[OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning!
The Thames River has flooded... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4084&lon=-0.3652&zoom=12&layers=0B0FTF Has someone done something that will be fixed when it rerenders? Or could someone please have a look at it. I don't know much about how riverbanks and the likes are supposed to be done. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development
Patrick Aljord wrote: > Heh, I forgot about those, you do realize though that even if the > mailing list are not hosted on google, as long as they are public > Google will index them and collect all the data they can as the "Big > Brother" they are. When it comes to public web service there is no way > to avoid the Google (unless you use the robot.txt but that doesn't fly > with mailing lists). The problem isn't that Google can read your data, this is a public mailing list. The problem is that google controls your list. In order for people to sign up to your list, they need to enter an agreement with Google. With your own hosted email list you are the one in control. Rory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development
From: Rory McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 20 August 2008 10:49:14 BDT To: Patrick Aljord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development Patrick Aljord wrote: Heh, I forgot about those, you do realize though that even if the mailing list are not hosted on google, as long as they are public Google will index them and collect all the data they can as the "Big Brother" they are. When it comes to public web service there is no way to avoid the Google (unless you use the robot.txt but that doesn't fly with mailing lists). The problem isn't that Google can read your data, this is a public mailing list. The problem is that google controls your list. In order for people to sign up to your list, they need to enter an agreement with Google. With your own hosted email list you are the one in control. We're getting sidetracked here with this Google v. OSM debate (anyone remember when Google were the good guys?). I'd like to set up a new OSM mailing list for mom but a quick glance at the wiki didn't find a 'how to set up a new mailing list' page. Can anyone point me in the right direction? elvin ibbotson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] gosmore for (nearly) all
I generated gosmore data files for nearly all countries (no US at this stage) and I'll update them a few times each month. Visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Gosmore to get the location. A few of them are quite large, like Canada and Germany. If anyone in those countries want smaller files, please email me a bounding box of the region / province that you spend most of your time in, and I'll make sure regular updates are available. It will reduce your bandwidth cost when updating using your phone. (Tnx Johnny Carlsen) I also fixed a nasty busy loop that made some devices really unresponsive when running gosmore. Other changes include the ability to choose from over 100 map features (icons) when editing. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development
Correct me if I'm wrong, but MOM development is closed, right? It's not FOSS? So why is there a requirement for "a new OSM mailing list for mom" development, when the OSM community cannot develop it? Perhaps this email subject is misleading me. If its *not* for development, is it for the developers to get and respond to feature suggestions? Perhaps you could think about using forums (a thread in the OSM forums could work) or email newsletter to communicate with your users. cheers, Tim On 8/20/08, elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Rory McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 20 August 2008 10:49:14 BDT > To: Patrick Aljord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Talk Openstreetmap > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development > > > > Patrick Aljord wrote: > > Heh, I forgot about those, you do realize though that even if the > mailing list are not hosted on google, as long as they are public > Google will index them and collect all the data they can as the "Big > Brother" they are. When it comes to public web service there is no way > to avoid the Google (unless you use the robot.txt but that doesn't fly > with mailing lists). > > The problem isn't that Google can read your data, this is a public mailing > list. The problem is that google controls your list. In order for people to > sign up to your list, they need to enter an agreement with Google. With your > own hosted email list you are the one in control. > > We're getting sidetracked here with this Google v. OSM debate (anyone > remember when Google were the good guys?). > > I'd like to set up a new OSM mailing list for mom but a quick glance at the > wiki didn't find a 'how to set up a new mailing list' page. Can anyone point > me in the right direction? > > elvin ibbotson > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning!
Looking at some of the relevant ways it certainly is a mess, as pointed out by Dermot Mcnally see http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-August/028661.html No one replied on list to his post. I may be wrong, but I'm not sure that Mapnik yet supports the tag waterway=riverbank, which may be why there is such a jumble of tags applied to the ways making up the Thames. In theory (leaving aside the question of tagging tidal rivers) the only required tagging is waterway=riverbank, but if Mapnik doesn't support it I assume people have being adding natural=water, and in places natural=coastline to try and force the rendering in mapnik. This has led to some ways being tagged as natural = water, natural = coastline, waterway = riverbank. When you throw in the fact that ways tagged as natural = coastline don't need to be in relations to correctly show islands, but it is suggested that relations be used on the tags waterway = riverbank you get a complete mess. Whilst the relevant ways could be tidied up, and just tagged as waterway = riverbank, there seems little point in doing so until Mapnik supports this tag, as someone I am sure will come along and retag natural = water, natural = coastline to try and force the rendering again. David - Original Message - From: Gregory To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:26 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning! The Thames River has flooded... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4084&lon=-0.3652&zoom=12&layers=0B0FTF Has someone done something that will be fixed when it rerenders? Or could someone please have a look at it. I don't know much about how riverbanks and the likes are supposed to be done. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Number of steps
step_count gives the number of individual steps for a way tagged with highway=steps. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Number_of_steps ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
>>> 1) Is it possible to include more information with the PIOs. Such as
>>> contact numbers ('phone' tag), which would be for restuarants/etc?
>>
>> Don't know - interesting thought!
>I dug a little last night and the spec is understood to contain a bit
>field as to what each/every PIO contains (phone, address, etc). So I think
>it is possible. This would be a good thing for me, as I'm making a tourist
>map for local community, being able to find local resturants and get a
>phone number would be cool.
I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the
internet
publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong
numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls will
be really annoyed.
Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL
and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the mapper.
If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the search
result of
the yellow pages.
If you want to include any other information use the DESCRIPTION tag.
But please do not add phone numbers.
Lulu-Ann
--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 03:54:56PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the > internet > publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong > numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls will > be really annoyed. > Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL > and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the > mapper. > If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the search > result of > the yellow pages. The point will be that one day you need the yellow-pages machine readable link. E.g. every car navigation will show you the next 20 hotels surrounding you and will offer the numbers and addresses. I do agree though that these informations should not be the scope of OSM but there should be some possibility to link them. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
Florian Lohoff wrote: > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 03:54:56PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the >> internet >> publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong >> numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls will >> be really annoyed. >> Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL >> and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the >> mapper. >> If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the search >> result of >> the yellow pages. > > The point will be that one day you need the yellow-pages machine > readable link. E.g. every car navigation will show you the next 20 > hotels surrounding you and will offer the numbers and addresses. > > I do agree though that these informations should not be the scope of OSM > but there should be some possibility to link them. I agree. But in the meantime imho where available we should at least add that information to have them available in a clear and structured way together with the POIs. If at a later step we decide to split off certain information (opening hours, descriptions, ratings, ...) into a separate POI-database or something, then we're ready to go. Regards, Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:06:06PM +0200, Stefan Neufeind wrote: > > I do agree though that these informations should not be the scope of OSM > > but there should be some possibility to link them. > > I agree. But in the meantime imho where available we should at least add > that information to have them available in a clear and structured way > together with the POIs. If at a later step we decide to split off > certain information (opening hours, descriptions, ratings, ...) into a > separate POI-database or something, then we're ready to go. I was thinking about some "OpenYellowPages" like the "OpenGeoDB" so you add some node/way in OSM and set some id on it which is linkable to the OpenYellowPages. Now you can maintain all these informations seperate from OSM although one has a "strict" link between. One you (re)move the node this could get visible in the OpenYellowPages or OYP could tell you which nodes have been removed/changed. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
Yellowikis likes this kind of information. http://yellowikis.wikia.org On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Stefan Neufeind < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Florian Lohoff wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 03:54:56PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on > the internet > >> publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong > >> numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls > will > >> be really annoyed. > >> Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL > >> and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the > mapper. > >> If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the > search result of > >> the yellow pages. > > > > The point will be that one day you need the yellow-pages machine > > readable link. E.g. every car navigation will show you the next 20 > > hotels surrounding you and will offer the numbers and addresses. > > > > I do agree though that these informations should not be the scope of OSM > > but there should be some possibility to link them. > > I agree. But in the meantime imho where available we should at least add > that information to have them available in a clear and structured way > together with the POIs. If at a later step we decide to split off > certain information (opening hours, descriptions, ratings, ...) into a > separate POI-database or something, then we're ready to go. > > > Regards, > Stefan > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
> I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the > internet > publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong > numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls > will > be really annoyed. I hate to be the one to disagree, but (obviously) I think that there should be the ability to add phone numbers to the database and transfer these to PIO on a GPS map. The reason being is that I'm working hard on getting a 'tourist town' in the Canadian Rockies mapped out, part of the project is to produce a downloadable GPS map which 'we' could offer for free to the various visitors. The 'find' function on the garmins works really well, for example to look up resturants or accomodations in the area. Adding a contact phone number would enable visitors to quickly make a reservation/etc. I would agree that phone numbers are really only useful from a business point of view and great care should be taken to ensure that they are correct. Cheers, Mungewell. PS. If you'd like to visit, we're having a mapping party this coming Saturday. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Canada:Alberta:Crowsnest_Pass#Mapping_Party_-_23rd_August_2008 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
I don't mind being someone who disagrees :-; Adding phone numbers seems like a good thing to do to me. It's not like a closed system where changes are very difficult - if the number's wrong change it. Having the phone number of a hotel, restaurant, theatre, sport centre or any other business that takes bookings or reservations would be a great thing to have especially on the move. The URI is good too, but the phone number is still more useful for more people. cheers, Chris - Original Message > From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org > Sent: Wednesday, 20 August, 2008 4:08:38 PM > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM > > > > I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the > > internet > > publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong > > numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls > > will > > be really annoyed. > > I hate to be the one to disagree, but (obviously) I think that there > should be the ability to add phone numbers to the database and transfer > these to PIO on a GPS map. > > The reason being is that I'm working hard on getting a 'tourist town' in > the Canadian Rockies mapped out, part of the project is to produce a > downloadable GPS map which 'we' could offer for free to the various > visitors. > > The 'find' function on the garmins works really well, for example to look > up resturants or accomodations in the area. Adding a contact phone number > would enable visitors to quickly make a reservation/etc. > > I would agree that phone numbers are really only useful from a business > point of view and great care should be taken to ensure that they are > correct. > > Cheers, > Mungewell. > > PS. If you'd like to visit, we're having a mapping party this coming > Saturday. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Canada:Alberta:Crowsnest_Pass#Mapping_Party_-_23rd_August_2008 > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
> I hate to be the one to disagree, but (obviously) I think that there > should be the ability to add phone numbers to the database and transfer > these to PIO on a GPS map. Just thinking further on this. The original request was that mkgmap supported the 'phone' tag. This doesn't necessarily mean that the phone number _has_ to be included in the OSM database. The '.osm' file can be pre-processed before rendering '.img' file. I am imagining that I'll also be building a contour '.osm' file for the respective area and merging that with the real file '.osm'. So adding more PIO information would not be a huge headache, but it would be nicer to have them in the database Cheers, Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Chris Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't mind being someone who disagrees :-; > me too ;-) I'm also against phone numbers in OSM. OSM is not the yellow page. And for the same reasons, I'm against URI in the database. OSM is not google. Soon or later, it is potentially dozen applications who could add their own data into the database. IMHO It's not because it is easy and open that the database has to be used for other purpose than geopositionning. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development
Rory McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The problem isn't that Google can read your data, this is a public > mailing list. The problem is that google controls your list. In order > for people to sign up to your list, they need to enter an agreement with > Google. No, you can participate in google "groups" without creating a google account first. E-mail subscription still works, even if it is weakly documented. -- Karl Eichwalder ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:18:44PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I hate to be the one to disagree, but (obviously) I think that there > > should be the ability to add phone numbers to the database and transfer > > these to PIO on a GPS map. > > Just thinking further on this. The original request was that mkgmap > supported the 'phone' tag. This doesn't necessarily mean that the phone > number _has_ to be included in the OSM database. The '.osm' file can be > pre-processed before rendering '.img' file. > > I am imagining that I'll also be building a contour '.osm' file for the > respective area and merging that with the real file '.osm'. So adding more > PIO information would not be a huge headache, but it would be nicer to > have them in the database In the end you want businesses to edit their informations themself if at all possible. To get them to use JOSM or potlatch might be a little overkill. Rather give them some kind of yellowpages which then get linked into the OSM. The map converter could then drag together whatever informations appropriate. It might be necessary to tag informations in the yellow pages very strict to make phone numbers always be with international prefix etc - otherwise it might be difficult to get them to work in car manufacturers navi systems. For example map24.de does not even map the businesses to their real position on the map but rather simply uses an address location approximator. So you dont have an explicit link but only an address. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] maplint on the main map problems
is there a problem with maplint on the front page map of osm? i selected it in the popout box and nothing came up, it hasn't worked for a few days now. i know i was zoomed out far enough, it was zoom 13 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Groom wrote: > Looking at some of the relevant ways it certainly is a mess, as pointed out > by Dermot Mcnally see > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-August/028661.html > > No one replied on list to his post. I did - I think - but late as I was away... It's a mess.. > I may be wrong, but I'm not sure that Mapnik yet supports the tag > waterway=riverbank, which may be why there is such a jumble of tags applied > to the ways making up the Thames. > > In theory (leaving aside the question of tagging tidal rivers) the only > required tagging is waterway=riverbank, but if Mapnik doesn't support it I > assume people have being adding natural=water, and in places > natural=coastline to try and force the rendering in mapnik. > > This has led to some ways being tagged as natural = water, natural = > coastline, waterway = riverbank. When you throw in the fact that ways tagged > as natural = coastline don't need to be in relations to correctly show > islands, but it is suggested that relations be used on the tags waterway = > riverbank you get a complete mess. > > Whilst the relevant ways could be tidied up, and just tagged as waterway = > riverbank, there seems little point in doing so until Mapnik supports this > tag, as someone I am sure will come along and retag natural = water, natural > = coastline to try and force the rendering again. > > David I think it is - we'll soon spot it when it floods again, and if it's all consistent it'll be less likely to get altered, + if it's all consistent & doesn't render, someone will get frustrated enough to fix it :) > - Original Message - > From: Gregory > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:26 AM > Subject: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning! > > > > The Thames River has flooded... > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4084&lon=-0.3652&zoom=12&layers=0B0FTF > > Has someone done something that will be fixed when it rerenders? Or could > someone please have a look at it. > I don't know much about how riverbanks and the likes are supposed to be > done. Flooded - is that all? Seen the http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.472&lon=0.041&zoom=11&layers=0B0FTF Isle of Do? (I think my dogs's been there ;( ) Mark -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIrHDRJfMmcSPNh94RAr7/AJwI0P473nzfqOm6+OfBc1Q3/wHycgCfWLXb nTASuchrSpKWaKxU9rr9YNM= =6Huj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning!
2008/8/20 Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > The Thames River has flooded... > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4084&lon=-0.3652&zoom=12&layers=0B0FTF > > Has someone done something that will be fixed when it rerenders? Or could > someone please have a look at it. > I don't know much about how riverbanks and the likes are supposed to be > done. I can explain some of the background to this - and I'll copy in Carsten, since I think he did some recent work on this. Basically, the long-standing (odd) tagging was working for Mapnik and Osmarender in a classic "tagged-for-the-renderer" kind of way. But when Garmin maps were produced with mkgmap, the Thames flooded. My post a few days ago was on the foot of a thread on the German list, looking to see if there was a reason it shouldn't be retagged with a view to adopting standard tagging and thus enabling it to work in all three cases (and, we'd hope, others). >From what I can see of work I did on the river Shannon, Mapnik does, in fact, kind of support riverbank, in that it renders a blue outline, but doesn't fill it with water. That's nothing that should cause a flood, though. Furthermore, a "nicer" flawed tagging scheme that will allow the fill is to add an additional natural=water tag to the closed riverbank way. IMHO, we shouldn't do this, as an ugly Thames is a good catalyst to provoke Mapnik support. It would in any case be a shame to reintroduce the coastline this far inland. Carsten, do you have any theories about the likely cause? Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SOTM relations workshop: results
Folks, I've been lazy. I remember I had promised to report from the SOTM relations workshop but haven't done so yet. There was a lot of interest (about 20 people in the room I guess). Some didn't even know what a relation was, others dared to point out my own mistakes ;-) Unfortunately we didn't get to talk a lot about where we want to go - what relations we want to use more and for what and how - but at least we slayed a few beasts. I started with a small overview of relation types we currently have and how many there are in the planet. At the time, we had 14k relations altogether; the most used relation types are multipolygons (5k) and routes (4k). The next most used was a "street" relation type (1.5k, used in a superway sense), plus 1k type-less relations stemming from some kind of import. Then roughly 500 restrictions, 500 dual carriageways, and 300 boundaries. Multipolygons - Multipolygons have a special role because they don't conceptually belong on the same layer as other relations; they are used as a workaround for not having a basic area data type. It is not unlikely that they will, one day, be replaced by a basic area data type but until then we use multipolygon relations to model areas with holes. (Areas without holes can be modeled by one single closed way.) There were some misconceptions about how multipolygon relations should be used. Multipolygon relations have one "outer" way and 1-n "inner" ways. We noted down and agreed on the following: * tags describing the area (e.g. natural=forest) should go on the outer way or on the relation itself. * the inner ways should *not* be tagged... * ...unless they represent something themselves (e.g. a lake in the forest) in which case they're tagged as whatever they are (natural=water) * areas should not be segmented (i.e. if you have a big forest, don't split it into parts that share a common boundary) * the direction of the outer/inner ways does *not* matter * if you have a hole in a forest or something else, don't put a "landuse=land, layer=1" area on top of it ;-) The "no segmentation" rule is important because there are renderers already which use different colours for an area boundary than for the area itself, and such segments will then show up on the maps. Unsolved problem: How can we create really large areas without having to have a 10,000 node "outer" way. Should be possible with relations - e.g. multipolygon with >1 "outer" members that connect - but unsure. Routes -- Routes are most prominently used for cycle routes which are rendered on Andy Allan's cyclemap. Generally ways which are part of a route don't have a role, they're just part of it. But sometimes you have ways in the roles "forward" and "backward", and I had thought that these refer to different routings used by, say, a bus at it goes in one direction and back again. Turns out that the "forward" and "backward" are only meant clarify how the route goes by saying "you have to turn this way around to match up with the direction of the others", and can often be ignored. There's a lot of unclear points about questions like how to model a bus stop that is part of a route. People currently put a node into the relation and often give it a role like "forward_stop_5" to say that this is the 5th stop going forward. This is a bit ugly but currently necessary because the API does not guarantee ordering of relation members, i.e. if you stuff in a number of nodes there's no guarantee that they come back in the same sequence. It is not currently possible to model a route that uses the same way twice because relations may not contain the same object multiple times; this might have to be changed some time in the future. Peter Miller suggested we study the "transmodel" structure for bus routes etc. and might copy a few good ideas from them regarding public transport. It was widely agreed that we have a problem because the Wiki has a lot of information pre-dating the introduction of relations, and also some that is post-relations but also completely outdated. Grant Slater volunteered (I think ;-) to at least help remove API 0.4 stuff from the Wiki, but it will probably remain a problem that the Wiki is largely maintained (with best intentions and a lot of effort!) by people who don't actually work with the data and who, because of that lack of exposure, sometimes are not bold enough in throwing out the irrelevant stuff. I think there is a lot of work to be done until we can use the full potential of relations. Not in the API or data model, but in editors, renderers, and most importantly in agreeing how to best do certain things. I believe that, had we had two days instead of two hours, we could have produced significant advances. I hope that there will be a chance to continue this work in some way, either by forming some kind of informal "relation working group" or by having a proper developer meeting to supplement SOTM. Cheers Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ##
Re: [OSM-talk] Me and Ed Parsons are drowning!
It's on Osmarender that it's currently flooded. I thought I should let you all note that The Thames is tidal upto Teddington Locks (where Ferry Road is). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.43027&lon=-0.32192&zoom=15&layers=0B0FTF 2008/8/20 Dermot McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 2008/8/20 Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > The Thames River has flooded... > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4084&lon=-0.3652&zoom=12&layers=0B0FTF > > > > Has someone done something that will be fixed when it rerenders? Or could > > someone please have a look at it. > > I don't know much about how riverbanks and the likes are supposed to be > > done. > > I can explain some of the background to this - and I'll copy in > Carsten, since I think he did some recent work on this. Basically, the > long-standing (odd) tagging was working for Mapnik and Osmarender in a > classic "tagged-for-the-renderer" kind of way. But when Garmin maps > were produced with mkgmap, the Thames flooded. My post a few days ago > was on the foot of a thread on the German list, looking to see if > there was a reason it shouldn't be retagged with a view to adopting > standard tagging and thus enabling it to work in all three cases (and, > we'd hope, others). > > From what I can see of work I did on the river Shannon, Mapnik does, > in fact, kind of support riverbank, in that it renders a blue outline, > but doesn't fill it with water. That's nothing that should cause a > flood, though. Furthermore, a "nicer" flawed tagging scheme that will > allow the fill is to add an additional natural=water tag to the closed > riverbank way. IMHO, we shouldn't do this, as an ugly Thames is a good > catalyst to provoke Mapnik support. It would in any case be a shame to > reintroduce the coastline this far inland. > > Carsten, do you have any theories about the likely cause? > > Dermot > > -- > -- > Iren sind menschlich > -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] rendering different oneway arrows icons
Stephan Schildberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The rendererd arrow icons for oneways have a different appearance in > Osmarender. > > > its icon has more contrast > oneway = -1 > > those icons are pale and longer > oneway = 1 > oneway = true > oneway = yes I believe this is simply a bug, see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/991 80n: Or was there some reason the new oneway arrow you talked about at the first SOTM wasn't done for both backwards and forwards? If it was unintentional, do you think you could change it? I don't really understand the rather fancy css/svg you've used there. -- Knut Arne Bjørndal aka Bob Kåre [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] rendering different oneway arrows icons
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:31:26PM +0200, Knut Arne Bjørndal wrote: > Stephan Schildberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The rendererd arrow icons for oneways have a different appearance in > > Osmarender. > > > > > > its icon has more contrast > > oneway = -1 > > > > those icons are pale and longer > > oneway = 1 > > oneway = true > > oneway = yes > > I believe this is simply a bug, see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/991 While we are on oneway icons. Roads that have a physical barrier between the two directions are normally mapped as two seperate, oneway-ways. While correct, that sort of oneway is, in my opinion, not the same oneway as a 'real' oneway street where there is no parallel going the counterdirection. As it stands with our current tagging we have no possibility to distinguish between them. I propose a new tag : oneway_paired = true. This would be an _additional_ tag As a bonus, renderers could drop the oneway arrows on such ways, which is the cathographically correct thing to do. cu bart ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
