Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[John Sturdy]

I've seen such a station powered by solar panels on its roof; I didn't
investigate whether it has internal batteries for use outside of sunlight
hours, but it might be worth adding a tag for the power source for cases
like that.

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:49 AM bkil  wrote:

> This is what you are looking for, it has been used 160 times:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddevice_charging_station
>
> Although, I'd probably just unify this with amenity=charging_station
> and always specify the socket type and voltage. You should only
> navigate to a charging station that has a compatible socket anyway.
>
> I usually mark the available sockets using power_supply=* on cafes and
> pubs where I can charge my computer or phone without guilt. It can be
> useful for both mapping parties and drone photography.
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 6:59 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 22/06/19 11:24, marc marc wrote:
> > >> waiting areas often have specific locations
> > >> to charge electronic devices.
> > >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aamenity%3Ddevice_charging_station
> > >
> > >   >  amenity=charging_station <> amenity=power_supply
> > >
> > > some normal electrical outlets allow cars to be charged
> > > and some charging terminals use normal outlets.
> > >
> > > I think we're gonna to do it in two proposals:
> > > - get amenity=power_supply adopted
> > > - try to harmonize how the type of socket/plug is described.
> > > socket key is probably the most successful but for charging stations,
> > > the information is missing if it is a plug or a plug at the end of a
> > > cable on the terminal side.
> >
> > What is really being tagged here?
> >
> > The socket.
> >
> > So tag "electrical_socket=USB/*"??
> > That clearly says what it is, not a power generating station or some
> other thing that could be construed in to a 'power supply'.
> >
> > Add tags access=customers/* fee=no/yes/* and
> > for the detailed types of mappers voltage=*, frequency=*.
> > The type of socket will usually determine the maximum current/power so
> I'd not tag that.
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Mark Wagner]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 01:23:35 +0100
Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 23:56, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:53, Paul Allen  wrote:
> >  
> >> Having power_supply=yes indicates that the socket type is unknown,
> >>  
> >
> > But wouldn't that default as the country you're in? If you're in
> > Britain, it's a British socket, so you need a "British" plug (or an
> > International adaptor!) to plug in, in Australia an Oz socket & so
> > on. 
> 
> It's not that simple.  Indoors in the UK it's a BS1363 socket.
> Outdoors on a camp site it will most
> likely be a CEE 17 blue single-phase.  But it's possible you might
> get CEE 17 red three-phase
> in some situations.  I've a vague memory there are other connectors
> used in marine applications.
> Also, although BS1363 connectors are for indoor usage, it's possible
> to get weatherproof
> housings for external use.  So even in just the UK, if a camp site
> says power hook-ups are
> available you can't be sure what connector is used.  Most likely CEE
> 17 blue, but maybe not.
> 
> Things get worse in Germany and France, as far as the indoor
> connectors go.  See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#CEE_7_standard
> and try to guess what you might get in either country.  I expect they
> also have weatherproof
> housings for external use.
> 
> Hence power_supply=yes means there is a hook-up but the mapper
> doesn't know what it is.
> 

In the United States, a "power_supply=yes" is virtually certain to have
a NEMA 5-15 or NEMA 5-20 socket (120-volt, 15-amp or 20-amp).  However,
knowing that is of limited value, since most RVs have either a NEMA
TT-30 (120-volt, 30-amp) or NEMA 14-50 (240 volt split-phase, 50 amp)
plug.  A camp site may have one, both, or neither in addition to the
NEMA 5 socket.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 21.06.2019 um 21:15 schrieb François Lacombe :
> 
> It's more fun to use socket=* than power_supply:socket_type=* since the only 
> important word is "socket". 
> Power_supply comes in another tag and _type doesn't bring any additionnal 
> information.


+1

Cheers, Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 18:26, Philip Barnes  wrote:


> On camp sites in the UK and France the hook-up is a CEE 17 blue
> single-phase in my experience.
>

I think that's what the UK wiring regs mandate for new installations.  And
have done for many years.
But there may be older installations offering what was permitted before CEE
17 came along unless
legislation has been passed mandating they be replaced.

It's fairly rare for legislation like that with regard to wiring unless
there have been serious problems
with the old stuff (like aluminium wiring in housing).  Fit (or replace) a
consumer unit and it has
to have MCBs and an RCD in a metal case.  But if you have MCBs and an RCD
in a plastic
case (acceptable until recently) you don't have to replace it.  If your
consumer unit has fuses rather
than MCBs and doesn't have an RCD you don't have to replace it.  So, unless
somebody can
point to relevant legislation, I'd expect pre-CEE 17 installations to still
exist - with a properly
waterproofed enclosure BS1363 outlets would do the job, albeit with a lower
current rating.

So, on the principle of verifiability, if a UK camping site advertises
electrical hook-ups but doesn't
specify the connector, I wouldn't tag it as CEE 17 blue even though it is
almost certain to be so.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Philip Barnes]

On Sat, 2019-06-22 at 01:23 +0100, Paul Allen wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 23:56, Graeme Fitzpatrick <
> graemefi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:53, Paul Allen 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Having power_supply=yes indicates that the socket type is
> > > unknown, 
> > 
> > But wouldn't that default as the country you're in? If you're in
> > Britain, it's a British socket, so you need a "British" plug (or an
> > International adaptor!) to plug in, in Australia an Oz socket & so
> > on.
> 
> It's not that simple.  Indoors in the UK it's a BS1363 socket. 
> Outdoors on a camp site it will most
> likely be a CEE 17 blue single-phase.  But it's possible you might
> get CEE 17 red three-phase
> in some situations.  I've a vague memory there are other connectors
> used in marine applications.
> Also, although BS1363 connectors are for indoor usage, it's possible
> to get weatherproof
> housings for external use.  So even in just the UK, if a camp site
> says power hook-ups are
> available you can't be sure what connector is used.  Most likely CEE
> 17 blue, but maybe not.
>  
On camp sites in the UK and France the hook-up is a CEE 17 blue single-
phase in my experience. 

I would assume the rest of Europe is the same although have not camped
outside UK and France since I have been of an age where I appreciate
electricity in a tent.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[François Lacombe]

Thanks for answer

Le dim. 23 juin 2019 à 14:20, Paul Allen  a écrit :

> On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 13:01, François Lacombe 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Le dim. 23 juin 2019 à 13:49, Paul Allen  a écrit :
>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 02:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Aircraft too can have an external electrical power connection.

>>>
>>> Aircraft power is rather specialized.
>>>
>>
>> Like any power supply.
>>
>
> Erm, yes and no.  Our existing tags don't specify frequency or voltage but
> connectors and you
> have to infer what is going to come out of those connectors.
>

Err what is this?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:voltage
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:frequency

Ratherly agreed defaults don't prevent anyone to specify values in all
situations if ou she/he wants to.


>
> Being different from domestic power doesn't make a power supply more
>> special than another one.
>> Like any man made thing, it is adapted to use case (which can be
>> described in a dedicated OSM tag)
>>
>
> Yes, you can tag it but  you cannot place its position.   It's not stuck
> in the ground like a car
> charging station or a camp site hook-up, it's mobile. At its simplest, a
> GPU is not much more
> than a couple of 12V lead acid batteries in a wheelbarrow.
>

Here is the Zurich Airport ground energy systems documentation.
Three types of supplies : Aircraft, ground and GPU
https://www.zurich-airport.com/~/media/flughafenzh/dokumente/das_unternehmen/laerm_politik_und_umwelt/luft/2018_zrh_aircraft-ground-energy-system_20180214.pdf

OSM would only describe ground power supplies and obviously not mobile GPU
precisely because they move.
It's not so desirable to add power_supply=GPU on the airport perimeter or
relation because you'll have to deald with electronic appliances charging
supplies, industrial supplies or any other numerous kind of supplies in
such a complex facility.

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 13:40, François Lacombe 
wrote:

>
> Le dim. 23 juin 2019 à 14:20, Paul Allen  a écrit :
>
>> On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 13:01, François Lacombe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Le dim. 23 juin 2019 à 13:49, Paul Allen  a écrit :
>>>
 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 02:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Aircraft too can have an external electrical power connection.
>

 Aircraft power is rather specialized.

>>>
>>> Like any power supply.
>>>
>>
>> Erm, yes and no.  Our existing tags don't specify frequency or voltage
>> but connectors and you
>> have to infer what is going to come out of those connectors.
>>
>
> Err what is this?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:voltage
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:frequency
>

Something I didn't know about. :)

>
> Here is the Zurich Airport ground energy systems documentation.
> Three types of supplies : Aircraft, ground and GPU
>
> https://www.zurich-airport.com/~/media/flughafenzh/dokumente/das_unternehmen/laerm_politik_und_umwelt/luft/2018_zrh_aircraft-ground-energy-system_20180214.pdf
>

Ah, OK.  I live and learn.  I'm more familiar with smaller airfields.

It's not so desirable to add power_supply=GPU on the airport perimeter or
> relation because you'll have to deald with electronic appliances charging
> supplies, industrial supplies or any other numerous kind of supplies in
> such a complex facility.
>

Thinking of airfields I'm familiar with, power_supply=GPU on the airport
perimeter would be
necessary.  One only has mobile GPUs.  A couple are on air force bases, so
the messes may have
appliance charging these days.  One has no catering/residential facility (a
hotel has long been
planned but never materialized) so for all practical purposes there is only
the mobile GPU(s)
to deal with.  Yeah, I'm sure special arrangements could be accommodated,
like "Do you mind
if I use a mains socket in your office to charge my phone?" but
unless/until it's offered as
a service, I wouldn't map it.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Jan S]

Am 23. Juni 2019 14:16:43 MESZ schrieb Paul Allen :
>Mapping a GPU would be like mapping a tractor on a farm.  It's not
>sensible
>because it moves.

Wouldn't it make sense then to tag it with the airport or airstrip and indicate 
the connector/voltage/etc for the entire facility?

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 02:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

Aircraft too can have an external electrical power connection.
>

Aircraft power is rather specialized.  Three phase 115 VAC @ 400 Hz and/or
28 VDC
(14 VDC for some light aircraft).  The connectors are rather specialized
too.  More
importantly, it's usually provided by a mobile Ground Power Unit, which is
not really
something we can map.  Some people have mapped mobile street vendors which
stop at
a certain location or locations (such as a mobile chip shop that visits
different villages
on different days), but GPUs are rolled up to wherever an aircraft happens
to be.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Warin]

On 22/06/19 19:16, Colin Smale wrote:


On 2019-06-22 10:20, Michael Brandtner via Tagging wrote:


I've found this Wikipedia page:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorepower
There is no shore power tag in OSM yet. But now I'm uncertain if we 
should also make a difference between shore power and power supply 
for other uses.


The (intended) usage is a separate concept from the mechanical and 
electrical characteristics of the socket/supply. How about 
usage=shore_power or usage=vehicle_charging as a start? Shore power 
for campers will inevitably be used to recharge large batteries, but 
maybe not the traction batteries if it's electrically propelled.




+1 to separate the usage from the item.

'Shore power' is not at battery voltage. The vast majority will be for 
smaller ships/boats and will be similar to normal domestic power, 
probably with some weather proofing. In Australia the camp site power 
connections could well be the same connection. Only large international 
ocean gong craft would have power requirements that are larger than a 
domestic household would require larger connections. Aircraft too can 
have an external electrical power connection.




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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 02:28, marc marc  wrote:

socket key is probably the most successful but for charging stations,
> the information is missing if it is a plug or a plug at the end of a
> cable on the terminal side.
>

Terminology gets messy.  Different parts of the world and different
industries give the terms
different meanings.

1) Contact shape.  For most common connectors, there is an analogy between
contact
shape and sexual organs, so male contacts go into female contacts.  By some
definitions, male
contacts = plug, female contacts = socket, regardless of other factors (but
see point 2).

2) Fixed or free.  Fixed connectors are receptacles.  The free connector is
often known as a plug,
regardless of the contact style.  In the US the fixed connector is also
known as a jack whereas
in the UK it's the fixed connector that is known as a jack.  The term
"jack" should be avoided.
By some definitions, fixed connector = socket, free connector = plug,
regardless of other
factors (but see point 1).

3) It is possible for the fixed receptacle (a socket as per definition 1)
to have male contacts
(a plug as per definition 2).  See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_connectors_and_fasteners#Electrical_and_electronic
where it shows a female VGA receptacle and a male DE-9 receptacle.  Both
are chassis-
mounted D-type connectors, one with male contacts the other with female
contacts.  Are they
both sockets (as per point 2) or one plug and one socket (as per point 1)?

4) Generally, the side of a connector pair that carries dangerous voltages
should be female
to make it harder for somebody to accidentally touch live parts.  However,
it is possible to get
connectors with shrouded male contacts.  So the free connector of a power
supply to have
female contacts (a socket as per point 1) it might have shrouded male
contacts (a plug as per
point 1).

5) You can get hermaphroditic connectors.  Not only are the contacts
hermaphroditic, but so are
the housings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Powerpole  and
http://www.edac.net/product-details-233-case-study-6

It may be better to tag them as connector=* rather than socket=* or plug=*
because even experts
(in different fields of the electrical/electronic industry and or different
countries) will disagree on
whether something is a plug or socket.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 01:44, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Wow, what a nightmare!
>

Yep.  New tag needed: nightmare=*.

Here, if a camping ground / caravan park has power to a site, it will be a
> standard layout Oz plug, but rated at 15A, not 10, so you will need a 15A
> lead to connect to it, but that's it!
>

No!  That relies upon the intelligence of the
user to select
the correct lead for the task.  *That* is a a real nightmare.  Don't have
the correct connector?  Tough.
Don't have the correctly-rated cable?  Use the one you have anyway and
watch it catch fire if there's
a fault.  Cable sizes and breaker/fuse ratings/delays are generally
specified that under fault
conditions the cable doesn't catch fire (in fact, the purpose of the
breaker/fuse isn't to protect the
equipment but to protect the cable).  How on earth did they decide to
permit that situation?

Here's another thing to consider.  One day, Oz might decide that 10A/15A
thing is not a good idea
and decide to sanction the use of another type of connector for camp site
hook-ups.  CEE 17 blue
or NEMA 5-15, maybe.  And then, if you know the camp site has power hookups
but don't know the
type...

However we end up tagging these things, we need to allow for "it has a
power hook-up but the
connector type is unknown."

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-22 10:20, Michael Brandtner via Tagging wrote:

> I've found this Wikipedia page: 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorepower 
> 
> There is no shore power tag in OSM yet. But now I'm uncertain if we should 
> also make a difference between shore power and power supply for other uses.

The (intended) usage is a separate concept from the mechanical and
electrical characteristics of the socket/supply. How about
usage=shore_power or usage=vehicle_charging as a start? Shore power for
campers will inevitably be used to recharge large batteries, but maybe
not the traction batteries if it's electrically propelled.___
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Michael Brandtner via Tagging]

I've found this Wikipedia page:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorepower

There is no shore power tag in OSM yet. But now I'm uncertain if we should also 
make a difference between shore power and power supply for other uses. 
 
  Am Fr., Juni 21, 2019 at 14:21 schrieb Michael Brandtner via 
Tagging:   Hi,
I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new tag: 
amenity=power_supply. It is meant for mapping places where you can get 
electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and harbours. 
They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a special card 
that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit cards or even coins, 
I'm not sure about that). 

The tagging scheme for this wouldn't really be new. You create a node at the 
location of the machine, similar how we already map amenity=water_point. For 
additional information about sockets etc., the already established tag 
power_supply=* can be used.
Please note that this is not an amenity=charging_station. These devices are not 
meant for charging vehicles but for getting power for your boat or caravan 
while staying at a harbour or camping ground.
By the way, the tag is not my invention. At the moment, it is already used 56 
times. 

Do you think this is a good idea? I'd like to get your comments before starting 
an actual proposal process.
Michael
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[bkil]

This is what you are looking for, it has been used 160 times:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddevice_charging_station

Although, I'd probably just unify this with amenity=charging_station
and always specify the socket type and voltage. You should only
navigate to a charging station that has a compatible socket anyway.

I usually mark the available sockets using power_supply=* on cafes and
pubs where I can charge my computer or phone without guilt. It can be
useful for both mapping parties and drone photography.

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 6:59 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 22/06/19 11:24, marc marc wrote:
> >> waiting areas often have specific locations
> >> to charge electronic devices.
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aamenity%3Ddevice_charging_station
> >
> >   >  amenity=charging_station <> amenity=power_supply
> >
> > some normal electrical outlets allow cars to be charged
> > and some charging terminals use normal outlets.
> >
> > I think we're gonna to do it in two proposals:
> > - get amenity=power_supply adopted
> > - try to harmonize how the type of socket/plug is described.
> > socket key is probably the most successful but for charging stations,
> > the information is missing if it is a plug or a plug at the end of a
> > cable on the terminal side.
>
> What is really being tagged here?
>
> The socket.
>
> So tag "electrical_socket=USB/*"??
> That clearly says what it is, not a power generating station or some other 
> thing that could be construed in to a 'power supply'.
>
> Add tags access=customers/* fee=no/yes/* and
> for the detailed types of mappers voltage=*, frequency=*.
> The type of socket will usually determine the maximum current/power so I'd 
> not tag that.
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Warin]

On 22/06/19 11:24, marc marc wrote:

waiting areas often have specific locations
to charge electronic devices.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aamenity%3Ddevice_charging_station

  >  amenity=charging_station <> amenity=power_supply

some normal electrical outlets allow cars to be charged
and some charging terminals use normal outlets.

I think we're gonna to do it in two proposals:
- get amenity=power_supply adopted
- try to harmonize how the type of socket/plug is described.
socket key is probably the most successful but for charging stations,
the information is missing if it is a plug or a plug at the end of a
cable on the terminal side.


What is really being tagged here?

The socket.

So tag "electrical_socket=USB/*"??
That clearly says what it is, not a power generating station or some other 
thing that could be construed in to a 'power supply'.

Add tags access=customers/* fee=no/yes/* and
for the detailed types of mappers voltage=*, frequency=*.
The type of socket will usually determine the maximum current/power so I'd not 
tag that.



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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[marc marc]

> waiting areas often have specific locations 
> to charge electronic devices.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aamenity%3Ddevice_charging_station

 >  amenity=charging_station <> amenity=power_supply

some normal electrical outlets allow cars to be charged
and some charging terminals use normal outlets.

I think we're gonna to do it in two proposals:
- get amenity=power_supply adopted
- try to harmonize how the type of socket/plug is described.
socket key is probably the most successful but for charging stations, 
the information is missing if it is a plug or a plug at the end of a 
cable on the terminal side.
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I agree that amenity=power_supply is useful for features that provide
free or paid access to an electrical outlet.

Another place where this would be useful is in airports and train
stations, where the waiting areas often have specific locations to
charge electronic devices.

There might be some confusion with "=charging_station" because
sometimes the facilities at airports are called a "Charging Station"
or similar, but the proposal and wiki page should make it clear when
to use each tag.

I'd recommend making a proposal page to document the tag. I think it's
likely to be approved, if you have the time to spend on it.

On 6/21/19, Michael Brandtner via Tagging  wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new
> tag: amenity=power_supply. It is meant for mapping places where you can get
> electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and
> harbours. They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a
> special card that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit
> cards or even coins, I'm not sure about that).
>
> The tagging scheme for this wouldn't really be new. You create a node at the
> location of the machine, similar how we already map amenity=water_point. For
> additional information about sockets etc., the already established tag
> power_supply=* can be used.
> Please note that this is not an amenity=charging_station. These devices are
> not meant for charging vehicles but for getting power for your boat or
> caravan while staying at a harbour or camping ground.
> By the way, the tag is not my invention. At the moment, it is already used
> 56 times.
>
> Do you think this is a good idea? I'd like to get your comments before
> starting an actual proposal process.
> Michael
>

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Wow, what a nightmare!

Here, if a camping ground / caravan park has power to a site, it will be a
standard layout Oz plug, but rated at 15A, not 10, so you will need a 15A
lead to connect to it, but that's it!

Thanks

Graeme


On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 10:27, Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 23:56, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:53, Paul Allen  wrote:
>>
>>> Having power_supply=yes indicates that the socket type is unknown,
>>>
>>
>> But wouldn't that default as the country you're in? If you're in Britain,
>> it's a British socket, so you need a "British" plug (or an International
>> adaptor!) to plug in, in Australia an Oz socket & so on.
>>
>
> It's not that simple.  Indoors in the UK it's a BS1363 socket.  Outdoors
> on a camp site it will most
> likely be a CEE 17 blue single-phase.  But it's possible you might get CEE
> 17 red three-phase
> in some situations.  I've a vague memory there are other connectors used
> in marine applications.
> Also, although BS1363 connectors are for indoor usage, it's possible to
> get weatherproof
> housings for external use.  So even in just the UK, if a camp site says
> power hook-ups are
> available you can't be sure what connector is used.  Most likely CEE 17
> blue, but maybe not.
>
> Things get worse in Germany and France, as far as the indoor connectors
> go.  See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#CEE_7_standard
> and try to guess what you might get in either country.  I expect they also
> have weatherproof
> housings for external use.
>
> Hence power_supply=yes means there is a hook-up but the mapper doesn't
> know what it is.
>
> --
> Paul
>
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 23:56, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:53, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
>> Having power_supply=yes indicates that the socket type is unknown,
>>
>
> But wouldn't that default as the country you're in? If you're in Britain,
> it's a British socket, so you need a "British" plug (or an International
> adaptor!) to plug in, in Australia an Oz socket & so on.
>

It's not that simple.  Indoors in the UK it's a BS1363 socket.  Outdoors on
a camp site it will most
likely be a CEE 17 blue single-phase.  But it's possible you might get CEE
17 red three-phase
in some situations.  I've a vague memory there are other connectors used in
marine applications.
Also, although BS1363 connectors are for indoor usage, it's possible to get
weatherproof
housings for external use.  So even in just the UK, if a camp site says
power hook-ups are
available you can't be sure what connector is used.  Most likely CEE 17
blue, but maybe not.

Things get worse in Germany and France, as far as the indoor connectors
go.  See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#CEE_7_standard
and try to guess what you might get in either country.  I expect they also
have weatherproof
housings for external use.

Hence power_supply=yes means there is a hook-up but the mapper doesn't know
what it is.

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:53, Paul Allen  wrote:

> Having power_supply=yes indicates that the socket type is unknown,
>

But wouldn't that default as the country you're in? If you're in Britain,
it's a British socket, so you need a "British" plug (or an International
adaptor!) to plug in, in Australia an Oz socket & so on.


> On the gripping hand,
>

No, motes &/or moats, would have to be a different proposal entirely! :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-21 21:15, François Lacombe wrote:

> Le ven. 21 juin 2019 à 20:44, Colin Smale  a écrit : 
> 
>> There is also this tagging scheme for the same thing: 
>> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket 
>> Now how did that happen???
> It's more fun to use socket=* than power_supply:socket_type=* since the only 
> important word is "socket". 
> Power_supply comes in another tag and _type doesn't bring any additionnal 
> information.

> It would be great to sum up this discussion in a wiki page don't you?

Assuming you mean the consolidated consensus that will no doubt result
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 19:44, Colin Smale  wrote:


> There is also this tagging scheme for the same thing:
>
>
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket


Now how did that happen???

It arose via a different route, supporting amenity=charging_station.  We
probably
need to harmonize the naming conventions.  It's likely in future that camp
sites
offering power hook-ups will also offer car charging with all those
specialized
connectors (Tesla, I'm looking at you).

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[François Lacombe]

Le ven. 21 juin 2019 à 20:44, Colin Smale  a écrit :

>
> There is also this tagging scheme for the same thing:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket
>
> Now how did that happen???
>

It's more fun to use socket=* than power_supply:socket_type=* since the
only important word is "socket".
Power_supply comes in another tag and _type doesn't bring any additionnal
information.

It would be great to sum up this discussion in a wiki page don't you?

François
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Valor Naram via Tagging]

> Looks good to me, except that the tag name should really be something like "power_supply:socket_type" rather than the over-generic "power_supply".+1___
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[François Lacombe]

Hi

Le ven. 21 juin 2019 à 16:18, Philip Barnes  a écrit :

> On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:49 +0200, Jan S wrote:
> > Would such a tag fit for e-car charging stations, too, or can we
> > already tag those? These charging stations basically provide
> > electricity for money, too, don't they?
> We already map those see
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=charging%20station?uselang=en
>
> Slightly different in that you would navigate to one if you need to
> charge your car. You would not go to a campsite to charge your phone,
> but power can be a consideration when choosing somewhere to camp.
>

We have to be sure to don't confuse sites vs devices : a charging station
may have several power supplies with different capacities and standards.

As I understand above proposal, such a power supply would have a single
voltage, socket standard and current capacity (additionnaly a single fare
policy).

This would be great to have a single tag for power supplies, including
e-vehicle charging station, camp sites and for outside markets
Cities often roll out some supplies in streets to feed fridge trucks or
electric ovens

Capacity and usage capabilities may be given in other keys than amenity=*

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Colin Smale  wrote:

> On 2019-06-21 18:33, Paul Allen wrote:
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 17:06, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard
>> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not
>> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and
>> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few
>> examples: the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in
>> France/Belgium it is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E.
>>
>>
> Are you suggesting replacing the scheme here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply
> or is that OK with you?
>
>
> Looks good to me,
>

If I'm not misunderstanding things, that key never went through a proposal
process.  But it looks
like a reasonable foundation and has been used in the wild.  I suggest we
try to fix up any
problems and do something with it, rather than re-invent the wheel.  Also
incorporate the USB
idea from its talk page - some cafes/airport lounges/trains/buses now offer
USB sockets.


> except that the tag name should really be something
> like "power_supply:socket_type" rather than the over-generic "power_supply".
>

I'm in three minds about that.  There's no sense in power_supply=no +
power_supply:socket_type=europlug.  Having power_supply=yes indicates that
the socket
type is unknown, having power_supply=europlug is all that's needed.  OTOH,
having
power_supply:socket_type is consistent with the tags for power, voltage and
frequency.  On
the gripping hand, the recent proposal here was for amenity=power_supply,
so power_supply=
yes|no becomes unnecessary.


> I am please to see that frequency and voltage are covered, as is maximum
> current. Not sure polyphase supplies are fully covered though. Only one
> socket type is described as 3-phase; there is at least one other type, and
> that also seems to accommodate USA split-phase as well:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309#Blue_3P+N+E,_9h
>

It wouldn't be impossible to add all the wikipedia socket types to it.  And
would be a good idea.

The question is what formal process (if any) do we use to amend the draft
and take it to a vote.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-21 19:57, Colin Smale wrote:

> On 2019-06-21 18:33, Paul Allen wrote: 
> 
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 17:06, Colin Smale  wrote: 
> 
> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard 
> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not 
> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and 
> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few examples: 
> the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in France/Belgium it 
> is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E. 
> Are you suggesting replacing the scheme here: 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply 
> or is that OK with you?

Looks good to me, except that the tag name should really be something
like "power_supply:socket_type" rather than the over-generic
"power_supply". I am please to see that frequency and voltage are
covered, as is maximum current. Not sure polyphase supplies are fully
covered though. Only one socket type is described as 3-phase; there is
at least one other type, and that also seems to accommodate USA
split-phase as well: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309#Blue_3P+N+E,_9h 

There is also this tagging scheme for the same thing: 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket 

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-21 18:33, Paul Allen wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 17:06, Colin Smale  wrote: 
> 
>> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard 
>> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not 
>> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and 
>> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few examples: 
>> the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in France/Belgium 
>> it is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E.
> 
> Are you suggesting replacing the scheme here: 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply 
> or is that OK with you?

Looks good to me, except that the tag name should really be something
like "power_supply:socket_type" rather than the over-generic
"power_supply". I am please to see that frequency and voltage are
covered, as is maximum current. Not sure polyphase supplies are fully
covered though. Only one socket type is described as 3-phase; there is
at least one other type, and that also seems to accommodate USA
split-phase as well: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309#Blue_3P+N+E,_9h___
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Philip Barnes]

On Friday, 21 June 2019, Colin Smale wrote:
> On 2019-06-21 14:18, Michael Brandtner via Tagging wrote:
> 
> > I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new 
> > tag: _amenity=power_supply_. It is meant for mapping places where you can 
> > get electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and 
> > harbours. They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a 
> > special card that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit 
> > cards or even coins, I'm not sure about that).
> 
> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing
> standard such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the
> socket, not for the plug; some combinations have a measure of
> cross-compatibility, and you don't want to mix that up in the tagging
> for the socket. A few examples: the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at
> least) use Type G, in France/Belgium it is type F, in the Netherlands it
> is type E. 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets 
> 
> For higher-power connections, the standard to follow is IEC 60309: 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_6030

Although in the case of campsites both the UK and France in my experience use 
the same IP44 rated 16A connectors.

I use the same cables both sides of the channel.

It would be a very bad idea to use standard indoor power sockets in that 
situation.

Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Fr., 21. Juni 2019 um 18:06 Uhr schrieb Colin Smale <
colin.sm...@xs4all.nl>:

> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard
> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not
> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and
> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few
> examples: the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in
> France/Belgium it is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
>


I find it still incredible how mankind did not manage to uniform socket
types in more than 100 years of electrification and maybe 30-40 years of
globalization

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Paul Allen]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 17:06, Colin Smale  wrote:

> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard
> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not
> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and
> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few
> examples: the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in
> France/Belgium it is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E.
>
> Are you suggesting replacing the scheme here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply
or is that OK with you?

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-21 18:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> Am Fr., 21. Juni 2019 um 18:06 Uhr schrieb Colin Smale 
> : 
> 
>> When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing standard 
>> such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the socket, not 
>> for the plug; some combinations have a measure of cross-compatibility, and 
>> you don't want to mix that up in the tagging for the socket. A few examples: 
>> the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at least) use Type G, in France/Belgium 
>> it is type F, in the Netherlands it is type E. 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
> 
> I find it still incredible how mankind did not manage to uniform socket types 
> in more than 100 years of electrification and maybe 30-40 years of 
> globalization

We would need agreement on frequency/voltage first, to avoid dangerous
and expensive errors It's too late for that now. No way will the
Americans adopt our 230V/50Hz system. We can't even get them to use
Celcius/metres/kilograms.___
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Colin Smale]

On 2019-06-21 14:18, Michael Brandtner via Tagging wrote:

> I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new 
> tag: _amenity=power_supply_. It is meant for mapping places where you can get 
> electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and 
> harbours. They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a 
> special card that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit cards 
> or even coins, I'm not sure about that).

When it comes to tagging the socket type, please use an existing
standard such as the IEC type letters. Make sure to use the code for the
socket, not for the plug; some combinations have a measure of
cross-compatibility, and you don't want to mix that up in the tagging
for the socket. A few examples: the UK, Ireland, Malta, Singapore (at
least) use Type G, in France/Belgium it is type F, in the Netherlands it
is type E. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets 

For higher-power connections, the standard to follow is IEC 60309: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309___
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Fr., 21. Juni 2019 um 17:09 Uhr schrieb Jan S :

>
>
> If these sockets are typically located at caravan parking spots in
> campgrounds, wouldn't it be sufficient to add a sub-tag to the proposed tag
> tourism=camp_pitch? Btw, voting for that tag is underway until 28 June
> here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_pitch



they may be located there sometimes, but often I have seen they are simply
putting an extension cord from whereever there is the installed plug, to
the pitch where power is needed. For camping sites it may make more sense
to generally state availability of power, because it doesn't depend (only)
on static outlet positions. Of course you will often have the situation
that some areas may have electrical power and others not (or only if you
are a group of 100 people and requiring it).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Jan S]

Am 21. Juni 2019 16:29:02 MESZ schrieb Michael Brandtner via Tagging 
:
>The sub-tag does already exist, I've linked to it in my original post
>(power_supply=). What doesn't exist is a main tag for tagging isolated
>columns for power supply.
>This image shows what I'm talking about:
>https://www.alamy.de/outdoor-steckdosen-mit-sicherheitsschalter-auf-blau-metall-pol-fur-die-stromversorgung-von-kleinen-booten-im-hafen-umgeben-mit-konkreten-fliese-montiert-image233468696.html
>
Thanks, now I know what you mean.
>
>
>Am Freitag, 21. Juni 2019, 16:17:48 MESZ hat Philip Barnes
> Folgendes geschrieben:  
> 
> On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:49 +0200, Jan S wrote:
>> 
>> Am 21. Juni 2019 15:25:06 MESZ schrieb Philip Barnes <
>> p...@trigpoint.me.uk>:
>> > On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 16:07 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
>> > > Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
>> > > amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a
>> > > sub
>> > > tag, or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.
>> > 
>> > The position is useful information, you may need to know if your
>> > cable
>> > is long enough.

If these sockets are typically located at caravan parking spots in campgrounds, 
wouldn't it be sufficient to add a sub-tag to the proposed tag 
tourism=camp_pitch? Btw, voting for that tag is underway until 28 June here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_pitch

Best, Jan

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Michael Brandtner via Tagging]

 The sub-tag does already exist, I've linked to it in my original post 
(power_supply=). What doesn't exist is a main tag for tagging isolated columns 
for power supply.
This image shows what I'm talking about:
 
https://www.alamy.de/outdoor-steckdosen-mit-sicherheitsschalter-auf-blau-metall-pol-fur-die-stromversorgung-von-kleinen-booten-im-hafen-umgeben-mit-konkreten-fliese-montiert-image233468696.html








Am Freitag, 21. Juni 2019, 16:17:48 MESZ hat Philip Barnes 
 Folgendes geschrieben:  
 
 On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:49 +0200, Jan S wrote:
> 
> Am 21. Juni 2019 15:25:06 MESZ schrieb Philip Barnes <
> p...@trigpoint.me.uk>:
> > On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 16:07 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
> > > Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
> > > amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a
> > > sub
> > > tag, or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.
> > 
> > The position is useful information, you may need to know if your
> > cable
> > is long enough.
> 
> Would such a tag fit for e-car charging stations, too, or can we
> already tag those? These charging stations basically provide
> electricity for money, too, don't they?
We already map those see 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=charging%20station?uselang=en

Slightly different in that you would navigate to one if you need to
charge your car. You would not go to a campsite to charge your phone,
but power can be a consideration when choosing somewhere to camp.

Although power available sub-tagging could be applied to lots of
objects. Pubs, Cafes and Railway Stations provide power for customers
to charge mobile phones and laptops, most will provide mains but many
now have USB connectors so you only need to carry a cable.

Phil (trigpoint)



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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:49 +0200, Jan S wrote:
> 
> Am 21. Juni 2019 15:25:06 MESZ schrieb Philip Barnes <
> p...@trigpoint.me.uk>:
> > On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 16:07 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
> > > Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
> > > amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a
> > > sub
> > > tag, or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.
> > 
> > The position is useful information, you may need to know if your
> > cable
> > is long enough.
> 
> Would such a tag fit for e-car charging stations, too, or can we
> already tag those? These charging stations basically provide
> electricity for money, too, don't they?
We already map those see 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=charging%20station?uselang=en

Slightly different in that you would navigate to one if you need to
charge your car. You would not go to a campsite to charge your phone,
but power can be a consideration when choosing somewhere to camp.

Although power available sub-tagging could be applied to lots of
objects. Pubs, Cafes and Railway Stations provide power for customers
to charge mobile phones and laptops, most will provide mains but many
now have USB connectors so you only need to carry a cable.

Phil (trigpoint)



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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Jan S]

Am 21. Juni 2019 15:25:06 MESZ schrieb Philip Barnes :
>On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 16:07 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
>> Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
>> amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a sub
>> tag, or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.
>
>The position is useful information, you may need to know if your cable
>is long enough.

Would such a tag fit for e-car charging stations, too, or can we already tag 
those? These charging stations basically provide electricity for money, too, 
don't they?

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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 16:07 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
> Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
> amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a sub
> tag, or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.

The position is useful information, you may need to know if your cable
is long enough.

Last summer on one French site our pitch was too far from the hookup
for our 16A cable, but fortunately the site was able to loan us one for
our stay.

European sites all seem to use standard IP44 rated 16A connections.

Phil (trigpoint)



> 
> пт, 21 июн. 2019 г. в 15:46, Philip Barnes :
> > On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:33 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
> > > I am surprised this is not something that exists already (or is
> > > it?)Wouldn't limit it to caravans though, would be equally useful
> > > for those looking to charge electronics or power a tool of some
> > > sort.
> > > Or is that power_supply?
> > > 
> > Certainly not limited to Caravans, we use electrical hookups on
> > camp sites with our tent.
> > 
> > This is not free, it is part of the charge for using the campsite,
> > some will have pitches with power available or not, others will
> > come and fit a circuit breaker if you pay for it.
> > 
> > In the case of camp sites, should this not be a sub-tag of the
> > campsite pitch proposal?
> > 
> > Phil (trigpoint)
> > ___
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> > 
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Anton Klim]

Guess it could be the same as fuel stations/hotels etc with extra
amenities: high-level tagging on the whole campsite pitch with a sub tag,
or nodes on actual power sockets for more detail.


пт, 21 июн. 2019 г. в 15:46, Philip Barnes :

> On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:33 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
>
> I am surprised this is not something that exists already (or is it?)
> Wouldn't limit it to caravans though, would be equally useful for those
> looking to charge electronics or power a tool of some sort.
> Or is that power_supply?
>
> Certainly not limited to Caravans, we use electrical hookups on camp sites
> with our tent.
>
> This is not free, it is part of the charge for using the campsite, some
> will have pitches with power available or not, others will come and fit a
> circuit breaker if you pay for it.
>
> In the case of camp sites, should this not be a sub-tag of the campsite
> pitch proposal?
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 21.06.2019 um 14:18 schrieb Michael Brandtner via Tagging 
> :
> 
> I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new 
> tag: amenity=power_supply. It is meant for mapping places where you can get 
> electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and 
> harbours. They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a 
> special card that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit cards 
> or even coins, I'm not sure about that).


this could be differentiated by voltage and detailed with plug types (there’s 
already a scheme from the vehicle charging stations).
Eg. for usb outlets for mobile phone charging, bicycle charging, etc.

Not sure the Ampere are interesting as well.

If there’s a fee or not should not be implicit, there is the “fee” tag for this.


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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:33 +0300, Anton Klim wrote:
> I am surprised this is not something that exists already (or is
> it?)Wouldn't limit it to caravans though, would be equally useful for
> those looking to charge electronics or power a tool of some sort.
> Or is that power_supply?
> 
Certainly not limited to Caravans, we use electrical hookups on camp
sites with our tent.

This is not free, it is part of the charge for using the campsite, some
will have pitches with power available or not, others will come and fit
a circuit breaker if you pay for it.

In the case of camp sites, should this not be a sub-tag of the campsite
pitch proposal?

Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: [Tagging] Idea for a new tag: amenity=power_supply

[Anton Klim]

I am surprised this is not something that exists already (or is it?)
Wouldn't limit it to caravans though, would be equally useful for those
looking to charge electronics or power a tool of some sort.
Or is that power_supply?

Ant

пт, 21 июн. 2019 г. в 15:22, Michael Brandtner via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org>:

> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking about (and in fact, have already used about two times) a new
> tag: *amenity=power_supply*. It is meant for mapping places where you can
> get electrical power for a fee. They can be found at camping grounds and
> harbours. They have sockets you can use to get power and you can pay with a
> special card that you can buy at a shop (or maybe sometimes with credit
> cards or even coins, I'm not sure about that).
>
> The tagging scheme for this wouldn't really be new. You create a node at
> the location of the machine, similar how we already map
> amenity=water_point. For additional information about sockets etc., the
> already established tag power_supply=*
> can be used.
>
> Please note that this is not an amenity=charging_station. These devices
> are not meant for charging vehicles but for getting power for your boat or
> caravan while staying at a harbour or camping ground.
>
> By the way, the tag is not my invention. At the moment, it is already used
> 56 times.
>
> Do you think this is a good idea? I'd like to get your comments before
> starting an actual proposal process.
>
> Michael
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