Re: [sword-devel] Forum spam

[Greg Hellings]

There are services that can be purchased that do this especially
targeting forum/blog posts and comments and the like.  I don't know if
there are free ones or if those places offer free services on top of
their for-profit ones.  But if a person really is doing the work by
hand, then there is not really any way to automatically catch them,
sadly. :(

--Greg

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Trevor Jenkins
 wrote:
> Is there something like SpamAssassin's bayesian filter feature that could be 
> utilised in the forum to idenify spam posts? If not SA then maybe one of the 
> equivalent tools could be substituted.
>
> Regards, Trevor.
>
> <>< Re: deemed!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 26 Sep 2011, at 18:56, Manfred Bergmann  wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> There is a lot of spam in the forum as well.
>> I have to constantly remove spam posts and delete user accounts, almost 
>> every day.
>> It got a little better at first when users were forced to register with 
>> unequal fore- and surname.
>> I'm not exactly sure how to prevent users from registering as it seems they 
>> are real humans.
>> The email addresses could be validated as below but mostly they seem valid 
>> and I'm not sure this would help very much.
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Manfred
>>
>>
>> Am 26.09.2011 um 16:45 schrieb DM Smith:
>>
>>> Lately we've had a bunch of bogus accounts created. In response, I have 
>>> added the following:
>>> 1) Every account requires email verification before the user is allowed to 
>>> edit a page.
>>> 2) The supplied email address checked:
>>> a) it is compared to known abusive patterns
>>> b) checked that it is valid email according to RFC 3696
>>> c) the domain is checked that it has a DNS entry.
>>>
>>> Also, I have deleted accounts that I have deemed as bogus. And I have 
>>> blocked accounts whose names I don't think is appropriate. At times I block 
>>> and then delete, giving me a record of why the account was deleted.
>>>
>>> I'm also deleting any accounts older than a month that are not do not have 
>>> a validated email. I don't know if the hotmail.com, live.com, msn.com, ... 
>>> problem has been resolved, so I am leaving those for now.
>>>
>>> I'm planning to delete never used accounts that are at least a few months 
>>> old. I'll probably do this several times a year.
>>>
>>> Please let me know if this poses/causes any problems.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> In Him,
>>>   DM
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Detecting Problem Characters

[Greg Hellings]

Mac newlines are \r, so that is probably what mixed you up.

--Greg

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Troy A. Griffitts  wrote:
> Yeah, I tried sed first, but this was originally for the mac and I couldn't
> get it to work with new lines on the mac.
>
> On 09/23/2011 07:59 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>>
>> "Troy A. Griffitts"  writes:
>>>
>>>  This script removes all \r's from your file
>>
>> You sure do like to work awfully hard.
>>
>> sed -i -e 's/\r$//' foo.txt
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Detecting Problem Characters

[Greg Hellings]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Troy A. Griffitts
 wrote:
> Michael,
>
> It sounds like you have eol types intermixed within your file.  This script
> removes all \r's from your file to normalize linefeeds to newlines.  It
> might help. Make a backup of your file first! :)
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/utils/osx/te2bb.app/Contents/Resources/te2bb.sh

Another option is the unix2dos and dos2unix commands as well, if you
want to have bi-directionality between Linux and Windows hosts.


--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Detecting Problem Characters

[Greg Hellings]

Michael,

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michael Hart  wrote:
> I've got a couple modules-in-making both of which I'm working on quote marks
> that aren't displaying at all or are displaying block "mystery" characters.
>  I'm spending time trying to separate apostrophes from single quotes on both
> modules with the hope I can preserve or achieve the ability to use OSIS 
> tags
>
> HOWEVER
>
> In both modules, at some point I've lost control of a few characters and now
> ms excel or openoffice calc, or jEdit now can't see all the end of line
> characters. That is, when I try to open the file VPL, it almost but not
> quite works.  Some verses are grouped together in either spreadsheet while
> jedit sees them as properly separated.
>
> Recently or not so recently I saw a comment in some post describing a way
>  or a program with summarizes all 'non-ascii' or 'out of this encoding'
> characters that appear in a file.  I've spent time searching for this post
> but cannot locate it or any information about this step on the module
> creation wiki.
>
> Can someone enlighten me (again) as to the best method to find offending
> characters and deal with them?

I wrote the following script which will work great if your text is in
plain text format. Its output will be skewed if you are in something
like OSIS or imp format, but it will still run.
http://dl.thehellings.com/count.py
It makes the further assumption that you are encoded in UTF-8 format.
You can change that readily enough. The program will terminate
incorrectly if there are non-UTF8 characters in the input file,
otherwise it will print out a list of all the characters it
encountered, their frequency, and their Unicode name.

>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mike
> ___
>
> PS.  Modules in progress are based on these documents:
>
> 1. Holy New Covenant (public domain on publication in 2004.)
> http://www.thomhackett.com/the-holy-new-covenant.htm
>
> The "palm doc" file actually opens as a ms word 97 or 2003 file.)  It is my
> intention to get this into sword to evaluate it as to it's readability and
> usability.  From my cursory review is is a fairly faithful treatment of
> scripture. Galilee Translation Team mentioned appears to be affiliated with
> The Church of Christ in some way.
>
> 2. The Riverside New Testament (published 1923 and copyright renewed (1948?)
> according to Google, but even if still copyrighted should be distributable
> within the next decade... If I have my facts straight).
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/zefania-sharp/files/Zefania%20XML%20Modules%20%28old%29/Bibles%20ENG/The%20Riverside%20New%20Testament%20%281923%29/sf_Riverside_NT2.zip/download
>
> Came to me as a 'zefania' xml file.  Note that this file is now (after I
> started working on this last year) already available in OSIS format at:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/zefania-sharp/files/Osis%20XML%20Modules%20%28raw%29/
>
> so this is really more of an exercise in 'what am I doing wrong' for me.

For reasons not entirely mine to go into, nor germane to your
questions, CrossWire policy is generally to ignore zefania files.
Among such, as you point out, is that many of their files have been
found to violate copyright laws.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Problem compiling sword-1.5.9 on Fedora Core 5

[Greg Hellings]

Just an FYI - you've resurrected a 5 year old thread for a 5 year old
distribution of Linux.

What exactly are you doing and what is going on?

--Greg

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:40 PM, KenPaxton  wrote:
> I tried passing the options -Wno-error=unused-but-set-variable but no joy, as
> I get the same result as above.
>
> The config.log spits this out.
> configure:8013: result: gcc -E
> configure:8033: gcc -E conftest.c
> configure:8033: $? = 0
> configure:8047: gcc -E conftest.c
> conftest.c:11:28: fatal error: ac_nonexistent.h: No such file or directory
> compilation terminated.
> configure:8047: $? = 1
> configure: failed program was:
> | /* confdefs.h */
>
> Right now, I am reduced to running a build of Online Bible that will run on
> wine.
>
> Any ideas? It would be nice to get this working on Fedora 15.
>
> -
>
> [url=http://www.thertastore.com/Kitchen_Cabinets_s/1423.htm]Kitchen 
> cabinets[/url]
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Problem-compiling-sword-1-5-9-on-Fedora-Core-5-tp352095p3832385.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[sword-devel] CLucene Compatibility

[Greg Hellings]

While working on updating SWORD (and BibleTime) to handle CLucene
2.3.3.4 I have come across statements that clucene-core-0.9.21b is
compatible with Lucene 1.9.1 and clucene-core-2.3.3.4 is compatible
with Lucene 2.3.  I asked Troy in IRC if this would mean invalidating
any existing indexes.  He believes that backwards compatibility is
maintained by the 2.3 files but he wasn't sure.  Does anyone know what
the upgrade will entail for our users with existing indexes?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Fwd: win ce 6

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Chris Little  wrote:
> Shouldn't it work under VC++ Express? I believe MS got rid of their old
> `embedded' IDEs a while back and integrated that functionality into standard
> VC++, which is of course now available in the free `express' flavor.

There is still a separate phone version of Visual Studio, but there is
an Express version offered.  It is possible to create apps which rely
on the for-pay version only, but most thing can be compiled with
either one.

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/product-comparison#expressCompareTable

--Greg

>
> --Chris
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Fwd: win ce 6

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Barry Drake  wrote:
> On 08/09/11 14:06, Konstantin Maslyuk wrote:
>>
>> I  have  sent  you  privately  version of SwordReader compiled against
>> Sword  1.6.2 with the fix and wm2003 support. Version from site really
>> didn't work for me.
>
> Thanks for that.  Have you ported the code to a free compiler suite?  I
> still have a copy of Win XP on a spare drive that I can use in a trayless
> caddy.  If I can build SwordReader, I'm willing to do a minimal amount of
> maintenance to keep the project alive.  As I say, It's a good little app and
> it would be sad to see it die for lack of a little bit of attention.
>
> I got the binaries you sent and will archive them with my SwordReader stuff.
>  AFAIK, I still have write access to the SourceForge SwordReader site, so I
> could upload any new stuff there.

If I can figure out how to configure it, I can give you access to the
sword reader site directly if you would rather.

--Greg

>
> God bless,        Barry.
>
> --
> From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East
> Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church.  See
> http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and
> http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages.
>
> Replies - b.dr...@ntlworld.com
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Fwd: win ce 6

[Greg Hellings]

I just want to throw this out there:

SwordReader is not at all supported at present.  Currently I am
maintaining the the website only for historical reasons.  If you or
anyone else involved here would like to take over the project, I'd be
happy to hand over the website.  And probably many WinMo users would
be happy to have it maintained again.

--Greg

2011/9/7 Костя и Алёна Маслюк :
> Imho SwordReader hasn't support for path with non ascii symbols, i had
> patched SwordReader Dll to work around this but the application wasn't ever
> built with this library. So if path contain non ascii symbols SwordReader
> can not find modules...
>
> Also according to the current sources, path for global configuration file is
> "/Program Files/sword/sword.conf" for wince platform.
>
> Barry Drake  писал(а) в своём письме Wed, 07 Sep 2011
> 10:01:44 +0400:
>
>> Win cs has no built in function for finding out where SwordReader is
>> sitting (yes really!).  If you want to do something in the Sword
>> directory, you have to know where it is.  I got around this by doing a
>> recursive search for mods.d.  Later, David Trotz hard-coded the absolute
>> Sword path into SwordReader and this is the current state of play.
>
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] imp2vs segfault

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Chris Little  wrote:
> The utils tend to choke when you throw data at them in a radically wrong
> versification system. Specifically, they'll choke if you give them texts
> with extra chapters. Joel only has 3 chapters in the KJV versification,
> which you're using, so you get a segfault when you feed imp2vs a Bible with
> four chapters in Joel.

Well that explains that phenomenon.

>
> There is a bug somewhere, but fixing the bug still isn't going to make this
> the correct versification.

An error message would at least be nice. "Hey, not sure what to do
with this verse."

>
> One of the Catholic versifications is probably the closest we have. I'm not
> sure about the "endlessly repeating messages of linking different verses
> together." Are they literally endless and repeating the same linkage? That's
> not a bug that I know of in any of the tools. (If it's the same verse
> repeating, which verse is it? And have you checked that there isn't some
> sort of error in the verse numbering in/around that verse?)

I would just like to reiterate - the files are freely available for
anyone to take a look at and test out.  This way anyone can see what
is going on and hopefully help come to an informed decision about what
is going on.

http://dl.thehellings.com/SL_FR_BI_PDV.thml.lorem
http://dl.thehellings.com/SL_PG_BI_TPC.thml.lorem

These are the two files in question.  I have now uploaded a copy of
the output of this command
$ imp2vs SL_FR_BI_PDV.thml.lorem -4 -o SL_FR_BI_PDV -v Catholic 2>&1 >
SL_FR_BI_PDV.thml.lorem.err
to the above location as well for you to check out.  It is a 95MB file
that resulted from allowing the above command to run for about 20 or
30 seconds before doing a keyboard break.  I'm looking at about 2.25
million lines of output there which start out perfectly normal
from file: Ge 1:1
adding entry: Genesis 1:1 length 240/240
from file: Ge 1:2
adding entry: Genesis 1:2 length 149/149
from file: Ge 1:3
adding entry: Genesis 1:3 length 136/136
...

And then turn into
adding entry: Amos 9:15 length 2159/2159
from file: Ob 1
adding entry: Obadiah 1:1 length 823/823
linking entry: Obadiah 1:2 to Obadiah 1:1
linking entry: Obadiah 1:3 to Obadiah 1:1
linking entry: Obadiah 1:4 to Obadiah 1:1

linking entry: Obadiah 1:21 to Obadiah 1:1
from file: Ob 2
adding entry: Obadiah 2:1 length 492/492
linking entry: [ Module Heading ] to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: [ Testament 1 Heading ] to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Genesis 0:0 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:0 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:1 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:2 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:3 to Obadiah 2:1

linking entry: Jonah 1:14 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Jonah 1:15 to Obadiah 2:1
linking entry: Jonah 1:16 to Obadiah 2:1
from file: Ob 3
adding entry: Obadiah 3:1 length 465/465
linking entry: [ Module Heading ] to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: [ Testament 1 Heading ] to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Genesis 0:0 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:0 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:1 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:2 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:3 to Obadiah 3:1

linking entry: Jonah 2:8 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Jonah 2:9 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Jonah 2:10 to Obadiah 3:1
linking entry: Jonah 2:11 to Obadiah 3:1
from file: Ob 4
adding entry: Obadiah 4:1 length 438/438
linking entry: [ Module Heading ] to Obadiah 4:1
linking entry: [ Testament 1 Heading ] to Obadiah 4:1
linking entry: Genesis 0:0 to Obadiah 4:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:0 to Obadiah 4:1
linking entry: Genesis 1:1 to Obadiah 4:1

And so on. I don't see what's so special about this point in the
module, but maybe someone else can?  Again, I encourage you all to
take a look at the files yourself and see if you all can see something
I'm missing.

--Greg


>
> There is also a French versification system that we know of but haven't
> implemented yet, which might be a better fit.
>
> --Chris
>
>
> On 9/6/2011 10:30 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>> Wouldn't know.  I don't go near Windows without hip waders (or the
>> promise of a paycheck, when it comes to my day job) on if I can help
>> it. Plus, I doubt that imp2vs.exe is as up to date as the version I'm
>> using in Linux.  You're more than welcome to give it a try.  I used
>> the command
>>
>> imp2vs  -4 -o .
>>
>> to do the import.  I also tried adding '-v Catholic' in, since these
>> are French and Portugese modules, but that results in endlessly
>> repeating messages of linking different verses together.
>>
>> --Greg
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:24 PM, David Haslam
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Does the same segmentation fault 

Re: [sword-devel] imp2vs segfault

[Greg Hellings]

Wouldn't know.  I don't go near Windows without hip waders (or the
promise of a paycheck, when it comes to my day job) on if I can help
it. Plus, I doubt that imp2vs.exe is as up to date as the version I'm
using in Linux.  You're more than welcome to give it a try.  I used
the command

imp2vs  -4 -o .

to do the import.  I also tried adding '-v Catholic' in, since these
are French and Portugese modules, but that results in endlessly
repeating messages of linking different verses together.

--Greg

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:24 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Does the same segmentation fault occur when using imp2vs.exe in Windows?
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
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[sword-devel] imp2vs segfault

[Greg Hellings]

I'm working with a pair of Bible files, both are in imp format with
ThML formatting embedded in the verses.  I have imported plenty of
files akin to these, with no noticeable difference between them all,
yet these two produce consistent segfaulting at the border between
Joel 4:1 and Joel 4:2.  Does anyone have an idea what is going on?

The files are here:
http://dl.thehellings.com/SL_FR_BI_PDV.thml.lorem
http://dl.thehellings.com/SL_PG_BI_TPC.thml.lorem

Warning - not for the faint of heart.  They weigh in at about 10 and
13MB apiece.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] CLucene 2

[Greg Hellings]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Matthew Talbert  wrote:
>> So I'm looking at the trouble with building CLucene 2 and the first
>> snag seems to hinge around the helper functions we use -
>> lucene_utf8towcs and lucene_wcstoutf8 and the like. These are still
>> present in CLucene 2, but they are not exposed through a public
>> header.  As I see it, we can either choose to add their signatures to
>> our own headers when CLucene 2 is detected and move on with it, or we
>> can appropriate their entire implementation of the functionality and
>> rename it as sword_utf8towcs and the like provided the licenses allow
>> us to do so.  Anyone have a firm opinion on the better path to take?
>>
>
> Wouldn't this be very close to the UTF8 to UTF16 conversion that I
> posted the other day? If so, we already have a filter that can do
> this.

It is actually UTF8 to Unicode from everything I've been able to read.
 utf8towcs is, from what I have read, supposed to represent every
Unicode character as a single wchar_t which is supposed to be wide
enough to hold the entire Unicode point value in a single space.  If
I'm mistaken and someone knows otherwise, I'd appreciate knowing.  So
yes, the functionality is akin to UTF8UTF16, but it is not the same.
I pursued the same path myself only to find SWORD lacks the internal
ability to convert to/from the proper wchar_t format.  The C++ stl
does have the ability, but like so much else in the stl it is pure
arcana to figure out what is going on and the proper syntax, plus it
would not be nearly as performant as operating on the C string objects
(it would require a path that involved: char * -> string ->
stringstream -> wstring -> whcar_t*).

I will follow DM's suggestion, but I wanted to check and see if anyone
here was already in touch with the CLucene crew and knew their minds
on this one.  I thought someone here has, in the past, been at least
marginally involved in CLucene work.  Another alternative is that
apparently ICU supports this functionality also. But then we would
require CLucene _and_ ICU functionality simultaneously in the library.
The CLucene functions appear to be relatively straightforward and
self-contained in their own source file, so that might be the best
route for us if CLucene really does intend to hide this functionality
from its headers.

--Greg

>
> Matthew
>
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[sword-devel] CLucene 2

[Greg Hellings]

So I'm looking at the trouble with building CLucene 2 and the first
snag seems to hinge around the helper functions we use -
lucene_utf8towcs and lucene_wcstoutf8 and the like. These are still
present in CLucene 2, but they are not exposed through a public
header.  As I see it, we can either choose to add their signatures to
our own headers when CLucene 2 is detected and move on with it, or we
can appropriate their entire implementation of the functionality and
rename it as sword_utf8towcs and the like provided the licenses allow
us to do so.  Anyone have a firm opinion on the better path to take?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] The SIL Pathway project

[Greg Hellings]

This afternoon I spoke with my project leader at Wycliffe and I asked
the team about this project. They were, of course, familiar with it,
since he is the manager for the general Wycliffe-on-Linux work and
FieldWorks is one of those tasks.

Apparently they were unaware that GoBible is a CrossWire project and
seemed genuinely surprised that they were already working with
CrossWire formats in their export.  They would, however, be happy to
receive help in the task of implementing a SWORD exporter. Both
FieldWorks - the application used in minority language research and
cultural investigation - and the Pathway plugin are open source and
leverage mainly C#.

When I looked, it appears the GoBible exporter mainly dumps into HTML
format?  If so, then writing a SWORD exporter should be relatively
straightforward if you wanted to run through imp+ThML formatting.  If
anyone has a knowledge of C#, please feel free to contact the admin of
the project who by now should have been made aware of the nearness of
SWORD as an export format. They were also interested if SWORD format
export would gain access to mobile platforms, which I assured him it
would, so if someone takes this up you might want to mention that
exporting to SWORD proper would allow the material to be used on the
richer mobile devices through PocketSword and AndBible in complement
to the GoBible on JavaME devices.

I will also be contacting the PM for Pathway tomorrow or Friday to
introduce myself and explain that SWORD format for his project would
work very well in concert with the work I'm already doing with
Wycliffe to bring large numbers of their works into SWORD.  I highly
encourage someone else to take up this mantle, as I have no experience
with C# and am already committed to another project using SWORD within
Wycliffe.  Even if you can't dedicate any time to the implementation
of the export filter, if they have a subject matter expert from the
SWORD side, the Wycliffe teams are very highly motivated and can gain
a major boost to their work velocity from regular interactions with
CrossWire people.

--Greg

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:06 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> The *SIL Pathway* project now has its own web page.
>
> http://pathway.sil.org/ http://pathway.sil.org/
>
> The table of output options includes Go Bible, but does not include SWORD.
>
> Although I'm glad about the inclusion of Go Bible, I'm sad that SWORD is not
> up there with all the rest.
>
> Those of you who have good personal contacts within SIL/Wycliffe - please
> see what you can do and say to rectify this omission.
>
> Some humble and gentle persuasion might be the order of the day.
>
> David
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/The-SIL-Pathway-project-tp3560313p3778663.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Normalization?

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 2:10 PM, DM Smith  wrote:
> On 08/30/2011 02:50 PM, David Haslam wrote:
>>
>> Is NFC normalization an absolute requirement for making modules, or merely
>> a
>> strong recommendation?
>
> Strong recommendation.
>>
>> Are combining characters permitted in source text for diacriticals where
>> there is no precomposed character in the Unicode Standard?
>
> Of course.

Be aware, however, that many fonts in many operating systems lack such
ability, and that many of our front ends use rendering widgets which
could easily barf on such functionality.  Xiphos and BibleTime ought
to be OK from a renderer's perspective, provided a good system font
can be found, but I would imagine BibleDesktop might suffer. BibleCS
probably has access to good fonts, but it uses very different
technologies, so check that one carefully. BPBible, especially older
versions, might have a tough time with advanced character sets.
MacSword is probably fine!

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] The SIL Pathway project

[Greg Hellings]

They also include an "export to Logos".  The group I work with at
Wycliffe does Logos -> SWORD conversions, so there will be a
(roundabout) path.

Moreover, if this is an open source project, could someone who is
interested not write a module for Pathway that performs the conversion
directly to SWORD? It looks like their software is inherently modular,
so I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.

--Greg

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:06 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> The *SIL Pathway* project now has its own web page.
>
> http://pathway.sil.org/ http://pathway.sil.org/
>
> The table of output options includes Go Bible, but does not include SWORD.
>
> Although I'm glad about the inclusion of Go Bible, I'm sad that SWORD is not
> up there with all the rest.
>
> Those of you who have good personal contacts within SIL/Wycliffe - please
> see what you can do and say to rectify this omission.
>
> Some humble and gentle persuasion might be the order of the day.
>
> David
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/The-SIL-Pathway-project-tp3560313p3778663.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[sword-devel] SWORD Engine - critical bugs and pending releases

[Greg Hellings]

I just wanted to put out another call to see if it is possible to push
for a SWORD 1.6.3 engine release.  My reasons are as follows:

1) Xiphos is in the birth pangs of version 3.1.5.
2) BibleTime is planning to go forward with a new beta early next week.
3) There is still the glaring bug of "Oops, you have a non-ASCII
character in your path, we can't handle that."
4) Troy, aren't you working towards a release of BibleCS?

Xiphos is planning to ship with a patched SWORD library that properly
handles upper ASCII/Unicode characters in path names.  That patch,
though, sits on top of the current head of SVN and not on 1.6.2. This
patch introduces a dependency on GLib2, which is fine for Xiphos
because it already ships with that, but it is unreasonable to expect
BibleTime, and even more BibleCS, to ship with that extra dependency.
BibleTime could make a mirrored patch which leverages Qt and BibleCS
could wrap another patch itself but doesn't that defeat the purpose of
having the library?  With at least two (and maybe all three) planning
a release in the near future, can we make fixing the UTF path problem
a priority and get 1.6.3 shipped in the next 2-3 weeks so that the
next releases of BT and Xiphos can ship with 1.6.3 in Windows as it is
released and not be forced to rely on individual patches built on top
of SVN code?

When I mentioned this in #bibletime last night, Jaak wanted to know if
SVN HEAD and 1.6.2 are binary compatible. I have no idea and told him
as much, but it's a question worth asking here of people who might
know better the answer.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Logos Personal Book Builder

[Greg Hellings]

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> I think the route of a MS Word/OOo -> module is so fraught with difficulties 
> that it is simply pointless to think one can automatise it.

For docx/odt -> Bible, there seems no reasonable way to automate it,
but going to generic book would be much simpler.

>
> What i can see and many people seem to cope just fine with is using some 
> simple markup used in fora software, wikis and blogs. People then can be told 
> - these are the 20 codes we support and please get going.
>
> This is largely semantic markup, but is also easily understood.

Part of the issue there is that we keep pushing people towards a
semantic markup. Which is great for language researchers and people
who understand the concept of markup. But it sucks for publishers and
most of the whole world who doesn't get it - they just want it to look
on screen the way it looks on paper. But CrossWire have made the
decision that Semantic Is King and the module's desire for
presentation be damned - publish your work in OSIS/TEI and no custom
stylesheets or you might foul up our design.  Logos is not hindered in
this task by such a choice, their format is extremely presentationally
focused, making their ability to provide Word/ODT -> module
translation a (slightly) simpler task than ours since they don't have
to answer the question "What semantics did the author intend by
italic, bold, 14pt Helvetica that contrasts it with bold, 14pt
Helvetica?"  Different approaches with the result being that they can
more easily provide this service than we can.  We could do the same,
but it would probably require dumping to a General Book and then
letting the user manipulate from there however they see fit.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Logos Personal Book Builder

[Greg Hellings]

I have pursued the avenue of docx -> Bible conversion in the past and,
allow me to state unequivocally, it is incredibly complex.  The sheer
number of ways to mark up the same item and material makes any sort of
attempt at such a conversion almost impossible to conceive.  I never
completed the project (my apologies to David for that), but I did get
so far as to have the base text working in SWORD. However, headings
were in the wrong places, foot notes were acknowledged but not
present, and many other things were very wrong with the results I
produced.  Not to mention that the parsing was highly dependent upon
that one text and the manner in which its editor had elected to markup
his works.  I have since come into possession of better tools which
would make some parts of the process easier, but by no means would it
be simple.

Producing a general book might have better results, but it would still
be a monumental undertaking for anyone who wanted to tackle it.  I am
up to my ears right now in other projects or I might consider it.
Also, I lack any sort of source texts which would make it worthwhile
for myself to undertake the project.

--Greg

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Benjamin Misja  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The new PBB feature sounds exciting and I will definitely see if I can
> integrate some papers and additional bible translations into my Logos library.
>
> I would think that having a comparable feature for making SWORD modules would
> give a huge boost to both the available amount of books and community
> participation. I think SWORD should make tools like this available to the
> community at any cost. It would take making modules out of the hands of those
> who know at least regular expressions and some programming language and put it
> into the hands of anybody who would want to make a module. I know I'd be
> making a lot of them if only I could! It would make SWORD so much cooler and
> more dynamic. ;-)
>
> Just my humble opinion,
>
> Ben
>
>
> Am Sonntag, 14. August 2011, 23:28:39 schrieb Jonathan Morgan:
>> I don't usually comment on competing products, but I thought the new
>> (long-expected) Logos Personal Book Builder was worth commenting on.  You
>> can find a post about it at
>> http://blog.logos.com/2011/08/personal-book-builder-the-inside-scoop/.  The
>> main difference from most software is the fact that books are built by
>> importing a docx file rather than entering any text into an editor, which
>> hopefully means minimal work to make it happen.  The created books can then
>> just be shared as you wish, even through the main Logos servers.
>>
>> I personally do not intend to do anything about this, but I thought it worth
>> mentioning to see what others thought of the idea.  Certainly difficulties
>> converting the text into a usable form seem to crop up quite a bit for
>> SWORD, and we have no knowledge of how many people just give up without
>> asking (I know there is a project to work with OpenOffice to create
>> Genbooks, but I have never used it and so do not know how capable and how
>> automatic it is).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Jon
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Problems to build SVN sword with clucene-core clucene-core-2.3.3.4-1

[Greg Hellings]

2011/8/2 Matěj Cepl :
> Dne 2.8.2011 14:54, Peter von Kaehne napsal(a):
>> reading the log it appears your clucene is too old?
>>
>> ../src/modules/swmodule.cpp:1321: Warnung: >>static
>> lucene::store::FSDirectory*
>> lucene::store::FSDirectory::getDirectory(const char*, bool,
>> lucene::store::LockFactory*)<< ist veraltet (deklariert bei
>> /home/zefanja/Downloads/clucene_armv7/usr/local/include/CLucene/store/FSDirectory.h:76)
>
> a) if it so, then ./configure should complain about it,
> b) this is Fedora/Rawhide, if you accuse us of having too old stuff
> (that would be clucene-core-2.3.3.4-1.fc16.x86_64) then I don't know for
> which OS sword is built for.

Peter was simply asking - I believe SWORD depends on a version newer
than 0.19 or 0.20 - but once they moved to their 2.x series, SWORD has
lost compatibilty.  The problem is not that your CLucene is too old,
it's that it's too new.  SWORD does not currently support building
against CLucene2. You'll have to find a package for the older versions
of clucene 0.2x to build SWORD or wait for the next release of SWORD
which ought to update itself to account for these changes.

--Greg

>
> Matěj
> --
> http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz
> GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
>
> This is a test of the emergency signature system. Were this an
> actual signature, you would see amusing mottos, disclaimers,
> a zillion net addresses, or edifying philosophical statements.
> this is only test.
>
>
>
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[sword-devel] v11n Verification Script

[Greg Hellings]

Using DM's suggestion I wrote a basic evaluation system to look at two
texts and compare versification contents.  You can fetch it from
http://dl.thehellings.com/v11n_check.py

It requires the Sword Python bindings as well as the numpy Python
library for calculation of means and standard deviations.

Usage: ./v11n_check.py   

Examples:
$ ./v11n_check.py WHNU KJV NT
$ ./v11n_check.py WLC KJV OT

The script will follow the versification of the original-language text
and will report any empty verses found in either text.  It will then
output any last-verse-in-chapter scriptures it came across that are
greater than 2 standard deviations away from the mean.  2 STD is
supposed to be sufficient to catch 95% of the correct values, if this
method has a chance of working with this straightforward of an
algorithm.

Give it a look and tell me what you think.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] V11n validation (was Re: Change to Synodal verse system)

[Greg Hellings]

Writing such a utility would be trivial.  Do we have any existing
modules which could be used to test it?

--Greg

2011/8/1 DM Smith :
> David's observation has got me thinking on whether there is a way to detect
> mismatches. The nature of osis2mod is to be lossless with regard to biblical
> material. If a verse in the OSIS file is not in the v11n, then it is
> appended it to the prior verse entry (it is a bit more complicated than
> that, but it gives the idea).
>
> I think a statistical analysis of a text could find such verses. Maybe a
> comparison of the word count per verse of a Greek text for the NT and a
> Hebrew text for the OT could serve as the expected. For a translation, it's
> word count would be compared to the reference. I would guess the ratio of
> words in the original compared to the translation would be fairly tight.
> Anything differing significantly from the ratio (perhaps 1.5x standard
> deviation of the ratio) would be flagged.
>
> Since the problem is potentially found only in the last verse of a chapter,
> there could be a flag to report only those. (Analysis would probably need to
> be done on the entire text to get a fair ratio and standard deviation.)
>
> I'm sure that there are problems with such an idea. And I'm not sure whether
> it would serve much value beyond checking those with a KJV v11n.
>
> In Him,
>    DM
>
> On 08/01/2011 08:39 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>>
>> This thread (plus something else) just prompted me to examine our
>> Ukrainian
>> module with diatheke.
>>
>> Psalms 114:8: що скелю обертає в озеро водне, а кремінь на водне джерело!
>> Не
>> нам, Господи, не нам, але Йменню Своєму дай славу за милість Твою, за
>> правду
>> Твою! Пощо мають казати народи: Де ж то їхній Бог? А Бог наш на небі, усе,
>> що хотів, учинив. Їхні божки срібло й золото, діло рук людських: вони
>> мають
>> уста й не говорять, очі мають вони і не бачать, мають уші й не чують,
>> мають
>> носа й без нюху, мають руки та не дотикаються, мають ноги й не ходять,
>> своїм
>> горлом вони не говорять! Нехай стануть такі, як вони, ті, хто їх виробляє,
>> усі, хто надію на них покладає! ізраїлю, надію складай лиш на Господа: Він
>> їм поміч та щит їм! Аароновий доме, надійтесь на Господа: Він їм поміч та
>> щит їм! Ті, що Господа боїтеся, надійтесь на Господа: Він їм поміч та щит
>> їм! Господь пам'ятає про нас, нехай поблагословить! Нехай поблагословить
>> ізраїлів дім, нехай поблагословить Він дім Ааронів! Нехай поблагословить
>> Він
>> тих, хто має до Господа страх, малих та великих! Нехай вас розмножить
>> Господь, вас і ваших дітей! Благословенні ви в Господа, що вчинив небо й
>> землю! Небо, небо для Господа, а землю віддав синам людським! Не мертві
>> хвалитимуть Господа, ані ті всі, хто сходить у місце мовчання, а ми
>> благословлятимемо Господа відтепер й аж навіки! Алілуя!
>>
>> This illustrates that the Ukrainian module should not have been squeezed
>> into standard KJV v11n.
>> Of course, when version 1.0 of this module was made, we'd not begun to
>> consider av11n.
>>
>> Are there any other SWORD modules that should be considered with a view to
>> rebuilding with Versification=Synodal ?
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Change-to-Synodal-verse-system-tp3709069p3709538.html
>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS New Testament Module Problem

[Greg Hellings]

David,

http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:confFiles has a list of all the
supported conf File entries.  Hopefully it's been kept up to date -
I'm not really sure on that point.  But it looks like you're looking
for the entry "Versification=NRSV" in the conf file.

--Greg

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:54 PM, David Troidl  wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> It produced a module, that seems to work in general.
>
> The major problem I notice, right off the bat, is: I specified NRSV v11n,
> and 3 John 15 and Rev 12:18 aren't there, using the 'release candidate' of
> BibleCS, or BibleTime 2.7.3.  And the module doesn't even show up in the
> Bible list on BPBible 0.5 beta.
>
> Is there a setting for that in the .conf file?  I just looked back at
> http://www.crosswire.org/sword/develop/swordmodule/, and didn't find
> anything.
>
> Peace,
>
> David
>
> On 7/23/2011 10:49 AM, DM Smith wrote:
>>
>> Use osis2mod instead.
>>
>> Cent from my fone so breef and theer mite be tipos. ;)
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2011, at 10:41 AM, David Troidl  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have an OSIS New Testament I'm trying to make a module from.  It
>>> validates under osisCore.2.1.1.xsd.  I'm running xml2gbs.exe from
>>> sword-utilities-1.6.2, on Windows 7, 64-bit.
>>>
>>> xmb2gbs Apt.xml Apt
>>> runs up to
>>> //Matt//1/1//2//3//4//5//6//7//8//9//10//11//12//13//14/
>>> repeats that line and stops
>>>
>>> A dialog appears:
>>> xml2gbs.exe has stopped working
>>> with the only option:
>>> Close program
>>>
>>> I'm attaching Matt 13-15, if anyone wants to see the markup.  Any help
>>> would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> David
>>> 
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Re: [sword-devel] Problems to build SVN sword with clucene-core clucene-core-2.3.3.4-1

[Greg Hellings]

I have done a cross-compile against 2.3.3.4 without a problem. It just
configured and built without even a hiccup (this was SVN head).

--Greg

2011/7/22 Matěj Cepl :
> Dne 22.7.2011 14:42, Troy A. Griffitts napsal(a):
>> which sounds like it might be a major revision update to what we
>> currently compile against.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Matěj
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] ICU error

[Greg Hellings]

Alex,

I have usually come across that error when I thought that ICU was
linked in but it wasn't (or when the data library from ICU was missing
at run time).  You might check to be sure that you actually are linked
against ICU and that something didn't go wonky during configure.

--Greg

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Alex  wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I've compiled Sword 1.6.2 w/ ICU. I get the following error when running
> diatheke or any of the examples:
> UTF8Transliterator: ICU: no resource index to load
> UTF8Transliterator: ICU: status U_MISSING_RESOURCE_ERROR
> After that, I get the program output.
> What is this error and how can I fix it?
>
> Regards,
> AXS
>
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Re: [sword-devel] SUMMARY TO DATE [load v11n from file]

[Greg Hellings]

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 6:04 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> I've been following the thread and I think that's a fair summary, Troy.
>
> Though we have not yet come across such a translation, it's also conceivable
> that in future we may receive a set of USFM files that make some use of the
> *\va* and *\ca* tags.

I have only ever encountered a single Bible that made use of such
technology - the Jerusalem Bible.  Such an ability would be germane to
development of that (not that we can, due to copyright). And it is
also possibly of interest to your other discussion as the JB is a
French-based translation.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] av11n repo timeline?

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:24 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> See recently added section:
>
> http://crosswire.org/wiki/Alternate_Versification#Front-end_support_for_av11n_.3F
>
> In theory, there are several aspects to consider when looking at front-end
> application support for alternate versification:
>
>   1. Can the module be installed at all, without causing the application to
> crash?

If installing any module causes the app to crash, that is a bug in the
app (or engine) plain and simple.

>   2. Can an installed module with av11n be properly displayed with all of
> its content? Or with only some of its content?

With all means av11n is supported. With some means it's not supported.

>   3. Can the application readily navigate to books and chapters that are
> outside the default v11n?

How is this different from #2?

>   4. For av11ns with a different book order, can the module be scrolled in
> the defined av11n book order?
>   5. Can the application display two or more modules with different
> versifications in parallel mode (or as an interlinear view) with proper
> alignment of the text content?

Nothing supports this, as there is no such structure at present which
even provides this ability, at least that I'm aware of, and thus it is
a moot point.

So, we're down to the same answer as I gave earlier:
BibleTime, MacSword2/Eloquent and PocketSword support av11n.
Nothing else does, at least according to the wiki, which somehow
claims Xiphos does support it, which it does not.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Versification comparison script (was Re: osis2mod unhappy with New Testament osisIDs)

[Greg Hellings]

They live within the SWORD source.  If you have the swig executable
you can enable bindings. I prefer to do it with CMake like follows:

mkdir build && cd build
cmake -DSWORD_BINDINGS=Python  ..
make -j5 && sudo make install
pushd bindings/swig/python
python setup.py build
sudo python setup.py install
popd

This should install the Python SWORD module to the system directory
you chose.  You can then import it with "import Sword".  You can also
build them for Perl with basically the same set of instructions -
change -DSWORD_BINDINGS=Python to -DSWORD_BINDINGS="Perl" or
-DSWORD_BINDINGS="Python Perl" if you want to build both sets of
bindings.  You can also build them with autotools, but I don't
remember the switches.

--Greg

2011/7/14 Matěj Cepl :
> Dne 14.7.2011 02:11, Greg Hellings napsal(a):
>>
>> I accept your challenge.  For those of you with the ability to build
>> and install the Python bindings, you will find an (our first, in fact)
>> example Python script named av11n.py. It does as you suggest for an
>
> Stupid question ... where does these bindings live?
>
> Matěj
>
> --
> http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz
> GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
>
> I am a Roman Catholic, so that I do not expect `history' to be
> anything but a `long defeat' -- though it contains (and in
> a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or
> glimpses of final victory.
>      -- J.R.R. Tolkien
>
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] av11n repo timeline?

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:08 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 23:45 -0500, Greg Hellings wrote:
>> Well as for current status I know BibleTime is ready for it and Xiphos
>> is not.
>
> Xiphosw is using it well enough to not crash. I think this applies to
> all current libsword applications. It is just that some parts of a
> module are less accessible or not accessible

"Does not crash" is a very low quality metric for declaring support.
If a user installs a "KJV+A" module into Xiphos or the like and can't
access Baruch through any of the keynav materials, I'm fairly sure
that user would not declare "Well, it's good the program did not
crash. This is the UX I was hoping for. I will highly recommend this
application to my friends."  More likely they would say, "Wow, this
doesn't support the Apocrypha like it said it does. I'm going to
report a bug or simply give up on this software."

>
> JSWORD in turn at the moment does not use the repo refresh.
>
> So, to be honest I see no reason whatsoever to keep the av11n repo out
> of circulations

I would say that at least wait for those front-ends that use the
refresh functionality to add support - Xiphos and BibleCS, minimally.
I didn't realize JSword was so far behind that it couldn't even see
the refresh list.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] av11n repo timeline?

[Greg Hellings]

Well as for current status I know BibleTime is ready for it and Xiphos
is not.  It is on Xiphos' next cycle plan.  Current development for
3.1.5 (which is just to get compatibility with Fedora 15 and Ubuntu
11.10 with GTK3 and WebKit) is completed and it is in the testing and
(Windows) build phase at present.  3.2 is planned next and av11n is
part of that plan. So "Now" according to BibleTime and "Soon"
according to Xiphos - maybe late summer or Fall?

It probably won't be made part of the master list until most of the
applications support it. I think we might be around the 50%-ish
support?  Probably minimally we would want the flagship applications
for each OS to support it.  The list here
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Choosing_a_SWORD_program currently
claims that BT, MacSword2 and PocketSword already support it - it also
says Xiphos partially, which is true; ABS, BD and FB all are waiting
on JSword and BibleCS is waiting on Troy; BPBible has no entry there;
MacSword and SlideBible are both outdated.  So, as is obvious, support
is still pretty weak.

--Greg

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Nic Carter  wrote:
>
> Heya team,
>
> I'm wondering if there's any thoughts about when the av11n repo will be added 
> to the MasterRepo.conf ?  :)
> The reason is that I'm in the process of (trying to) wind down development 
> for the next version of PocketSword (which mainly includes iPad support, 
> along with other little things), and am wondering whether I should hard-code 
> the adding of the av11n repo or if I should force a refresh of the list 
> instead?  There's probably another 1.5 weeks until I've finished with this 
> release, but I really want to give general access to the repo to ppl, without 
> forcing them to have to manually add the repo themselves  :)
>
> Coolies, thank!  :)
> ybic
>        nic...  :)
>
> 
> Nic Carter
> PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app
> www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword
> iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword
>
>
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[sword-devel] Versification comparison script (was Re: osis2mod unhappy with New Testament osisIDs)

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:08 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Actually, we could do with a neat script that can take any OSIS source text,
> and fingerprint it to all the v11ns that we already support.
> Would save a lot of hassle working out where the differences are, and
> deciding whether we have a v11n that is a close enough match to make a
> module.

I accept your challenge.  For those of you with the ability to build
and install the Python bindings, you will find an (our first, in fact)
example Python script named av11n.py. It does as you suggest for an
OSIS file.  As prerequisites you will need the Python module "Sword"
from the library and the Python module "pyquery."  I don't know if
Ubuntu has pyquery, but Fedora does so I suppose Ubuntu does or soon
will and it is part of the PyPI so you should be able to EasyInstall
it.

Just invoke it with the name of an OSIS file and hopefully it will
take care of the rest.  Sample output is as follows
$ av11n.py kjvfull.xml
Opening kjvfull.xml
Fetching a list of versifications
Fetching a list of OSIS IDs
Checking Catholic
There are 4530 OT IDs and 3 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 132 OT IDs and 1 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking Catholic2
There are 4638 OT IDs and 3 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 132 OT IDs and 1 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking German
There are 203 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 133 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking KJV
Your file has all the references in this versification
Your file has no extra references
Checking KJVA
There are 5717 OT IDs and 0 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
Your file has no extra references
Checking Leningrad
There are 202 OT IDs and 0 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 8091 OT IDs and 0 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking Luther
There are 4800 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 133 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking MT
There are 202 OT IDs and 0 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 8091 OT IDs and 0 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking NRSV
There are 0 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in the versification which are
not in your file.
Your file has no extra references
Checking NRSVA
There are 6687 OT IDs and 2 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
Your file has no extra references
Checking Synodal
There are 6777 OT IDs and 4 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 778 OT IDs and 6 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking SynodalP
There are 841 OT IDs and 4 NT IDs in the versification which
are not in your file.
There are 778 OT IDs and 6 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.
Checking Vulg
There are 5512 OT IDs and 1442 NT IDs in the versification
which are not in your file.
There are 794 OT IDs and 7 NT IDs in your file which do not
appear in the versification.

If I mixed it up somewhere, please holler.  If we really need it, this
functionality can be expanded to also read from plain-text files or
imp files or the like.

--Greg

>
> David
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/osis2mod-unhappy-with-New-Testament-osisIDs-tp3663231p3665275.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] osis2mod unhappy with New Testament osisIDs

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:03 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> You actually meant imp2vs for the latter.
>
> It has such an illogical name!

I'm not so sure it's illogical. The 'imp' format seems to need a
little extra help knowing whether to generate a verse-keyed module
instead of a treekey since it doesn't have the richness of OSIS.  Thus
we have imp2vs which only produces Bibles or commentaries whereas
osis2mod can produce any type of module, I believe.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] osis2mod unhappy with New Testament osisIDs

[Greg Hellings]

After I unzip the file, the XML file I open is in some sort of binary
format that I can't read.

--Greg

2011/7/12 Matěj Cepl :
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to make complete OSIS module of the Czech KMS translation from
> the official published text
> (http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModInfo.jsp?modName=CzeKMS is quite
> old) and although xmllint doesn't complain, when running
>
> osis2mod mod/ bible.xml -z -v MT -d 64
>
> I get errors like
>
> You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 2562 $
> ERROR(REF): Invalid osisID/annotateRef: Matt.1.1
>
> for all verses of the New Testament (the Old Testament is apparently OK).
>
> Git repository of the project is available on
> https://gitorious.org/various-small-stuff/czekms and the latest version of
> the generated bible OSIS file is
> http://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/tmp/bible.xml.gz
>
> Any idea, what I am doing wrong to deserve this?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Matěj
>
>
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[sword-devel] New Release

[Greg Hellings]

Troy,

Since you officially announced we have broken binary compatibility,
are we able to get set for a new release of the library soon?

I don't know about other areas, but the CMake that went out with 1.6.2
had a number of bugs and missing features, including it did not
install the locales.d/ folder at all.  Thus, the current version of
Xiphos is planning to build against the current SVN HEAD for the
library, but it would be nicer if it could build against an
established released version.  Is that a possibility or hope for the
near future?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Character Frequency

[Greg Hellings]

Fixed:
$ count.py kjv.xml
Code point  Character   NameCount
20 SPACE 1669596
22  " QUOTATION MARK 1661832
6F  o   LATIN SMALL LETTER O 1330866
72  r   LATIN SMALL LETTER R 1307266
73  s   LATIN SMALL LETTER S 1172801
65  e   LATIN SMALL LETTER E 1156121
6E  n   LATIN SMALL LETTER N 1092384
6D  m   LATIN SMALL LETTER M 1029125
74  t   LATIN SMALL LETTER T 901465
3C  < LESS-THAN SIGN 864037
3E  >  GREATER-THAN SIGN 864037
3D  =EQUALS SIGN 830916
61  a   LATIN SMALL LETTER A 776214
77  w   LATIN SMALL LETTER W 772641
68  h   LATIN SMALL LETTER H 625029
3A  :  COLON 609087
67  g   LATIN SMALL LETTER G 560652
6C  l   LATIN SMALL LETTER L 497519
2F  /SOLIDUS 469056
69  i   LATIN SMALL LETTER I 406801
30  0 DIGIT ZERO 393184
70  p   LATIN SMALL LETTER P 370919
31  1  DIGIT ONE 350731
48  H LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H 312386
32  2  DIGIT TWO 290358
38  8DIGIT EIGHT 283469
33  3DIGIT THREE 263960
64  d   LATIN SMALL LETTER D 257239
2E  .  FULL STOP 220707
35  5 DIGIT FIVE 209066
62  b   LATIN SMALL LETTER B 204056
34  4 DIGIT FOUR 197713
63  c   LATIN SMALL LETTER C 197400
37  7DIGIT SEVEN 193701
36  6  DIGIT SIX 183464
47  G LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G 175932
39  9 DIGIT NINE 172006
2D  -   HYPHEN-MINUS 152074
49  I LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I 133127
4D  M LATIN CAPITAL LETTER M 126782
44  D LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D 121721
4E  N LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N 115182
76  v   LATIN SMALL LETTER V 114636
54  T LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T 113384
75  u   LATIN SMALL LETTER U 111775
79  y   LATIN SMALL LETTER Y 109108
50  P LATIN CAPITAL LETTER P 107290
41  A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A 94242
53  S LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S 85226
66  f   LATIN SMALL LETTER F 84923
2C  ,  COMMA 74768
43  C LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C 73229
4A  J LATIN CAPITAL LETTER J 39531
56  V LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V 36203
6B  k   LATIN SMALL LETTER K 35707
0A
   not found 34899
45  E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E 25991
52  R LATIN CAPITAL LETTER R 24737
46  F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F 23948
4F  O LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O 20676
78  x   LATIN SMALL LETTER X 18179
4C  L LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L 16367
3B  ;  SEMICOLON 10159
7A  z   LATIN SMALL LETTER Z 6930
4B  K LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K 5389
42  B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B 5047
3F  ?  QUESTION MARK 3421
58  X LATIN CAPITAL LETTER X 3283
002026  …HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS 3115
B6  ¶   PILCROW SIGN 2970
6A  j   LATIN SMALL LETTER J 2596
57  W LATIN CAPITAL LETTER W 2489
71  q   LATIN SMALL LETTER Q 2334
27  ' APOSTROPHE 2040
5A  Z LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Z 1776
002013  –EN DASH 920
55  U LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U 797
59  Y LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y 551
21  !   EXCLAMATION MARK 313
28  (   LEFT PARENTHESIS 240
29  )  RIGHT PARENTHESIS 240
51  Q LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Q 199
E6  æ  LATIN SMALL LETTER AE 93
7B  { LEFT CURLY BRACKET 5
7D  }RIGHT CURLY BRACKET 5
C6  ÆLATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE 3
0005D1  ב  HEBREW LETTER BET 1
0005D5  ו  HEBREW LETTER VAV 1
0005D9  י  HEBREW LETTER YOD 1
0005E1  ס   HEB

Re: [sword-devel] Character Frequency

[Greg Hellings]

In fact,

http://dl.thehellings.com/count.py

churns through kjv.xml in 11 seconds on my machine and gives the
desired output of character counts.  Can be invoked with either the
name of a file (python count.py kjv.xml) as part of a pipe (cat
kjv.xml | ./count.py) or with a whole list of files (./count.py
kjv.xml kjvfull.xml kjvlite.xml).

--Greg

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Greg Hellings  wrote:
> A few simple pipes in Unix can do the same thing with relative ease.
>
> cat kjv.xml | sed -e 's/./&\n/g' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
> 1669596
> 1661832 "
> 1330866 o
> 1307266 r
> 1172801 s
> 1156121 e
> 1092384 n
> 1029125 m
>  901465 t
>  864037 >
>  864037 <
>  830916 =
>  776214 a
>  772641 w
>  625029 h
>  609087 :
>  560652 g
>  497519 l
>  469056 /
>  406801 i
>  393184 0
>  370919 p
>  350731 1
>  312386 H
>  290358 2
>  283469 8
>  263960 3
>  257239 d
>  220707 .
>  209066 5
>  204056 b
>  197713 4
>  197400 c
>  193701 7
>  183464 6
>  175932 G
>  172006 9
>  152074 -
>  133127 I
>  126782 M
>  121721 D
>  115182 N
>  114636 v
>  113384 T
>  111775 u
>  109108 y
>  107290 P
>  94242 A
>  85226 S
>  84923 f
>  74768 ,
>  73229 C
>  39531 J
>  36203 V
>  35707 k
>  34899
>  25991 E
>  24737 R
>  23948 F
>  20676 O
>  18179 x
>  16367 L
>  10159 ;
>   6930 z
>   5389 K
>   5047 B
>   4036 …
>   3421 ?
>   3283 X
>   2970 ¶
>   2596 j
>   2489 W
>   2334 q
>   2040 '
>   1776 Z
>    797 U
>    551 Y
>    313 !
>    240 )
>    240 (
>    199 Q
>     93 æ
>      5 }
>      5 {
>      3 Æ
>      1 ת
>      1 ש
>      1 ר
>      1 ק
>      1 צ
>      1 פ
>      1 ע
>      1 ס
>      1 נ
>      1 מ
>      1 ל
>      1 כ
>      1 י
>      1 ט
>      1 ח
>      1 ז
>      1 ו
>      1 ה
>      1 ד
>      1 ג
>      1 ב
>      1 א
>
> The format looks a bit nicer on the terminal.  Takes about 75 seconds
> to run on the file. A few simple lines in Python or the like only
> takes about 10s and is equally simple to whip up.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>> A useful tool for analysing or editing source text files is BabelPad, the
>> Unicode Text Editor (for Windows).
>> http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Software/BabelPad.html
>>
>> One of the Menu Tool Options is Character Frequency.
>>
>> This can be very helpful to detect unexpected code points, such as when the
>> translators were inconsistent when they were editing.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Character-Frequency-tp364p364.html
>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Character Frequency

[Greg Hellings]

A few simple pipes in Unix can do the same thing with relative ease.

cat kjv.xml | sed -e 's/./&\n/g' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
1669596
1661832 "
1330866 o
1307266 r
1172801 s
1156121 e
1092384 n
1029125 m
 901465 t
 864037 >
 864037 <
 830916 =
 776214 a
 772641 w
 625029 h
 609087 :
 560652 g
 497519 l
 469056 /
 406801 i
 393184 0
 370919 p
 350731 1
 312386 H
 290358 2
 283469 8
 263960 3
 257239 d
 220707 .
 209066 5
 204056 b
 197713 4
 197400 c
 193701 7
 183464 6
 175932 G
 172006 9
 152074 -
 133127 I
 126782 M
 121721 D
 115182 N
 114636 v
 113384 T
 111775 u
 109108 y
 107290 P
  94242 A
  85226 S
  84923 f
  74768 ,
  73229 C
  39531 J
  36203 V
  35707 k
  34899
  25991 E
  24737 R
  23948 F
  20676 O
  18179 x
  16367 L
  10159 ;
   6930 z
   5389 K
   5047 B
   4036 …
   3421 ?
   3283 X
   2970 ¶
   2596 j
   2489 W
   2334 q
   2040 '
   1776 Z
797 U
551 Y
313 !
240 )
240 (
199 Q
 93 æ
  5 }
  5 {
  3 Æ
  1 ת
  1 ש
  1 ר
  1 ק
  1 צ
  1 פ
  1 ע
  1 ס
  1 נ
  1 מ
  1 ל
  1 כ
  1 י
  1 ט
  1 ח
  1 ז
  1 ו
  1 ה
  1 ד
  1 ג
  1 ב
  1 א

The format looks a bit nicer on the terminal.  Takes about 75 seconds
to run on the file. A few simple lines in Python or the like only
takes about 10s and is equally simple to whip up.

--Greg

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> A useful tool for analysing or editing source text files is BabelPad, the
> Unicode Text Editor (for Windows).
> http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Software/BabelPad.html
>
> One of the Menu Tool Options is Character Frequency.
>
> This can be very helpful to detect unexpected code points, such as when the
> translators were inconsistent when they were editing.
>
> David
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Character-Frequency-tp364p364.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] FMT_XHTML [was: classes spans vs presentational encoding]

[Greg Hellings]

No, it's just the constant value given to the new XHTML output
filters, which are combinations of our FMT_WEBIF and FMT_HTMLHREF
filters.

--Greg

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:29 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Is FMT_XHTML related in any way to what Jim Allbright is working on at
> Wycliffe?
>
> See  http://ws.ibs.org/niv/samples/ScriptureXHTML.htm
> http://ws.ibs.org/niv/samples/ScriptureXHTML.htm
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
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> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] FMT_XHTML [was: classes spans vs presentational encoding]

[Greg Hellings]

I'm curious as to why you opted to make another new filter set that
was a copy of one, rather than just fixing the old one. What does
keeping htmlhref the way it is gain?

--Greg

On Tuesday, June 28, 2011, Troy A. Griffitts  wrote:
> As discussed, I've added a new Render filter set: FMT_XHTML
>
> As usual, if you create your SWMgr asking for this Render output, you
> will get the new markup:
>
> SWMgr library(new MarkupFilterMgr(FMT_XHTML));
>
> SWModule *kjv = library.getModule("KJV");
>
> kjv->setText("jn.3.16");
> cout << kjv->RenderText();
>
> but now you can also ask for any header information which might be
> available and useful:
>
> cout << kjv->getRenderHeader();
>
>
>
> examples/cmdline/lookup now will print any header information if it is
> available.
>
>
> The FMT_WEBIF filter set is now based on the FMT_XHTML filters, so any
> changes to the XHTML filters will also affect the WEBIF format.
>
>
> I have only made very small changes to the FMT_XHTML filters after
> copying them from the FMT_HTMLHREF filter set.  It should be safe to
> switch your render output to the new FMT_XHTML if you are currently
> using the FMT_HTMLHREF render output.  The small changes should only
> involve divineName, words of Christ, and title, if I remember correctly.
>  I believe title has changed to , word of Christ is  class="wordsOfJesus">, and divineName is .
>
>
> If you want the default styles, use the new getRenderHeader() method
> which will give you basic styles for these classes.  Then override them
> if you wish.
>
>
> Feel free to suggest classed XHTML markup for the rest of the untouched
> tags or if you have access, update them yourself, but please be
> considerate and try to supply a style in the header which keeps the
> current rendering.
>
>
> Peter, the WEBIF format is a subclass of the most recent HTML output
> filters with slight overrides for rendering notes and word as javascript
> clickable areas used in SWORDWEB (or any other Web Interface which wants
> to use them).
>
>
> We have now officially broken binary compatibility with 1.6.  If we need
> to make a bugfix release to 1.6.2 then we will need to branch trunk.
>
>
>
> Hope this is goes somewhere,
>
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28/06/11 09:23, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>> On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 12:26 +0200, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>>> As DM has suggested, I am all in favor of copying the current osis to
>>> htmlhref filter (or actually copying and merging in the changes from
>>> webif filter) to osisxhtml
>>
>> What is the webif filter about? I see it is has been there a while, but
>> I have not really checked it out prior today. It clearly is similar to
>> osishtmlhref.
>>
>>> and slowing changing markup to use classed
>>> spans and providing a SWBuf OSISXHTML::getHeader(); method which would
>>> supply a basic header to prepend to a display object when rendering.
>>
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Font size specification inside

[Greg Hellings]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:46 PM, DM Smith  wrote:
>
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 5:57 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM, DM Smith  wrote:
>>> On 06/24/2011 01:03 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, for sure.  We also have this problem on swordweb. Any ideas?  I
>>> thought at one time we were supplying a + size on the first letter or
>>> something.  Any bright ideas welcome.
>>>
>>> Is there any reason not to use small caps? I.e.
>>> Lord becomes Lord?
>>>
>>> For BibleDesktop we don't have span, so we use the equivalent of >> style="font-variant: small-caps">Lord. It works quite well.
>>
>> I think it would be more in line with what Troy has mentioned we would
>> like to move towards if we did Lord
>> and then the application can display it as appropriate with CSS class
>> definitions (akin to how David mentions it).  If that's where we want
>> to go, why can't we just head that way now?
>
> I think it was because GnomeSword could not use CSS. I don't know if xiphos' 
> use of xulrunner or it's replacement webkit has any problems with external 
> stylesheets.
> One solution would be to deprecate the current render, leaving it as is and 
> create a clone of it that uses span and class for elements.
>
> In Him,
>        DM

My understanding is that gtkhtml cannot handle _external_ stylesheets
and that it does not have advanced CSS support, but that it does
support CSS1 and some of CSS2, so the stylesheet could be placed in
the header of the HTML template.  Either way, gtkhtml and Xul are both
being deprecated in Xiphos as we speak in favor of Webkit, which
supports a very large host of CSS 1, 2 and even CSS 3.  By using a
class="divinename" instead of style="font-variant: small-caps" you can
allow the application to select whatever it wants to do for Divine
Name (or, heaven forbid it, allow the module to define an external
stylesheet that specifies how a divine name be rendered - if at all!)
rather than forcing it on them from the renderer.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Font size specification inside

[Greg Hellings]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM, DM Smith  wrote:
> On 06/24/2011 01:03 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>
> Yeah, for sure.  We also have this problem on swordweb. Any ideas?  I
> thought at one time we were supplying a + size on the first letter or
> something.  Any bright ideas welcome.
>
> Is there any reason not to use small caps? I.e.
> Lord becomes Lord?
>
> For BibleDesktop we don't have span, so we use the equivalent of  style="font-variant: small-caps">Lord. It works quite well.

I think it would be more in line with what Troy has mentioned we would
like to move towards if we did Lord
and then the application can display it as appropriate with CSS class
definitions (akin to how David mentions it).  If that's where we want
to go, why can't we just head that way now?

--Greg

>
> In Him,
> DM
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 24/06/11 13:48, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>
> We had a bug report against Xiphos, that changing the base font size
> when displaying RNKJV causes all text to resize _except_ divine names.
> That is, module markup contains e.g. Yahushua
> all over the place.  What comes out of the engine for this includes its
> own font size specification, without regard to what the Xiphos user has
> chosen as his base font size for everything.
>
> Is there any way to address this, so that what comes out of the engine
> is a relative size choice, rather than a fixed one?
>
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Re: [sword-devel] BREW Development?

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:39 AM, David (Mailing List Addy)
 wrote:
> On Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:00:45 PM Greg Hellings wrote:
>> As I understood it the FSF had (at least in the past) declared that
>> there was an incompatibility.  But IIRC, the incompatibility was
>> actually that Apple is always violating the GPL with its distribution.
>> Since the GPL states that the person doing the distribution is
>> required to make the code and any modifications to the program
>> publicly available to the people to whom they distribute the app.
>> Thus, to be in compliance Apple would need to have a place where
>> people could download the source code plus their technology for
>> digitally signing the compiled apps, etc, in order to be in touch with
>> the GPL.  (That's how I understood it. That could be totally bogus.)
>
> INAL (nor do I play one on tv, and I haven't even slept at a holiday in
> express) but  there is a Linux distribution called Mepis that is a derivative
> of Debian that got in hot water with the FSF for not distributing the source
> code themselves but rather upstream debian distribution. The FSF said that was
> not a valid way to distribute the source in compliance with the GPL, and thus
> Mepis had to distribute source packages drectly even if they did not modify
> the code. I would imagine app stores fall under the same issue.

That is in line with my understanding also. However, if the copyright
holder does not bring the case against Apple, I am doubtful anyone
else would be able to legitimately bring suit.  So just don't go
screaming to or at Apple about the GPL nature of the App and you can
probably slip in under the radar.  It may not be technically compliant
on Apple's part, but we're the ones who get to make a fuss about it,
not them.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] BREW Development?

[Greg Hellings]

As I understood it the FSF had (at least in the past) declared that
there was an incompatibility.  But IIRC, the incompatibility was
actually that Apple is always violating the GPL with its distribution.
Since the GPL states that the person doing the distribution is
required to make the code and any modifications to the program
publicly available to the people to whom they distribute the app.
Thus, to be in compliance Apple would need to have a place where
people could download the source code plus their technology for
digitally signing the compiled apps, etc, in order to be in touch with
the GPL.  (That's how I understood it. That could be totally bogus.)

So long as you aren't about to chase down Apple and yell at them for
not giving away your source, but state in the program where the source
is available and that it's under the GPL, etc, then you're probably
good to go from a practical standpoint even if Apple is technically
dropping the ball on the GPL.

--Greg

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Nic Carter  wrote:
>
> My understanding of GPL (other than my general dislike for it) is that it is 
> fine with iOS development as it stands.  Originally you weren't allowed to 
> share ANY code you had written for iOS, as part of the insane NDA that you 
> needed to agree with in order to get the iOS APIs, but that has all passed, 
> and Apple encourages sharing of code so they get more developers and more 
> apps and more ppl buying their devices (they _do_ like making money, it 
> appears!)...  ;)
>
> So, PocketSword is GPL'd, the source is available for download, and the GPL 
> licence is installed on each user's device when they install PS from the app 
> store.  True, if they want to compile it themselves and install it on their 
> own device, that's a little bit of a hassle, but they _can_.  :)
>
> If anyone can see any issues or flaws in the above, please let me know, cause 
> I'd rather PS was doing the right thing.  I believe the FSF has said iOS 
> development and OSS can mix, so that's all good AFAIK...  In fact, I know of 
> an app (Colloquy) which is OSS on both the Mac & iOS, but if you get it from 
> the iOS App Store, they charge 99c or something.  I chose to download the src 
> and compile and install myself, which meant it was "free"...  It may be their 
> way of trying to recover some of the fees that Apple charge to be able to be 
> a developer on the App Store ($99 per year, which is actually why PocketSword 
> is available on the App Store under my name, rather than CrossWire Bible 
> Society, cause I just used my account, rather than pay an additional $99 per 
> year for a CrossWire account!)...
>
>
> Ummm, so, yes, if you can point out how the distribution model of an app 
> affects how it is GPL compatible, I'd be very interested in hearing it.  :)
>
>
> Thanks, ybic
>        nic...  :)
>
> 
> Nic Carter
> PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app
> www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword
> iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword
>
> On 17/06/2011, at 10:01 AM, David (Mailing List Addy) wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:18:57 PM Mike Hart wrote:
>>> ottom line, BREW is not an open system, and is not compatible with the
>>> business model Sword and GoBible operate under (free, Free, FREE.)
>>
>> From what I understand App Repos like the Apple App Store and the Android
>> Market are also not "open systems" and are technically not GPL compatible,
>> though I have been assuming we've been giving an understood license exception
>> to And Bible, Pocket Sword and probably now whatever Mac Sword's new name is
>> (escapes me off hand) so they can be distributed under their respective 
>> repos.
>> But I could be mistaken on that.
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Perseus

[Greg Hellings]

David has provided the link below.  Also, the "About" link has some
very good information on what it is capable of.

--Greg

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:36 PM, David Troidl  wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Check out http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/opensource, and the Download
> link there.
>
> Peace,
>
> David
>
> On 6/16/2011 6:55 PM, Mike Hart wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> Can you provide a link?  I'm looking at something google says is perseus,
>> but I'm not seeing any code access on the frontside.
>>
>>
>>
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[sword-devel] Perseus

[Greg Hellings]

Have any of us looked diligently at the Perseus Tools collection to
judge whether or not any of its texts (and technologies!) could be
leveraged into SWORD?  They have a massive corpus of ancient Greek and
Latin materials, including some very good and extensive dictionaries.
Additionally they have some impressive text parsing technology hidden
in their code (which is, according to their About, mainly in Java and
Perl) which either the library or front ends might leverage to
excellent effect.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Help converting text to imp

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
> python is too big a weapon for this.

Perhaps for you. Some people don't like to put together pipes of that
size and/or don't grasp Bash well enough to see what is going on in
your pipes.  Just offering another possibility.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Help converting text to imp

[Greg Hellings]

Python could also easily be used. Not that this would work, but here's
the skeleton code

import fileinput
import Sword

mgr = Sword.SWMgr()
mod = mgr.getModule('KJV')
key = mod.getKey()
for line in fileinput.input():
  print "$$$%s\n%s" % (key.toString(), line)
  key.increment()

I forget the exact method call that converts a key into its string
representation, but it's something like that.  You then would execute
the above script like so:

./convert.py test.vpl

and its output should be in imp format.

--Greg

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> You could do following:
>
> 1) create a sheet in your favourite spreadsheet.
>
> 2) add the output of diatheke with a KJV module into it, so that column 1 has 
> teh references, column 2 the text. You do this by importing the diatheke 
> output as CSV and choose your delimiting character carefully.
>
> 3) You drop the text column.
>
> 4) You add your text as a column
>
> 5) you run up and down the text to ensure that the text is correctly lined up.
>
> 6) You export as a CSV file, choosing a decent delimiter again - e.g. a colon.
>
> 7) You rename the csv file into a text file (this is optional)
>
> Then you run a version of  the sed script Karl gave you.
>
> All of the above could be done a lot faster and with less effort via a few 
> lines of Perl, but I guess the recommendations above are at the level you are 
> comfortable to work at.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>  Original-Nachricht 
>> Datum: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:36:57 -0400
>> Von: Angel Candelaria 
>> An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum" 
>> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Help converting text to imp
>
>> Ok, now I see the problem.
>>
>> You are assuming my text file has the verse references on it, but the
>> fact is that it doesn't.  Maybe I didn't explain myself well.  My text
>> file looks like this:
>>
>> In the beginning God created the heavens...
>> And the earth was without form, and void...
>>
>> and so on; no verse references, chapters or book headings, just the
>> texts one after the other until the end.  That's why it didn't work
>>
>> So, in order to be able to use the sed command you gave me, I'll need
>> to add the references first.  Is there a way I can add the references
>> in an automated way, so I can later on use sed to format it to imp?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Karl Kleinpaste 
>> wrote:
>> > Angel Candelaria  writes:
>> >> For some reason that didn't work
>> >
>> > $ cat text.vpl
>> > gen 1:1 in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth.
>> > john 3:16 for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten
>> son...
>> > $ sed -e 's/^\(.\+ [0-9]\+:[0-9]\+\) /\$\$\$\1\n/' < text.vpl > text.imp
>> > $ cat text.imp
>> > $$$gen 1:1
>> > in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth.
>> > $$$john 3:16
>> > for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...
>> >
>> >> Now, is there a way to put the corresponding labels after the $$$'s?
>> >
>> > Well, the labels at the beginning of the lines of text.vpl are what end
>> > up in the "$$$" keys.
>> >
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Re: [sword-devel] RVR2011

[Greg Hellings]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Mike Hart  wrote:
> Based on the text seeming to follow the Assembly de Yahweh's theology and not 
> following any known Greek manuscript, I'm going to have to suggest it is 
> flawed enough that it needs significant revision before it could be hosted by 
> Crosswire...

http://crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Cults

> if ever.   Hopefully the translator will now be able to use the Crosswire 
> tools to see the flaws in their text and correct
> them.
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference

[Greg Hellings]

I would also like to say that if the main issue appears to revolve
around character encodings and the Windows utils work while a
hand-build Linux version fumbles on the encoding, it is very possible
that the Linux built versions are lacking ICU, which I believe is used
by SWORD to help with encoding and decoding different text versions.
Make sure you have the ICU developer packages installed when building
SWORD, and then try it again to see if that might be the problem.

--Greg

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> Jonathan has given a clear explanation why the imp format is more useful.
>
> Bending the utilities by using old windows utilities on wine on Linux seems 
> to me bizarre and not something I think we should either promote or document 
> on the wiki as a valid way of working.
>
> If there is an issue with vpl2mod (which well may be, given that no one of 
> the CrossWire core module makers will use it with any regularity) then the 
> appropriate way forward is
>
> a) to document it in the bugs database
> b) provide a clean sample text which causes the described behaviour
> c) use working alternatives (imp) instead of creating some crutches
>
> Wrt cleaning up of odd texts - It is a good idea to look first into a text 
> with issues and check what weird characters are there in use (prior to 
> claiming that the Sword utilities do not work). I have not infrequently found 
> all kinds of control characters lying around in texts which gave me 
> difficulties. Some editors will show them, others not.
>
> uni2ascii is a good utility to transform _all_ characters into their 
> hexadecimal representation which then can get easily analysed for presence of 
> weirdness.
>
> Peter
>
>
>  Original-Nachricht 
>> Datum: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
>> Von: Mike Hart 
>> An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum 
>> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
>
>> FYI:
>>
>> I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I
>> do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)  I see no missing space
>> characters
>>  in BibleTime with the completed module.  It looks complete with the
>> spaces.  I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same
>> without any changes.
>> That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
>> book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the coding
>> the file came to me.)
>>
>> The module he sent me
>> (verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on
>> windows. I just have some validation
>> built into my process that I wanted to do.
>>
>> This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only
>> handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation marks
>> for me.  The windows version is far more robust (no issues with encoding
>> or special characters that I know of.)
>>
>> Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the archaic
>> windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD, note
>> it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98
>> compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on windows 
>> Vista
>> (or Windows 7?)
>>
>> If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki
>> somewhere.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference

[Greg Hellings]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Angel Candelaria
 wrote:
> Thanks David for your insights.
>
> The module I'm working on is called "Reina Valera Restaurada 2011"
> which you can find at http://www.asambleadeyahweh.com . This version
> was made based on RVR1909 by José Alvarez, the leader of Asamblea de
> Yahweh in Puerto Rico (they are a "descendant" of the Yahwe's Assembly
> in the Messiah movement of USA).  I'm his assistant, and he gave me
> permission to work on this module.  In fact, the bible is available
> freely at the website I just mentioned.
>
> About the format, what will it require to change my vpl text to an imp
> format? I am so close at getting this in order that trying another
> format seems like "starting over".  But if there's no other way, I may
> have to do it.

In the imp format an entry looks like this:
$$$Matthew 1:1
The text of
Matthew 1:1 spread out here
in the following lines
$$$Matthew 1:2
The text of Matthew 1:2 here in
the next lines

So you'd need to insert $$$Reference lines between each line of the
text. It's still a very simple markup, not much more than vpl, but
able to handle alternate versifications.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 6:32 PM, David (Mailing List Addy)
 wrote:
> On Friday, May 27, 2011 11:29:47 AM Greg Hellings wrote:
>> Of course, that provides no help to those modules who might use
> other
>> markers (NIV-inspired half brackets, full brackets, I've seen texts that
> use
>> an asterisk to mark such words, etc) for added text. In a browser
> these
>> might be handled with a snippet of JavaScript, but support for JS is
> even
>> more widely varied among SWORD applications than is CSS support (I
> can't
>> imagine that JSword can support JS at all, currently Xiphos probably
> can't.
>> And of course, I choose to completely ignore non-HTML front ends as
> not
>> being worthy of consideration) and is even less desirable than CSS.
>
> Actually, that can be handled with CSS purely, I have worked on most if
> not all of the Bibletime CSS templates (and am working on a CSS3 one)
> and there is a :before and :after pseudo-selectors, and a content
> command you can use to add content such as brackets or whatever
> [Unicode] character you wish (for half-brackets for instance) here's a
> snippet from the CSS for putting []'s around footnote numbers. And
> this is well supported in WebKit which BT currently uses, and has used
> for a while (or the parent KHTML engine) and probably Gecko, or other
> rendering engines.

I did not realize that WebKit had picked up this particular
pseudoclass already. I knew it was coming in CSS3, but I haven't
followed its adoption closely.  Well that makes the problem
straightforward to solve for BibleTime and (soon) Xiphos if support
for module CSS was adopted.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?

[Greg Hellings]

David,

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:12 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Thanks Greg,
>
> That's a very helpful summary of the multiple difficulties, not the least of
> which is manpower.
>
> It almost makes one wonder how anything got done to support added words
> (even for the KJV), despite having well defined markup tags in both USFM and
> OSIS for several years now. ;>}

This is because someone just operated under the assumption that added
words meant italics, and produced a straightforward and simple mapping
to the HTML  or the RTF equivalent.

>
> Since nothing is universally agreed (the premier difficulty), perhaps it
> could usefully be drawn to the attention of the wider community at next
> year's Bible Technology conference?

It's probably not of any interest to other software producers. While
I'm not privvy to most technologies out there, I do know that Logos
does not wrangle and wring its hands and cry over the possibility that
a module's style sheet might mess with the application's design, etc.
Every module has a style sheet that uses a technology which resembles
XML-aware sed in its power to insert arbitrary text and styles into
the module.  I would imagine OliveTree and e-Sword and everyone else
in the field who wants to be taken seriously does as well.

As an example, the industry standard format for book publishing
recently released its latest update wherein they adopted HTML5 as the
mechanism for representing a work.  Complete with support for CSS and
JavaScript within the works to allow each book to customize its
styling.  And here we are wringing our hands over allowing a module to
have a CSS file (which David documents in his just previous email
would be sufficient for all the problems mentioned here).

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?

[Greg Hellings]

Well let's see what we would need done:

1) A universally agreed-upon method of rendering added words for every
language we support modules in and logic to note the module's language and
render accordingly.  This would be a tedious undertaking, although not
particularly complicated to implement. However, it would be flatly the wrong
method of implementation, since added words are not rendered the same in all
English versions (while other languages have their details given elsewhere
in this thread).

2) Or each application would need to provide a mechanism to allow every
module to determine how to render added text. Some modules might use italics
or font colors, which would be easy if we could get every HTML filter around
to always produce the same markup (for example text
here). But there are multiple HTML filters (the engine-supplied ones,
JSword's, BibleTime's and maybe others), some of them not particularly
actively supported, and I'll let you ask Troy about how close we are to
getting every application to agree to use the same type of markup.
 Additionally this method would require applications to allow each module to
supply (at least a limited amount of) CSS to render these. You can see other
discussions I've started to see how well that was received (I'll give you a
hint - it was rejected out of hand by multiple people).

Of course, that provides no help to those modules who might use other
markers (NIV-inspired half brackets, full brackets, I've seen texts that use
an asterisk to mark such words, etc) for added text. In a browser these
might be handled with a snippet of JavaScript, but support for JS is even
more widely varied among SWORD applications than is CSS support (I can't
imagine that JSword can support JS at all, currently Xiphos probably can't.
 And of course, I choose to completely ignore non-HTML front ends as not
being worthy of consideration) and is even less desirable than CSS.


I don't know about other applications, but Xiphos and BibleTime are both
hardly in a position to consider this effort for the time being.  Xiphos'
team is frantically trying to ditch embedded Gecko/Xulrunner and GTKHTML to
move to Webkit as well as suffering from some incompatibilities with GTK3
and Fedora Core 15.  Appearance of added text is hardly on Xiphos' list of
even interesting problems at the moment. And BibleTime has just had its
first commits in an extended period of time - I doubt it has the man hours
right now to tackle any such feature.

--Greg

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:02 AM, David Haslam wrote:

> This thread seems to have ground to a halt at the end of April, but with no
> positive outcome other than a nice exchange of ideas.
>
> Is there any likelihood that someone with the right programming skills
> might
> take this on?
>
> Even though we might steer translators to adopt USFM (in place of MS Word)
> the opportunity to make use of \add_...\add* will be wasted unless SWORD
> front-ends can display the OSIS equivalent as meaningfully different for
> Arabo-Persian scripts.
>
> cf. At least while they are using MS Word, such added words could be
> "de-highlighted" by means of a grey font colour.
>
> Likewise for many other scripts that don't make use of italics. There can
> still be a display problem for scripts that do have italics capability.
>
> In Cyrillic languages using italics for added words is less attractive, not
> as common, and not so easily spotted compared to Latin scripts. Using a
> grey
> font color might be deemed preferable.
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Rendering-added-words-for-languages-that-don-t-use-italics-tp3459750p3555725.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Display versification name in the module managers?

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:43 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Just a thought...
>
> As we move towards front-end support for modules with alternate
> versification, might it be useful for the module managers to include a
> column that displays the name of the versification?
>
> cf. CrossWire Experimental now has many more Bible modules that are there
> temporarily until someone decides they can be moved to the CrossWire av11n
> repository.
>
> I'm thinking that this might be something to implement first in the Xiphos
> module manager.
> e.g. Perhaps between the Available column and the Size column?

Perhaps Xiphos should have av11n support before it goes about
implementing this.  Bibletime has av11n support, so perhaps this is
something that Bibletime could add to its module manager.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] How many of our Bible modules are red letter editions?

[Greg Hellings]

$ grep -r /space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/ -e 'RedLetterWords'
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/thaikjv.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/rusvzh.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=GBFRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/ukrainian.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/web.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/chamorro.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=GBFRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/sparvg2004.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/emtv.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/hnv.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/kjv.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/spatdp.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/ukrkulish.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords
/space/home/ftp/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/esv.conf:GlobalOptionFilter=OSISRedLetterWords

That's from the official repository.  Of course, that is only OSIS
(and one GBF) modules. ThML modules have no particular way to indicate
in their conf files that the words of Christ are in red, as they would
just indicate it with inline styling.

--Greg
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 3:20 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Apart from the KJV module (with red letter markup based on the Louis Klopsch
> edition of 1900),
> how many of our Bible modules are
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_letter_edition red letter editions ?
>
> The answer should include any non-English modules that have red letter
> markup.
>
> Presumably, it should be feasible to script the answer to this question
> reading all the .conf files for each repo.
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/How-many-of-our-Bible-modules-are-red-letter-editions-tp3512909p3512909.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 11.04

[Greg Hellings]

On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Barry Drake  wrote:
> Hi there   Currently, Natty 10.04 offers a binary for Xiphos that
> won't install because Xulrunner is now not only deprecated but marked as
> 'forbidden' (whatever that means).  Bibletime is OK however.

This is known. Xiphos team is working on updating the application to
work in non-Xul, non-GTK2 situations.

>
> There seems to be a slight issue in the current BibleTime binary in the
> Natty repo (2.5) in that turning footnotes on/off does nothing.  They
> always seem to show.

For some reason either Debian or Ubuntu refuses to get the latest
BibleTime version. Try installing a version that is not 18 months or
so old. :)  You can add the PPA for Crosswire and that should contain
at least a BT 2.8.0, possibly 2.8.1 version.  I'm guessing that this
problem has been fixed in the intervening time.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Pilcrows in the KJV Apocrypha?

[Greg Hellings]

My print copy does have the one at I Esdras 2:8 but not at 3:13. 4:13 I
already mentioned.

While the facsimile is nice, it is not particularly relevant for us. Our KJV
is not the KJV of 1611 but rather of 1769 or whatever the date was, so we
should not base our module off of that facsimile.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Mike Hart  wrote:

> A facsimile of the 1611 KJV printing can be viewed at
>
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/holybiblefacsimi00polluoft#page/n1152/mode/1up
>
> (Opens at the beginning of the apocrypha).
>
> I see pilcrows at the title of each book and one appearing at I Esdras 2:8,
> I Esdras 3:13, I Esdras 4:13, ...  I'm not counting them all, but they
> originally appeared more frequently than every 30 pages (if the book I'm
> referencing is what it claims to be.)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, David Haslam * wrote:
>
>
> From: David Haslam 
> Subject: [sword-devel] Pilcrows in the KJV Apocrypha?
> To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 1:12 PM
>
>
> I myself don't have a printed copy of the KJV complete with the Apocrypha.
>
> If anyone on this list has one, could I have a yes / no answer as to
> whether
> any of the Apocryphal books contain  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilcrow
> pilcrow  ¶ signs.
>
> My gut feeling is that most (if not all) online digitized copies would omit
> these.
>
> It seems to be a generally overlooked punctuation mark.
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pilcrows-in-the-KJV-Apocrypha-tp3473764p3473764.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Pilcrows in the KJV Apocrypha?

[Greg Hellings]

According to the wiki article on the Revised Version, my apocrypha
must by the King James translation, since the RV of the apocrypha was
not released until 1895.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Greg Hellings  wrote:
> I have a hard copy that is KJV Old Testament and parallel KJV and RV
> New Testament, put out around 1884 or so, right before the Revised
> Version Old Testament was released.  The Apocrypha only appears in a
> single translation which I assume means that it is the KJV
> translation.  I just spot-checked through a number of pages and only
> observed one Pilcrow at the beginning of 1 Esdras 4:13.  That is not
> to say there are not others, but doing a simple scan through about 25
> or 30 pages only revealed that one to me.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:12 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
>> I myself don't have a printed copy of the KJV complete with the Apocrypha.
>>
>> If anyone on this list has one, could I have a yes / no answer as to whether
>> any of the Apocryphal books contain  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilcrow
>> pilcrow  ¶ signs.
>>
>> My gut feeling is that most (if not all) online digitized copies would omit
>> these.
>>
>> It seems to be a generally overlooked punctuation mark.
>>
>> David
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pilcrows-in-the-KJV-Apocrypha-tp3473764p3473764.html
>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Pilcrows in the KJV Apocrypha?

[Greg Hellings]

I have a hard copy that is KJV Old Testament and parallel KJV and RV
New Testament, put out around 1884 or so, right before the Revised
Version Old Testament was released.  The Apocrypha only appears in a
single translation which I assume means that it is the KJV
translation.  I just spot-checked through a number of pages and only
observed one Pilcrow at the beginning of 1 Esdras 4:13.  That is not
to say there are not others, but doing a simple scan through about 25
or 30 pages only revealed that one to me.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:12 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
> I myself don't have a printed copy of the KJV complete with the Apocrypha.
>
> If anyone on this list has one, could I have a yes / no answer as to whether
> any of the Apocryphal books contain  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilcrow
> pilcrow  ¶ signs.
>
> My gut feeling is that most (if not all) online digitized copies would omit
> these.
>
> It seems to be a generally overlooked punctuation mark.
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pilcrows-in-the-KJV-Apocrypha-tp3473764p3473764.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] CSS Again... (was Re: Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?)

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
 wrote:
> Again, to be rude and top-post, not having a specific line in the
> message to which I wish to comment...
>
> I don't believe anyone is against HTML rendering frontends supplying
> stylesheets to their output.
>
> I believe Bibletime does this for their user selectable themes.

This is correct. As part of my changes to BibleTime I migrated themes
out of being HTML templates where all the HTML structure was identical
and the included CSS was different to be a single HTML template with
an included CSS file which differed.

This, however, is nothing remotely like allowing a module to specify
its own rendering stylesheet.  Using CSS as a technology and using CSS
as a paradigm are far cries from one another.

>
> I have often lamented the fact that we have at least 3 HTML rendering
> filter sets and have stated that I would love for us all to agree on a
> common, more class-ified HTML output if everyone would concede to share
> the same filter set and help improve the commonly used code.

I think you might get a more robust agreement if the internal
technology were more akin to JSword's.  And I'm not talking about its
use of XSL because you have already stated your firm opposition to it.
 But if filters brought source material into OSIS and then the
HTML-rendering filters were a single implementation of SAX-style
processing out of OSIS (you have said that SWORD has a SAX-like
interface), you might find this goal easier.  BibleTime's extension of
the OSISHTMLHREF class seems to use a process similar to SAX.

>
> I believe frontend developers were in general agreement that
> module-specific style sheets would be a bad idea because they already
> currently allow custom styles for their users and there would most
> certainly be a conflict between what the module writer desires and for
> what the user asks.

An argument which really has no credibility. For 14 years the Web has
been working positively smashingly with the CSS technology. It is
specifically designed to allow this type of conflict to be resolved by
having a well-defined hierarchy of style resolution: user important >
author important > author normal > user normal > user agent. Author
stylesheets are resolved as such: style tag > inline > external.  If
you want to read more about it, it is one of the more lucid, brief and
straight-forward w3c statements:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#cascading-order.

Why this is able to work for tens of millions of websites and web
pages who have no control over their users' user-agents but can't be
used by us, who have extensive control over how the user can see the
data is beyond me.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> The  interpretation happens very late in our chain - at rendering filter 
> level. And I would think it is probably a wrong
> decision. It would be trivial to change that to  which in turn might be 
> rendered more likely in an appropriate emphasis of
> whatever sort in scripts which do not do italics.
>

 is supposed to be back and in full force with HTML5, no longer
carrying the "emphasis" idea.   is still present to mean emphasis.
 Use of  by us for this indication would be incorrect, as we are
not trying to emphasize the words, but rather indicate they are a
translation change. A more appropriate method would be word and then let the translation choose
how it wants this represented in an HTML-based display. Which pretty
much sums up everywhere except BibleCS.

> Wrt CSS - I do not want to reopen the debate. But at the core of this 
> particular problem is a fairly arbitrary set of conventions
> which presumably vary wildly across cultures - and even in our own language. 
> The KJV and some related Bibles "tag"
> translation additions by packing them into []. Others use italics. We do not 
> know what Chinese, Mongolians, Arabs use.
> Maybe they ignore the issue, maybe they use pink colouring for the fonts.
>

KJVs used italics. Some English translations use [word]. Some use
⌊word⌋. Some ignore the issue completely.  I think we're not dealing
with a language-level problem here but a translation-level problem.
Some translators recognize that they are required to provide multiple
words in some cases for the target language and combine multiple
source words. And they realize that the average reader will only be
confused by "Well the word 'is' does not really appear in the
original, so maybe this meaning is completely wrong," because the
average reader doesn't know that it was common in the source language
to omit the word 'is' and other equivalent scenarios.

This issue is really a per-module issue and not a per-language or
per-frontend issue.

> This could therefore be seen as a style issue, as all these issues could be 
> rendered successfully (as long as the render
> engines understand the directives) at that level - adding a [ via "before" 
> directive, changing font colour or indeed shifting to
> italics.
>
> Alternatively - and we have discussed this in another place - there is also a 
> need for some locale dependent rendering of
> references, and this matter would be somewhat related. Instead of css styling 
> the one before last step in the filters could
> presumably read and apply loalised rendering info ([..],  style="font-color:pink"> or  tags) for any of these issues -
> i.e. by using the relevant set of alternatives in any of the issues where we 
> want a localised output. This would then work
> across the board of libsword derived frontends (or not).
>
> Wrt implementation, if the  tag would do the job across scripts - and 
> this would be a worthwhile project for someone not
> too skilled - then this woudl be all we wanted. And it would be a simple 
> implementation.

I think choosing a presentation markup, like , is a terrible idea.
It completely leaves out your own hypothetical "What if they choose to
use light pink" scenario and forces everyone to go with whatever 
might do to their script, including not appear at all, cause those
words to be read more loudly or forcefully or cause extra markers for
emphasis to be added or cause new words in a language to be added,
etc. Generally the purpose of denoting  is to actually do
the exact opposite - deemphasize the word as, "This was not in the
original language, so treat it with caution."

--Greg

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[sword-devel] CSS Again... (was Re: Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?)

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM, DM Smith  wrote:
> In principle, I like the idea of CSS, but I think there are difficulties
> with CSS. It presumes the elements and structure of what is being styled and
> that the display can handle it.

Are these problems greater than our current solution of "Sorry, nope,
you can't style _anything_ because there are some niche cases where
styling might be bad"?

>
> CSS is a container model, but osis2mod unwinds the Book/Section/Paragraph
> structure of a OSIS input into marker elements. How would CSS be written to
> address this? Would it be written for the authored OSIS or the transformed
> OSIS?

Since CSS is a display technology and SWORD does not uses OSIS for
display, clearly this question does not even apply.

>
> SWORD has several renderers, HTML, RTF, plain text, How would CSS apply
> in the delivery context of RTF?

Can we stop even bringing up RTF? BibleCS's choice to use RTF means
that it will always be limited to the problems inherent in that
technology, just as every other front end has chosen HTML and is
limited by that.  This is one of the niche cases I referred to above.
"Well, BibleCS wouldn't be able to employ this SGML-based technology,
so let's just ignore it and keep pooh-pooh-ing it."

>
> For example, JSword transforms ThML, GBF, TEI and Plaintext into OSIS
> (augmented with SWORD's usage of TEI). Even OSIS and TEI undergo minor
> transformations. Then OSIS is converted into HTML. To what would the CSS
> apply?

To the HTML, of course. CSS can be applied directly to OSIS, but that
would require JSword to write a massive amount of CSS to give styling
to every OSIS element (just like it currently has an XSL file that
transforms every OSIS element). So long as the application is using
HTML, then the stylesheet would be applied directly to the HTML.

>
> The ability of a frontend to use CSS might be a problem. If I remember
> correctly, Xiphos was unable to use CSS. JSword/BD cannot at this time use
> an external stylesheet. Also JSword uses Java's built in HTML renderer and
> it is severely crippled and the HTML it requires is ancient.

Xiphos currently uses two different display technologies: gtkmozembed,
which is the Mozilla/Firefox/Gecko rendering engine. Where that is not
available (Windows) it uses gtkhtml. This makes the Windows build in
the same boat as JSword/BD at present. I am working with Karl, Terry
and Matthew to update to gtkwebkit for all platforms - both because
Mozilla is dropping support for embedding and because I want to see
proper support on Windows for Xiphos.

Of course, this line of argument is the same as digging up RTF.
"Because the widget I have does not understand this 14 year old,
fundamental web technology, clearly we should not support it."  BD is
limited by its choice of display technologies just like Xiphos is.
Xiphos has chosen to update its display technologies. BD would
probably benefit from opting to do so as well. Additionally, with the
CSS file on-disk, BD could simply insert the file directly into the
rendered output, removing the need for the stylesheet to be external.
I believe BPBible up until recently has used the wxHtml widget which
is also limited. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are
opting to update to a more functional widget. BibleCS, well.

>
> I think that if someone had the initiative to write generalized code that
> would apply CSS to an OSIS module, use it successfully in a front-end, and
> submit it for inclusion into SWORD that it might happen. There are a lot of
> us that are quite willing to discuss an idea, but there are very few that
> will actually implement. Those that do implement prioritize what is
> important to them.

I had support in BibleTime for this already in place when I brought it
up last time. All that was needed was an agreement on a conf-file
entry name by SWORD.  But the idea of using CSS was summarily rejected
by the list. Similarly, Jaak gave a "Not on my watch" response to
enabling the technology in BibleTime should SWORD reach an agreement
on it. After all, then BibleTime would not be able to maintain
absolute dominance over every pixel of display. Never mind that it
already does not maintain this by virtue of allowing ThML-sourced
documents to have CSS styling tags on them and allowing external CSS
could actually reduce the impact of this loss of control.

So I went to Xiphos and Karl was not impressed with the idea. Digging
further turned up the fact that gtkhtml has about as good support for
CSS as Java does. So I offered to help with the gtkwebkit move for a
multiplicity of reasons, one being that hopefully Karl will consider
adding support for external CSS files to Xiphos after the rendering
engine supports them.  But if SWORD simply shoots them down again, for
virtue of "That's very nice but MY rendering widget can't handle CSS"
like happened before...

Part of having a choice of front-ends is the fact that some are
limited by their choices in t

Re: [sword-devel] Rendering added words for languages that don't use italics?

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> Alternatively, the more semantic HTML markup of  might be useful?

There has been a move away from pushing  and  in the HTML
world, since it has been recognized that italics do not always
semantically mean "emphasis" and bold does not always semantically
mean "strong".  This situation is a perfect example.

>
> However I turn it though I do think this is/should/could be a rendering
> issue at the very last moment - i.e. at screen output time, probably
> steered by module or locale supplied CSS sheets. The alternative, if
> there is a serious issue - and I would only see this if the translators
> complain - then it might be something addressed by an additional output
> filter, but this would be hard work as it would require some work in the
> engine and potentially some more in the frontends.

Great idea. Only one problem - everyone who has authority and power
over such on these mailing lists thinks that module supplied CSS
sheets is an abomination. Even though translators already have
complained about the lack of the ability to create and use them.

>
>>
>> Has there been any previous discussion on this topic?
>
> I do not think so.

There has within the context of module-supplied rendering mechanisms.
"Not in my house" was the mostly unanimous reply.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] apostrophes in locales

[Greg Hellings]

The issue has been discussed at length in other threads in recent time,
leading to very vocal and differing opinions. I don't pretend to remember
the exact outcome for fear of remembering it incorrectly. But three issue
was not cut-and-dry.

--Greg
On Apr 15, 2011 1:29 PM, "David Haslam"  wrote:
> They'd better be, in the light of
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Miscellaneous_uses_in_other_languages
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Miscellaneous_uses_in_other_languages
>
> If not, then somone goofed.
>
> One example given in this page:
>
> # In the new Uzbek Latin alphabet adopted in 2000, the apostrophe serves
as
> a diacritical mark to distinguish different phonemes written with the same
> letter: it differentiates o' (corresponding to Cyrillic ў) from o, and g'
> (Cyrillic ғ) from g. This avoids the use of special characters, allowing
> Uzbek to be typed with ease in ordinary ASCII on any Latin keyboard. In
> addition, a postvocalic apostrophe in Uzbek represents the glottal stop
> phoneme derived from Arabic hamzah or ‘ayn, replacing Cyrillic ъ.
>
>
> David
>
> --
> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] KJV vs Russian Synodal versification comparison

[Greg Hellings]

Andy,

Not pretending this is a complete list, but at present BibleTime
supports all the versifications that SWORD understand. Xiphos
partially understands them and support is in the works, but at present
it only has full support for the KJV versification. The SWORD Project
for Windows (I believe) supports them, as does SWORDweb. BibleDesktop
only supports KJV. I have no knowledge of BPBible's support. GoBible,
I believe, only supports KJV as well.  Other mobile frontends: I am
not aware of their status.

--Greg

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Andy Harris  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I am working on preparing text for 2 Central Asian languages and as we test
> different applications we are trying to make sure that we cover as many
> areas of possible error as possible.
>
> I was wondering if as you, the app developers, have developed support for
> different versifications if you have a document or some info on what exactly
> is different between the KJV and Russian Synodal versification.
>
> Some kind of documented info on this would be of great help as at the moment
> we just have some pointers which some people have given us but not a
> complete list.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Using Perl script usfm2osos.pl in Windows?

[Greg Hellings]

If the cmd.exe environment does not expand GLOB expressions for you, I
suggest you upgrade to a fully-featured shell environment and file a
bug against it with Microsoft.  While you're waiting for them to
complete basic functionality in their shell environment, try Cygwin or
Linux or a BSD or Mac OS or Solaris or... well, you get the idea.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Daniel Owens  wrote:
> It is capable of handling multiple files. Typically Paratext has one file
> for each book of the Bible, so that is why it handles those files that way.
>
> I remember running into this problem in Windows, but I don't remember how I
> solved it. I think I switched my OS. :) I agree this utility should be more
> Windows-friendly. I just don't know how to do it.
>
> Daniel
>
> On 04/11/2011 08:21 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> I haven't used usfm2osis.pl, but are you sure it is capable of
>> handling multiple files at one time anywhere? Usually the file glob is
>> expanded by the shell (at least in the Unix world) so the program will
>> actually receive multiple distinct arguments expanded out to match
>> each file in the glob. I thought Windows operated the same way.
>> Perhaps usfm2osis.pl is designed to be executed in a loop? From bash
>> they are very easy to write:
>> for file in $(ls *.usfm); do usfm2osis.pl $file; done
>>
>> Additionally, if you operate in Windows and are actually doing
>> anything of consequence on the command line with Perl programs, you
>> should probably switch to using Cygwin or MSYS as they will behave
>> more reasonably than cmd.exe does. Cygwin will also have its own
>> version of Perl available for your use and should behave the same as
>> usfm2osis.pl.
>>
>> --Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:01 AM, David Haslam
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Can anyone help?
>>>
>>> CrossWire utilities written as Perl scripts such as usfm2osis.pl seem to
>>> be
>>> designed for Unix users only!
>>>
>>> This utility does not work when given with a wildcard to specify the USFM
>>> files.
>>>
>>> It does work, however, for each individual USFM file when each
>>> case-sensitive filename is specified exactly.
>>>
>>> I suspect that all such Perl scripts do not contain any code for
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob_%28programming%29 globbing  Windows
>>> filename wildcard patterns.
>>>
>>> I'm not a Perl programmer. What is needed is for someone who is both a
>>> Perl
>>> programmer and familiar with using Perl in the Windows environment to
>>> improve all such scripts such that they are no longer a stumbling block
>>> for
>>> users who prefer Windows.
>>>
>>> btw. I have ActivePerl installed in my PC.
>>>
>>> David Haslam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Using-Perl-script-usfm2osos-pl-in-Windows-tp3441764p3441764.html
>>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Using Perl script usfm2osos.pl in Windows?

[Greg Hellings]

David,

I haven't used usfm2osis.pl, but are you sure it is capable of
handling multiple files at one time anywhere? Usually the file glob is
expanded by the shell (at least in the Unix world) so the program will
actually receive multiple distinct arguments expanded out to match
each file in the glob. I thought Windows operated the same way.
Perhaps usfm2osis.pl is designed to be executed in a loop? From bash
they are very easy to write:
for file in $(ls *.usfm); do usfm2osis.pl $file; done

Additionally, if you operate in Windows and are actually doing
anything of consequence on the command line with Perl programs, you
should probably switch to using Cygwin or MSYS as they will behave
more reasonably than cmd.exe does. Cygwin will also have its own
version of Perl available for your use and should behave the same as
usfm2osis.pl.

--Greg

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:01 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
> Can anyone help?
>
> CrossWire utilities written as Perl scripts such as usfm2osis.pl seem to be
> designed for Unix users only!
>
> This utility does not work when given with a wildcard to specify the USFM
> files.
>
> It does work, however, for each individual USFM file when each
> case-sensitive filename is specified exactly.
>
> I suspect that all such Perl scripts do not contain any code for
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob_%28programming%29 globbing  Windows
> filename wildcard patterns.
>
> I'm not a Perl programmer. What is needed is for someone who is both a Perl
> programmer and familiar with using Perl in the Windows environment to
> improve all such scripts such that they are no longer a stumbling block for
> users who prefer Windows.
>
> btw. I have ActivePerl installed in my PC.
>
> David Haslam
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Using-Perl-script-usfm2osos-pl-in-Windows-tp3441764p3441764.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Calvin's commentaries

[Greg Hellings]

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:58 AM, DM Smith  wrote:
>
> We don't have that as a solution, but with a little effort, you could do it. 
> Basically, you'd export the file using
> mod2imp, then pare down the output to what you want and rebuild the module 
> with (iirc) imp2mod. Once the
> module is built, you'd have to zip it and load it onto your iPhone 
> PocketSword manually.

Or you could host it on a private web server and point Pocket Sword to
that server to install from there.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Front-end localization during installation?

[Greg Hellings]

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 2:55 PM, DM Smith  wrote:
> I believe that anything that uses the NSIS installer can do this. I think 
> this is the case for BibleCS and BibleDesktop. The trick is to only use the 
> NSIS provided, stock messages. Note: this only applies to installation on 
> Windows.
>
> BibleDesktop, by default, will use the user's locale in determining the 
> translation of the UI. If there is none, it will use English.
>
> I would think/hope that the other applications do something similar.

BibleTime uses an NSIS installer as well - or at least that is how it
was originally setup.  I don't know if internationalization of the
installer is used - Gary is the one who has been maintaining the BT
Windows build.

--Greg

>
> In HIm,
>         DM
>
> On Feb 19, 2011, at 1:54 PM, David Haslam wrote:
>
>>
>> A good topic for consideration is to lessen the reliance on knowing the
>> English language for those front-ends that already have support for changing
>> locale.
>>
>> I've come across several applications (unrelated to Bible software) in which
>> the installation process gives the user the opportunity to choose the
>> application language before the installation Finish dialog.
>>
>> Xiphos would be an obvious candidate for this, but other front-ends could do
>> likewise when the number of supported locales has reached "critical mass".
>>
>> Further to this, there could even be some provision made for ensuring the
>> user has a suitable font for the required language, and if not, then for the
>> installation dialog to include a step to fetch and install the font before
>> the Finish.
>>
>> To make all this even smoother, then each front-end website should be
>> translated into as many languages as the application supports.
>>
>> All this would require a lot of effort, yet we could at least make a start
>> by thinking how we could progress towards such an ideal.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Front-end-localization-during-installation-tp3314477p3314477.html
>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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[sword-devel] Portugese Bibles

[Greg Hellings]

Just had another user in #bibletime asking about Portugese
translations of the Bible.  I pointed him to the CrossWire repository
to download our copy of the Biblia Livre there.  He says that the
module only includes the New Testament and Psalms, but the Biblia
Livre website now (since Jan 28) includes Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song
of Songs (Canticles) and Isaiah.  It looks like they are also
releasing their module in a .ZIP archive of what they claim is a SWORD
module here: http://sites.google.com/site/biblialivre/arquivos

I don't know our copyright/distribution agreements with them if indeed
we have them, and I know nothing of Portugese to try and sift through
their website.  If someone could update our module with that one, it
would be appreciated.  Also, any word on further complete texts in
progress (I believe Peter is working on one when not busy with the
website updates) would be appreciated.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Per Project news: - was Re: CrossWire news

[Greg Hellings]

Sounds like you are manually constructing your SQL instead of using a
prepared statement with bound variables? That should take care of the
problem.

--Greg
On Feb 14, 2011 7:32 AM, "Ben Morgan"  wrote:
> Vary the following:
>
http://www.crosswire.org/pages/crossnewstest.jsp?project='&class=2&percat=3&maxRes=6
>
> org.firebirdsql.jdbc.FBSQLException: GDS Exception. 335544569. Dynamic SQL
> Error SQL error code = -104 Unexpected end of command - line 1, column 379
>
> Other than that (and a number of variations on it), it seems to work (i.e.
> for validly constructed URLs it works).
>
> God Bless,
> Ben
>
---
> Multitudes, multitudes,
> in the valley of decision!
> For the day of the LORD is near
> in the valley of decision.
>
> Giôên 3:14 (ESV)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
>
>> I have now in a test file added the code to have a project parametre.
>>
>> You can see it here in action:
>>
>>
>>
http://www.crosswire.org/pages/crossnewstest.jsp?project=8&class=2&percat=3&maxRes=6
>>
>> Please test it and if you manage to crash it, tell me what i did wrong.
The
>> underlying sql statement is pasted to the bottom of the page underneath.
>>
>> The idea is that you can combine news from your particular project and
news
>> from e.g the "module factory", which I guess is nice to advertise your
>> particular frontend and the modules you can display (which obviously
won't
>> work if your frontend has display or logic deficiencies)
>>
>> There are a few half or totally abandoned projects strewn across the site
>> and i will add it there to show how it would look for them. Others can
then
>> see if they want to make use of the facility.
>>
>> I will also in the next few days try and make the production of tailored
>> rss feeds similarly straight forward and then throw a bunch of such feeds
in
>> a well accessible place - particularly also for externally hosted
projects
>> this might be of use.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit
>> gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] CrossWire news

[Greg Hellings]

Peter,

I think it looks really good! Great work!

One thought about the layout, if you'll entertain it, is to maybe give
a little more padding between the columns and the edge of the page and
between each column.  Since they are not arranged in a grid, having
them as close as table cells feels a little cramped.  Definitely like
the layout and the function, for sure.

--Greg

On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
> On 13/02/11 22:59, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>> On 13/02/11 00:56, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>> I am showing 10 items on the page.
>>
>> Changed now to three classes of news items (core, modules and frontends)
>> each 5 items.
>
> http://www.crosswire.org/news.jsp
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

Just a follow-up.  This morning Karl added support for this to Xiphos'
SVN.  Support in the main HEAD of BibleTime is still awaiting Jaak's
laptop repairs so he can review my commit.

--Greg

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Greg Hellings  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
>> Ben Morgan  writes:
>>> When this last came up was when it was decided to put the Abbreviation field
>>> in the .conf files, but I don't know that
>>> a) it was done in any of the conf files
>>> b) any frontend authors added support for it
>>
>>> If a) happens, b) is likely to follow.
>>
>> [1010] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> pwd
>> /home/karl/.sword/InstallMgr
>> [1011] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> ls
>> ./               20090224125400/  20090811195706/  20100520154531/  
>> 20101001091014/
>> ../              20090514005700/  20090907073407/  20100728041232/  
>> InstallMgr.conf
>> 20081216195754/  20090514005900/  20100520154448/  20100901212041/  
>> masterRepoList.conf
>> [1012] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> grep Abbreviation */mods.d/*
>> 20081216195754/mods.d/fregbm.conf:Abbreviation=Martin-1744
>> 20081216195754/mods.d/frepilgrim.conf:Abbreviation=Pélerin
>> [1013] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr>
>>
>> (a) has not happened.
>
> (b) has now happened - in BibleTime.
>
> I pushed a branch to my gitorious clone of BibleTime that includes
> this functionality.  I must say, for the standard modules I like it
> better (my own modules need some cleaning up in this regard).  Feel
> free to grab it and try it out if you feel adventurous and brave
> enough to weather git.
>
> --Greg
>

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Re: [sword-devel] Word of God Bibles in a repo?

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Nic Carter  wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Just a quick question for you all . . .  There are a few SWORD modules 
> available from http://www.wordofgod.in that don't seem to be available via 
> our internal InstallManager.  I was wondering if anyone had tried to get them 
> into a repo, or as them if they are interested in setting up their own repo?  
> Given that we are able to report download statistics on the various modules 
> that people download from CrossWire, we could do that for them if required?
>
> Given how easy the core-API guys have made it to install modules within our 
> various front-ends, wouldn't it help their Bibles get more widely used if 
> they were easier to install?  :)
>
>
> Anyway, just a random thought.  I had a guy email me about making a Tamil 
> Bible available for use in PS, and while it's quite possible to manually 
> install a ZIP of a module, it would be much more preferable to allow users to 
> just tap on the Install button in the InstallManager...  ;)
>

If the modules are already in a repository, but the repo is just not
on our central list, you can easily add it to Pocket Sword.  The API
exposes a mechanism for that, as well.  Back in the dark ages, before
the centralized list, that's how we got all our entries other than
CrossWire into our install managers!

As for a ZIP, if it has the conf file and other necessary files, you
can readily open it up and install out of it.  I believe BPBible
allows drag-and-drop of module ZIP files?  Pretty sure one of our
front ends does.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Unusual markup in the Treasury of David

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:03 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> I have just added a new wiki page for  http://crosswire.org/wiki/Mod2osis
> mod2osis  so that there is more than a transitory description. Greg's post
> has been lightly edited to put in the current status section.
>
> Who knows: It might generate further interest and maybe even a programmer to
> pick up where Greg last left off?

I'd be happy to do the work, having already delved very deeply into
the code and identified the two remaining problems with exporting
Bible and Commentary modules.  The lack of interest has been shown by
those with commit rights to the file.  I have multiple times submitted
patches, pushed Bazaar branches, hosted patches on
www.crosswire.org/~ghellings/ and hosted patches on my own websites -
they usually either go ignored or at least uncommented.

Two outstanding problems are:
1) More recent (<2 years or so?) versions of osis2mod include open and
close tags for verses and chapters, etc.  Detection of this would
require parsing header information in the module.  I refuse to do that
level of text processing without regular expression support in
stl::string or SWBuf.  I have the export working properly with modules
made before and after the importer change, but I have to compile two
copies of the program until I get the regex support or someone else
writes the C-string processing.

2) Modules in OSIS, especially those in the repository, were often
imported with older versions of osis2mod.  This leads to them having
invalid OSIS constructs within verses - they need to be updated and
reimported.  For those modules older still, and which are not in OSIS
format, the *2OSIS renderers in the engine will need expanding.  This
is a much larger task, but if completed would allow exporting of any
of our Bible/Commentary modules into OSIS.

Again, without some indication that my work will be included in the
distribution of mod2osis, I have no desire to put more time into
incorporating regex support in SWBuf, solving issue (1) or tackling
issue (2).  If you think this info should be up on the wiki page, feel
free to put it there and point people to
https://code.launchpad.net/~greg-hellings/sword/mod2osis which is
where I keep the publicly visible versions of the work.  I don't know
if that has my latest pushes, but it is much more robust and
up-to-date than the versions included in the library.

--Greg

>
> David
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Unusual-markup-in-the-Treasury-of-David-tp3242044p3243056.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Unusual markup in the Treasury of David

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
>
>> Von: Jonathan Morgan 
>>   Is
>> this formatting what was intended, or is it just one of those things?
>
> I think this is a) an ancient module and b) a clear demonstration what 
> happens when modules go in to the repos without validity check.
>
> Which brings me to a question - how do people do validity checks on IMP 
> format modules?

Well, so long as there are lines with $$$KeyValue followed by lines of
content, the IMP format is satisfied.  Officially anything can be
squished into the values of the content.  The modules I produce
usually have ThML so I can control the display of the module and not
leave it to chance or default HTML rendering rules for SWORD's
OSIS->HTML transformation (but that goes back to the long, drawn-out
discussion about external CSS, etc which I won't rehash).  You could
also have plaintext, OSIS fragments or nearly anything else.  Thus,
there really isn't a way to check the validity of an IMP document
beyond looking for the $$$KEY lines.

>
> imp2gbs -> mod2osis -> validity check?

This will fail miserably as a) mod2osis only purports to work on
verse-keyed modules and b) it does not even work on verse-keyed
modules.  The near complete lack of interest in mod2osis and refusal
to support a basic regex extraction and search/replace in either the
C++ stl::string or sword::SWBuf means I have no desire to finish the
last few pieces of getting mod2osis working.  Anyone else is welcome
to tackle the remainder of the work by finding my branch on Launchpad.

>
> That is a bit round about and I have not done it on recent gen book modules, 
> but simply tried checking by eye ball (but the texts were short).
>
> I think a simple imp2osis would be a useful addition. Maybe I write one, 
> unless there is something I am missing.
>

Probably near trivial for Bibles, commentaries or lexica.  I believe
you're a Perl guy, so just iterating the lines of input, if the regex
/^\$\$\$(.+)$/ matches the line, then $1 is the new key value,
otherwise append the value of the current line to the currently open
item.  When you reach the next line that matches the regex, write out
an OSIS container with an osisID equal to $1 from the previous
matching line. Supporting the arbitrary deep nesting of text in a
general book would make it a bit more than trivial, but not by any
means difficult.  All of the forgoing provided, of course, the blurbs
of content in the imp file are either plaintext or valid OSIS
fragments, of course.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
> Ben Morgan  writes:
>> When this last came up was when it was decided to put the Abbreviation field
>> in the .conf files, but I don't know that
>> a) it was done in any of the conf files
>> b) any frontend authors added support for it
>
>> If a) happens, b) is likely to follow.
>
> [1010] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> pwd
> /home/karl/.sword/InstallMgr
> [1011] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> ls
> ./               20090224125400/  20090811195706/  20100520154531/  
> 20101001091014/
> ../              20090514005700/  20090907073407/  20100728041232/  
> InstallMgr.conf
> 20081216195754/  20090514005900/  20100520154448/  20100901212041/  
> masterRepoList.conf
> [1012] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr> grep Abbreviation */mods.d/*
> 20081216195754/mods.d/fregbm.conf:Abbreviation=Martin-1744
> 20081216195754/mods.d/frepilgrim.conf:Abbreviation=Pélerin
> [1013] [12:00 AM] awol:InstallMgr>
>
> (a) has not happened.

(b) has now happened - in BibleTime.

I pushed a branch to my gitorious clone of BibleTime that includes
this functionality.  I must say, for the standard modules I like it
better (my own modules need some cleaning up in this regard).  Feel
free to grab it and try it out if you feel adventurous and brave
enough to weather git.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Jonathan Morgan  wrote:
> Whether or not you have a German localised name (which was I think discussed
> and could be supported with Abbreviation_de, but opens another can of
> worms), even "Luther 1545" is a marked improvement over "GerLut1545".

I don't see any reason the Abbreviation field shouldn't just already
be localized to the region or native text of the module, as per the
module creator's choice.  So for the Septuagint it might be "LXX" and
for "AraSVD" it might be an Arabic text.  I don't need an English
localization of the Arabic if the text is in Arabic, whereas LXX is so
well known for this context, I doubt it needs much localization.
Forgive me if that's a bad example and LXX is really something
entirely different everywhere, but I think one Abbreviation should be
fine and leave it to the module creator to provide the proper value
for universal usage.  Extra names or localizations can easily be
placed into the About entry.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ben Morgan  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Greg Hellings 
> wrote:
>>
>> Since we have an abbreviation field already designated for the conf,
>> perhaps we should make it required?  Or perhaps applications could
>> use, first, the Abbreviation field if present and only fall back to
>> the module name if an Abbreviation is lacking? That way the module
>> creator of GerThis or GerThat could display THIS instead of GerThis if
>> they wanted in well-behaved applications?
>>
>> Otherwise, what is the purpose of the Abbreviation field?
>
> It's probably best not to make it required (most existing modules won't have
> it), but trying using the Abbreviation first then the Name as a replacement
> if necessary was the use case it was specifically put in for.
>
> When this last came up was when it was decided to put the Abbreviation field
> in the .conf files, but I don't know that
> a) it was done in any of the conf files
> b) any frontend authors added support for it
>
> If a) happens, b) is likely to follow.

If it musters approval with the BT crowd, I'm going to start with (b)
and then see if (a) ever comes along.  Sounds like Peter would
appreciate if Xiphos were to also have this - maybe he's willing to
provide appropriate German language abbreviations to the conf files to
include the Abbreviation for those modules that he said annoy him?

It seems unlikely that the modules I'm working on will be released
(Copyright issues), so that's why I plan to do the work in BibleTime
to support this suggestion, if the rest of the team likes it.  I know
we have a number of foreign language developers, so they might be
bothered by the same thing that annoys Peter as well and might
contribute Abbreviations as well, if BibleTime were to support it
already and they used modules which annoyed them.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
>
>> I think putting abbreviation first always is nice because it is easier
>> to scan for (i.e. ESV is much more recognizable than English Standard
>> Version).  Putting the Abbreviation on the front makes it possible to
>> scan through a list for it, whereas if the description was first and the
>> abbreviation at the end it would be much more difficult.
>
> A lot of this comes back to some of the threads in the past on localised
> display of book names etc.
>
> If I use e.g. Xiphos in German it is a bit irritating that all kind of
> German Bibles are called GerThis or GerThat, particularly if there are
> valid (but possibly conflicting with those in other languages)
> abbreviations.

I think this is important - in fact, more important than the other
considerations and opinions of us here.  Order is a matter of personal
preference (if we really wanted to embrace the style of Linux-like
apps, we would probably supply a dialog to users where they could use
some shortened templating code to create a custom module display
name).  Displaying the correct name and abbreviation that users would
expect to see in their native language is not a matter of opinion...
in my opinion. :)

Since we have an abbreviation field already designated for the conf,
perhaps we should make it required?  Or perhaps applications could
use, first, the Abbreviation field if present and only fall back to
the module name if an Abbreviation is lacking? That way the module
creator of GerThis or GerThat could display THIS instead of GerThis if
they wanted in well-behaved applications?

Otherwise, what is the purpose of the Abbreviation field?

>
> Therefore I think we should really move away from using the internal
> identifier as a user visible tag.

Agreed.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
> Actually, there's a module with an even longer Description.  "Practice" has:
>
> The Practice of the Presence of God: The Best Rule of Holy Life by Brother 
> Lawrence (Nicholas Herman, 1605-1691)
>
> Gosh, that's annoyingly long.

Maybe, but hardly out of the ordinary for older titles.

>
> Greg Hellings  writes:
>> One of my modules is [CONNOT] which is a decent abbreviation
>> and it fits in the limits of SWORD.  Currently I have the About field
>> set to"Consultant Notes" and the About field set to "Consultant
>> Notes for Translators.".
>
> About and About?  I think you meant Description and About.

Correct!

>
> Contents of About aren't supposed to contain HTML, notwithstanding that
> it happens to work.  That content is formally RTF.  You'll see a lot of
> \par and so forth in *.conf About fields.

Well, when your target is limited to only two front-ends, you can cut
corners.  Also, when the modules are started by someone with a strict
repulsion for RTF, this is what you get.  I don't think we actually
have any content in our About fields that needs markup of any kind, so
I'll probably just remove it before we go to production.

>
>> Perhaps you can shed some light on why you use the
>> value of the name instead of the Description in your widget?
>
> Because that's the way it's been since The Dawn Of Net.Time, which was
> way back when Terry first did it. :-D
>
> Seriously, no one's ever asked about it before.
>
> It could certainly be reasonable to update module selection widgets to
> use Description instead of the [BracketedName]; but I wonder about
> possible confusion because [BracketedName] is guaranteed to be unique
> but Description is not, and considering the selection of Description
> used at e.g. bible.org...
>
>   Free version of NET Bible Footnotes with limited notes
>   Free version of New English Translation with limited notes
>   NET Bible Footnotes presented in the form of a commentary.
>   New English Translation text only with footnote markers
>   New English Translation with over 60,000 translator, study and text 
> critical notes
>
> ...with so much similarity from one to another, I worry that the user
> won't get the connection, and especially that he won't grasp the
> difference when tabs have [BracketedNames] (for minimal length purposes)
> that would then be seen pretty much nowhere else.  Also, at the moment,
> I've got DM's (old) beta "NASB" and Troy's (new) beta "NASBnew"...
>
>   New American Standard Bible
>   New American Standard Bible (NEW)
>
> ...whose minor change is almost unnoticeable and could lose the "(NEW)"
> the next time Troy puts out an update.
>
> I'm open to opinion about the problem, of course.

I crafted my response to Ben's email a few minutes ago with these
preceding few paragraphs in mind working with the not-unique issue and
my own preference for how I would have done it back in the Land Before
Time.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ben Morgan  wrote:
> What I've used in BPBible in a few places is Name - Description (i.e. ESV -
> English Standard Version). The abbreviation at the start (hopefully) means
> that if the rest is cut of it shouldn't matter too much.

I think this is a good pattern, though I might have switched their
order myself, or only given the abbreviation if the two Descriptions
are identical.  I was thinking of a precedence like:
1) Description, if present
1.1) If Description is not unique, combine with one of the below
2) Abbreviation, otherwise
3) Name, otherwise

I know that Description is listed as a "Required" element, but if it
were absent, having fallbacks is a good idea.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
> Greg Hellings  writes:
>> Description is overkill and probably not fit for display in a module
>> selection widget - a description for the module would go something
>> like:
>> "Dr. Doe's classic commentary on the book of Galatians from 1977.
>> Widely praised for its scholarliness and ecumenical appeal, Dr. Doe's
>> classic continues to have 21st century appeal..."
>
> That's not what Description is for.  That's what About is for.

Ah, I guess I assumed Description to be longer than single phrase.
Strange, I should have realized the delinieation because I just
encoded both of those fields into a database schema yesterday and
differentiated between Description as a VARCHAR(128) field and About
as a Text/CLOB field.

>
> There are a couple of modules whose Description is overkill, like
> bible.org's native NET, whose description is:
>
> "New English Translation with over 60,000 translator, study and text critical 
> notes"
>
> Currently, the worst offender for length is HunUj:
>
> "The New Translation Bible of the Hungarian Bible Society (Magyar 
> Bibliatarsulat Ujforditasu Bibliaja)"
>
> Anyhow, Description is supposed to be for a short descriptive phrase,
> not a whole commentary on the nature of the work.  Again, that's About.
>
> But nonetheless these Description fields' contents are used routinely in
> selection widgets.  In Xiphos, do a context menu File -> Open Module.
> What you see is Description content.
>
> Is this too much?

In my opinion, with the extremely stringent limitations on the value
of the (valid) name of a work, that is too hidden for my personal
tastes.  One of my modules is [CONNOT] which is a decent abbreviation
and it fits in the limits of SWORD.  Currently I have the About field
set to"Consultant Notes" and the About field set to "Consultant
Notes for Translators.".  The wiki Defines Description as:

This is a short (1 line) title of the module.

In my mind, that makes it preferable to display the Description in the
selection widget over "CONNOT" which is the module's "name".  At
present Xiphos displays "CONNOT" in the module selection widget,
"Consultant Notes" at the top of the About dialog and "Consultant
Notes for Translators" in the body of that dialog.  BibleTime does not
display the Description field anywhere that I can see but otherwise
agrees with Xiphos' pattern of CONNOT in the widget and "Consultant
Notes for Translators" in the about dialog.

When I think of my "Bookshelf" as BibleTime calls it or "Modules" as
Xiphos says, I think of my physical bookshelf where I want to see the
titles of the work and not just their abbreviations or internal
representations.  This is represented in "Description" (answering my
own initial question of if we have a field already to define it - even
if it confused me when I was thinking along the lines of Title) within
the .conf file.  Perhaps you can shed some light on why you use the
value of the name instead of the Description in your widget?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Ben Morgan  wrote:
> There is the Description field for long names and Abbreviation for an
> abbreviated form (an alternative to using the module name in theory). Not
> sure what frontends if any support Abbreviation though.

Description is overkill and probably not fit for display in a module
selection widget - a description for the module would go something
like:
"Dr. Doe's classic commentary on the book of Galatians from 1977.
Widely praised for its scholarliness and ecumenical appeal, Dr. Doe's
classic continues to have 21st century appeal..."
BibleTime will display this if I ask for it, but I don't want to force
my module users to right click on the name, or hover over it, every
time the need to distinguish module SL_CM_GAL_NIG from SL_CM_GAL_BG or
whatever.

And abbreviation is exactly the opposite (and redundant) of what I'm
looking for.  SL_CM_GAL_NIG is already the abbreviation, the name of
the .conf file and should be the value inside of [Name] according to
the specification.  I need a field where I can put "The Epistle to the
Galatians" and have it display to the user (maybe along with the
author's name to differentiate between two identically named books),
but still be a valid conf file.

--Greg

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[sword-devel] Module Display Names

[Greg Hellings]

This is just a query/brain dump as an exposition on an issue which I
believe came up on bt-devel (maybe it was here).

The "title" of a work, as displayed by both Xiphos and BibleTime
(still the only two SWORD applications I've used, so forgive me if I
have left out others in my brain dump as I don't know their behaviors)
in their list of works for download or open, is the title, verbatim,
as it appears within the brackets on the first line of a module's
.conf file.  As we know from the other thread, this title is very
limited.  To quote the wiki page on conf files, "It can only contain
A-Z, a-z, 0-9 and _."

Now this is a very strict limitation and, to me, rather limits the
usefulness of the title to internal representations within an
application or engine.  For some modules, there is a natural choice
for this field which is relatively unambiguous: ESV, KJV, YLT, NASB,
Webster.  For others, there might be a slightly more abiguous choice:
does "Luther" mean his commentaries, his collected works or his
German-language translation?

But for my own situation, there are possibly some very ambiguous
titles that I am stuck with.  For instance, I have a few different
works which are commentaries on the same book.  The titles might all
be "The Book of John" and just be by different authors.  In the
current status I am somewhat stuck with calling them things like
"The_Book_of_John_AuthorA" and "The_Book_of_John_AuthorB".  As I said
above, these represent great internal/developer names for these two
works, but they aren't so user friendly.  Is there a better recourse
for me, where I can specify a different conf value?  Something along
the lines of
[INTERNAL_NAME]
DisplayName=Not so restrictive on characterset

This would greatly help me, as we have both names already in place for
the modules I'm working with so we can have manageable conf files
names.  Of course, then I'm violating the [NAME] = name.conf directive
of the conf files.  A real example from the set is
SL_CM_GAL_NIG.conf:
[The Epistle to the Galatians]
Well, I sure don't want the user to need to figure out what
"SL_CM_GAL_NIG" stands for, but according to the official standards
"The Epistle to the Galatians" is not a valid conf file name.  But
currently "The Epistle to the Galatians" is what both BibleTime and
Xiphos display, despite the "invalidity" of the conf file.

Is there a conf file entry akin to "DisplayName" that we already have
and I'm just missing it? Or can we get one, even if it is optional and
defaults to the value of [XYZ] in its absence?

Anyway, that is my brain dump for the afternoon.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Chromium OS and CrossWire?

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Chris Burrell  wrote:
> Interesting question. The online version of STEP will function on Chromium
> OS since it's a web app based. The server side is based on JSword, so if
> they one day bring in Java we're alright - if not, then we might eventually
> move some functionality to use HTML5 but given a lot of the world doesn't
> yet support HTML5 without a browser upgrade that might be a little way off.

I haven't read much about Chromium OS for the past 6 or 8 weeks, but I
thought it shipped with Chrome/Chromium as its browser, no?  At least,
that's the assumption I had been running on.

While I haven't thought about Chromium OS itself from this perspective
(I'm unlikely to use it as anything more than a "Hey, let me just see
how it works for a day" activity) I have been growing a
pure-JavaScript Bible plugin for the Chrome browser.  First step is
teaching it to fetch a Bible - this part is about 80% grown.  Second
is storage, display and retrieval of a Bible - this part is well
planned based on some past work by members of the BibleTime team and
the data structures (SQL, most likely, though IndexedDB might win out
for the portability) are in place, only awaiting the functionality.
Obviously branching out from there to additional support for more
types of works, bigger UIs and the like will all come as time
dictates.  I have been doing this because Chrome is one of about 5
programs I regularly use on my computer and it would just be so much
easier to access the Bible and searching it from the Omnibox than
trying to remember I have a whole application installed for that
purpose.

How any of that ties in to Chromium OS, people who know more about the
OS will have to tell me.

As a side note - if I thought I knew a lot about Chrome and JavaScript
before, trying to develop a full-fledged app in it has taught me more
than I probably ever wanted to know!

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Chris Little  wrote:
> This is an excellent idea, but I worry about BibTeX being the wrong format
> to encourage academic use. I love LaTeX, personally. I just spent a day
> putting together a reader for my class in LaTeX. But I'm probably in a
> minority here, and outside of math & sciences, I believe almost no one uses
> LaTeX. It is a fairly old format, so there are lots of importers for other
> software like EndNote.

I hear the limited use of LaTeX is pretty much relegated to graduate
school and students.  That is, of course, anecdotal information.

>
> I think keeping BibTeX would be great, but I'd like to encourage us to also
> adopt CSL (http://citationstyles.org/), which is used by a few different
> programs, including Zotero.
>
> I'd also recommend we figure out a way to do everything via scripts and
> auto-generate BibTeX and CSL entries with a nightly cron job. We can fill
> out additional .conf entries, as necessary, to make the automation easier.

Rather than forcing the library to maintain memory of multiple
formats, maybe a very simple template system?  Then the user can
specify the output into an arbitrary format and run it through a
single method call in the library to output any format they desire.
Samples could be maintained with BibTeX, CSL or whatever else people
wish to supply?

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

[Greg Hellings]

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Trevor Jenkins
 wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
>
>>
>> > Von: Peter von Kaehne 
>>
>> > I therefore consider you a user and not a particularly friendly one.
>>
>> s/user/bystander/
>>
>> One should never send serious emails at 2 am.
>
> I may be critical and argumentative (and so what if I am) but at least I
> don't resort to ad hominem argumentation.

Peter's was not an ad hominem argument, but rather a proposal that the
list ignore someone with a distinct history of trolling.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Trevor Jenkins
 wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011, Greg Hellings  wrote:
>
>> > While I'd have no quibble with bibliographic data being recorded in .conf
>> > files it should be there in a neutral form and specific functions written
>> > to produce it in the users required/requested format.
>>
>> Alternatively every desired format could be stored in the .conf file.
>
> No no no. That way leaves to inconsistencies and corruption. Apply 3NF and
> 4NF normalisation to this data. If the bibliographic data is to be there
> put it there only once and then have some API layer to extract and present
> it in what ever format the user needs.

Did you read the rest of my email or did you stop to throw fire on one
of a list of alternatives I gave?

3NF, BCNF and 4NF are all fine and good when you're drawing out a
database schema on a piece of paper.  In actual practice they often
lead to massively more computation and upkeep than simply
denormalizing the data.  In this case, BibTeX is basically the same as
what you are prescribing - each of the pieces of data split out into
its own, separate field. It is already a standardized, well built tool
to handle all of the intricacies and details of creating the type of
information the user has requested.  It is open and has a large array
of tools which can process it into many different types of output
format.

So which is it - do you want this data to be Normal Formed into the
ground and then SWORD needs to know how to support the citation format
du jour plus all the legacies?  Or shall we produce something that the
end user, with a specific and pointed problem, can use?  I sure don't
want to keep track of processing some arbitrary number of formats.  We
have a person who has asked for BibTeX support - is there any reason
for not supporting BibTeX other than, "Well I don't use it?"

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Bibtex for modules

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Trevor Jenkins
 wrote:
> But I still am confused about what it is that consistutes the source. The
> module? The module content and therefore the original publisher (and
> possible copyright holder)?

If someone is quoting out of the SWORD module, then clearly the module
is the source.  Perhaps the module differs from the other published
versions - in which case it is important for the citation to reference
the module, so that someone checking the reference can ascertain that
the quoter was not being intentionally misleading nor misquoting.

>
>> This came home to me when I was preparing a paper for my
>> application to the PhD program I am now in, and I had to find the
>> bibliographic information for Aquinas' Summa. ...
>
> Which makes me think it is the content you're after. That it occurs in an
> Sword module is irrelevant and therefore the original suggestion is
> speciious.

The fact that it occurs in a SWORD module is the entire point.  If I
garner a quote from my printed version of the Communist Manifesto but
that is different from the print copy my reader has - it is important
for my reader to know the publisher and printing of my copy so that
s/he can compare.  Then, if the versions differ, there is reason to
research why that is.  If the two are identical but I have misquoted,
then I need the correction.

The suggestion is neither irrelevant nor specious.  Citation of a
digital work, especially one which lacks pagination, is an extra layer
of complication on an already difficult subject of source attribution.
 People will, do and have cited SWORD modules.  It is important for
them to cite it properly so that a different person can check their
work.  Bibtex has been the only suggestion I have heard for a format
prior to now.  It certainly could also be possible to support
additional formats if someone is willing to either provide the entry
or provide code to generate the entry.

> Now if the source atribution is recorded in the .conf file fine, but for
> those of us who want it in some other format such as Zotero's Open
> Citation Style, refer, MedLine, or even RFC 1807 formats insisting it is
> held in BibTeX (sadly a minority format these days) is unusable.

Which leaves those of you using non-Bibtex no different than you are
now, but those using Bibtex better off then they are now.  It is not a
0-sum situation.

>> ... It took a bit of effort, but BibTeX data would have saved me the
>> time and headache. It is yet another enticement to users to start using
>> SWORD.
>
> While I'd have no quibble with bibliographic data being recorded in .conf
> files it should be there in a neutral form and specific functions written
> to produce it in the users required/requested format.

Alternatively every desired format could be stored in the .conf file.
There are many possibilities.  Even a plaintext entry in the .conf
file, which users of one of these systems could then process into
their desired markup so that it is output according to their rules.  A
sample Chicago/Turabian formatted citation in the work or something
with similarly standard rules go a long way beyond where we currently
are.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] BibleTech:2011 is in Seattle, March 25/26

[Greg Hellings]

I am contemplating attending.  Depends on how life and finances shake
out in the next few weeks and months.

--Greg

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:53 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Is anyone from CrossWire attending and/or speaking at
> http://www.bibletechconference.com/ BibleTech:2011  ?
>
> Submissions for titles and abstracts closed November 30, 2010.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [sword-devel] Remote Repositories

[Greg Hellings]

According to Troy it could function as a simple hello message, or it could
function as a news list. That is why I suggest RSS as fulfilling both
needs.  If you want to limit it to a single plain blob, by all means, make
it just a plaintext, rtf or html file that is staticly fetched and
displayed.

--Greg
On Dec 29, 2010 12:17 AM, "Jonathan Morgan"  wrote:
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Re: [sword-devel] Remote Repositories

[Greg Hellings]

That was clear - and RSS still fits the bill perfectly. A static file with
one entry, or a dynamic list 100 entries long, and it cab be left to the app
whether to display one entry, up to five, or all of them.

The format is already defined, well known, easily processed, easily
generated, very versatile and completely fills your need.

We are not talking about the need for the engine or app to hold all the
extra seen/unseen information and polling that generic RSS readers maintain.
Simply parse a well defined format retrieved from the server and display it
to the user.

--Greg
On Dec 29, 2010 12:05 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts"  wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I might not have done a good job explaining the purpose of this field.
> My intention is to provide the publisher with a way to communicate basic
> information to users who view their repository from any of our
> applications. This may be news, it may be a promotion, it may just be a
> "Thanks for visiting our repository" blurb. Just some way the publisher
> can communicate information to anyone who might be interested in a
> publisher's repository.
>
> Hope this clears things up.
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 12/28/2010 10:50 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>> Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.
>>
>> RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power
>> (I don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in
>> RSS). Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already
>> outside of Sword.
>>
>> --Greg
>>
>> On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan" > <mailto:jonmmor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Greg,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings
>> mailto:greg.helli...@gmail.com>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>>>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already
>> around.
>>>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
>>> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one
chunk
>>> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at
least
>>> it's relatively simple to do.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Remote Repositories

[Greg Hellings]

Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.

RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power (I
don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in RSS).
Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already outside of
Sword.

--Greg
On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan"  wrote:
> Greg,
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>
>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already
around.
>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>
>
> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one chunk
> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least
> it's relatively simple to do.
>
> Jon
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Re: [sword-devel] Remote Repositories

[Greg Hellings]

Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are already
perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already around. See RSS,
Atom and related technologies.

--Greg
On Dec 28, 2010 11:25 PM, "Troy A. Griffitts"  wrote:
> Thanks for the input Jonathan,
>
> On 12/28/2010 09:57 PM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:
>> mailto:scr...@crosswire.org>> wrote:
>> UnlockURL=
>
>> This makes sense. If it were standardised we might put it in for
>> BPBible 0.5, but I wouldn't guarantee it at this stage.
>
> Thanks!
>
>> Is this something that could get out of date? A publisher changes their
>> URL schema and suddenly that link no longer works?
>
> Well, this will probably be used at install time, so hopefully the user
> is attempting to remote install the latest version of the module from
> the publisher's own remote repository which should have an up-to-date
> URL... but of course, I wouldn't put it past someone to forget to update
> the entry in the .conf file.
>
>
>> 2) Current Events: I'd like to have a:
>>
>> NEWS.txt
>>
>
> Well, a general comment which might have bearing on your thoughts below.
> This item was spawned by a publisher stating that they would like to
> "have a chance to interact with" users downloading modules from the
> publisher's repository.
>
> This was my first thought to give them a basic mechanism to do such. I
> called it "NEWS.txt" incidentally, as my best guess at what they'd like
> to say when they 'interacted' with users. I could be off on my
> assumptions, and obviously the repository maintainer could put whatever
> they wanted in there-- not just news. Maybe, as you say, simply a
> repository description, or "Visit us at: http://..."; or whatever.
>
> Formatting is another issue you bring up which, if we decide to do this,
> we certainly do need to resolve. I'm not inclined to open up the issue
> of moving .conf entries from basicRTF+ markup right now, so
> it would probably stay in line with this lame legacy markup for now.
> Just as a summary to this topic, I understand we probably need to
> advance to some HTML markup for the .conf About section, but it requires
> an orchestrated switch, and frankly, I'm ok with having a very limited
> set of tags (I think we support italic, bold, center, paragraph break,
> and ) in our About section. It makes it easy for a variety
> of display methods on a variety of devices. And it really should just
> simply be an "About".
>
> Any more thoughts?
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>> Several thoughts on this:
>> 1. Is this the most appropriate place to display it?
>> 2. Will it be kept up to date? (I get frustrated by websites, etc. that
>> have news older than a year or two old, and are either no longer doing
>> anything or have given up telling me new things).
>> 3. Is it duplicating information shown elsewhere? Does it mean just
>> another thing for publishers to remember to keep up to date?
>> 4. What degree of formatting will be needed/wanted in this news?
>>
>> I would be inclined to suggest the following instead:
>> 1. Module repositories have some kind of a description or about
>> section. This states the purpose of repository, etc., and is hopefully
>> much less likely to change or be out of date.
>> 2. Module repositories can have a URL to the main site for that module
>> repository. This could be the main page of the publisher or a special
>> page for the SWORD repository or whatever else the publisher chooses.
>> If they want to have news I would probably expect it more to be on a
>> feed on a webpage somewhere than in InstallMgr. This also means those
>> who come across it who are not using SWORD get the same information, and
>> there are no compromises to force-fit the news to what frontends will
>> support.
>>
>> You could support something like this with a fairly standard conf file
>> at the base of the repository. Maybe other fields could be included as
>> well (such as a display name for the repository), but it seems to me a
>> bit arbitrary to have news and nothing else, and I'm not sure that I
>> follow the reasoning.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
>> friends, and love.
>>
>>
>> Troy
>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Parsing Devanagari digits in Cross References

[Greg Hellings]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:03 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> One of my contacts mentioned something in an email today.
>
> "I used the USFM to OSIS python program from Snowfall with quite a bit of
> changes to make it work with  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari
> Devanagari  numbers in the crossreference processor.
> So now I can take both of the Nepali Bibles from USFM to OSIS and then to a
> Sword module in one step.
> I wish my additional code was in good enough shape to share but I’m mostly a
> hacker."
>
> I report this just in case the maintainers of usfm2osis.pl might wish to
> address this and similar situations.

Peter created a parallel script called xreffix.pl which sits alongside
usfm2osis.pl and is intended to be run on the output of usfm2osis.pl.
Using it requires the SWORD Perl bindings be installed and a locale
that understands the source language.  It should understand anything
that SWORD and the locale understand - if that includes Devanagari
digits.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] WBTI/BL modules in CrossWire Beta

[Greg Hellings]

Beta more or less is our "separate repository."  In reality our end
users shouldn't be in Beta.  In the past modules have been known to
get stuck in Beta for uncertain reasons.  I'd take a guess the reasons
involve some mixture of the following:
1) Very few people knowing exactly why a module was Beta - was it new?
Was a bug fixed? Were new features added?  Therefore there was little
direction for the testers to take.
2) Most of our list, who are largely either developers or module
creators to begin with, got in the habit of using the
Beta repository while waiting, so we were not very vocal about goading
people to release updated versions.  And since we are most of the
voices here and the voices of users tended not to know about the Beta,
there was little incentive to move forward.
3) Often modules come in large dumps, like you're mentioning, and
frankly I don't have the time or talents to learn 43 languages AND
read through the Bible 43 times to test.  And if we don't know anyone
who does know that language, what are we to do while waiting for a
"Hey, I read through that and it seemed well put together, let's
publish it."
4) For a long time only Chris Little had rights to move from one
repository to the other.  This might still be the case.  If so, only
one person to process 109 modules, plus be responsible for creating
them from source materials and probably fix the reported bugs is a
massive undertaking.  However, due to the exceedingly high standards
for modules in CrossWire's repositories, very few other people would
have Chris' attention to detail.

If I go much farther I probably will end up getting into the numerous
objections where some people prefer the "release early, release often"
method and others prefer the "wait until it's perfect" method.  CW
repos tend to wait longer until release while Karl tends to do the
quick iteration approach.  As a result, using "Beta" became mainstream
as a user would report "My module is broken in such-and-such a
passage" and they would be told to try the version in Beta and they
would say "All better, thanks."  Thus a bad habit of pointing users to
testing material led to "Beta" becoming used in production - observe
the KJV 2.4 in Beta which nearly everyone ueses while 2.3 continues on
in the "released" stream complete with all of its quirks and invalid
OSIS from the old importer.

--Greg
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:16 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> The 43  http://crosswire.org/wiki/WBTI_Bible_discussion modules  we were
> given a long time ago do rather swamp the module manager when
> http://crosswire.org/wiki/Modules_in_the_beta_repository CrossWire Beta  is
> selected.
>
> This makes it hard to see the wood for the trees. Ploughing past all those
> unusual language names is quite a chore.
>
> 43  / 109 is almost 40% of the beta repo.
>
> I suspect that few users would wish to install any of these, unless they
> happen to be involved in ministry in Central America or the Caribbean
> region. Thus they have a highly specialized focus.
>
> Would it not be a good idea to have these in a separate repository?
>
> What do others think?
>
> David
> --
> View this message in context: 
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> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[sword-devel] CMake Sample Scripts

[Greg Hellings]

All,

For those who would like to try out the CMake build system, but you
don't want to learn a new way to invoke the SWORD build process, I
have added a pair of sample scripts to the cmake/ directory.  Both of
the samples will build the shared (.so) library, Perl and Python
bindings, examples/cmdline and tests.  One will build the debug
version of the library prepped for installation to /usr/local and the
other will build a release version of the library for installation to
/opt/sword.

To invoke the build, you can just camp in the top directory of the
SWORD library and issue the call "$ cmake/build-debug.sh" or "$
cmake/build-release.sh".  Both scripts will create a build/ directory,
change into it, call CMake, call make with 5 parallel builds, change
into the Perl directory, call make there, and then change into the
python directory and call the build process there.  It will then be up
to the user to manually invoke the 'make install' in the build
directory.  I'm not particularly claiming this is the way you should
invoke the CMake system, but more intending the scripts as a sample
way of showing people how CMake is invoked and how to use some of its
options.

Also, have no fear if you prefer the autotools version of the library
but you just want to take a look at CMake.  CMake forces the build to
be outside of the current source directory, so that none of its files
come into collision with an autotools build of the library.  In the
example of the cmake/build-*.sh scripts, all the products of the CMake
process are contained in the build/ directory, so if you mess
something up you can just "$ rm -rf build/" and everything is back to
the way it was before.

--Greg

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Re: [sword-devel] Google eBooks

[Greg Hellings]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Chris Little  wrote:
> On 12/6/2010 9:34 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> As far as selection of non-PD material goes, I'm not terribly impressed.
> Amazon, Apple, & Google each have different sets books available, but I
> believe Amazon still leads overall. Completely unscientifically: Of the four
> books being used for the class I'm teaching in spring, three are available
> in each of the stores, but Amazon has one set of three and Apple & Google
> share a different set of three.

One of the nice things that Apple has not (yet) done is block the
Amazon Kindle app from its store.  So a user of an iPad or iPhone can
access their Amazon Kindle collection from their iDevice.  They also
have an application for Android users to do the same.

I don't know if Google has an application like that or if their books
are compatible with other ebook readers which might be available on
those platforms - though their scans of the PD works would still
suffer the scrolling issues.

I'd be astounded if Apple's ebooks are useful on anything other than
an iDevice without some major hacking.

I would think some of the HTML widgets which our applications use
might be use could potentially know how to handle an external
application already to display a PDF (MacSword's embedding of Safari
and possibly BT's embedding of QWebKit?  Maybe Xiphos with Xulrunner?
Would be an interesting trick to see if the widgets support the
plugins on the system the way the full browsers do).  For BibleCS,
you're on your own, Troy. ;-)

--Greg

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