Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias still exists when the panel votes. Otherwise as I say, it makes sense (I'd personally place Khannouchi first given his fantastic London and Chicago feats). UG - Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula Radcliffe > of > Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its 2002 Athletes Of > The > Year in its December edition. > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > setter > Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according her the > top > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion > Jones > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > (Carl > Lewis did it in 198284), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough > battle. > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support > across > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > 1st-place > votes. > > Men's Voting Leaders: > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > Women's Voting Leaders: > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > >
t-and-f: Guevara
"Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s" 49.16 Ana Guevara MEX04 03 19771Zürich16 08 2002 49.25 Ana Guevara 1Monaco19 07 2002 49.51 Ana Guevara 1Roma12 07 2002 49.56 Ana Guevara 1Madrid20 09 2002 49.69 Ana Guevara 1Bruxelles30 08 2002 49.90 Ana Guevara 1Paris14 09 2002 49.91 Ana Guevara 1Berlin06 09 2002 7 times under 50s is pretty good but agreed Feofanovas performances seem better. regards Steve Bennett www.oztrack.com AthleticsTraining.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of UG - Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula > Radcliffe of Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its > 2002 Athletes Of The > Year in its December edition. > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > setter Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according > her the top > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion > Jones > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > (Carl Lewis did it in 198284), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough > battle. > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support > across > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > 1st-place > votes. > > Men's Voting Leaders: > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > Women's Voting Leaders: > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > >
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
Guevara had 0 losses. Feofanova had 2. Going undefeated counts for something. On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Steve Bennett wrote: > "Guevara, > who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s" > > > 49.16 Ana Guevara MEX04 03 19771Zürich16 08 2002 > 49.25 Ana Guevara 1Monaco19 07 2002 > 49.51 Ana Guevara 1Roma12 07 2002 > 49.56 Ana Guevara 1Madrid20 09 2002 > 49.69 Ana Guevara 1Bruxelles30 08 2002 > 49.90 Ana Guevara 1Paris14 09 2002 > 49.91 Ana Guevara 1Berlin06 09 2002 > > 7 times under 50s is pretty good but agreed Feofanovas performances seem > better. > > > > regards > Steve Bennett > www.oztrack.com > AthleticsTraining.com > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > UG > - > > Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula > > Radcliffe of Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its > > 2002 Athletes Of The > > Year in its December edition. > > > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > > setter Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according > > her the top > > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion > > Jones > > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > > (Carl Lewis did it in 198284), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough > > battle. > > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place > > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support > > across > > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. > > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > > 1st-place > > votes. > > > > Men's Voting Leaders: > > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > > > Women's Voting Leaders: > > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > > > > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
I'll put my money on a miss quote from the reporter. malmo wrote: > Shorter may have gotten Frenn mixed up with those other French > hammer-throwers from Kent State. It could happen. Cosmic > unconsciousness. Shrimp plate $1.99. > > malmo > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lee Nichols > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 5:36 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn > > The wording is vague, so I wonder if the mistake was Shorter's or the > reporter's? The part about Frenn being dead might be understandable, > as athletes get forgotten after their glory years, but the part about > him being a Frenchman would be a strange mistake for Shorter to make, > because Frenn was not exactly obscure -- he was nationally ranked > from 1963 to 1977, including No. 1 three consecutive years (1969-71) > > Lee > > > >From Page A2 of today's New York Times: > > > >Editors' Note > >A front-page article on Monday described the use of steroids by men and > > >women seeking larger, more chiseled bodies. The article traced the > >spread of the drugs from the world of weight lifting and bodybuilding > >to the general society. In discussing the history of steroid use in > >athletic competition, the article cited a comment by Frank Shorter, a > >former Olympic marathon champion, who said that before a meet in France > > >in 1969 he saw the hammer thrower George Frenn inject a steroid into > >his leg. Mr. Shorter is now chairman of the United States Anti-Doping > >Agency, which performs drug tests for Olympic-related sports. The > >article said Mr. Frenn was a Frenchman, and Mr. Shorter said he died at > > >an early age. On Monday, a freelance track journalist alerted The Times > > >that Mr. Frenn was alive and was a native of the United States. > >Telephoned at home in Sacramento, Mr. Frenn said, "Frank Shorter never > >ever saw me inject myself." He declined to answer further questions. In > > >an interview later that day, he added, "How dare Frank Shorter say > >something like that." > > -- > Lee Nichols > Assistant News Editor > The Austin Chronicle > 512/454-5766, ext. 138 > fax 512/458-6910 > http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
John, With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another story-maybe it's true, maybe not. Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. John John Sun wrote: > > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of > > an organization as > > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't > > really remember and > > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the > > credibility issue that concerns > > me. > > > > Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, > which has so many protections in place to ensure US > athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their > doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of > doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't > surprise me given USADA's spotty record. > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
Garry, Who has more credibility, Frank or the reporter? Why would you assume that what you read is actually what Frank said? Except for T&FN reports, I have my doubt about anything that I read in the press. John ghill wrote: > No need to crosscheck: Frank's credibiity takes another hit because he can't > even get the year right. U.S. had duals with Germany (Stuttgart) and Britain > (London) in '69. The U.S.-France dual was in '70. Both Frenn and Shorter > were in all 3 meets (plus the previously mentioned '72 Olympics). And he > remembers him as a Frenchman? > > gh > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:38:59 -0800 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn > > > > I'm sure one of you statisticians is right now checking > > out what meets occured in France in 1969, with Frank > > Shorter entered, and then cross-checking the hammer > > throw entrants in the same meet. > > Do any of those entrants have names that remotely sound > > like George something- maybe "Georges" ? > > > > I suspect that Shorter accurately remembers seeing it > > happen, but has confused the identity of the person he > > saw. And unfortunately the name he threw out is somebody > > who is still living and adamantly denies it- > > perhaps George Frenn was not even entered in ANY meets in > > France in 1969. > > > > RT > >
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
definitely counts, but the quality of results should also play a role. Guevara did not exactly reign supreme as did Feofanova. UG == Quoting Ben Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Guevara had 0 losses. Feofanova had 2. Going undefeated counts for > something. > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Steve Bennett wrote: > > > "Guevara, > > who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive > 400s" > > > > > > 49.16 Ana Guevara MEX04 03 19771Zürich16 08 2002 > > 49.25 Ana Guevara 1Monaco19 07 2002 > > 49.51 Ana Guevara 1Roma12 07 2002 > > 49.56 Ana Guevara 1Madrid20 09 2002 > > 49.69 Ana Guevara 1Bruxelles30 08 2002 > > 49.90 Ana Guevara 1Paris14 09 2002 > > 49.91 Ana Guevara 1Berlin06 09 2002 > > > > 7 times under 50s is pretty good but agreed Feofanovas performances > seem > > better. > > > > > > > > regards > > Steve Bennett > > www.oztrack.com > > AthleticsTraining.com > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > > UG > > - > > > > Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > > > > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula > > > Radcliffe of Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its > > > > 2002 Athletes Of The > > > Year in its December edition. > > > > > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > > > setter Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, > according > > > her the top > > > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to > Marion > > > Jones > > > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > > > > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > > > > (Carl Lewis did it in 198284), mile star El Guerrouj had a very > tough > > > battle. > > > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more > 1st-place > > > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less > support > > > across > > > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. > 1. > > > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > > > 1st-place > > > votes. > > > > > > Men's Voting Leaders: > > > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > > > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > > > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > > > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > > > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > > > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > > > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > > > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > > > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > > > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > > > > > Women's Voting Leaders: > > > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > > > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > > > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > > > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > > > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > > > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > > > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > > > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > > > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > > > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
I'm not convinced there's any quality difference in the results. I don't think it's a fair to compare Feofanova's results (x number of all-time marks) in an event that has only been contested at an elite level for not much more than a handful of years and then compare Guevara to Koch et al. Anyway, it's a toss up between them and you'd call heads and I'd call tails. On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > definitely counts, but the quality of results should also play a role. Guevara > did not exactly reign supreme as did Feofanova. > > UG > == > > Quoting Ben Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Guevara had 0 losses. Feofanova had 2. Going undefeated counts for > > something. > > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Steve Bennett wrote: > > > > > "Guevara, > > > who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive > > 400s" > > > > > > > > > 49.16 Ana Guevara MEX04 03 19771Zürich16 08 2002 > > > 49.25 Ana Guevara 1Monaco19 07 2002 > > > 49.51 Ana Guevara 1Roma12 07 2002 > > > 49.56 Ana Guevara 1Madrid20 09 2002 > > > 49.69 Ana Guevara 1Bruxelles30 08 2002 > > > 49.90 Ana Guevara 1Paris14 09 2002 > > > 49.91 Ana Guevara 1Berlin06 09 2002 > > > > > > 7 times under 50s is pretty good but agreed Feofanovas performances > > seem > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > Steve Bennett > > > www.oztrack.com > > > AthleticsTraining.com > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > > > UG > > > - > > > > > > Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > > > > > > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula > > > > Radcliffe of Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its > > > > > > 2002 Athletes Of The > > > > Year in its December edition. > > > > > > > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > > > > setter Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, > > according > > > > her the top > > > > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to > > Marion > > > > Jones > > > > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > > > > > > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > > > > > > (Carl Lewis did it in 198284), mile star El Guerrouj had a very > > tough > > > > battle. > > > > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more > > 1st-place > > > > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less > > support > > > > across > > > > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. > > 1. > > > > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > > > > 1st-place > > > > votes. > > > > > > > > Men's Voting Leaders: > > > > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > > > > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > > > > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > > > > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > > > > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > > > > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > > > > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > > > > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > > > > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > > > > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > > > > > > > Women's Voting Leaders: > > > > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > > > > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > > > > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > > > > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > > > > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > > > > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > > > > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > > > > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > > > > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > > > > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Hyperbolic fuming (was Re: t-and-f: A dark day)
Randy wrote: >The revelation of the story killing should be a bigger >story than the Augusta story behind it- there are MUCH >bigger implications. >It was indeed a discussion topic on the Fox News Channel >this evening, but I doubt it got any commentary on the >other networks. >But to just yank stories >outright simply because editors believe a viewpoint >different than there own HAS to be erroneous- well, >that's a bunch of garbage. Why would anybody want to >subscribe to a paper like that? I'm sorry, but a screed on media editing the content of news - combined with a plug for Fox News Channel - is too deliciously ironic. I guess if you never hire anyone without a litmus test, you don't need to kill their stories... Fox boss Roger Ailes, of course, was the one who was sending Bush memos on how he should react after 9/11 to come off well in the news cycle (as opposed to those oft-decried 'liberals' over at CNN, who were instructed "You want to make sure people understand that when they see civilian suffering (in Afghanistan) it's in the context of a terrorist attack that caused enormous suffering in the United States.") The NY Times has decided that the Augusta story will sell, and they've latched onto it like a pit bull. If you don't think that virtually every media outlet doesn't have pet stories they develop and keep in the news cycle with a single lockstep viewpoint, then you're naive or delusional. For my money - the NY Times has some great articles on track and field, and Fox barely knows our sport exists. Case closed. Phil (who is patiently waiting for Fox's hard hitting piece on the long term legal implications of the Supreme Court ruling in Bush v Gore, or a discussion of the social benefits of estate and progressive income taxes that doesn't involve shouting.)
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
Hmm While I hardly consider myself a member of the mainstream media (given that A, I write about T&F and B, that I was a bacteriology major), if I didn't belive in the credibility of my press brethren I'd probably feel compelled to take up a new line of work. My mother always hit me with the old screed "don't believe everything you read," but in general I do. gh > From: John Lunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:09:01 -0700 > To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn > > Garry, > Who has more credibility, Frank or the reporter? Why would you assume that > what > you read is actually what Frank said? Except for T&FN reports, I have my doubt > about anything that I read in the press. > John > > > ghill wrote: > >> No need to crosscheck: Frank's credibiity takes another hit because he can't >> even get the year right. U.S. had duals with Germany (Stuttgart) and Britain >> (London) in '69. The U.S.-France dual was in '70. Both Frenn and Shorter >> were in all 3 meets (plus the previously mentioned '72 Olympics). And he >> remembers him as a Frenchman? >> >> gh >> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:38:59 -0800 >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn >>> >>> I'm sure one of you statisticians is right now checking >>> out what meets occured in France in 1969, with Frank >>> Shorter entered, and then cross-checking the hammer >>> throw entrants in the same meet. >>> Do any of those entrants have names that remotely sound >>> like George something- maybe "Georges" ? >>> >>> I suspect that Shorter accurately remembers seeing it >>> happen, but has confused the identity of the person he >>> saw. And unfortunately the name he threw out is somebody >>> who is still living and adamantly denies it- >>> perhaps George Frenn was not even entered in ANY meets in >>> France in 1969. >>> >>> RT >>> > >
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias still exists when the panel votes. "Not terribly impressive"? She went under 50 seven times, including a 49.16! That's only .06 away from making the all-time top ten. And let's not forget that the world record was set by an East German, and half of the top 10 marks were set by Soviet-bloc athletes, and we all know what that means. (Standard disclaimer: No, I'm not implying that non-Commie athletes are pristine. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if any of them are.) I realize Feofanova's best mark was 2nd all-time, but I think the voters probably still view the PV as an event that still isn't quite as mature as the 400. If anything, it is an anti-women's pole vault bias, and one that at this point is still justified, but probably won't be within five years or less. -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
Netters: What makes the Anderson column incident so bad is that we live in an age aof one-newspaper towns which makes it incumbent upon those surviving journals to present as wide a possible range of opinion as possible on controversies of this kind. It alsoi bothers me that there has been no "investigative journalism" on the nature of the organization which is leading the attack upon Augusta. The beam in their eye, in my experience as a journalist, makes the mote in Auguta's pale by comparison. My wife happens to belong to one of the consituent members of this organization. Her group was "taken over" by radical feminism with absolutely no consultation of the hundreds of local groups spread around the country. It just happened. And this is typical of the other major members of the group which is now being hailed as a "civil rights": leader. We have a similar golf club here in NJ, but one that is not in the spotlight because it does not sponsor a major tournament. It wll be interesting to see if it becomes the next target anyway. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
As a reporter myself, I have to agree, I suspect the reporter got something scrambled, not Shorter. This was a pretty long story, and stories of this length involve lots of notes. I try to tape every interview I do, but sometimes I get caught without a recorder and have to scribble on a pad. In those situations, I will openly admit that my quotes are not absolutely 100 percent, word-for-word correct. And sometimes, even with a recorder, I just get confused. The important thing is to make sure you do not change the intent of the person you are quoting (a standard that, last time I checked, had been upheld in federal court). Now obviously, if the reporter did err here, he did not meet that standard. The reason I'm leaning toward the reporter as guilty is because I can't believe Shorter wouldn't remember who Frenn is, and that he would think he was a Frenchman. So if we can reasonably assume the reporter got that wrong, then the part about shooting steroids in the leg could be wrong, too. However, I'm stunned this would get past the Times -- an operation of their magnitude has fact-checkers, I assume, and has much higher standards than, say, the community weekly for which I work. Now if the error really was with Shorter, then he'd better check himself into an Alzheimer's clinic. Lee Nichols Austin John, With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another story-maybe it's true, maybe not. Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. John John Sun wrote: > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of > an organization as > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't > really remember and > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the > credibility issue that concerns > me. > Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, which has so many protections in place to ensure US athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't surprise me given USADA's spotty record. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) > than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly > impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of marks and went undefeated in the process? > ... shows that a certain American bias > still exists when the panel votes. Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If there's any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
t-and-f: Guevara
What is the bias? Guevara's not American feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias still exists when the panel votes. Otherwise as I say, it makes sense (I'd personally place Khannouchi first given his fantastic London and Chicago feats). UG - Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula Radcliffe > of > Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its 2002 Athletes Of > The > Year in its December edition. > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > setter > Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according her the > top > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion > Jones > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > (Carl > Lewis did it in 1982-84), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough > battle. > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support > across > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > 1st-place > votes. > > Men's Voting Leaders: > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > Women's Voting Leaders: > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > >
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
LQQK everyone. I've been told I've been brain dead for some time now. But I clearly remember sitting high above trackside @ the Northeastern Cabot Cage back in 1969 (1970?). I got my first high-paying gig as a field announcer. So the boys are out there contesting the 35 lb. weight throw as a prelude to either the BAA or Knights of Columbus Meeting that was held later on that evening at the old Boston Garden (RIP). Good guy George Frenn was there. He let off a few weight bombs, and I believe set a WR, or at least an AR that afternoon. Anyone confirm that? In any event, I spoke to him shortly after the competition. I don't remember him having a French accent. Larry New England Track [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:04:30 +0200 (IST) > To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > Resent-From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Resent-To: "e. garry hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:59:04 -0800 > > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, > who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, > whereas > feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias > still exists when the panel votes.>> You have NO idea how much it pleases me to be able to respond to a post like this, since "American bias" is a charge which hits our musings on an annual basis. (Not that I figured US people had a bias in favor of Mexicans, so Uri must be speaking of a new thing, a Norte Americano bias.) At any rate, since all the ballots are in a database file, it was easy enough to chuck out everybody from this side of the pond. Result? Guevara's share of the ballots goes UP, Feofanova's goes DOWN, albeit both marginally. So if there's such a bias, it's held more by European voters than American. You'll just have to take my word that I'm speaking the truth here, but how about I swear on the bible (of the sport)? What's really happening--and it makes me proud to work with such a sharp crew--is that the voting panel recognized that dominating the all-time list in a new event isn't all that it's cracked up to be. We know how Guevara's marks stand on a "true" all-time list, and 5 years from now such a season, I'd venture to say, will still look terrific. But I bet 5 years from now Feofanova's '02 season will look terribly pedestrian as 15-foot vaults (oh, sorry 4.57s) become commonplace while sub-50s in the 400 remain rare. This means, of course, that the Panel probablfy did OVER-rate Dragila the last couple of years previous, but at least she was setting WRs. gh
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
According to an AP story I saw this morning, the story that Anderson (and another staffer did one as well) wrote and got cut was because it violated the NYT's rule that the news and editorial sides not be critical of each other. Nobody said Anderson couldn't take a stance contrary to the editorial; what he can't do is directly attack the editorial itself, which it appears he did. I don't think that an illogical or unfair rule at all. gh > From: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Ed Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:00:38 -0800 > To: "track net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda > > Netters: > > What makes the Anderson column incident so bad is that we live in an > age aof one-newspaper towns which makes it incumbent upon those surviving > journals to present as wide a possible range of opinion as possible on > controversies of this kind. > > It alsoi bothers me that there has been no "investigative > journalism" on the nature of the organization which is leading the attack > upon Augusta. The beam in their eye, in my experience as a journalist, makes > the mote in Auguta's pale by comparison. > > My wife happens to belong to one of the consituent members of this > organization. Her group was "taken over" by radical feminism with absolutely > no consultation of the hundreds of local groups spread around the country. > It just happened. And this is typical of the other major members of the > group which is now being hailed as a "civil rights": leader. > > We have a similar golf club here in NJ, but one that is not in the > spotlight because it does not sponsor a major tournament. It wll be > interesting to see if it becomes the next target anyway. > > Ed Grant >
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
Ed Grant wrote: > > My wife happens to belong to one of the consituent members of this > organization. Her group was "taken over" by radical feminism with absolutely > no consultation of the hundreds of local groups spread around the country. > It just happened. And this is typical of the other major members of the > group which is now being hailed as a "civil rights": leader. There is a good column by Pat Buchanan on the Augusta controversy at http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29717. bob
t-and-f: Shorter clarification
I've been reluctant to get involved in this fray about Shorter and Frenn and who said what, but it does involve the inner workings of the place where I work, so I will make a couple of remarks: Did the reporter get it wrong? Actually, there was more than one reporter on this particular article. I don't know which one interviewed Shorter. I can tell you that if you misquote someone here, your reporting career is over. Marty Post was good enough to print the Editors' Note that was printed on Page 2. It said, "the article cited a comment by Frank Shorter... who said that before a meet in France in 1969 he saw the hammer thrower George Frenn inject a steroid into his leg." By wording it in this manner -- and I can tell you that editors' notes here are done very painstakingly and checked and double-checked -- it means that the reporter and his editor were consulted on the "comment by Frank Shorter." They would have been asked to confirm not the accuracy of whether George Frenn did this, but the accuracy of whether Shorter said this to our reporter. There would then be the followup journalistic issue of whether Shorter's remarks were checked for accuracy, and obviously they were not, because no one bothered to check to see if Frenn was still alive. (He had been the subject of a piece in SI just a few weeks ago, actually.) If they had known that, then clearly it would have been our duty to locate Frenn and ask him about this incident. If he had denied it, then Shorter would have been called again, to ask him if he was sure about this. We don't know what would have happened then, because Frenn was never contacted. Is this too much journalistic Inside Baseball? The fact is, this is the sort of thing competent reporters and editors go through to try to get things right, including when you're dealing with conflicting stories, or with people who don't want to answer your questions, or who won't return your phone calls. (I do resent it when people on this chat line harp that newspapers only write articles to sell papers. What a tired line. We report what we feel people have the right to know, what we feel will interest our readers and even our non-readers, and what we feel we have an obligation to report even if no one wants to read it.) Also in the Editor's Note, Frenn is quoted as saying, "Frank Shorter never ever saw me inject myself." That remark isn't saying he never injected himself, only that Shorter never saw him. JP As a reporter myself, I have to agree, I suspect the reporter got something scrambled, not Shorter. This was a pretty long story, and stories of this length involve lots of notes. I try to tape every interview I do, but sometimes I get caught without a recorder and have to scribble on a pad. In those situations, I will openly admit that my quotes are not absolutely 100 percent, word-for-word correct. And sometimes, even with a recorder, I just get confused. The important thing is to make sure you do not change the intent of the person you are quoting (a standard that, last time I checked, had been upheld in federal court). Now obviously, if the reporter did err here, he did not meet that standard. The reason I'm leaning toward the reporter as guilty is because I can't believe Shorter wouldn't remember who Frenn is, and that he would think he was a Frenchman. So if we can reasonably assume the reporter got that wrong, then the part about shooting steroids in the leg could be wrong, too. However, I'm stunned this would get past the Times -- an operation of their magnitude has fact-checkers, I assume, and has much higher standards than, say, the community weekly for which I work. Now if the error really was with Shorter, then he'd better check himself into an Alzheimer's clinic. Lee Nichols Austin John, With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another story-maybe it's true, maybe not. Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. John John Sun wrote: > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of > an organization as > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't > really remember and > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the > credibility issue that concerns > me. > Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, which has so many protections in place to ensure US athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't surprise me given USADA's spotty record. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chr
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
Svetlana had the opportunity on a regular basis to go head to head with the Oly Champ, World Champ and WR holder and beat her. The absence of Freeman, Merry was the difference that I saw. In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:36:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >'m not convinced there's any quality difference in the results.
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
I agree that I think Frank Shorter is too smart a guy to somehow think that his American teammate was French, so I would tend to put that down to confusion on the part of the reporter. However, one thing that I think everyone is overlooking is that Frenn injecting a "steroid" into his leg (and Frank seeing it) may be perfectly innocent. Marty's original post on the topic just said it was a steroid - no mention whether it was an androgen or other illegal drug. So I'm thinking it could well have been a CORTICO-steroid (cortisone, prednisone, etc) to reduce inflammation rather than an androgenic steroid to build muscle. I'm no expert on how dopers administer their drugs, but I could much more easily envision a thrower with aching knees openly injecting cortisone into his legs for pain and inflammation relief than I could see him injecting testosterone or other dope into his leg. (Is the leg the usual site for androgenic dope injection? - seems a little odd to me). It just makes more sense to me that this is what he was probably doing, and maybe the reporter was confused over what Frank was describing. Or perhaps one or both of them failed to adequately distinguish legal corticosteroids from illegal androgenic ones. Kurt Bray As a reporter myself, I have to agree, I suspect the reporter got something scrambled, not Shorter. This was a pretty long story, and stories of this length involve lots of notes. I try to tape every interview I do, but sometimes I get caught without a recorder and have to scribble on a pad. In those situations, I will openly admit that my quotes are not absolutely 100 percent, word-for-word correct. And sometimes, even with a recorder, I just get confused. The important thing is to make sure you do not change the intent of the person you are quoting (a standard that, last time I checked, had been upheld in federal court). Now obviously, if the reporter did err here, he did not meet that standard. The reason I'm leaning toward the reporter as guilty is because I can't believe Shorter wouldn't remember who Frenn is, and that he would think he was a Frenchman. So if we can reasonably assume the reporter got that wrong, then the part about shooting steroids in the leg could be wrong, too. However, I'm stunned this would get past the Times -- an operation of their magnitude has fact-checkers, I assume, and has much higher standards than, say, the community weekly for which I work. Now if the error really was with Shorter, then he'd better check himself into an Alzheimer's clinic. Lee Nichols Austin John, With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another story-maybe it's true, maybe not. Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. John John Sun wrote: > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of > an organization as > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't > really remember and > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the > credibility issue that concerns > me. > Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, which has so many protections in place to ensure US athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't surprise me given USADA's spotty record. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: A dark day
GH wrote: > The concept of a "free press" as we enjoy it today is a much more recent > concept than you might imagine. The following ran in the SF Chronicle the > other day, relative to the behaviour of papers in California politics in a > not-too-distant past. I would add, though, that the difference is that with modern huge, multinational corporate media, a very few people control large segments of the information that the general public gets. The decisions on news reflect positions of the entire corporation -- which usually has many other divisions than simply news. (Often, this tends toward, bland, don't rock the boat positions.) A century and a half ago, it was common for a city of a thousand people to have several newspapers which engaged in vociferous support of their individual politics and vitriolic attacks on each other. Even 50 years ago, big cities had several independent newspapers. Chicago had five, not counting the many ethnic newspapers.) Now there are two. One is owned by the same group that owns the Jerusalem Post and other foreign newspapers; the other is "home owned" (unless I forgot some transaction) and also owns a TV station and other things, so that the newspaper business is a relatively minor part of its empire. This consolidation is a more serious threat to a "free press" than was many independently biased newspapers. In the present example of the NYT, who determined the editorial position on the Augusta National: editors of a newspaper, or corporate marketing executives -- and is there a difference? Pat Palmer
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
She went 9 and 0 versus Dragila. Dragila might as well have taken the year off like Merry and Freeman. She may have been in the meets but she was hardly near her best. On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Svetlana had the opportunity on a regular basis to go head to head with the > Oly Champ, World Champ and WR holder and beat her. The absence of Freeman, > Merry was the difference that I saw. > > In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:36:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >'m not convinced there's any quality difference in the results. >
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
If we want to consider "perfectly innocent" let's discuss the rules in effect in 1969 (and '70), a far simpler time. The rule (144:1) said simply this: "Doping is the employment of drugs with the intention of increasing athletic efficiency by their stimulating action upon muscles or nerves or by paralysing the sense of fatigue. Their use is strongly deprecated not only on moral grounds but because of their danger to health." I would suggest that under that definition, you could argue that anabolics in and of themselves have no "stimulating action" but that corticosteroids do. In any case, the rules contained no list of banned substances. When the '71 rulebook came out , 144:2 replaced the old 144:1 and read: "Doping is the use by or distribution to a compeitor of certain sybstances which could have the efffect of improving artificially the competitor's physical and/or mental condition and so agumenting his athletic performance." And a list followed which included "anabolic steroids." gh > From: "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:37:46 + > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification > > I agree that I think Frank Shorter is too smart a guy to somehow think that > his American teammate was French, so I would tend to put that down to > confusion on the part of the reporter. > > However, one thing that I think everyone is overlooking is that Frenn > injecting a "steroid" into his leg (and Frank seeing it) may be perfectly > innocent. Marty's original post on the topic just said it was a steroid - > no mention whether it was an androgen or other illegal drug. So I'm > thinking it could well have been a CORTICO-steroid (cortisone, prednisone, > etc) to reduce inflammation rather than an androgenic steroid to build > muscle. I'm no expert on how dopers administer their drugs, but I could > much more easily envision a thrower with aching knees openly injecting > cortisone into his legs for pain and inflammation relief than I could see > him injecting testosterone or other dope into his leg. (Is the leg the > usual site for androgenic dope injection? - seems a little odd to me). > > It just makes more sense to me that this is what he was probably doing, and > maybe the reporter was confused over what Frank was describing. Or perhaps > one or both of them failed to adequately distinguish legal corticosteroids > from illegal androgenic ones. > > Kurt Bray > > >> As a reporter myself, I have to agree, I suspect the reporter got something >> scrambled, not Shorter. This was a pretty long story, and stories of this >> length involve lots of notes. I try to tape every interview I do, but >> sometimes I get caught without a recorder and have to scribble on a pad. In >> those situations, I will openly admit that my quotes are not absolutely 100 >> percent, word-for-word correct. And sometimes, even with a recorder, I just >> get confused. The important thing is to make sure you do not change the >> intent of the person you are quoting (a standard that, last time I checked, >> had been upheld in federal court). >> >> Now obviously, if the reporter did err here, he did not meet that standard. >> The reason I'm leaning toward the reporter as guilty is because I can't >> believe Shorter wouldn't remember who Frenn is, and that he would think he >> was a Frenchman. So if we can reasonably assume the reporter got that >> wrong, then the part about shooting steroids in the leg could be wrong, >> too. However, I'm stunned this would get past the Times -- an operation of >> their magnitude has fact-checkers, I assume, and has much higher standards >> than, say, the community weekly for which I work. >> >> Now if the error really was with Shorter, then he'd better check himself >> into an Alzheimer's clinic. >> >> Lee Nichols >> Austin >> >> >> >>> John, >>> With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said >>> this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in >>> the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the >>> statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another >>> story-maybe it's true, maybe not. >>> Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. >>> John >>> >>> John Sun wrote: >>> > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of > an organization as > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't > really remember and > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the > credibility issue that concerns > me. > Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, which has so many protections in place to ensure US athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't surprise me given USADA's spo
RE: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
Let's see if I got this straight: wealthy, insular white women, who live in segregated buildings, eat at segregated restaurants, send their kids to segregated schools, belong to segregated clubs and attend segregated social events, are protesting Augusta's men-only policy so that OTHER wealthy, insular white women, who ... live/eat/send/belong/attend...can join a country club that is open for only two months out of the year? Do I understand correctly? H... What would these women do if they had any real issues in theirs lives.like a broken nail, or split ends or something? malmo Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bob Duncan Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:49 PM To: Track Listserve Subject: Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda Ed Grant wrote: > > My wife happens to belong to one of the consituent members of > this organization. Her group was "taken over" by radical feminism with absolutely > no consultation of the hundreds of local groups spread around the > country. It just happened. And this is typical of the other major > members of the group which is now being hailed as a "civil rights": > leader. There is a good column by Pat Buchanan on the Augusta controversy at http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29717. bob
RE: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
Could have been vitamin B12 - this sometimes is injected as it doesn't absorb from the GI tract very easily. -Buck Jones -Original Message- From: Kurt Bray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification I agree that I think Frank Shorter is too smart a guy to somehow think that his American teammate was French, so I would tend to put that down to confusion on the part of the reporter. However, one thing that I think everyone is overlooking is that Frenn injecting a "steroid" into his leg (and Frank seeing it) may be perfectly innocent. Marty's original post on the topic just said it was a steroid - no mention whether it was an androgen or other illegal drug. So I'm thinking it could well have been a CORTICO-steroid (cortisone, prednisone, etc) to reduce inflammation rather than an androgenic steroid to build muscle. I'm no expert on how dopers administer their drugs, but I could much more easily envision a thrower with aching knees openly injecting cortisone into his legs for pain and inflammation relief than I could see him injecting testosterone or other dope into his leg. (Is the leg the usual site for androgenic dope injection? - seems a little odd to me). It just makes more sense to me that this is what he was probably doing, and maybe the reporter was confused over what Frank was describing. Or perhaps one or both of them failed to adequately distinguish legal corticosteroids from illegal androgenic ones. Kurt Bray >As a reporter myself, I have to agree, I suspect the reporter got something >scrambled, not Shorter. This was a pretty long story, and stories of this >length involve lots of notes. I try to tape every interview I do, but >sometimes I get caught without a recorder and have to scribble on a pad. In >those situations, I will openly admit that my quotes are not absolutely 100 >percent, word-for-word correct. And sometimes, even with a recorder, I just >get confused. The important thing is to make sure you do not change the >intent of the person you are quoting (a standard that, last time I checked, >had been upheld in federal court). > >Now obviously, if the reporter did err here, he did not meet that standard. >The reason I'm leaning toward the reporter as guilty is because I can't >believe Shorter wouldn't remember who Frenn is, and that he would think he >was a Frenchman. So if we can reasonably assume the reporter got that >wrong, then the part about shooting steroids in the leg could be wrong, >too. However, I'm stunned this would get past the Times -- an operation of >their magnitude has fact-checkers, I assume, and has much higher standards >than, say, the community weekly for which I work. > >Now if the error really was with Shorter, then he'd better check himself >into an Alzheimer's clinic. > >Lee Nichols >Austin > > > >>John, >>With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said >>this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in >>the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the >>statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another >>story-maybe it's true, maybe not. >>Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. >>John >> >>John Sun wrote: >> >>> > But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of >>> > an organization as >>> > important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't >>> > really remember and >>> > didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the >>> > credibility issue that concerns >>> > me. >>> > >>> >>> Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, >>> which has so many protections in place to ensure US >>> athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their >>> doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of >>> doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't >>> surprise me given USADA's spotty record. >>> >>> __ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >>> http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >-- >Lee Nichols >Assistant News Editor >The Austin Chronicle >512/454-5766, ext. 138 >fax 512/458-6910 >http://austinchronicle.com _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
RE: t-and-f: Shorter clarification/Steroid question
There was an interesting steroid tidbit that came up in the NFL earlier this year. Pittsburgh quarterback Tommy Maddox injured his head and neck and briefly lost all feeling in his limbs. As he was being rushed to the hospital, the emergency medical people on the ambulance pumped him full of steriods that are banned by the NFL. He ended up being OK, and of course he was not punished for being unconsious while medical people treated him. He's playing this week. What if this happened to a track athlete who had a drug test coming up? Are there common sense rules that would govern this, or just a bunch zero-tolerence, zero-flexibility rules that supercede reason?
t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side of the home page. I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in '92 for Atlanta. The Apocalypse is upon us... gh
t-and-f: T&FN names U.S. AOYs
KHANNOUCHI & JONES NAMED U.S. ATHLETES OF THE YEAR Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named marathoner Khalid Khannouchi and sprinter Marion Jones as its U.S. Athletes Of The Year for 2002. Khannouchi earned 20 of the 24 votes for men's No. 1 as he became the first marathoner to top the voting since Frank Shorter in '72. The other 1st-place votes went to putter Adam Nelson (3) and World Record-setting sprinter Tim Montgomery (1), who finished 2-3 in the tabulation. Jones was a unanimous choice on the women's side as she won for the fifth time, matching the record held by Jackie Joyner-Kersee. Hurdler Gail Devers was a unanimous choice for No. 2. Athletes are listed with the events in which they appeared in the World Rankings. Men's Voting Leaders: 1. Khalid Khannouchi (New Balance--marathon) 235 2. Adam Nelson (Nike--shot) 213 3. Tim Montgomery (Nike--100m) 197 4. Jeff Hartwig (Nike--pole vault) 159 5. Savanté Stringfellow (Nike--long jump) 134 6. David Krummenacker (adidas--800m/1500m-Mile) 79 7. Walter Davis (LSU--triple jump) 61 8. Tom Pappas (adidas--decathlon) 60 9. Allen Johnson (Nike--110m Hurdles) 59 10. Maurice Greene (adidas--100m) 44 Women's Voting Leaders: 1. Marion Jones (Nike--100m/200m) 220 2. Gail Devers (Nike--100m Hurdles) 198 3. Nicole Teter (Nike Farm Team--800) 131 4. Jearl Miles Clark (New Balance--400m) 115 5. Sandra Glover (Nike--400m Hurdles) 111 6. Shelia Burrell (Nike--heptathlon) 103 7. Suzy Favor Hamilton (Nike--1500m-Mile) 101 8. Stacy Dragila (Nike--pole vault) 77 9. Deena Drossin (Asics--10,000m) 60 10. Anna Norgren-Mahon (SoBe--hammer) 52
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
What bothers me is that almost all media outlets are owned by just a handful of corporations, such as News Corp (Fox), Sony, AOL-Time Warner, Disney, etc. Check this out for more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/giants/ What kind of objective reporting do you think they're doing when the bottom line of all their other holdings are at stake? No wonder some want to cut funding to public broadcasting, which itself is increasingly dependent upon corporate money to survive. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
Well, that rule is vague enough to ban just about anything stronger than water. But how was that rule actually applied? Has anyone ever been punished for testing positive for cortisone? Has cortisone ever even been tested for? My impression is that cortisone injections are and have always been accepted as a legal (if not always medically wise) treatment for sports injuries. Kurt Bray If we want to consider "perfectly innocent" let's discuss the rules in effect in 1969 (and '70), a far simpler time. The rule (144:1) said simply this: "Doping is the employment of drugs with the intention of increasing athletic efficiency by their stimulating action upon muscles or nerves or by paralysing the sense of fatigue. Their use is strongly deprecated not only on moral grounds but because of their danger to health." I would suggest that under that definition, you could argue that anabolics in and of themselves have no "stimulating action" but that corticosteroids do. In any case, the rules contained no list of banned substances. When the '71 rulebook came out , 144:2 replaced the old 144:1 and read: "Doping is the use by or distribution to a compeitor of certain sybstances which could have the efffect of improving artificially the competitor's physical and/or mental condition and so agumenting his athletic performance." And a list followed which included "anabolic steroids." gh _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
t-and-f: WPV
Well, look for 2003 to show further action with the German contingent stepping it up. Perhaps, a changing of the guard? In a message dated 12/5/2002 11:37:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >She went 9 and 0 versus Dragila. Dragila might as well have taken the >year off like Merry and Freeman. She may have been in the meets but she >was hardly near her best.
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
Dragila finished 2nd only once in 9 meets against Feofanova; her average finish in the other 8 meets was 4th. gh > From: Ben Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Ben Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:18:03 -0500 (EST) > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Guevara > > She went 9 and 0 versus Dragila. Dragila might as well have taken the > year off like Merry and Freeman. She may have been in the meets but she > was hardly near her best. > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Svetlana had the opportunity on a regular basis to go head to head with the >> Oly Champ, World Champ and WR holder and beat her. The absence of Freeman, >> Merry was the difference that I saw. >> >> In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:36:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> >>> 'm not convinced there's any quality difference in the results. >> >
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
Make it North American bias, As for 5 years from now - the same was said of 12.3-12.4 100m hurdles times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, remember? So let us wait those 5 years and find out if 50 secs indeed remain rare and also observe where 4.80 or so rank one in the women's PV. "Talk" to you about this in 2007. Uri = - Original Message - From: "ghill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "track list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:04:30 +0200 (IST) > > To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > > Resent-From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Resent-To: "e. garry hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:59:04 -0800 > > > > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, > > who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, > > whereas > > feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias > > still exists when the panel votes.>> > > You have NO idea how much it pleases me to be able to respond to a post like > this, since "American bias" is a charge which hits our musings on an annual > basis. (Not that I figured US people had a bias in favor of Mexicans, so Uri > must be speaking of a new thing, a Norte Americano bias.) > > At any rate, since all the ballots are in a database file, it was easy > enough to chuck out everybody from this side of the pond. Result? Guevara's > share of the ballots goes UP, Feofanova's goes DOWN, albeit both marginally. > > So if there's such a bias, it's held more by European voters than American. > > You'll just have to take my word that I'm speaking the truth here, but how > about I swear on the bible (of the sport)? > > What's really happening--and it makes me proud to work with such a sharp > crew--is that the voting panel recognized that dominating the all-time list > in a new event isn't all that it's cracked up to be. > > We know how Guevara's marks stand on a "true" all-time list, and 5 years > from now such a season, I'd venture to say, will still look terrific. But I > bet 5 years from now Feofanova's '02 season will look terribly pedestrian as > 15-foot vaults (oh, sorry 4.57s) become commonplace while sub-50s in the 400 > remain rare. > > This means, of course, that the Panel probablfy did OVER-rate Dragila the > last couple of years previous, but at least she was setting WRs. > > gh
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
Marita Koch and irena Schewinska are two of the all time greatest atheletes, not just "Soviet-block-atheletes-you-know what that means"... UG === - Original Message - From: "Lee Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:38 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > >Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, > >who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive > >400s, whereas > >feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias > >still exists when the panel votes. > > > "Not terribly impressive"? She went under 50 seven times, including a > 49.16! That's only .06 away from making the all-time top ten. And > let's not forget that the world record was set by an East German, and > half of the top 10 marks were set by Soviet-bloc athletes, and we all > know what that means. (Standard disclaimer: No, I'm not implying that > non-Commie athletes are pristine. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if > any of them are.) > > I realize Feofanova's best mark was 2nd all-time, but I think the > voters probably still view the PV as an event that still isn't quite > as mature as the 400. If anything, it is an anti-women's pole vault > bias, and one that at this point is still justified, but probably > won't be within five years or less. > -- > Lee Nichols > Assistant News Editor > The Austin Chronicle > 512/454-5766, ext. 138 > fax 512/458-6910 > http://austinchronicle.com
t-and-f: John Capel
Word out of Gainesville is that he has given up football and is concentrating on a pro track career. gh
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
American, my friend, is anyone living in the continentes of North an South America, not just the USA. === - Original Message - From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) > > than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly > > impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... > > When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of > marks and went undefeated in the process? > > > ... shows that a certain American bias > > still exists when the panel votes. > > Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If there's > any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. > > Dan > > = > http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax >/ / > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
t-and-f: USATF Release: USA Track & Field Foundation established
Contact:Tom Surber Media Information Manager USA Track & Field (317) 261-0500 x317 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, December 5, 2002 USA Track & Field Foundation established at Annual Meeting KANSAS CITY, Mo. USA Track & Field announced the launch of the new USA Track & Field Foundation Thursday morning at the Opening Session of USATF Annual Meeting in Kansas City. The purpose of the Foundation is to enhance lives and communities in the United States through track & field, long distance running and race walking. Foundation President John McArdle presented the plan to the Opening Session. Today is one of the most exciting days Ive had in a long time, said McArdle. This idea has been discussed for a number of years. To finally see it implemented is a great thrill for all of us. We believe the Foundation will serve as a wonderful vehicle to expand involvement in our sport. Over the past several years, track & field and running have experienced substantial increases in popularity and participation. USATF has directly benefited from this running boom via membership growth, thriving events, expanded national television coverage and additional financial resources. The USA Track & Field Foundation will reach out to the thousands of young people who would like to take part in the sport but lack the opportunity. The Foundation will assist dedicated Olympic hopefuls who could realize their dreams and potential if given the opportunity, and also will aid older Americans who would find great joy and benefit from participating if exposed to the very inclusive sport of track & field. The Foundation will assist people of all ages and all walks of life and ability levels in finding fitness, enjoyment and accomplishment through track & field. The leadership of USATF realizing there was substantial, untapped potential for track & field to make a lasting and meaningful impact on the lives of millions of Americans joined with elite and masters athletes, track & field enthusiasts and experienced officials to create the USA Track & Field Foundation. The Foundation will provide a means to attract and guide funds to new and innovative track & field programs. The USA Track & Field Foundation is committed to: Youth: Exposing more young people to the benefits of our sport and funding travel to major youth events. Masters: Expanding existing events and programs and access to them. Elite Athletes: Promoting the development of the Worlds #1 Team. Officials: Helping attract and train the next generation of the worlds best officials. Coaching: Expanding coaching education curricula and providing scholarships to deserving coaches. Track & Field Facilities: Building and improving track & field facilities across America. There are seven levels of giving opportunities, beginning with the Bronze Donor level of $50, all the way up to the Life Benefactor level at $100,000. Other levels include Silver ($100), Gold ($500), Patron ($1,000), President s Club ($5,000) and Benefactor ($10,000). From the Bronze level on up, all donors receive a letter of recognition, a USA Track & Field Foundation window sticker and publication, and recognition of the contribution in USATF publications. Additional benefits are awarded depending on the size of the donation level reached. Donations may be directed toward a specific program. Contributions to the Foundation are tax deductible. Please consult your tax advisor. For more information on the USA Track & Field Foundation, visit www.usatf.org/foundation. Donations may be sent to the USATF National Headquarters at One RCA Dome, Suite 140, Indianapolis, IN 46225. # # #
t-and-f: 1500 meters
Not sure if this has been discussed; USA indoors will run 1500m instead of mile this year. I assume this is to get on par with the rest of the world, this being a W. Champs year and all. However, we'll still be off from the rest of the meets right here in the US. Why don't we all just run the 1600? _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
t-and-f: A different spin on Title IX
And I use the word "spin" carefully, because any time you get into numbers, you can start doing hinky things, but some of the figures she cites are eye-opening. Story, from SF Chronicle, starts: <> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/12/05 /SP47388.DTL
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
Isn't a person living in the continent of North America an American? Or do you reserve this only for US Citizens..Now seriously, I meant a - Original Message - From: "Jack Pfeifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:37 PM Subject: t-and-f: Guevara > >What is the bias? Guevara's not American > > > > > > > > >feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American bias > >still exists when the panel votes. > > > >Otherwise as I say, it makes sense (I'd personally place Khannouchi > >first given > >his fantastic London and Chicago feats). > > > >UG > >- > > > >Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR > > > > > > Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula Radcliffe > > > of > > > Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its 2002 Athletes Of > > > The > > > Year in its December edition. > > > > > > T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record > > > setter > > > Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according her the > > > top > > > spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion > > > Jones > > > (2) and Ana Guevara (1). > > > > > > In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times > > > (Carl > > > Lewis did it in 1982-84), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough > > > battle. > > > Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place > > > votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support > > > across > > > the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. > > > Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got > > > 1st-place > > > votes. > > > > > > Men's Voting Leaders: > > > 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 > > > 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 > > > 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 > > > 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 > > > 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 > > > 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 > > > 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 > > > 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 > > > 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 > > > 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 > > > > > > Women's Voting Leaders: > > > 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 > > > 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 > > > 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 > > > 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 > > > 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 > > > 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 > > > 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 > > > 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 > > > 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 > > > 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 > > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
We need to come up wit the winning name. Because of my lack of orginality, I submitted "Apocalypse" > -Original Message- > From: ghill [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 1:34 PM > To: track list > Subject: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention > > This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side > of > the home page. > > I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in '92 > for Atlanta. > > The Apocalypse is upon us... > > > gh
t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
What makes the Anderson column incident so bad is that we live in an age aof one-newspaper towns which makes it incumbent upon those surviving journals to present as wide a possible range of opinion as possible on controversies of this kind. Re Ed's remark: Let's see, Anderson writes in NYC, where we have: 7 daily newspapers (NYT, Daily News, Post, WSJ, NY Sun, Newsday and USA Today), a dozen cable news channels (Chs 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, CNN, MSNBC, BBC ...), NPR on the radio, and hundreds more news and opinion sources on the www. JP It alsoi bothers me that there has been no "investigative journalism" on the nature of the organization which is leading the attack upon Augusta. The beam in their eye, in my experience as a journalist, makes the mote in Auguta's pale by comparison. My wife happens to belong to one of the consituent members of this organization. Her group was "taken over" by radical feminism with absolutely no consultation of the hundreds of local groups spread around the country. It just happened. And this is typical of the other major members of the group which is now being hailed as a "civil rights": leader. We have a similar golf club here in NJ, but one that is not in the spotlight because it does not sponsor a major tournament. It wll be interesting to see if it becomes the next target anyway. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
While that may be technically correct, I doubt you'll find many people who would support the view that "American" refers to anything other than a citizen of the United States. Nice try, though. :-) Dan --- Uri Goldbourt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > American, my friend, is anyone living in the continentes of North an > South America, not just the USA. > === > - Original Message - > From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) > > > than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly > > > impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... > > > > When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of > > marks and went undefeated in the process? > > > > > ... shows that a certain American bias > > > still exists when the panel votes. > > > > Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If > there's > > any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. > > > > Dan > > > > = > > http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >/ / > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
t-and-f: USATF Release: New USATF Mascot sprints into action
Contact:Melvin Jackson II USATF Communications Coordinator [EMAIL PROTECTED] 317-261-0478 x322 http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, December 5, 2002 New USATF mascot sprints into action KANSAS CITY, Mo. USA Track & Field on Thursday unveiled a new mascot during Opening Session of its 2002 Annual Meeting in Kansas City. This guy is a first for USA Track & Field, said President Bill Roe, introducing the mascot. We believe that the future of our sport lies with attracting and keeping youth, and this mascot will be a key to grabbing them early. The mascot will appear at numerous 2003 events and meetings. It marks the first time USATF will have an official mascot, which has yet to be named. The mascot has a blue body with green hair, and a snout that is in the form of a globe. The globe represents international competition, as Team USA, the Worlds #1 team competes in the worlds most international sport. The mascot is the exclusive property of USATF and will be a part of efforts to brand USATF and the sport of track & field. It is wild and zany on and off the track and will interact with fans, take part in crowd giveaways and pose for photos. All USATF Golden Spike Tour Events and select other track meets will feature the mascot. The mascot will make appearances in several communities with Team USA athletes in a campaign to promote the importance of physical fitness among young people. While the number of physical education programs in the United States decreases, track and cross-country continues to grow as the #1 participatory sport at the junior high and high school levels. Track and field fans will soon be able to log on to www.usatf.org to participate in the naming of the new mascot as well a view the photo gallery highlighting the mascots appearance. # # #
t-and-f: Title IX on 60 Minutes
Although I didn't see last Sunday's program myself (Xmas parade and all that), I'm surprised nobody addressed it on the list. Didn't it spike any passion in anyone? If there's a 60M show along this line that should have sparked interest it was the one about a month ago relative to academic performance in U.S. High schools and universities, broken down along sex lines. Bottom line, as I recall it from so long ago (again, recognizing the fact that when 60M latches onto a thread they're pretty dogmatic about pushing it) was that in terms of both test scores and actual classroom performance, women are far outstripping their male counterparts. That may not surprise anybody. The kicker--and relevance to Title IX--is that they had educators on who say that many universities, including those among the most prestigious, are now ARTIFICIALLY admitting men to keep the sex ratio close to the general population. In other words, qualified women are being bumped from spots in school so inferior men can get in. But, as Malmo would say <> gh
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
What's really great is that they're asking us for name suggestions. I recommended "Dumbass the Dork." Lee This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side of the home page. I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in '92 for Atlanta. The Apocalypse is upon us... gh -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: 1500 meters
How dare you interrupt our drugs & title ix discussions with a real track topic?!! :-) gh > From: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "nad wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:04:00 + > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: 1500 meters > > Not sure if this has been discussed; USA indoors will run 1500m instead of > mile this year. > I assume this is to get on par with the rest of the world, this being a W. > Champs year and all. However, we'll still be off from the rest of the meets > right here in the US. Why don't we all just run the 1600? > > > _ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
malmo wrote: > Let's see if I got this straight: wealthy, insular white women, who live > in segregated buildings, eat at segregated restaurants, send their kids > to segregated schools, belong to segregated clubs and attend segregated > social events, are protesting Augusta's men-only policy so that OTHER > wealthy, insular white women, who ... live/eat/send/belong/attend...can > join a country club that is open for only two months out of the year? Do > I understand correctly? > > H... What would these women do if they had any real issues in theirs > lives.like a broken nail, or split ends or something? > > malmo And this has *what* to do with track and field? Jennifer Peters, leaving the rest of it alone with a *great* deal of restraint. -- Pacem en teris, mir, shanti, salaam, hey wah
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
As a professional media critic, I could expound for hours on this subject. But I won't, because this is the TRACK AND FIELD newsgroup. We're getting a little off-topic here, aren't we? If anyone wants the URL of the archive of my old media columns, I'll be happy to give it, but otherwise, maybe we could try to actually mention track in our posts? :-) Lee What bothers me is that almost all media outlets are owned by just a handful of corporations, such as News Corp (Fox), Sony, AOL-Time Warner, Disney, etc. Check this out for more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/giants/ What kind of objective reporting do you think they're doing when the bottom line of all their other holdings are at stake? No wonder some want to cut funding to public broadcasting, which itself is increasingly dependent upon corporate money to survive. sideshow -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
The vote for Guevara was mandated by an inconspicuous provision of NAFTA. Jim Rorick - Original Message - From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) > > than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly > > impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... > > When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of > marks and went undefeated in the process? > > > ... shows that a certain American bias > > still exists when the panel votes. > > Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If there's > any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. > > Dan > > = > http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax >/ / > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Shorter clarification/Steroid question
For spinal injuries, common practice is to try and block as much of the inflammatory process as possible during the first few hours (the sooner the better - beyond 8 hours is too late). The idea is to reduce tissue damage due to free radical production. They use a glucocorticoid, methylprednisolone, and really load the patient up with high doses. This is a banned steroid, but is not anabolic. As far as a track ban goes, my guess is one would get an exemption. But even if not, would you rather be able to run but not compete or be able to compete but not run? Cheers, Buck -Original Message- From: Bloomquist, Bret [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Shorter clarification/Steroid question There was an interesting steroid tidbit that came up in the NFL earlier this year. Pittsburgh quarterback Tommy Maddox injured his head and neck and briefly lost all feeling in his limbs. As he was being rushed to the hospital, the emergency medical people on the ambulance pumped him full of steriods that are banned by the NFL. He ended up being OK, and of course he was not punished for being unconsious while medical people treated him. He's playing this week. What if this happened to a track athlete who had a drug test coming up? Are there common sense rules that would govern this, or just a bunch zero-tolerence, zero-flexibility rules that supercede reason?
Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda
OK, let me be first! I suggest that the name of the new USA TRACK & FIELD mascot should be Hootie, tieing together both Augusta and Nationals running. :-) > From: Lee Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Lee Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:24:53 -0600 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Dark Day addenda > > As a professional media critic, I could expound for hours on this > subject. But I won't, because this is the TRACK AND FIELD newsgroup. > We're getting a little off-topic here, aren't we? If anyone wants the > URL of the archive of my old media columns, I'll be happy to give it, > but otherwise, maybe we could try to actually mention track in our > posts? > > :-) > Lee >
Re: t-and-f: Guevara
I'd like to see you sell that to Canadians! > From: "Uri Goldbourt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Uri Goldbourt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:56:44 - > To: "Jack Pfeifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Guevara > > Isn't a person living in the continent of North America an American? Or do > you reserve this only for US Citizens..Now seriously, I meant a > - Original Message - > From: "Jack Pfeifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:37 PM > Subject: t-and-f: Guevara > > >>> What is the bias? Guevara's not American >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> feofanova was much better qualitatively, shows that a certain American > bias >>> still exists when the panel votes. >>> >>> Otherwise as I say, it makes sense (I'd personally place Khannouchi >>> first given >>> his fantastic London and Chicago feats). >>> >>> UG >>> - >>> >>> Quoting ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> RADCLIFFE & EL GUERROUJ NAMED ATHLETES OF THE YEAR Mountain View, California--Track & Field News has named Paula > Radcliffe of Great Britain and Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco as its 2002 Athletes > Of The Year in its December edition. T&FN's international panel of experts made marathon World Record setter Radcliffe, 28, an almost unanimous choice for No. 1, according her the top spot on 32 of the 35 ballots. The other votes for No. 1 went to Marion Jones (2) and Ana Guevara (1). In becoming just the second ever to be named men's AOY three times (Carl Lewis did it in 1982-84), mile star El Guerrouj had a very tough battle. Indeed, voting runner-up Khalid Khannouchi actually got more 1st-place votes, 17-16. But the marathoner World Record setter had less support across the board, so El Guerrouj, 28, was able to defend his status as No. 1. Hurdler Felix Sánchez (4) and sprinter Tim Montgomery (1) also got 1st-place votes. Men's Voting Leaders: 1. Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco--1500m) 344 2. Khalid Khannouchi (US--marathon) 319 3. Felix Sánchez (Dominican Republic--400 hurdles) 303 4. Róbert Fazekas (Hungary--discus) 245 5. Adam Nelson (US--shot put) 188 6. Tim Montgomery (US--100m) 157 7. Sergey Makarov (Russia--javelin) 145 8. Roman Sebrle (Czech Republic--decathlon) 120 9. Wilson Kipketer (Denmark--800m) 90 10. Francisco Fernández (Spain--20K walk) 63 Women's Voting Leaders: 1. Paula Radcliffe (Great Britain--distances) 344 2. Marion Jones (US--sprints) 305 3. Ana Guevara (Mexico--400m) 265 4. Svetlana Feofanova (Russia--pole vault) 189 5. Tatyana Kotova (Russia--long jump) 172 6. Gail Devers (US--100 hurdles) 161 7. Kajsa Bergqvist (Sweden--high jump) 149 8. Süreyya Ayhan (Turkey--1500m) 144 9. Maria Mutola (Mozambique--800m) 65 10. Yuliya Pechonkina (Russia--400 hurdles) 40 >> >
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Wow. I do kinda like the globe-as-nose concept though. -- | Bob Ramsak | *TRACK PROFILE News Service - Editor | http://www.trackprofile.com | *Race Results Weekly - Asst. Editor | http://www.raceresultsweekly.com --- |Cleveland, Ohio USA |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Tel - 216-731-9648 |Fax - 216-731-9675 - Original Message - From: "ghill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "track list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:33 PM Subject: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention > This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side of > the home page. > > I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in '92 > for Atlanta. > > The Apocalypse is upon us... > > > gh >
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Is he related to Alf? GM
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
I voted for DQ. According to the press release, the goal is to attract youth, so let's grab them with a name associated with something most kids love (ice cream) as well as significance to T&F. Second choice is B Sample. "...wild and zany on and off the track..." Sounds more like the old, fun John Drummond than somebody in a blue and green ape suit. Bill Bahnfleth At 02:20 PM 12/5/2002 -0600, Lee Nichols wrote: What's really great is that they're asking us for name suggestions. I recommended "Dumbass the Dork." Lee This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side of the home page. I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in '92 for Atlanta. The Apocalypse is upon us... gh -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
t-and-f: USATF Release: 2002 Annual Meeting officially begins with Opening Session
Contact:Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications In Kansas City: 816-283-4420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, December 5, 2002 2002 Annual Meeting officially begins with Opening Session KANSAS CITY, Mo. USA Track & Field President Bill Roe officially opened the 2002 USATF Annual Meeting Thursday morning in Kansas City by honoring the sports top contributors, while CEO Craig Masback recounted the successes of 2002 and looked to the future. Celebrating a theme of These are the Days To Remember, the Annual Meetings Opening Session was attended by nearly 800 delegates. Roe welcomed the delegates to the meeting in his opening remarks. I declare open our 24th USA Track & Field Annual Meeting, he said. Kansas City has rolled out the red carpet for USTAF to create some special memories for you, and we thank the city, as well as the Missouri Valley Association, for all of their hospitality. Roe himself rolled out the red carpet for 12 Presidents Award winners, given annually by the current USTAF president to USATF figures who have made notable contributions to the organization and the sport. The 2002 Presidents Award winners are: Long Distance Running Committee chair Jerry Crockett; former Officials Committee interim chair Finn Hansen; outgoing Athletes Advisory Committee Chair and two-time Olympian PattiSue Plummer; new Rules Committee Chair John Blackburn; Masters Committee Chair George Mathews; Associations Chair Alan Roth; USOC Athlete Representatives and Olympians Sandra Farmer-Patrick and Andrew Valmon; two-time Olympic gold medalist and athlete activist Gail Devers; strategic advisor David Morey; Mountain/Ultra/Trail Committee Chair and World Mountain Running Association treasurer Nancy Hobbs; and Penn Relays Director and track & field historian Dave Johnson. The entire Annual Meeting is all about honoring the past, paying tribute to the present and celebrating the opportunities lying ahead in the future, said Masback, who turned to a more somber note, noting the deaths of the sports high-profile athletes such as Willie Davenport, Bob Hayes and Kim Gallagher, as well as the deaths of contributors such as Owen Jensen. All of us have been particularly touched this year, he said. We lost too many people and so many people close to all of us. Many of those who passed this year were track and field pioneers, innovators who created opportunities for others and who made it possible for USA Track & Field to be where we are today. In his sixth State of the Sport address as USATF CEO, Masback marked the organizations successes of the previous year. USATF revenues exceeded expenditures for the fourth straight year, as the USATF debt continued to shrink. Membership has increased 20 percent since 2000, the 2002 Associations Workshop was the best ever, in terms of both attendance and content, as member benefits increased. Masback also noted the on-track successes of American athletes, including Tim Montgomerys 100m world record, Khalid Khannouchis marathon world best and Marion Jones undefeated season, adding that the United States has won the right to host the 2006 IAAF World Cup. Stipends for coaches have increased, and USATF has established its first high-performance training center, in San Diego, under the leadership of Brooks Johnson. In turning toward the future, Masback referenced USATFs newly adopted Strategic Plan. Developed by the USATF Board of Directors with assistance from the National Headquarters staff, and presented at the Opening Session by Bob Bowman, the Strategic Plan emphasizes four key initiatives: to build the USATF brand by promoting the sport and its stars; to identify and support the stars of the future; to promote excellence in coaching; to grow USTF resources; to promote youth fitness and physical education; and to continue USATFs position of leadership in the fight against drugs in sport. Missouri Valley Association President Shawn Love also recognized his Associations membership chair, Tom Turk, with a special award for his longtime service and dedication to the sport of track & field, particularly as an official. For more information on the 2002 USATF Annual Meeting, visit the USTAF Web site, www.usatf.org # # #
t-and-f: USATF Annual Meeting News & Notes
Contact:Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications In Kansas City: 816-283-4420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org USATF News & Notes Annual Meeting Edition Volume 3, Number 115December 5, 2002 Mens coaching staffs named The Mens Track and Field Staff Subcommittee on Thursday selected coaching staffs for four upcoming international events. 2004 World Junior Championships: Head Coach, Ken Brauman; Head Manager, Cliff Wiley; Assistant Coaches, Bill Carson, Gordon Thompson and Thomas Johnson; Team Substitute, Jack Warner. 2004 World Indoor Track & Field Championships: Head Coach, Lee Evans; Head Manager, Peter Zinno; Assistant Coaches, Scott Hall, Paul Souza and Andrew Alden. 2003 Pan Am Junior Championships: Head Coach, Jim Holdren; Head Manager, Jack Warner; Assistant Coaches, Lance Brauman, Dennis Mitchell, Kevin Brown and Al Hernandez; Head Manager substitute, Pat Pretty. 2003 Multi-Event International Meet: Head Coach, Cliff Rovelto and Head Manager, Dick Moss. Verizon Youth Progress Awards available Applications are now available for the Verizon Youth Progress Award. The Award was established by Verizon and USA Track & Field to identify top high school track and field and cross-country athletes and reward them for their academic performances and their athletic achievements. A total of $20,000 in scholarships will be distributed to deserving students across the country. The scholarship applications process concludes February 15. For scholarship applications and eligibility information, please visit www.verizon.com/usatrackandfield and click on the Youth Scholarship Program link. # # #
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Wow. I do kinda like the globe-as-nose concept though. Looks to me like some science fiction monster about to eat the Earth. I think they should just name it "What the F@#% Is That?", since that's what everyone will be saying anyway. -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Maybe we should call him Bounce, since that is what his name was before he was recycled from the World Basketball Championships that were in Indianapolis this summer: http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/bounce.htm I guess we should be thankful that we didn't get one of the other picks from the mascot orphanage: http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/Event%20Photos/BOUNCE!%20for%20 website/Mascot%20Family.jpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Who actually kind of enjoyed Edmonton's Fielder & Tracker (http://www.digipacsoftware.com/soc/images/worlds/tflg1.jpg), and especially GH's call of the cartoon where Tracker collides with the finish pole.]
t-and-f: that damn mascot
Collected quotes from some of my non-track-watching and/or non-list friends: "That's the worst lookin' mascot i have ever seen." "The mascot's insane. Marketing experts...who needs them?" "You would think the mascot wouldn't have a beer belly. That is one of the worst mascots I've ever seen." "That is pretty bad. I like 'Wally Worldnose' myself" (from my wife) "That is truly awful. It is indeed one of the signs of the apocalypse." "I think he looks like the bear on the Icee cups." "errr...ummm.do they realize that their mascot has a continent on his face?" "looks like they took all the stuff left over in the first grade craft closet at the end of the year and made a costume with it." "Ha, ha, ha, ha! Ha, ha, ha, ha! Hee-hee-hee-hee! Ha, ha, ha, ha!" (this last one is transcribed from memory, and may not be exactly accurate) -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
USATF get a good price on a used-mascot sale on e-Bay? First response in the office when we saw it was that it was a guy wearing basketball gear, and the nose is decidedly evocative of a basketball itself. > From: "Christopher Goss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Christopher Goss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:51:56 -0500 > To: "Worldwide Track & Field Listserv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention > > Maybe we should call him Bounce, since that is what his name was before he > was recycled from the World Basketball Championships that were in > Indianapolis this summer: > > http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/bounce.htm > > > I guess we should be thankful that we didn't get one of the other picks from > the mascot orphanage: > > > http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/Event%20Photos/BOUNCE!%20for%20 > website/Mascot%20Family.jpg > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [Who actually kind of enjoyed Edmonton's Fielder & Tracker > (http://www.digipacsoftware.com/soc/images/worlds/tflg1.jpg), and especially > GH's call of the cartoon where Tracker collides with the finish pole.] > > >
t-and-f: New USATF mascot
Well, it's clearly recycled from the World Basketball Championships. I really hope they don't go with this...looks too much like a basketball mascot. All that its missing is a basketball and a hoop to dunk on. Nothing about it has a "track & field" look to it. Who is the marketing guru behind this decision??? _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
"The mascot is the exclusive property of USATF and will be a part of efforts to brand USATF and the sport of track & field." Maybe USATF figures no one watched the US basketball team's dismal performance at the World Basketball Championships and purchased the exclusive rights on the cheap. Very embarrassing that they are trying to brand the sport with a basketball retread... --- Christopher Goss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe we should call him Bounce, since that is what > his name was before he > was recycled from the World Basketball Championships > that were in > Indianapolis this summer: > > > http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/bounce.htm > > > I guess we should be thankful that we didn't get one > of the other picks from > the mascot orphanage: > > > http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/Event%20Photos/BOUNCE!%20for%20 > website/Mascot%20Family.jpg > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [Who actually kind of enjoyed Edmonton's Fielder & > Tracker > (http://www.digipacsoftware.com/soc/images/worlds/tflg1.jpg), > and especially > GH's call of the cartoon where Tracker collides with > the finish pole.] > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: New USATF mascot
Maybe we can blame George Frenn. Jim Rorick - Original Message - From: "Tom Borish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: t-and-f: New USATF mascot > Well, it's clearly recycled from the World Basketball Championships. I > really hope they don't go with this...looks too much like a basketball > mascot. All that its missing is a basketball and a hoop to dunk on. > Nothing about it has a "track & field" look to it. Who is the marketing > guru behind this decision??? > > > > > _ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Whoa... Has anyone mentioned FATSU yet? Sort of appropriate, being a fatso USATF mascot... Dan --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand > side of the home page. > > I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in > '92 for Atlanta. > > The Apocalypse is upon us... > > > gh > = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Maybe we should call him Bounce, since that is what his name was before he was recycled from the World Basketball Championships that were in Indianapolis this summer: http://www.2002worldbasketball.com/community/bounce.htm Oh. My. God. I was merely embarrassed for my sport before. Now I want to cry. We're pathetic, aren't we? -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766 ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/authors/leenichols.html
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
I think they should name it "Wind-aided" or "Personal Worst" or maybe just "Nandro". Kurt Bray Whoa... Has anyone mentioned FATSU yet? Sort of appropriate, being a fatso USATF mascot... Dan --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand > side of the home page. > > I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in > '92 for Atlanta. > > The Apocalypse is upon us... > > > gh > = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: t-and-f: that damn mascot
Another quote from a non-list friend: "Bart Simpson said it best... it's craptacular!" -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766 ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/authors/leenichols.html
RE: t-and-f: New USATF mascot
Only an MBA could come up with that one! malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Borish Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: New USATF mascot Well, it's clearly recycled from the World Basketball Championships. I really hope they don't go with this...looks too much like a basketball mascot. All that its missing is a basketball and a hoop to dunk on. Nothing about it has a "track & field" look to it. Who is the marketing guru behind this decision??? _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Maybe that's appropriate as another sport in which the US is slowly losing it's spot as a prominent player in world competition. Let's hope that the 2003 Worlds are more succesful for the US T&F team than the WBC were for the USA Basketball team. Jorma - Original Message - > Maybe we should call him Bounce, since that is what his name was before he > was recycled from the World Basketball Championships that were in > Indianapolis this summer: >
RE: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
My wife suggested "Deja Vu". I might just cut that down to "deja" as is in "I think we've had *already* had enough." The thought of the mascot is like one of those crappy songs you can't get out of your head for days on end like "It's a Small World After All", which was stuck in my head of more than a week one cross country season and always seemed to reappear on hard days. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kurt Bray Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention I think they should name it "Wind-aided" or "Personal Worst" or maybe just "Nandro". Kurt Bray >Whoa... Has anyone mentioned FATSU yet? Sort of appropriate, being a >fatso USATF mascot... > >Dan > > >--- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand > > side of the home page. > > > > I think this was an early reject in the contest that "Whatzit" won in > > '92 for Atlanta. > > > > The Apocalypse is upon us... > > > > > > gh > > > > >= >http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. >http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) >_/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax >/ / > >__ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs
At 01:10 PM 12/5/2002 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:43:40 - From: "Uri Goldbourt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN names AOYs Make it North American bias, As for 5 years from now - the same was said of 12.3-12.4 100m hurdles times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, remember? A big difference: the distance (and perhaps spacing) of the hurdles was changed. In other words it was just a variation on an old event. The pole vault is truly a brand new event for women, even more so than the 400 hurdles and triple jump. Richard McCann
