Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 3 June 2010 16:26, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
 wrote:
> Hi,
> here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,

I didn't actually mean everything in that sense, for example the nodes
on a road don't all need unique IDs nor should they get them, but at
the same time a single node might need 2 unique IDs, one for the
building and one for the business occupying the building.

In any case I think I mixed up 2 issues in the one email, that is
assigning objects unique IDs and then distributing those unique IDs on
stickers as a kind of PR/advertising exercise.

To cover the first issue about using/assigning unique IDs against OSM
objects, I've written a wiki page with some initial thoughts on the
subject:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID

As for promotion, I'll leave that till UUIDs are sorted.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Pieren]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, John Smith wrote:

> On 3 June 2010 16:26, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> > here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,
>
> I didn't actually mean everything in that sense, for example the nodes
> on a road don't all need unique IDs nor should they get them, but at
> the same time a single node might need 2 unique IDs, one for the
> building and one for the business occupying the building.
>
>
At the end, you just translate a lat/lon + tag to a number when you can
simply request a tag by its lat/lon to an appropriate api.
The unique ID already exists, it's the osm_id. Why should we recreate the
wheel ? But it's true that the ID is not permanent and cannot really be
trusted. URL's in Wikipedia have the same issue. What about trying to
improve the persistence of the ID by using a similar mechanism : when an
editor sees that a node has been replaced by another node or polygon "with
the same meaning (or set of tags)", it could insert a kind of "#REDIRECT"
into the removed object redirecting to the new osm_id

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 3 June 2010 17:56, Pieren  wrote:
> At the end, you just translate a lat/lon + tag to a number when you can
> simply request a tag by its lat/lon to an appropriate api.

This doesn't cover the case of where a business moves...

> The unique ID already exists, it's the osm_id. Why should we recreate the
> wheel ? But it's true that the ID is not permanent and cannot really be

You answered your own question...

> trusted. URL's in Wikipedia have the same issue. What about trying to
> improve the persistence of the ID by using a similar mechanism : when an
> editor sees that a node has been replaced by another node or polygon "with
> the same meaning (or set of tags)", it could insert a kind of "#REDIRECT"
> into the removed object redirecting to the new osm_id

This doesn't work because not every object needs a unique ID, some
objects need multiple unique IDs and some objects need to share the
same unique ID, or create a relation and use the unique ID on the
relation, although this could be another method to tag similar/same
objects without needing to use a relation. Redirecting won't be
effective in the example I listed on the wiki page of a building
having a unique ID and a tenant having a unique ID and the tenant
moving to a new building, the unique ID can follow the tenant but not
effect the existing building information like address.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Andy Allan]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Simon Biber  wrote:

> Apart from the loss of ID and history, this also affects clients such as 
> Mapzen POI Collector. Once a point of interest is no longer a single node, 
> Mapzen does not consider it as a point of interest or allow it to be edited. 
> It even disappears from the map entirely for several weeks, until Mapzen's 
> base layer is re-rendered to show the area.
>
> Does anyone have a good solution for this?

When I was working on the POI collector roadmap it was always the
intention to interpret "point of interest areas" as well as "point of
interest nodes". I'm not sure if any such areas are being dealt with
yet - the idea was to synthesize a POI in the middle of the area to
let you change the tags, but not change the geometry. We'd need an
update from one of the CloudMade team.

Feel free to keep converting nodes into areas when you feel it's appropriate.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: Software goes on, brain goes off...

[Steve Chilton]

talking of annoying . has this thread not been to death?!

-Original Message- 
From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org on behalf of John Smith 
Sent: Wed 02/06/2010 15:16 
To: Anthony 
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: Software goes on, brain goes off...



On 3 June 2010 00:15, Anthony  wrote:
> They could always require people to log in.  Or require people to log 
in if
> they want to put up with the annoying terms and conditions only once.

This woman is claiming she wasn't warned the route might be bad, so to
ensure that people don't forget they agreed to view the warning only
once, everyone will be forced to view it every time regardless.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Pieren]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:07 AM, John Smith wrote:

>
> This doesn't cover the case of where a business moves...
>
>
>
What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
new address.

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 3 June 2010 19:39, Pieren  wrote:
> What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
> objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
> new address.

Businesses are only one application, I'm not sure what 3rd party sites
are using OSM IDs but Flickr and osmfuel.org are 2 that I know of and
every time some new use for OSM IDs occur people always seem to
comment about why it's such a bad idea to use OSM IDs, I'm trying to
come up with a better suggestion.

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Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

[Ed Avis]

To find the official name of the street you can ask the local authority or
whichever body is responsible for naming streets.  They may also promise to
update the street signs in due course.  In the meantime put the correct data
in OSM, together with a note citing the response you received.

-- 
Ed Avis 


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Re: [OSM-talk] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India

[Kate Chapman]

I just want to second that the Sahana crew is great.  They are
interested in collaborating between the OSM Humanitarian tagging
scheme and Sahana.  The idea being to bridge between the two systems
to utilize Sahana to track things that wouldn't be put in OSM (things
like people for example).

RELIEF is a quarterly exercise in the U.S. were different projects get
together to collaborate.  This was discussed and worked on at the
previous one a couple months ago.

Thanks,

Kate

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Tim McNamara
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> If there are any OSM members in the sub-continent, I recommend this event.
> Sahana makes heavy use of Open Street Maps, and GIS systems in general. It's
> a great framework for developing applications in the humanitarian & disaster
> response domains. I'm sure many of the participants would be interested in
> collaborating.
>
> My best,
>
> Tim McNamara
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Michael Howden 
> Date: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 6:20 PM
> Subject: [Sahana-user] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India
> To: sahana-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, Sahana developers' list
> , sahana-e...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> UPCOMING EVENTS:
> -
>
> SahanaCamp
> 2nd - 5th July 20100
> For Programmers and Web Designers who are interested in building Information
> Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development
>
> Sahana Workshop "Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and
> Development"
> 3rd July 2010
> For people working for NGOs/UN/Government/Other Agencies and others
> interested in Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development
>
>
> Location:
> Sarai-CSDS
> 29 Rajpur Road
> Civil Lines
> Delhi - 110054
> India
>
> Cost:
> FREE
>
> Applications:
> Spaces are limited. Applications close 14th June.
>
> Sahana Workshop:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHkwMEs0QzZmcnQ4YlVHMFR5U1JB
> ZXc6MQ
> SahanaCamp (includes Sahana Workshop):
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dG9IcHJ6SlNCWG5COTFfbUVaSExW
> R1E6MQ
>
>
> Sahana
> ---
> Sahana is a Free and Open Source Disaster Management System which was
> started in Sri Lanka after the 2004 Tsunami. It is a web based collaboration
> tool that addresses the common coordination problems during a disaster from
> finding missing people, managing aid, managing volunteers, tracking camps
> effectively between Government groups, the civil society (NGOs) and the
> people affected by disasters.
> www.sahanafoundation.org
>
>
> Details
> 
> Sahana Workshop is a one day event which will provide an introduction to how
> information technology can be used to assist organisations working in
> disasters and development. It will include opportunities to share
> experiences and lessons learned with others who have worked in this area.
> You'll get hand on experience using the Sahana Eden
> (http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/) platform which was deployed in response
> to the Earthquake in Haiti and includes SMS and Mapping technologies.
> Finally, you'll have the opportunity to share your real world needs for
> information technology solutions to provide input for the future development
> of Sahana.
>
> SahanaCamp is a four day long intensive event, for programmers and web
> designers who are involved or interested in helping organizations working in
> Disasters and Development. You will be introduced to programming in Python
> on the Sahana Eden Rapid Application Development (RAD) platform. You will be
> developing real solutions to meet real needs such as Logistics,
> Organisational Management and Mapping or according to your needs. You'll be
> working aside members of the core Sahana Eden development team, who will be
> there to support and encourage you along. SahanaCamp would be ideal for
> programmers and web designers who are developing solution for Disasters and
> Development organizations.
> Participants are expected to have existing programming or design skills (and
> will certainly learn some new ones during the camp!).
>
> Venue
> --
> Sarai is a programme of the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies,
> (CSDS)  one of India's leading research institutes with a commitment to
> critical and dissenting thought and a focus on critically expanding the
> horizons of the discourse on development, particularly with reference to
> South Asia. We are a coalition of researchers and practitioners with a
> commitment towards developing a model of research-practice that is public
> and creative, in which multiple voices express and render themselves in a
> variety of forms.
> www.sarai.net
>
> For more information, please contact mich...@sahanafoundation.org or visit
> http://wiki.sahanafoundation.org/doku.php/community:sahanacamp.
>
> Could you please share this invitation amongst your networks and with other
> who may be interested.
>
> Regards
>
> Michael Howden
> mich...@sahanafoundation.org
>
>
> -

[OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

for the first time, this week's .osm.bz2 planet has an eleven-digit 
size (10026036818 bytes). That's up 20% from beginning of the year. In 
2007, we had an 88% increase in the same time span; in 2008 it was 36%, 
and in 2009  it was 19%. Of course these numbers say little since we had 
numerous large imports, format changes, and even changed the bz2 
implementation along the way.

The uncompressed XML file ist just a few bytes short of 150 GB.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk] transhumance routes

[James Stewart]

In Spain there is a large network of historic transhumance routes (cañadas or 
Viás Pecuarias http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADa_pecuaria) 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumance)  that we have started a discussion 
about how to tag. So far we are creating relations that link the various bits 
of path, track and road that make them up 
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vias_Pecuarias_de_España). However we need 
consensus on how to tag them, since they are an international feature - 
primarily, what to call them.
In England they are called  'drovers' roads' 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drovers'_road) en Australia  'stock routes',  USA 
 'cattle trail', French 'chemin de transhumance'.

Any suggestions on what to call them. route= "transhumance" could be a more 
academic solution, route='livestock' a bit more agricultural.

In some countries transhumance is still a practice, so the routes are 'live'. 
In Spain they are historic, but many exist and are a point of controversy 
between landowners and ecologists/historical right of way people. 

James


-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

[Oliver (skobbler)]

Hi,

>Don't get me wrong, as long as we have this license we should insist on
>people following it, if only to respect our work. But by making
>comparisons like the above you're already playing what I like to call
>the "music industry game", which is neatly illustrated here:

The music (and software) industry already gets nervous when people are
consuming the content for free. They ignore the fact that most people
wouldn't have spent money to purchase the content as they consume it only as
long as the costs are zero.

In regards to OSM I think there is big difference between a breach of
license where just the ego of members of community is harmed and someone is
taking financial advantage by a breaching of license. I was trying to make
suggestion that the first one can even lead to an advantage to OSM and the
latter should lead to consequences.

It might be that my proposal doesn't work as every contributor could take
legal action and therefore a statement of the OSMF would be void. However, I
still thinks it makes more sense to come up with a generic process rather
than to discuss every case of a lack of attribution with 100 posts.

Regards,
Oliver
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-Potential-huge-License-violation-anyone-know-anything-about-this-tp5132343p5135228.html
Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk] transhumance routes

[John Smith]

On 3 June 2010 23:34, James Stewart  wrote:
> In England they are called  'drovers' roads' 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drovers'_road) en Australia  'stock routes',  
> USA  'cattle trail', French 'chemin de transhumance'.

When in doubt people usually opt for the UK english terms, in this
case it also seems to be the shortest, the important thing is to
properly document what you do more than the specific term you use.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Anthony]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:26 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com <
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,
> we might focus on making some form of permalink that is usable upon
> request. Like for wikipedia articles etc, that we can link to and be
> relatively sure that the link will still be there. Some form of watch
> tool that would inform the user that the permalink he created is
> broken.
> It would be easier to maintain a list of "don't break me" links than
> to rework the whole system.
> mike
>

Okay, here's a plan.  I took some of the detail from
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID but adapted it a
bit:

*From the URL for any node/way/relation (or lat/lon pair) one can click on a
button "make permanent link".
*The node/way/relation gets tagged with uuid=*, where * is generated using
an algorithm expected to create a universally unique id (I'll let someone
more expert determine how, but I was thinking some sort of hash on the xml
of the feature itself plus the time).  If a lat/lon pair is created then a
new node is created with that uuid.
*A wiki page is set up where http://domain/wiki/UUID has text, links, and a
slippy map.  The slippy map highlights the element which has the UUID.  The
text is meant to be brief - only enough to uniquely identify the "thing"
(perhaps the description text could even be duplicated in a uuid_description
tag).  Links would be used for the actual interesting data about the
"thing".
*If more than one element points to the same UUID, this is an error - use a
relation if you want to do this.
*Mappers are encouraged to check http://domain/wiki/UUID before deleting or
repurposing nodes/ways/relations.
*A bot goes through regularly checking for additions, deletions, drastic
changes, duplicate UUIDs, etc., and adds them to a list for people to
manually check/fix.
*All external sources are encouraged to point to UUIDs, not to the element
id.

Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).  I felt that this
overcomplicates things from the standpoint of someone clicking on "make
permanent link" - they shouldn't have to know anything about the internal
workings of OSM and I want to maintain the flexibility to tag *anything*,
not just a predetermined list of things.  I suppose this could be allowed
for advanced users who want to do things by hand, but it's not in this plan.

Anthony
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Anthony]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Anthony  wrote:

> Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
> on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).
>

Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be "permanent").

Still, I'd prefer uuid=1;2;3 to uuid:*=*.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 00:07, Anthony  wrote:
> *The node/way/relation gets tagged with uuid=*, where * is generated using
> an algorithm expected to create a universally unique id (I'll let someone
> more expert determine how, but I was thinking some sort of hash on the xml
> of the feature itself plus the time).  If a lat/lon pair is created then a
> new node is created with that uuid.

This is why I included links to RFC 4122, this already covers
generating UUIDs in a standard way and that way we avoid trying to
reinvent the wheel, plus there is already UUID libraries.

> *A wiki page is set up where http://domain/wiki/UUID has text, links, and a
> slippy map.  The slippy map highlights the element which has the UUID.  The
> text is meant to be brief - only enough to uniquely identify the "thing"
> (perhaps the description text could even be duplicated in a uuid_description
> tag).  Links would be used for the actual interesting data about the
> "thing".

This wiki page could also contain a list of existing references IDs
from import sources, that way if you know the source and the ID from
the source you can find the OSM UUID.

> Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
> on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).  I felt that this
> overcomplicates things from the standpoint of someone clicking on "make
> permanent link" - they shouldn't have to know anything about the internal

I disagree, lets call shop and building UUID tag types, when you want
to create a unique ID and only one of these UUID tag types exists it
simply gets added as uuid=* or uuid:=*, alternatively
if there is multiple a dialog could simply ask which UUID tag type
they wish to add, similar to other JOSM preset dialogs.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

To extend Anthony's idea slightly further it might be useful to create
a bot script that if you want a UUID for an object in the OSM DB, it
can tag the object with a new UUID and return that, or simply return
the any existing UUIDs, this would take care of things like
Flickr/osmfuel/wikipedia needing to find out the UUID if they get a
node/way/relation ID.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 00:20, Anthony  wrote:
> Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
> two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
> keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be "permanent").

This may require multiple relations against a single node or area
otherwise you won't know which uuid would apply to which store.

> Still, I'd prefer uuid=1;2;3 to uuid:*=*.

The benefit of sub-tagging instead of tag stuffing is it is more
efficient for things to parse.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren  wrote:

>
> What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
> objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
> new address.

I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
discussion, which is "What does an permanent object mean?"

A common thing for me to do as a mapper is manually collect POIs while
walking, upload them, and then later, using sources like imagry, get
rid of my nodes and replace them with ways (eg buildings).

So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
move with the library, or does it stay with the building?

- Serge

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 00:38, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:
> I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
> question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
> discussion, which is "What does an permanent object mean?"

There are no permanent objects in OSM, some just last longer than others.

> So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
> What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
> do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
> my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
> move with the library, or does it stay with the building?

That ended up the point of this thread, figuring a method to tag any
object, doesn't matter if it's a node or a way or an area or a
relation, and have a way to refer to that object, even if that object
changes from being a node to being an area. The actual object is less
important, in this context, than the unique ID number keeping tracking
of it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Emilie Laffray]

On 3 June 2010 15:38, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren  wrote:
>
> >
> > What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for
> persistent
> > objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find
> the
> > new address.
>
> I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
> question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
> discussion, which is "What does an permanent object mean?"
>
> A common thing for me to do as a mapper is manually collect POIs while
> walking, upload them, and then later, using sources like imagry, get
> rid of my nodes and replace them with ways (eg buildings).
>
> So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
> What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
> do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
> my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
> move with the library, or does it stay with the building?
>
>
The idea behind John's idea is that the permanent UUID is linked to your
library. So if your library moves, you need to move the UUID tags to the new
building. It is meant to be associated with the "moral" entity like a
library, a shop, etc... "Moral entity" might not be the best term but it is
close, I think.

Emilie Laffray
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Anthony]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Emilie Laffray wrote:

> On 3 June 2010 15:38, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren  wrote:
>> So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
>> What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
>> do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
>> my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
>> move with the library, or does it stay with the building?
>>
>>
> The idea behind John's idea is that the permanent UUID is linked to your
> library. So if your library moves, you need to move the UUID tags to the new
> building. It is meant to be associated with the "moral" entity like a
> library, a shop, etc... "Moral entity" might not be the best term but it is
> close, I think.
>

Yes.  The way I see it, the "permanent object"/"moral entity" would be
whatever you describe in the text.  So if you put in the text "the Texas
School Book Depository", the uuid should move when the book depository
moves.  If you put in the text "the building where Oswald shot Kennedy", the
uuid shouldn't move when the book depository moves.  I'd think in most cases
you'd choose the former rather than the latter, but in some cases you might
really want to link to the latter (such as the example given).
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 00:58, Anthony  wrote:
> Yes.  The way I see it, the "permanent object"/"moral entity" would be
> whatever you describe in the text.  So if you put in the text "the Texas
> School Book Depository", the uuid should move when the book depository
> moves.  If you put in the text "the building where Oswald shot Kennedy", the
> uuid shouldn't move when the book depository moves.  I'd think in most cases
> you'd choose the former rather than the latter, but in some cases you might
> really want to link to the latter (such as the example given).

Actually that's a better example than the one I thought up, I'll add
it to the wiki page.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[John Smith]

On 3 June 2010 23:01, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>for the first time, this week's .osm.bz2 planet has an eleven-digit
> size (10026036818 bytes). That's up 20% from beginning of the year. In

Do we really have to stoop to GB v GiB debate to make things look better?

I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[Alexander Menk]

Hi John,

John Smith wrote:
> It's come up in the past about unique IDs for objects, some people use
> OSM IDs for this, however someone has come up with a different way to
> do this, make a QR code and stick it to the object and use the QR
> codes ID number:
> 
> http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-add-anything-to-internet-of.html
> 
> I wonder how hard it would be to have OSM stickers with unique ID
> codes and ask business owners to put them up in their windows?

we are doing something like this here in Ethiopia.

We assign OSM POIs (IDs) with short names (www.addismap.com/name). We 
have prepared stickers and write with a perma marker the name part.

No QR code anyways, as nobody would have the sufficient mobile phones to 
decode that stuff.

Greetings from Addis Ababa,

Alexander

www.addismap.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Kai Krueger]

John Smith-7 wrote:
> 
> I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
> user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.
> 

Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at least
one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Some other statistics about users that might be interesting though. In the
past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5 days ago.
An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago. 2942
Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who have been
with OSM for more than 500 days.

So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which might be quite
interesting too.

Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Julio Costa Zambelli]

Dear Kai,

Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this
bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Julio Costa
OpenStreetMap Chile
http://www.openstreetmap.cl/


On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kai Krueger  wrote:

>
>
> John Smith-7 wrote:
> >
> > I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
> > user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.
> >
>
> Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at
> least
> one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
> up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
> least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.
>
> Some other statistics about users that might be interesting though. In the
> past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5 days ago.
> An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago. 2942
> Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who have been
> with OSM for more than 500 days.
>
> So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
> mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which might be
> quite
> interesting too.
>
> Kai
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Planet-file-now-at-10-GB-tp5135055p5136350.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Jukka Rahkonen]

Julio Costa Zambelli  openstreetmap.cl> writes:

> Dear Kai,Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in
this bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?Thank you
very much.Regards,Julio Costa
> 

Hi,

Itoworld has a tool for this, see 
http://www.itoworld.com/static/openstreetmap.html



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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Milo van der Linden]

I always use the ITO OpenStreetMap environment for specific bbox and 
time/date edit queries:


http://www.itoworld.com/static/openstreetmap.html


On 06/03/2010 09:23 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli wrote:

Dear Kai,

Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in 
this bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?


Thank you very much.

Regards,

Julio Costa
OpenStreetMap Chile
http://www.openstreetmap.cl/


On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kai Krueger > wrote:




John Smith-7 wrote:
>
> I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
> user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.
>

Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who
have at least
one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they
don't turn
up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts
have done at
least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Some other statistics about users that might be interesting
though. In the
past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5
days ago.
An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago.
2942
Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who
have been
with OSM for more than 500 days.

So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which
might be quite
interesting too.

Kai

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[OSM-talk] H.O.T. Kit Fundraiser

[Kate Chapman]

Hey All,

Nicolas Chavent and I are heading to Haiti on June 14th.  On previous
missions we left behind computers/GPS Units and printer scanners so
people could continue mapping.

At the moment there is no further funding for more kits, but we are
going to be moving out to additional cities in Haiti.

We are doing a last minute fundraiser to see if we can get money for
more kits: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/weblog/?page_id=13

If you want to help that would be most amazing,

Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 04:32, Kai Krueger  wrote:
> Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at least
> one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
> up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
> least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Thanks for that, imho this is a more realistic number, although I'm
guessing that number would also includes bots although it may be
difficult to know which accounts are bots...

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 05:23, Julio Costa Zambelli  wrote:
> Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this
> bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?

JOSM has a changeset panel, which would give you duplicate users, and
has been quite useful to me in the past.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 00:20, Anthony  wrote:
> Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
> two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
> keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be "permanent").

David Dean has suggested Flickr would probably be more interested in
building UUIDs than tenants, so this is as good a reason as any to
automatically allocate multiple UUIDs based on what the object is
tagged with when a UUID is requested.

I've also incorporated most of your previous emails suggestions into
the wiki page, it might be useful to get a comment from Flickr or
Wikipedia about our current thinking, since they are the ones most
likely to benefit from this.

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[OSM-talk] 2D Barcodes for locations

[simon]

> The 'shortlink' does not describe an object with OSM, it describes a
location on the planet (akin to a lat/long).
> ie:
> http://osm.org/go/0EEQCvG5-?m
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shortlink

I wanted to follow on from this idea a little as I think that there is
some potential here, if someone wants to run with it.

QR-Codes and DataMatrix have limitations in how much data and what type of
data can be stored, which results in varying sized barcodes.

For DataMatrix (which I have some experience in) there are several
'alphabets' with special sequences to switch between them. If the
shortlink was all upper, all lower or case independant this would be
better, but they are already defined to use the following encoding.

--
  # array of 64 chars to encode 6 bits. this is almost like base64
encoding, but
  # the symbolic chars are different, as base64's + and / aren't very  #
URL-friendly.
  ARRAY = ('A'..'Z').to_a + ('a'..'z').to_a + ('0'..'9').to_a + ['_','@']
--

Which means that the maximum compression can not happen, but link can be
represented in Text, C40, ASCII, Base256.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.507859&lon=-0.127828&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
compresses to
http://osm.org/go/euu4gZ_It--?m

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.507859&lon=-0.127828&zoom=10&layers=B000FTF
compresses to
http://osm.org/go/euu4gZ?m

I've attached some example images,
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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

[Alan Mintz]

At 2010-06-03 12:23, Julio Costa Zambelli wrote:
>Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this 
>bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?


To see changesets in a specific area, browse:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/history?bbox=MinLong,MinLat,MaxLong,MaxLat

Note that it includes a lot of "noise" generated by bots that define huge 
areas for their changesets. You'd have to download the individual 
changesets, then walk through them and get the min/max lat/lon to find the 
"real" edited area. It would be nice if, on upload, the API would 
automatically do this and add a tag with that info.

--
Alan Mintz 


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Re: [OSM-talk] 2D Barcodes for locations

[John Smith]

On 4 June 2010 13:17,   wrote:
> QR-Codes and DataMatrix have limitations in how much data and what type of
> data can be stored, which results in varying sized barcodes.

The limitations of QR codes, if we embed a URL, should be plenty, even
without any compression, eg:

http://osm.org/qr/21d906f1-7a93-49f5-beee-7c126b840a85

Although the QR code could be smaller if less error correction was
used, or smaller pixels, or we could make them bigger and have the OSM
URL underneath...
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[OSM-talk] hot.openstreetmap.org

[Roman Neumüller]

FYI: opening hot.openstreetmap.org just shows the root files -
should better redirect to weblog/ .
(favicon.* files have 0 bytes)

Roman

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