[Talk-cz] Spolek - oficialni udaje

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, oficialni udaje o spolku doplneny na stranku na webu:
https://openstreetmap.cz/organizace

Bye

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[talk-au] Simpson Desert QAA line

[Warin]

Hi

To me the QAA line runs east -west. It does not include the tracks that 
run south off it.


This change occurred in 2012 .. change set comment indicates it was done 
while the lake was flooded.


While these tracks exist .. I don't think they carry the name 'QAA line'.

I have 'named' theses 'alternate QAA route' and restored the original 
QAA Line names to the right places.





I have mapped the red sand dune (Big Red and Little Red are part of it.) 
I plan on mapping the bottom bit out - it is like the palm of your hand 
with the fingers going north being the sand hills that QAA Line crosses. 
the should give an indication of what hte rest is like. Might do the 
last of them similarly near pernie (sp?) bore. Not mapping all of them!









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[talk-au] Hello!

[David Wales]

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Description: PGP/MIME Versions Identification


encrypted.asc
Description: OpenPGP encrypted message
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[OSM-ja] 提案:投票中 [Japan tagging/Access transportation mode]

[yuu hayashi]

Proposal - Voting - Japan tagging/Access transportation mode

hayashiです

2018-12-03 に 「Japan tagging」のページに「車両種別」のタグ付け指針を記載しましょうという提案を「Proposal -
Japan tagging/Access transportation mode」として提起しました。

提案ページ:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging/Access_transportation_mode

提案提出から２週間が過ぎたので'承認投票'を開始します。

投票ページ:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging/Access_transportation_mode#Voting_.2F_.E6.8A.95.E7.A5.A8

今回の提案は「Japan_tagging」への提案（日本国内限定の提案）ですので、Taik-jaでの投票もカウントしようと考えていますが、可能な限り
osmwiki での投票をお願いいたします。

OpenStreetMapの発展へ 投票による協力をお願いいたします。


< 関連情報 >
提案の議論ページ:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA_talk:Japan_tagging/Access_transportation_mode#Voting_.2F_.E6.8A.95.E7.A5.A8.E4.B8.AD

OSM提案プロセス:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%BB%E3%82%B9
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Re: [Talk-it] query con oggetti vicini

[demon.box]

Andrea Albani wrote
> [out:json][timeout:25];
> node[noexit=yes]({{bbox}});
> way(bn)[highway=path];
> (._;>;);
> out;

Massimo Rispetto!! Questa query funzione alle grande ;-)))

GRAZIE

--enrico





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Re: [Talk-it] query con oggetti vicini

[Andrea Albani]

Il giorno sab 15 dic 2018 alle ore 19:58 liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu
 ha scritto:

> Il 15/12/18 19:20, demon_box ha scritto:
> > beh... tanto vale la pena dirla tutta
> > vorrei intercettare tutti i noexit=yes connessi ud un highway=path
> > forse il mio ragionamento di utilizzare la funzione "around" non è
> nemmeno
> > quello corretto...
> > grazie
> > --enrico
> >
> >
>
> Per quello basta usare overpass-turbo, inquadrare l'area, e mettere nel
> wizard:
>
> highway=path and noexit=yes in bbox, e ti trova tutti i tag connessi
> alla path nell'area inquadrata nella finestra a lato editor.
>
>
Scusa Simone, ma questa non ritorna nulla a meno di errori nei dati.
Infatti guardando quanto generato dal wizard come query su way e nodi trovi:

node["highway"="path"]["noexit"="yes"]({{bbox}});
way["highway"="path"]["noexit"="yes"]({{bbox}});

Entrambe estraggono nodi/way solo quando hanno i due tag CONTEMPORANEAMENTE
presenti, ma un highway=path si mette solo su una way (quindi nessun nodo
avrà un match) e noexit=yes va solo sui nodi (e quindi nessuna way sarà
selezionata).

Una possibile via è selezionare tutti i nodi noexit=yes nel bbox e quindi
con way(bn) ["highway"="path"] selezionare solo quei nodi appartenenti alle
way con tag highway=path

[out:json][timeout:25];
node[noexit=yes]({{bbox}});
way(bn)[highway=path];
(._;>;);
out;

se vuoi ottenere in output i soli nodi noexit=yes sempre appartenenti ad un
path selezioni le highway=path e quindi estrai i nodi con il tag corretto

[out:json][timeout:25];
way[highway=path]({{bbox}});
node(w)[noexit=yes];
out;

Ciao
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[Talk-it] UJEM (Unidentified JOSM error message)

[Volker Schmidt]

Da oggi mi appare un UJEM su ogni spostamento o modifica della visuale un
popup che mi dice:
"Error retrieving Cluster(s)
Would you like to suppress further notifications"

Qualcun altro l'ha visto. Qualcuno sa che cosa è?

Chiedo qua prima di disabilitare uno a uno i plugin.

Grazie

Volker
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[Talk-cz] Zacal import trafostanic v Praze

[r00t]

Ahoj,

Dneska jsem zacal s importem, zatim jsem narazil jenom na male chybky v
nastaveni POI importeru.

POI importer s datasetem jsem nahral na server, pristupny je zde:
http://www.r00t.cz/tmp/trafostanice/#map=14/50.1544/14.5048=Trafo
(modre jsou uplne hotove, jinak klasicka barevna stupnice)

Je to spis pro sledovani prubehu nez jako pozvanka pro ostatni k mapovani,
protoze nestaci jenom naklikat POI do mapy. Je potreba rucne kopirovat tagy na
budovy atd., neni to tak jednoduche jako treba postovni schranky. Ale pokud
by nekdo mel opravdu velkou chut se toho zucastnit, presny postup muzu sepsat...

Zatim jsem zacal v oblasti Cakovic a Dablic, hodne mist tam znam a muzu tak
snadno kontrolovat dataset se skutecnosti. Budu pokracovat v nasledujicich
dnech, jde to docela rychle.

r00tcz


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 15/12/2018 à 10:41, Christian Quest - cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :

Le droit de citation existe, mais le choix fait pas OSM n'est pas de 
s'appuyer dessus.


De plus on ne cite pas, on intègre ce qui est différent.

D'accord avec Althio.

En plus : demander les droits c'est plutôt facile, aller sur place 
découvrir les objets cités lève le problème.


Et permet de savoir si les objets en question ont un nom (et non un 
numéro de page ? qui aurait plus la place dans une umap).


Jean-Yvon

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Re: [Talk-de] Feature Proposal - Abstimmung von "Empfehlung zur Verwendung von Multipolygonen"

[Volker]

Trotzdem habe ich abgelehnt. Gründe habe ich hier und im Forum ja dargelegt


Am 15.12.2018 um 14:37 schrieb Tigerfell:

Hallo,

nach längerer Diskussion steht nun ein Proposal, welches sich mit der Verwendung von 
Multipolygonen ausschließlich in Deutschland beschäftigt, im Wiki zur Abstimmung . 
Dieses folgt im Wesentlichen der Diskussion im Forum 
(https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64439 
).

Das Proposal befindet sich im Wiki unter 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Proposed_features/Empfehlung_zur_Verwendung_von_Multipolygonen
 


Ich möchte darauf hinweisen, dass wir uns auf die Bezeichnung "Empfehlung" geeinigt 
haben. Damit ist gemeint, dass die Erfassung gemäß der "Empfehlung" durchgeführt werden 
sollte, andere Vorschläge aber auch zukünftig nicht verhindert werden sollen, vielmehr soll eine 
einheitliche Vorgehensweise vorgeschlagen werden.

Viele Grüße
Tigerfell

PS: Wesentliche Diskussionspunkte im Forum:
Motivation: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=725141#p725141 

möglicher Konflikt mit "on the groud mapping": 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729026#p729026 

"Verklebte" Multipolygone schädlich?: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729019#p729019 

Von der Empfehlung abweichende Einzelfälle: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=727561#p727561 

Nicht zusammenhängende Teile von Multipolygonen: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729828#p729828 

Das sind sicher nicht alle Punkte...
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[Talk-br] usuário addicionando addr:street em highway

[Gerald Weber]

Oi Pessoal

este usuário:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Leal_Rastreamento
está sistematicamente adicionando addr:street em highways, repetindo a
informação na tag nome, junto com addr:city como neste exemplo
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/301697506

o nome do usuário já levanta suspeitas sobre a intenção

acredito que vai ter de ser feita uma limpeza aqui :(

abraço

Gerald
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Re: [Talk-it] query con oggetti vicini

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 15/12/18 19:20, demon_box ha scritto:

beh... tanto vale la pena dirla tutta
vorrei intercettare tutti i noexit=yes connessi ud un highway=path
forse il mio ragionamento di utilizzare la funzione "around" non è nemmeno
quello corretto...
grazie
--enrico




Per quello basta usare overpass-turbo, inquadrare l'area, e mettere nel 
wizard:


highway=path and noexit=yes in bbox, e ti trova tutti i tag connessi 
alla path nell'area inquadrata nella finestra a lato editor.



--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-it] query con oggetti vicini

[demon_box]

beh... tanto vale la pena dirla tutta
vorrei intercettare tutti i noexit=yes connessi ud un highway=path
forse il mio ragionamento di utilizzare la funzione "around" non è nemmeno
quello corretto...
grazie
--enrico



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[Talk-ca] Voting for the two OSMF board positions

[John Whelan]

Of the 1057 voters in this election, 680 cast ballots. Tobias Knerr and 
Joost Schouppe have been elected.


There has been some discussion about the number of board members with 
HOT connections, my understanding is currently the board has a couple of 
past presidents of HOT on it.


OSMF only has 1,057 eligible voters and recently 100 new members joined 
from the same IP address at roughly the same time. They were not 
eligible to vote in this year's elections but will be in next year's 
elections.


The wider the membership the easier it is to represent a wider range of 
interests and the less OSM has to depend on corporate donations so 
please consider joining.


https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Join

Many thanks

Cheerio John

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Re: [Talk-it] Tablet con Osmand al posto del navigatore per il 118

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 15. Dec 2018, at 10:10, Aury88  wrote:
> 
> non mi sembra svenga vietato, ma semplicemente ne viene sconsigliato
> l'utilizzo per servizi di emergenza.


è chiaro: “You may not use the Services to: ... 
Operate dangerous businesses such as emergency services or air traffic control, 
where the use or failure of the Services could lead to death, personal injury 
or significant property damage;”

may not = non puoi

però come già detto, si riferisce ai servizi della osmf (api, web services, 
sito) e non ai dati

Ciao, Martin 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 15 December 2018, Colin Smale wrote:
> "without access to the same sources" ... what if there is only one
> source of truth? With these non-observable items like admin
> boundaries that is often the case. Does "independent verifiability"
> now mean that there must be at least two sources that agree before
> this criterion is fulfilled? What qualifies as a source, anyway? If
> two people look at the same tree, is that one source or two? Such
> observations are always ephemeral anyway.

Independent verifiability means exactly what it says - that anyone needs 
to be able to independently verify if a statement is true or false 
based on observations of the geographic reality.  If you think about it 
in terms of sources you are either on a completely wrong track in terms 
of understanding the fundamental concept of verifiability or you are 
specifically thinking about things outside the domain of verifiable 
statements.

Verifiability of administrative boundaries varies but most national 
(admin_level=2) land boundaries are verifiable.

> The link to your blog was useful, thanks. I will read through it all
> later, but my immediate reaction was that it is not a good idea to
> have parallel fora, especially when discussing something as
> fundamental as this. Either we do it here on the ML, or on your blog
> post, or on the OSM wiki; but please, not in three places at once.

The blog post was written before this discussion started here.  I 
included the link to not unecessarily have to repeat myself in the 
discussion.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] Spolek zapsan

[Marián Kyral]

On 14. 12. 18 19:31, Ladislav Nesnera wrote:

Majka pravdu dí (y)
Když jsem něco potřeboval zrychlit, posílal jsem vzdání se práva na 
odvolání 
 
(byť to proti vlastnímu návrhu zní divně :D)


No může se vloudit chybička a tohle ti dává možnost na to zareagovat 
dříve, než se to dostane do rejstříku.


Marián

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[Florimond Berthoux]

Merci pour vos réponses.
Pour répondre rapidement les données sont sous droit d'auteur car c'est une
œuvre intellectuelle, quand j'ajoute un way dans openstreetmap je choisi
son emplacement, le nombre de point, ses tags, et ceci est un choix de
modélisation de la réalité fait par ma personne après un travail
intellectuel.

Ensuite, j'ai l'impression que l'interdiction faite aux contributeurs de
prendre une source sous droit d'auteur est une facilité pour s'éviter des
procès.
Chose que je regrette, cela veut dire par exemple que je ne pourrais pas
utiliser un panneau d'affichage d'une carte de l'ONF pour nommer les
chemins d'un bois ?
Absurde.


Le sam. 15 déc. 2018 à 14:34, althio  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Je ne suis pas juriste non plus :) et voici ce que j'ai compris :
>
> La carte, le style cartographique, la représentation des données :
> - expression de la créativité de l'auteur : oui
> - le droit d'auteur s'applique : oui
> - license typique dans l'écosystème OSM : CC-BY-SA, mais libre de choix
> par l'auteur
> - texte copyright OSM : "Nos carreaux de rendu cartographiques, ainsi que
> notre documentation, sont disponibles sous la licence Creative Commons
> paternité – partage à l’identique 2.0
>  (CC-BY-SA)." version
> originale : "The cartography in our map tiles, and our documentation, are
> licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0
>  license (CC BY-SA)."
> - Le droit de citation s'applique : peut-être, il faut voir, c'est une
> notion particulière selon les pays, la license utilisée n'est pas
> française. Cela revient à dire qu'on pourrait copier un extrait (image) de
> carte ou un extrait (texte) de documentation sans se soucier de license.
> - et hors d'OSM ? Copier un style de carte (Michelin, IGN, ...), c'est
> tendu... Copier un bout d'image de carte priopriétaire (avec citation mais
> sans permission), à voir si l'utilisation a réellement valeur de simple
> citation... Copier des données représentées dans la carte, on sort du
> cadre...
>
>
> Les données :
> - expression de la créativité de l'auteur : non
> - le droit d'auteur s'applique : non
> - le droit des bases de données s'applique : oui
> - license dans l'écosystème OSM : ODbL (depuis 2012)
> - texte copyright OSM : "OpenStreetMap®
>  est un ensemble de 
> *données
> ouvertes*, disponibles sous licence libre Open Data Commons Open Database
> License (ODbL) auprès de la 
> Fondation
> OpenStreetMap  (OSMF)." version originale : "
> OpenStreetMap®  is 
> *open
> data*, licensed under the Open Data Commons Open Database License
>  (ODbL) by the OpenStreetMap
> Foundation  (OSMF)."
> - Le droit de citation s'applique : Non, et surtout pas pour recopier dans
> une autre base de données.
> (C'est pas du droit, mais vous imaginez 1000 contributeurs qui font
> recopient 1 élément par jour pendant 1 an ?)
>
> Combinaison des deux éléments (droits sur la carte et droits sur les
> données) :
> exemples de mentions complètes :
> - Map data © OpenStreetMap contributors, tiles GIScience Research Group @
> Heidelberg University
> - Tiles courtesy of jawgmaps - Map data © OpenStreetMap contributors,
> under ODbL
> - Map tiles by Stamen Design, under CC BY 3.0. Data by OpenStreetMap,
> under ODbL
> - Map tiles by CartoDB, under CC BY 3.0. map data © OpenStreetMap
> contributors under ODbL
> - Maps © Thunderforest, Data © OpenStreetMap contributors
> - map data © OpenStreetMap - Tiles courtesy of Lyrk
>
> Il y a des zones grises dans l'interprétation des licenses.
> Mais le droit de citation sur des données pour les copier dans une autre
> base de données me semble clairement dans la zone noire. C'est donc clair :
> Pas de données sous copyright pour mettre dans OSM (même pas un petit peu,
> juste là, juste une fois, pour N contributeurs).
> Et pour les pratiques un peu dans la zone grise, la position du projet OSM
> règle le problème (technique du plus blanc que blanc) : si il y a un doute,
> on ne prend pas. On a déjà assez de sources avec les contributions
> personnelles originales et les données ouvertes et les données partagées.
>
> -- althio
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 10:56, Leo Gaspard  wrote:
>
>> (deuxième tentative après l'utilisation de la mauvaise adresse mail
>> source pour le premier envoi)
>>
>> Rpnpif  writes:
>> > Mais le droit de citation existe quand même quand le texte est
>> > suffisamment court. Non ?
>>
>> Plus intéressant que le droit de citation… le droit d'auteur ne
>> s'applique en fait pas aux cartes sous la législation française, comme
>> le montre [1] en indiquant « Pour être protégées, ces créations doivent
>> être originales (expression juridique de la 

[Talk-de] Aufbau eines Social-Media-Teams für OSM in Deutschland

[Michael Reichert]

Hallo,

seit einigen Monaten hat der FOSSGIS e.V. (genauer Dominik Helle und
ich) Administrator-Rechte für die Facebook-Seite "OpenStreetMap
Deutschland". Die Seite wurde und wird nicht wirklich gepflegt. Die
Verlinkung der Wochennotiz geschieht automatisch durch IFTTT ohne Zutun
des Wochennotizteams. Ich würde sie gerne als ersten Baustein für den
Aufbau eines „Social Media Teams“ für OpenStreetMap Deutschland verwenden.

Daher suche ich Freiwillige, die diese und später auch noch andere
Kanäle (v.a. Twitter) gemeinsam pflegen und dort die deutsche
OpenStreetMap-Community vertreten möchten.

Besondere Anforderungen gibt es nicht, von vernünftigen
Deutschkenntnissen und etwas Überblick über OSM mal abgesehen. Das
dürfte für die meisten Leute, die hier mehr oder minder häufig
schreiben, aber kein Problem sein. Eine Mitgliedschaft im FOSSGIS e.V.
ist nicht erforderlich.

Eine Hürde gibt es jedoch: Ihr benötigt ein Facebook-Benutzerkonto mit
eurem Realnamen und müsst den Nutzungsbedingungen von Facebook
zustimmen. Ich habe deshalb 3 1/2 Jahren nach „Löschung“ meines alten
Facebook-Kontos ein neues angelegt und ihm zwei Alibi-Freunde aus dem
FOSSGIS- und OSM-Umfeld spendiert, bevor der FOSSGIS e.V. den alten
Betreiber der Facebook-Seite um die Übergabe an den Verein (vertreten
durch mich) gebeten hat.

Falls ihr Interesse an der Tätigkeit habt und den Aufbau eines formalen
Local Chapters unterstützen möchtet, könnt ihr euch gerne hier melden
und mir per E-Mail an michael.reich...@fossgis.de euren
Facebook-Benutzernamen schicken.

Viele Grüße

Michael Reichert


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Colin Smale]

"without access to the same sources" ... what if there is only one
source of truth? With these non-observable items like admin boundaries
that is often the case. Does "independent verifiability" now mean that
there must be at least two sources that agree before this criterion is
fulfilled? What qualifies as a source, anyway? If two people look at the
same tree, is that one source or two? Such observations are always
ephemeral anyway. 

The link to your blog was useful, thanks. I will read through it all
later, but my immediate reaction was that it is not a good idea to have
parallel fora, especially when discussing something as fundamental as
this. Either we do it here on the ML, or on your blog post, or on the
OSM wiki; but please, not in three places at once.

On 2018-12-15 15:24, Christoph Hormann wrote:

> On Saturday 15 December 2018, Colin Smale wrote: 
> 
>> Please choose your words more carefully. Sounds like [...]
> 
> I meant exactly what i wrote here.
> 
> For more details:
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Steven Clays]

You could combine 'vicinal_type' with 'vicinal_ref', but then again, in one
municipality everthing is on the signs as Baan, in the other it is Buurtweg
and in yet another it is even Chemin (even in Flanders). Good luck with
that...

Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 15:38 schreef Steven Clays :

> To make it even more complex: in Halle, I have seen signs with A12 on
> 'atlas roads' (instead of Buurtweg nr. 12) and F12 ('feitelijke weg nr. 12'
> - factual way).
>
> Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 15:33 schreef Marc Gemis :
>
>> Sometimes references contain language specific information. Some
>> substations have CAB 12 as reference. I assume CAB refers somehow to
>> Cabine, which would not have been there if we would live e.g. in
>> Russia.
>> The same with the 'E' / 'A' / 'N' used to indicate road nummers.
>>
>> We never put the name of the street in name:nl for other roads, why
>> would we do that for vicinal roads ?
>>
>> Another example that I want to map is:
>> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2018/2018-09-22-Londerzeel/i-SndFGmx/A
>>
>> As a simple surveyor that does not want to look at ancient road
>> atlasses I thought of mapping this just as
>>
>> name=Pluimennest
>> alt_name=Merchtemscheweg
>> vicinal_ref=Voetweg 25
>>
>> If there is another simple method to map "Voetweg" and "25" we could
>> use that as well. But I assume that the signs sometimes do not
>> correspond to what the "Atlas" has.
>>
>> Note that Voetweg/Buurtweg is not always written as such. In Rumst
>> they use VW and BW followed by the number. This is much closer to the
>> usage of e.g. A12 (which we also do not write as Autoweg 12, nor as 12
>> with and extra designation or road type tag).
>>
>> m.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 3:20 PM Karel Adams  wrote:
>> >
>> > But - for as little as I am acquainted with this specific matter - I
>> should think language-related terms should never occur in a reference? I
>> would expect and indeed welcome them in a name tag, probably
>> language-specific like name:nl
>> >
>> > KA
>> >
>> > On 15/12/2018 14:13, Steven Clays wrote:
>> >
>> > Indeed, that's why. Actually, it is a good way to deal with the
>> sometimes blurry denominations on the signposts.
>> >
>> > Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 14:59 schreef Marc Gemis :
>> >>
>> >> I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
>> >> as well, not just 19.
>> >> I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
>> >> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM Ben Laenen 
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > One question I have: why are the words "chemin", "sentier",
>> "voetweg" etc. part of the vicinal_ref tag? Better just leave the number in
>> there, the type of road is in the vicinal_type tag.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ben
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 12:33 Steven Clays > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hello,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on
>> the discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also
>> proposed, seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are
>> restored and some pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
>> >> >> ___
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>> >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Steven Clays]

In the end, there is no legal distinction between a vicinal path and a
vicinal road. We might even choose to delete that vicinal_type tag. On the
other hand there is a lesser known vicinal_type =  particular 'Particulier
/ Bijzonder'.
For the vicinal_ref tag, there is indeed no straightforward way to choose
between french and dutch, and there are several denominations in dutch. I'd
happily accept the vicinal_ref tag as such.

Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 15:21 schreef Marc Gemis :

> I don't want to reconstuct the map from 1800, I want to map what I see
> on the sign.
> If I see a sign like
>
> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2018/2018-10-07-Opdorp-Lippelobos/i-sFgCzRj
> ,
> I want to somehow map "Lippelooweg / Buurtweg 57" and "Buurtweg 58",
> regardless of what a map from 1800 says.
>
> m.
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 3:17 PM Ben Laenen  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 14:59 Marc Gemis  >>
> >> I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
> >> as well, not just 19.
> >> I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah but those words aren't very consistent in usage, do you take the
> French words for Flemish roads because the Atlas was made in French for
> that municipality? In the end there are only two types, a path and a road,
> and there's no difference in a path being a sentier, pad, voetpad or
> voetweg on one map from the 1800s.
> >
> > Also, if you want what's on the map, you'd need to have "Sentier n° 117"
> as well for example.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > ___
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> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 15 December 2018, Colin Smale wrote:
> Please choose your words more carefully. Sounds like [...]

I meant exactly what i wrote here.

For more details:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability
http://blog.imagico.de/verifiability-and-the-wikipediarization-of-openstreetmap/

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Marc Gemis]

I don't want to reconstuct the map from 1800, I want to map what I see
on the sign.
If I see a sign like
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2018/2018-10-07-Opdorp-Lippelobos/i-sFgCzRj,
I want to somehow map "Lippelooweg / Buurtweg 57" and "Buurtweg 58",
regardless of what a map from 1800 says.

m.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 3:17 PM Ben Laenen  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 14:59 Marc Gemis >
>> I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
>> as well, not just 19.
>> I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
>
>
>
> Yeah but those words aren't very consistent in usage, do you take the French 
> words for Flemish roads because the Atlas was made in French for that 
> municipality? In the end there are only two types, a path and a road, and 
> there's no difference in a path being a sentier, pad, voetpad or voetweg on 
> one map from the 1800s.
>
> Also, if you want what's on the map, you'd need to have "Sentier n° 117" as 
> well for example.
>
> Ben
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Karel Adams]

But - for as little as I am acquainted with this specific matter - I 
should think language-related terms should never occur in a reference? I 
would expect and indeed welcome them in a name tag, probably 
language-specific like name:nl


KA

On 15/12/2018 14:13, Steven Clays wrote:
Indeed, that's why. Actually, it is a good way to deal with the 
sometimes blurry denominations on the signposts.


Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 14:59 schreef Marc Gemis >:


I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
as well, not just 19.
I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM Ben Laenen mailto:benlae...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> One question I have: why are the words "chemin", "sentier",
"voetweg" etc. part of the vicinal_ref tag? Better just leave the
number in there, the type of road is in the vicinal_type tag.
>
> Ben
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 12:33 Steven Clays mailto:steven.cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based
on the discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is
also proposed, seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref.
Links are restored and some pictures added. Comments and
improvements welcome.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
>> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Ben Laenen]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 14:59 Marc Gemis  I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
> as well, not just 19.
> I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
>


Yeah but those words aren't very consistent in usage, do you take the
French words for Flemish roads because the Atlas was made in French for
that municipality? In the end there are only two types, a path and a road,
and there's no difference in a path being a sentier, pad, voetpad or
voetweg on one map from the 1800s.

Also, if you want what's on the map, you'd need to have "Sentier n° 117" as
well for example.

Ben
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Steven Clays]

Indeed, that's why. Actually, it is a good way to deal with the sometimes
blurry denominations on the signposts.

Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 14:59 schreef Marc Gemis :

> I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
> as well, not just 19.
> I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM Ben Laenen  wrote:
> >
> > One question I have: why are the words "chemin", "sentier", "voetweg"
> etc. part of the vicinal_ref tag? Better just leave the number in there,
> the type of road is in the vicinal_type tag.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 12:33 Steven Clays  >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the
> discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also proposed,
> seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are restored and some
> pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
> >> ___
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> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Colin Smale]

Please choose your words more carefully. Sounds like you are suggesting that 
everything needs to be dual sourced now. This kind of fundamental principle 
needs to be expressed with the same degree of care as a law, so it should be as 
simple as possible (but no simpler) and unambiguous.


On 15 December 2018 14:53:31 CET, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
>On Saturday 15 December 2018, Colin Smale wrote:
>> > The whole point of the "verifiability" and "ground truth"
>> > principles is so as _not_ to have to rely on documents.
>>
>> First time I have heard that as a (documented) rationale behind
>> "ground truth".
>
>Independent verifiability, i.e. that you can verify statements through 
>independent observation without access to the same sources is and has 
>always been the core of verifiability in OSM.
>
>-- 
>Christoph Hormann
>http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Marc Gemis]

I suggested that, as I think it is an part of the ref. We do map "E19"
as well, not just 19.
I want to be able te reconstruct the sign as I see it during a survey.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM Ben Laenen  wrote:
>
> One question I have: why are the words "chemin", "sentier", "voetweg" etc. 
> part of the vicinal_ref tag? Better just leave the number in there, the type 
> of road is in the vicinal_type tag.
>
> Ben
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 12:33 Steven Clays >
>> Hello,
>>
>> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the 
>> discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also proposed, 
>> seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are restored and some 
>> pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome. 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
>> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 15 December 2018, Colin Smale wrote:
> > The whole point of the "verifiability" and "ground truth"
> > principles is so as _not_ to have to rely on documents.
>
> First time I have heard that as a (documented) rationale behind
> "ground truth".

Independent verifiability, i.e. that you can verify statements through 
independent observation without access to the same sources is and has 
always been the core of verifiability in OSM.

-- 
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http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Ben Laenen]

One question I have: why are the words "chemin", "sentier", "voetweg" etc.
part of the vicinal_ref tag? Better just leave the number in there, the
type of road is in the vicinal_type tag.

Ben

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, 12:33 Steven Clays  Hello,
>
> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the
> discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also proposed,
> seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are restored and some
> pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
> ___
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[Talk-de] Feature Proposal - Abstimmung von "Empfehlung zur Verwendung von Multipolygonen"

[Tigerfell]

Hallo,

nach längerer Diskussion steht nun ein Proposal, welches sich mit der 
Verwendung von Multipolygonen ausschließlich in Deutschland beschäftigt, im 
Wiki zur Abstimmung . Dieses folgt im Wesentlichen der Diskussion im Forum 
(https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64439 
).

Das Proposal befindet sich im Wiki unter 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Proposed_features/Empfehlung_zur_Verwendung_von_Multipolygonen
 


Ich möchte darauf hinweisen, dass wir uns auf die Bezeichnung "Empfehlung" 
geeinigt haben. Damit ist gemeint, dass die Erfassung gemäß der "Empfehlung" 
durchgeführt werden sollte, andere Vorschläge aber auch zukünftig nicht 
verhindert werden sollen, vielmehr soll eine einheitliche Vorgehensweise 
vorgeschlagen werden. 

Viele Grüße
Tigerfell

PS: Wesentliche Diskussionspunkte im Forum:
Motivation: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=725141#p725141 

möglicher Konflikt mit "on the groud mapping": 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729026#p729026 

"Verklebte" Multipolygone schädlich?: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729019#p729019 

Von der Empfehlung abweichende Einzelfälle: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=727561#p727561 

Nicht zusammenhängende Teile von Multipolygonen: 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=729828#p729828 

Das sind sicher nicht alle Punkte...
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[althio]

Bonjour,

Je ne suis pas juriste non plus :) et voici ce que j'ai compris :

La carte, le style cartographique, la représentation des données :
- expression de la créativité de l'auteur : oui
- le droit d'auteur s'applique : oui
- license typique dans l'écosystème OSM : CC-BY-SA, mais libre de choix par
l'auteur
- texte copyright OSM : "Nos carreaux de rendu cartographiques, ainsi que
notre documentation, sont disponibles sous la licence Creative Commons
paternité – partage à l’identique 2.0
 (CC-BY-SA)." version
originale : "The cartography in our map tiles, and our documentation, are
licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0
 license (CC BY-SA)."
- Le droit de citation s'applique : peut-être, il faut voir, c'est une
notion particulière selon les pays, la license utilisée n'est pas
française. Cela revient à dire qu'on pourrait copier un extrait (image) de
carte ou un extrait (texte) de documentation sans se soucier de license.
- et hors d'OSM ? Copier un style de carte (Michelin, IGN, ...), c'est
tendu... Copier un bout d'image de carte priopriétaire (avec citation mais
sans permission), à voir si l'utilisation a réellement valeur de simple
citation... Copier des données représentées dans la carte, on sort du
cadre...


Les données :
- expression de la créativité de l'auteur : non
- le droit d'auteur s'applique : non
- le droit des bases de données s'applique : oui
- license dans l'écosystème OSM : ODbL (depuis 2012)
- texte copyright OSM : "OpenStreetMap®
 est un ensemble
de *données
ouvertes*, disponibles sous licence libre Open Data Commons Open Database
License (ODbL) auprès de
la Fondation
OpenStreetMap  (OSMF)." version originale : "
OpenStreetMap®  is *open
data*, licensed under the Open Data Commons Open Database License
 (ODbL) by the OpenStreetMap
Foundation  (OSMF)."
- Le droit de citation s'applique : Non, et surtout pas pour recopier dans
une autre base de données.
(C'est pas du droit, mais vous imaginez 1000 contributeurs qui font
recopient 1 élément par jour pendant 1 an ?)

Combinaison des deux éléments (droits sur la carte et droits sur les
données) :
exemples de mentions complètes :
- Map data © OpenStreetMap contributors, tiles GIScience Research Group @
Heidelberg University
- Tiles courtesy of jawgmaps - Map data © OpenStreetMap contributors, under
ODbL
- Map tiles by Stamen Design, under CC BY 3.0. Data by OpenStreetMap, under
ODbL
- Map tiles by CartoDB, under CC BY 3.0. map data © OpenStreetMap
contributors under ODbL
- Maps © Thunderforest, Data © OpenStreetMap contributors
- map data © OpenStreetMap - Tiles courtesy of Lyrk

Il y a des zones grises dans l'interprétation des licenses.
Mais le droit de citation sur des données pour les copier dans une autre
base de données me semble clairement dans la zone noire. C'est donc clair :
Pas de données sous copyright pour mettre dans OSM (même pas un petit peu,
juste là, juste une fois, pour N contributeurs).
Et pour les pratiques un peu dans la zone grise, la position du projet OSM
règle le problème (technique du plus blanc que blanc) : si il y a un doute,
on ne prend pas. On a déjà assez de sources avec les contributions
personnelles originales et les données ouvertes et les données partagées.

-- althio


On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 10:56, Leo Gaspard  wrote:

> (deuxième tentative après l'utilisation de la mauvaise adresse mail
> source pour le premier envoi)
>
> Rpnpif  writes:
> > Mais le droit de citation existe quand même quand le texte est
> > suffisamment court. Non ?
>
> Plus intéressant que le droit de citation… le droit d'auteur ne
> s'applique en fait pas aux cartes sous la législation française, comme
> le montre [1] en indiquant « Pour être protégées, ces créations doivent
> être originales (expression juridique de la créativité de l'auteur)
> et [...] ».
>
> [1]
> https://www.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/vosdroits/F23431
>
> À moins qu'il n'y ait expression de la créativité de l'auteur dans
> l'emplacement des points sur une carte du monde réel, le droit d'auteur
> ne s'applique pas aux données qu'on pourrait vouloir reproduire dans
> OSM.
>
> Après, je ne suis pas juriste. Mais il me semble que la position d'OSM
> est une position qui n'est pas supportée par une base légale, au moins
> en France. Ce qui ne l'empêche pas d'être la position du projet.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[François Lacombe]

Le sam. 15 déc. 2018 à 14:04, Colin Smale  a écrit :

> First time I have heard that as a (documented) rationale behind "ground
> truth".
>
> Surely the stronger requirement is public verifiability, from a freely
> accessible, objectively reliable source. What is physically present in situ
> is a subset of that - but so are public records. This would make the
> mapping objective, in the sense that a random second mapper would be able
> to verify the correctness of the data and/or come to the same conclusion.
>

+1
In France underground power lines maps are publicly available (and it
should be a standard practice, INSPIRE from EU encourage it)
https://opendata.reseaux-energies.fr/explore/dataset/lignes-souterraines-rte/map/?disjunctive.etat=13,47.2096,-1.51929=f91575

Most of them aren't visible from the surface, sometimes you have red
markers and that's all.
Nevertheless it's useful to add them (with careful integration as to not
interfer with roads or something not related to) in OSM and there are no
issue with verifiability since the operator gives many information
https://openinframap.org/#13.22/48.85796/2.41832

All the best

François
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Re: [Talk-it] query con oggetti vicini

[Andrea Albani]

Il giorno ven 14 dic 2018 alle ore 22:51 demon.box 
ha scritto:

> in realtà vorrei trovara tutti i nodi di un certo tipo che sono connessi ad
> un highway=path, perciò pensavo di cercare tutti i nodi di un certo tag che
> hanno nelle immediate vicinanze un highway=path: come posso fare?
> grazie
> --enrico
>
>
Se ho capito bene...
con questa selezioni, per esempio, tutti i nodi di tipo amenity=townhall
nel bbox selezionato e li memorizzi nel set mytags.
Nello statement successivo con l'operatore around vengono cercate le
highway=path che stanno (con almeno un nodo) all'interno di un raggio di 50
metri dai tuoi tag.

[out:xml][timeout:25];
node[amenity=townhall]({{bbox}})->.mytags;
way(around.mytags:50)[highway=path]->.mypaths;
(.mytags;.mypaths;);
out geom;
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Colin Smale]

On 2018-12-15 12:54, Andy Townsend wrote:

> The whole point of the "verifiability" and "ground truth" principles is so as 
> _not_ to have to rely on documents.

First time I have heard that as a (documented) rationale behind "ground
truth". 

Surely the stronger requirement is public verifiability, from a freely
accessible, objectively reliable source. What is physically present in
situ is a subset of that - but so are public records. This would make
the mapping objective, in the sense that a random second mapper would be
able to verify the correctness of the data and/or come to the same
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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Tomas Straupis]

2018-12-15, št, 13:57 Andy Townsend rašė:
> If I want to find the border
> between Ireland and Northern Ireland, for example, I might not (yet)
> find anything stopping me driving through but I will see something along
> the lines of "speed limits now in mph" or the reverse.

  And then the borderline in OSM will be drawn by simply connecting
those scarce points on the roads with straight lines?

> The fact that we can't get some boundaries from an on the ground survey
> doesn't mean that we have to rely on "documents" for all of them, and
> for a good reason - "documents" often contradict each other, even from
> the same organisation.

  If you find an error in "documents" - why don't you inform the owner
of the document so that they could fix the error (and maybe fix data
in OSM until official document is fixed)? My opinion is that
OpenStreetMap should COLLABORATE, not ISOLATE itself. Collaboration
does NOT mean OSM will become just a fusion of data from different
official documents.

  The fact that there are some errors in official documents means that
we want to resort to guesswork and extremely simplified geometry for
ALL non-physical objects?

  How many border vertexes are actually mapped by observing physical
reflections in OpenStreetMap? 0,1% or less?

  And if I was to use an "ad absurdum" argument type: a lot is mapped
by using so called "satellite imagery", which is not a photography,
but a number of them processed and merged to produce an
"Orthophotographic MAP" which is a DOCUMENT. Where will it lead us to?
To methods of ~2006 when in order to map a building we had to walk
around the building with GPSR (with some distance in order to minimise
building obstruction to GPS signal), then measure the building and use
that information to map ONE building? And note, building is a physical
object which can be observed directly, but is quite difficult to
measure with tools most mappers have...
  (Note: the point of ad absurdum argument in discussion is to point
out flaws in initial statement, not to ridicule, so please do not take
is as an offence)

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Andy Townsend]

On 13/12/2018 10:40, Tomas Straupis wrote:


   What is "ground" in this term for non physical objects:
   1. Physical place which could have some traces of an actual object.
   2. Ground where non-physical objects actually live - documents.



The whole point of the "verifiability" and "ground truth" principles is 
so as _not_ to have to rely on documents.  If I want to find the border 
between Ireland and Northern Ireland, for example, I might not (yet) 
find anything stopping me driving through but I will see something along 
the lines of "speed limits now in mph" or the reverse.  Reliance on 
non-physical objects is only necessary where you really can't see 
something on the ground (such as the border between lower and upper 
Rossnowlagh at https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5702/-8.2369 ).  
The fact that we can't get some boundaries from an on the ground survey 
doesn't mean that we have to rely on "documents" for all of them, and 
for a good reason - "documents" often contradict each other, even from 
the same organisation.


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Steven Clays]

Sure, thank you.

Op za 15 dec. 2018 om 12:32 schreef Steven Clays :

> Hello,
>
> I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the
> discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also proposed,
> seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are restored and some
> pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Karel Adams]

This matter is fully outside my are of competence, but the typo struck 
my eye. Please consider


s/oficial/official/g



On 15/12/2018 11:32, Steven Clays wrote:

Hello,

I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the 
discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also 
proposed, seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are 
restored and some pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome. 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory


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[OSM-talk-be] Update Slow Roads conventions Belgium

[Steven Clays]

 Hello,

I made a slight overhaul of the slow roads Belgium page, based on the
discussion of Friday December 14th. A new tagging scheme is also proposed,
seperating vicinal_ref and oficial_vicinal_ref. Links are restored and some
pictures added. Comments and improvements welcome.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads=1#Trage_wegen_Inventory
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Re: [Talk-cz] logo OSM-CZ

[Tom Ka]

Pokud nenajde, muzeme nekoho i oslovit, ale i tak bude potreba dodat
nejake zadani co je vlastne cilem. Tak o tom muzete zkusit pres svatky
popremyslet a ja to zas po novem roce muzu vykopnout...

Bye

pá 14. 12. 2018 v 23:16 odesílatel Petr Schönmann  napsal:
>
> Ahoj. Určitě se nenajde nějaký grafik v řadách osmcz? Pripadne sepsat 
> grafický manuál pro tvorbu jakehokoliv grafickeh osmcz obsahu.
> Rad bych uvital nejakou slozku kde bude neco jako press kit, pripadne pěkné 
> sablony pro prezentace osmcz komunity.
>
> Dne pá 14. 12. 2018 15:40 uživatel majka  napsal:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 at 15:31, Tom Ka  wrote:
>>>
>>> ahoj, asi by bylo fajn, kdyby jsi nejak okomentoval, proc jiny navrh nez co 
>>> je na osmap.cz a jinde. tj. proc jiny navrh, v cem ma byt jiny apod.
>>>
>>> Diskuze nad tim jake ma byt logo komunity, jake spolku atd. je pak falsi 
>>> vec - maji byt stejne, jine, podobne se spolecnym zakladem...
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Za mě, i když momentálně těžce předčasné: na to, aby to univerzálně 
>> fungovalo jako logo, to je moc barevné a příliš to spoléhá na velikost. 
>> Jakmile se začnou redukovat barvy, zmenšovat, případně hledat černobílou 
>> variantu, dostáváme se do problémů.
>> Logo by ideálně mělo být bez problémů použitelné třeba i na razítko, z 
>> tohohle toho moc nezůstane.
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
>
> --
> S pozdravem
> Petr Schönmann
> https://www.facebook.com/klikklakcz
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> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Openstreetbrowser, les cimetières et la religion

[jabali]

En France, comme ailleurs et indépendamment de toute confession, les
cimetières sont des lieux où le caractère religieux - spirituel est profond.
(également dans la laicité ou l'athéisme) 
Je les verrais mal considérés comme simple amenity. ( surtout que osm est
une carte mondiale)

Ce qui serait bien, par contre, c'est de retirer là où ils sont superflus,
les attributs confessionnaux sur les cimetières Français.
Moi le premier, j'ai fait cette erreur à mes débuts.




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Re: [Talk-it] Tablet con Osmand al posto del navigatore per il 118

[riccardo pastocchi]

C’è qualcuno che mi può mettere in contatto con qualche corpo dei vigili del 
fuoco che attualmente utilizza osm. In modo da poterci parlare direttamente e 
magari creare un gruppo apposito di scambio e condivisione. Grazie

> Il giorno 15 dic 2018, alle ore 10:10, Aury88  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> dieterdreist wrote
>> Ho pensato da un po’ se dirvelo, e forse lo sapete, ma l’utilizzo di OSM
>> per servizi di emergenza è vietato.
>> Credo questo è stato introdotto a 9/2018, e mentre non ne ha parlato mai
>> nessuno (oppure mi è sfuggito), si trova qui nei termini:
>> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#III._Unlawful_and_other_unauthorized_uses
>> 
>> Cito:
>> you may not...
>> Operate dangerous businesses such as emergency services or air traffic
>> control, where the use or failure of the Services could lead to death,
>> personal injury or significant property damage;
>> 
>> 
>> Ovviamente questo è solo un palese tentativo di cercare di respingere la
>> responsabilità nel caso di dati errati, ma lo volevo dire, visto che qui
>> c’è 118 nello titolo ;-)
>> 
>> 
>> Ciao, Martin 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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> 
>> Talk-it@
> 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> 
> ciao Martin,
> 
> non mi sembra svenga vietato, ma semplicemente ne viene sconsigliato
> l'utilizzo per servizi di emergenza.
> d'altronde se fsse vero quello che dici non dovrebbero esistere progetti
> come HOT dove  " the use or failure of the Services could lead to death,
> personal injury or significant property damage"
> 
> quasi mai il software o servizio, neanche quelli proprietari e/o a
> pagamento, si assumono la responsabilità sui danni provocati dall'utilizzo o
> il semplice utilizzo del proprio software/servizio...il software/servizio
> nella EULA è quasi sempre fornito senza garanzia sul suo corretto
> funzionamento.
> 
> in osm a tutto questo si aggiunge il fatto che, essendo dati modificabili da
> tutti, potrebbero essere introdotti errori critici in maniera volontaria o
> meno. 
> 
> Proprio per prevenire questo, gli enti di gestione delle emergenze che usano
> OSM (a proprio rischio e pericolo) certificano, internamente, l'affidabilità
> di una verione del planet e utilizzano quello per tot tempo e
> all'aggiornamento successivo fanno lo stesso lavoro di certificazione. 
> naturalmente quetso non può essere frutto del lavoro e della scelta di un
> singolo operatore, ma deve esserci dietro una analisi ed un processo
> decisionale e operativo a livello "aziendale".
> 
> aggiungo che quanto detto per OSM va detto anche per googlemap con la
> differenza che su quest'ultimo di solito nn si ha modo ne di certificare il
> dato (non hai il dato, ma solo il servizio) ne di modificarlo/correggerlo
> direttamente ne di bloccarlo ad una versione verificata. e da quello che ho
> visto googlemap è solo mediamente più omogeneo in termini di completezza, ma
> lato affidabilità/correttezza del dato/servizio è quasi sempre solo alla
> pari se non peggio di OSM
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Ciao,
> Aury
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[Leo Gaspard]

(deuxième tentative après l'utilisation de la mauvaise adresse mail
source pour le premier envoi)

Rpnpif  writes:
> Mais le droit de citation existe quand même quand le texte est
> suffisamment court. Non ?

Plus intéressant que le droit de citation… le droit d'auteur ne
s'applique en fait pas aux cartes sous la législation française, comme
le montre [1] en indiquant « Pour être protégées, ces créations doivent
être originales (expression juridique de la créativité de l'auteur)
et [...] ».

[1] https://www.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/vosdroits/F23431

À moins qu'il n'y ait expression de la créativité de l'auteur dans
l'emplacement des points sur une carte du monde réel, le droit d'auteur
ne s'applique pas aux données qu'on pourrait vouloir reproduire dans
OSM.

Après, je ne suis pas juriste. Mais il me semble que la position d'OSM
est une position qui n'est pas supportée par une base légale, au moins
en France. Ce qui ne l'empêche pas d'être la position du projet.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[Christian Quest]

Le droit de citation existe, mais le choix fait pas OSM n'est pas de
s'appuyer dessus.

On ne parle pas ici du droit en général (et en plus à un niveau mondial !),
mais bien de règles internes et choisies par OSM.

Le sam. 15 déc. 2018 à 09:41, Rpnpif  a écrit :

> Le 14 décembre 2018, Christian Quest a écrit :
>
> > Parce qu'OSM n'est pas Wikipédia et que les règles concernant ce qu'on
> peut
> > mettre ou pas dans OSM sont différentes de celles de wikipédia.
> >
> > Wikipédia exige par exemple que les informations soient sourcées, même si
> > la source est sous Copyright.
> >
> > OSM n'exige pas que l'information soit sourcée, tu peux être la source de
> > l'info si tu l'a simplement constatée sur le terrain (survey) ou si elle
> > est notoirement connue (knowledge)... mais tu ne peux pas t'appuyer sur
> une
> > source sous Copyright sans autorisation.
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Mais le droit de citation existe quand même quand le texte est
> suffisamment court. Non ?
>
> --
> Alain Rpnpif
>
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>


-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Openstreetbrowser, les cimetières et la religion

[Jacques Lavignotte]

En France aussi il y a des cimetières exclusivement protestants,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/43.49498/-0.80926



 et un « carré musulman » dans l'enceinte de ce cimetières.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/43.49498/-0.80926



Le 15/12/2018 à 10:01, Rpnpif a écrit :

Bonjour,

https://www.openstreetbrowser.org classe les cimetières dans la rubrique 
religion alors qu'en France ils en sont indépendants.



--
GnuPg : C8F5B1E3 Because privacy matters.


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Re: [Talk-it] Tablet con Osmand al posto del navigatore per il 118

[Aury88]

dieterdreist wrote
> Ho pensato da un po’ se dirvelo, e forse lo sapete, ma l’utilizzo di OSM
> per servizi di emergenza è vietato.
> Credo questo è stato introdotto a 9/2018, e mentre non ne ha parlato mai
> nessuno (oppure mi è sfuggito), si trova qui nei termini:
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#III._Unlawful_and_other_unauthorized_uses
> 
> Cito:
> you may not...
> Operate dangerous businesses such as emergency services or air traffic
> control, where the use or failure of the Services could lead to death,
> personal injury or significant property damage;
> 
> 
> Ovviamente questo è solo un palese tentativo di cercare di respingere la
> responsabilità nel caso di dati errati, ma lo volevo dire, visto che qui
> c’è 118 nello titolo ;-)
> 
> 
> Ciao, Martin 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-it mailing list

> Talk-it@

> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

ciao Martin,

non mi sembra svenga vietato, ma semplicemente ne viene sconsigliato
l'utilizzo per servizi di emergenza.
d'altronde se fsse vero quello che dici non dovrebbero esistere progetti
come HOT dove  " the use or failure of the Services could lead to death,
personal injury or significant property damage"

quasi mai il software o servizio, neanche quelli proprietari e/o a
pagamento, si assumono la responsabilità sui danni provocati dall'utilizzo o
il semplice utilizzo del proprio software/servizio...il software/servizio
nella EULA è quasi sempre fornito senza garanzia sul suo corretto
funzionamento.

in osm a tutto questo si aggiunge il fatto che, essendo dati modificabili da
tutti, potrebbero essere introdotti errori critici in maniera volontaria o
meno. 

Proprio per prevenire questo, gli enti di gestione delle emergenze che usano
OSM (a proprio rischio e pericolo) certificano, internamente, l'affidabilità
di una verione del planet e utilizzano quello per tot tempo e
all'aggiornamento successivo fanno lo stesso lavoro di certificazione. 
naturalmente quetso non può essere frutto del lavoro e della scelta di un
singolo operatore, ma deve esserci dietro una analisi ed un processo
decisionale e operativo a livello "aziendale".

aggiungo che quanto detto per OSM va detto anche per googlemap con la
differenza che su quest'ultimo di solito nn si ha modo ne di certificare il
dato (non hai il dato, ma solo il servizio) ne di modificarlo/correggerlo
direttamente ne di bloccarlo ad una versione verificata. e da quello che ho
visto googlemap è solo mediamente più omogeneo in termini di completezza, ma
lato affidabilità/correttezza del dato/servizio è quasi sempre solo alla
pari se non peggio di OSM



-
Ciao,
Aury
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[OSM-talk-fr] Openstreetbrowser, les cimetières et la religion

[Rpnpif]

Bonjour,

https://www.openstreetbrowser.org classe les cimetières dans la rubrique 
religion alors qu'en France ils en sont indépendants.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Source = livre sous copyright

[Rpnpif]

Le 14 décembre 2018, Christian Quest a écrit :

> Parce qu'OSM n'est pas Wikipédia et que les règles concernant ce qu'on peut
> mettre ou pas dans OSM sont différentes de celles de wikipédia.
> 
> Wikipédia exige par exemple que les informations soient sourcées, même si
> la source est sous Copyright.
> 
> OSM n'exige pas que l'information soit sourcée, tu peux être la source de
> l'info si tu l'a simplement constatée sur le terrain (survey) ou si elle
> est notoirement connue (knowledge)... mais tu ne peux pas t'appuyer sur une
> source sous Copyright sans autorisation.

Bonjour,

Mais le droit de citation existe quand même quand le texte est
suffisamment court. Non ?

-- 
Alain Rpnpif

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