Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again A bit of a late reply. In the wiki, Relation:route[1] suggests network of uk_ldp for the UK long distance path network, but Walking_Routes[2] suggests iwn/nwn/rwn/lwn for network types. It looks like the uk_ldp goes back over a year to October 2007, so there are probably a number of these already in existence. The contradiction between the two pages has also led to a relation I created based on the Walking_Routes page being amended to that on the Relation:Route one (which is understandable if people are already used to the Relation:Route definitions). I don’t know how to find out how many relations already exist tagged with network=uk_ldp - perhaps someone could find out? And perhaps someone could decide what to do about the wiki contradictions. Also on the Relation:route page the Cambridge citibus network is still mentioned in the network description, but the value in the network column has been removed (browsing the page history). Ed [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:14, Ed Loach wrote: In the wiki, Relation:route[1] suggests network of uk_ldp for the UK long distance path network, but Walking_Routes[2] suggests iwn/nwn/rwn/lwn for network types. It looks like the uk_ldp goes back over a year to October 2007, so there are probably a number of these already in existence. The contradiction between the two pages has also led to a relation I created based on the Walking_Routes page being amended to that on the Relation:Route one (which is understandable if people are already used to the Relation:Route definitions). I don’t know how to find out how many relations already exist tagged with network=uk_ldp - perhaps someone could find out? And perhaps someone could decide what to do about the wiki contradictions. Also on the Relation:route page the Cambridge citibus network is still mentioned in the network description, but the value in the network column has been removed (browsing the page history). If you follow the tagwatch links from Relation:route, you can get at the numbers. network GB Europe uk_ldp 21 21 lwn 1 191 rwn 4 354 nwn 0 22 iwn 0 0 Cheers Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Hi The whole question of relation:type=route is a bit confused both in the wiki and in practice - with the inevitable result that I am probably not the only one who has adopted my own compromise conventions! For me, the most important thing is that we extend, so far as is reasonably possible, the concept of using a relation for a route! This gets around the multiple problems associated with a walker tagging a way as a footway and a cyclist tagging the same way as a cycleway and a rider tagging it as a bridleway! Let's at least agree to use relations for routes and keep the use of tags as a means of describing which means of transport are either physically capable of using, or legally allowed to use, a particular way. No information is lost by adopting this principle - and it allows much more description of a way so that it can be rendered either on the general map or on specialist maps for walkers, cyclists, etc. The question of route network type is indeed just as confused, as Robert points out. Personally, I would deprecate uk_ldp (what's so special about the UK??) and stick to the internationalised convention of iwn/nwn/rwn/lwn. Using both systems is doubly confusing, as it is all too easy to think that the 'L' ins uk_ldp means 'local' (i.e. not long distance!) or the 'l' in lwn means 'long distance'! I would prefer to avoid, where possible, ending up with a tagging convention that was peculiar to the UK - although the nature of English public rights of way law - being internationally unique - does suggest the need for some specialised tagging. We already have the problem that the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/UK_public_rights_of_way suggests, for example, foot=yes for a 'UK' (should really be England and Wales) public footpath - and I have followed this - but shouldn't it really be foot=designated? With foot=yes left to describe what 'can' be done rather than what 'may' (legally) be done? The next issue is how to define iwn/nwn/rwn/lwn - although I suspect that a fairly pragmatic approach will emerge. A related issue is whether and when to add these routes to the listings on the dedicated wiki pages e.g. for UK walking and cycling routes. I am adding walking routes to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Distance_ Paths but there is an obvious issue as to what to include - I am tending to exclude 'lwn' and add the rest until someone shouts at me. So far as cycling routes are concerned on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_National_Cycle _Network, I have desisted from adding routes since having my wrist slapped for adding a cycling route that was not part of the national cycle network (which is a fair enough comment, given the name of the page even though it includes rcn's as well as ncn's). I can see the line has to be drawn somewhere! But is there / should there be a listing of other cycle routes somewhere? This is all a bit specialised - but it does become of increasing importance as mappers in well-mapped areas begin to move from mapping roads to mapping off-road ways. How do those of you more experienced than I think it best to carry this discussion forward? Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Robert Vollmert [mailto:rvollmert-li...@gmx.net] Sent: 20 February 2009 11:25 To: Ed Loach Cc: osm Openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:14, Ed Loach wrote: In the wiki, Relation:route[1] suggests network of uk_ldp for the UK long distance path network, but Walking_Routes[2] suggests iwn/nwn/rwn/lwn for network types. It looks like the uk_ldp goes back over a year to October 2007, so there are probably a number of these already in existence. The contradiction between the two pages has also led to a relation I created based on the Walking_Routes page being amended to that on the Relation:Route one (which is understandable if people are already used to the Relation:Route definitions). I don’t know how to find out how many relations already exist tagged with network=uk_ldp - perhaps someone could find out? And perhaps someone could decide what to do about the wiki contradictions. Also on the Relation:route page the Cambridge citibus network is still mentioned in the network description, but the value in the network column has been removed (browsing the page history). If you follow the tagwatch links from Relation:route, you can get at the numbers. network GB Europe uk_ldp 21 21 lwn 1 191 rwn 4 354 nwn 0 22 iwn 0 0 Cheers Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: A relation should quite happily hold all of the bits and pieces for the Pennine Bridleway, it wouldn't really be doing its intended job if it didn't. I've already done most of the Pennine Way as a relation. For the most part it was pretty easy, as most of the component ways were tagged with name=Pennine Way. The Pennine Bridleway seems to most be the same as the Pennine Way, except for a few bits where they run side-by-side. There also seems to be the Pennine Cycleway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennine_Cycleway), which I've never seen signposted. Looking forward to seeing a walking map that's as good as the Cycle Map... :-) Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Frankie Roberto wrote: There also seems to be the Pennine Cycleway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennine_Cycleway), which I've never seen signposted. It's Sustrans National Route 68, the whole of which (well, except for two alternative braids) is lovingly mapped on OSM, from Derby to Berwick-on-Tweed... because I cycled it last year. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Walking-Routes---wiki-needs-some-work--tp21540248p21565716.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
I don't think that the Pennine Bridleway is complete yet (they haven't decided where the northern part of the route will go). Where I have seen it signposted (from Derbyshire up towards Lancs) it seems to go in the same direction is the Pennine Way but runs on mostly separate bridleways. These don't tend to go over the tops of hills but round the side (as you'd expect, I suppose). It starts from much further south than the Pennine Way (it runs on roads parallel with the Limestone Way north of the Monsal Trail and I think uses a bit of that (one of the old railways, anyway). The National Trail website claims that there's a map here: http://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/penninebridleway/admin/sites.asp?PageId=30 but it's asleep at the moment (oops). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
-Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder- lists) Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) There's the following existing page for the UK: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Dista nce_Paths Gregory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] wrote: Sent: 19 January 2009 10:44 AM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists); talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder- lists) Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) There's the following existing page for the UK: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Dista nce_Paths Thanks Gregory, Have changed the link from the Wikipedia one to this one. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Andy Brilliant - you have done what I have been wanting to do for some time but - as a relative newbie - had not figured out how to get to started. I have been doing a lot of mapping of walking routes lately and have already created a lot of relations in my own area. I strongly recommend relations rather than tags - for reasons already expressed in talk and newbie discussion groups. Wish the cyclists would do the same! I have made some edits on your page as a starter for 10 - but feel that I should have probably put comments somewhere else. Could you advise me on protocol and procedure as I would be more than happy to contribute to this discussion. Thanks! Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [mailto:ajrli...@googlemail.com] Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
The UK-only page seems to have no text. Why don't we join the two pages into one and use Andy's new one, which does have some text on it and is more international? Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] Sent: 19 January 2009 10:44 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists); talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder- lists) Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) There's the following existing page for the UK: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Dista nce_Paths Gregory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Mike, The page is there, the link Gregory gave was simply broken in the email. I've added the correct link to the table in the page I created. In the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Distance _Paths page there is a need to add the national Trails list etc to the table at the bottom so that we have just one location to monitor progress. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Mike Harris [mailto:mik...@googlemail.com] Sent: 19 January 2009 1:20 PM To: 'Gregory Williams'; 'Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)'; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? The UK-only page seems to have no text. Why don't we join the two pages into one and use Andy's new one, which does have some text on it and is more international? Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Gregory Williams [mailto:gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk] Sent: 19 January 2009 10:44 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists); talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder- lists) Sent: 19 January 2009 10:26 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? I started a stub http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes based upon the Cycle Routes page. I hope this doesn't duplicate anything but I could not find a landing page on the wiki to cover long distance walking and hiking routes generally. Needs work to pull stuff together and the UK long distance footpath link is to Wikipedia and I guess we should produce a table(s) of our own to show progress on mapping each route. I suspect 2009 will see the emergence of proper OSM walking/hiking maps so its time we got our act together. Please pull the page apart and add new stuff. Ideally try to keep content and ideas in the same sort of format as the Cycle Route ones so that we have some synergy and we don't have to reinvent the wheel yet again ;-) There's the following existing page for the UK: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Long_Dista nce_Paths Gregory No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
If it would help to tie the Cleveland Way relation together I can offer a series of 300m-separated waypoints in OSGB format for the section between Helmsley (actually from the spur at the bottom of White Horse Bank) and Guisborough. No tracklog though - it is from an old GPS with no data cable. Also something similar for the bottom end of the Pennine Way (as far North as Littleborough). One question though: Is there a limit on the total number of ways in one relation and is it possible that the Pennine Bridleway (which is lots of higgledy-piggledy bits of bridleway joined together) might exceed it? Some more local (UK Derby/Notts) stuff I'll updated Other named paths and trails, although I guess that that will need to be split out to another page if it gets too large. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
If you make that OSGB file available I'm sure someone will convert to lat/lon and upload, same with any other bits that you have that are missing from elsewhere. A relation should quite happily hold all of the bits and pieces for the Pennine Bridleway, it wouldn't really be doing its intended job if it didn't. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Someoneelse Sent: 19 January 2009 3:28 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work? If it would help to tie the Cleveland Way relation together I can offer a series of 300m-separated waypoints in OSGB format for the section between Helmsley (actually from the spur at the bottom of White Horse Bank) and Guisborough. No tracklog though - it is from an old GPS with no data cable. Also something similar for the bottom end of the Pennine Way (as far North as Littleborough). One question though: Is there a limit on the total number of ways in one relation and is it possible that the Pennine Bridleway (which is lots of higgledy-piggledy bits of bridleway joined together) might exceed it? Some more local (UK Derby/Notts) stuff I'll updated Other named paths and trails, although I guess that that will need to be split out to another page if it gets too large. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking Routes - wiki needs some work?
Am 19.01.2009 14:17, Mike Harris: I have made some edits on your page as a starter for 10 - but feel that I should have probably put comments somewhere else. Could you advise me on protocol and procedure as I would be more than happy to contribute to this discussion. Don't hesitate, just do it! as long as you are not just deleting large parts. And let me just add a general hint not to use the wiki article page as a discussion page like. Tagging walking hiking Node Networks Do these exist anywhere? Yes, in Belgium and the Netherlands there are a number of these networks That's what the discussion page is for. Rather rewrite the sentence preferably with a link: Tagging walking hiking Node Networks Belgium and the Netherlands has some of these: See here and here Happy wiki-editing, Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Walking routes made up of OSM ways on Freemap
Hello everyone, Have added experimental, prototype functionality to Freemap to allow users to create walking routes by selecting multiple OSM ways. If you go to http://www.free-map.org.uk/freemap/index.php?lat=51.05lon=-0.72zoom=14 try clicking on footpaths with CTRL held down, and you'll be able to select a walking route comprising sections of those OSM ways. You can then specify the title and description and upload it to the server. Walking routes are defined in terms of the OSM ways making them up. A further feature is that a walking route will automatically contain any map annotations that are nearby. So if you click on a path and add an annotation indicating that there is a good view, or the path is hard to follow, that annotation will be automatically included in the walking route. You can also now download a walking route (map plus description) as a PDF file. The main remaining issue with this is the possibility of ways being deleted - if a deleted way is part of a walk route, then the walk route will become undefined. This will really need to be solved by using additional database tables storing the nodes making up a way, so that the walk route can be redefined using the replacement way to a deleted way. Any comments on the approach? Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
Ben Laenen wrote: What about routes that don't follow roads? I've been on walking routes that send you straight through a grass field, or through a lot of trees with no visible path, just marks on the trees. Greetings Ben highway = footway? Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
On Jun 27, 2008, at 16:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. I prefer this approach. My only concern is that when making relations and routes, often one needs to split a way. Is there any good UI for doing this for someone who doesn't know OSM? There is no reason as to why the overlay couldn't automatically split the way on it's own vector overlay and then when the route is confirmed that the split be transfered to OSM along with the relation information. An alternative would be to specify a part of a way by starting and end node (a subway, compare http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Segmented_Tag) . If the routes are to be stored in OSM as relations, this wouldn't be a such good idea, but assuming you're storing them externally and didn't want to write to the OSM database, it's an option. Cheers Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
Hello everyone, Richard's comments the other day have got me strongly interested in implementing tightly-bound (to OSM ways) walking routes in Freemap. There are a couple of UI ways in which this could be implemented: a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. b) More user friendly but harder to implement, more prone to errors, and possibly slow: User draws a walk route using the OpenLayers drawing tool. On the server side, the ways closest to each leg of the walking route are calculated. Walking route highlighted, and user then clicks done and adds further comments as before. Any preferences, e.g do people think a) is too cumbersome for the user? Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
Nick Whitelegg wrote: Richard's comments the other day have got me strongly interested in implementing tightly-bound (to OSM ways) walking routes in Freemap. There are a couple of UI ways in which this could be implemented: This would be a great thing to have. However it doesn't have to be limited to walking routes, bus routes could benefit aswell, since everyone knows the route their bus takes. a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. I prefer this approach. My only concern is that when making relations and routes, often one needs to split a way. Is there any good UI for doing this for someone who doesn't know OSM? Rory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. I prefer this approach. My only concern is that when making relations and routes, often one needs to split a way. Is there any good UI for doing this for someone who doesn't know OSM? There is no reason as to why the overlay couldn't automatically split the way on it's own vector overlay and then when the route is confirmed that the split be transfered to OSM along with the relation information. ie. 1) User selects long way at location x,y 2) User selects way joining previous long way 3) system would be able to split long way and know which side of split is required from previous x,y co-ords. Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
At 03:57 PM 6/27/2008, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Hello everyone, Richard's comments the other day have got me strongly interested in implementing tightly-bound (to OSM ways) walking routes in Freemap. There are a couple of UI ways in which this could be implemented: a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. b) More user friendly but harder to implement, more prone to errors, and possibly slow: User draws a walk route using the OpenLayers drawing tool. On the server side, the ways closest to each leg of the walking route are calculated. Walking route highlighted, and user then clicks done and adds further comments as before. Any preferences, e.g do people think a) is too cumbersome for the user? As a user, I'd certainly go for (a), much easier ... but would not that assume that every way always terminates at a junction and that the user's route segment is indeed mapped? Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Walking routes and OSM (again)
On Friday 27 June 2008, Nick Whitelegg wrote: a) Get the user to click each way in turn on the slippy map. Each way then gets highlighted (possible via OpenLayers Vector layer). When finished, user clicks Done and can add any further comments. This should be fairly easy to implement - and some of the code (detecting the closest way to a mouse click) has already been implemented, both client and server side. What about routes that don't follow roads? I've been on walking routes that send you straight through a grass field, or through a lot of trees with no visible path, just marks on the trees. Greetings Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
I have used the route tag which I think is approved. route=Lanchester Valley Way route=Battle of Neville's Cross I saw some signs, I guess they are walking routes. They may be interesting but I wouldn't say the best route to get to the end. How about route_quality= (very muddy, maintained path, paved, etc) or route_frequency= (hardly ever visited, summer, popular)? Also these routes shared the same path at one point. I also agree that they were poorly marked, however if you can see a map it may be much easier to link known sections up. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
On Jan 22, 2008, at 13:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Whitelegg wrote: TBH I would be fairly dubious about tagging any non-waymarked walks/cycle rides as routes, let alone ones of my own devising. This is interpretation which should be kept out of the largely factual OSM. The data might not fit into the OSM but its still useful. Many websites live from it, e.g. http://www.gps-tour.info/. IMO an easy way to maintain these routes would be to define special tags to the OSM GPS traces database (http://openstreetmap.org/traces). E.g. in this case the tag could be 'recommended_walking_tour'. The trace should contain only the tour and nothing else in this case. A routing application that is aware of these tags could notify the user about nearby recommended tours. But for that purpose, people can use gps-tour.info, right? OSM would be interesting by allowing to present recommended walks, etc. as a sequence of OSM ways. But this data probably would better go into a separate database. I'm sure there's an opportunity for a nice project here: A walks/ rides database that allows to construct such walks by selecting way segments. Perhaps you could also offer a program that approximates uploaded GPX tracks using existing ways, and offer the ability to upload missing ways (or refer to OSM for the last part). I've also been thinking TrailRunner (even better: a free alternative) should allow creating routes from OSM vector data. Cheers Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
Robert Vollmert wrote: But for that purpose, people can use gps-tour.info, right? OSM would be interesting by allowing to present recommended walks, etc. as a sequence of OSM ways. But this data probably would better go into a separate database. I'm sure there's an opportunity for a nice project here: A walks/ rides database that allows to construct such walks by selecting way segments. Perhaps you could also offer a program that approximates uploaded GPX tracks using existing ways, and offer the ability to upload missing ways (or refer to OSM for the last part). For a routing app its not difficult to fit GPS traces to existing ways. It needs to do this anyway with the current trace. If it has some traces that contain ways that people prefer it could do a better job in selecting a good route. IMO the GPS traces DB would be good source for this. gps-tour.info can't be used due to licensing and it contains few city routes. The effort for now would be to define a set of tags that should be used for this purpose (recommended_walk...). The author of the routing app would need to download these traces and use them to mark some segments as recommended. The data would never be saved in the OSM DB. Grungelborz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
On Jan 21, 2008 10:19 AM, Nick Whitelegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also walking routes? This would be good news. I started with walking (hiking) route around Nuremberg. What are the recommended relation tags for walking routes? Do you mean walking routes as in paths, or walking routes as in a specific route you follow for a day's walk? The former would be highway=footway, plus foot=yes if an officially recognised path - whilst the latter are not currently on OSM. I think it's the latter, the same as for cycling routes being the meta, rather than the physical (cycleway). I've thought about this before but I never followed it through. I really think that they cycling stuff works well, and it could easily be replicated into walking by using the idea of national/regional/local walking routes and refs/names, e.g. nfr = yes, nfr_name = Penine Way lfr = proposed, lfr_name = Wandle Trail, lfr_ref = W34 for national footway route, local footway route and so on. *I'm only proposing the concept, not the tag names* - I think whoever kicks this off should come up with something better than nfr (!), but I think it would be nice to work in a parallel fashion to the way we deal with cycle routes i.e. completely separating the route information from everything else, and having a internationally-applicable hierarchy. And as an aside to Jo, I'll probably put walking routes on my cycle map since I like walking too and, well, it's my map, so I get to chose what goes on it! Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
Andy Allan wrote: On Jan 21, 2008 10:19 AM, Nick Whitelegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also walking routes? This would be good news. I started with walking (hiking) route around Nuremberg. What are the recommended relation tags for walking routes? Do you mean walking routes as in paths, or walking routes as in a specific route you follow for a day's walk? The former would be highway=footway, plus foot=yes if an officially recognised path - whilst the latter are not currently on OSM. I think it's the latter, the same as for cycling routes being the meta, rather than the physical (cycleway). I've thought about this before but I never followed it through. I really think that they cycling stuff works well, and it could easily be replicated into walking by using the idea of national/regional/local walking routes and refs/names, e.g. nfr = yes, nfr_name = Penine Way lfr = proposed, lfr_name = Wandle Trail, lfr_ref = W34 for national footway route, local footway route and so on. *I'm only proposing the concept, not the tag names* - I think whoever kicks this off should come up with something better than nfr (!), but I think it would be nice to work in a parallel fashion to the way we deal with cycle routes i.e. completely separating the route information from everything else, and having a internationally-applicable hierarchy. And as an aside to Jo, I'll probably put walking routes on my cycle map since I like walking too and, well, it's my map, so I get to chose what goes on it! That's great news. In my comment I was only reflecting the current situation, not what you might or might not do :-) Glad to see I function as some sort of katalysator though. Keep up the good work, Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
I think it's the latter, the same as for cycling routes being the meta, rather than the physical (cycleway). I've thought about this before but I never followed it through. I really think that they cycling stuff works well, and it could easily be replicated into walking by using the idea of national/regional/local walking routes and refs/names, e.g. nfr = yes, nfr_name = Penine Way lfr = proposed, lfr_name = Wandle Trail, lfr_ref = W34 Talking of walking routes in a more general sense , i.e. not official long distance paths but a favourite route/circuit e.g. the Old Dungeon Ghyll-Pike o'Blisco-Crinkle Crags-Band-Old Dungeon Ghyll route in the Lake District (excellent last day of last year's mapping party - a rare normal summer day in the abnormal summer of 2007!) do people see a scope for these to go into OSM itself, or best kept as a separate database which Freemap currently does? Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
Nick Whitelegg wrote: Talking of walking routes in a more general sense , i.e. not official long distance paths but a favourite route/circuit e.g. the Old Dungeon Ghyll-Pike o'Blisco-Crinkle Crags-Band-Old Dungeon Ghyll route in the Lake District (excellent last day of last year's mapping party - a rare normal summer day in the abnormal summer of 2007!) do people see a scope for these to go into OSM itself, or best kept as a separate database which Freemap currently does? TBH I would be fairly dubious about tagging any non-waymarked walks/cycle rides as routes, let alone ones of my own devising. This is interpretation which should be kept out of the largely factual OSM. If we're going to have people's personal favourite walking routes, we might as well also have the whole of BeerInTheEvening on our pub nodes, and so on. At this point Fake Ed would probably pipe up with something about the mapping provider ownz0ring all your data if he were here. ;) cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
On Jan 21, 2008 12:33 PM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Whitelegg wrote: Talking of walking routes in a more general sense , i.e. not official long distance paths but a favourite route/circuit e.g. the Old Dungeon Ghyll-Pike o'Blisco-Crinkle Crags-Band-Old Dungeon Ghyll route in the Lake District (excellent last day of last year's mapping party - a rare normal summer day in the abnormal summer of 2007!) do people see a scope for these to go into OSM itself, or best kept as a separate database which Freemap currently does? TBH I would be fairly dubious about tagging any non-waymarked walks/cycle rides as routes, let alone ones of my own devising. This is interpretation which should be kept out of the largely factual OSM. I mentally divide things into objective and subjective, and stick to the objective stuff for now. So if the walking routes are signposted, that would be fine for me, but if they were just a route that I knew, then I'd leave it off. I don't know what our end-game is with subjective stuff (e.g. rating pubs), maybe in the future it'll end up in OSM or a sister project. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
Andy Allan wrote: Sent: 21 January 2008 10:34 AM To: Nick Whitelegg Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes? On Jan 21, 2008 10:19 AM, Nick Whitelegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also walking routes? This would be good news. I started with walking (hiking) route around Nuremberg. What are the recommended relation tags for walking routes? Do you mean walking routes as in paths, or walking routes as in a specific route you follow for a day's walk? The former would be highway=footway, plus foot=yes if an officially recognised path - whilst the latter are not currently on OSM. I think it's the latter, the same as for cycling routes being the meta, rather than the physical (cycleway). I've thought about this before but I never followed it through. I really think that they cycling stuff works well, and it could easily be replicated into walking by using the idea of national/regional/local walking routes and refs/names, e.g. nfr = yes, nfr_name = Penine Way lfr = proposed, lfr_name = Wandle Trail, lfr_ref = W34 for national footway route, local footway route and so on. *I'm only proposing the concept, not the tag names* - I think whoever kicks this off should come up with something better than nfr (!), but I think it would be nice to work in a parallel fashion to the way we deal with cycle routes i.e. completely separating the route information from everything else, and having a internationally-applicable hierarchy. nwr/rwr/lwr works for me (national/regional/local walking route) Some might also use (be using) long_distance_footpath/trail or something similar, but that's because that's the way we refer to long routes in the UK and I don't think we should use that as a standard. In many countries footpaths are numbered (but a trip to the local library is normally needed in the UK to get hold of them for public footpaths) so I can see that following a method similar to the cycle network should work well but might be a little more difficult to visualise in the UK and perhaps other places because of a lack of numbering on the ground. Footpath routes are far more prevalent than cycle routes so some method of differentiating them on a map needs to be found. Perhaps between paved and unpaved routes etc. And as an aside to Jo, I'll probably put walking routes on my cycle map since I like walking too and, well, it's my map, so I get to chose what goes on it! Would be great to see :-) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] walking routes?
In many countries footpaths are numbered (but a trip to the local library is normally needed in the UK to get hold of them for public footpaths) so I can see that following a method similar to the cycle network should work well but might be a little more difficult to visualise in the UK and perhaps other places because of a lack of numbering on the ground. Footpath routes are far more prevalent than cycle routes so some method of differentiating them on a map needs to be found. Perhaps between paved and unpaved routes etc. In the New Forest Freemap does this , using a custom tagging scheme newforest_pathtype=narrow|path|track|gravel|cycleway, and renders each. Might be an idea to try and come up with a tag which makes this universal, needs to be more general than surface=paved|unpaved to distinguish between the many different widths of paths. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] walking routes?
The same questions apply to cycle and walking routes, but they are rendered already on Andy's map. I'll see what happens when two/three routes use the same ways there. Also walking routes? This would be good news. I started with walking (hiking) route around Nuremberg. What are the recommended relation tags for walking routes? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
