Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
2010/3/15 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: ... I have no intention to deprecate Potlatch 1, but would like to keep it available in parallel. have you thought about deprecating the live-mode in PL1 though? I really think it is a pain and was happy when you wrote in another thread that it will not be available in PL2. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: have you thought about deprecating the live-mode in PL1 though? I really think it is a pain and was happy when you wrote in another thread that it will not be available in PL2. Indeed, you've mentioned one or two (million) times before you're no fan of it. :) To be honest, though, I think the combination of the little warning that pops up and the steer in the Potlatch help docs (and elsewhere) has almost entirely removed any problems with it. Certainly, I see many more problems caused by people gratuitously merging ways in other tools which don't visualise relations well, than I do from Potlatch's live mode. Given that there are a lot of experienced users who still prefer editing live I'm loth to gratuitously remove it for now. In situations like this, I would really like to see the OSM community work together on improving our abysmal documentation to help newbies, rather than expecting absolutely everything to be dumbed down through code. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, John Smith wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) What about Mapzen under IE? *ducks* Mapzen doesn't count - it is open source ;-) Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On 12 March 2010 18:27, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Mapzen doesn't count - it is open source ;-) So is potlatch, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people from complaining about it being non-free for some reason... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:45 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 12 March 2010 18:27, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Mapzen doesn't count - it is open source ;-) So is potlatch, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people from complaining about it being non-free for some reason... I think the issue with flash is not the software, but the runtime. I am setting up right now to try and compile mapzen, have created a git repo. http://gitorious.org/mapzen-port/mapzen-port/trees/master I am going to try and use this : ActionScript 2 to Flash (SWF) compiler http://www.mtasc.org/ And use the gnash runtime. Question is : can a user use openstreetmap without accepted any license agreements from adobe? Is it possible to contribute using only free software. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: On 12/03/2010 07:54, John Smith wrote: On 12 March 2010 17:50, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) What about Mapzen under IE? *ducks* Memo to self: really really don't respond to licensing-type arguments after n pints of Black Rat scrumpy. cheers Richard That's a feature; pilzner makes you forget previous licensing arguments, so you just have to comment on a new one. I think Java6 still isn't *officially* available on OSX 10.4, but apparently using 10.4 is like running IE6 these days. -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
I have started to port mapzen to haxe, all help appreciated. http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2010/03/start-of-port-of-mapzen-to-haxe.html mike On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:56 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 12 March 2010 18:52, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Question is : can a user use openstreetmap without accepted any license agreements from adobe? Is it possible to contribute using only free software. As someone pointed out the other day this is blown out of proportion since most people don't use hardware with open bios or open chip design or open operating systems. Ultimately most will use flash anyway since most people use it for video so as far as I can see until most video services shift to flash free with open codecs this will be the status quo. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi folks, Regarding Flash development with OpenSource tools: On Vie 12 Mar 2010, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I think the issue with flash is not the software, but the runtime. [...] I am going to try and use this : ActionScript 2 to Flash (SWF) compiler http://www.mtasc.org/ mtasc is great (especially in combination with swfmill ), a super fast ActionScript 1.0/2.0 compiler, and permits a workflow with Makefiles (and vim ;-) ). Sorry, but with the Adobe tools I turn into an aggressive Taliban over time, thousands of mouse clicks until you get what you want. The problem with mtasc is, that it is not under active development anymore, now the new baby's called haxe ( http://haxe.org/ ). Haxe is a JavaScript-like language, supports AS3 and compiles to Flash or PHP, to name a few. The 3D-Flash OpenSource community is using haxe a lot. I don't know the haxe approach regarding GUI or app widgets. And use the gnash runtime. I think it is a good idea to generate gnash-compatible Flash apps, for example to support whatever embedded system/ smartphone with a powerful OS. gnash seems not to be very active, but it is quite feature-complete. That Potlatch 2 is based on Adobe Flex is a pity in my opinion, but well. Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Richard Fairhurst: Personally? I don't give a shit about free software. Or respectability. cheers Richard OK. May I then conclude mine and your off-topic posts ended on this thread? So it's up for anyone else to post on-topic replies regarding this topic. Kind regards, Niklas -- signature.asc Description: Αυτό το σημείο του μηνύματος είναι ψηφιακά υπογεγραμμ ένο ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Frederik Ramm wrote: If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/JOSM-will-move-to-Java6-tp4714947p4715170.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: The world doesn't require Potlatch 2 wondrousness. The world would already sigh with relief if Potlatch could be made to not break relation ordering when a way is split ;-) Has the world lodged a trac ticket? I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: The world doesn't require Potlatch 2 wondrousness. The world would already sigh with relief if Potlatch could be made to not break relation ordering when a way is split ;-) Has the world lodged a trac ticket? I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) I hereby present figure 1: Drag and drop relation reordering in Potlatch 2. http://random.dev.openstreetmap.org/relation%20edit.png :-) Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Frederik Ramm wrote: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) Oh, I'd guessed that much. No-one outside .de actually _uses_ relation ordering. ;) Seriously, though - as ever - if someone can provide a helpful trac ticket with this is what it currently does, this is what it should do, here are the steps to reproduce then I can at least look into it. And Potlatch 2 does indeed have wondrous relation handling (courtesy of Andy) with ordering and everything. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 09:30, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Java6 has been around for more than three years now (and other OSM software, e.g. Osmosis, already depends on it) so if you are still using an older version it might be time to upgrade. (If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch that supplier.) Now JOSM is compiled with Java 6 in Java 5 compatibility mode and users like me run it with Java 6. Aside from the developers being able to use neat Java 6 features will the existing Java 6 users notice any speedup differences as a result of this? I.e. does java6-as-5 generate dumbed-down bytecode that java5 that might be replaced by fancier and faster java6-as-6 instructions? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
El día Thursday 11 March 2010 11:40:56, Frederik Ramm dijo: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. The world is trying to *preemptively* ban potlatch 2 :-P -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
grin :D Any clues or teasers as to what this might contain? - Original Message - From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:23:00 -0800 (PST) Frederik Ramm wrote: If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/JOSM-will-move-to-Java6-tp4714947p4715170.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- ___ Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com Powered by Outblaze ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Richard Fairhurst wrote: multiple snips ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) You can run JOSM using only libre and/or open source software. Not only JOSM, there's much more software that can be run on fully free systems. Regards, Niklas -- signature.asc Description: Αυτό το σημείο του μηνύματος είναι ψηφιακά υπογεγραμμ ένο ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
2010/3/11 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es: El día Thursday 11 March 2010 11:40:56, Frederik Ramm dijo: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. The world is trying to *preemptively* ban potlatch 2 :-P I'm actually using both JOSM and PL1 depending on my mood, so I'd like to see both projects progressing well... Regards, -- Łukasz [DeeJay1] Jernaś ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) You can run JOSM using only libre and/or open source software. Not only JOSM, there's much more software that can be run on fully free systems. Even worse, it has come to my attention that some even use OSM on non-free operating systems and on non-free processor designs! How can OSM ever be respectable if it tolerates this!!!eleven!!! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) Personally? I don't give a shit about free software. Or respectability. hm. OSM is composed of free software. It is built on free software. How would it be possible without it? I know many of the OSM people fee the same way as you do... But think about what you are saying for a minute. If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? how would it exist? It would not. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On 12 March 2010 17:50, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) What about Mapzen under IE? *ducks* ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
