Re: [OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
>> I'm curious if bicycle boulevards would qualify as living streets, giv= en >> that a living street would most closely describe a bicycle boulevard i= n >> OSM terms, though a bicycle boulevard might lack pedestrian facilities= =2E >> Frequently, these are not streets you would want to let the kids play= >> in, as the volume of fast-moving, near-silent vehicles would present a= >> very real collision hazard at peak traffic times. This kind of way ha= s >> sprung up only in the last 10 years or so, and almost all of them were= >> formerly highway=3Dresidential prior to becoming bicycle boulevards. >=20 > I would still like to see the cycleroad-proposal become reality, > because these kind of streets IMHO merit their own class. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/cycleroad Wow, that one is full of win! I threw my argument in support up on the discussion page. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
roland wrote: > > > is there any other way to get OSM data without going to the main server? > > there are no other caches, right? > > There is a whole ecosystem of servers providing OSM data thank you roland -- i wasn't aware of all the options. my main use is fetching quadtile-size bounding boxes, so xapi has been the alternative of choice, but i'll explore the others. paul > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm > > There are a couple of sources for excerpts or diff files listed on this page. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ROMA > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TRAPI > > These two services are optimised for queries to make a map of the data. They > are intended to be only some minutes behind the main server but don't offer > all the tags. So you should not use the data for further editing. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/XAPI > > This is the well known alternative to the main API. It's also intended to be > only minutes behind the main server. It has an extended API with still a > concise syntax. The data is usable for editing. The only tag that is > filtered > out is "created_by" - this tag can safely be ignored. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Server_Side_Script > > This one is very recent and still in a state of playground. It is intended > to > serve particular complex queries beyond the scope of XAPI. It also offers > (almost) the complete functionality of XAPI. It is some hours behind the > main > API. It does not serve data that can be used for editing, in particular it > does not provide version information. If somebody asks for version number > support (or other metadata), I'll start to implement that. There has been no > demand so far. > > There may be other storage servers, the category "Data storage" on the wiki > is > not yet written. But at least, there are plenty of alternatives to download > data from the main server. > > Cheers, > Roland > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk =- paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 51.6 degrees) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
2009/6/9 Paul Johnson : > I'm curious if bicycle boulevards would qualify as living streets, given > that a living street would most closely describe a bicycle boulevard in > OSM terms, though a bicycle boulevard might lack pedestrian facilities. > Frequently, these are not streets you would want to let the kids play > in, as the volume of fast-moving, near-silent vehicles would present a > very real collision hazard at peak traffic times. This kind of way has > sprung up only in the last 10 years or so, and almost all of them were > formerly highway=residential prior to becoming bicycle boulevards. I would still like to see the cycleroad-proposal become reality, because these kind of streets IMHO merit their own class. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/cycleroad cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cheat Sheet
How about doing it like this? http://www.pocketmod.com/app/index.html [] 2009/6/9 Knut Arne Bjørndal > > Peter Dörrie writes: > > > Hi everybody, > > > > I recently came across the idea of producing a "cheat sheet" of the Map > > Features page for mappers to take "into the field". I hink that this is a > > great idea and I have set up a wiki page ( > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ > > Cheat_sheet) to discuss and refine a concept for something like this. The > goal > > of the project would be to produce high quality and highly portable cheat > > sheets for the OSM community to facilitate the usage of the ever > expanding > > amount of tags. Please participate. > > If you want a portable Map_Features then Geo::OSM::MapFeatures (the module > providing data to the not-in-map_features maplint test) should provide the > data for this easily enough. > > I talked with somebody about this on IRC quite a while ago, he did some > tests using a simple XML file I made and processed through FOP. I'm afraid I > no longer remember who it was, but depending on how small you want this > thing to be this might be the way to go. > > -- > Knut Arne Bjørndal > aka Bob Kåre > bob+...@cakebox.net > bobk...@irc > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cheat Sheet
Peter Dörrie writes: > Hi everybody, > > I recently came across the idea of producing a "cheat sheet" of the Map > Features page for mappers to take "into the field". I hink that this is a > great idea and I have set up a wiki page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ > Cheat_sheet) to discuss and refine a concept for something like this. The goal > of the project would be to produce high quality and highly portable cheat > sheets for the OSM community to facilitate the usage of the ever expanding > amount of tags. Please participate. If you want a portable Map_Features then Geo::OSM::MapFeatures (the module providing data to the not-in-map_features maplint test) should provide the data for this easily enough. I talked with somebody about this on IRC quite a while ago, he did some tests using a simple XML file I made and processed through FOP. I'm afraid I no longer remember who it was, but depending on how small you want this thing to be this might be the way to go. -- Knut Arne Bjørndal aka Bob Kåre bob+...@cakebox.net bobk...@irc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Address ranges / Using OSM data in a geocoder
Hi! New here. My name is Sebastian Benthall. I'm investigating the possibility of using OSM data to back a geocoding application on behalf of OpenGeo, which does a number of open source geospatial software projects. I have a couple questions. It looks like the two options for US geocoding are TIGER line data and OSM. OSM is appealing to us because it already provides an interface for correcting inaccurate address data. But it looks from some of my investigation like much of the TIGER data that has been pulled into OSM has not had the address ranges added. Is that generally true? If so, how hard would it be to put that data in, say if we wanted to automate as much of the work as possible. It looks like some of the TIGER data still has its tiger:tlid attribute, but I've read that in many places it is no longer there. How good is the coverage on that? Would it work to sweep through the data and add address ranges to it based on which TLID's matched? Are those changes this community would support? Is there a smarter way to do it? Sorry to be such a newbie. I appreciate your time and any answers you might have about this, Sebastian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
> is there any other way to get OSM data without going to the main server? > there are no other caches, right? There is a whole ecosystem of servers providing OSM data http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm There are a couple of sources for excerpts or diff files listed on this page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ROMA http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TRAPI These two services are optimised for queries to make a map of the data. They are intended to be only some minutes behind the main server but don't offer all the tags. So you should not use the data for further editing. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/XAPI This is the well known alternative to the main API. It's also intended to be only minutes behind the main server. It has an extended API with still a concise syntax. The data is usable for editing. The only tag that is filtered out is "created_by" - this tag can safely be ignored. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Server_Side_Script This one is very recent and still in a state of playground. It is intended to serve particular complex queries beyond the scope of XAPI. It also offers (almost) the complete functionality of XAPI. It is some hours behind the main API. It does not serve data that can be used for editing, in particular it does not provide version information. If somebody asks for version number support (or other metadata), I'll start to implement that. There has been no demand so far. There may be other storage servers, the category "Data storage" on the wiki is not yet written. But at least, there are plenty of alternatives to download data from the main server. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Paul Johnson wrote: > (Please don't CC me when replying; I get the list, and I don't need two > copies (plus this defeats unsubscribing if someone later wants to leave > the conversation). Please use your mailer's reply-to-list feature or > check your To: and CC: headers!) > Paul, Go to http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk, log in and edit your options. Scroll to the bottom and find this: *Avoid duplicate copies of messages?* When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list. Select *Yes*to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select *No* to receive copies. If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you elect to receive copies, every copy will have a X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it. Obviously it doesn't address your concern about leaving the conversation, but maybe it will be less annoying for you to receive messages from people like me that have been conditioned to Reply All. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
Germany has them too (Fahrradstrasse). Probably highway=residential with cycleway=something as yet undefined. Richard On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: > I'm curious if bicycle boulevards would qualify as living streets, given > that a living street would most closely describe a bicycle boulevard in > OSM terms, though a bicycle boulevard might lack pedestrian facilities. > Frequently, these are not streets you would want to let the kids play > in, as the volume of fast-moving, near-silent vehicles would present a > very real collision hazard at peak traffic times. This kind of way has > sprung up only in the last 10 years or so, and almost all of them were > formerly highway=residential prior to becoming bicycle boulevards. > > Bicycle boulevards are more major than residential streets > (intersections with residential streets have the residential streets > facing stop signs, to minimize the need for bicycles to stop), > intersections with larger (tertiary or better) ways typically have > restrictions preventing motorists from doing anything but making a right > turn from the bicycle boulevard and/or motorists from the major way from > turning onto the bicycle boulevard, and as often as not have traffic > signals (with more heavily traveled bicycle boulevards changing in favor > of the cyclists in advance, particularly in Portland's Little Bohemia). > At large roundabouts, the bicycle boulevard typically has a cutout > through the central island, with YIELD TO BICYCLES signs on the central > ring of the roundabout (through bicycles typically do not have to stop > or yield, and have the right-of-way over vehicles already in the > roundabout). The restrictions on motorists make bicycle boulevards > unsuitable for rat runs. > > Typically, cycle maps I've seen that are aware of these ways show them > at a much higher priority than they would on your average street map, > with the larger way de-prioritized, in some cases quite severely, > depending on traffic flow and bicycle facilities (such as US 30 Bypass > in Oregon, a primary, typically being shown as a minor through street > like most of the streets intersecting it on cycle maps, with the bicycle > boulevard a few blocks off shown as the primary way across Northeast > Portland). > > I am aware of bicycle boulevards existing in at least three states and > one province, and I'm sure there's more out there, so I'm a little > surprised this hasn't been tackled. > > (Please don't CC me when replying; I get the list, and I don't need two > copies (plus this defeats unsubscribing if someone later wants to leave > the conversation). Please use your mailer's reply-to-list feature or > check your To: and CC: headers!) > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
USHAKOV, Sergey wrote: > Wikipedia isn't the best example making a judgement call on this, > either; our own wiki is much better in this regard. Our wiki has > tagging examples and graphics that seem to make it pretty clear that the > living_street tag applies only to ways that are actually living_streets, > not all ways in an area. I'm not sure whether that would be highway=residential, noname=yes or highway=service, service=parking_aisle. Either one of those would fit more closely than a living_street. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Bicycle boulevards
I'm curious if bicycle boulevards would qualify as living streets, given that a living street would most closely describe a bicycle boulevard in OSM terms, though a bicycle boulevard might lack pedestrian facilities. Frequently, these are not streets you would want to let the kids play in, as the volume of fast-moving, near-silent vehicles would present a very real collision hazard at peak traffic times. This kind of way has sprung up only in the last 10 years or so, and almost all of them were formerly highway=residential prior to becoming bicycle boulevards. Bicycle boulevards are more major than residential streets (intersections with residential streets have the residential streets facing stop signs, to minimize the need for bicycles to stop), intersections with larger (tertiary or better) ways typically have restrictions preventing motorists from doing anything but making a right turn from the bicycle boulevard and/or motorists from the major way from turning onto the bicycle boulevard, and as often as not have traffic signals (with more heavily traveled bicycle boulevards changing in favor of the cyclists in advance, particularly in Portland's Little Bohemia). At large roundabouts, the bicycle boulevard typically has a cutout through the central island, with YIELD TO BICYCLES signs on the central ring of the roundabout (through bicycles typically do not have to stop or yield, and have the right-of-way over vehicles already in the roundabout). The restrictions on motorists make bicycle boulevards unsuitable for rat runs. Typically, cycle maps I've seen that are aware of these ways show them at a much higher priority than they would on your average street map, with the larger way de-prioritized, in some cases quite severely, depending on traffic flow and bicycle facilities (such as US 30 Bypass in Oregon, a primary, typically being shown as a minor through street like most of the streets intersecting it on cycle maps, with the bicycle boulevard a few blocks off shown as the primary way across Northeast Portland). I am aware of bicycle boulevards existing in at least three states and one province, and I'm sure there's more out there, so I'm a little surprised this hasn't been tackled. (Please don't CC me when replying; I get the list, and I don't need two copies (plus this defeats unsubscribing if someone later wants to leave the conversation). Please use your mailer's reply-to-list feature or check your To: and CC: headers!) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Open*Map.* ?
> I contacted OpenGreenMap about this after you brought it up, mostly > because I thought the name was confusingly similar given the naming > convention used by various sites rendering OSM data. I received a > response at 4:20PM local time from a Wendy E. Brawer. > > She indicated that OGM has been considering OSM since day one, and that > it is in the works presently. I'm keeping the channel open if anybody > has further suggestions. Wendy Brawer and Green Maps are a long time community, participatory mapping network, spanning the globe. A core influence for me and several others in OpenStreetMap. Green Maps have traditionally been paper based. OpenGreenMap is their intended foray into online maps. The base maps themselves could likely be OSM, with a potential information flow from the annotations back into OSM. The annotations themselves will be licensed in an open way. -Mikel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
Lennard wrote: > Maarten Deen wrote: > >>> The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. >> Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? >> >> And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? >> Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still >> serves >> 0.5 data and "0.6 service will start shortly" (ever since the move to 0.6). >> >> Any help needed? > > Is XAPI 'officially' supported? I mean: is it considered one of the > fundamental things in OSM land? For the BeNeLux server we are now running a 'SQL based' XAPI server[1]. Since that is about 700MB worth of data it is relatively easy to setup and update. The world on disk is 35GB and the code exist to support SQL based queries and 'xpath' style queries[2] with '0.5' output. So the only thing that needs to be added is the actual timestamp of the last data load. If anyone has a server available with 64bit Linux, 4-8GB of RAM and some spare gigabytes left, port 80 open to the public, I am happy to set it up. Stefan [1] http://xapi.openstreet.nl:8000/ [2] http://repo.or.cz/w/handlerosm.git ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
lennard wrote: > Maarten Deen wrote: > > >> The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. > > > > Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? > > > > And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? > > Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still > serves > > 0.5 data and "0.6 service will start shortly" (ever since the move to 0.6). > > > > Any help needed? > > Is XAPI 'officially' supported? I mean: is it considered one of the > fundamental things in OSM land? is there any other way to get OSM data without going to the main server? there are no other caches, right? paul =- paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 53.6 degrees) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
The hypercube server has been down for a couple of days now. Not sure what's happening there. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Lennard wrote: > Maarten Deen wrote: > > >> The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. > > > > Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? > > > > And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? > > Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still > serves > > 0.5 data and "0.6 service will start shortly" (ever since the move to > 0.6). > > > > Any help needed? > > Is XAPI 'officially' supported? I mean: is it considered one of the > fundamental things in OSM land? > > > I've had the telascience server serve me proper 0.6 data, so if there is > a data > > issue, it's something that popped up at least after june 1st (that's the > last > > time I can confirm getting data). > > There's more stuff on hypercube that's not running. The coastline > checker is one of the major ones. > > -- > Lennard > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
Maarten Deen wrote: >> The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. > > Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? > > And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? > Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still > serves > 0.5 data and "0.6 service will start shortly" (ever since the move to 0.6). > > Any help needed? Is XAPI 'officially' supported? I mean: is it considered one of the fundamental things in OSM land? > I've had the telascience server serve me proper 0.6 data, so if there is a > data > issue, it's something that popped up at least after june 1st (that's the last > time I can confirm getting data). There's more stuff on hypercube that's not running. The coastline checker is one of the major ones. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
80n wrote: > The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still serves 0.5 data and "0.6 service will start shortly" (ever since the move to 0.6). Any help needed? > Yann, what query were you trying. Once the server is back up I can take a > look and see why it would be failing for you. I've had the telascience server serve me proper 0.6 data, so if there is a data issue, it's something that popped up at least after june 1st (that's the last time I can confirm getting data). Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cheat Sheet
So what do you need on the cheat sheet? Jack Stringer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Overhauled the Garmin page
Good work, long overdue. I would make some suggestions: * The "model name" could have the links from the "Detailed description", saving width * ... and could link to the right part of the page using # in the url * Most of the "good" and "bad" points will be the same for each eTrex unit, and so combining them would be useful * Colour-coding good and bad things is useful using template:yes and its cousins * Most importantly, that table needs info in it ASAP otherwise it's one of those many "good idea but only partly-implemented" things which are littered around the wiki - i.e. where someone comes up with a plan but doesn't follow through on finishing the job :-) Cheers, Andy 2009/6/5 Peter Dörrie : > Hi everybody, > > I made an overhaul of the Garmin-Page [1] and moved all the different device > series to their own subpages. I also introduced a proposal for an overview > table for individual devices. Please feel free to comment and change > everything. > > Peter > > [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Garmin > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
USHAKOV, Sergey schrieb: > .. > > Please have a look at this picture: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:Residential_area_way_1.jpg . > Officially it's an un-named way in a residential area. Does it qualify as an > alley? ;) What is the right word for it that you would pick as a native > English-speaker? > IMO it's should be tagged as highay=servive Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Earth equivalent for Openstreetmap
2009/6/9 Iván Sánchez Ortega : > El Martes, 9 de Junio de 2009, Tanveer Singh escribió: >> Is there a similar software in openstreetmap which downloads openstreetmap >> data, allows me to create a track based on that. > > I think that Viking should do the trick. It isn't as fancy as GEarth, but it > will let you create waypoints in a variety of formats. > > Have a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ > > Cheers, This page offers an online-service that might be what you want: http://gnuher.de/cycleroute/map (it seems to be intended for bicycles but could IMHO be used for any purpose). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging tyre/tire services?
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Didn't find in Map Features page how to tag a service that > can mount, unmount and repair motorcar tyres. This is a quite > important POI for a car traveller. > > Looking at tagwatch, I've found a small usage of service=tire, > 55 instances in Europe. > > Let's define an official tag for this and document it in Map Features > page. An advice from native English speakers is required: How about amenity=tire_repair along the lines of amenity=fuel, amenity=recycling ? We can then have further tags to identify what kind of tires are serviced (bicycle tires, motorcycle tires, car/larger vehicle tires). - Pradeep B V Mapunity - social technology at work www.mapunity.in ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street' (USHAKOV, Sergey)
>
There is a certain degree of cultural bias in the classifications used
in OSM - but the freedom to change things. Although 'living_street'
has particular usage in western europe, are types of street found in
other countries that hardly exist in western europe that I think
living street is trying to reproduce. I think those in Russia can
decide to use this tag if they have a common type of arrangement of
streets that is not common elsewhere. but appears to fit the
definition. They should also feel free to use a new name if there
really is not a suitable name currently in use.
I was surprised to see in china that most residential streets have
gates on them to that only residents of the apartments blocks can
enter. It could be tempting to classify them as alleys. but they
could also fit living street, or just residential, if the user knows
that the convention in China is for there to be a gate. In some
countries roads in industrial estates are classes as residential, in
others, service, and in other unclassified. - it might offend purists,
but we do allow cultural flexibility in tagging as well as cultural
and technical norms of road design and use.
James
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:49:26 +0400
> From: "USHAKOV, Sergey"
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
> To:
> Cc: Paul Johnson
> Message-ID: <2f55ecac18e04817b14b237732dfe...@office.chemitech.ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> Paul, thank you for being the first to respond to my post with the new
> subject :)
>
> OSM wiki is a great resource and really does clarify a lot.
> Meanwhile it is
> "work in progress" like all wikis and still leaves some space for
> possible
> confusion here and there...
>
> The reason for my question and proposal is that there is a lot of
> confusion
> and discussions between Russian OSM members on what should be tagged
> as a
> 'living_street'. I am personally not a supporter of mapping all
> garbage
> collection ways :) But residential areas in Russian cities are full of
> public un-named ways that are an important means for getting to the
> destination, sometimes via a long and complicated path. And traffic
> rules
> applicable on these un-named "streets" are very much the same as for
> the
> named living streets. So it is really important for navigation
> software to
> know about them and treat/render them appropriately.
>
> Please have a look at this picture:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:Residential_area_way_1.jpg .
> Officially it's an un-named way in a residential area. Does it
> qualify as an
> alley? ;) What is the right word for it that you would pick as a
> native
> English-speaker?
>
> The most discussed questions are:
> - is having a name really important for an object to be a
> 'living_street'
> (say, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street
> explicitly suggests no 'name' tag for a 'living_street' in Belarus)
> - is being marked with a "residential area" traffic sign really
> important
> for an object to be a 'living_street' ("living street" traffic rules
> may be
> implied on certain ways without any signs)
> - what may be other important characteristics of a 'living_street" as
> compared to "service"
>
> Any feedback is most appreciated...
>
> Regards,
> Sergey
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paul Johnson"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
>
> USHAKOV, Sergey wrote:
> [...]
> I honestly don't see where the confusion is. Alleys occur in all
> kinds
> of districts throughout the world, the type of way doesn't change
> purely
> on inductive reasoning alone. If it's a back alleyway where you're
> not
> expected to do more than find hidden driveways, garbage and delivery
> access, and maybe off-street parking, it's not a living_street even if
> all the ways around it are.
>
> Wikipedia isn't the best example making a judgement call on this,
> either; our own wiki is much better in this regard. Our wiki has
> tagging examples and graphics that seem to make it pretty clear that
> the
> living_street tag applies only to ways that are actually
> living_streets,
> not all ways in an area.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dservice
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Living_street
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Cheat Sheet
Hi everybody, I recently came across the idea of producing a "cheat sheet" of the Map Features page for mappers to take "into the field". I hink that this is a great idea and I have set up a wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cheat_sheet) to discuss and refine a concept for something like this. The goal of the project would be to produce high quality and highly portable cheat sheets for the OSM community to facilitate the usage of the ever expanding amount of tags. Please participate. Greetings, Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
The Russian example looks like highway=service to me (ie basically a car-park). The main thing about a living-street is that it's been paved to be much more pedestrian-friendly, and you can't see very far (so everything goes slowly). Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
USHAKOV, Sergey schrieb:
> Paul, thank you for being the first to respond to my post with the new
> subject :)
>
> OSM wiki is a great resource and really does clarify a lot. Meanwhile it is
> "work in progress" like all wikis and still leaves some space for possible
> confusion here and there...
>
> The reason for my question and proposal is that there is a lot of confusion
> and discussions between Russian OSM members on what should be tagged as a
> 'living_street'. I am personally not a supporter of mapping all garbage
> collection ways :) But residential areas in Russian cities are full of
> public un-named ways that are an important means for getting to the
> destination, sometimes via a long and complicated path. And traffic rules
> applicable on these un-named "streets" are very much the same as for the
> named living streets. So it is really important for navigation software to
> know about them and treat/render them appropriately.
>
> Please have a look at this picture:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:Residential_area_way_1.jpg .
> Officially it's an un-named way in a residential area. Does it qualify as an
> alley? ;) What is the right word for it that you would pick as a native
> English-speaker?
>
> The most discussed questions are:
> - is having a name really important for an object to be a 'living_street'
> (say, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street
> explicitly suggests no 'name' tag for a 'living_street' in Belarus)
I personally don't know any living_street without a name tag here in
germany. But this is more a matter of fact on the ground than a rule
that needs to be followed ;-)
> - is being marked with a "residential area" traffic sign really important
> for an object to be a 'living_street' ("living street" traffic rules may be
> implied on certain ways without any signs)
How are they implied without any signs? Street width, special areas, ...?
In general the sign is the case here in germany (and other western
europe countries it seems) - if there are different regulations in
russia then these may better be applied.
> - what may be other important characteristics of a 'living_street" as
> compared to "service"
>
> Any feedback is most appreciated...
Well, I don't know the legal system in russia and belarus well ;-)
Here in germany, the "verkehrsberuhigter Bereich" that is tagged in OSM
as living_street (the tag I invented years ago :-) are often "normal"
residential streets with special legal regulations (walk speed, parking,
...). Basically you'll tag a living_street when the blue sign shown at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street appears -
if not, simply use highway=residential. Physically these streets may
even possibly connect higher level streets, but transit traffic should
be avoided.
I would use highway=service with it's subtags for (usually smaller)
streets that leads to something (fuel station, buildings, ...)
All in all, if the street/legal system in russia differs in important
points here, it's up to the russian community to find criteria for
tagging that fit's best.
Regards, ULFL
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Re: [OSM-talk] tagging tyre/tire services?
On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 10:39:57AM +0100, Ken Guest wrote: K> > Didn't find in Map Features page how to tag a service that K> > can mount, unmount and repair motorcar tyres. This is a quite K> > important POI for a car traveller. K> > K> > Looking at tagwatch, I've found a small usage of service=tire, K> > 55 instances in Europe. K> > K> > Let's define an official tag for this and document it in Map Features K> > page. An advice from native English speakers is required: K> > K> > which word is better for tag key: "service" or "shop"? K> > which word is correct for tag value: "tire" or "tyre"? K> > K> K> K> service=tyre I think would be the better choice out of those options. Yep, the word "service" is more clear than "shop", it helps to differ between a place where tyres are sold and a place where they are repaired. But according to project wiki, it looks like service is dedicated for roads: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:service :( -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEB-RIPE ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
Paul, thank you for being the first to respond to my post with the new
subject :)
OSM wiki is a great resource and really does clarify a lot. Meanwhile it is
"work in progress" like all wikis and still leaves some space for possible
confusion here and there...
The reason for my question and proposal is that there is a lot of confusion
and discussions between Russian OSM members on what should be tagged as a
'living_street'. I am personally not a supporter of mapping all garbage
collection ways :) But residential areas in Russian cities are full of
public un-named ways that are an important means for getting to the
destination, sometimes via a long and complicated path. And traffic rules
applicable on these un-named "streets" are very much the same as for the
named living streets. So it is really important for navigation software to
know about them and treat/render them appropriately.
Please have a look at this picture:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:Residential_area_way_1.jpg .
Officially it's an un-named way in a residential area. Does it qualify as an
alley? ;) What is the right word for it that you would pick as a native
English-speaker?
The most discussed questions are:
- is having a name really important for an object to be a 'living_street'
(say, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street
explicitly suggests no 'name' tag for a 'living_street' in Belarus)
- is being marked with a "residential area" traffic sign really important
for an object to be a 'living_street' ("living street" traffic rules may be
implied on certain ways without any signs)
- what may be other important characteristics of a 'living_street" as
compared to "service"
Any feedback is most appreciated...
Regards,
Sergey
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Johnson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - 'living_street'
USHAKOV, Sergey wrote:
[...]
I honestly don't see where the confusion is. Alleys occur in all kinds
of districts throughout the world, the type of way doesn't change purely
on inductive reasoning alone. If it's a back alleyway where you're not
expected to do more than find hidden driveways, garbage and delivery
access, and maybe off-street parking, it's not a living_street even if
all the ways around it are.
Wikipedia isn't the best example making a judgement call on this,
either; our own wiki is much better in this regard. Our wiki has
tagging examples and graphics that seem to make it pretty clear that the
living_street tag applies only to ways that are actually living_streets,
not all ways in an area.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dservice
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Living_street
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Re: [OSM-talk] tagging tyre/tire services?
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Hi! > > Didn't find in Map Features page how to tag a service that > can mount, unmount and repair motorcar tyres. This is a quite > important POI for a car traveller. > > Looking at tagwatch, I've found a small usage of service=tire, > 55 instances in Europe. > > Let's define an official tag for this and document it in Map Features > page. An advice from native English speakers is required: > > which word is better for tag key: "service" or "shop"? > which word is correct for tag value: "tire" or "tyre"? > service=tyre I think would be the better choice out of those options. -- http://short.ie/nenagh/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Earth equivalent for Openstreetmap
El Martes, 9 de Junio de 2009, Tanveer Singh escribió: > Is there a similar software in openstreetmap which downloads openstreetmap > data, allows me to create a track based on that. I think that Viking should do the trick. It isn't as fancy as GEarth, but it will let you create waypoints in a variety of formats. Have a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] tagging tyre/tire services?
Hi! Didn't find in Map Features page how to tag a service that can mount, unmount and repair motorcar tyres. This is a quite important POI for a car traveller. Looking at tagwatch, I've found a small usage of service=tire, 55 instances in Europe. Let's define an official tag for this and document it in Map Features page. An advice from native English speakers is required: which word is better for tag key: "service" or "shop"? which word is correct for tag value: "tire" or "tyre"? -- Totus tuus, Glebius. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Earth equivalent for Openstreetmap
Did you have a look to Marble ? Iam not sure it can draw a track... but it the most google earth like for OSM AFAIK. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Tanveer Singh wrote: > Sometimes when I have to plan a route, I can simple open the city in > google-earth, and then draw a path, and save it as kml, and then convert it > to the format my GPS understands. > So In GPS I just have to load the track and follow it. > Is there a similar software in openstreetmap which downloads openstreetmap > data, allows me to create a track based on that. > I am not interested in ariel imagery, just the map. > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Google Earth equivalent for Openstreetmap
Sometimes when I have to plan a route, I can simple open the city in google-earth, and then draw a path, and save it as kml, and then convert it to the format my GPS understands. So In GPS I just have to load the track and follow it. Is there a similar software in openstreetmap which downloads openstreetmap data, allows me to create a track based on that. I am not interested in ariel imagery, just the map. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted feature for API 0.7 ??
2009/6/9 Nop : > > Hi! > > Dave Stubbs schrieb: >> >> Which just tells you those aren't the "appropriate tags" of which matt >> speaks. >> >> Careful selection of tags means that nothing existing needs to change, >> unless it's to make life easier for the user by adding filtering >> features. > > That is exactly the problem. When you add things that are not supposed to be > visible by default, as they describe past or future objects, the items are > there. And by no amount of tagging can you make them go away, that requires > awareness of your tags and active filtering on part of all applications. > > Or can you please describe how an "appropriate" tag should look like e.g. > for an object that will be torn down next year, so that it disappears from > the map at the appropriate time without changing the renderers? > Umm.. you can't. And why would you want to? It's a wiki. You can edit it. highway=motorway demolition_date=2009-09-01 then, on 1st September a mapper can come along, actually check the thing /was/ demolished (possibly prompted by some clever application) and replace with: highway=demolished_motorway demolition_date=2009-09-01 18:03:05+00 Anybody who wants to try to be clever can add knowledge of the demolition_date tag to their renderer/router. Anybody who doesn't will have the motorway disappear from their maps when they next update. Same goes for construction... highway=under_construction_motorway construction_complete_date=2009-10-12 to highway=motorway construction_complete_date=2011-08-05 The unaware renderer will see the motorway when it gets an update. The aware renderer will start displaying the motorway about 2 years too early, although you can expect the mapper to have updated the expected completion date by then as no doubt the political fallout of yet another multi-million pound government overrun gets splashed over the papers. None of this stops the ways appearing in the editor, but as has been mentioned, there's more than one reason why that could be a bad idea anyway. This kind of thing comes under "unless it's to make life easier for the user by adding filtering features". Dave PS. I'm not actually advocating those particular tags names, or even saying they're a terrible idea, or that governments can't deliver big projects on time :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Open*Map.* ?
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Russ Nelson wrote: > Is there a comprehensive listing of all Open*Map.* sites anywhere? Not comprehensive, but there is a list on the Wikipedia page. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
