wikipedia)
Oops, the second file I was talking about here was actually http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pd4.svg That's the familiar copyright free symbol in use by Wikipedia. The basic question is how best to make it semantically correct and visually consistent with the appearance? Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-develop...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ddailey Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 11:32 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] canonical expressions -- part 2: A challenge: accessbility and symbols of the public domain (wikipedia) Challenge: come up with better symbols for signifying public domain or copyright free. Begin here http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pd3.svg . Look at the source code and then see what you think. I'll get back to that example toward the end of this message. As a bit of searching in Google Images*, Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons will reveal, there are several symbols meant to depict the concepts of copyright free or public domain or copyleft. Not only do these concepts have slightly different nuances of meaning, but the symbols have a many-to-many relationship with the concepts. And furthermore, the symbols have differential levels of accessibity, depending on for whom we define making allowing or enabling to be accessible. And, many of the symbols, while looking alike, have very different underlying file structure. Following a recent visit to openclipart.org** I was rather prepared for what Jeff Schiller calls cruft when I saw the earlier image at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Publicdomain.svg as described there.I did the following [Hand edited to remove sodipodi and inkscape references, remove unused gradients, remove unused styles, replaced duplicated paths by use elements, simplified complex cubic beziers as simple arc subcommands; used integer arithmetic. Replaced complex arcs by circles. New file is 18 (lkb) lines of code -- old file was 144 lines (5kb). New file should have better semantics for re-editing basic objects.] Well 18 lines and 895 bytes defintely seems better than 5 kilobytes of code. But is the new code more accessible? Well, I think it is, but how can I tell for sure? How does one come up with the best expression for such a simple figure? Look inside the two figures and you'll see several questions that pose themselves: is it better to use use? does striking all the sodipodi stuff erase some of the artist's brushstrokes?*** are two paths with one rotating the other better than one that has twice as coordinates listed? doesn't it make more sense to let color be inherited from the group rather than individually defined for each path? what about the optical illusion of the letters pd for public domain? Should that be made semantic in our markup? I confess it took me a while of fidding to replace all those cubic beziers from Inkscape by the canonical arc-equivalents. But I figure that the seven coordinates (or so) that I used, instead of sixty or so in the original path ought to make the content more accessible to future analysists if anyone ever wants to modify it! Next question (and maybe more important): Take a look at http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pd3.svg The image on the left is one of the current images served by wikimedia as the symbol for copyright free.[2] Perhaps it is based on [3] . Perhaps the metadata associated with the file should show its ancestry? The file history shows some well-deserved attempt to rid the file of unneeded complexity and cruft. The current image (in its eleventh incarnation on wikipedia). It consists of four circles and three rectangles. One of the rectangles looks like it has been added merely to carve out a portion of a circle to make it look like a c. This doesn't seem very accessible. So in my quick attempt, I put a c in the middle of the circle. I defined the circle as not two circles but one. I defined the rectangle as not two but one, and I defined the C as not two circles and a rectangle, but as a c. I also made a stab at adding title and desc tags to describe the why and what of the file. So here is the challenge: can we come up with a better version of the symbol that what is there right now? Can we come up with one we will all agree is better? What I don't like about my attempt is that the C is dependent upon system fonts??? Changing from sans-serif to arial makes a huge difference in some browsers! Should the circle be one circle or two? Should the circle really be carved by a clipPath consisting of two arcs or should it be a circle with a line (rect) that crosses it? I chose a crossing line but was not convinced this was right. I stretched the C horizontally to make it appear to conform to the circle outside. Circles would have conformed better! What is the canonical title and desc information to go with the proper file? What is the proper way to refer to this
[svg-developers] CooL tests for browsers
Here are some CooL tests:
volume one - using createElementNS.
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/createElementBrowser.html
I'm calling them CooL since they are kind of cool, but I would not like to
think they are in any way so definitive as those Ken Kesey might have
proffered. Basically, they are examples I've made not to be browser tests, nor
as tests of the spec, but rather because of a curiosity as to whether or not
some particular effect could be accomplished.
A good many of them were created when only ASV+IE was around to run them, and I
have been pleased to watch as other browsers have come along and are able to
make them work. I think, that finally (with some recent advances by FF4), none
of these particular tests is any longer in the category that only ASV+IE
handles them correctly which makes me think that maybe they are correct. or
at least another browser developer and I stumbled into the same way of handling
something.
Not surprisingly, given the way many of these tests were created, ASV passes
all 19 of them. Though, please, ne t'en fais pas, as subsequent volumes emerge
(if I get the energy): for script-less animation, or for filters, or for
scripted things that don't insert or delete elements from DOM, there will be
examples where other browsers shine and ASV barfs. I have been trying to get
Windows 7 to run on one of my office machines, so that I might test IE9b (which
is likely to be adversely affected by my fondness for SVG/SMIL) but the machine
has thus far been coyly ignoring my overtures.
The point system employed shows ASVOFF4CS which might not surprise many
folks. What surprised me was how high FF4 has gotten. There is also a best of
show category and each of {ASV, O, FF4 and C} received two of these ribbons
for outstanding performance above the other browsers. This is entirely
subjective, whereas other things only mostly subjective.
Do let me know if you see a) bugs in my code that prevent a browser from doing
it properly (and by this I don't mean things like if you wouldn't use SMIL it
would work) or b) if you find that a recent bug fix in browser X that has just
made one of these things work.
These are quite different than the things the SVG IG is doing at
http://code.google.com/p/svgtorture/ which I think are much more focused on
particular SVG features than on omnibus aggregations. That work appears to be
systematic and thorough while this is not. It does give some idea though, of
how browsers fare amidst some fairly complex content. It also answers some FAQ
that I've been getting about where can I find some interesting examples, and
could I organize some of the information at
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ so it might be easier to find
things and to know where they might work.
They are also different from what Erik and Vincent have been doing at
http://svg-wow.org/ (I see the Gandhi quotes demo is now up ! a must-see! )
since the criteria for inclusion there would seem to require a lot more work!
They also go to greater lengths to work through browser limitations than these
examples. Their examples are also a lot more artful!
Cheers
David
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RE: [svg-developers] Re: Stroke width inside the shape -- Bug in Opera 9.61 and IE/ASV ???
I saw Frank's suggestion and thought yes of course! How straightforward. So I thought I'd check it out to make sure it worked the way we'd expect. Hmmm Bad news! Look at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/halfstroke0.svg (source code included below). Safari and Chrome seem to (sort of) do it correctly - though they differ rather clearly in how they handle the anti-aliasing around the clipping region. Firefox (3.0.4) displays nothing. Opera 9.61 closes itself immediately after opening the file. IE/ASV 3.03 at first displays nothing, and then closes itself if the reload button is pushed. Pretty amazing behavior, I would posit. I couldn't believe it this weekend when I tried it at home serving it locally, so I thought I'd try it viewing from a different machine at the office and coming from a server, but, sigh, same results. David halfstroke0.svg svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=100% xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; defs clipPath id=cp_poly1 use xlink:href=#poly1/ /clipPath /defs path id=poly1 d=M 100 100 300 150 200 150 150 400 z clip-path=url(#cp_poly1) stroke=blue stroke-width=15px/ /svg halfstroke0.svg From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-develop...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Bruder Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:33 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Stroke width inside the shape You could do this with a clip path. Sample code snippet: defs clipPath id=cp_poly1 use xlink:href=#poly1/ /clipPath /defs polygon id=poly1 points=... clip-path=url(#cp_poly1) stroke=blue stroke-width=5px/ The stroke is drawn centered around the outline, but the outer part is clipped by using the same shape as a clip path. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , jgfa92004 juliegaut...@... wrote: Hi, Is there a way to set the stroke width of a polyline inside the shape instead of half inside and half outside ? Thanks. Julie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] SMIL temporal legend
Yes, this is possible, I think. You'll want to look at 1.the use of the a (arc) subcommand of path , (see for example, http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/arcs.svg) 2. SMIL animation of a path (for example. http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/path10.svg ) 3. Time (for example http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ballclock.svg ) The examples in 2 and 3 use SMIL, though clearly they could be done with script instead. Hope this helps DD From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-develop...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tim.becker80 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:00 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] SMIL temporal legend Greetings to all, I'm trying to build what, in animated cartography, we call a cyclic temporal legend. In more technical terms we could call it an animated angular fill. The idea is to have something looking like a clock but with in addition, the part of time that has already been elapsed to get filled by a color. In that way, time that represents the past in the animation is one color and time that represents the futur is another color. The whole cycle of the clock most often represents one day, one week or one year according to the real-world cyclic phenomena under study... I'm wondering whether it's possible to build such a thing in SMIL or whether scripting is needed. For my purpose, it would be quite convenient to have it work in SMIL... Kind regards, Tim. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] seasonal metamorphosis
This is something I finished up while giving a final today. http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/tilesA.svg The JavaScript animation runs okay in FF, Chrome, and Safari, but the SMIL animation, viewable in Opera or IE/ASV, really helps it out. Watch it for a while, since it changes from time to time. I briefly demonstrated an earlier version at SVG Open as an example of stitching together pieces of linear gradient into non-linear chunks. The concept is illustrated more simply here: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2008/nonagon.png [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] onmousedown() and onclick() at the same time
Take a look at the following; it lets different events on parts of the group be
registered and responded to.
Hope it helps
David
svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=100%
xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink;
script![CDATA[
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg;
xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink;
function all(evt){
if (evt.type==click) alert(evt.target.nodeName)
else
evt.currentTarget.firstChild.nextSibling.setAttributeNS(null,fill,red)
}
//]]
/script
g onmousedown=all(evt); onmouseup=all(evt)
circle onclick=all(evt) fill=black r=5 cx=55 cy=55/
circle onclick=all(evt) fill=black r=5 cx=100 cy=100/
/g
/svg
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
jgfa92004
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:07 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] onmousedown() and onclick() at the same time
Hi,
I have the following svg code :
g onmousedown=down(evt); onmouseup=up(evt);
circle onclick=alert('circle1') fill=black r=5 cx=5 cy=5/
circle onclick=alert('circle2') fill=black r=5 cx=0 cy=0/
/g
My problème is that the onclick event is never called, apparently
because of the onmousedown and onmouseup events called in the first g.
What should I do to be able to call another function when a circle is
clicked ?
Thanks a lot.
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RE: [svg-developers] object javascript into svg
At November 25, 2008 8:00 AM Simone wrote: I have an application that use internet explorer and adobe svg viewer and i need to know if is possible insert a javascript object inside an svg. Yes, certainly. Depending on what you mean you can do it manually as in http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/simpleTemplate.svg you can also script into SVG from HTML as in http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/objectSVG.html which adds to the SVG DOM from events in HTML using script in both places. And you can even, should you wish, insert a script tag into SVG from script running in HTML. In the above example, if you take the script tag out of the SVG and move it to the HTML (removing the escape bracketing and pasting it in as the second script tag) and execute the following: O=document.getElementById(E) SVGDoc = O.ownerDocument; SVGRoot = SVGDoc.documentElement; var S=document.getElementsByTagName(script) SVGRoot.appendChild(S[1]) then it oughta embed that script into the SVG. Most likely the first example (the simplest) is the sort of thing you had in mind Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Slithering through a dash array
Take a look at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/followPath13.svg in a browser that supports SMIL (I've tested in IE/ASV or Opera 9.6). I was trying to make it so that the animation of the dash-offset of a path inside a mask would make an object appear to slither, worm-wise, along a path. I was modeling it (sort of ) after this http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/javascript/bezier/bezier5.html (IE only) that I did when the world was young using VML and no SMIL. I couldn't figure out a way, though, to get the animation to start inside a path, crawling outward from the beginning and expanding and then shrinking back as it reaches the end -- I tried several different settings of the dash array to try to accomplish what I had in mind. Instead, I ended up fading the last half of the worm as soon as its new path was determined through fading it to transparent (before removing it from the DOM). Any ideas on how to get it to do what I want to? thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: other things you might not have the time for
Cool Jake, Thanks, It's way faster than the recursive thing that my student Eric has been working on. Though the quasi-recursive thing (using SMIL) that I have is fast enough, but not very tree like yet. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jake Beard Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:58 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Re: other things you might not have the time for David, something that might be of interest to your project: http://www.stumbleupon.com/toolbar/#topic=Animationurl=http%25253A%2525 2F%25252Fwww.gskinner.com%25252Fblog%25252Fassets%25252FInteractiveElm.h tml A really beautiful example of animated tree budding, unfortunately implemented in flash. Jake On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:49 AM, ddailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: Yes, perfect! thanks David - Original Message - From: Andreas Neumann To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:27 AM Subject: [svg-developers] Re: other things you might not have the time for Hi David, not sure I fully understand your requirement. Are you looking for a progressive drawing of a path geometry? If yes, you can do this by animating the stroke-dash of a path. Here are 2 examples: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/samples/animated_bustrack.shtml and http://pilat.free.fr/english/animer/france.htm Andreas --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , ddailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will hope Frank finds the time to do the things he's talking about -- they all sound quite worthwhile. I, on the other hand, have been playing a bit more: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/followpath6.svg You'll need SMIL support and JavaScript in your SVG to see it, but it's only 100 lines of code so it can be comprehended with a large glance. In the long run, a student and I are interested in animating the growth of a tree, but I wanted to get a simple context sensitive theory of budding. I've slowed down the budding so the brambles don't surround the castle too quickly. It might be nice to use a Lindenmeyer system (sort of a Chomskian grammar in parallel) to generate the budding, but for now it's just branch -- branch + branch, and there is no biophysics (other than edge avoidance). Any clever ideas on how to reveal the shape of a Bezier curve gradually -- namely to draw it as it is being traversed by an animation? cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Another SVG challenge -- virtual weather station
For maybe five years now, I have given my Interface Design students a wide variety of possible final projects to choose from [1]. There are a few several on which nobody has made much progress over the years. Today someone showed me a demo of a new beta desktop environment (called BumpTop [2]) would work. It reminds me of some of what I've been talking about in terms of physics in layout and the superpath idea, and presents some very intriguing concepts for interface. Anyhow, they have a little widget thingy that starts to look a bit like the virtual weather station I've been asking my students to do. Given that the idea is starting to reinvent itself outside of my own little world, I figure it's time to try to challenge some folks other than my students (if for no other reason than to save someone the agony of accidentally trying to patent something for which prior art already exists). So here's the challenge: Some people work in offices that have no windows. Let's build one for them. Make an SVG page that determines the visitor's geographic location (based on IP address, or direct query through a form). Next artificially generate an animated depiction of what the weather outside would look like based on current weather data (e.g. precipitation, wind velocity and temperature data) from the National Weather Service), the visitor's latitude and longitude, the time of day, and the time of year. How light or dark it is should vary as a function time of year, latitude, humidity and cloud cover. For example, if it is currently raining heavily and the wind is blowing very hard, and it is noon in October in Nome, and the temperature is -3 C, the sky will look rather different than similar circumstances at 17:00 in Miami at a warmer temperature. Overall weather categories (like rain, snow, sleet, hail, sandstorms, etc.) should be chosen from some relatively international weather vocabulary if such exists. To depict a windy day when there is no precipitation or airborne sand, one may wish to draw artificial trees and or clouds, to show the effect of the wind. The best entry will receive the largest smile so tell all your friends and neighbors. David [1] http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/cs427/projects.htm [2] BumpTop demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ [3] new features for SVG http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/Spec.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Is inline svg the only option in IE
Dupemenot wrote: I have been trying to work with svg in IE but it seems to work only if its inline(which has its own disadv). Is it possible to work with regular svg in IE? I have installed the plugin (adobe version 3.03) but still no help. Yes, the plugin does work just fine. It could be that your server is incorrectly configured. Take a look (using IE with the plugin) at a simple file such as http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ovaling.svg If you can't see that, then something is wrong with your installation of the plugin. If you can, then it seems something is wrong with the files you've created or with the way in which your server serves them. (btw, the above will not animate in browsers that do not support SVG/SMIL) Hope this helps David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Interactive access to interpolated states of an SVG SMIL animation
This is an interesting question, but I'm not sure my answer will be interesting
or definitive, but let me go ahead and make a stab at it. If I miss something
obvious then others will likely correct the oversight:
My first thought was that it may be relative to what is being animated. For
example in the case of an object following a path, we may use the path length
methods to figure out intermediate points (see for example
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/curve.svg) but in the case of
another SMIL animation, the fine-tuned control of that object within the
animate tag does not (at least as I think about it now) reveal such.
On the other hand (as some people involved in fakeSMIL have probably
leveraged),
tag id=Qanimate attributeName=something values=a1;a2;...;an dur=k
.../tag is pretty much the same as
function animate(){
code to assign v to proper values of [a1,a2,...,an] over dur k
code to terminate loop based on value of dur, tinytime, repeatCount and a
loopcounter
document.getElementById(Q).setAttributeNS(null, something, v)
window.setTimeout(tinytime, animate())
}
(modulo my imprecision)
so another function which takes a parameter from the slider and simply moves
setAttribute of Q to something, in one static moment would probably accomplish
exactly the same thing.
Of course, if the animation is complicated by having multiple attributes
animated for differing durations and the like -- there would have to be a chunk
of code using the above approach.
Can anyone thing of a more purely SMIL-y solution?
cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of tim.becker80
Sent: Mon 11/3/2008 9:31 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Interactive access to interpolated states of an SVG
SMIL animation
Dear all,
I'm working with SVG interactive animation for spatio-temporal data.
The main feature of the application I'm trying to build is a time-
slider capable of interactively controlling a SMIL animation.
Thanks to Kevin and carto.net, no need to build the slider, it's
already available.
Ideally, I'd like the slider to reveal micro-steps, those that are
interpolated in SMIL animation. In other words, the slider should
dynamically control the whole sequence of a SMIL animation's frames,
including the ones that are interpolated.
Does the present specification allow such a level of interactivity
with the temporal dimension?
Is it possible?
Who can give me info on this or direct me towards it?
Thanks,
Tim.
-
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RE: [svg-developers] logarithmic scale in svg
I'm not sure quite what you mean. One could certainly plot a set of axes in which one axis progressed linearly and the other logarithmically; whence one could plot data as (x, y) pairs into that space. Is that what you're hoping to accomplish? DD From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Sait Mesutcan Ýlhaner Sent: Thu 10/30/2008 6:11 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] logarithmic scale in svg Hi guys.We are developing web applications with Ruby on Rails.We use Svg to display graphs.I just wanted to know if we can do logarithmic scale in svg? Do you know if this is possible?Thanks a lot. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] progressive drawing of path -- attempt to use clipPath
ddHowever, what I did think of was the following: how about I dd stick a copy of the first half of the path (with its animated dd stroke-dash) inside a clipPath and then apply the clipPath to the dd original path. Then shouldn't the growth of the clipping region unveil dd the path as well as its fill, concurrently? And Erik wrote: edA mask should be able to do the trick. Inside the mask just draw the path with white edfill and/or stroke. Yes, of course! I changed the clipPath to a mask and it works as I had hoped: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/unveilPath.svg . Thanks again to Erik! And Julien wrote: jr I just noticed that the example were not working in SVG 1.2 players. The jr main reason I couldn't find any way to compute the length of the path in jr 1.2 ... I'm not sure what SVG1.2 players are, but the above works in Opera 9.6 and in IE/ASV3.03. Andreas' bus example does too. FF, Safari and Chrome don't yet support SMIL (though all are nearing that point, as I understand it), so that would be why they are stuck. FF, Safari and Chrome all support getTotalLength() and getPointAtLength() though as can be seen at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/curve.svg . (click a few more times and the path itself starts to wiggle) Two addenda of possible interest on this topic: 1. I was surprised (seeing the examples Andreas provided) to see the animation of stroke-dashoffset actually working in IE/ASV. A couple of years ago, I observed that http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/wiggleline.svg which animates stroke-dasharray only worked in Opera and not in IE. That caused me rather to abandon what I thought was a rather fun approach to things. So I reworked those examples using stroke-dashoffset instead: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/wiggleline2.svg and http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/circles3.svg so they now work both in IE/ASV and Opera (increasing my sense of confidence that they ought to work in the others when they catch up). Animation of stroke-dasharray is a little richer (enabling caterpillar-like stuff), but stroke-dashoffset accomplishes much of the same stuff. Erik once remarked that animated stroke-dasharrays should probably be turned on by default on all our svg objects, though I rather suspect he was joking ;) 2. Current progress on my recent tree drawing initiative can be seen at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/followpath10.svg (I took a step backwards on the elegance of the paths, but now may reintroduce the more elegant strokes of http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/followpath.svg, since the animated mask can be used to unveil more complex objects. David - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] progressive drawing of path -- attempt to use clipPath
Andreas wrote: not sure I fully understand your requirement. Are you looking for a progressive drawing of a path geometry? If yes, you can do this by animating the stroke-dash of a path. Examples are provided: [1] and [2]. Yes; exactly what I was asking for. Pretty clever it is! Now I have a new question - consider the example at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/unveilPath.svg (it uses SMIL so be sure to use a proper browser) I've simplified the basic example as much as I can, and am trying to animate the fill to follow the animation of the path. Clearly this is a kludge. However, what I did think of was the following: how about I stick a copy of the first half of the path (with its animated stroke-dash) inside a clipPath and then apply the clipPath to the original path. Then shouldn't the growth of the clipping region unveil the path as well as its fill, concurrently? Alas, it didn't work. From the spec [3] , we find that The raw geometry of each child element exclusive of rendering properties such as 'fill' http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html#FillProperty , 'stroke' http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html#StrokeProperty , 'stroke-width' http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html#StrokeWidthProperty within a 'clipPath' conceptually defines a 1-bit mask (with the possible exception of anti-aliasing along the edge of the geometry) which represents the silhouette of the graphics associated with that element. This means that the animation of the rendering properties won't affect the footprint of an object inside a clipPath. Too bad. It looks like it's back to script for this. Ultimately I want to simulate the growth of a live tree (the kind with bark) and progressive drawing seemed like a useful approach. Is there a reason (other than cross-browser consistency) that the spec limits the footprint to the raw geometry? An object's silhouette as modified by stroke properties could be quite handy for exactly this purpose. Cheers, David [1] http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/samples/animated_bustrack.shtml [2] http://pilat.free.fr/english/animer/france.htm [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/masking.html#OverflowAndClipProperties [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Papers of tangential interest (perhaps)
At a recent conference in Cincinnati I gave two papers that might deal with some topics of possible interest to the SVG community: 1. How to generate random polygons (with a polynomial time algorithm). If one were interested in generating quasi random scenery (see also my stuff about proposed tags doodle and replicate at [1]) then one might want a quick way to generate random polygons. Earlier techniques for this were either restricted to special subclasses (like starlike clusters) or took too long computationally. A colleague and I present what we think is the first fast way to do this. 2. As fields like Information Technology and Web Science start to find homes in academia, the traditional model of scholarship starts to change to reflect modern ways of distributing information. The typical turnaround time for material to go through review and then appear in print is often too slow a cycle for information in such fields to remain relevant. How then might we still evaluate the quality of scholarship in ways that count toward tenure and promotion? I propose and analyze some new metholodogy. Both papers are found at ACM's SIGITE [2] should anyone be interested. The first is found under Friday Technical Contributions the second under Saturday Scholarship: New models for a new discipline. [1] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/A_place_to_gather_suggestions_and_discussion_of_new_features [2] http://db.grinnell.edu/sigite/sigite2008/Program/program.asp - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Composite filters with masks in Opera FF and IE -- standards and tests
At the web page http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/composite.svg Opera (9.6) and IE/ASV do things surprisingly similar. I had previously suspected not so much similarity would exist ever between complex filters such as feTurbulence with feComposite. The reading of the seed variable in feTurbulence appears to result in a nearly identical rendition. A notable exception is the example using operator arithmetic with a mask applied. The SMIL animation of baseFrequency (coincident with that of seed to provide a large basis for comparison) is quite different between these two SMIL supporting browsers. Let's turn off the SMIL and look at just the still frames: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/composite2.svg Here we may now compare FF as well which supports those filters (Safari and Chrome are not there yet). The chroma in FF and IE are more similar, but the radius in FF and Opera are more similar. In Opera the interaction between the chroma of the mask and those of the image itself seem to be more pronounced. Which implementation is correct? The simpler composite/arithmetic examples may be contrasted in Photoshop by superimposing the images under a difference filter - subtracting one image from another. Two identical images subtracted from one another leave a monochrome black rectangle. In http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/CompositeDiff.jpg We may see the differences between the three renderings. Opera and IE are almost (but not quite) identical. FF is the odd one out. If one rescales the images a wee bit (by shrinking the Opera image while overlaying) one can approach a blacker rectangle, implying that most of the differences observed are due to slight differences in the size of the drawing space. As we begin to talk about cross-browser standards for passing or not passing tests and benchmarks, I have been skeptical that specs will ever nail things down precisely enough to allow bitwise comparison of output. This little experiment ended up closer than I expected it would, but still supports the basic premise that exactness of output may never be pixel perfect across browsers. On the other hand, it seems as though the wild divergence of the case with the mask applied over the composite filter is a bit more divergent than I would have expected, and particularly when the animation is applied. FWIW, the effect in Opera is what I was trying for, though I'm not confident that that's what it should have been. (Ultimately I wanted a fractal shape - not an oval - to be filled with fractal-looking chroma, wiggling cloud-like over time) cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Preferred editing environments SVG et al
Jake wrote: At the moment there is certainly no one-stop-shop IDE for SVG development. It may be conceptually useful, then, to separate development out into several tasks. This way, you can choose which tool is most appropriate for any given task. I would propose that SVG development may be separated at least into: [A,B,C,D,E...] Yes a good insight and the comments you make help with the sort of feature-analytic approach I'm pursuing. In fact, one could consider Boolean membership in each of your categories A through E as constituting five more dimensions for evaluation (perhaps not completely orthogonal one another or to the others). Ultimately human concepts (like the concepts of tasks) are probably neither taxonomic nor multivariate but graph-theoretic or geometric in the sense of a projective geometry or point-set topology (where proximities vary like soap bubbles twisted around on higher-dimensional, or higher-genus, Klein bottles and pretzels. Either a kladistic or a taxonomic approach (both of which have advantages from a navigational perspective) will induce certain statistical stress into our model, but I have generally chosen to evaluate along a set of more or less objective dimensions in hopes that a prospective shopper will know his or her own profile of needs (tasks) a priori. A taxonomy will certainly help those with less knowledge of their own needs steer more quickly toward happiness. I think that in the particular case of SVG, one's reason for boarding the boat may be different than their reasons for staying aboard, implying that the more complex interface provided by the feature analysis may ultimately save a bit of backtracking later on.* It is also an idiosyncracy of my own that I usually end up not fitting into the categories of humans that other humans make**, so I will probably, out of stubbornness, for wont of a better reason, persist with a feature analysis. A very first feature, that I still seek evaluation of, is whether or not those particular products do or do not support SVG. cheers David * I'm thinking of the particular case here where a person who begins as a script writer may later discover they really wish they had the built-in graphical editor that came with product Y somewhere in their coding environment. ** One of my favorite theories of personality has been this: there are two kinds of people: those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't. One can actually generate an infinite class of theories of personality differing from one another in topological structure, but that rather might be considered a departure from the question at hand. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Preferred editing environments [was: RE: [svg-developers] Hey you all. Just]
Hi CPKS, I like HTMLKit and have used it for HTML development, but have never gotten SVG to work in it. I tried again today, thinking maybe progress had been made since last time I tried. It was able to point HTML-Kit at a file and open it. I was then able to preview. But as soon as I made the slightest change, HTML-Kit either ignored it and broke the preview or complained of a syntax error and tried to view the document as HTML. Is there some configuration I am missing? David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CPK Smithies Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:55 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Preferred editing environments [was: RE: [svg-developers] Hey you all. Just] Great question! I start off with Inkscape, which I think is excellent. Once the SVG is largely as I want it, I edit by hand and maybe optimize using some home-grown tools. HTML-Kit is really good on Windows; although it uses IE as its rendering engine, if you have the Adobe plugin installed it will give excellent feedback. I've been using HTML-Kit for years, the developer is highly responsive and it's a fine, stable product. One to watch is Amaya (cross-platform, like Inkscape), which in its latest (somewhat bleeding-edge) implementation offers SVG editing. The drawback with Amaya is that its rendering falls well short of Adobe and the major non-legacy browsers, although its developers are making great strides. It's a sadness to me that HTML-Kit is not available under Linux, to which I am gradually transferring my allegiance. I'd be most interested to hear from others about the various HTML/XML/SVG editors available on that platform. CPKS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: IE woes: reload does not work
Andreas, I've never seen that problem using IE6 and IE7 quite a bit. In fact in IE7/ASV3.03 I can't replicate your problem with the file you mention. I'm still running Windows XP though. Here's a fairly complex script that has always seemed to survive reloading just fine. http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/graphs30.svg If it fails to reload on your IE, then it may be something funky with your IE/Windows configuration? cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helder Magalhães Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:06 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: IE woes: reload does not work I have a couple of SVG projects which involve scripting. They work fine when I first load the file. On the second (or any subsequent) page loads the scripts don't work any more. Since most of the projects are rather complex it is hard to find the cause. [...] Here is one of the examples that only works on the first page load: http://www.carto.net/williams/yosemite/ [...] The issues only appears in IE and in no other browser. Weird, in deed! :-| Without testing myself (I'd need to download all referenced files to create a local environment), I'd suggest placing the externally referenced resources (script files) and embed scripts withing a defs element: it might help as the issue seems to be the initialize event being triggered before the environment is properly setup. I've tested with IE7+ASV6 and the issue seems to reproduce also. Hope this helps, Helder Magalhães [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: IE woes: reload does not work
Andreas, Yes, I've reloaded a dozen or so times without problems. Zooming works and all. Makes me want to get out on the trails. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:59 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: IE woes: reload does not work can you reload http://www.carto.net/williams/yosemite/ two or multiple times and it always works? Andreas I've never seen that problem using IE6 and IE7 quite a bit. In fact in IE7/ASV3.03 I can't replicate your problem with the file you mention. I'm still running Windows XP though. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] shadow projections -- access to pixel values SVG-IG
Is this what you had in mind : http://leunen.d.free.fr/prog-blur.svg ?
Yes,
it is an approximation of a real progressive blur. But not perfect, and
it
cannot be achieved with a filter
[Agreed; and yes that is what I had in mind.]
Here is another approximation on the x-axis blur only :
http://leunen.d.free.fr/progr-blur2.svg. The drawback of this workaround
is
to be non-scalable, a pity for *S*vg.
[this link seems to be broken]
So, I'm really stuck I guess.
I have to hope that the svg-ig will convince the wg to add this feature
to
svg 1.2. (thanks for forwarding)
[joining the svg-ig would be one way to help in the convincing J]
Speaking of new feature, and to avoid that the filter module misses
some
(features), I wonder how this kind of effect would make sense :
script
function myEffect(in, x, y) {
// compute and return the RGBA color
// of the destination pixel,
// with full access to the source raster (in)
}
/script
feCustom in=SourceGraphic function=myEffect /
This would allow me to program my own progressive blur, skew,... or any
other crazy stuffs that come in my mind.
in would be an object that gives access to the rgba colors of the
input
pixels. x and y, the coordinates of the target pixel. Maybe other
parameters would be useful, but i can't think of any others.
It would make the filter modul turing-complete.
What do you think ? Does it make any sense ?
If it does, should I forward this to the swg-wg...
[For some years now, the request for access to pixel values in SVG has
come up. [1],[2],[3]. Occasionally, I've heard (maybe from the HTML WG
folks) that there are security reasons for not allowing access to pixel
values in web pages. I don't really know why there would be, since one
could use a same-domain policy to prevent any mischief it seems. I think
the presentation of a compelling set of use cases might be what is
needed. Maybe some of the implementers could comment? One of the things
I think would be very handy and useful is to have a bitmap to
vectorization filter (either implemented by the browser) or accessible
through script. I would like to be able to take a bitmap and a few
parameters like smoothness and difference-threshold as input and receive
as output a series of curves (like paths) representing a contour (such
as discussed in [4] ). Inkscape and Adobe Illustrator and Adobe
Streamline, as well as NIH image all have those abilities to some
degree. The ability to make on-the-fly animated sequences from such
vectorizations of bitmaps done client-side, would extend our power
greatly. It could also be quite practical when it comes to data sensing
in the field.
Being able to bitblt rectangles of imagery around the screen (as in [3])
might save lots of memory in making jig-saw puzzles, and this also would
involve some access to pixel value. Knowing how far pixels have actually
moved in an feDisplacementMap would also be handy.
In general, just being able to do client-side image analysis would be
handy, and I think I remember hearing that access to client side images
through something like input type=file is being contemplated within
SVG??? That would ultimately improve security concerns it seems since
right now the web app has to upload bitmaps to a server (through who
knows what intermediaries enroute) rather than allowing direct access
by the client.
reco
David]
[1] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/52310
[2] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/53522
[3] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/53849
[4] http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/Spec.html
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RE: [svg-developers] New to SVG: why the event target is not elment 'test3'?
Well, the behavior you see is as I would expect.
If you were to move your onclick=showCoord(evt) to the superordinate
g id='canvas' then target and currentTarget will be different. By
placing the evt listener on the top, but invisible rectangle you've made
it the only thing receiving the event. Also, get rid of the
pointer-events thing. I cannot see a purpose for it.
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of abel.zhangyu
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:40 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] New to SVG: why the event target is not elment
'test3'?
Hi All,
I am a SVG newbie. i just created following quite simple svg
document and expect when the mouse is clicking on rectangle 'test3', i
can get the rectangle 'test3' from event's target attribute. but the
actual result is either evt.target or evt.currentTarget always return
rectangle 'test2' object.
could you explain why it always returns 'test3' instead of 'test2'?
thank you very much!
svg viewBox=0 0 1024 768 width=100% height=100%
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg;
xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; zoomAndPan=disable
xml:space=preserve
script
![CDATA[
function showCoord(evt) {
alert(evt.target.getAttribute(id) + source: +
evt.currentTarget.getAttribute(id) + phase: + evt.eventPhase );
}
]]
/script
g id=canvas
g id=
rect id=test4 x=145 y=95 width=105 height=105
style=fill:none/
rect id=test3 x=150 y=100 width=100 height=100
fill=blue/
/g
rect id=test2 x=0 y=0 width=100% height=100%
onclick=showCoord(evt) pointer-events=all style=fill:none/
/g
/svg
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RE: [svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??
Hi, Try the following in either IE/Adobe plugin or Opera 9 or above or WebKit nightly build: svgxmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=100% xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; circle id=X r=50 cx=100 cy=100 animate attributeName=opacity dur=3s values=1;0;0 repeatCount=indefinite/ /circle circle id=X r=50 cx=200 cy=100 fill=red animate attributeName=opacity dur=3s begin=1.5s values=1;0;0 repeatCount=indefinite/ /use text font-size=12 x=50 y=20 fading stuff with SMIL/text /svg I think it's sorta what you have in mind. You can also control svg visibility through javascript (by getting the object through DOM) and then modifying attributes (either opacity or visibility or display) in the middle of a window.setTimeout. The above use of the animate tag is a part of SMIL. I've got exactly 1.7 zillion examples at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/. Hope this helps David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of narendra sisodiya Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:35 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ?? While drawing svg in any editor, there is a loss of time axis. I am trying developing a whiteboard application, but when teacher draw two rectangle, both are displayed at same time, there is no difference in drawing sequence, I want to have a screen casting effect but with svg, Is there any standard for storing time axis information, I am trying to define these thing in xml format much similar to this - http://techfandu.org/eduvid/timing.xml is utilised by this automated slideshow http://techfandu.org/eduvid/eduvid-first-demo.html by JavaScript period timeout event to hide and show the slides, same thing I want to extend to svg, where each svg element will be added to dom dynamically with such timeout event generate by time.xml file. Any suggestions, -- ‚€€€[ Narendra Sisodiya ]€€ƒ http://narendra.techfandu.org http://www.lug-iitd.org http://twitter.com/eduvid „[ +91-93790-75930 ]€€… [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] shadow projections
I actually quite like the solution you have, but also agree that additional features would be useful. I'd be quite interested to see an inverse displacement map, since I have gotten the suspicion that the spec may be just fuzzy enough here that the way browsers implement varies considerably, in ways that might make inversion tricky perhaps. just a suspicion, since I haven't really isolated those differences systematically. The SVG Working Group is already thinking about some non-affine transforms like perspective tranforms and the SVG Interest Group is attempting to help filter some of the discussion pertaining to suggestions for new features. See, for example, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0108.html regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Leunen Sent: Mon 9/29/2008 5:44 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] shadow projections Thanks for your reply, feOffset tends to be so slow (and I'm not quite sure why) I guess it's an implementation problem. I can't see why it should be slower than a translation transform. Your example didn't come through Sorry. Here is my quick example : http://leunen.d.free.fr/shadow-proj.svg http://leunen.d.free.fr/shadow-proj.svg Viewable in Opera. (don't ask me why the identity displacement seems to be BB... shouldn't it be 80 ? My trialserrors brought me to that. It's either me who don't understand displacement maps fully, or a bug in Opera...?) the best approach I've thought of would involve something like this: create two versions one more blurred and the other less, and then use a mask that fades from one to the other from top to bottom. Interesting. But I'm really looking for a pure filter effect. No scripting, no masking. And (I'm not sure but) I think that technically, it would not be quite the same result, compared to a variable stdDeviation. Sorta like http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/distort.svg http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/distort.svg ? That's going to be hard to control, and I'm not sure quite how you'd invert the displacement map. Yes, like that. I haven't been able to build an example, yet. These displacement maps are not easy to manipulate. By inverted displacement map, I mean another map that does the exact opposite displacement. With the svg filters coming soon in CSS, I guess many developers will want to apply other funny effects to their html content. It would be cool if this kind of shadow projection will be possible one day, without scripting, and without changing the content. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Fun with i-phones (a couple of ideas) -- [web-apps, 3D-accelerometers, accessibility, 3D-canvas]
Explanation: This is only vaguely SVG-ish but has to do with events, web-apps, interface and drawing. I thought the SVG-developers group would have significant expertise here, and possible interest. (I'm also not sure if a posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a non-member would actually work or not -- and whether or not it would be welcome from outside). It is long, so unless the topics in the subject line actually interest you, please don't worry about reading it. I got an i-phone a couple of weeks ago and have registered as a higher education iphone developer-something-or-other. Have only started to unpack the developers' goodies. It looks like hello world is a significant fraction of a megabyte, so am not sure how quick I'll be to actually crawl into that mind set. The reason I got it is that I teach courses at the senior level in an undergraduate CS/IT program in interface design. The idea of having multiple points of touch has always appealed to me. After working on the PLATO system as a grad student where we read lots of Minsky and Richard Karp, and getting to see the Xerox Star system in one of my prof's offices, I had begun to develop ideas about rich interfaces. My reaction to the first Mac I saw in '84 was what only one mouse? I will clearly need two. [to sculpt anything three dimensional, for example]. The apple folks that I had access to at the time were goodhearted salesfolk who nodded and smiled. Finally, now, as I approach my dotage, I might have the opportunity to program with more than one point of contact with the user. And 3D accelerometers! What fun will that be? How might we use 3D accelerometers to carve our space into wonderful shapes? Now my friends at Opera have been telling me for more than a year now about all the wonderful stuff they have in Opera including the 3D canvas. I haven't had time to play, nor even to learn about it yet, but it can't be much more complex than abc or xyz now can it? So, I guess as I try to help my university figure out whether or not its expense in buying me an iphone has paid off, I need to see if I can make the little gadget do anything. I have two ideas. 1. Make it into a 3D mouse for an Opera 3D canvas. 2. Use it to make a gestural semantics that a) works better than a keyboard and/or b) works really well for folks already conversant with ASL. Let me explicate a little and then see if anyone has either suggestions or a willingness to participate in such an endeavor. 1. One of the little apps that ships as an example (I still remember what wonderful things Sun shipped with JDK1.1) is just a little time-based plotter of acceleration data in x, y and z axes. Differentiate that curve twice, it seems and you've got locations in 3space (though the curve may be so discontinuous that the derivatives become screwy -- so then smooth the curve first). How fast can one stream that data, and through what protocol (HTTPRequest?) and port (80?) does the little i-phone actually send data? Can I plop it out quickly enough so that it could be streamed to a server and thence through ajax or json (or just plain old cgi-text) to a browser that I could draw into a 3D canvas running in Opera (or Safari or whoever else implements a 3D canvas?) Or has anybody implemented enough of the websockets stuff yet that we could do it that way, with presumably greater speed? Some may say that I should just get a 3D mouse of some sort and hook it via infrared/microwave/radio directly to a device on which I can draw, but that's hardly as much fun and considerably lower level than I would like to play. Having it web-accessible means it can be broadcast and that's rather nice too. Though I know, there's always closed circuit TV, but again I don't really care about that. The fundamental question is how can we get those data from a gadget (like an i-phone) to a web page quickly? 2. The keyboards on these little gadgets are way too small for someone who grew up decades before the generation of texting YMKWIM (you must know what I mean) While I appreciate the parsimony of highly fluent texting, I would rather learn Chinese or polish my Mongolian if I had the time. One time, when I was a young psychology and math professor, I was invited to a party of people all of whom (except me) spoke ASL. I watched as three people all talked and understood one another all at the same time. I was amazed. They said it was commonplace. I knew of research suggesting that the baud rate of the visual system was considerably higher (like 100 fold) larger than that of the auditory system, though I also knew how some had disputed that research. But here was something remarkable. Three people speaking and listening concurrently! So here's the idea: instead of typing with a tiny keyboard can we use the 3D accelerometers to convey fundamental units of meaning (such as, but better than, the alphabet)? Gesture(X+Y+)(X-Z+)(Y+) = generic
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Of rainbows and doughnuts
Hi Frank, Very cool. I'm anxious to try out all your suggestions! cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Frank Bruder Sent: Sun 9/28/2008 10:22 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Of rainbows and doughnuts --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , ddailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Apologies for the cross-posting but there are folks in each place who are not in both, and relevance might exist for folks in either place) I started wondering yesterday if I could make a color wheel. In the page at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/ http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/ rainbow.svg (You'll have to use either Opera or IE/ASV owing to the SMIL) I started with a simple rainbow and worked on through until I had a spectal doughnut (which was sort of what I wanted), but I encountered several problems on route that I thought might be interesting to discuss. The problems (with labels) are discussed a bit in the document above, but some additional explanation seems appropriate: A. The basic spectrum itself is just a gradient with six stops (at RYGCB and M). Interpolation between any pair of those stops, I reasoned would avoid the boundaries of the nonlinearlity in RGB - HSB space. It is, accordingly, conjectured that fewer than six stops in the gradient will not produce a rainbow without leaving out certain values of hue. This plot is sufficient to drive a real-estate conserving color picker such as seen at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ rainbow.svg where the Hue plot is expanded as fine tuning below. HSB plots seem to work for humans better than RGB plots but the ones used by Photoshop and other apps take up too much room on screen. The natural question here arises that the plot is not balanced for the human perceiver, where equal distances in RGB space are not perceived as equal in perceptual space. What woud the natural generalization to something like CIEXYZ be? B. The stops used (with SMIL animation) in the animation below have been manually copied and pasted. The use element only allows graphics elements, groups, other uses and svg's, but oftentimes it would be nice to be able to reuse parts of filters, gradients and the like. With all the examples on the above page that re-copy several flocks of stops does anyone see a way, short of script, to save on the keystrokes and file size? - Look into documentation on XML. To write something once and use it multiple times in a document you can define entities in an internal subset in a document type declaration. Another option would be XSLT. A gradient can also reuse the stops of another gradient by giving it an xlink:href attribute referencing the other gradient. C. The animation of the second rainbow consists of six separate animations which (like addition modulo 6) roll colors in synchrony across the six stops. The animation is not, however smooth. The topic is quite reminiscent of the discussion of cylindrical rotation at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2008/ http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2008/ edges_of_plausibility.htm . Is there a way to make that rolling smooth? Does it also not seem rather wasteful of markup to have to create six separate animate tags each with six values inside to accomplish a relatively simple thing? - You could animate the gradient's x1 and x2 values, and set spreadMethod to repeat. D. The smooth looking animation just uses a trick: make two cycles of the entire spectrum (12 stops in a gradient); make a rectangle twice the size of the view-window (defined by a clipPath) to which the 12-stop gradient is applied, and then drag the rectangle through the clipPath using SMIL. It works, but it seems so troublingly inelegant. - See my comment on C. E. An obvious approach to making a color wheel would be to use a radial gradient rather than a linear one. (Again it would be nice to be able to reuse all those stops defined in the linear gradient along with the embedded animations since the only difference is that we're changing the container (the gradient) of those stops.) The hassle is that the color bands emanate outward from the center of the gradient. (I'm reminded of the radial blur in Photoshop that allows directionality to either be spin or zoom -- wouldn't it be nice to just have a flag on our radial gradients that converts the layout from spin (the default) to zoom (in which the stops would be layed out radially rather than concentrically)? - A lot of drawing applications can create this kind of gradient, but it's not included in SVG yet. It's such a basic feature that I'm sure it will be added to a future version of the SVG specification, but for now I don't see an elegant way to
RE: [svg-developers] shadow projections
David [Leunen] wrote: I'm missing two filters in SVG. Or I don't know if they exist or not. Filters are just complicated enough it's not always easy to tell. Based on the questions you've asked, it sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's there and what isn't. The first one is a simple transform. I don't want to apply the transform directly to the svg element, but rather to an intermediate filter primitive result. It is already possible for translations with feOffset, but not for other kinds of transformations, afaik. I think it would be great to make shadow projections (*skew*) and reflection (negative *scale*). Interesting idea. This would not be hard to implement with script: grab the thing from the DOM; clone it; remove it from its parent (to simulate a z-order move to front), append the clone with a transform to the parent, then reappend the original. Doing it through markup would be handy, though feOffset tends to be so slow (and I'm not quite sure why) (look at this attempt to move slices of an image without making copies using feOffset http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/later/offsets7.svg to see slow) so feOffset with a transform would be really slow. There is a workaround using feDisplacementMap (see example below). But this filter has some issues with performance, ease of use and I can't see how to make the map dimension relative to the filtered object. Your example didn't come through (yahoogroups doesn't allow attachments I think), so you may have to put on a server somewhere and include a link. The problem with feDisplacementMap that I can see is that while it can be used to deform objects, the deformation is a bit unpredictable. See attempt1 http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/later/displace2.svg attempt2 http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/later/displace4.svg attempt3 http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/later/displace7.svg The second feature I'm missing is a blur with a variable stdDeviation (depending on the pixel location). I know I can make the stdDeviation different for each axis, but it's not what I want. I want the blur to be null at the bottom part, and increase progressively toward the top of the object. This also would be very useful for shadow projections (of a vertical object on a horizontal ground). Agreed. This would be cool and agreed that it is not to be done quite the way you're talking about. I've thought about it before and the best approach I've thought of would involve something like this: create two versions one more blurred and the other less, and then use a mask that fades from one to the other from top to bottom. (with SMIL enabled browser http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/mask3.svg does something like this but without the blurring) The only workaround I can think of would involve a displacement map that would enlarge the bottom part (a trapezoidal-like transform), apply the blur effect, and then apply the inverted displacement map in order to have the shape back in place. Sorta like http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/distort.svg ? That's going to be hard to control, and I'm not sure quite how you'd invert the displacement map Maybe I'm confused about what you mean. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] SVG support in IE
This thread was on my mind again, and as I was trying to figure out if there was a way to write to Adobe about its policy (since my students still need the SVG viewer sometimes), I thought I really oughta reread what the policy (accessible through Adobe SVG Viewer End of Life FAQ http://www.adobe.com/svg/pdfs/ASV_EOL_FAQ.pdf . - I hope that link works when pasted like this) actually says: Adobe does not currently have plans to remove Adobe SVG Viewer from the Adobe.com download area. Adobe recognizes that customers have built Web applications that depend on ASV being available for download, and although Adobe does not plan to develop ASV further, we plan for the existing versions to be available for download as long as our customers rely on them. I think I knew that already but as the year ticks, along I found myself getting nervous. So, for my purposes that means utterly no change in Adobe's stance for the past n years for some n greater than zero. I'm such an enthusiast. My guess is that companies are going to be tripping over one another to talk up their SVG support within a year. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John C. Turnbull Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 4:45 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] SVG support in IE I am trying to determine the exact state of SVG support in Internet Explorer 6, 7 and 8 and beyond. It seems that for IE 6 and 7 there is only Adobe SVG Viewer which, according to Adobe, is not going to be around beyond 2009 and may indeed not even be available after then for downloading. There was some talk that IE 8 would include native SVG support but clearly the rise of Silverlight has blown away that idea in a classic Microsoft You will use only our technology move. So where does that leave SVG developers? Is it a major concern that SVG support in what is by far the most popular browser may only exist until 2009? Almost all the other major browser vendors are ramping up their SVG support in a positive move and perhaps this will increase the market position of those browsers but we can't escape the fact that most people out there are using IE. Any comments? Perhaps there are other SVG support environments for IE that I don't know about? Thanks, -JCT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] An i can do that in SVG challenge?
Hi Ruud! you wrote: http://bomvol.com (bomvol means: chock full) An apt title. I looked at the first couple of pages thinking - yeah a path here and a SMIL here okay... By about page 8 (with some of the overlays and underlays and layouts and cut outs and transition effects) I was starting to groan thinking about all the work it would take. By page twelve I called for my wife to come take a look at this cool stuff I had just seen Very fun stuff... thanks for the link! I think we could do something like it, but different and better, with SVG, but it'd take staff. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: SVG support detection in browserland
Jeff wrote: I prefer, where possible to use the HTML object element with HTML fallback for browsers that doesn't support SVG (older browsers and IE). See menu.svgz on my site for an example (http://blog.codedread.com/) One hassle here is that IE/ASV blocks access to much of scripting through object. See http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/javascript/frames/objectTest.html embed is ione/i of the only ways I've been able to verify that SVG - HTML scripting will work across browsers. A few remarks, though that qualify this: 1. Dave Raggett has explained to me some ways of tricking IE to work with object. I still have to experiment with this 'til I understand it. 2. Some have argued that Adobe is no longer relevant in the SVG world since they are dropping out in Jan 09: hence eliminating the need to worry about IE/ASV in our tutorials and advice. Are they really dropping out then? Usually if we beg nicely, they have changed their minds, or so it has seemed. 3. How big is the installed base of SVG users who are actually using IE/ASV? Any estimates? If we multiply P(Illustrator ownership) by P(IE usage) x #users, this would give a strict lower bound and it is still, I suspect, a larger number than some browsers can claim for market share. 4. IE/ASV is still, with Opera, one of the two most fully featured supporters of the spec. It and Opera are the only places to look at SMIL and the only places to see many filter effects. It is the only place, so far as I can tell, to see some of the compound filter effects. Perhaps we're labeling it irrelevant a bit too soon. Adobe withdrawing support for downloads would only mean that they are putting all their bananas in the Flash boat, or that they've bought stock in Silverlight or that they have simply grown tired of graphical computing. It doesn't mean that the installed IE/ASV base is going to migrate quickly, particularly if they've come to rely on SMIL in significant ways, or as in some cases if their corporate hierarchy is allergic to open source (which has been documented) or foreign software (which is just a suspicion of mine ). 5. Using objectparam/object as in http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/objectSVG.html is one way to surmount the blood brain barrier of cross-DOM scripting in IE/ASV. (Dave R. points out that that doesn't validate according to HTML4, but I'll bet it does, or at least oughta, according to HTML5 and students understand things better if I don't use irrelevant attributes like language=JavaScript which really should be the default, que no?) Cheers, David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Non-scalable text labels in scalable graphics?
My first thought was to create some sort of class or even a range of
object id's that would allow all the things you want not to scale to be
identified, and then to set the scale, on those, independently from the
scale of everything else, through script.
Then I thought that I had seen a noscale attribute value somewhere in
the SVG spec. A little bit of poking around revealed that with vector
effects in SVG1.2 there is a 'non-scaling-stroke' associated with vector
effects (see http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/attributeTable.html). I
thought there was another way and suspect there still may be. Seems like
your situation is common enough that one might want a fairly ubiquitous
attribute called @scale - scale=normal (the default) and scale=none
when things like text and boundaries should not scale. One can imagine
that authors might have (for whatever reason) other objects (like
distant mountains that we might like to stay in the background). Maybe
@scale should have a number scale=1 means it scales normally like all
content, scale=0 means it is unaffected by zooming, anything in
between (scale =.25) would be a multiplier. That would give declarative
access to what we might call sleeping beauty space* (or Scooby doo
space)- like in http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/balloon.svg
where different layers have different virtual viewports.
I still think we may be overlooking something that's already there in
SVG 1.1.
David
*In recognition of Disney's quite elegant usage of 2+epsilon-dimensional
space or of Scooby Doo's quite inelegant usage of it.
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of gfc22
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:28 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Non-scalable text labels in scalable
graphics?
Thanks Peter,
That looks good for what I asked for. But unfortunately I also want some
lines to remain the same
width under scaling.
So I've gone ahead and excluded the relevant texts and lines from the
scaled group, then computed
and assigned their required new coordinates after every scale operation.
Laborious, but it seems to
be the only way - but I'm a relative newby at SVG, so maybe someone
knows a better way.
The problem is that it isn't possible to exclude the font size or
stroke-width from scaling operations
in SVG.
George
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , Peter Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does this do what you want?
?xml version=1.0?
svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=100% height=100%
circle cx=50 cy=200 r=2 stroke=green stroke-width=1
fill=green/
g id=Labels transform=translate(50,200) font-size=20pt
fill=red
textText scales, but doesn't change font size./text
/g
script
![CDATA[
function SyncUI()
{
var root = document.rootElement;
var scaleUI = 1/parseFloat(root.currentScale);
var obj = document.getElementById(Labels);
obj.setAttribute(font-size, (20 * scaleUI) + pt);
}
document.rootElement.addEventListener( SVGScroll, SyncUI, false );
document.rootElement.addEventListener( SVGResize, SyncUI, false );
document.rootElement.addEventListener( SVGZoom, SyncUI, false );
SyncUI();
// ]]
/script
/svg
--- On Sun, 9/7/08, gfc22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: gfc22 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [svg-developers] Non-scalable text labels in scalable
graphics?
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 8:48 AM
I expect this is a FAQ, but Google doesn't offer anything relevant:
I have text labels in scalable SVG groups. I want the positions of the
labels to scale with the
other elements but not their text size. This must be a common
requirement. Suggestions
welcome.
George
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RE: [svg-developers] Re: Searchable Text and images
Hi Robert, In case anyone tries to follow the https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330045. they should leave off the period at the end of that string. The example underlying the bug report comes from one of Doug Schepers' tests and uses an iframe with src pointing to an svg file. I wanted to read up on this, since I'd have been surprised if the browsers could read through the iframe used in Doug's example to actually find text inside the SVG. IE/ASV, FF, and Opera did not. Safari, interestingly, did. The result generalizes: getting rid of the iframe and just testing directly in svg gives the same results across these four browsers. While I would agree that Safari's behavior is what we'd all probably like here, is the utility of the find function spec-ed out in SVG, or across DOM's in HTML (HTML ß SVG through iframe/object/embed/image)? Does anyone know the status of search engine support for textual descriptors (either in text or in desc and title)? cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Longson Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:55 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Searchable Text and images --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , selma_ikiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have an inkscape file with images and text overlays which annotate the features in images. I want those text objects to be searchable in SVG. For example when I open the SVG in Firefox (or any SVG viewer) and type blah blah, I want the text Blah Blah to be highlighted. But I cannot seem to get this work. Even though the page source option shows those text fields, a search does not find them. Any suggestions? Thanks, Selma Searching SVG text is not yet supported in Firefox https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330045. Patches are always welcome though :-) Best regards Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] javascript mouse events and style.setproperty
Hi,
I think this is a bit different than what you have in mind but give a look at
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/makeDragDrop.svg
The code is rather simple, I think, though I'm always delighted by suggestions
on how to simplify things.
It seems in your second post on this that you may be interested in implementing
something like a getElementsByClassName. My recollection is that some W3C group
(maybe the DOM group, maybe the CSS group, maybe another??) is adding that to a
spec of some sort and that some browsers may have already come up with a hook
to allow such. I'm sure some JavaScript libraries (like maybe dojo) provide
that for us.
regards,
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of russellgum
Sent: Sat 8/30/2008 5:03 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] javascript mouse events and style.setproperty
I have an svg application where a click on a polygon changes its color and sets
up an entry
to a database. This works fine except when I want to change my mind and
unselect the
polygon and change its color back to the original.
I tried to use a mouseup to select the polygon that needs to have its color
reset. This
sortof works but the click event also triggers the mouseup function so I get
extraneous
data in my database.
I tried up using a mousedown event to select and a mouseup to unselect, but
this is very
dependent on the users moving the mouse into or out of the polygon. This does
work,
however.
So, question 1 is: Is there a better way to select and then unselect a polygon?
Next
I tried to determine the fill color of a polygon via javascript but had little
success.
function restoreColor(evt) {
objet=evt.target;
att=objet.attributes;
var state = document.getElementById(att.item(0).value);
var style = state.style;
//var oldcolor = att.item(4).value); (this is the original polygon color)
//alert(oldcolor); (this does not work)
style.setProperty(fill,blue, ); (for some reason -- ie my lack of
expertise in
javascript -- I could not replace blue with att.item(4).value)
chaine = chaine+'field='+ att.item(0).value +;
alert(chaine + + chaine);
}
Question 2 is how can I define a variable that would allow me to replace blue
in the
example above with the original polygon fill which is att.item(4).value
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RE: [svg-developers] Drawing Stars
Here are another couple of approaches to drawing stars. You'll have to use Opera or IE/ASV -- something that supports SMIL: 1. http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/stars3.svg 2. http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/svgopen2008/makestars4.svg Cheers, David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Frank Bruder Sent: Mon 8/25/2008 2:04 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Drawing Stars --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Richard Pearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes filters do strange things, for example in the Book 1 title page, the background should be black with stars (using a filter because I couldn't be bothered drawing loads of stars - and it also saved bandwidth) but instead it looks like a still photo of boiling mercury. Hi, Richard, this doesn't pertain to the topic of the thread anymore, but for a script based alternative solution to the specific problem of creating stars have a look at http://frankbruder.fr.ohost.de/FeSVGDoc/save.xhtml#exampleStarrySky Of course, avoiding filters would be a poor solution, and is not a solution at all if you can do it only in some frames. I'd like to add that filters are a feature a partial implementation of which can be worse than no implementation. It is well possible to create a graphic with filters which still does make sense, but is less compelling, when filters are ignored. When some filter primitives are implemented, but others not; or when filters work, but get messed up in dynamic documents then the image gets broken. With SMIL animation it's the same, so I hope not ever to see incomplete SMIL animation support in a Firefox release version. I once tested the FakeSmile greasemonkey script on some of my animated graphics, and it was a mess, because additive animation wasn't supported. Regards Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Status of SVG filters in Safari (or cellphones)
Does anyone with their ears close the the ground in the WebKit or Safari development know where those folks are with regards to implementing filter? Safari 3.1.2 doesn't seem to do even the simplest of filters at the moment (id est, feGaussianBlur), so I wondered what I can tell folks about the future of that browser's support when I talk about the subject next week. On an allied subject, other than cellphones that run Opera, are their any other little gadgets that currently run filters? Thanks in advance for any info, David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: SVG countdown
I believe I misled you, Rémi. I don't think there is such a thing as I described, and like you I am complaining that there is not. Sorry. Chaals' solution using symbol and then rotating the href:xlink declaratively may be as close as one can come to what you are looking for, though I did also find myself complaining, when I saw it, that I could find no way to do something like symbol text id=generic x=0 y=240 font-family=Verdana font-size=55 fill=red generic/text /symbol use href:xlink=#generic childValue=4/use use href:xlink=#generic childValue=3/use use href:xlink=#generic childValue=2/use use href:xlink=#generic childValue=1/use cannot be used just to conserve keystrokes. Again there is no childValue in the spec (nor is there a DOMValue=firstChild.nodeValue ), but I don't know of anything that would accomplish the equivalent. The whole topic of how far declarative animation, in the context of a script-free markup language like SVG or HTML seems rather appealing as a conceptual endeavor. I think that with just a few things added in here or there, it might be made Turing complete, hence providing a conceptual alternative to the conventional imperative model. Whether humans can actually do declarative programming, or whether we might have to hire primates to do the job for us (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/12/03/chimp.memory.ap/index.html?eref=time_tech), seems somewhat unresolved, but the appeal seems to become apparent once one has played with it a while. By the way, as Chaals pointed out to me, id=5 might work in browsers, but it is probably not okay to have a number as the value of an id. It felt funny as I was doing it, and it probably is. Hope this makes sense, David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of rémi Sent: Mon 12/10/2007 6:19 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: SVG countdown Hi, Le Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:21:39 -0500, ddailey a écrit: In terms of being able to do something like that declaratively, it seems like the question has come up before, but I honestly can't remember if someone suggested a solution that would actually work anywhere -- I rather doubt it -- something like text id=5 x=0 y=240 font-family=Verdana font-size=55 fill=red5 animate DOMValue=firstChild.nodeValue values=5;4;3;2;1 dur=5s //text Sounds really nice but I couldn't find something related to in the specs and google sends me back to... this message ! According to what I quickly read animate and set are only to animate or set a single attribute or property over a time. Thanks. Rémi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] svg clock for mobile
Yes what he said :) DD From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Erik Dahlström Sent: Wed 10/24/2007 4:07 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] svg clock for mobile On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:47:59 +0200, ddailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm... Thomas in Opera the current time for your link shows just fine (though it starts at midnight in IE). A similar thing http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/clock.svg also using SMIL seems to show current time in both IE and Opera. In looking at your code, I believe this is why: you use JavaScript to reset the rotation of each of the clock hands: var h_hrs = owner.getElementById(hourHand); h_hrs.setAttributeNS(null, transform, rotate(+ (30*hrs+0.5*min) +,105,105)); You should note that !-- isn't really a comment in the script, see e.g. http://lachy.id.au/log/2005/05/script-comments. Since you have specified additive=sum on the hourHand animateTransform element that means that the animateTransform transform will get postmultiplied on the hourHand transform. Then since the comment in the script wasn't really treated as a comment it will set the time also. So a simple fix is: make the comment in the script a real comment, by using /* ... */ or // ... Either way worked fine for me, that is either using setCurrentTime or setting the transforms. If you do both however, then you get both. Also it won't work in IE/ASV because type=text/ecmaScript has an uppercase S. Replacing that with text/ecmascript makes the script run fine. The problem (I suspect), at least in IE and possibly Nokia, is that the animateTransform that you've attached to the objects uses its own default rotation angles (specified through markup) to override any attributes associated with the rotation itself. That is the transform=rotate(string)is being clobbered by the animation itself. Why Opera wouldn't do that, Idon't know, but that browser has the sometimes uncanny ability to figureout what we are trying to accomplish. According to the SVG spec[1] the transform on the target element shouldn't get overwritten when additive=sum is used in an animateTransform, but you can use additive=replace to get that effect if you want. I think both ASV and Opera behaves this way, at least the simple examples in the spec looked the same when I tried them. Cheers /Erik [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/animate.html#AnimateTransformElement -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Carousel Animation - any way declaratively?
Bruce wrote: The next fun one would be accurate display of elliptical motion - where the velocity is directly related to the distance from the center of attraction - think planetary motion. It is still amazing what you can do with the standard SVG spec. Agreed. I fooled around with something similar to this a while back see http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/SMIL5.svg a series of allied experiments can be found in the SMIL section at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/Newlist.htm cheers, David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
