Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
HI again, On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 18:28, skatethere wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: altglyph?? What is altglyph? It is a method to refer to a glyph by id, rather than unicode. See the example I posted earlier. It's quite a bit more cumbersome than unicode entities. ok I get it s I don't know enough about private codepage definition to make a s recommendation on how to proceed when the approved codepages don't s suit your purpose. Yes, PUA is another possibility. PUA? what is PUA? Private Use Area codepoints. For example, E000..F8FF are available for private use, and have no standard definition. That would certainly be better than overloading the Latin blocks, as Feta does. Ok i got it. all this disscussion aside I need a high quality music font with unicode encodings. which is my best bet. I think you'll need to do a fair amount of work with fontforge or an XML editor to create the font you're looking for. I think the easiest approach would be to use the private block at E000..F8FF and remap the feta glyph-names to codes in that range. I don't know how lilyxml references fonts currently (by glyph-name in CWN?), Neither do I, I am at this point begining this whole process. Remember we are falling back on display/print using lilypond until we have a viable approach to using xsl/svg. but your stylesheet would just need to contain the mapping between its current references and your newly defined unicodes. As was mentioned previously(first transfer the abc lilypond note names to a more usable format and then proceed with transformations). Harder would be to modify glyphs (perhaps including grouping and transforming existing paths with use elements, as ChrisL mentions) so that they fit the unicode def'n (which mostly relies upon Common Western Notation, and specifically avoids time signature, pitch, etc, leaving gaps to be filled). Then put any other left over feta glyphs in the E000..F8FF block. This would be more viable long-term. But still messy? Looking at a sampling of existing music notation fonts (most commercial or quasi-free), some take the approach feta did of corrupting the Latin block, and some use the Private Use block. I didn't see any that used the unicode Music Symbols block, unfortunately. So I'm afraid any stylesheet you make will have to be quite font-specific. Which makes me think (after reading the introduction to theunicode music section, that this encoding is mainly meant for adding music symbols to typed text) that the music of theunicode standard isn't made for music, because if it was the makers would have looked more closely at the existing fonts and this mess wouldn't exist. See: http://www.music-notation.info/en/compmus/musicfonts.html and http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/music.html for examples of available music fonts. Thanks again, I will take a look at the fonts and see what they do, and hopefully a solution will present itself. Aaron Thanks, --kirby - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: altglyph?? What is altglyph? It is a method to refer to a glyph by id, rather than unicode. See the example I posted earlier. It's quite a bit more cumbersome than unicode entities. s I don't know enough about private codepage definition to make a s recommendation on how to proceed when the approved codepages don't s suit your purpose. Yes, PUA is another possibility. PUA? what is PUA? Private Use Area codepoints. For example, E000..F8FF are available for private use, and have no standard definition. That would certainly be better than overloading the Latin blocks, as Feta does. all this disscussion aside I need a high quality music font with unicode encodings. which is my best bet. I think you'll need to do a fair amount of work with fontforge or an XML editor to create the font you're looking for. I think the easiest approach would be to use the private block at E000..F8FF and remap the feta glyph-names to codes in that range. I don't know how lilyxml references fonts currently (by glyph-name in CWN?), but your stylesheet would just need to contain the mapping between its current references and your newly defined unicodes. Harder would be to modify glyphs (perhaps including grouping and transforming existing paths with use elements, as ChrisL mentions) so that they fit the unicode def'n (which mostly relies upon Common Western Notation, and specifically avoids time signature, pitch, etc, leaving gaps to be filled). Then put any other left over feta glyphs in the E000..F8FF block. This would be more viable long-term. Looking at a sampling of existing music notation fonts (most commercial or quasi-free), some take the approach feta did of corrupting the Latin block, and some use the Private Use block. I didn't see any that used the unicode Music Symbols block, unfortunately. So I'm afraid any stylesheet you make will have to be quite font-specific. See: http://www.music-notation.info/en/compmus/musicfonts.html and http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/music.html for examples of available music fonts. Thanks, --kirby Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
On Wednesday, December 8, 2004, 3:45:31 PM, skatethere wrote: s --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I see how they reach all the musical symbols now in unicode. The combine pieces together or they use symbols from elsewhere in s the unicode set. Which means I have now no idea how I will get unicode =feta so can I do this? 1D19C STROKE-2 + 1d1a0 STROKE-6 +1D19D STROKE-3MORDENT s If you mean, can you make an SVG glyph that combines several other s glyphs, I don't know how to do so without combining the paths s manually. I don't know how to make a compound glyph. Perhaps ChrisL s can make a recommendation. Note that, unlike say TrueType, there is no requirement that glyph paths in SVG are a single non-intersecting shape. Even in SVG Tiny, you can have a self-intersecting and disjoint shape. In SVG Full you can put anything as a child of a glyph that you could put as a child of a g. So, in your example above, if you already had paths with ids on for the three glyphs, you could make a compound glyph with three use elements plus any transforms needed to position and size them relative to one another. if this is the way I am still stuck with the symbols that are not unique to music but not standard for regular fonts. s Yup. I don't see an easy way to reconcile Feta with the Unicode s charset. (Unicode is a character coding scheme, not a charset, but the difference does not matter much in this discussion). s It sure would be nice if the Lilypond creators had considered s that when designing the fonts. It would. However, you can use altglyph to get at glyphs for characters which have no standardized Unicode character or need a special glyph. s I don't know enough about private codepage definition to make a s recommendation on how to proceed when the approved codepages don't s suit your purpose. Yes, PUA is another possibility. -- Chris Lilleymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Chair, W3C SVG Working Group Member, W3C Technical Architecture Group Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
Note that, unlike say TrueType, there is no requirement that glyph paths in SVG are a single non-intersecting shape. Even in SVG Tiny, you can have a self-intersecting and disjoint shape. In SVG Full you can put anything as a child of a glyph that you could put as a child of a g. So, in your example above, if you already had paths with ids on for the three glyphs, you could make a compound glyph with three use elements plus any transforms needed to position and size them relative to one another. if this is the way I am still stuck with the symbols that are not unique to music but not standard for regular fonts. s Yup. I don't see an easy way to reconcile Feta with the Unicode s charset. (Unicode is a character coding scheme, not a charset, but the difference does not matter much in this discussion). s It sure would be nice if the Lilypond creators had considered s that when designing the fonts. It would. However, you can use altglyph to get at glyphs for characters which have no standardized Unicode character or need a special glyph. altglyph?? What is altglyph? s I don't know enough about private codepage definition to make a s recommendation on how to proceed when the approved codepages don't s suit your purpose. Yes, PUA is another possibility. PUA? what is PUA? all this disscussion aside I need a high quality music font with unicode encodings. which is my best bet. 1. make one from scratch 2. find a font that is unicoded encoded and has music and somehow substute the feta glyphs that are possible to replace and leave the others. Is there such a font. 3. encode as much of feta as is possible and then create the other glyphs 4. other? currently lilyxml is creating convertors to have lilypond(tex) process the music. A project goal is to produce output using xml tools, I gather the limiting factor here is a svg font with the proper unicode encodings. Can someone lay out in plain english what we need to do to acheive this? Thanks Aaron lilyxml Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
Well I see how they reach all the musical symbols now in unicode. The combine pieces together or they use symbols from elsewhere in the unicode set. Which means I have now no idea how I will get unicode =feta so can I do this? 1D19C STROKE-2 + 1d1a0 STROKE-6 +1D19D STROKE-3MORDENT if this is the way I am still stuck with the symbols that are not unique to music but not standard for regular fonts. Aaron Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I see how they reach all the musical symbols now in unicode. The combine pieces together or they use symbols from elsewhere in the unicode set. Which means I have now no idea how I will get unicode =feta so can I do this? 1D19C STROKE-2 + 1d1a0 STROKE-6 +1D19D STROKE-3MORDENT If you mean, can you make an SVG glyph that combines several other glyphs, I don't know how to do so without combining the paths manually. I don't know how to make a compound glyph. Perhaps ChrisL can make a recommendation. if this is the way I am still stuck with the symbols that are not unique to music but not standard for regular fonts. Yup. I don't see an easy way to reconcile Feta with the Unicode charset. It sure would be nice if the Lilypond creators had considered that when designing the fonts. I don't know enough about private codepage definition to make a recommendation on how to proceed when the approved codepages don't suit your purpose. --kirby Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
Hmn I doubt there was a unicode music font when they started and they were creating a special purpose type one font. I don't have to use feta I guess. Anyone know of a unicode font that has all the symbols? I could I guess make my own font if I have to. but I am not sure how to use the unicode encoding, it seems that in unicode I must combine glyphs to acheive many normal glyphs for music. this seems to add a lot of complication to the issue of displaying music. I am now most confused. Thanks Aaron Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
Aaron wrote: Hmn I doubt there was a unicode music font when they started and they were creating a special purpose type one font. I don't have to use feta I guess. I would use Feta and provide a mapping from characters to glyphs that you feel is useful. An SVG font can have ligatures (multiple characters that map to a single glyph). Since I can't find any good description of the design of the feta font I can't really tell if this will be useful to you. I suspect that the text generated will be a bit complex. Something like a2a where a produces the note head and 2a produces the 1/2 note a stem or something. You can't have a2 (or 2a produce a 2a ligature glyph and an a glyph). You could have a 2a ligature that includes the head and the stem. Anyone know of a unicode font that has all the symbols? I could I guess make my own font if I have to. but I am not sure how to use the unicode encoding, it seems that in unicode I must combine glyphs to acheive many normal glyphs for music. this seems to add a lot of complication to the issue of displaying music. I am now most confused. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
My goodness, your message was a strange coincidence. My final school project is to do just that, except I don't use lilypond. It's not exactly great and I'm hoping to do far more improvements on it in the future (and I work on it alone) http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/~00171492 Not the best system in the world. I'm aware of most shortcomings. I'm a bit reluctant to show it to the 5000 people on this list seeing as it's using #very# simple svg but I'm submitting next week so what the heck ;) What I did was download a free music font (MusiTone, google for it) and map the font using ttf2svg (a Batik tool). path info is stored in a database and retrieved dynamically, to roughly summarize. I'll have a look at lilypond in more details for future implementations. I quickly looked at it and it seems to produce pretty neatly formatted music. Cheers -Jean-Loup --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], aamehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am new to the list but, really need some help. I am working on developing a user enterable form of xml http://lilyxml.sourceforge.net/ we are developing in two directions as far as presentation is concerned. 1. we are creating convertors to have lilypond parse and print the output. (www.lilypond.org) 2. we are trying to create output using xsl/xsl-fo/xslt/svg to display and print the music. There exists a number of music fonts that are used to display/print music notation. question: 1. would it be better to turn each glyph of a font into a graphic, or use it as a font. In a regular font the letter a=a but in lilyxml a2=a half note displayed possibly on a treble staff with the stem either up or down. lilyxml uses ascii names and numbers for musical notes and durations. then two style sheets will be available to process the notation, one is a user tweakable style sheet (yet to be defined) and the other an advanced xsl style sheet. How do we implement actual music display(svg) and printing (svg/pdf etc) from the lilyxml/style sheets to svg? Also if anyone has an interest (in the display issue or in music)please join the mailing list for lilyxml we are in the early stages of development, and realize that presentation via standard based means (xsl svg etc) is much preferable. Thanks Aaron Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
The problem with this is that you rely on a font that implements this range of unicode characters. So far I haven't been able to find any (not free anyway). If you know any, please share :) Cheers -Jean-Loup You should convert those to the equivalent Unicode characters during the transformation processs. [1] http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf Regards- Doug doug . schepers @ vectoreal.com www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
You mean the mailing list? Sure, but I must warn you I'm going to be busy in the next month or two (as I've been thos last 3 or 4 months working on this). I'd be happy to share my experience and mutually improve our applications :) -Jean-Loup Hi Jean-Loup, how about joining lilyxml. We need someone to work on the display aspect we are already making headway on the language structure. Aaron On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 20:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My goodness, your message was a strange coincidence. My final school project is to do just that, except I don't use lilypond. It's not exactly great and I'm hoping to do far more improvements on it in the future (and I work on it alone) http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/~00171492 Not the best system in the world. I'm aware of most shortcomings. I'm a bit reluctant to show it to the 5000 people on this list seeing as it's using #very# simple svg but I'm submitting next week so what the heck ;) What I did was download a free music font (MusiTone, google for it) and map the font using ttf2svg (a Batik tool). path info is stored in a database and retrieved dynamically, to roughly summarize. I'll have a look at lilypond in more details for future implementations. I quickly looked at it and it seems to produce pretty neatly formatted music. Cheers -Jean-Loup --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], aamehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am new to the list but, really need some help. I am working on developing a user enterable form of xml http://lilyxml.sourceforge.net/ we are developing in two directions as far as presentation is concerned. 1. we are creating convertors to have lilypond parse and print the output. (www.lilypond.org) 2. we are trying to create output using xsl/xsl-fo/xslt/svg to display and print the music. There exists a number of music fonts that are used to display/print music notation. question: 1. would it be better to turn each glyph of a font into a graphic, or use it as a font. In a regular font the letter a=a but in lilyxml a2=a half note displayed possibly on a treble staff with the stem either up or down. lilyxml uses ascii names and numbers for musical notes and durations. then two style sheets will be available to process the notation, one is a user tweakable style sheet (yet to be defined) and the other an advanced xsl style sheet. How do we implement actual music display(svg) and printing (svg/pdf etc) from the lilyxml/style sheets to svg? Also if anyone has an interest (in the display issue or in music)please join the mailing list for lilyxml we are in the early stages of development, and realize that presentation via standard based means (xsl svg etc) is much preferable. Thanks Aaron - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 20:55, Robin Berjon wrote: Aaron wrote: Well I thought to convert/code the feta font since it is one of the best music fonts out there. Is it a ttf font? no type1 aa If so you can use the ttf2svg tool that comes with Batik. See http://xml.apache.org/batik/ttf2svg.html for details. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 20:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You mean the mailing list?
yes the mailing list and if you can do more cvs access.
Aaron
Sure, but I must warn you I'm going to be busy in the next month or
two (as I've been thos last 3 or 4 months working on this). I'd be
happy to share my experience and mutually improve our applications :)
-Jean-Loup
Hi Jean-Loup,
how about joining lilyxml. We need someone to work on the display
aspect
we are already making headway on the language structure.
Aaron
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 20:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My goodness, your message was a strange coincidence.
My final school project is to do just that, except I don't use
lilypond. It's not exactly great and I'm hoping to do far more
improvements on it in the future (and I work on it alone)
http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/~00171492
Not the best system in the world. I'm aware of most shortcomings.
I'm
a bit reluctant to show it to the 5000 people on this list seeing
as
it's using #very# simple svg but I'm submitting next week so what
the
heck ;)
What I did was download a free music font (MusiTone, google for
it)
and map the font using ttf2svg (a Batik tool). path info is
stored in
a database and retrieved dynamically, to roughly summarize.
I'll have a look at lilypond in more details for future
implementations. I quickly looked at it and it seems to produce
pretty neatly formatted music.
Cheers
-Jean-Loup
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], aamehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi all,
I am new to the list but, really need some help.
I am working on developing a user enterable form of xml
http://lilyxml.sourceforge.net/
we are developing in two directions as far as presentation is
concerned.
1. we are creating convertors to have lilypond parse and print
the
output. (www.lilypond.org)
2. we are trying to create output using xsl/xsl-fo/xslt/svg to
display
and print the music.
There exists a number of music fonts that are used to
display/print
music notation.
question:
1. would it be better to turn each glyph of a font into a
graphic,
or
use it as a font.
In a regular font the letter a=a but in lilyxml a2=a half note
displayed possibly on a treble staff with the stem either up or
down.
lilyxml uses ascii names and numbers for musical notes and
durations.
then two style sheets will be available to process the notation,
one is a user tweakable style sheet (yet to be defined) and the
other
an advanced xsl style sheet.
How do we implement actual music display(svg) and printing
(svg/pdf
etc)
from the lilyxml/style sheets to svg?
Also if anyone has an interest (in the display issue or in
music)please join the mailing list for lilyxml we are in the
early
stages of development, and realize that presentation via
standard
based means (xsl svg etc) is much preferable.
Thanks
Aaron
-
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-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and
click edit my membership
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To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
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membership
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Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--
$4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-
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Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
Great I already have fontforge installed and did a converison although I didn't know how to add the unicode stuff or whether to start from a type1 or first convert to ttf. Thanks this is starting to get interesting. Aaron On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 23:54, skatethere wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its quite ok, since this has never been done before I gather the reason is because it is not a simple feat. Which is why I didn't rush to learn svg. I realize that this is not elementry stuff but would require people with advance knowledge. So again my question is what to I need to proceed? A font? Well, I thought I'd see how well fontforge could convert the Type1 font in question, so I gave it a try. The result has been uploaded to the files section of this group at: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UMi0QQzlGAoCGTyVP7Raxm0D0I8aicOIObVIgvWCm2wytIAB3xiq1mS7M4KtN20bp8vxTry8h04uYmneOWNQqPT4j-VQtZqY/feta-font-example.svg It's a partial conversion of feta20, which seemed to contain some ofthe more interesting glyphs (rests, note heads, etc.). feta actually consists of a number of fonts, so knock yourself out converting them all. The uploaded file is named feta-font-example.svg. I replaced the fontforge glyph-name attributes with id attributes, so that they can be referenced in altGlyph elements. Feel free to add unicode mappings as you determine them necessary. Fontforge can be found at: http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/ I gather I must add a unicode mapping for each font. could you send me one example so that I can proceed on my own with this? I am using fontforge so for instance, I load the feta 20 font that I converted to svg, now how do I add the unicode mapping? Is there a way by command line to do this? how do I do this for each charactor in the font? What dialog box must I open? Thanks Aaron what else? Well, you'll need to develop XSLT stylesheets that know the correct glyph selection, geometry, placement, etc. and encode all of the score in the appropriate text and tspan elements. That'll be the really interesting part. --kirby - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Great I already have fontforge installed and did a converison
although I
didn't know how to add the unicode stuff or whether to start from a
type1 or first convert to ttf.
Well, I recommend not converting to ttf, as the extra conversion step
will involve a loss of precision in the curves (ttf and ps use
different equations: quadratic versus cubic). I was surprised to see
that fontforge could convert to SVG, and happy that it worked well.
The uploaded file is named feta-font-example.svg. I replaced the
fontforge glyph-name attributes with id attributes, so that they
can
be referenced in altGlyph elements. Feel free to add unicode
mappings
as you determine them necessary. Fontforge can be found at:
http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
I gather I must add a unicode mapping for each font.
could you send me one example so that I can proceed on my own with
this?
I am using fontforge so for instance, I load the feta 20 font that I
converted to svg, now how do I add the unicode mapping?
Well, after looking at the unicode pages, I would say it will be
difficult, especially since Lilypond and unicode have taken different
approaches to handling notes (lilypond treates the head of the note as
separate from the flag, etc.)
But if you do so, you'll have to manually create a list of unicode
values and corresponding glyph-name from the SVG font. A list of the
glyph-names can be obtained from the SVG font (in a non-XML-aware
fashion) by:
perl -ne 'chomp;($name=$_)=~s/^.*glyph-name=\([^]+)\.*$/$1/g;print
$name, \n if /glyph-name/;' font.svg
Is there a way by command line to do this?
how do I do this for each charactor in the font?
Once you create a file of unicode values- glyph-name mappings, in the
following format:
#x1d11e; trebleclef
#x1d13b; wholerest
Then you could add those unicode references to the SVG font with
a perl script like the following:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
my (%glyph_map, $uni, $name);
open (FD, mappings.txt) || die Could not open mappings file\n;
while (FD) {
chomp;
($uni, $name) = split;
next if ($uni=~/^$/ || $name=~/^$/);
$glyph_map{$name} = $uni;
}
while () {
if (/glyph-name/) {
chomp(my $glyph=$_);
$glyph=~s/^.*glyph-name=\([^]+)\.*$/$1/;
my $uni = $glyph_map{$glyph};
s/(glyph-name=\)([^]+)(\)/id=\$glyph\ $1$2$3/;
if (defined($uni) $uni!~/^$/) {
s/(glyph-name=\)([^]+)(\)/unicode=\$uni\ $1$2$3/;
}
}
print;
}
--kirby
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Re: [svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
skatethere wrote: But if you do so, you'll have to manually create a list of unicode values and corresponding glyph-name from the SVG font. A list of the glyph-names can be obtained from the SVG font (in a non-XML-aware fashion) by: perl -ne 'chomp;($name=$_)=~s/^.*glyph-name=\([^]+)\.*$/$1/g;print $name, \n if /glyph-name/;' font.svg [getting OT] As much as us Web geeks here know that Perl is the one and only way of getting any and everything done, that's just wrong :) Ask CPAN to install XML::XPath for you, and start from: xpath font.svg //@glyph-name It won't fail on every single one of my SVG documents, all of which use single quotes for attributes. Bullet-proofing it further is also cheap. -- Robin Don't do XML with regexen since 1998 Berjon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: music and fonts and graphics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: skatethere wrote: But if you do so, you'll have to manually create a list of unicode values and corresponding glyph-name from the SVG font. A list of the glyph-names can be obtained from the SVG font (in a non-XML-aware fashion) by: perl -ne 'chomp;($name=$_)=~s/^.*glyph-name=\([^]+)\.*$/ $1/g;print $name, \n if /glyph-name/;' font.svg [getting OT] As much as us Web geeks here know that Perl is the one and only way of getting any and everything done, that's just wrong :) Ask CPAN to install XML::XPath for you, and start from: xpath font.svg //@glyph-name Amen, I hear you, and personally prefer XML-aware tools in my general work. However, I find that for perl novices, installing Bundle::CPAN, running cpan-shell, setting up CPAN mirrors, finding and installing bundles, etc. is frequently too much to ask. As a result, when posting simple scripts online, I tend to use scripts with few or no dependencies. Also, while using XML::XPath is an easy way to do searches, document changes involve a bit more understanding of DTDs, callback parsing, etc. --kirby Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
