Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2013-11-03 17:46, marc bessieres
  wrote :


  

  
  I would normally look this up in the
atlas der buurtwegen / des
 chemins
  vicinaux, but I can't find them for Brussels.
  
  So I've looked at urbis (http://geoloc.irisnet.be/)
  which I
  understand we can use, under extra it has an option to
  show
  the municipalities.  But that would only be the one for
  level
  8 and no information about the level 9 since they don't
  really
  exist anymore.
  
  I suggest you try to find the atlas der buurtwegen / des
  chemins vicinaux, or the Popp card for that information.
  
  
  PS: The URLs in your e-mail missed the "1" at the end, but
  it's in
  the subject.
  
  Kurt

  
  

Thank you Kurt for the pointer, I've
  looked for how to get this atlas and it seems that

one has to go to the "commune", so it
  would take some time before I can go.

Hopefully someone else go do it in
  between.
  

Sorry for the typo in the URL, I'll try
  to be more cautious in my copy/paste in the future.

  

I think I will find.  But I'm somewhat busy right now

Cheers, 


  

  André.

  


  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] covered or tunnel

[marc bessieres]

2013/11/3 Kurt Roeckx 

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:36:53PM +0100, marc bessieres wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > With Keep Right, there is the following error:
> > http://keepright.at/report_map.php?schema=72&error=25113833
> >
> > The error text is:
> > This node is a junction of ways on different layers:
> > #38962740
> > (-1),#116844652 (0)
> >
> > It is because the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740has
> > the tag tunnel=yes
>
> As far as I know tunnel=yes doesn't imply layer=-1, which
> keepright seems to be doing.  I think keepright is wrong to assume
> that.  But then Key:layer says that for bridges and tunnels that
> are at level 0 you should explicitly put the layer.
>

I suppose keepright uses both pieces of information. So I could put the
layer=0.


> > When I look at the wiki for the tunnel definition
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel
> >
> > And the one of covered
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered
> >
> > I presume that tunnel shall be replaced by covered as this way is a
> > "galerie" at the same ground level as the 2 streets it connects to.
>
> There is also tunnel=building_passage, which might be more clear
> then just yes.  It's also very explicit in saying that it should
> have the same layer as the buildings (none/0).
>

But I think this is better, I missed it when I read the wiki.
So I would go mapping the "galeries" of Bxl I know like that.
Would that be ok?


> As far as I understand it, covered means that there aren't 2 walls
> on each side and so that it's open, which as far as I know isn't
> the case.
>
> Ok, I understand the difference now. I think there is such a path on way
to the Mont des Arts
from the Central station.

Thank you Kurt,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[marc bessieres]

I would normally look this up in the atlas der buurtwegen / des

> chemins vicinaux, but I can't find them for Brussels.
>
> So I've looked at urbis (http://geoloc.irisnet.be/) which I
> understand we can use, under extra it has an option to show
> the municipalities.  But that would only be the one for level
> 8 and no information about the level 9 since they don't really
> exist anymore.
>
> I suggest you try to find the atlas der buurtwegen / des
> chemins vicinaux, or the Popp card for that information.
>
>
> PS: The URLs in your e-mail missed the "1" at the end, but it's in
> the subject.
>
> Kurt
>

Thank you Kurt for the pointer, I've looked for how to get this atlas and
it seems that
one has to go to the "commune", so it would take some time before I can go.
Hopefully someone else go do it in between.

Sorry for the typo in the URL, I'll try to be more cautious in my
copy/paste in the future.

Thank you,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] covered or tunnel

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:36:53PM +0100, marc bessieres wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> With Keep Right, there is the following error:
> http://keepright.at/report_map.php?schema=72&error=25113833
> 
> The error text is:
> This node is a junction of ways on different layers:
> #38962740
> (-1),#116844652 (0)
> 
> It is because the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740 has
> the tag tunnel=yes

As far as I know tunnel=yes doesn't imply layer=-1, which
keepright seems to be doing.  I think keepright is wrong to assume
that.  But then Key:layer says that for bridges and tunnels that
are at level 0 you should explicitly put the layer.

> When I look at the wiki for the tunnel definition
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel
> 
> And the one of covered
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered
> 
> I presume that tunnel shall be replaced by covered as this way is a
> "galerie" at the same ground level as the 2 streets it connects to.

There is also tunnel=building_passage, which might be more clear
then just yes.  It's also very explicit in saying that it should
have the same layer as the buildings (none/0).

As far as I understand it, covered means that there aren't 2 walls
on each side and so that it's open, which as far as I know isn't
the case.


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:04:59PM +0100, marc bessieres wrote:
> >
> > * Ville/Stad* de Bruxelles is in fact a *Commune/Gemeente* made of 4
> > anciennes communes/deelgemeenten Brussels, La(e)ken, Neder-Over-Heembeek
> > and Haren.
> > What you see incomplete is the first one, but the other ones are
> > incomplete too.
> > The boundaries between them are missing. They must be added with the right
> > name and the four boundaries must be closed over them. My only problem is
> > finding the missing pieces if I do that, but I know where to look for them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >   André.
> >
> Thank you André for your explanations, I saw the administrative level
> difference, but I didn't know how to interpret them. Now I do :)
> If you could find the missing boundaries it'd be perfect! Or tell us where
> to look for them, may be me or someone else in the community can help there.

I would normally look this up in the atlas der buurtwegen / des
chemins vicinaux, but I can't find them for Brussels.

So I've looked at urbis (http://geoloc.irisnet.be/) which I
understand we can use, under extra it has an option to show
the municipalities.  But that would only be the one for level
8 and no information about the level 9 since they don't really
exist anymore.

I suggest you try to find the atlas der buurtwegen / des
chemins vicinaux, or the Popp card for that information.


PS: The URLs in your e-mail missed the "1" at the end, but it's in
the subject.

Kurt


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[OSM-talk-be] covered or tunnel

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

With Keep Right, there is the following error:
http://keepright.at/report_map.php?schema=72&error=25113833

The error text is:
This node is a junction of ways on different layers:
#38962740
(-1),#116844652 (0)

It is because the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740 has
the tag tunnel=yes

When I look at the wiki for the tunnel definition
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel

And the one of covered
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered

I presume that tunnel shall be replaced by covered as this way is a
"galerie" at the same ground level as the 2 streets it connects to.

So I looked at other "galeries" I know in Bxl to see how they're tagged.
I see that "galerie louise" has also tunnel=yes
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/31001460

And "galerie de la reine" doesn't have anything.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/87501645

What should I do?
I would believe put covered everywhere, and replace tunnel when it is used.
Or I can do it only for the error of Keep Right?
Or anything else you would suggest.

Cheers,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[marc bessieres]

2013/11/3 André Pirard 

>  On 2013-11-03 01:00, André Pirard wrote :
>
> On 2013-11-02 23:04, marc bessieres wrote :
>
>  Hello,
>
>  After starting updating the wiki on quality assurance tools. I spent some
> time correcting the issues in Brussels.
>  Now I start finding issues I don't have enough knowledge to fix alone.
>  I assume it is better to send a mail per issue, so I start here with:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402
>
>  There is a FIXME in it before its boundaries are not complete.
>
>  For me it looks a lot like:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/58274
>
>  which has a complete boundary.
>  But one is Bruxelles, and the other is Ville de Bruxelles.
>
>  I must admit I don't understand the differences.
>
>  My idea would be to merge the extra data of  the former into the latter.
> And remove the former.
>  But as they are each in the relation of the other I may miss something
> or someone would have done the merge already, so here I am asking for a
> piece of advice.
>
>  What should be done with:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402
>
>  Thank you in advance,
>  Marc
>
>
> You should certainly not delete anything before you have fully understood
> the very complicated administrative structures of our country ;-)  You may
> notice that we have two Belgiums.
> Notice that those boundaries are administrative level 8 and level 9,
> certainly not the same thing and that doing as you say is destroying.
> I have mapped thousands of kilometers of boundaries in Belgium and I might
> have a closer look at that if you want, but not just right now.  Boundaries
> are complicated things.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
>
> * Ville/Stad* de Bruxelles is in fact a *Commune/Gemeente* made of 4
> anciennes communes/deelgemeenten Brussels, La(e)ken, Neder-Over-Heembeek
> and Haren.
> What you see incomplete is the first one, but the other ones are
> incomplete too.
> The boundaries between them are missing. They must be added with the right
> name and the four boundaries must be closed over them. My only problem is
> finding the missing pieces if I do that, but I know where to look for them.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
Thank you André for your explanations, I saw the administrative level
difference, but I didn't know how to interpret them. Now I do :)
If you could find the missing boundaries it'd be perfect! Or tell us where
to look for them, may be me or someone else in the community can help there.

Cheers,
Marc
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