RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Joseph Norton via Talk]

Hi Russ and listers:

All I can say is that I am running window-eyes with the latest Windows 10
Insider build 16299 and no major problems.

There are a couple issues where WE doesn't seem to read the screen when
reviewing it.  WE 9.54 still browses the Web ok, for the most part.

Once the Fall Creator's update comes out, it will be easier to figure out
what's still working and what no longer works well.  For a while, even with
the regular build of Windows 10, WE stopped working with MicroSoft's Mail
program for Windows.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+joseph.norton=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Russ Kiehne 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Speaking of Window Eyes, does anyone happen to know if it will work with
next weeks release of windows 10 fall update?

-Original Message-
From: net bat via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:51 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

because f s had all the money to throw around to permote there products  and
to businesses and schools. few even heard of window eyes and were not
willing to use a product they never heard of. if they knew window eyes
worked most of the time right out of the box without scripts years ago they
would of dropped jaws in a heart beat. they could of saved thousands of
dollars because they would not of had to pay script righters to get there
software working.

-Original Message-
From: Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even some
here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues and
some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better on Jaws.  Of
course, that is a separate issue from other issues involving the overall
stability of each reader.

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the 
> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing, 
> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website, 
> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down 
> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find 
> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I 
> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a 
> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they 
> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention 
> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff, 
> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and 
> Narrator do.
>
> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my 
> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will 
> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2 
> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>
> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
> ___
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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>
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msn.com.
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Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[peter Chin via Talk]

Hello David,

Does Chrome work with WE or only Jaws?




Thanks for your tutorial.

-Original Message- 
From: David Moore via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 5:31 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: David Moore
Subject: RE: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

Hi Tom!
I use Chrome all of the time! It is easier to use, much faster at
downloading files, and streaming media. It is very accessible. I can send
you a tutorial on using the Chrome browser!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 5:04 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Kevin Huber
Subject: Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

Hi Tom:

I find that I am using it more and more often these days.
Give it a try!  You might be pleasantly surprised.


On 10/2/17, Tom Kingston via Talk  wrote:

Has anyone given Chrome a serious look? I've never even tried it. So I'm
curious as to whether I should even bother.

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: Need Help From WinAmp Experts

[peter Chin via Talk]

Hello Larry,

Sorry for not having written to you as promised. I have been bogged down 
with other things and, have to admit it, just forgot.


I tried to follow your instructions by pressing alt+shift+k but couldn't 
find how to adjust the volume of individual channels.


Thanks any way.
-Original Message- 
From: Larry Higgins via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:12 PM
To: peter Chin via Talk
Cc: Larry Higgins
Subject: Re: Need Help From WinAmp Experts

Peter, I saw your previous queries concerning Winamp, but saw it a day
after it was originally posted, so thought someone might have already
answered your questions. I will try to answer the questions I think I
can, and leave the rest to those who might be more expert on the rest.


When it comes to balancing channels, just press alt+shift+k while
playing an audio file or stream and you will be in business.


To read the title, press ctrl+shift+t.


When it comes to the volume with MIDI files, the only thing I might
suggest is to turn on your equalizer alt+g, then ctrl+tab to focus on
it, and then use your preamp settings, and turn them all the way up.
This will only work using a screen reader, particularly Window-Eyes if
you have the Winamp scripts installed. Otherwise, the equalizer is
almost impossible to work with  by a blind user.


Your Winamp keys are tab for turning down the volume of the preamp, and
grave accent for increasing the volume.

 Turning the equalizer up is not the answer in every situation, because
on some files, turning it full blast can cause a lot of unwanted
distortion.


Now, after having said all that, I'm not really sure if the equalizer
will work with MIDI files, because I haven't played around with those
things for many a year, but it can't hurt to give it a try.


To save the settings permanently, while in the equalizer, press the
letter s, and you will see an option to save presets. Give those
settings that you have just made to a file with a name of your choosing,
and if you wish to use those settings again, you can reload them at any
time you like. The file will be placed in the list of the various
settings that Winamp makes available.



HTH,

Larry

On 9/25/2017 5:37 AM, peter Chin via Talk wrote:

Hello all,


I have a few questions about WinAmp which I hope the experts can help me

with.


1. I notice that when playing an audio file in Winamp, one channel sounds

just a little softer than the other. This is not the case when I play the

same file in Windows Media  player. Is there any way I can adjust the 
volume


of

each channel individually?


2. While playing an audio file in Winamp, is there a key stroke I can use 
to


read the title of the file?


3. When I play a MIDI file in my collection, the volume drops to very low

even though Winamp shows that I am playing the file at 100% volume. I can 
go


to the System tray and crank up the volume, but as soon as the file is

played, the volume drops when I play the file again. This behaviour 
doesn't


happen when I play MIDI files on line. What can I do to make  the volume

setting permanent?


4. I have heard that WinAmp can be used to play flash player files on

YouTube. Is this true and how is it done if it is so?



My OS is Windows 8.1. I am using the "free" version  of Window-Eyes 9.5.4

and I have both the WinAmp apps from Rod and Geoff Bishop. My WinAmp 
version


is 5.666.



Thanks in advance for any suggestions.



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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

I could not switch to a mac all the time. I would miss my favorite audio 
games such as eurofly flight simulator, survive the wild by Sam Tupy, 
and RedSpot audio game among others. so I need windows.




On 10/11/2017 6:01 PM, David Moore via Talk wrote:

Hi Rod!
I really want to try one, because I only know Windows. I like trying something 
new all of the time. Where can you play around with one in a store or somewhere 
else? Now, is Voice over the same on the MacBook as it is on the iPhone? Do you 
have a desktop with icons on it like with Windows? How is the contents arranged 
compared to Windows?
I would really like to hear more about the MacBook!
Is it a laptop, tablet, or another type of device altogether? Is a MacBook the 
size of most laptops, or smaller or what? How much is it, because I heard they 
are expensive. How does it compare to a ChromeBook. Is a ChromeBook as 
accessible? Google says they are accessible.
This is so great to be able to talk all technology on here!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 5:46 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Rod Hutton
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Hi Brenda,

Starting to hate computers is the main reason why I decided to buy a MacBook 
Pro a few weeks bac,.
The way Apple designs their operating systems, making them more human< I would 
say, it is actually a pleasure to use them.
In particular, once you see how the macOS works, it is truly fun, very 
accessible, and, oddly enough, you seem to be led to focus on what you need.
You really have to try one to see what I mean.
If you get the chance, try one out.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: October 11, 2017 3:02 PM
To: Nick Sarames via Talk 
Cc: Brenda 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

I think crawling into a hole is a great idea. I'm really starting to
hate computers.
Brenda

On 10/10/2017 1:38 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

The consensus seems to be that WE, overall, is better.  I have yet to
use Jaws, but the more I read here, the more I realize that we each have
different systems and needs.  So while you can't seem to pay your credit
card, others can.  And while you can do certain things, others can't.  I
think I'll just craw into a hole.

On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:

you might as well junk it now.
2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
work as good.
i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
be jaws compatible doesn't work.
window eyes works fine.
money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
been f s that would be out of business now.

-Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
Cc: Bob Tinney
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Chuck,


I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.

Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:

Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

now they just have to make that $120 jaws a publically available 
purchase option, available to be taken advantage of all the time.



On 10/11/2017 3:22 PM, Brenda via Talk wrote:
VFO made a proposal to AI Squared AFTER AI Squared had acquired 
GW-Micro.  I kinda wonder if AI Squared was told by VFO to get GW 
first in order to become a part of the VFO family. Nothing will ever 
be proven


As for jaws being better than NVDA, that may be a matter of opinion. I 
know an adaptive tech person that liked NVDA before Window-eyes was 
eliminated.  Maybe he suspected W-e was on the way out. Nonetheless he 
said positive things about NVDA not jaws.


As pointed out before it is good to have multiple screen readers. This 
is probably more necessary since Window-Eyes is waning.


. Brenda
On 10/11/2017 2:47 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
Jaws is a very good screen reader and it's better than NVDA 
unfortunately one of the two products had to go.  VFO made a proposal 
to AI Squared to merge they didn't have to do that they chose to so 
being bitter to the makers of Jaws really serves nothing.

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Jim via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Jim
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Hi THERE!

While I agree that Jaws could do more especially now that they have 
acquired Window-Eyes I haven't had a real issue with Jaws. I can read 
from the current line to the end of a document simply by pressing the 
'insert+the down arrow key.  I wonder what programs you are actually 
having issues with using Jaws? Yes, I use W.E. for many years and was 
sad to see it go, but I haven't really found any major issues with 
Jaws either. Wonder if you might give some specifics as to where your 
issues have been? I use Thunderbird, Office 2007 notepad, Internet 
Explorer, Firefox, Chrome  and several other programs regularly and I 
really don't seem to have any real problems with.  Of course, I kept 
Window-Eyes on my computer a long with Narrator and NVDA so if I have 
issues with one screen reader I can fall back onto another that will 
more than likely work.  As I have already said, I probably liked 
Window-Eye the best of all of them, but since Window-Eyes appears to 
be gone for the most part, I will simply have to make do with 
whatever I can use and the best of the remaining screen readers is 
still Jaws at least that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to 
their own opinion.  I will continue to use Window-Eyes when I 
need to, at least until the windows updates render it unusable.  Have 
A good 1! de


.s


On 10-Oct-17 15:00, Charles Adkins via Talk wrote:

it doesn’t seem like they affect products for the disabled does it?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Tony C via Talk 
 wrote:


No, but maybe Brainwashed. I quit using Jawws in 2004 because WE 
worked better with stuff I needed. Now Jaws still doesn't work well 
with a lot of very common programs.


-Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:42 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better
on Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues
involving the overall stability of each reader.


On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery
Website, when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down
continuously down the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do.
I also find Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am
not whining, I am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with
trashing a product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the
product they trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not
to mention charging so much for the product. Don't give me that
similar stuff, because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't
work and NVDA and Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others
will be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a
2 thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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RE: Worth reading

[David Moore via Talk]

Hey Reeva!
I loved this video. I totally agree with everything that was talked about in 
this great video. I have always said that small is better, because it creates 
competition. I was heart broken in 2000, when Freedom Scientific formed. I do 
not like the idea of large corporations at all. I frequent a small eating place 
as much as I can, and I hate that I have to shop at Walmart, because it is so 
cheap. Small business really is the back bone of this country!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brenda via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Reeva Webb via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Worth reading

Hey Reeva

Thanks for sharing the link - now I don't feel so bad - and fellow 
Window-Eyes users we are not alone.

I was going to say I used jaws successfully and with better success to 
view the video, but then I tried to reply to this email and jaws froze 
and I had to shut it down and restart it.

Thanks again Reeva for sharing.
Brenda

On 10/11/2017 6:53 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
> I'm just gonna leave this here. Any of this sound familiar?
> 
> https://youtu.be/00wQYmvfhn4
> 
> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
> 
> Reeva
> 
> On Oct 11, 2017 5:40 AM, "Charles Adkins via Talk" <
> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> 
>> let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what
>> merge is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws.
>> My point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws
>> in both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader
>> unlike anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they
>> just trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk <
>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>
>>> As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and
>> will be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it
>> should Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
>>> I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office
>> support for NVDA is a high priority.
>>> We'll keep everyone posted.
>>> As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail.com@lists.
>> window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
>>> Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>>> Cc: Josh Kennedy 
>>> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>>>
>>> oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother
>>> buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office
>>> support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
 you might as well junk it now.
 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
 f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
 work as good.
 i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
 be jaws compatible doesn't work.
 window eyes works fine.
 money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
 been f s that would be out of business now.

 -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
 To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
 Cc: Bob Tinney
 Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

 Chuck,


 I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
 to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.

 Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net

> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
> Narrator do.
>
> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
> thousand dollar scree

RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Steve Jacobson via Talk]

If we are going to be fair about this discussion, VFO can't just throw the
Window-Eyes code into JAWS.  I also think it is reasonable to keep in mind
the fact that they really wanted ZoomText so probably didn't give a lot of
thought about Window-Eyes.  It's likely nobody cried at VFO over the idea of
Window-Eyes being discontinued, and I think Freedom Scientific's lawsuits
were unjustified and clearly a means to crush competition.  However, a case
can easily be made that NVDA did quite a lot to cut into business that would
have gone to Window-Eyes as well.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing
NVDA, it wasn't their intent, but a good free screen reader cut into
perspective Window-Eyes customers more than JAWS customers because
Window-Eyes had worked hard to work with customers on a budget.  The Office
offer, the Lease to Own approach, and the slightly lower price was aimed at
individuals rather than agencies.  As nice as those programs were, it was
easier for many of those people to go to NVDA which has become a respectable
screen reader.

It is really hard these days to make a claim that any screen reader is the
best.  It depends so much upon on how one uses it.  I have moved to JAWS
because there are programs that I use at work for which JAWS works well, as
did Window-Eyes, but where NVDA did not work well.  There are still things
about Window-Eyes that I like better, but I am getting used to the different
way JAWS handles certain things.  Certainly, many people will find that NVDA
does everything they need.  I find JAWS more responsive in some instances,
but that isn't going to be important to everybody.  In short, certainly I
will continue to miss some of the things that Window-Eyes did, but one can
manage to make the change if one has to.  What I hope to never forget are
the people who were behind Window-Eyes, the developers and the customer
support people.  I will always believe that if finances and market pressures
would have been different than what they were and if Window-Eyes had gotten
a few breaks along the way, Window-Eyes would have emerged as the superior
screen reader.

We are in a changing environment.  JAWS is going to have to change some if
NVDA continues to gain strength and if Microsoft continues to make
improvements to Narrator.  It costs somebody a good deal of money to keep
screen readers stable and up-to-date, whether it is SMA's donations, or
corporate funding in the case of Microsoft.  Those who say NVDA is free are
not being honest with themselves.  It means someone else is paying for their
ability to have a free screen reader, even if there is some voluntary
efforts involved.  We should be thankful this is the case but we need to
also be aware of it.  I used Window-Eyes on the job for almost twenty years,
and some have used JAWS longer.  To work efficiently in an employment
setting, one needs a very stable program, and changes cut into ones
productivity.  I am some concerned about what will be happening over the
next five or ten years, because I don't think we have finished with changes
to access technology.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
  
-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:31 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

I think reserving
 Judgment until after the jaws 2018 cycle is complete and jaws2019 is out.
You don't know what they have planned for the year.  They may have had the
first features planned for a while possible before the got window Eyes.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Charles Adkins via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:41 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Charles Adkins
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what merge
is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws. My
point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws in
both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader unlike
anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they just
trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk
 wrote:
> 
> Hi Josh,
> 
> As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and 
> will
be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it should
Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
> I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office
support for NVDA is a high priority.
> We'll keep everyone posted.
> As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On

RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[David Moore via Talk]

Hi Rod!
I really want to try one, because I only know Windows. I like trying something 
new all of the time. Where can you play around with one in a store or somewhere 
else? Now, is Voice over the same on the MacBook as it is on the iPhone? Do you 
have a desktop with icons on it like with Windows? How is the contents arranged 
compared to Windows?
I would really like to hear more about the MacBook!
Is it a laptop, tablet, or another type of device altogether? Is a MacBook the 
size of most laptops, or smaller or what? How much is it, because I heard they 
are expensive. How does it compare to a ChromeBook. Is a ChromeBook as 
accessible? Google says they are accessible.
This is so great to be able to talk all technology on here!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 5:46 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Rod Hutton
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Hi Brenda,

Starting to hate computers is the main reason why I decided to buy a MacBook 
Pro a few weeks bac,.
The way Apple designs their operating systems, making them more human< I would 
say, it is actually a pleasure to use them.
In particular, once you see how the macOS works, it is truly fun, very 
accessible, and, oddly enough, you seem to be led to focus on what you need.
You really have to try one to see what I mean.
If you get the chance, try one out.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: October 11, 2017 3:02 PM
To: Nick Sarames via Talk 
Cc: Brenda 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

I think crawling into a hole is a great idea. I'm really starting to 
hate computers.
Brenda

On 10/10/2017 1:38 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> The consensus seems to be that WE, overall, is better.  I have yet to
> use Jaws, but the more I read here, the more I realize that we each have
> different systems and needs.  So while you can't seem to pay your credit
> card, others can.  And while you can do certain things, others can't.  I
> think I'll just craw into a hole.
> 
> On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> you might as well junk it now.
>> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
>> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
>> work as good.
>> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
>> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
>> window eyes works fine.
>> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
>> been f s that would be out of business now.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
>> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
>> Cc: Bob Tinney
>> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>>
>> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
>> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
>>
>> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>>
>> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
>>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
>>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
>>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
>>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
>>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
>>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
>>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
>>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
>>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
>>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
>>> Narrator do.
>>>
>>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
>>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
>>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
>>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tinneyb%40charter.net.
>>>
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window

RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Brenda,

Starting to hate computers is the main reason why I decided to buy a MacBook 
Pro a few weeks bac,.
The way Apple designs their operating systems, making them more human< I would 
say, it is actually a pleasure to use them.
In particular, once you see how the macOS works, it is truly fun, very 
accessible, and, oddly enough, you seem to be led to focus on what you need.
You really have to try one to see what I mean.
If you get the chance, try one out.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: October 11, 2017 3:02 PM
To: Nick Sarames via Talk 
Cc: Brenda 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

I think crawling into a hole is a great idea. I'm really starting to 
hate computers.
Brenda

On 10/10/2017 1:38 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> The consensus seems to be that WE, overall, is better.  I have yet to
> use Jaws, but the more I read here, the more I realize that we each have
> different systems and needs.  So while you can't seem to pay your credit
> card, others can.  And while you can do certain things, others can't.  I
> think I'll just craw into a hole.
> 
> On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> you might as well junk it now.
>> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
>> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
>> work as good.
>> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
>> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
>> window eyes works fine.
>> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
>> been f s that would be out of business now.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
>> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
>> Cc: Bob Tinney
>> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>>
>> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
>> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
>>
>> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>>
>> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
>>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
>>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
>>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
>>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
>>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
>>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
>>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
>>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
>>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
>>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
>>> Narrator do.
>>>
>>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
>>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
>>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
>>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tinneyb%40charter.net.
>>>
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net.
>>
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/nicksarames%40msn.com.
>>
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> .
>>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai S

RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I think reserving
 Judgment until after the jaws 2018 cycle is complete and jaws2019 is out.
You don't know what they have planned for the year.  They may have had the
first features planned for a while possible before the got window Eyes.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Charles Adkins via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:41 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Charles Adkins
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what merge
is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws. My
point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws in
both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader unlike
anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they just
trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk
 wrote:
> 
> Hi Josh,
> 
> As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and will
be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it should
Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
> I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office
support for NVDA is a high priority.
> We'll keep everyone posted.
> As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Cc: Josh Kennedy 
> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
> 
> oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother 
> buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office 
> support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> you might as well junk it now.
>> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
>> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still 
>> doesn't work as good.
>> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose 
>> to be jaws compatible doesn't work.
>> window eyes works fine.
>> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would 
>> of been f s that would be out of business now.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
>> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
>> Cc: Bob Tinney
>> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>> 
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I 
>> have to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
>> 
>> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>> 
>>> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the 
>>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing, 
>>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery 
>>> Website, when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down 
>>> continuously down the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. 
>>> I also find Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am 
>>> not whining, I am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with 
>>> trashing a product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the 
>>> product they trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not 
>>> to mention charging so much for the product. Don't give me that 
>>> similar stuff, because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't 
>>> work and NVDA and Narrator do.
>>> 
>>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my 
>>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others 
>>> will be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 
>>> 2 thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of 
>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>> 
>>> For membership options, visit
>>>
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tinneyb%40char
ter.net.
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> 
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>> 
>> For membership options, visit
>>
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comca
st.net.
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List arc

Worth reading

[Brenda via Talk]

Hey Reeva

Thanks for sharing the link - now I don't feel so bad - and fellow 
Window-Eyes users we are not alone.


I was going to say I used jaws successfully and with better success to 
view the video, but then I tried to reply to this email and jaws froze 
and I had to shut it down and restart it.


Thanks again Reeva for sharing.
Brenda

On 10/11/2017 6:53 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:

I'm just gonna leave this here. Any of this sound familiar?

https://youtu.be/00wQYmvfhn4

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Oct 11, 2017 5:40 AM, "Charles Adkins via Talk" <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:


let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what
merge is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws.
My point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws
in both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader
unlike anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they
just trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk <

talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:


Hi Josh,

As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and

will be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it
should Window-Eyes no longer suffice.

I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office

support for NVDA is a high priority.

We'll keep everyone posted.
As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail.com@lists.

window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk

Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Josh Kennedy 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother
buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office
support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?




On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
you might as well junk it now.
2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
work as good.
i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
be jaws compatible doesn't work.
window eyes works fine.
money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
been f s that would be out of business now.

-Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
Cc: Bob Tinney
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Chuck,


I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.

Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net


On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.

com/tinneyb%40charter.net.

For subscription options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.

com/netbat%40comcast.net.

For subscription options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at
http://lists.window-eyes.c

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[net bat via Talk]

for me opening another ff window didn't workwith window eyes 9.5.

-Original Message- 
From: Brenda via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:57 AM
To: Rod Hutton via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

I accidentally upgraded FF when I was dealing with Viper. so now I'm at
56.01 64 bit (sp).

someone on this list suggested opening FF then opening it again in a new
window.  I did this and things are working (h) I even shut down
my pc and restarted it - still Window-eyes is working.

However, I'm using jowls to write this email and am primarily using
jowls because eventually Window-Eyes will not work.

It's just sad because I know no one from GW will be fixing the problem.

jowls is ok. I use it because it was free and because on my win7/64
machine I don't like the voice choices for NVDA.  Eventually I'll be
forced to windows 10 and maybe narrator will be an option.  Perhaps once
I learn NVDA I will figure out how to get more voices, but not worth it
until windows 10 in 2.5 years.

But when I feel nastalgic I can go back and use W-e with the latest FF
as long as I open2 windows

One question - is there a setting to have links open in new windows in
FF? I think there is in Thunderbird. Maybe this would save me having to
manually open a 2nd window? Just a thought.

Brenda

On 10/9/2017 2:59 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:

Hi Lloyd,

I can confirm your findings with the latest Firefox.
Funny, though.
I had been running the 32-bit version, which opened automatically from my 
desktop icon.

Now, however, I seem to be running the 64-bit version.
The plot thickens, indeed! Smile

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk

Sent: October 9, 2017 1:29 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen 
Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going to
reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update is
that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can still
read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the
possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!



Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
http://lras.home.sprynet.com
-Original Message-
From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Rod Hutton
Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Hi David,

I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another tab,
wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the
browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost and
stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I read the
title bar.
This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that I
can begin testing it again.
Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll report
back our experiences.

All the best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of David via Talk
Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Lloyd
Rasmussen 
Cc: David 
Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.


This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.


Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
back if you see the same behavior.


1. Open Firefox.

2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.

3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.

4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
links and controls spoken?


Then the workaround.

1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
website you might like.

2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.

3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
one you opened in the first window.

3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
like ever before.

4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
with F4.

5. From here, keep navigating Fi

Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Brenda via Talk]

VFO made a proposal to AI Squared AFTER AI Squared had acquired 
GW-Micro.  I kinda wonder if AI Squared was told by VFO to get GW first 
in order to become a part of the VFO family. Nothing will ever be proven


As for jaws being better than NVDA, that may be a matter of opinion. I 
know an adaptive tech person that liked NVDA before Window-eyes was 
eliminated.  Maybe he suspected W-e was on the way out. Nonetheless he 
said positive things about NVDA not jaws.


As pointed out before it is good to have multiple screen readers. This 
is probably more necessary since Window-Eyes is waning.


. Brenda
On 10/11/2017 2:47 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

Jaws is a very good screen reader and it's better than NVDA unfortunately one 
of the two products had to go.  VFO made a proposal to AI Squared to merge they 
didn't have to do that they chose to so being bitter to the makers of Jaws 
really serves nothing.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Jim via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Jim
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Hi THERE!

While I agree that Jaws could do more especially now that they have acquired 
Window-Eyes I haven't had a real issue with Jaws.  I can read from the current line 
to the end of a document simply by pressing the 'insert+the down arrow key.  I wonder 
what programs you are actually having issues with using Jaws? Yes, I use W.E. for 
many years and was sad to see it go, but I haven't really found any major issues with 
Jaws either. Wonder if you might give some specifics as to where your issues have 
been? I use Thunderbird, Office 2007 notepad, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome  and 
several other programs regularly and I really don't seem to have any real problems 
with.  Of course, I kept Window-Eyes on my computer a long with Narrator and NVDA so 
if I have issues with one screen reader I can fall back onto another that will more 
than likely work.  As I have already said, I probably liked Window-Eye the best of 
all of them, but since Window-Eyes appears to be gone for the most part, I will 
simply have to make do with whatever I can use and the best of the remaining screen 
readers is still Jaws at least that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their 
own opinion.  I will continue to use Window-Eyes when I need to, at 
least until the windows updates render it unusable.  Have A good 1! de

.s


On 10-Oct-17 15:00, Charles Adkins via Talk wrote:

it doesn’t seem like they affect products for the disabled does it?

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 10, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Tony C via Talk  wrote:

No, but maybe Brainwashed. I quit using Jawws in 2004 because WE worked better 
with stuff I needed. Now Jaws still doesn't work well with a lot of very common 
programs.

-Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:42 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better
on Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues
involving the overall stability of each reader.


On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery
Website, when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down
continuously down the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do.
I also find Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am
not whining, I am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with
trashing a product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the
product they trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not
to mention charging so much for the product. Don't give me that
similar stuff, because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't
work and NVDA and Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others
will be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a
2 thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Brenda via Talk]

 Hey Olusegun

Keep me posted on your android success.  I would like to avoid PCs but 
find them a necessity.  I do simple things like web serfing, email and 
banking. I'm hoping an iPad willlet me do all these things safely, but 
not all apps are useable. I am trying to stay open to other solutions 
and maybe your android idea will be the right one.


Now SeroTech? Are you saying VFO is trying to eliminate them?

IAs for accepting defeat - I don't think GW accepted defeat - they tried 
to survive with AI Squared but they were tricked I suspect.


All very depressing.

I'm learning jowls because I'm forced into it due to the FF issues - 
probably a good thing in the long run.


brenda

On 10/10/2017 5:14 PM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk 
wrote:

Tony, I seriously doubt that the law against monopoly apply in the access
technology industry.  If it does, it is a bit too late now.  GW Micro is
gone and I doubt if it can be revived.  Besides, who truly want to spend
endless hours in court?  GW Micro went through that once, and I don't
believe Doug wants to come out of hiding to try again.

As I once opined, that which Freedom Scientific DID NOT win in the courts,
it got back by a series of tricks and arm twisting.  Its aim and objective
had been to figure out a way of running GW Micro into the ground as it did
FreedomBox, now SeroTech!

The two elephants had a good fight, the ground got terribly too hot, and the
weak one threw up its hands and walked away accepting defeat.

Anyway, back to my quest for complete and full deployment of Android!

Sincerely,m
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Brenda via Talk]

I think crawling into a hole is a great idea. I'm really starting to 
hate computers.

Brenda

On 10/10/2017 1:38 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

The consensus seems to be that WE, overall, is better.  I have yet to
use Jaws, but the more I read here, the more I realize that we each have
different systems and needs.  So while you can't seem to pay your credit
card, others can.  And while you can do certain things, others can't.  I
think I'll just craw into a hole.

On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:

you might as well junk it now.
2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
work as good.
i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
be jaws compatible doesn't work.
window eyes works fine.
money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
been f s that would be out of business now.

-Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
Cc: Bob Tinney
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Chuck,


I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.

Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:

Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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RE: reading rows and columns on a web page

[Steve Jacobson via Talk]

Butch,

Just as it was with Window-Eyes, it depends if the data you are trying to
read is actually presented in a table.  If it is, JAWS should go into table
mode automatically, and ALT CONTROL Arrows should let you move around the
table in rows and columns.  JAWS has another fairly new feature called Smart
Navigation.  You can turn this on with JAWS KEY and x.  It causes JAWS to
read certain web elements with the arrow keys in one chunk.  When this
feature is on, rows and columns in a table will automatically read with the
arrow keys as will some other elements like links.  You can turn this
feature on and off in the verbosity menu as well.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of BK via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:39 AM
To: gw micro 
Cc: BK 
Subject: reading rows and columns on a web page

Hello, when a row of text on a web page is separated and positioned
downward, line after line, instead of straight across. is there a way to
read it as a single line straight across? Do I need to enter table mode?
If so, please tell me the Jaws hotkey, as I am still learning Jaws. All help
is appreciated.

Butch

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Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[Brenda via Talk]

I accidentally upgraded FF when I was dealing with Viper. so now I'm at 
56.01 64 bit (sp).


someone on this list suggested opening FF then opening it again in a new 
window.  I did this and things are working (h) I even shut down 
my pc and restarted it - still Window-eyes is working.


However, I'm using jowls to write this email and am primarily using 
jowls because eventually Window-Eyes will not work.


It's just sad because I know no one from GW will be fixing the problem.

jowls is ok. I use it because it was free and because on my win7/64 
machine I don't like the voice choices for NVDA.  Eventually I'll be 
forced to windows 10 and maybe narrator will be an option.  Perhaps once 
I learn NVDA I will figure out how to get more voices, but not worth it 
until windows 10 in 2.5 years.


But when I feel nastalgic I can go back and use W-e with the latest FF 
as long as I open2 windows


One question - is there a setting to have links open in new windows in 
FF? I think there is in Thunderbird. Maybe this would save me having to 
manually open a 2nd window? Just a thought.


Brenda

On 10/9/2017 2:59 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:

Hi Lloyd,

I can confirm your findings with the latest Firefox.
Funny, though.
I had been running the 32-bit version, which opened automatically from my 
desktop icon.
Now, however, I seem to be running the 64-bit version.
The plot thickens, indeed! Smile

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk
Sent: October 9, 2017 1:29 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen 
Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going to
reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update is
that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can still
read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the
possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!



Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
http://lras.home.sprynet.com
-Original Message-
From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Rod Hutton
Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Hi David,

I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another tab,
wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the
browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost and
stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I read the
title bar.
This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that I
can begin testing it again.
Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll report
back our experiences.

All the best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of David via Talk
Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Lloyd
Rasmussen 
Cc: David 
Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.


This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.


Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
back if you see the same behavior.


1. Open Firefox.

2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.

3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.

4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
links and controls spoken?


Then the workaround.

1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
website you might like.

2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.

3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
one you opened in the first window.

3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
like ever before.

4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
with F4.

5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest
window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and
WinEyes seems to work just fine.


The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have
you rebooted 

Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi David:

Thanks for the well-written tutorial.  I have just saved it into my
Documents folder to use as a reference when I can't figure out how to
do something that I want to do.

Kevin Huber

On 10/10/17, David Moore via Talk  wrote:
> Hi Tom!
> I use Chrome all of the time! It is easier to use, much faster at
> downloading files, and streaming media. It is very accessible. I can send
> you a tutorial on using the Chrome browser!
> David Moore
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Kevin Huber via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 5:04 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Kevin Huber
> Subject: Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate
>
> Hi Tom:
>
> I find that I am using it more and more often these days.
> Give it a try!  You might be pleasantly surprised.
>
>
> On 10/2/17, Tom Kingston via Talk  wrote:
>> Has anyone given Chrome a serious look? I've never even tried it. So I'm
>> curious as to whether I should even bother.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[geodom--- via Talk]

I totally agreewith you.  But it seems they seem to think they are so big 
and important they don't need anything from anybody else.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Charles Adkins via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:40 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Charles Adkins
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what merge 
is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws. My 
point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws in 
both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader unlike 
anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they just 
trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk 
 wrote:


Hi Josh,

As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and will 
be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it should 
Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office 
support for NVDA is a high priority.

We'll keep everyone posted.
As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk

Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Josh Kennedy 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother
buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office
support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?




On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
you might as well junk it now.
2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
work as good.
i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
be jaws compatible doesn't work.
window eyes works fine.
money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
been f s that would be out of business now.

-Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
Cc: Bob Tinney
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Chuck,


I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.

Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net


On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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RE: reading rows and columns on a web page

[Pastor Gil Pries via Talk]

You can do 2 things.
Use control alt right arrow,
And you can turn smart navigation on.
You do this by pressing insert j h z and go through your options until you
get to smart navigation then turn it on.

Pastor Gil

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+gilp=embarqmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of BK via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 9:39 AM
To: gw micro
Cc: BK
Subject: reading rows and columns on a web page

Hello, when a row of text on a web page is separated and positioned
downward, line after line, instead of straight across. is there a way to
read it as a single line straight across? Do I need to enter table mode?
If so, please tell me the Jaws hotkey, as I am still learning Jaws. All help
is appreciated.

Butch

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RE: reading rows and columns on a web page

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

There is not exactly a table mode, but there is a command that will allow you 
to use your arrow keys to navigate a table.
Press insert space, and then  press the letter T.
I hope this helps.
Thanks,
Darrell


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of BK via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 12:39 PM
To: gw micro 
Cc: BK 
Subject: reading rows and columns on a web page

Hello, when a row of text on a web page is separated and positioned downward, 
line after line, instead of straight across. is there a way to read it as a 
single line straight across? Do I need to enter table mode?
If so, please tell me the Jaws hotkey, as I am still learning Jaws. All help is 
appreciated.

Butch

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reading rows and columns on a web page

[BK via Talk]

Hello, when a row of text on a web page is separated and positioned
downward, line after line, instead of straight across. is there a way to
read it as a single line straight across? Do I need to enter table mode?
If so, please tell me the Jaws hotkey, as I am still learning Jaws. All
help is appreciated.

Butch

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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[geodom--- via Talk]

Unfortunately, they weren't willing to admit that there were people who knew 
how to do things better than they could.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: loy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Nick Sarames via Talk
Cc: loy
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

The reason there are so many JAWS users, is that government
organizations bought them. Most Window Eyes users had to buy it
themselves. JAWS is a good program, but for me it is loaded down with so
much stuff that I don't need. I still use We most of the time, using
JAWS trying to get use to it in case WE doesn't work with the upcoming
Win 10 upgrade. Too bad they didn't utilize Doug's knowledge and let him
incorporate the better things in WE into JAWS.


On 10/10/2017 1:42 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better on
Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues involving
the overall stability of each reader.

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:

Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[geodom--- via Talk]

And it's possible that the jaws users who have always used it like what is 
familiar and have never used window eyes to know what it does better.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 1:42 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better on
Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues involving
the overall stability of each reader.

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:

Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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Re: Thunderbird Help

[loy via Talk]

click on link, then tab to choose file


On 10/11/2017 9:32 AM, L Urie via Talk wrote:

Hi,


I'm using Windows 10,with Window-Eyes 9.5.4 and the latest version of 
Thunderbird.  I'm trying to send a file attachment, however, when I go 
to insert in the file menu, that option doesn't seem to be there. I 
see images, table, link, and a few other things but no option to send 
a file.  What am I missing?


Thanks

Lee


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Re: Thunderbird Help

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Lee,
When I open the File menu while composing a message it comes in on New. 
Attach is the next item down. I don't see Insert anywhere.

I'm running the same setup as you.
Good luck,
Tom


On 10/11/2017 9:32 AM, L Urie via Talk wrote:

Hi,


I'm using Windows 10,with Window-Eyes 9.5.4 and the latest version of 
Thunderbird.  I'm trying to send a file attachment, however, when I go 
to insert in the file menu, that option doesn't seem to be there. I see 
images, table, link, and a few other things but no option to send a 
file.  What am I missing?


Thanks

Lee


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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

How does it compare to jaws?

-Original Message- 
From: David Moore via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:45 PM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: David Moore
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Hi guys!
Another paid screen reader is System Access from SeroTech!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:28 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Tony, the death of Window-Eyes is what has gotten me to elect to abandon
Windows completely and move everything over to both an Android tablet and a
smartphone!  I am a tad slow learning my tablet, but I will keep on with it
until I beat it to submission.  Business reasons also slow my move because a
new app I am in the process of deploying only works on Windows.  I hope that
before full deployment of the Windows app in question, I shall have found an
Android equivalent.

Window-Eyes kept me somewhat reasonably gainfully employed forever; where
Jaws had failed miserably, Window-Eyes came to the rescue like nothing ever
happened.  I miss the likes of Mr. Solomon, Mr. Curry and several others who
always found a magic wand to get things going for me when trouble struck.
If GW Micro had died a slow death, perhaps the pain can somewhat be
ameliorated.  To me, the cancer ate into the core and bone marrow of GW
Micro fast and furious.  Malignant does not even describe how worst this one
cancer was.  The sudden resignation of Mr. Weirich pretty much confirmed far
more than I wanted to know.

It has been said that there are two other screen readers besides the shark:
Supernova I think I know--it's from England, but what's the second one
besides NVDA?  I'm talking about a commercially available screen reader, not
any of the free incarnations!  I don't believe that Supernova gained too
much traction here in the United States, but it's still out there.  I'm not
certain it has sufficient traction at its home base either; I think Jaws
made pretty good inroads there as well!  Window-Eyes did pull some weight in
Supernova land, but that's old news now.

Oh well, cling onto your Android and iOS toys!  Jaws may someday become a
virus on them; may be not exactly on iOS, but possibly on Android because of
its openness!  The next 5 to 10 years should be pretty exciting for screen
readers and its many users.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Well, you have next year to get jaws for $125.00 and a sma for $120.00 
during the ACB and NFB conventions.


-Original Message- 
From: Josh Kennedy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:05 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; ukekearu...@valtdnet.com
Cc: Josh Kennedy
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

they also need to make that $120 full copy of jaws for people on fixed
incomes, something publically available on their website.


On 10/10/2017 7:07 PM, Tony C via Talk wrote:
Hi, Yes, I know. I do believe however that since they killed WE, they 
really need to focus hard on making Jaws work with alll the different 
programs that WE did/does. There's a few things that Jaws does better than 
WE, but there's quite a bit that WE does better than Jaws. I'm getting 
used to Jaws, but I still find myself going back to WE for a lot of 
things. I'm gonna be sad when WE no longer works.


-Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. 
via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:14 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
Subject: RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

Tony, I seriously doubt that the law against monopoly apply in the access
technology industry.  If it does, it is a bit too late now.  GW Micro is
gone and I doubt if it can be revived.  Besides, who truly want to spend
endless hours in court?  GW Micro went through that once, and I don't
believe Doug wants to come out of hiding to try again.

As I once opined, that which Freedom Scientific DID NOT win in the courts,
it got back by a series of tricks and arm twisting.  Its aim and objective
had been to figure out a way of running GW Micro into the ground as it did
FreedomBox, now SeroTech!

The two elephants had a good fight, the ground got terribly too hot, and 
the

weak one threw up its hands and walked away accepting defeat.

Anyway, back to my quest for complete and full deployment of Android!

Sincerely,m
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

By chance, would you happen to have a Tutorial for using Microsoft Edge 
Browser with jaws?


-Original Message- 
From: David Moore via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: David Moore
Subject: RE: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

Hi Tom!
I use Chrome all of the time! It is easier to use, much faster at 
downloading files, and streaming media. It is very accessible. I can send 
you a tutorial on using the Chrome browser!

David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 5:04 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Kevin Huber
Subject: Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

Hi Tom:

I find that I am using it more and more often these days.
Give it a try!  You might be pleasantly surprised.


On 10/2/17, Tom Kingston via Talk  wrote:

Has anyone given Chrome a serious look? I've never even tried it. So I'm
curious as to whether I should even bother.

Thanks,
Tom

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Thunderbird Help

[L Urie via Talk]

Hi,


I'm using Windows 10,with Window-Eyes 9.5.4 and the latest version of 
Thunderbird.  I'm trying to send a file attachment, however, when I go 
to insert in the file menu, that option doesn't seem to be there. I see 
images, table, link, and a few other things but no option to send a 
file.  What am I missing?


Thanks

Lee


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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Speaking of Window Eyes, does anyone happen to know if it will work with 
next weeks release of windows 10 fall update?


-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:51 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

because f s had all the money to throw around to permote there products  and 
to
businesses and schools. few even heard of window eyes and were not willing 
to
use a product they never heard of. if they knew window eyes worked most of 
the
time right out of the box without scripts years ago they would of dropped 
jaws

in a heart beat. they could of saved thousands of dollars because they would
not of had to pay script righters to get there software working.

-Original Message- 
From: Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they?
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better on
Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues involving
the overall stability of each reader.

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:

Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
Narrator do.

So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.

Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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.


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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

I'm just gonna leave this here. Any of this sound familiar?

https://youtu.be/00wQYmvfhn4

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Oct 11, 2017 5:40 AM, "Charles Adkins via Talk" <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what
> merge is being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws.
> My point was Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws
> in both technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader
> unlike anything the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they
> just trashed their "compeditor" completely like they never existed.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk <
> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Josh,
> >
> > As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and
> will be for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it
> should Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
> > I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office
> support for NVDA is a high priority.
> > We'll keep everyone posted.
> > As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail.com@lists.
> window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
> > Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
> > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> > Cc: Josh Kennedy 
> > Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
> >
> > oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother
> > buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office
> > support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> >> you might as well junk it now.
> >> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
> >> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't
> >> work as good.
> >> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to
> >> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
> >> window eyes works fine.
> >> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of
> >> been f s that would be out of business now.
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
> >> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
> >> Cc: Bob Tinney
> >> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
> >>
> >> Chuck,
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
> >> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
> >>
> >> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
> >>
> >>> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
> >>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
> >>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
> >>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
> >>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
> >>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
> >>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
> >>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
> >>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
> >>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
> >>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
> >>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
> >>> Narrator do.
> >>>
> >>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
> >>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
> >>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
> >>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
> >>> ___
> >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >>>
> >>> For membership options, visit
> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.
> com/tinneyb%40charter.net.
> >>> For subscription options, visit
> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> >>> List archives can be found at
> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >>
> >> For membership options, visit
> >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.
> com/netbat%40comcast.net.
> >> For subscription options, visit
> >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> >> L

Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Charles Adkins via Talk]

let me make one thing clear, I am not bitter. I am not sure about what merge is 
being talked about, Window-eyes was dropped, not merged with Jaws. My point was 
Vfo had the chance to retain the best of Window-eyes and jaws in both 
technology and people and produce one hell of a screen reader unlike anything 
the world has ever seen and they chose not to do that, they just trashed their 
"compeditor" completely like they never existed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Josh,
> 
> As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and will be 
> for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it should 
> Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
> I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office 
> support for NVDA is a high priority.
> We'll keep everyone posted.
> As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Cc: Josh Kennedy 
> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
> 
> oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother 
> buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office 
> support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> you might as well junk it now.
>> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
>> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't 
>> work as good.
>> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to 
>> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
>> window eyes works fine.
>> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of 
>> been f s that would be out of business now.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
>> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
>> Cc: Bob Tinney
>> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>> 
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
>> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
>> 
>> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>> 
>>> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
>>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
>>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
>>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
>>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
>>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
>>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
>>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
>>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
>>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
>>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
>>> Narrator do.
>>> 
>>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
>>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
>>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
>>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>> 
>>> For membership options, visit 
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tinneyb%40charter.net.
>>> For subscription options, visit 
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at 
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> 
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>> 
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net.
>> For subscription options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>> 
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joshuakennedy201%40comcast.net.
>> For subscription options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> 

RE: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Josh,

As for Office support in NVDA, as I am subscribed to Office 365, and will be 
for the  foreseeable future, I will be using NVDA to navigate it should 
Window-Eyes no longer suffice.
I've been keeping my ear to the ground, though, and I know that Office support 
for NVDA is a high priority.
We'll keep everyone posted.
As I've said, I will not be using the offering of the enemy of GW Micro.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
Sent: October 10, 2017 6:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Josh Kennedy 
Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

oh  well then maybe I will just stay with NVDA and I may not bother 
buying jaws, not sure yet. I heard jaws has better microsoft office 
support than NVDA does. But maybe that is no longer true?



On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> you might as well junk it now.
> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't 
> work as good.
> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to 
> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
> window eyes works fine.
> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of 
> been f s that would be out of business now.
>
> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
> Cc: Bob Tinney
> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
>
> Chuck,
>
>
> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
>
> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>
> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
>> Narrator do.
>>
>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>
>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tinneyb%40charter.net.
>> For subscription options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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> For subscription options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird

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Any vie

RE: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Thank you very much, David.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of David Moore via Talk
Sent: October 10, 2017 8:57 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: David Moore 
Subject: RE: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

Hi Dave!
Here is my tutorial on using Chrome pasted right into this email.
You can read it right in the message, or copy and paste it into a document.
Here is the tutorial!
Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser
By David Moore
This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.
I will also use JAWS 18 and NVDA 2017.2for this tutorial, because they both 
work the same in Chrome.
Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.
I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.
There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

Section One:
Launching Chrome:
One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type 
Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.
However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut 
icon on your desktop.
So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open 
Chrome.
The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google 
Chrome icon on your desktop.
The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the 
window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get 
undesirable results.

Section Two:
Bringing up a web site.
Press CTRL+L or Alt+D
and type the following:
www.freedomscientific.com
The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.
All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, 
and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

Section Three:
The Virticle Chrome menu:
I will press the Alt key.
The Chrome menu is open.
This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down 
arrow through.
I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.
New Tab, CTRL+T.
You can press that command right from the web site you are on.
New Window, CTRL+N
You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.
New incognito Window.
History sub menu.
I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!
History, CTRL+H
So, there is a key command for reading your history.
You can read a few sites you were on right here.
I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.
Downloads, CTRL+J
There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.
Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.
I will press right arrow, to open this.
I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D
That command will bookmark the page you are reading.
Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B
That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I 
do not want that.
Here is the important one.
manage bookmarks
The command is, CTRL+Shift+O
In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you 
have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, 
to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.
On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a 
page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in 
Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your 
computer, so you can back them up.
That is all for manage bookmarks.
Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.
press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and 
Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding 
folders.
Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.
Very important!
Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I 
mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, 
I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.
Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key 
commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You 
only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, 
and enter on the desired one.
To save a web site as a bookmark,
Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.
I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!
I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered 
by just pressing alt.
The next few are very self explanatory.
The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.
I will press right arrow on this.
I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.
Next, Save to desktop.
This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is 
how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.
It is hidden under this more 

RE: fire fox

[David Moore via Talk]

Hi everybody!
I will paste the tutorial right below what I am typing.
You can copy and paste this message right into Notepad or whatever, because the 
entire tutorial is just text.
The entire tutorial for using Chrome will follow right now:
Here it is!
Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser
By David Moore
This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.
I will also use JAWS 18 and NVDA 2017.2for this tutorial, because they both 
work the same in Chrome.
Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.
I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.
There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

Section One:
Launching Chrome:
One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type 
Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.
However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut 
icon on your desktop.
So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open 
Chrome.
The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google 
Chrome icon on your desktop.
The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the 
window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get 
undesirable results.

Section Two:
Bringing up a web site.
Press CTRL+L or Alt+D
and type the following:
www.freedomscientific.com
The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.
All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, 
and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

Section Three:
The Virticle Chrome menu:
I will press the Alt key.
The Chrome menu is open.
This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down 
arrow through.
I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.
New Tab, CTRL+T.
You can press that command right from the web site you are on.
New Window, CTRL+N
You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.
New incognito Window.
History sub menu.
I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!
History, CTRL+H
So, there is a key command for reading your history.
You can read a few sites you were on right here.
I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.
Downloads, CTRL+J
There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.
Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.
I will press right arrow, to open this.
I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D
That command will bookmark the page you are reading.
Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B
That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I 
do not want that.
Here is the important one.
manage bookmarks
The command is, CTRL+Shift+O
In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you 
have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, 
to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.
On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a 
page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in 
Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your 
computer, so you can back them up.
That is all for manage bookmarks.
Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.
press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and 
Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding 
folders.
Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.
Very important!
Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I 
mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, 
I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.
Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key 
commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You 
only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, 
and enter on the desired one.
To save a web site as a bookmark,
Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.
I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!
I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered 
by just pressing alt.
The next few are very self explanatory.
The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.
I will press right arrow on this.
I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.
Next, Save to desktop.
This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is 
how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.
It is hidden under this more tools submenu.
Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.
Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.
These are the same as add ons, in IE.
I will press left arrow, to close the More Tool