Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 11:33 +0100, 80n wrote: > There's no tileserver yet, that's a priority, there's no gratification > if things are rendered. Is it possible to setup some sort of tiles@home-like system for fosm? That could be a way to reduce your load. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:11:29 +0100 Grant Slater wrote: > > FOSM.org is hosted on a virtual machine of hypercube provided for > XAPI. Without any explanation I was banned from the FOSM when I stated > this. > > Regards > Grant > OSM Sysadmin team. > Banned from the mailing list for OSM_Fork. If there was no explanation you may rationalise that there was cause and effect. They may simply be concomitant. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 25 April 2011 09:41, Mike Dupont wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir > wrote: >> >> >> fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or >> to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? >> > I think you can use toolserver from wikipedia or even the > hypercube.telascience.org for hosting and rendering tiles, wikipedia should > even prefer creative commons data over incomprensible new licensed data. > FOSM.org is hosted on a virtual machine of hypercube provided for XAPI. Without any explanation I was banned from the FOSM when I stated this. Regards Grant OSM Sysadmin team. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:49 AM, 4x4falcon wrote: > On 24/04/11 19:54, John Smith wrote: > >> Once upon a time it used to be almost a race to map out new areas from >> Nearmap coverage, now whole areas of coverage go untouched for months >> or longer... >> > > Even from bing there is not much activity. > > > What was once a source of pride in the community can now only be >> described as a 'tragedy of the commons' now that the death knell is >> being tolled on the OSM-F... >> >> I have restarted mapping in earnest, but uploading to fosm.org, I'd >> forgotten how enjoyable it was just to get on and map large areas that >> are blank and to make the map slightly more complete, knowing that I >> wasn't wasting my time to only have my edits reverted later. >> >> I've taken the opposite approach, I'm still adding to osm from nearmap, > gps and bing as those edits will go into fosm.org as fosm is doing > minutely updates from osm. > > When we are locked out completely and all my edits are removed from osm > they will still be in fosm without duplication and I will they start adding > to fosm then. > > This is a very sensible approach and one that I would expect most people to follow. That said, I do need people to use fosm and give me feedback if they encounter any issues. There's no tileserver yet, that's a priority, there's no gratification if things are rendered. After that there are all the window dressing bits on the fosm.org website, although I'm not intending to implement any user diaries, GPX uploads or other peripheral functionality at the moment. That will come later if there's sufficient demand. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
In the last few days people have posted numerous diary entries about being unaware about the up coming changes. I am only surprised about how poorly things have been communicated with mappers, the replies to the posts are typical responses that try to confuse the issue. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/cainmark/diary/13601 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/netman55/diary/13603 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mce/diary/13656 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Leon Kernan wrote: >> >> Neat - any links/info on what you are using for navigation ? >> >> > I've been developing my apps in Visual Basic 2010 and running on Windows 7 > in the car. I'm on Linux, but it spatialite should be fine on that > The routing is provided by the spatialite addon to sqlite. Basically i can > do a single sql query with a start and end node and it will return a last of > all ways required to get from a to b. > Spatialite also includes tools to get the basic OSM file into the sql > database in the appropriate geometry format. > I only have to do a bit of massaging after to get things like maxspeed and > route relations included. > Heres a link to the spatialite website: > http://www.gaia-gis.it/spatialite/ Thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
> > > Neat - any links/info on what you are using for navigation ? > > > I've been developing my apps in Visual Basic 2010 and running on Windows 7 in the car. The routing is provided by the spatialite addon to sqlite. Basically i can do a single sql query with a start and end node and it will return a last of all ways required to get from a to b. Spatialite also includes tools to get the basic OSM file into the sql database in the appropriate geometry format. I only have to do a bit of massaging after to get things like maxspeed and route relations included. Heres a link to the spatialite website: http://www.gaia-gis.it/spatialite/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Leon Kernan wrote: >> >> If you are running linux then it's easy. >> >> Download a planet file from where ever. >> >> Extract the au data using osmosis. >> >> Use the au data as you normally would. >> >> Just out of curiosity what are you using the data in. >> > > At the moment i dump OSM data into a sqlite database with the spatialite > addon. > I've got a computer installed in my car and the applications i've written > use the data to provide navigation and a few other features. Neat - any links/info on what you are using for navigation ? cheers > Setting all that up isn't worthwhile at the moment while someone else is > able to provide extracts already prepared. > Also a lot of bandwidth i don't have to get that first planet file. > I guess it is something to think about when i get locked out of osm however. > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
> > > If you are running linux then it's easy. > > Download a planet file from where ever. > > Extract the au data using osmosis. > > Use the au data as you normally would. > > Just out of curiosity what are you using the data in. > > > At the moment i dump OSM data into a sqlite database with the spatialite addon. I've got a computer installed in my car and the applications i've written use the data to provide navigation and a few other features. Setting all that up isn't worthwhile at the moment while someone else is able to provide extracts already prepared. Also a lot of bandwidth i don't have to get that first planet file. I guess it is something to think about when i get locked out of osm however. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:27 AM, John Smith > wrote: > > On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir > wrote: > >> As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open > >> mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey > >> and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. > > > > It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others > > think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, > > No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to > CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better > suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution > aspects. > I dont understand this, because the GFDL and CC are largely compatible and there is a dual license, which is not the case here. with the new CT you are leaving the realm of copyleft totally, it becomes contract law and not copyright law. As far as I can tell, the ODBL is not compatible , but I dont really understand it. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > > > fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or > to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? > > I think you can use toolserver from wikipedia or even the *hypercube*. telascience.org for hosting and rendering tiles, wikipedia should even prefer creative commons data over incomprensible new licensed data. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 25/04/11 16:07, Leon Kernan wrote: I've taken the opposite approach, I'm still adding to osm from nearmap, gps and bing as those edits will go into fosm.org as fosm is doing minutely updates from osm. When we are locked out completely and all my edits are removed from osm they will still be in fosm without duplication and I will they start adding to fosm then. Agreed, thats the same approach that i'm taking. Since i also use the Australian extracts from www.osmaustralia.org, i need to edit osm to make use of my updates. Hopefully soon someone will set up extracts from fosm, i wish i had the facilities to do it myself. If you are running linux then it's easy. Download a planet file from where ever. Extract the au data using osmosis. Use the au data as you normally would. Just out of curiosity what are you using the data in. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
>> > I've taken the opposite approach, I'm still adding to osm from nearmap, gps > and bing as those edits will go into fosm.org as fosm is doing minutely > updates from osm. > > When we are locked out completely and all my edits are removed from osm they > will still be in fosm without duplication and I will they start adding to > fosm then. > Agreed, thats the same approach that i'm taking. Since i also use the Australian extracts from www.osmaustralia.org, i need to edit osm to make use of my updates. Hopefully soon someone will set up extracts from fosm, i wish i had the facilities to do it myself. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 24/04/11 19:54, John Smith wrote: Once upon a time it used to be almost a race to map out new areas from Nearmap coverage, now whole areas of coverage go untouched for months or longer... Even from bing there is not much activity. What was once a source of pride in the community can now only be described as a 'tragedy of the commons' now that the death knell is being tolled on the OSM-F... I have restarted mapping in earnest, but uploading to fosm.org, I'd forgotten how enjoyable it was just to get on and map large areas that are blank and to make the map slightly more complete, knowing that I wasn't wasting my time to only have my edits reverted later. I've taken the opposite approach, I'm still adding to osm from nearmap, gps and bing as those edits will go into fosm.org as fosm is doing minutely updates from osm. When we are locked out completely and all my edits are removed from osm they will still be in fosm without duplication and I will they start adding to fosm then. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
Same thing in the UK with OS data, it becomes free but requires attribution and OSM-F turns round and says that's great and all, but we want it with no strings now. On 4/25/11, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:18:41 +1000 >> "Alex (Maxious) Sadleir" wrote: >> >>> Also, I hear that Kiwi OSM surveyors are having just as much trouble >>> convincing OSM-F that their government too has done the due diligence >>> on Creative Commons for geodata: >>> http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635#comment-222869 >> >> the comments are now error 403 > " Gavin Treadgold said, > April 11, 2011 @ 11:09 pm > > We’ve just got the Govt here in NZ to agree and started releasing lots > of data in CC-BY (through NZ GOAL), and now OSM is moving the > goalposts, making us look like fools with our cap in hand asking ‘Can > we please have some more?’" > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Sent from my mobile device ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:18:41 +1000 > "Alex (Maxious) Sadleir" wrote: > >> Also, I hear that Kiwi OSM surveyors are having just as much trouble >> convincing OSM-F that their government too has done the due diligence >> on Creative Commons for geodata: >> http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635#comment-222869 > > the comments are now error 403 " Gavin Treadgold said, April 11, 2011 @ 11:09 pm We’ve just got the Govt here in NZ to agree and started releasing lots of data in CC-BY (through NZ GOAL), and now OSM is moving the goalposts, making us look like fools with our cap in hand asking ‘Can we please have some more?’" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:18:41 +1000 "Alex (Maxious) Sadleir" wrote: > Also, I hear that Kiwi OSM surveyors are having just as much trouble > convincing OSM-F that their government too has done the due diligence > on Creative Commons for geodata: > http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635#comment-222869 the comments are now error 403 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 25 April 2011 08:26, Andrew Harvey wrote: > Once fosm gets a tile server (even a third party one) I'll probably > switch. In the meantime I thought osm edits were mirrored across to > fosm (though the more fosm gets edited, there will be merge edits, > which I'm not sure how fosm will handle.) That is my understanding as well, and for a while I kept uploading map data to OSM-F's DB, but I became increasingly unmotivated from doing this because of emails about immoral ways to get people to accept the new CTs regardless of if it taints OSM-F's data or not. > Agreed. http://planet.fosm.org/planet/ just seems to have diffs since > nov, but no sign of the planet.osm that one starts with before > applying these diffs. I've cc'd 80n on this email, he's involved with fosm.org, hopefully he can give a time line if nothing exists yet... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
> fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or > to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > Latest planet file http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet-latest.osm.bz2 Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:27 AM, John Smith wrote: >> On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: >>> As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open >>> mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey >>> and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. >> >> It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others >> think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, > > No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to > CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better > suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution > aspects. In my opinion, Except in the process the OSMF is trying to have a special PD grant of all data through the CTs. Which means a future OSM will only accept PD data, yet publish it as a SA license (contract?), (which aims to add additional restrictions upon copyright?, if geodata is free in the US, OSM should be free in the US). I don't like not accepting CC-BY or CC-BY-SA data for use in a project which is publishing attribution-sharealike data... On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 9:54 PM, John Smith wrote: > Once upon a time it used to be almost a race to map out new areas from > Nearmap coverage, now whole areas of coverage go untouched for months > or longer... > > What was once a source of pride in the community can now only be > described as a 'tragedy of the commons' now that the death knell is > being tolled on the OSM-F... > > I have restarted mapping in earnest, but uploading to fosm.org, I'd > forgotten how enjoyable it was just to get on and map large areas that > are blank and to make the map slightly more complete, knowing that I > wasn't wasting my time to only have my edits reverted later. Once fosm gets a tile server (even a third party one) I'll probably switch. In the meantime I thought osm edits were mirrored across to fosm (though the more fosm gets edited, there will be merge edits, which I'm not sure how fosm will handle.) On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or > to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? Agreed. http://planet.fosm.org/planet/ just seems to have diffs since nov, but no sign of the planet.osm that one starts with before applying these diffs. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
> No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to > CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better > suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution > aspects. Is this a deliberate troll, or just clueless ? On 24 April 2011 20:48, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:27 AM, John Smith wrote: >> On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: >>> As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open >>> mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey >>> and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. >> >> It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others >> think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, > > No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to > CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better > suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution > aspects. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 24 April 2011 22:48, Richard Weait wrote: > No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to > CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better > suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution > aspects. As those in the UK would say... 'Bollocks'... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:27 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: >> As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open >> mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey >> and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. > > It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others > think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution aspects. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open > mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey > and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, which would be fine if they started up their own project, but instead they're trying to hijack a share a like project with a substantial amount of data, and some are getting pretty desperate about it judging by their emails to some of the other mailing lists. > fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or > to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? I'm not sure, at this stage I've just been uploading my edits, but I should look into this as well so I can have my edits start rendering, although I'm mostly just interested in the aussie data. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 9:54 PM, John Smith wrote: > Once upon a time it used to be almost a race to map out new areas from > Nearmap coverage, now whole areas of coverage go untouched for months > or longer... > > What was once a source of pride in the community can now only be > described as a 'tragedy of the commons' now that the death knell is > being tolled on the OSM-F... > > I have restarted mapping in earnest, but uploading to fosm.org, I'd > forgotten how enjoyable it was just to get on and map large areas that > are blank and to make the map slightly more complete, knowing that I > wasn't wasting my time to only have my edits reverted later. I was going to mention that Mosman Council decided to use CC-BY 3.0 for their council geodata: http://data.mosman.nsw.gov.au/data Also, I hear that Kiwi OSM surveyors are having just as much trouble convincing OSM-F that their government too has done the due diligence on Creative Commons for geodata: http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635#comment-222869 As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
Once upon a time it used to be almost a race to map out new areas from Nearmap coverage, now whole areas of coverage go untouched for months or longer... What was once a source of pride in the community can now only be described as a 'tragedy of the commons' now that the death knell is being tolled on the OSM-F... I have restarted mapping in earnest, but uploading to fosm.org, I'd forgotten how enjoyable it was just to get on and map large areas that are blank and to make the map slightly more complete, knowing that I wasn't wasting my time to only have my edits reverted later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons On a more amusing note, I'm sure there is a spoof song in 'What a crying shame' http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/the-mavericks/what-a-crying-shame-14529.html Anyone know where to email Weird Al? :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
