[OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sami Dalouche]

Hi,

I just bought a garmin GPS device and thought it would be fun to load it
with OSM maps. (I am especially interested in maps that provide me with
some value while hiking in New Hampshire, Vermont and NY)

However, after searching a little bit, I came to the conclusion that
populating a GPS device with the right OSM map is definitely more suited
for a hacker than an end-user.

What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people creating
incredibly useful work, but good luck finding what is actually available
and what you are looking for. Every google search leads me to forum or
wiki pages that describe (complex) procedures to generate my own maps.. 

So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary project to OSM
that would be aimed at Garmin (maybe others later?) GPS end-users. You
know, some kind of website that gives you a direct download link to a
file that is of the right type (Cycling, Hiking/Mountainbiking, Routing,
Topographic) for the right place (Country, province/state). 

In other words, my use case is : Search "free garmin hiking maps new
hampshire" on google, and the first result should bring you a
simple-to-use download page that provides you with a file to copy on
your SD card.

So, my questions are :
1/ Is there already an OSM subproject or OSM-linked project that tries
to achieve the same goal, and that I might have missed ?
2/ Is there anyone who thinks it is worth putting some effort into
this ?
3/ Is there anyone interested in helping me achieving this simple goal ?
Any kind of help is welcome, including pointing me to the right
information and spending an hour or so on skype with me to kickstart me
into the OSM jungle.

thanks,
Sami




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[OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi all,
Is there an #osm-garmin IRC chat for those who specialize in making
custom garmin maps?

I think there is a need to combine the tallent that is collectively
known about all the tools available to make it.
With an aim to make a better central repository for the maps.
And a slippy map system where Contours & typ styles can be made.

Thanks,
Sam


-- 
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Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

Yes, such a project would be useful. I suggest you get in contact with
some of the people already running something similar, e.g.:

http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php

That project has selectable maps, a mapsource installer and more.
Presumably it could use some programming help to perhaps make custom
maps.

There's also style support in mkgmap, but I don't know of any nice UI
for setting those styles. Something neat for that would be nice, and
could be used by such a project.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,
In short, thats what im working on (as well as many others)

OSM is still in its infancy, we have all of the pieces of the puzzle
available, but not yet to the point where you can do to the main
openstreetmap.org page, zoom into an area & click on the 'download tab'  (it
doesn't exist yet)  and you will get options for downloading nice pre-done
pdf maps / MapSource Installers .

What is the exact area you are interested in? (zoom in & permalink)

I can make a routable -osm installer for that area (just like the
http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php
site.)

I can also produce a set of transparent contour  IMG files, were you install
those onto the device.
http://www.img2gps.co.cc/  is a simple windows program to load the IMG files
to the device.

There are pre-made Garmin IMG files which are nice 1x1 degree tiles
http://touren.mospace.de/kachel.html  (zoom into an area & select the OSM
icon on the bounding box & submit.

Cheers,
Sam

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just bought a garmin GPS device and thought it would be fun to load it
> with OSM maps. (I am especially interested in maps that provide me with
> some value while hiking in New Hampshire, Vermont and NY)
>
> However, after searching a little bit, I came to the conclusion that
> populating a GPS device with the right OSM map is definitely more suited
> for a hacker than an end-user.
>
> What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people creating
> incredibly useful work, but good luck finding what is actually available
> and what you are looking for. Every google search leads me to forum or
> wiki pages that describe (complex) procedures to generate my own maps..
>
> So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary project to OSM
> that would be aimed at Garmin (maybe others later?) GPS end-users. You
> know, some kind of website that gives you a direct download link to a
> file that is of the right type (Cycling, Hiking/Mountainbiking, Routing,
> Topographic) for the right place (Country, province/state).
>
> In other words, my use case is : Search "free garmin hiking maps new
> hampshire" on google, and the first result should bring you a
> simple-to-use download page that provides you with a file to copy on
> your SD card.
>
> So, my questions are :
> 1/ Is there already an OSM subproject or OSM-linked project that tries
> to achieve the same goal, and that I might have missed ?
> 2/ Is there anyone who thinks it is worth putting some effort into
> this ?
> 3/ Is there anyone interested in helping me achieving this simple goal ?
> Any kind of help is welcome, including pointing me to the right
> information and spending an hour or so on skype with me to kickstart me
> into the OSM jungle.
>
> thanks,
> Sami
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sami Dalouche]

Hi,

thanks for the prompt reply !

The http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php page contains only
auto-routable maps, right ?

My current need is to get :
- routable maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY
- hiking maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY

But more generally, I think I would like to (and think it would benefit
the OSM community if it were possible) be able to just go one one
website, that presents me with all the maps I can download for a given
(predefined) area, and quickly load it to my GPS device.

So for example, if I decide to go cycling tomorrow, I'd like to quickly
go to some website that tells me that for the region of Quebec, I can
download :
- cycling maps
- hiking maps (are topographic maps and hiking maps the same ?)
- routing maps

I see my options, choose one or to depending on my needs, load it onto
the GPS, and I'm done. Should not be more complicated than buying the
official garmin maps..

So, if you already have all the rendering machinery in place, I would be
happy to create the scripts to regularly go fetch the maps you render
and publish them onto some kind of user-centric website.
That would be awesome !

sami

On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 17:09 -0700, Sam Vekemans wrote:
> Hi,
> In short, thats what im working on (as well as many others)
> 
> OSM is still in its infancy, we have all of the pieces of the puzzle
> available, but not yet to the point where you can do to the main
> openstreetmap.org page, zoom into an area & click on the 'download
> tab'  (it doesn't exist yet)  and you will get options for downloading
> nice pre-done pdf maps / MapSource Installers .
> 
> What is the exact area you are interested in? (zoom in & permalink)
> 
> I can make a routable -osm installer for that area (just like the
> http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php
> site.)
> 
> I can also produce a set of transparent contour  IMG files, were you
> install those onto the device.
> http://www.img2gps.co.cc/  is a simple windows program to load the IMG
> files to the device.
> 
> There are pre-made Garmin IMG files which are nice 1x1 degree tiles   
> http://touren.mospace.de/kachel.html  (zoom into an area & select the
> OSM icon on the bounding box & submit.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sam
> 
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just bought a garmin GPS device and thought it would be fun
> to load it
> with OSM maps. (I am especially interested in maps that
> provide me with
> some value while hiking in New Hampshire, Vermont and NY)
> 
> However, after searching a little bit, I came to the
> conclusion that
> populating a GPS device with the right OSM map is definitely
> more suited
> for a hacker than an end-user.
> 
> What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people
> creating
> incredibly useful work, but good luck finding what is actually
> available
> and what you are looking for. Every google search leads me to
> forum or
> wiki pages that describe (complex) procedures to generate my
> own maps..
> 
> So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary
> project to OSM
> that would be aimed at Garmin (maybe others later?) GPS
> end-users. You
> know, some kind of website that gives you a direct download
> link to a
> file that is of the right type (Cycling,
> Hiking/Mountainbiking, Routing,
> Topographic) for the right place (Country, province/state).
> 
> In other words, my use case is : Search "free garmin hiking
> maps new
> hampshire" on google, and the first result should bring you a
> simple-to-use download page that provides you with a file to
> copy on
> your SD card.
> 
> So, my questions are :
> 1/ Is there already an OSM subproject or OSM-linked project
> that tries
> to achieve the same goal, and that I might have missed ?
> 2/ Is there anyone who thinks it is worth putting some effort
> into
> this ?
> 3/ Is there anyone interested in helping me achieving this
> simple goal ?
> Any kind of help is welcome, including pointing me to the
> right
> information and spending an hour or so on skype with me to
> kickstart me
> into the OSM jungle.
> 
> thanks,
> Sami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 
> 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sam Vekemans]

Hi,

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:



So, if you already have all the rendering machinery in place, I would be
> happy to create the scripts to regularly go fetch the maps you render
> and publish them onto some kind of user-centric website.
> That would be awesome !
>
> sami
>

Yup it would :)  ... yes they are routable, and your talking about 2
different countries and 3 different states, and cycling / hiking / routing /
contour (topographical) which cover a big area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.41&lon=-74.69&zoom=7&layers=B000FTFT
(zoom in to where you like and click the Permalink button at the bottom
right corner)

Contour + Hiking map/cycling   - non-routable on MapSource is possable
hiking + routable (no contours on MapSource) is possable.

routable + contours on MapSource is not possable   (because of licence &
proprietary software)

However, transparent contour IMG files (that i'm making)  can be used as a
background map (And a contour -only MapSource Installer and/or as available
IMG tiles., for any map that you want. (is also in progress)

Yup, Slowly but surely, this is the goal todo.  In order to get to that
point, there is a WHOLE LOT of technical process that needs to be done.

To talk@ osm:   In other words, I just need to get a .nsis script file
created using ground truth, (just like makemap has).  I can do that myself
with an .iss file, but it will stall & is not automatic,  other than that
were set on the back-end side.   For the front-end.  I have it set to edting
a txt file.  and following dos command prompts.  But thats as technical as i
know how.  (& Because it is using outside programs, the details i'll post on
a blog or something)

Cheers,
Sam
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Steve Bennett]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:
> What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people creating

...

> So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary project to OSM

See the problem here? IMHO if you want to put some effort into this,
the best thing you could do would be to try and
unite/combine/link/organise all those "hundreds of small projects" -
rather than just start another one.

My experience has been that for part of the world, there is a
different project somewhere producing the maps you need. For example,
in australia, it's really easy:
http://www.osmaustralia.org/downloads.php

In the case of Garmin, complication seems to also arise from the fact
that earlier Garmins required special software (like Mapsource) to
load the maps onto the device. Newer ones (like my Oregon 550) are
trivial: simply download a .img file, and copy it into the right
directory.

So, I think there need to be more services of this kind: websites that
regularly (eg, every week or more often) generate .img files of a
given area, in a number of styles (eg, hiking, cycling, driving...)
There is already a central registry of these kinds of sites:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download

But it could be improved.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[john whelan]

It might be worth looking at Maperitive, its new, in beta but does some very
nice things like export bit map and a SVG export command is planned.

The really nice thing is though that since it can work with either a local
file (save an OSM file from JOSM) or on the web linked to the OSM database
you get a lot more control over what is rendered and how it is rendered
since the processing is done locally.  So here in Canada I have it
displaying the street names in French in a bilingual region.

If it can be linked to the Garmins then you get control over which area you
want, and just the area you want, at what level of detail and which brand of
coffee shops you're most interested in.

Cheerio John

On 15 May 2010 22:13, Steve Bennett  wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:
> > What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people creating
>
> ...
>
> > So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary project to OSM
>
> See the problem here? IMHO if you want to put some effort into this,
> the best thing you could do would be to try and
> unite/combine/link/organise all those "hundreds of small projects" -
> rather than just start another one.
>
> My experience has been that for part of the world, there is a
> different project somewhere producing the maps you need. For example,
> in australia, it's really easy:
> http://www.osmaustralia.org/downloads.php
>
> In the case of Garmin, complication seems to also arise from the fact
> that earlier Garmins required special software (like Mapsource) to
> load the maps onto the device. Newer ones (like my Oregon 550) are
> trivial: simply download a .img file, and copy it into the right
> directory.
>
> So, I think there need to be more services of this kind: websites that
> regularly (eg, every week or more often) generate .img files of a
> given area, in a number of styles (eg, hiking, cycling, driving...)
> There is already a central registry of these kinds of sites:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download
>
> But it could be improved.
>
> Steve
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sami Dalouche]

This kind of project is definitely exciting !

However, I still think it is meant to be used by advanced users, and I
would first like to focus on achieving the simple use case of loading
the GPS with some data, without detailed control of the exact area nor
the rendering. (I think it is reasonable to assume that someone is going
to download the complete data for a given state even if he's only
interested in part of it... )

So, I see this tool as another part of the toolkit that supports
people's  generation of new maps, that can then be aggregated on the
user-centric website I am talking about.

Am I wrong to assume this ?

Sami

On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 08:12 -0400, john whelan wrote:
> It might be worth looking at Maperitive, its new, in beta but does
> some very nice things like export bit map and a SVG export command is
> planned.
> 
> The really nice thing is though that since it can work with either a
> local file (save an OSM file from JOSM) or on the web linked to the
> OSM database you get a lot more control over what is rendered and how
> it is rendered since the processing is done locally.  So here in
> Canada I have it displaying the street names in French in a bilingual
> region.
> 
> If it can be linked to the Garmins then you get control over which
> area you want, and just the area you want, at what level of detail and
> which brand of coffee shops you're most interested in.
> 
> Cheerio John
> 
> On 15 May 2010 22:13, Steve Bennett  wrote:
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Sami Dalouche
>  wrote:
> > What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual
> people creating
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> > So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary
> project to OSM
> 
> 
> See the problem here? IMHO if you want to put some effort into
> this,
> the best thing you could do would be to try and
> unite/combine/link/organise all those "hundreds of small
> projects" -
> rather than just start another one.
> 
> My experience has been that for part of the world, there is a
> different project somewhere producing the maps you need. For
> example,
> in australia, it's really easy:
> http://www.osmaustralia.org/downloads.php
> 
> In the case of Garmin, complication seems to also arise from
> the fact
> that earlier Garmins required special software (like
> Mapsource) to
> load the maps onto the device. Newer ones (like my Oregon 550)
> are
> trivial: simply download a .img file, and copy it into the
> right
> directory.
> 
> So, I think there need to be more services of this kind:
> websites that
> regularly (eg, every week or more often) generate .img files
> of a
> given area, in a number of styles (eg, hiking, cycling,
> driving...)
> There is already a central registry of these kinds of sites:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download
> 
> But it could be improved.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
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> 
> 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sami Dalouche]

Hi,

OSMAustralia is awesome, and it's exactly the kind of simple
user-centric website that I think is useful for end-users.

However, I am not sure of what are you suggesting me. How do you see
"uniting/combining/linking/organizing" all those hundreds of small
projects without creating a new fresh repository ?

In any case, we're on the same track here. I do not want to duplicate
any effort, and do not feel like developing the NIH (Not Invented Here)
syndrom. 

Sami

On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 12:13 +1000, Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:
> > What I see is hundreds of small projects or individual people creating
> 
> ...
> 
> > So, I am currently thinking of starting a complementary project to OSM
> 
> See the problem here? IMHO if you want to put some effort into this,
> the best thing you could do would be to try and
> unite/combine/link/organise all those "hundreds of small projects" -
> rather than just start another one.
> 
> My experience has been that for part of the world, there is a
> different project somewhere producing the maps you need. For example,
> in australia, it's really easy:
> http://www.osmaustralia.org/downloads.php
> 
> In the case of Garmin, complication seems to also arise from the fact
> that earlier Garmins required special software (like Mapsource) to
> load the maps onto the device. Newer ones (like my Oregon 550) are
> trivial: simply download a .img file, and copy it into the right
> directory.
> 
> So, I think there need to be more services of this kind: websites that
> regularly (eg, every week or more often) generate .img files of a
> given area, in a number of styles (eg, hiking, cycling, driving...)
> There is already a central registry of these kinds of sites:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download
> 
> But it could be improved.
> 
> Steve



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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sami Dalouche]

On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 18:53 -0700, Sam Vekemans wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Sami Dalouche  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> So, if you already have all the rendering machinery in place,
> I would be
> happy to create the scripts to regularly go fetch the maps you
> render
> and publish them onto some kind of user-centric website.
> That would be awesome !
> 
> sami
> 
> Yup it would :)  ... yes they are routable, and your talking about 2
> different countries and 3 different states, and cycling / hiking /
> routing / contour (topographical) which cover a big area.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.41&lon=-74.69&zoom=7&layers=B000FTFT
> (zoom in to where you like and click the Permalink button at the
> bottom right corner)
> 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.1481&lon=-71.6721&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF 
is an example of an area that is of interest to me. However, as I prefer 
simplicity of use over complete control, I prefer loading a 4GB SD card with 
the whole area I am possibly interested in (let's say, new england + NY + 
quebec), and then forget about it. 

Are you saying that it is an unreasonable use case ?

> Contour + Hiking map/cycling   - non-routable on MapSource is possable
> hiking + routable (no contours on MapSource) is possable.
> routable + contours on MapSource is not possable   (because of licence
> & proprietary software)

When you say "possible/impossible on MapSource", do you mean
"technically possible/impossible using Garmin's .img format" ?

What is the licensing problem that prevents creating routable + contour
maps ?

> 
> However, transparent contour IMG files (that i'm making)  can be used
> as a background map (And a contour -only MapSource Installer and/or as
> available IMG tiles., for any map that you want. (is also in progress)
>  
I'm sorry I'm not yet familiar with the GPS I just got, but please let
me rephrase that so I am sure to understand :

"it is impossible to create a contour + routable + hiking on garmin, but
you are circomventing this limitation by generating an additional
transparent background map that can be overlaid on top of any other map,
including hiking+routable". Is that what you mean ?

Also, I wonder : what is the difference between the "contour map" that
you talk about and garmin's official "topographic" maps ? Do the
topographic map contain more information than the contour ?

> Yup, Slowly but surely, this is the goal todo.  In order to get to
> that point, there is a WHOLE LOT of technical process that needs to be
> done.
> 

No doubt about that ;) The beauty of software development ;-)

> To talk@ osm:   In other words, I just need to get a .nsis script file
> created using ground truth, (just like makemap has).  I can do that
> myself with an .iss file, but it will stall & is not automatic,  other
> than that were set on the back-end side.   For the front-end.  I have
> it set to edting a txt file.  and following dos command prompts.  But
> thats as technical as i know how.  (& Because it is using outside
> programs, the details i'll post on a blog or something)
> 
> Cheers,
> Sam
> 
> 

Regards,
Sami


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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Lambertus]

On 05/16/2010 01:57 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> Yes, such a project would be useful. I suggest you get in contact with
> some of the people already running something similar, e.g.:
>
>  http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php
>
> That project has selectable maps, a mapsource installer and more.
> Presumably it could use some programming help to perhaps make custom
> maps.
>
>
I would like that to happen (users choosing their own product id, add 
contours, prefer cycling or car etc) but the server is already 
overloaded and there is just no chance that more functionality could be 
added. So, that's left to others (and there are plenty of others already).

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Gregory]

On 16 May 2010 03:13, Steve Bennett  wrote:
>
> There is already a central registry of these kinds of sites:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download
>

This is the most important page, and if you start providing Garmin maps for
another area/use please add yourself to that list. It would be great if
someone did some good SEO(search engine optimisation) to either that page or
to a Garmin/OSM page of their own.

For people who can't manage downloading a file, Andy provides a nice service
of posting garmin maps on an SD card. http://shop.opencyclemap.org/ I don't
know if he gets a tiny profit margin or not, but the prices are good just
for blank SD cards!

-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Andrew McCarthy]

Hi,

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 08:48:53PM -0400, Sami Dalouche wrote:
> The http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php page contains only
> auto-routable maps, right ?
> 
> My current need is to get :
> - routable maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY
> - hiking maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY
> 
> But more generally, I think I would like to (and think it would benefit
> the OSM community if it were possible) be able to just go one one
> website, that presents me with all the maps I can download for a given
> (predefined) area, and quickly load it to my GPS device.

There's also http://gpsmapsearch.com/ which links to other people's
maps. This is the highest referrer to my own web page of Irish Garmin
maps.

Andrew

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Sam Vekemans]

Nice,
I've added a 'downloads' section on each of Canada's provincial wiki
pages, for those who dont need upto the minuite Garmin Maps. Thanks to
Cloudmade.com for having the .osm files made.
-i'll need to figure out how to get my listing on their
Sam

On 5/17/10, Andrew McCarthy  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 08:48:53PM -0400, Sami Dalouche wrote:
>> The http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php page contains only
>> auto-routable maps, right ?
>>
>> My current need is to get :
>> - routable maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY
>> - hiking maps for Quebec, Vermont, New Hampshire, and NY
>>
>> But more generally, I think I would like to (and think it would benefit
>> the OSM community if it were possible) be able to just go one one
>> website, that presents me with all the maps I can download for a given
>> (predefined) area, and quickly load it to my GPS device.
>
> There's also http://gpsmapsearch.com/ which links to other people's
> maps. This is the highest referrer to my own web page of Irish Garmin
> maps.
>
> Andrew
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Andy Allan]

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Gregory  wrote:

> For people who can't manage downloading a file, Andy provides a nice service
> of posting garmin maps on an SD card. http://shop.opencyclemap.org/ I don't
> know if he gets a tiny profit margin or not, but the prices are good just
> for blank SD cards!

Thanks. I make a small "profit" on each sale, after everyone else
takes their cut (paypal fees, shipping, and so on). But "profit" on
each sale of SD cards is eaten up entirely by the combination of
monthly site running costs, postal losses (grr) and other overheads.
I'll need a lot more sales before I can fund the rest of opencyclemap
with income from the shop, and I laugh when I think of what my hourly
rate works out as!

The situation is even worse for the OSM surveyors jackets, where the
margin is so small (under a pound) that a single lost item would take
me around another 20 sales just to make back. So far I've sold three,
and the first one of those (to a certain someone you might know)
actually worked out at a materials loss (of 17p), not counting monthly
overheads. But it's great promotion for OSM, helps raise money for
OSMF, and I think these things are important.

So if anyone is wondering, the little shop that I have is
time-consuming and barely breaks even, but it's good fun to run and
has many happy customers, and that's really why I do it.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[SteveC]

Why do you take responsibility for postal losses? That seems super bad luck. 
You're running a business right not a socialist theocracy.

Just put a note on the checkout that says

uninsured postal delivery: £4
recorded, insured delivery: £10

or whatever.


On May 18, 2010, at 5:03 AM, Andy Allan wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Gregory  wrote:
> 
>> For people who can't manage downloading a file, Andy provides a nice service
>> of posting garmin maps on an SD card. http://shop.opencyclemap.org/ I don't
>> know if he gets a tiny profit margin or not, but the prices are good just
>> for blank SD cards!
> 
> Thanks. I make a small "profit" on each sale, after everyone else
> takes their cut (paypal fees, shipping, and so on). But "profit" on
> each sale of SD cards is eaten up entirely by the combination of
> monthly site running costs, postal losses (grr) and other overheads.
> I'll need a lot more sales before I can fund the rest of opencyclemap
> with income from the shop, and I laugh when I think of what my hourly
> rate works out as!
> 
> The situation is even worse for the OSM surveyors jackets, where the
> margin is so small (under a pound) that a single lost item would take
> me around another 20 sales just to make back. So far I've sold three,
> and the first one of those (to a certain someone you might know)
> actually worked out at a materials loss (of 17p), not counting monthly
> overheads. But it's great promotion for OSM, helps raise money for
> OSMF, and I think these things are important.
> 
> So if anyone is wondering, the little shop that I have is
> time-consuming and barely breaks even, but it's good fun to run and
> has many happy customers, and that's really why I do it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 
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Yours &c.

Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Andy Allan]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:34 PM, SteveC  wrote:
> Why do you take responsibility for postal losses? That seems super bad luck. 
> You're running a business right not a socialist theocracy.
>
> Just put a note on the checkout that says
>
> uninsured postal delivery: £4
> recorded, insured delivery: £10

I can tell you haven't run an online shop yet :-) The insurance and
recording is irrelevant to the customer, since it's me who is insured
and/or making the claim - so it makes no sense to offer the customer
the choice. I have two choices, either to charge considerably more for
recorded post, which adds hassle to both me and my customers, or go
with the default postage and hope that both the mail company delivers
and the customers don't falsely claim non-receipt.

I say "hope" but it's actually carefully balanced - the extra
cost-per-sale (and subsequent reduction in sales) is weighed against
the occasional loss but increased revenue from lower prices. The
tipping point depends largely on the margin per sale (the bigger the
margin, the less of a problem re-sending becomes), so I handle some
products differently to others.

Good to know that you are confusing great customer services and
careful economics with misplaced religious belief systems!

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[SteveC]

interesting:


http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/When-Items-Get-Lost-In-The-Post_W0QQugidZ103212591

out of interest, does RM actually compensate you then?

On May 21, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Andy Allan wrote:

> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:34 PM, SteveC  wrote:
>> Why do you take responsibility for postal losses? That seems super bad luck. 
>> You're running a business right not a socialist theocracy.
>> 
>> Just put a note on the checkout that says
>> 
>> uninsured postal delivery: £4
>> recorded, insured delivery: £10
> 
> I can tell you haven't run an online shop yet :-) The insurance and
> recording is irrelevant to the customer, since it's me who is insured
> and/or making the claim - so it makes no sense to offer the customer
> the choice. I have two choices, either to charge considerably more for
> recorded post, which adds hassle to both me and my customers, or go
> with the default postage and hope that both the mail company delivers
> and the customers don't falsely claim non-receipt.
> 
> I say "hope" but it's actually carefully balanced - the extra
> cost-per-sale (and subsequent reduction in sales) is weighed against
> the occasional loss but increased revenue from lower prices. The
> tipping point depends largely on the margin per sale (the bigger the
> margin, the less of a problem re-sending becomes), so I handle some
> products differently to others.
> 
> Good to know that you are confusing great customer services and
> careful economics with misplaced religious belief systems!
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 

Yours &c.

Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[John Smith]

On 22 May 2010 01:55, SteveC  wrote:
> out of interest, does RM actually compensate you then?

I don't know about RM in the UK, but Auspost in Australia hates paying
up on insurance claims and they will usually track it down and find it
as a result :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin Maps

[Maarten Deen]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:28:36 -0700, Sam Vekemans
 wrote:
> Hi all,
> Is there an #osm-garmin IRC chat for those who specialize in making
> custom garmin maps?
> 
> I think there is a need to combine the tallent that is collectively
> known about all the tools available to make it.
> With an aim to make a better central repository for the maps.
> And a slippy map system where Contours & typ styles can be made.

Isn't the mkgmap mailinglist suitable for that?


Regards,
Maarten


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[OSM-talk] Garmin maps for India? Contours?

[Steve Bennett]

Hi all,
  As usual I've left this to the last minute, but wondering if anyone
knows of any downloadable Garmin maps, preferably bicycle ones, for
northern India (Himachal Pradesh). I'm going to try the Cloudmade ones
as a backup (they're not routable or bike specific), but are there any
others?

Secondly, what about contours? I'm going to try this site:
http://blog.bokhorst.biz/1864/computers-en-internet/how-to-create-custom-garmin-contour-maps/
but it's a worry when the author thinks that a 21 step process
involving 6 downloads is "very easy".

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps for India? Contours?

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 22:55 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
> Hi all,
>   As usual I've left this to the last minute, but wondering if anyone
> knows of any downloadable Garmin maps, preferably bicycle ones, for
> northern India (Himachal Pradesh). I'm going to try the Cloudmade ones
> as a backup (they're not routable or bike specific), but are there any
> others?
> 
> Secondly, what about contours? I'm going to try this site:
> http://blog.bokhorst.biz/1864/computers-en-internet/how-to-create-custom-garmin-contour-maps/
> but it's a worry when the author thinks that a 21 step process
> involving 6 downloads is "very easy".

post on talk-in - I know there is at least one guy working on that area,
possibly a few more


-- 
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Kenneth Gonsalves


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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps for India? Contours?

[Charlie Ferrero]

On 18/10/2010 15:55, Steve Bennett wrote:

Hi all,
   As usual I've left this to the last minute, but wondering if anyone
knows of any downloadable Garmin maps, preferably bicycle ones, for
northern India (Himachal Pradesh). I'm going to try the Cloudmade ones
as a backup (they're not routable or bike specific), but are there any
others?

Secondly, what about contours? I'm going to try this site:
http://blog.bokhorst.biz/1864/computers-en-internet/how-to-create-custom-garmin-contour-maps/
but it's a worry when the author thinks that a 21 step process
involving 6 downloads is "very easy".

Thanks,
Steve

How about: http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php or
http://openmtbmap.org/download/

Contours are a pain. If you've really left this to the last minute then 
you're not going to want to get up the learning curve for creating your 
own for Garmin devices.


--
Charlie

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps for India? Contours?

[Apollinaris Schoell]

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Charlie Ferrero wrote:

>
>
> Contours are a pain. If you've really left this to the last minute then
> you're not going to want to get up the learning curve for creating your own
> for Garmin devices.
>
>
I have a little script which can do it from download to mkgmap. requires a
bunch of utilities installed like gdal, proj4, shp2osm, perl ...
once this is done it is only a question of compute time.
for northern india srtm is probably bad quality and viewfinderpanorama will
be much better with all the voids filled in.

don't have access to my machine currently so can't help for a short term map
creation. eventually can get to access the scripts later today




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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps for India? Contours?

[Steve Bennett]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Apollinaris Schoell  wrote:
>> Contours are a pain. If you've really left this to the last minute then
>> you're not going to want to get up the learning curve for creating your own
>> for Garmin devices.
>>
>
> I have a little script which can do it from download to mkgmap. requires a
> bunch of utilities installed like gdal, proj4, shp2osm, perl ...
> once this is done it is only a question of compute time.

Yeah, I hadn't realised that contours are so complicated. I definitely
don't have the time to investigate all that stuff, but I got some help
on talk-in, so I'll see how that goes.

Thanks all,
Steve

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[OSM-talk] Garmin maps with SRTM countours and OSM data?

[David Ebling]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone can help me - I want
to make a Garmin .IMG file of the whole of cumbria
that includes NASA SRTM data, as the IMG files from
here do: http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm but i'd
also like to have OSM road, footpath, cycle path etc
data on there too. The Garmin unit i'm trying to use
it on is a 60Csx, which doesn't seem able to display
more than one map for an area at a time, so i'm not
able to have the SRTM data in one map file and the
OSM/MapSource data in another, and show both at once.

Can anyone help with this? I would like to do the same
for the south downs area too once I've worked out how
to do this?

I'm not hugely familiar with the more technical
aspects of this, and am working on windows. I am
pretty computer literate though.

Thanks for any help,

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps with SRTM countours and OSM data?

[Ludwig]

On 23/03/2008, David Ebling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone can help me - I want
> to make a Garmin .IMG file of the whole of cumbria
> that includes NASA SRTM data, as the IMG files from
> here do: http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm but i'd
> also like to have OSM road, footpath, cycle path etc
> data on there too. The Garmin unit i'm trying to use
> it on is a 60Csx, which doesn't seem able to display
> more than one map for an area at a time, so i'm not
> able to have the SRTM data in one map file and the
> OSM/MapSource data in another, and show both at once.


I am a bit surprised you can only show one map at a time, but I have an
etrex and their capabilities may vary. I could simply be that both maps you
are trying to show are non-transparent.

While OSM has its own map compiler I have always used cgpsmapper (
www.cgpsmapper.com) which uses an input format known as the 'Polish' or mp
format. Anyway, technically you can use GPSMapEdit to extract the map data
from the SMC file into 'Polish format' and there are some older programs on
the OSM site on how to transform the OSM format into the Polish format as
well. You can then simply provide a combined input file for both raw data
formats and recompile the data into a single map.

There is also a program called gmaptool (difficult to find:
http://www.anpo.republika.pl/download.html#gmaptool) which has a simple join
facility, but it might not work if you are dealing with overlapping maps
(the main purpose is to combine non-overlapping maps for use with some of
the newer Garmins which only allow a single image to be present).

HTH

Ludwig
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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps with SRTM countours and OSM data?

[Igor Brejc]

Hi David,

David Ebling wrote:
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone can help me - I want
> to make a Garmin .IMG file of the whole of cumbria
> that includes NASA SRTM data, as the IMG files from
> here do: http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm but i'd
> also like to have OSM road, footpath, cycle path etc
> data on there too. The Garmin unit i'm trying to use
> it on is a 60Csx, which doesn't seem able to display
> more than one map for an area at a time, so i'm not
> able to have the SRTM data in one map file and the
> OSM/MapSource data in another, and show both at once.
>   
Are you sure? I use eTrex Vista, which is a cheaper model than 60csx and 
I use OSM data + separate contours without problems. The order of 
loading maps is important (when you look at the list of maps on your GPS 
unit, contours maps should be at the end of the list). And I think 
certain maps have some sort of "transparency" setting turned on, and 
some do not, but I'm not sure. I use contours which were generated with 
DEM2TOPO tool (I didn't do this myself).
> Can anyone help with this? I would like to do the same
> for the south downs area too once I've worked out how
> to do this?
>
> I'm not hugely familiar with the more technical
> aspects of this, and am working on windows. I am
> pretty computer literate though.
>   
Check out http://home.cinci.rr.com/creek/garmin.htm and 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Srtm2Osm#Categorizing_Contours_For_Mkgmap.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin maps with SRTM countours and OSM data?

[Stephen Wing]

I've tried this, and had all sorts of problems doing this myself, on my
Windows machine.

First of all, all the maps have to be in a single gmapsupp.img file, but can
still be separate maps within that file, as long as you have combined them
before converting to the Garmin format.  Combining the SMC Contours with OSM
maps produced by mkgmap (the OSM map needed splitting with osmcut.jar which
introduces additional problems itself including some roads not appearing)
causes problems - as you scroll through the various zoom levels you either
get contours or OSM maps, and only at certain zoom levels will you get
both.  I'm sure spending a lot more time with changing the mkgmap settings
would result in getting everything right...

However, I've been working with some other guys and we are now planning to
take the raw SRTM data and ensuring it's built with the same mkgmap settings
as the OSM map, which removes these zooming problems.  We are working on
producing regular updates of the OSM map for Garmin (with and without
contours) from a dedicated website www.mapomatic.net

Right now, we are beta testing the non-contour maps with a group of people
to make sure the maps work fine on a variety of different Garmin units
before we release this publicly and move onto working on the contour version
(and then onto some other OSM related projects).

Hopefully within the next few weeks / months, we would be able to provide
you with a full map of the UK with contours that you could use with your
60CSx, although you are welcome to sign up as a beta tester (I believe
Stuart has already contacted you directly offering you this).

Steve

On 23/03/2008, David Ebling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone can help me - I want
> to make a Garmin .IMG file of the whole of cumbria
> that includes NASA SRTM data, as the IMG files from
> here do: http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm but i'd
> also like to have OSM road, footpath, cycle path etc
> data on there too. The Garmin unit i'm trying to use
> it on is a 60Csx, which doesn't seem able to display
> more than one map for an area at a time, so i'm not
> able to have the SRTM data in one map file and the
> OSM/MapSource data in another, and show both at once.
>
> Can anyone help with this? I would like to do the same
> for the south downs area too once I've worked out how
> to do this?
>
> I'm not hugely familiar with the more technical
> aspects of this, and am working on windows. I am
> pretty computer literate though.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> David
>
>
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