[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering issue with *_link roads
I finally found out what the issue is with this [1] situation. My issue with it is that IMHO it is not good to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. I made a test here [2] where the left primary is a primary_link and the right primary is a primary proper. Apparently mapnik's renderering rules state that primary_link roads should be rendered below unclassified roads. I haven't inspected the rendering rules in detail (I'm also not familiar with them) but I have seen that tertiary_link roads are also rendered below unclassified roads. I expect that any *_link road is rendered below any other (or at least motorway - unclassified) road. Is this behaviour of mapnik wanted? As I said: IMHO it is not pleasing to the eye to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. In order of priority, a *_link road is just below its * counterpart but above the next lower road (so primary - primary_link - secondary). [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.352555lon=6.014996zoom=18 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.352419lon=6.010627zoom=18 Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering issue with *_link roads
Logically, you need to know the lower of the two classifications being linked, and it may also be useful to know the higher of the two being linked. So I record that information in links_lower and links_higher tags. Then it can be rendered very neatly. But I got flamed last time I proposed this ought to be fixed, so this information is offered on a tag-what-you-like basis, rather than a render-as-I-do basis. Richard On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: I finally found out what the issue is with this [1] situation. My issue with it is that IMHO it is not good to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. I made a test here [2] where the left primary is a primary_link and the right primary is a primary proper. Apparently mapnik's renderering rules state that primary_link roads should be rendered below unclassified roads. I haven't inspected the rendering rules in detail (I'm also not familiar with them) but I have seen that tertiary_link roads are also rendered below unclassified roads. I expect that any *_link road is rendered below any other (or at least motorway - unclassified) road. Is this behaviour of mapnik wanted? As I said: IMHO it is not pleasing to the eye to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. In order of priority, a *_link road is just below its * counterpart but above the next lower road (so primary - primary_link - secondary). [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?**lat=51.352555lon=6.014996**zoom=18http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.352555lon=6.014996zoom=18 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?**lat=51.352419lon=6.010627**zoom=18http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.352419lon=6.010627zoom=18 Regards, Maarten __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering issue with *_link roads
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: Is this behaviour of mapnik wanted? As I said: IMHO it is not pleasing to the eye to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. In order of priority, a *_link road is just below its * counterpart but above the next lower road (so primary - primary_link - secondary). I would guess that, yes, this is the intention. The example you point out is only minorly aesthetically displeasing. But if links were rendered on top of unclassified roads, the situation of a link merging into an unclassified (rather than passing through) would look much worse. Example: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2398828/scrot/link_order.png Granted, links don't feed into unclassifieds as often as they do higher classifications of road, but it still happens a lot. -- AJ Ashton ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering issue with *_link roads
That's why you need to know the lower of the two classifications being linked (so you can put the link just under the lower one) On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 4:11 PM, AJ Ashton aj.ash...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: Is this behaviour of mapnik wanted? As I said: IMHO it is not pleasing to the eye to see the unclassified road rendered on top of the primary_link road. In order of priority, a *_link road is just below its * counterpart but above the next lower road (so primary - primary_link - secondary). I would guess that, yes, this is the intention. The example you point out is only minorly aesthetically displeasing. But if links were rendered on top of unclassified roads, the situation of a link merging into an unclassified (rather than passing through) would look much worse. Example: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2398828/scrot/link_order.png Granted, links don't feed into unclassifieds as often as they do higher classifications of road, but it still happens a lot. -- AJ Ashton ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: +1. While I'd rather see these objects go away altogether, I think a tag of name=Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area on a closed way implies that this closed way represents an area called Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area. I'm not sure boundary=* is appropriate either, as this is not a political or governmental or pseudo-governmental division, though maybe I'm just not aware of how broadly that tag is used. Cool. Well, since these areas aren't AFAIK used for anything except these kinds of maps: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nearmap , there's no particular need for them to have tags like name=* or boundary=*. I've changed this one. Sounds good. I don't think storing these in OSM, with the non-overlapping tags, is harmful. While I'd love to see them in a separate database or at least a separate layer, the fact of the matter is that separate database and/or separate layer hasn't yet really been implemented. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
Anthony wrote: Sounds good. I don't think storing these in OSM, with the non-overlapping tags, is harmful. While I'd love to see them in a separate database or at least a separate layer, the fact of the matter is that separate database and/or separate layer hasn't yet really been implemented. This is the real problem! With more and more historic mapping material coming on line, and what seems like little support for the start_date/end_date tagging of physical objects that we have fairly accurate data on when they did make an appearance or when they were redeveloped, linking to other data sources where this information can be stored would at least allow it's integration? And the creation of 'temporary' layers where material is being worked on but has not yet been fully integrated would also seem to be a way forward even for general mapping? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 3:36 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Anthony wrote: Sounds good. I don't think storing these in OSM, with the non-overlapping tags, is harmful. While I'd love to see them in a separate database or at least a separate layer, the fact of the matter is that separate database and/or separate layer hasn't yet really been implemented. This is the real problem! With more and more historic mapping material coming on line, and what seems like little support for the start_date/end_date tagging of physical objects that we have fairly accurate data on when they did make an appearance or when they were redeveloped, linking to other data sources where this information can be stored would at least allow it's integration? And the creation of 'temporary' layers where material is being worked on but has not yet been fully integrated would also seem to be a way forward even for general mapping? Yeah. I don't think it would be too hard to hack something up that implements the basic API (enough to run JOSM against) and uses SQLite as a backend. This would be runnable by basically anyone, and good enough for small dataset layers like this one. Add in the ability to export to .osm format (very simple) and you could basically run Mapnik against it with no changes, with or without first merging with other datasets and/or OSM proper. But then, while I say it wouldn't be too hard, it would probably take a few weeks of full time coding, which unfortunately is something I don't have for something that isn't going to help me pay the bills. So as much as I hate to see these things in the main db, I'm accepting of it. Hopefully someone else will read this email, understand what I'm talking about, and love the idea, though :). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
I'm not sure if this is a recent change (or I've just noticed it), but it seems that tags that don't contain anything recognisable to mapnik other than a name are getting rendered: http://osm.org/go/uG42g@6EB-- That Melbourne;Geelong... label is on a way that defines the edge of the Nearmap imagery, and shouldn't be rendered. If the new policy is that anything in the database is liable to be rendered by the default mapnik stylesheet, then perhaps we need a way to indicate objects that shouldn't be rendered (perhaps osm_meta=yes ?) [Of course this change(?) has some benefits: the nearby Winneke Treatment Plant which I just mapped (http://osm.org/go/uG42SFtBP--) gets kind of rendered, even though there's no specific support for man_made=waterworks.] Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On 29/08/11 09:44, Steve Bennett wrote: I'm not sure if this is a recent change (or I've just noticed it), but it seems that tags that don't contain anything recognisable to mapnik other than a name are getting rendered: http://osm.org/go/uG42g@6EB-- It's always been the case that names sometimes get rendered for objects that haven't been rendered, because the names are produced by separate rendering rules and trying to attach to those rules a set of filters which match the set of objects which are rendered is more or less impossible. It's a bug in the mapnik stylesheet basically, but not one which is very to fix. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On 29/08/2011 09:44, Steve Bennett wrote: I'm not sure if this is a recent change (or I've just noticed it), but it seems that tags that don't contain anything recognisable to mapnik other than a name are getting rendered: http://osm.org/go/uG42g@6EB-- It's not a new thing, I don't think - in early 2009 I opened this: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1514 Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
Maybe it is something for osm2pgsql to deal with ? Yves SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk a écrit : On 29/08/2011 09:44, Steve Bennett wrote: I'm not sure if this is a recent change (or I've just noticed it), but it seems that tags that don't contain anything recognisable to mapnik other than a name are getting rendered: http://osm.org/go/uG42g@6EB-- It's not a new thing, I don't think - in early 2009 I opened this: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1514 Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: It's always been the case that names sometimes get rendered for objects that haven't been rendered, because the names are produced by separate rendering rules and trying to attach to those rules a set of filters which match the set of objects which are rendered is more or less impossible. It's a bug in the mapnik stylesheet basically, but not one which is very to fix. Thanks for the explanation. So I guess we should avoid using name=* on anything which should not be rendered. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
2011/8/29 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Thanks for the explanation. So I guess we should avoid using name=* on anything which should not be rendered. +1, IMHO it is also generally disputable to keep coverage-polygons of other data providers in the OSM main database. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On 29/08/11 16:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/8/29 Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: Thanks for the explanation. So I guess we should avoid using name=* on anything which should not be rendered. +1, IMHO it is also generally disputable to keep coverage-polygons of other data providers in the OSM main database. Yes I should have added that, in this case, my preference would be to remove the object altogether as aerial imagery coverage areas are not real on the ground objects that should be in our database. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: Particularly in this specific case, as nearmap coverage can't be used to derive OSM objects any more. The same mechanism is used for Yahoo, Bing etc coverage. Yes, it's debatable whether meta-objects should be stored in the OSM database, but that debate would also extend to meta-tags (note=*, fixme=*) I don't think the (itself questionable) maxim of don't tag for the renderer applies here, as these aren't real world objects. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote on 30/08/2011 11:14:32 AM: The same mechanism is used for Yahoo, Bing etc coverage. Yes, it's debatable whether meta-objects should be stored in the OSM database, but that debate would also extend to meta-tags (note=*, fixme=*) When I encounter these meta ways/nodes with a name tag, I always change it to a note tag. It is more aligned with a annotation than with a named object. More generally I do agree there should be a better place to store this meta-layer info, or if not certainly a way to tag it so it can be ignored by those only interested in the map features. Ian.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Ian Sergeant iserg...@hih.com.au wrote: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote on 30/08/2011 11:14:32 AM: The same mechanism is used for Yahoo, Bing etc coverage. Yes, it's debatable whether meta-objects should be stored in the OSM database, but that debate would also extend to meta-tags (note=*, fixme=*) That's pretty different, or at least potentially so. A note=* or fixme=* tag, at least in the way I've used them and seen them used, is just a human-readable rather than machine-readable description of something in the real world. When I encounter these meta ways/nodes with a name tag, I always change it to a note tag. It is more aligned with a annotation than with a named object. +1. While I'd rather see these objects go away altogether, I think a tag of name=Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area on a closed way implies that this closed way represents an area called Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area. I'm not sure boundary=* is appropriate either, as this is not a political or governmental or pseudo-governmental division, though maybe I'm just not aware of how broadly that tag is used. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering labels for unrecognised tags
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: +1. While I'd rather see these objects go away altogether, I think a tag of name=Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area on a closed way implies that this closed way represents an area called Melbourne;Geelong;South-Central NSW Area;Central Victoria Area. I'm not sure boundary=* is appropriate either, as this is not a political or governmental or pseudo-governmental division, though maybe I'm just not aware of how broadly that tag is used. Cool. Well, since these areas aren't AFAIK used for anything except these kinds of maps: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nearmap , there's no particular need for them to have tags like name=* or boundary=*. I've changed this one. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
Hi, For example, look at this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3229lon=-61.5603zoom=13layers=M The green overlay with NR letter cover almost everything, lands and sea ! It is hard to even distinguish what is the sea around the island. Can't this be fixed ? Prehaps make it render like natural parc : green boundary, very light green filling and no NR letter ? prehaps only render the boundary ? Thanks, Vlad. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
On 20 August 2010 14:53, Vladimir Vyskocil vladimir.vysko...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, For example, look at this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3229lon=-61.5603zoom=13layers=M The green overlay with NR letter cover almost everything, lands and sea ! It is hard to even distinguish what is the sea around the island. Can't this be fixed ? Prehaps make it render like natural parc : green boundary, very light green filling and no NR letter ? prehaps only render the boundary Osmarendering is better http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3315lon=-61.554zoom=13layers=O By the way what kind of nature reserve is that inside water ? some protected waters ? Re: NR for natural reserve . IMHO using names for landuses doesn't look good . Replacing it with some other art work which converys the same meaning would be a better idea. Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, pavithran wrote: Re: NR for natural reserve . IMHO using names for landuses doesn't look good . Replacing it with some other art work which converys the same meaning would be a better idea. I agree with your point - as soon as we consider users of non-Latin scripts and non-English speaking users it is a poor choice. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
2010/8/20 pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com: On 20 August 2010 14:53, Vladimir Vyskocil vladimir.vysko...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, For example, look at this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3229lon=-61.5603zoom=13layers=M The green overlay with NR letter cover almost everything, lands and sea ! It is hard to even distinguish what is the sea around the island. Can't this be fixed ? Prehaps make it render like natural parc : green boundary, very light green filling and no NR letter ? prehaps only render the boundary Osmarendering is better http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3315lon=-61.554zoom=13layers=O By the way what kind of nature reserve is that inside water ? some protected waters ? Yes, that usually map a territory where human activity is forbidden and endangered species lives (fishes, water animals like ducks, etc.). Anyway, I agree that rendering NR should be more like administrative zone with special rules, not current green overlay. At least not for default osm.org map. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
2010/8/20 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: Anyway, I agree that rendering NR should be more like administrative zone with special rules, not current green overlay. At least not for default osm.org map. +1 maybe also with different linetypes/colours for different protection grades and light hatches for very restricted areas. There is an extensive proposal for the classification in preparation here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary=protected_area cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. I think it's better now, as marina should be carved in the land by the coastline and nothing forbid to use also the marina tag. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
On 17-04-2010 14:38, Patrick Kilian wrote: Hi all, Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. Open a trac ticket for mapnik then. Neither Steve nor the others in that discussion had a strong opinion. Note that I didn't take part in that discussion but merely witnessed it. http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1681 contains a few back and forths, but as Patrick says, there was also some discussion on IRC (I wouldn't call it discussion, since there wasn't any disagreement, and a lot of indifference). The way I read the wiki at the time (from various pages), leisure=marina was for the land belonging to the marina. Seeing it rendered as sea sparked my initial interest in this. No matter which is correct, the previous method of rendering leisure=marina as sea does not make much sense, since it effectively means not rendering it at all. Rendering it as a border means you can use it for either the land, sea or both, and have it rendered in a useful fashion. Seems ideal to me. -- Jonas Häggqvist rasher(at)rasher(dot)dk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Hi Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? http://osm.org/go/eukhlr0la-- Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Hi all, Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: Does leisure=marina cover the land portion or the water portion of the marina hm, well don't know. wiki says it's the land part well anyway. rendering it in the color of water is bad. if it is water you don't see that it is a marina and if it is land it should be blue ah well makes sense. lets change it to a border line. that isn't confusing and opens more options when we want to start rendering tidal waters. ok lets make it a blue dashed line and see who complains. The discussion was about three week old and quoted from memory, so I might be slightly wrong. HTH, Patrick Petschge Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Dave F. wrote: Patrick Kilian wrote: Which forum do you mean by #osm? Thats certainly the IRC channel on OFTC : irc://irc.oftc.net #osm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Hi, IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: Which forum do you mean by #osm? The IRC channel #osm in the oftc network. (The one mentioned in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC#IRC) HTH, Patrick Petschge Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Patrick Kilian wrote: Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: [..] ok lets make it a blue dashed line and see who complains. Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Patrick Kilian wrote: Hi all, IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: Hi Which forum do you mean by #osm? IRC channel I'd guess. -- David James ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Hi all, Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: [..] ok lets make it a blue dashed line and see who complains. Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. Open a trac ticket for mapnik then. Neither Steve nor the others in that discussion had a strong opinion. Note that I didn't take part in that discussion but merely witnessed it. Patrick Petschge Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Patrick Kilian o...@petschge.de wrote: Hi all, Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: [..] ok lets make it a blue dashed line and see who complains. Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. Open a trac ticket for mapnik then. Neither Steve nor the others in that discussion had a strong opinion. Note that I didn't take part in that discussion but merely witnessed it. I remember that discussion, or one similar. The question at hand was how to distinguish the marina land area and water area from the surrounding land and water. The old-style marina-as-water made marina land area appear to be water. An outline, like administrative boundaries, does not have that flaw. A similar argument was made for national parks. Rather than painting them all green, show the boundary, let the distinct areas within show through. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
David James wrote: Patrick Kilian wrote: Hi all, IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: Hi Which forum do you mean by #osm? IRC channel I'd guess. Sorry, brain fade! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of Marinas changed
Richard Weait wrote: On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Patrick Kilian o...@petschge.de wrote: Hi all, Is there a reason why Mapnik's rendering of leisure=marina has change from a blue area to a dashed border line? IIRC there was a discussion in #osm which basically went like this: [..] ok lets make it a blue dashed line and see who complains. Count me as a complainer... I was wondering about that blue dashed line too - it does not fit well with the surrounding estuary and open sea. I'm in the process of mapping a marina and I spontaneously only tagged as a leisure=marina the water portion that is occupied by the harbour. Open a trac ticket for mapnik then. Neither Steve nor the others in that discussion had a strong opinion. Note that I didn't take part in that discussion but merely witnessed it. I remember that discussion, or one similar. The question at hand was how to distinguish the marina land area and water area from the surrounding land and water. The old-style marina-as-water made marina land area appear to be water. An outline, like administrative boundaries, does not have that flaw. Old style? When I checked up on how to tag them, the first time the examples I looked at all signified the water area assumed this was used in the majority? Is this not the case? If there wasn't a strong opinion I'm not sure why they changed it. Did they offer an alternative for the water area? Sea/River etc. doesn't seem to cover it. Wiki: This is a mooring place for boats To me this implies the water. You can't moor a boat on land. A similar argument was made for national parks. Rather than painting them all green, show the boundary, let the distinct areas within show through. This will apply to almost any item that's an enclosed area. I thought the layer=* tag was implemented to allow renderers to differentiate. - Going slightly off-topic, this appears to highlight a problem with IRC. A unilateral decision has been made only by people in the same time zone or with similar sleep patterns. Am I correct in thinking there's no record of Instant chat? Was this discussion transferred to a forum? As this appears to be a disagreement about the tagging not just a specific render, shouldn't this type of discussion be in a forum so that everybody can have their say? Regards Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
Hi, I noticed the blisteringly fast rendering the other day, it had started rendering before I'd even finished my editing session. Means I will need to hone my JOSM skills so that I'm not the slowest part of the system! Thanks Sys Admin Ninja's, we love you all. :) Ciarán ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
2009/9/11 Roman Neumüller r.neumul...@gmail.com: I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. Now the renderer is sucking up to the cartographers? It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. Shaun But seemingly only on zoomlevel 12 and higher numbers, right? Use a browser's refresh button :) Seriously, it helps. Again, thanks sysadmins for almost instant rendering :) Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
I'd noticed the increased speed as well. Thank you to all involved in making it happen. Ed Edward L. Hillsman, Ph.D. Senior Research Associate Center for Urban Transportation Research University of South Florida 4202 Fowler Ave., CUT100 Tampa, FL 33620-5375 813-974-2977 (tel) 813-974-5168 (fax) hills...@cutr.usf.edu http://www.cutr.usf.edu ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
I'd noticed the increased speed as well. Thank you to all involved in making it happen. I noticed this also. That's a great help - Thanks! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:07:01 -0400, Mike N. wrote: I noticed this also. That's a great help - Thanks! Thank you all, it is blindingly fast! -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 07:48 +0300, Roman Neumüller wrote: I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. Now the renderer is sucking up to the cartographers? It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. Shaun We moved the tile rendering to a new server[1] last weekend and this is rendering tiles several times faster than the old server. Currently it is managing to render all the tiles faster than the request rate so the changes are showing up very quickly. But seemingly only on zoomlevel 12 and higher numbers, right? Roman The tile expiry script only marks tiles between zoom 13 and 18 for automatic re-rendering. Limiting the minimum zoom is a performance optimisation, otherwise the low zoom tiles get re-rendered far too often. I'll try changing the minimum to 12 or 11 this weekend. As a fallback I may setup a forced weekly render of the low zoom tiles so they don't get left completely behind. Jon 1: yevaud http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/yevaud ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. STEVE ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Steve Chiltons.l.chil...@mdx.ac.uk wrote: I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. Now the renderer is sucking up to the cartographers? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:40, Richard Weait wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Steve Chiltons.l.chil...@mdx.ac.uk wrote: I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. Now the renderer is sucking up to the cartographers? It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
Shaun McDonald wrote: It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. But Steve was out at a conference when we switched over to the new tile server. Which is fast enough that it doesn't drop any render requests any more. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
Well thanks for those responsible for the change - it is certainly appreciated. And thanks to Lennard for putting the case for the defence! So impressed, I am going to edit some more Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: Lennard [mailto:l...@xs4all.nl] Sent: Thu 10/09/2009 22:45 To: Shaun McDonald Cc: Richard Weait; talk@openstreetmap.org; Steve Chilton Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering Shaun McDonald wrote: It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. But Steve was out at a conference when we switched over to the new tile server. Which is fast enough that it doesn't drop any render requests any more. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering
I don't know whether I have missed something, or else am just lucky, but mapnik is rendering the things I am editing super-fast. Two new and different renders of an area in about 30 minutes. Now the renderer is sucking up to the cartographers? It's really old news, that tile.openstreetmap.org is using the minutely diffs. Shaun But seemingly only on zoomlevel 12 and higher numbers, right? Roman ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
Hi, I thought I'd do some editing in Inkscape on an SVG/PDF version of a map, and discovered Openstreetmap.org's export tab. Unfortunately, though I get a result from the Osmarender option, the Mapnik output doesn't work. http://badgertrack.com/images/swindon-oxford.png (roughly http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.619lon=-1.496zoom=10layers=B000FTFT) ...unless you zoom out... http://badgertrack.com/images/mapnik-export-coast.png This looks like a bug/problem with the Openstreetmap Mapnik Export rendering. Can anyone confirm, or fix? Ben -- b...@crouchingbadger.com | http://crouchingbadger.com 51.717817,-1.225855 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
Ben Ward wrote: This looks like a bug/problem with the Openstreetmap Mapnik Export rendering. Can anyone confirm, or fix? Mapnik export doesn't work on Wednesdays while the database is reloaded. I believe there's an intention to fix this in the medium term (help welcome no doubt). Meanwhile I'll add it to the FAQ on the wiki. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Mapnik-rendering-export-has-only-coastline-tp22955618p22955846.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
Richard Fairhurst wrote: Ben Ward wrote: This looks like a bug/problem with the Openstreetmap Mapnik Export rendering. Can anyone confirm, or fix? Mapnik export doesn't work on Wednesdays while the database is reloaded. I believe there's an intention to fix this in the medium term (help welcome no doubt). Meanwhile I'll add it to the FAQ on the wiki. Maybe we should remove the Export tab when it is out of commision? Cheers, Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
Chris Hill wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Ben Ward wrote: This looks like a bug/problem with the Openstreetmap Mapnik Export rendering. Can anyone confirm, or fix? Mapnik export doesn't work on Wednesdays while the database is reloaded. I believe there's an intention to fix this in the medium term (help welcome no doubt). Meanwhile I'll add it to the FAQ on the wiki. Maybe we should remove the Export tab when it is out of commision? Yes, because the users of all the other export modes that aren't dependent on the mapnik database would love that. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 08:54:30PM +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: Maybe we should remove the Export tab when it is out of commision? Yes, because the users of all the other export modes that aren't dependent on the mapnik database would love that. There’s nothing like a bit of dry sarcasm to cheer the place up. The whole Export tab is never out of commission, so how about just disabling the Mapnik exports when we know they are not going to work? Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
On Wed, 2009-04-08 at 21:54 +0100, Simon Ward wrote: On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 08:54:30PM +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: Maybe we should remove the Export tab when it is out of commision? Yes, because the users of all the other export modes that aren't dependent on the mapnik database would love that. There’s nothing like a bit of dry sarcasm to cheer the place up. The whole Export tab is never out of commission, so how about just disabling the Mapnik exports when we know they are not going to work? The current plan is to enhance the Mapnik update process so that the weekly import will go into a temporary DB. The export to can carry on rendering the existing data during the import. Then old data will be dropped and the new data put in its place which should only take a few seconds. The above plan is fine in principle but I need to work out an automated script which does all the steps in the right sequence an make sure that the partition containing the database does not run out of disk space. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Martijn van Oosterhout schrieb: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:47 PM, sylvain letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I know there are strong oppositions on this list to that way of doing, some guys that have the power by the fact they own the renderer might be unappy of changes they have to do on their styles and software and I completly understand them Yeah, we have soo much power. We actively prevent people from learning how to change things. Not. Come on. There is no the renderer, you can set up your own if you like. Anyone can. Of course, I could climb on the top of the mount everest - in theory. In practise I would need a lot of time to learn how to do that. So in theory you're correct, in practise unfortunately not so much. Remember: we're not on OSM-dev here ;-) BTW: By saying anyone can someone can easily understand this as ... and if you can't, you're a lazy idiot. You just need to realise that putting something on a wiki page doesn't obligate anybody to support it. I perfectly agree with you here. And forget just the renderers, there are dozens of programs that have lists of supported tags. Next you'll be complaining that certain tags are not supported by routing programs... Supporting a new tag has a significant cost and I don't think anyone is in a position to force someone to support it anywhere. Yes, I have spend a lot of time bringing POIs to the map rendering in JOSM. I can assure you that this can be a very time consuming task. However. When I started to work on the map display, I was asking on the list how to improve the POI display in general - My idea was that putting the POIs on the map will encourage mappers to actually add this stuff to the database. You know, stuff that you see is actually a lot more interesting than stuff that you don't see :-) The answers I got from the list for both mapnik/osmarender can be summarized as: We don't want to have those icons on our map, this will look ugly. This really discouraged me to spend any effort on improving the mapnik or osmarender maps. In the meantime, the map display in JOSM has currently - by far - the best coverage in POI display compared to Mapnik / Osmarender, mostly because of effort I spend on this topic. So yes, the list (if this is what you meant with we?) actually prevented me to work on the mapnik/osmarender maps ... Regards, ULFL P.S: To avoid any missunderstandings: I'm perfectly aware that the Mapnik/Osmarender/JOSM map displays all have their advantages and disadvantages. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Nathan wrote: Maybe the answer is to modify the map features table and add columns for mapnik, osmarender, cyclemap, etc. Maybe getting rid of the generic rendering column and making it rendering for each of the viewers. What do you think? If someone does modify Map Features to add extra columns to the tables then the perl script which automatically parses the page to highlight the Not in Map Features items in the Maplint layer will also need amending. Because there may be an ever increasing number of columns (as perhaps there are more and more renderers), it may be better for each renderer to have a separate page showing the items that they render (indeed I believe some render features that aren't (currently) in Map Features). Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
If someone does modify Map Features to add extra columns to the tables then the perl script which automatically parses the page to highlight the Not in Map Features items in the Maplint layer will also need amending. Whaou, I wasn't aware of that ! Doesn't it looks like a bit strange that a wiki page (by nature wiki is not an easy to parse format such as xml) is parsed to feed a program ? Since there is a maybe need wouldn't it be a good idea (or maybe someone allready does ?) to create an xml version of the map feature ? Clever enough to be possible to integrate it in OSM editors, renderers, validators, and so on ? I'm willing to help on that if this is not allready the case, or to join the effort if it has started somewhere -- Sylvain Letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] qui suis-je : http://slyserv.dyndns.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Since there is a maybe need wouldn't it be a good idea (or
maybe someone
allready does ?) to create an xml version of the map feature ?
That is sort of what the perl script does, or tries to, I think.
Once it has the XML file the program can see whether a given feature
is in that file or not. It can then do further validation on the
values (as well as the keys). Here is a bit out of the middle of the
generated not-in-map_features.xml created by not-in-map_features.pl
(which if you run the [EMAIL PROTECTED] client is in the subfolder
maplint\tests\strict)
xsl:when test=@k='boundary'
xsl:choose
xsl:when test=@v='administrative' /
xsl:when test=@v='civil' /
xsl:when test=@v='national_park' /
xsl:when test=@v='political' /
xsl:otherwise
maplint:result
xsl:value-of select=concat('Value not in map features: ',
@k, '=', @v) /
/maplint:result
/xsl:otherwise
/xsl:choose
/xsl:when
I think this then gets built into the tests.xml or tests.xsl files
in the maplint folder but I've not looked into it in quite that
detail to see how and when.
There are both advantages and disadvantages to maintaining an XML
version. In my opinion the advantages of parsing the Map Features
page include that I suspect it is easier for many users to add new
features to a wiki page than in an XML file. The disadvantages I see
are that users won't know that the page is parsed to extract the
information, and so might not know the rules the parsing uses (one
example might be that User defined allows any value in the Maplint
validation, but a user might just put a * in the value column to
allow anything. It might be, and I haven't checked, that the maplint
script will then check for a value of '*' as valid, and otherwise
report not in Map Features).
I'm not saying either that the not-in-map_features.pl script can't
be amended, but the structure of Map Features was standardised (as I
understand it) to allow the automatic parsing (such as a set number
of columns in a table row, the correct tags for node/way/area in the
relevant column to know which tags are valid on which items, etc).
If a new column were to be added to one of the sections though it
would need adding to all of them and the line
next unless $#columns == 5;
in sub parse_featuretemplate would need updating in the Perl script.
Ed
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Nathan Mixter The Map Features is edited manually, means that we have to accept the fact that the list of all key/values supported by all OSM applications will never be complet and up-to-date in this wiki page. Map Features is a great page and very usefull for beginners and others. And with the templates, it is also translated in many languages making the list of key/values consistent over many countries. But I think personnally that the page is already too big. It should concentrate on the most popular key/values and not list all e.g. sports or shops of the world. Such keys could be mentionned with their most popular values and the remaining in their own dedicated key page (I could say the same for barrier traffic_calming). Also, recent additions create confusion : e.g. smothness and tracktype; or highway=footway documented as Equivalent to highway=path + foot=designated. What means equivalent ? Do we have now different tags for the same thing ? This creates unnecessary complications and reluctance for beginners. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Ulf Lamping wrote: Come on. There is no the renderer, you can set up your own if you like. Anyone can. Of course, I could climb on the top of the mount everest - in theory. In practise I would need a lot of time to learn how to do that. Yes so what? I learned how osmarender styles worked without knowing a thing about XSLT. And everyone who has ever looked at CSS would be able to copy'n paste his way to a new style in osma. BTW: By saying anyone can someone can easily understand this as ... and if you can't, you're a lazy idiot. No he isn't. He is saying that some people were bothered so much by their perceived lack of rendering that they invested the efforts to learn how to do styles while others aren't. Others don't seem to be bothered enough to trigger any action. Nothing to do with lazyness. When I started to work on the map display, I was asking on the list how to improve the POI display in general - My idea was that putting the POIs on the map will encourage mappers to actually add this stuff to the database. You know, stuff that you see is actually a lot more interesting than stuff that you don't see :-) The answers I got from the list for both mapnik/osmarender can be summarized as: We don't want to have those icons on our map, this will look ugly. Whoever told you this told bullshit :). I as current th server operator was/am imaging a POI layer on [EMAIL PROTECTED] for quite some time. All it takes is a person that is annoyed enough by the lack of POIs to do the osma stylesheets for such a POI layer. I have been communicating that for a while and nobody has stepped forward to create them. This is the only reason why [EMAIL PROTECTED] has no POI layer. I invite you or whoever wants such a layer to commit the necessary stylesheets to SVN. So yes, the list (if this is what you meant with we?) actually prevented me to work on the mapnik/osmarender maps ... We, is whoever is *actually* doing things. You are apparently investing lots of effort in JOSM rendering and it has therefore improved tremendously. In this case we is you. :-) spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in that case we better find another solution which can tell what tags programs will try to support. Actually, a page like map features which documented such things would be good. But the current craze on the wiki is to ignore reality, run some voting stuff to make it look official, and then try to bend reality to fit whatever's decided by the wiki-fiddlers. I wish we could have a wiki page that describes tags which are supported by at least one of the major renderers (main mapnik, osmarender, cyclemap), routing software or widely used. Now a number of tags on map features are very rarely used or even usable (bus_guideway) or generally not rendered (path). As it is now, I think map features is confusing and often of little help when trying to find the best way to tag a feature. - Gustav ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
I wish we could have a wiki page that describes tags which are supported by at least one of the major renderers (main mapnik, osmarender, cyclemap) A column in the map feature saying which renderer is using it ? generally not rendered (path). osmarender does As it is now, I think map features is confusing and often of little help when trying to find the best way to tag a feature. My 6 month ago newbie search for that was : - launch potlatch - use the few pre-defined keys - bark on that because too few (or undocumented) - launch JOSM - use the more pre-defined keys - re-bark on that because too much missing and low documentation - dreamed of a wiki page explaining it, and found it, the map features : a central point, to me, giving approved tags - discovered tagwatch and found it of no use for a mapping process - now I'm happily fighting with others on the might be best way to propose a solution to common problem by the process of discussing/voting/depracting and so on By finding a compromise between not changing too much things, explaining the defaults of the current model, and avoiding at maximum having duplicate tags for the same object. Yeah, I know there are strong oppositions on this list to that way of doing, some guys that have the power by the fact they own the renderer might be unappy of changes they have to do on their styles and software and I completly understand them And yeah, I've been told several time, if your not happy with that, then do it yourself. And that's what I'm going to do, but I fear something like a split, which I think we should avoid. So we still need a central point of DB structure, and I don't see for now anything but the map feature The only things I'm not happy with, is the fast addition to this map feature by guys who thinks this is best to go fast (and happily have had 5 friends's votes), while a long discussion would have : - spotted the problems - let more people now about that new possible evolution Instead of setting the wall at developper side, and creating a damned, why is my brand new feature still not appearing on mapnik ? and not comming too much to a developper 's veto either, I think discussion, preferably long, could help improve things -- Sylvain Letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] qui suis-je : http://slyserv.dyndns.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:47 PM, sylvain letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I know there are strong oppositions on this list to that way of doing, some guys that have the power by the fact they own the renderer might be unappy of changes they have to do on their styles and software and I completly understand them Yeah, we have soo much power. We actively prevent people from learning how to change things. Not. Come on. There is no the renderer, you can set up your own if you like. Anyone can. You just need to realise that putting something on a wiki page doesn't obligate anybody to support it. And forget just the renderers, there are dozens of programs that have lists of supported tags. Next you'll be complaining that certain tags are not supported by routing programs... Supporting a new tag has a significant cost and I don't think anyone is in a position to force someone to support it anywhere. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Maybe the answer is to modify the map features table and add columns for mapnik, osmarender, cyclemap, etc. Maybe getting rid of the generic rendering column and making it rendering for each of the viewers. What do you think? I think there is a wysiwyg media wiki plugin that might make editing the table easier. If we have something like this, it may make managing the table less time consuming so we can keep it up to date with all the newest official tags and how they look with each of the renders. I wish we could have a wiki page that describes tags which are supported by at least one of the major renderers (main mapnik, osmarender, cyclemap), routing software or widely used. Now a number of tags on map features are very rarely used or even usable (bus_guideway) or generally not rendered (path). As it is now, I think map features is confusing and often of little help when trying to find the best way to tag a feature.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Johnny Rose Carlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map Features page? Ahahahahahahaha. So what? Are you saying Map Features is useless?, in that case we better find another solution which can tell what tags programs will try to support. That'll be the list of features/tags that a program supports, and published by the person who makes that program. It's entirely possible that they don't publish such a list, in which case you'll have to guess or read the source code if it's available. Map features is probably a reasonable first shot, but it's not binding on anyone, and any implication that just because something is documented on map features, then programs should be using it, is just plain wrong. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Hi, Igor Brejc wrote: Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused. I checked a random sample. Of 10 highway=path objects I checked, 8 had been highway=footway before someone decided to change it. One was a highway=residential before. One was newly created as highway=path. I made an effort to select objects edited by different users. So: Someone thought that dropping the well-established and well-working highway=footway was a good idea. He or she seems to have managed to convince people to actually *change* existing data to fit his new idea, without, obviously, spending a second thinking about the data consumers (i.e. renderers and others). Unfortunately it is much too easy to upset things in this way, which is simply irresponsible - if you break a working system then it is your damn responsibility to get it working again, and not to complain about others not following your command. (The you here being meant generally - I know that you, Igor, were not involved.) I have added the following to the Proposed features page but I fear I'm fighting windmills here: Please note: OpenStreetMap software is designed and maintained by individuals. They may or may not follow or like new feature proposals. Do not expect that just because something passes a vote, it will automatically show up in map renderings or influence routing. This is true especially if you intend to change a hitherto working tag schema into something else; the makers of maps and software will not necessarily view this as an improvement, and unless you get their buy-in beforehand, your change might actually worsen the OpenStreetMap user experience. A majority of 5 or 10 or 50 votes out of tens of thousands of contributors does not put you in a position to demand something from software makers. If the success of your proposal depends on changes to software, either find people who will do it for you or do it yourself. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Johnny Rose Carlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map Features page? Ahahahahahahaha. So what? Are you saying Map Features is useless? No, it's not useless. But there's no point in using the existence of a tag on a wiki page to try to back up a case for getting it rendered. in that case we better find another solution which can tell what tags programs will try to support. Actually, a page like map features which documented such things would be good. But the current craze on the wiki is to ignore reality, run some voting stuff to make it look official, and then try to bend reality to fit whatever's decided by the wiki-fiddlers. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map Features page? Ahahahahahahaha. So what? Are you saying Map Features is useless?, in that case we better find another solution which can tell what tags programs will try to support. Best regards, - Johnny Carlsen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Hello, This question has come up several times (from what I could Google out), but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to render highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it would be nice to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same as footways, as far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused. Second issue: I've just added an area tagged with place=locality, but Osmarender doesn't seem to render it (I don't know about Mapnik). This would be a nice feature to have (especially for cycling map). Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Igor Brejc wrote: This question has come up several times (from what I could Google out), but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to render highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it would be nice to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same as footways, as far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused. How about if you want them rendered you tag them with the standard tagging of highway=footway that we've been using for the last several years and which mapnik already supports? It's no use saying never mind the debate. By that logic I could announce that in future I'm going to tag all motorways as highway=frog and demand that people never mind the debate and just render highway=frog as a motorway. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Wednesday - patch by Bernhard H integrated and submitted yesterday. Locality has been in mapnik style for a while and should render fine. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Learning and Quality Enhancement Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Brejc Sent: 03 November 2008 16:14 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general Hello, This question has come up several times (from what I could Google out), but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to render highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it would be nice to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same as footways, as far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused. Second issue: I've just added an area tagged with place=locality, but Osmarender doesn't seem to render it (I don't know about Mapnik). This would be a nice feature to have (especially for cycling map). Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
Tom Hughes wrote: Igor Brejc wrote: This question has come up several times (from what I could Google out), but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to render highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it would be nice to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same as footways, as far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused. How about if you want them rendered you tag them with the standard tagging of highway=footway that we've been using for the last several years and which mapnik already supports? It's no use saying never mind the debate. By that logic I could announce that in future I'm going to tag all motorways as highway=frog and demand that people never mind the debate and just render highway=frog as a motorway. Tom Ok, but is there anywhere in OSM world a law that says use footways and not paths? Aren't we constantly reiterating the fact that tagging is democratic? Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map Features page? I don't see a reason (and I don't intend to continue) the debate about this issue. I was merely asking when/if this feature will be rendered in Mapnik. And I didn't announce any plans to use or disuse this tag. Best regards, Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Igor Brejc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aren't we constantly reiterating the fact that tagging is democratic? I think democratic is the wrong word. You can do what you like. There's no tyranny of the masses, for a start - minorities and majorities are both on equal footing with tagging. Consuming data is entirely up to whoever is doing it to use or ignore OSM data as they see fit. Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map Features page? Ahahahahahahaha. So what? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapnik rendering or tagging issue?
If you look at http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.52lon=-73.59zoom=8layers=B000FTFT you should see an urban island labelled Laval and Longueil. If you zoom out, only Laval is left, while if you zoom in you'll discover that this is really the island of Montreal. Is this a problem in mapnik or is it a problem with the OSM data? If the latter, how can I fix it? Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering or tagging issue?
Stefan asked: Is this a problem in mapnik or is it a problem with the OSM data? If the latter, how can I fix it? It looks like the data is OK. All three are cities, and each is tagged as such. I suspect that the lowzoom Mapnik tiles just happen to decide that rendering the outer two cities names would overlap the name of the middle one, which is Montreal, so drops it. If we condoned tagging for rendering, you could perhaps move the node that is used to label Montreal south slightly, so the captions *might* not overlap, but it's probably best not to worry about it. I'm wondering whether the Greater Montreal Area [1] is defined as a region, and if so whether that label would take priority at certain zoom levels? Ed [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Montreal_Area ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik rendering or tagging issue?
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Ed Loach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stefan asked: Is this a problem in mapnik or is it a problem with the OSM data? If the latter, how can I fix it? It looks like the data is OK. All three are cities, and each is tagged as such. I suspect that the lowzoom Mapnik tiles just happen to decide that rendering the outer two cities names would overlap the name of the middle one, which is Montreal, so drops it. Yep, it's a common problem. If someone can extend the mapnik stylesheet and osm2pgsql to do something more clever with place names, that would be cool. Zoom levels 4+5 come from VMAP0, hence the ascii-ness. Beyond that, increasing zoom levels increases the number of types of place names rendered (cities, towns etc) but there's no priority in placename rendering. See http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/rendering/mapnik/osm-template-fontset.xml#L5329 - it would be nice if there was a z-order for points (and an ORDER BY clause, of course) that reflected that we'd rather draw city names first, then towns if there were space etc. Even better, we'd probably want to order cities by population so that a big city next to a smaller one still gets its name rendered. Such z-order calculations are probably best done in osm2pgsql, which is where the z-ordering of road occurs (see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/export/osm2pgsql/output-pgsql.c#L88 ). Students will achieve extra credit for moving z-ordering into a run-time configuration file ala default.style :-) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering missing off the last part of some ways
I edited an area yesterday afternoon/evening which has been rendered overnight on the Mapnik layer. Great to see the quicker turnaround which I assume is using the daily diff? Anyway, I spotted two busts with what had been rendered. Both appear to be the last segment (section to the last node) missing. One on a railway and one on an unclassified road. The railway section actually affects three ways but two of them (one on a bridge) are two node ways and hence aren't showing up at all. Here are the two links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55637lon=-1.67496zoom=15layers=B0FT http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.51413lon=-1.58315zoom=17layers=B0FT Both have rendered fine with Osmarender. I'm guessing this is an issue with missing data in the diff. Perhaps missing node info, since the second link isn't showing some new nodes I added either. Cheers Andy -- Andy Robinson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering missing off the last part of some ways
On Sat, 2008-03-22 at 09:25 +, Andy Robinson wrote: I edited an area yesterday afternoon/evening which has been rendered overnight on the Mapnik layer. Great to see the quicker turnaround which I assume is using the daily diff? No, it was done with another full dump and import which was started around 8.30pm last night. This was a side effect of testing a new version of the planet dump code which adds the user display_name into the export. Anyway, I spotted two busts with what had been rendered. Both appear to be the last segment (section to the last node) missing. One on a railway and one on an unclassified road. The railway section actually affects three ways but two of them (one on a bridge) are two node ways and hence aren't showing up at all. Here are the two links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55637lon=-1.67496zoom=15layers=B0FT http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.51413lon=-1.58315zoom=17layers=B0FT Both have rendered fine with Osmarender. I'm guessing this is an issue with missing data in the diff. Perhaps missing node info, since the second link isn't showing some new nodes I added either. Had you finished all the edits before 8.30pm? Maybe the dump just missed some of your edits. I'll take a deeper look at the underlying data when I get a chance. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: rendering forest or wood
Karl Eichwalder wrote: I think the mapnik rendering of forests could be improved. ATM, landuse=forest is not distinguishable from recreation_ground. Even if forest are often used as places for recreation in Germany, rendering both areas the same way is not optimal. For outside activities you want where wood or forest is located. Thus I'd like to propose to render both landuse=forest and natural=wood the same way in a darkish green. That's also how osmarender deals with these areas. I agree. Anyway, I don't really see the distinction between the two, at least not in the country I'm living in (Slovenia). And this unclarity has resulted in some OSM Slovenian users marking certain areas as natural=wood, while some other mark the similar areas as landuse=forest (example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.411lon=15.481zoom=11layers=B0FT). Regards, Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: rendering forest or wood
Beautiful! Good work! I vote for. :-) 2008/2/23, Daniel Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think the mapnik rendering of forests could be improved. Thus I'd like to propose to render both landuse=forest and natural=wood the same way in a darkish green. That's also how osmarender deals with these areas. Why not use bitmap tiles for forest/wood rendering? I've just painted a small tile which I'm hereby releasing into public domain. (http://osm.planetschmidt.de/pub/forest_tile.png) Here's a mockup I made in Photoshop: http://osm.planetschmidt.de/pub/forest.png Greets, Daniel Schmidt -- Guilhem BONNEFILLE -=- #UIN: 15146515 JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik: rendering forest or wood
I think the mapnik rendering of forests could be improved. ATM, landuse=forest is not distinguishable from recreation_ground. Even if forest are often used as places for recreation in Germany, rendering both areas the same way is not optimal. For outside activities you want where wood or forest is located. Thus I'd like to propose to render both landuse=forest and natural=wood the same way in a darkish green. That's also how osmarender deals with these areas. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering problem (was: Cycle route improvements)
On Wednesday 06 February 2008, Chris Jones wrote: For mapnik see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapnik For sections of the planet see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Planet.osm#Extracts Thanks, it was also possible by just downloading an area with JOSM. Anyway, my Mapnik installation refuses to render things like parks, cemeteries, woods, landuse areas etc. i.e. no polygons show up, except for water which is rendered nicely like everything else on the map. Does anyone know what could be the problem? I have absolutely no idea what could be wrong, and I'm just using the osm-template.xml file from svn... Greetings Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering problem (was: Cycle route improvements)
On 6 Feb 2008, at 17:17, Ben Laenen wrote: On Wednesday 06 February 2008, Artem Pavlenko wrote: OK, good. Probably something wrong with your styles. Post your *.xml file and I'll have a look. It's the original one from svn, but if you want to have a look... I can't see anything wrong with it, but I'll try some older ones once. Ben, Are you using template ? You should have replaced all occurrences of %params% with real things Also, make sure you have postgis.input installed HTH Artem Greetings Benosm-template.xml.zip ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering problem (was: Cycle route improvements)
On Wednesday 06 February 2008, Artem Pavlenko wrote: Are you using template ? You should have replaced all occurrences of %params% with real things I don't have to do that manually, do I? I just enter the variables in set-mapnik-env, call customize-mapnik-map which replaces all %param% in osm-template.xml which is saved to osm.xml. The evidence that it's working is that all symbols like for pubs and stations are shown on the map for example. Also, make sure you have postgis.input installed I don't know what you mean with postgis.input exactly, but I've installed postgresql8.2-postgis and ran it on the database, just like is mentioned on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapnik Are there some alternative osm.xml files somewhere which I could test out? Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering problem (was: Cycle route improvements)
On 6 Feb 2008, at 19:29, Ben Laenen wrote: On Wednesday 06 February 2008, Artem Pavlenko wrote: Are you using template ? You should have replaced all occurrences of %params% with real things I don't have to do that manually, do I? I just enter the variables in set-mapnik-env, call customize-mapnik-map which replaces all %param % in osm-template.xml which is saved to osm.xml. The evidence that it's working is that all symbols like for pubs and stations are shown on the map for example. Also, make sure you have postgis.input installed I don't know what you mean with postgis.input exactly, but I've installed postgresql8.2-postgis and ran it on the database, just like is mentioned on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapnik Are there some alternative osm.xml files somewhere which I could test out? Ok, if you have pubs etc showing means you have mapnik (+postgis plug- in) installed. Could you compile Mapnik with DEBUG=y and see SQL statements being sent to postmaster ? Oh, one more thing, just an idea : try running vacuum analyze planet_osm_; Artem Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
On 29 Jan 2008, at 23:40, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 23:28 +, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 22:35 +, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup | will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet | dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on | the server to make the new tiles live. | | The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. | This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At | the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about | Wednesday next week. I've made the new tiles from mod_tile live on the main OSM tile server (on the default Mapnik layer). The initial impression I get is that the tiles are being served to more responsively and the on-access rendering seems to be working well too. Hopefully this will all continue smoothly. Fantastic. * The new colour reduction algorithm causes some odd colour changes in a few tiles. 99% are fine but a few have a background colour or road fill which is slightly wrong. I had a look and there are quite a few of wrong tile. I committed changes that seems to fix this in r625. Great work! Artem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering artifacts
I'm seeing faint gray lines on the main site slippy map Mapnik base layer, and I'm at a loss to explain their source. At first I thought they were state borders, but I'm seeing the lines running through the middle of states, too (here http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.001lon=-120.048zoom=9layers=B0FT it runs vertically through the middle of Oregon). Then I thought they were tile boundaries, but that's not consistent, either. Even weirder is on the California-Nevada border, there are two vertical lines right next to each other, not always parallel. (See here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.62lon=-120.053zoom=9layers=B0FT). I downloaded that area in JOSM but all I saw was a single state border way. It doesn't seem to have a source in the OSM data, so maybe it's something caused by the conversion to pgsql or by the renderer itself (maybe a projection issue)? I don't think it's related to the recent mod_tile changes, because as far as I know that only affects how the tiles are stored and served, not how they're rendered. (If I've said something stupid, please forgive me. I *think* I understand the process...) Any thoughts, anyone? Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering artifacts
On 30 Jan 2008, at 12:41, Karl Newman wrote: I'm seeing faint gray lines on the main site slippy map Mapnik base layer, and I'm at a loss to explain their source. At first I thought they were state borders, but I'm seeing the lines running through the middle of states, too (here http:// www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.001lon=-120.048zoom=9layers=B0FT it runs vertically through the middle of Oregon). Then I thought they were tile boundaries, but that's not consistent, either. Even weirder is on the California-Nevada border, there are two vertical lines right next to each other, not always parallel. (See here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/? lat=41.62lon=-120.053zoom=9layers=B0FT). I downloaded that area in JOSM but all I saw was a single state border way. It doesn't seem to have a source in the OSM data, so maybe it's something caused by the conversion to pgsql or by the renderer itself (maybe a projection issue)? I don't think it's related to the recent mod_tile changes, because as far as I know that only affects how the tiles are stored and served, not how they're rendered. (If I've said something stupid, please forgive me. I *think* I understand the process...) Any thoughts, anyone? railtracks ? Artem Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 23:28 +, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 22:35 +, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup | will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet | dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on | the server to make the new tiles live. | | The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. | This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At | the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about | Wednesday next week. I've made the new tiles from mod_tile live on the main OSM tile server (on the default Mapnik layer). The initial impression I get is that the tiles are being served to more responsively and the on-access rendering seems to be working well too. Hopefully this will all continue smoothly. There are a couple of issues that I've noticed so far. I don't think any of these are serious enough to force us to go back to the old rendering setup. They should all be resolved in due course. * The new colour reduction algorithm causes some odd colour changes in a few tiles. 99% are fine but a few have a background colour or road fill which is slightly wrong. * Some of the z16/z17 tiles from the old system have not been rendered yet. They should get rendered and appear shortly after you access them. The new system uses a 8x8 meta tile rendering approach so overall we actually have more tiles than the old system (40M vs 30M previously). * The 'Expires' HTTP header has been broken causing tiles not to be cached as well as they should be in your browser (or other proxy/cache). * The munin stats for Apache volume have broken, you can see the real throughput is still OK by looking at the eth0 stats. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
On Freitag 25 Januar 2008, Gervase Markham wrote: Jon Burgess wrote: There is a major update to the way tiles are rendered occurring at the moment, let me explain... snip Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the update, and your hard work. I look forward to seeing the shiny new map next Wednesday or so :-) A great thanks from Germany too !! -- Joerg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 22:35 +, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Jon Burgess wrote: | | Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup | | will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet | | dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on | | the server to make the new tiles live. | | | | The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. | | This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At | | the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about | | Wednesday next week. | | Now that you've done the slowest-to-render low zoom tiles, Why not just | bin the old DB and backlog and let the rest of the tiles render on demand? | | I might do this once all the z16 or z17 tiles are done but with only | z0-12 I fear I'll get lots of complaints about stuff suddenly | disappearing from the map. The zoom levels 15 - 17 are by far the most | numerous according to the histogram of tiles per zoom. Are you able to say how many times each high zoom tile has been viewed? I suspect that it most cases it will be 1 if they are rendered on demand, and 0 if they are rendered from a backlog. There will be tiles that have been viewed a lot - tiles in important cities or places with lots of OSM activity, for example, but I suspect a lot of the 8 million z17 tiles will never be looked again, at least not until their content has been changed. If we do get a backlog, then it needs to give priority to tiles that have been viewed more than once, so that on a second viewing, a tile will be rendered live, even if the system is a bit busy (but not a lot busy, as it were). If you do get complaints, you can always switch back. Out of interest, do you have rough stats on how long tiles at each zoom level take to render on average? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHmzviz+aYVHdncI0RAtMhAJ9uY+Nvw8NgRllh1VErN2wdAV+jiACgoulq CxZ2MbuLSGPJFK1qR+SfeJU= =knlt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
Anyone know why Mapnik still hasn't rendered the data I put here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.6134lon=-2.6175zoom=12layers=B0FT over a week ago? Osmarender has it fine. I've tried using the rerender command on informationfreeway. (Is that Osmarender only?) I've tried waiting until next Wednesday and then waiting a bit longer. I've tried going to the individual tile URL and appending /dirty; /status then saying it's awaiting rerender, and later it says it no longer is (so presumably it's been done) but yet, no change :-( Sorry if I'm being thick. What am I missing? Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 17:49 +, Thomas Wood wrote: I believe the mapnik tile server has been a little overloaded recently - queuing of new tiles was disabled for a time. Rerender on ifw is for osmarender only (and isn't really required much, now that changed-tiles is being run to pick up data changes) On Jan 25, 2008 5:36 PM, Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know why Mapnik still hasn't rendered the data I put here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.6134lon=-2.6175zoom=12layers=B0FT over a week ago? Osmarender has it fine. I've tried using the rerender command on informationfreeway. (Is that Osmarender only?) I've tried waiting until next Wednesday and then waiting a bit longer. I've tried going to the individual tile URL and appending /dirty; /status then saying it's awaiting rerender, and later it says it no longer is (so presumably it's been done) but yet, no change :-( Sorry if I'm being thick. What am I missing? There is a major update to the way tiles are rendered occurring at the moment, let me explain... As Thomas mentions the rendering on the tile server has been overloaded recently. I've been working on developing an improved version of the software rendering framework called mod_tile for a few months and I took the plunge this week to install and run it on tile. The old system used a Mysql database to store the tiles, the new one uses the filesystem. I am currently running the list of 30M tiles from the MySQL database through the new mod_tile rendering engine to build up the new tiles from scratch. Right now all the tiles you are seeing are coming from the MySQL DB. The tiles are still being rendered with the Mapnik renderer so the new map will look the same as the old one. Many major changes have been made to the other parts of the rendering setup to massively improve the overall rendering speed. Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on the server to make the new tiles live. The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about Wednesday next week. Given how well things are progressing with the rendering I don't want to attempt any hybrid schemes to mix the new and old tiles or transfer the old tiles from the database to the filesystem. The new rendering rate is about 5 times faster than the old setup and allow us to be able to keep the tiles more up to date in future. The weekly import of the planet dump data will still be a limitation for the foreseeable future, but you should see updates appearing on the map much sooner after the Wednesday each week. Hopefully you can all live with a few more days delay in the updates before you get a nice new set of tiles with faster updates in future. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 22:35 +, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup | will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet | dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on | the server to make the new tiles live. | | The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. | This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At | the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about | Wednesday next week. Now that you've done the slowest-to-render low zoom tiles, Why not just bin the old DB and backlog and let the rest of the tiles render on demand? I might do this once all the z16 or z17 tiles are done but with only z0-12 I fear I'll get lots of complaints about stuff suddenly disappearing from the map. The zoom levels 15 - 17 are by far the most numerous according to the histogram of tiles per zoom. ZoomNumber of tiles in database 0 1 1 4 2 16 3 64 4 256 5 1024 6 4096 7 16384 8 65539 9 262163 10 1039716 11 1507579 12 1010639 13 1495247 14 2333230 15 5110638 16 5017451 17 8192471 18 3793287 Total = 29849805 Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | Once this first pass of the rendering is complete the mod_tile setup | will have all the existing tiles fully rendered with the current planet | dump and current map style. At that point I will switch over the URLs on | the server to make the new tiles live. | | The new system has already rendered 5M tiles in just under 24 hours. | This covers all of zooms 0 - 12 and about halfway through zoom 13. At | the current rate all the old 30M tiles will be rendered by about | Wednesday next week. Now that you've done the slowest-to-render low zoom tiles, Why not just bin the old DB and backlog and let the rest of the tiles render on demand? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHmmRMz+aYVHdncI0RApeyAJ4izpTGTi2tn8u3X5vPZHfFRsSbVQCdGqC5 WcenOewOb/FpqChyFeULhBk= =/LLL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering update
I believe the mapnik tile server has been a little overloaded recently - queuing of new tiles was disabled for a time. Rerender on ifw is for osmarender only (and isn't really required much, now that changed-tiles is being run to pick up data changes) On Jan 25, 2008 5:36 PM, Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know why Mapnik still hasn't rendered the data I put here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.6134lon=-2.6175zoom=12layers=B0FT over a week ago? Osmarender has it fine. I've tried using the rerender command on informationfreeway. (Is that Osmarender only?) I've tried waiting until next Wednesday and then waiting a bit longer. I've tried going to the individual tile URL and appending /dirty; /status then saying it's awaiting rerender, and later it says it no longer is (so presumably it's been done) but yet, no change :-( Sorry if I'm being thick. What am I missing? Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
