Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 14.09.2015 um 21:41 schrieb Richard Fairhurst :
> 
> amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
>amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle
> 
> Any thoughts?


the theme=bicycle looks ok. Or style.
 
cafe=bicycle makes less sense to me. Someone might come up with a cafe typology 
in the future, and bicycle will be more a theme than a type for me.

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Warin]

On 15/09/2015 6:20 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


Am 14.09.2015 um 21:41 schrieb Richard Fairhurst :

amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle

Any thoughts?


the theme=bicycle looks ok. Or style.
  
cafe=bicycle makes less sense to me. Someone might come up with a cafe typology in the future, and bicycle will be more a theme than a type for me.


cheers
Martin


Theme. Not only cafes but also restaurants, theatres ..these can all have 
themes.
 



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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Dave Swarthout]

The theme=bicycle tag looks good although I prefer the idea of extending
the cafe tag. There is at present a cafe:style tag with only 5 uses in
Taginfo. A better choice? I don't know.

FYI: Taginfo also reports that theme is in wide use. Most of those tags,
however, are found in India and look to be the result of a mass data import
that was done badly. For example, amenity=fuel nodes are tagged with
theme=FACILITY and various types of clinics with theme=HEALTH. People are
doing their own thing again.

Regards,
Dave

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 15/09/2015 6:20 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> Am 14.09.2015 um 21:41 schrieb Richard Fairhurst :
>>>
>>> amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
>>> amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>
>> the theme=bicycle looks ok. Or style.
>>   cafe=bicycle makes less sense to me. Someone might come up with a cafe
>> typology in the future, and bicycle will be more a theme than a type for me.
>>
>> cheers
>> Martin
>>
>
> Theme. Not only cafes but also restaurants, theatres ..these can all have
> themes.
>
>
>
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-- 
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Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Warin]

On 15/09/2015 10:12 AM, Dave Swarthout wrote:
The theme=bicycle tag looks good although I prefer the idea of 
extending the cafe tag. There is at present a cafe:style tag with only 
5 uses in Taginfo. A better choice? I don't know.


FYI: Taginfo also reports that theme is in wide use. Most of those 
tags, however, are found in India and look to be the result of a mass 
data import that was done badly. For example, amenity=fuel nodes are 
tagged with theme=FACILITY and various types of clinics with 
theme=HEALTH. People are doing their own thing again.


Of course they are. I like the New Zealand LINZ imports - they usually use a 
preface of LINZ: to the data they import that has no OSM equivalent.
If such a policy were adopted by the import people things would be easier to 
see.

I like the theme thing precisely because it can be applied to things other than 
just cafes.



Regards,
Dave

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 15/09/2015 6:20 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone

Am 14.09.2015 um 21:41 schrieb Richard Fairhurst
:

amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle

Any thoughts?


the theme=bicycle looks ok. Or style.
  cafe=bicycle makes less sense to me. Someone might come up
with a cafe typology in the future, and bicycle will be more a
theme than a type for me.

cheers
Martin


Theme. Not only cafes but also restaurants, theatres ..these can
all have themes.



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--
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Marc Gemis]

For playground the wiki suggests: playground:theme [1]. That would mean we
should use cafe:theme.
Or could we drop the "playground:" and go for "theme" everywhere ?

regards

,


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:playground#Themes

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> How would you tag a "cycle café"?
>
> I don't just mean one which is popular with cyclists, but one which is
> expressly fitted out and themed to appeal to cyclists. Where there's an
> integral bike shop that's easy; amenity=cafe, shop=bicycle. But with others
> there's no shop, but a very definite steer on the decor, events, and
> clientele. (It's certainly "verifiable".)
>
> A few randomly selected images:
>
> https://boera.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/cafe.jpg
> http://velojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/RedLantern.jpg
> http://bikepgh.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/otb_pinball.jpg
>
> Two ideas:
>
> amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
> amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

theme is more universal
- so one may easily find for example all bicycle-styled POIs (I would
  expect that not only cafes may be styled like this)
- potentially too universal (used for more than one purpose)

I would use "theme".

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 07:12:26 +0700
Dave Swarthout  wrote:

> The theme=bicycle tag looks good although I prefer the idea of
> extending the cafe tag. There is at present a cafe:style tag with
> only 5 uses in Taginfo. A better choice? I don't know.
> 
> FYI: Taginfo also reports that theme is in wide use. Most of those
> tags, however, are found in India and look to be the result of a mass
> data import that was done badly. For example, amenity=fuel nodes are
> tagged with theme=FACILITY and various types of clinics with
> theme=HEALTH. People are doing their own thing again.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 15/09/2015 6:20 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> sent from a phone
> >>
> >> Am 14.09.2015 um 21:41 schrieb Richard Fairhurst
> >> :
> >>>
> >>> amenity=cafe, cafe=bicycle
> >>> amenity=cafe, theme=bicycle
> >>>
> >>> Any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>
> >> the theme=bicycle looks ok. Or style.
> >>   cafe=bicycle makes less sense to me. Someone might come up with
> >> a cafe typology in the future, and bicycle will be more a theme
> >> than a type for me.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Martin
> >>
> >
> > Theme. Not only cafes but also restaurants, theatres ..these can
> > all have themes.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Richard Fairhurst]

Mateusz Konieczny wrote (and others said similarly):
> I would use "theme".

That's great. 'theme=bicycle' it is then. Nice (and rare) to get consensus
so quickly! Thanks all.

Richard





--
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 15.09.2015 um 02:12 schrieb Dave Swarthout :
> 
> There is at present a cafe:style tag with only 5 uses in Taginfo. A better 
> choice? I don't know.


I also thought initially about prefixing cafe like cafe:style and cafe_style 
(or theme), but it makes searching more complicated because we might also get 
restaurant:style, bar:style, biergarten:style, fast_food:style etc.

If the mapping is done well (one object for the cafe only, not mixed with other 
entities like barriers, buildings, places etc.) there is no need to explicitly 
add cafe into the subtag name, but it would rather make tagging worse to do so.

As for style vs. theme, in the case of a bicycle cafe, theme seems a better 
choice (and allows for adding a style tag as well, e.g. 70ies style, bauhaus 
style, retro-modernist style, futurist style, louis xvi style, imperial style, 
art deco ...)


cheers 
Martin 

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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Marc Gemis]

Do we update the playground scheme ? the wiki page mentions
playground:theme.



On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> Am 15.09.2015 um 02:12 schrieb Dave Swarthout :
>
> There is at present a cafe:style tag with only 5 uses in Taginfo. A better
> choice? I don't know.
>
>
>
> I also thought initially about prefixing cafe like cafe:style and
> cafe_style (or theme), but it makes searching more complicated because we
> might also get restaurant:style, bar:style, biergarten:style,
> fast_food:style etc.
>
> If the mapping is done well (one object for the cafe only, not mixed with
> other entities like barriers, buildings, places etc.) there is no need to
> explicitly add cafe into the subtag name, but it would rather make tagging
> worse to do so.
>
> As for style vs. theme, in the case of a bicycle cafe, theme seems a
> better choice (and allows for adding a style tag as well, e.g. 70ies style,
> bauhaus style, retro-modernist style, futurist style, louis xvi style,
> imperial style, art deco ...)
>
>
> cheers
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 05:25:16 +0200
Marc Gemis  wrote:

> For playground the wiki suggests: playground:theme [1]. That would
> mean we should use cafe:theme.
> Or could we drop the "playground:" and go for "theme" everywhere ?
> 
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:playground#Themes

I would go with the everywhere - easier to tag and use.


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 15.09.2015 10:57, Mateusz Konieczny napisał(a):


I would go with the everywhere - easier to tag and use.


+1. For example theme=* key would be especially useful for 
tourism=theme_park. =}


--
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down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 15.09.2015 um 10:56 schrieb Marc Gemis :
> 
> Do we update the playground scheme ? the wiki page mentions playground:theme.


IMHO not, but we could ;-)

currently just 45 uses


there is also naturebase:theme:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/naturbase%3Atheme
with foreign language values.

and there's "theme" with very atypical UPPERCASE values (import?):
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/theme

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Jo]

What about an indoor playground in a café? I can think of an examplen in
Aarschot, Belgium (Bekaf), but OK, neither the playground nor the cafe are
going with a theme. The question is, what if they had and both themes were
different?

I would stick with playground:theme. It's nice and clear. The subset of
themes for a playground are also likely different than the ones for
cafes/restaurants/hotels.

Polyglot



2015-09-15 11:41 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Am 15.09.2015 um 10:56 schrieb Marc Gemis :
> >
> > Do we update the playground scheme ? the wiki page mentions
> playground:theme.
>
>
> IMHO not, but we could ;-)
>
> currently just 45 uses
>
>
> there is also naturebase:theme:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/naturbase%3Atheme
> with foreign language values.
>
> and there's "theme" with very atypical UPPERCASE values (import?):
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/theme
>
> cheers
> Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-09-15 12:17 GMT+02:00 Jo :

> What about an indoor playground in a café? I can think of an examplen in
> Aarschot, Belgium (Bekaf), but OK, neither the playground nor the cafe are
> going with a theme. The question is, what if they had and both themes were
> different?



you would add "theme" to the cafe object and "theme" to the playground
object. You will hardly tag amenity=cafe and leisure=playground on the same
object, would you?

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Jo]

It's an indoor playground which forms an integral part of the café. Could
always be mapped as a node inside the building contour, I guess.

Jo

2015-09-15 13:27 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> 2015-09-15 12:17 GMT+02:00 Jo :
>
>> What about an indoor playground in a café? I can think of an examplen in
>> Aarschot, Belgium (Bekaf), but OK, neither the playground nor the cafe are
>> going with a theme. The question is, what if they had and both themes were
>> different?
>
>
>
> you would add "theme" to the cafe object and "theme" to the playground
> object. You will hardly tag amenity=cafe and leisure=playground on the same
> object, would you?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Tom Pfeifer]

Please consider that a playground often creates a 'parallel universe', that
only mimics the 'real world'.

So if our railway enthusiasts look for locomotive themed locations, they would 
not
necessarily want to be shown playground locomotives.

The idea for playground:theme=* came up when johnw was looking for labelling
octopus-themed playgrounds in Japan (though he has not applied it yet).

Thus, while I am happy with theme=* for the cafe example, I'd prefer to
keep the playground:theme=* namespace separate.

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 2015-09-15 13:27:


2015-09-15 12:17 GMT+02:00 Jo mailto:winfi...@gmail.com>>:

What about an indoor playground in a café? I can think of an examplen in 
Aarschot, Belgium (Bekaf), but OK, neither the playground nor the cafe are 
going with a theme. The question is, what if they had and both themes were 
different?



you would add "theme" to the cafe object and "theme" to the playground object. 
You will hardly tag amenity=cafe and leisure=playground on the same object, would you?





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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-09-15 14:25 GMT+02:00 Tom Pfeifer :

> The idea for playground:theme=* came up when johnw was looking for
> labelling
> octopus-themed playgrounds in Japan (though he has not applied it yet).
>
> Thus, while I am happy with theme=* for the cafe example, I'd prefer to
> keep the playground:theme=* namespace separate.
>


So should we also use playground:name rather than name?

IMHO it is clear that tags belong to the object where they are added to
(context). This is also the reason I don't believe mixing up stuff is a
good idea.
E.g.
man_made=tower (polygon)
fence=yes
height=2 m

is (hypothetical) bad tagging for a fenced tower (you don't know where the
height tag belongs to) mapped as an area.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[John Willis]

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> 
> , they would not
> necessarily want to be shown playground locomotives.
> 
> The idea for playground:theme=* came up when johnw was looking for labelling
> octopus-themed playgrounds in Japan (though he has not applied it yet).

Yea, the octopus playground is a very nostalgic piece in Japan, and few new 
ones are made AFAIK. People catalog them online (like railfans cataloging 
bridges or locomotives), so i wanted a way to tag them when the equipment 
itself is made into the shape of a giant octopus.

I love the idea of railfans searching for "train themed locations"!  

I guess if you were looking for 50's style diners with waitresses in hoop 
skirts or something, theme might be a very big part of the choice.

But considering the overlap that can occur with themes, it might be good to tie 
some to their parent tag to avoid a kind of tag pollution. Theme parks, 
restaurants, and playgrounds may all have themes, but often times the theme of 
the park is much more pertinent than that of a concrete octopus slide. 

A lot of theme parks are tied to their brand (disney), so places with a very 
obvious theme might just be their brand. 

Javbw
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-09-15 15:56 GMT+02:00 John Willis :

> A lot of theme parks are tied to their brand (disney), so places with a
> very obvious theme might just be their brand.



still they have subsections (like scifi EPCOT if I recall right)

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-09-15 16:06 GMT+02:00 Daniel Koć :

> So maybe theme=multi for the whole area?



I would tag the subareas with their respective theme tag and either don't
care for the whole or use something like the suggested theme=disney.
"multi" is mostly useless, as you don't know what it stands for.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 15.09.2015 16:01, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):

2015-09-15 15:56 GMT+02:00 John Willis :


A lot of theme parks are tied to their brand (disney), so places
with a very obvious theme might just be their brand.


still they have subsections (like scifi EPCOT if I recall right)


So maybe theme=multi for the whole area?

--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags 
down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[John Willis]

I have no idea about this, but are there ways to tag zones in a theme park? 

Trying to discern themes might be really difficult without a good list of 
beginning themes. 

Westernland and tomorrowland, etc, for example. 

Is that cowboy and astronaut? The old west? Retro space? Pioneer times? 
Rocketships? 

These are the zone names in Japan - "frontier" means like living with cows in 
the snow in Hokkaido, so they use "westernland", which maps better to "western 
US cowboy gold-rush" - like the film genre. 

It will be super-easy to make a crap-ton of different tag values for the same 
basic thing. 

Javbw

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:09 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> the suggested theme=disney. "multi" is mostly useless, as you don't know what 
> it stands for.

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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 15.09.2015 16:09, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):


I would tag the subareas with their respective theme tag and either
don't care for the whole or use something like the suggested
theme=disney. "multi" is mostly useless, as you don't know what it
stands for.


I would use "disney"* as a special case, but in general "multi" would be 
good to indicate that the area has multiple themes inside (and we just 
don't have more exact classification). It's still some kind of 
additional information describing the park.


* ...or "Disney"? the same problem: "viking" or "Viking"?

--
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down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Jo]

2015-09-15 16:29 GMT+02:00 John Willis :

> I have no idea about this, but are there ways to tag zones in a theme park?
>
> Trying to discern themes might be really difficult without a good list of
> beginning themes.
>
> Westernland and tomorrowland, etc, for example.
>
> Is that cowboy and astronaut? The old west? Retro space? Pioneer times?
> Rocketships?
>
> These are the zone names in Japan - "frontier" means like living with cows
> in the snow in Hokkaido, so they use "westernland", which maps better to
> "western US cowboy gold-rush" - like the film genre.
>
> It will be super-easy to make a crap-ton of different tag values for the
> same basic thing.
>

wikidata to the rescue?

Jo
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:25:41 +0200
Tom Pfeifer  wrote:

> So if our railway enthusiasts look for locomotive themed locations,
> they would not necessarily want to be shown playground locomotives.

Some would want to find also that. Excluding leisure=playground is far
easier than guessing multiple tags used for the same thing.

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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes

[23maps . it]

> Am 15.09.2015 um 16:38 schrieb Daniel Koć :
> 
> * ...or "Disney"? the same problem: "viking" or "Viking"?


is it a formal value with a predefined list (disney) or is it like a name or 
description with infinite possibilities  (Disney)? I'd use the lower case form 
(and see Disney more as a genre of its own rather than the name of the dead 
artist with whose heritage you can still make lots of bucks).


cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes ... and Repair Cafés

[André Pirard]

On 2015-09-14 21:41, Richard Fairhurst wrote :
> How would you tag a "cycle café"?
And, while we are at it, a "Repair Café ".
Also, usually www.repaircafe.CC.
Those I've seen use amenity=cafe, which many are not, using other premises.
It's one case again in which I suggested to use OSM and I didn't receive
a single answer.
And yet, I showed them this nice map

where n° 1 is in a better place than in this dull one
.

Cheers

André.



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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes ... and Repair Cafés

[Jo]

Maybe we could start using repair=assisted_self_service for repair shops
with

repair:wood=yes
repair:clothes=yes
repair:furniture=yes
repair:metal=yes
repair:computers=yes
repair:smartphones=service

It seems odd that after all this time we still don't  have a way to tag DIY
repair shops. Most are organised like an event, but at the social outreach
mapping party I went to yesterday, this was one of the many questions that
came up, to which I couldn't provide a decent answer.

Polyglot

2015-09-15 1:53 GMT+02:00 André Pirard :

> On 2015-09-14 21:41, Richard Fairhurst wrote :
>
> How would you tag a "cycle café"?
>
> And, while we are at it, a "Repair Café ".
> Also, usually www.repaircafe.CC.
> Those I've seen use amenity=cafe, which many are not, using other premises.
> It's one case again in which I suggested to use OSM and I didn't receive a
> single answer.
> And yet, I showed them this nice map
> 
> where n° 1 is in a better place than in this dull one
> 
> .
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cycle cafes ... and Repair Cafés

[Warin]

Start a new subject.

DIY repair shop has so little to do with Cyber Cafes.

In fact I'll start one for you!!!
subject 'tagging  DIY repair shops?'

On 28/02/2016 11:22 PM, Jo wrote:
Maybe we could start using repair=assisted_self_service for repair 
shops with


repair:wood=yes
repair:clothes=yes
repair:furniture=yes
repair:metal=yes
repair:computers=yes
repair:smartphones=service

It seems odd that after all this time we still don't  have a way to 
tag DIY repair shops. Most are organised like an event, but at the 
social outreach mapping party I went to yesterday, this was one of the 
many questions that came up, to which I couldn't provide a decent answer.


Polyglot





2015-09-15 1:53 GMT+02:00 André Pirard >:


On 2015-09-14 21:41, Richard Fairhurst wrote :

How would you tag a "cycle café"?

And, while we are at it, a "Repair Café
". Also, usually www.repaircafe.CC
.
Those I've seen use amenity=cafe, which many are not, using other
premises.
It's one case again in which I suggested to use OSM and I didn't
receive a single answer.
And yet, I showed them this nice map


where n° 1 is in a better place than in this dull one

.

Cheers

André.




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