Re: [OSM-talk-be] wegenregister now open data

[joost schouppe]

Sander,

Good point: a missing road in OSM can be a mistake in OSM - or a mistake in
Wegenregister!

I'm not sure what the best way would be to deal with a clear mistake. I
think there are going to be some cases where we can tag a thing with
something indicating that Wegenregister is not more correct then we are (if
only to avoid mistakes by remote mappers). That would allow for automatic
input for AIV (former Agiv). But sometimes we will have to contact people.
As the update process will be largely community responsibility, it's
probably going to be a case of contacting the local administration. And
when integration is complete, I would suppose it should turn into a
GRB-melding. The only thing is that mere citizens aren't really invited to
do that. Something to talk to AIV about, I would suppose.

We could also build some kind of tool where you can register your progress
in comparing OSM to Wegenregister, and create a list of "definitely wrong
in Wegenregister" segments for AIV or local administrations to download.

Then when it comes to Wegenregister being slightly out of date: that isn't
really a mistake, it's more like growing pains. I believe in the future,
Wegenregister will contain both "the last measured reality" (GRB) and
"planned future situations" (fed from CRAB). In theory, when an as-built
plan is delivered, it should be updated immediately. In other cases, it
might take until the next GRB update (once or twice a year) until the
"future" situation is tagged as "current, measured". So even in the future,
there will always be some lag. But for the time being, I think it can
easily take a year for changes in the terrain to find their way into the
Wegenregister. So there's little point reporting these situations.

2016-07-01 20:15 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere :

>
> 2016-07-01 18:53 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :
>
>> ...
>> It should be clear that any competition between Wegenregister and OSM is
>> a bit absurd.
>>
> ...
>>
>
> In contrary, the OSM community has been formed because it was so hard to
> access free geographical data. The fact that governments are now opening up
> data means that we are doing very well in our quest. Thanks to the work of
> every single contributor.
>
> That said, do watch out when comparing both datasets. One of the first
> differences I found shows a track in the wegenregister that definately
> doesn't exist:
> https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/joostschouppe/...#17.72/50.94482/3.07103
> 
> I have seen that track/path drawn on other topographical maps, and
> explicitly searched for it, but there's nothing to be found there  apart
> from a ditch (which certainly isn't suited for walking in). If there's a
> place to report those things, please tell me.
>
> There are also some obvious places where the wegenregister is a bit
> outdated. If there's a place to report these things, please tell me ;)
>
> But all in all, it's a great data source to have available (when everyone
> is a bit sensible on comparing the data). So thanks for everyone who helped
> making this available.
>
> Regards,
> Sander
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>


-- 
Joost @
Openstreetmap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] wegenregister now open data

[Sander Deryckere]

2016-07-01 18:53 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :

> ...
> It should be clear that any competition between Wegenregister and OSM is a
> bit absurd.
>
...
>

In contrary, the OSM community has been formed because it was so hard to
access free geographical data. The fact that governments are now opening up
data means that we are doing very well in our quest. Thanks to the work of
every single contributor.

That said, do watch out when comparing both datasets. One of the first
differences I found shows a track in the wegenregister that definately
doesn't exist:
https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/joostschouppe/...#17.72/50.94482/3.07103

I have seen that track/path drawn on other topographical maps, and
explicitly searched for it, but there's nothing to be found there  apart
from a ditch (which certainly isn't suited for walking in). If there's a
place to report those things, please tell me.

There are also some obvious places where the wegenregister is a bit
outdated. If there's a place to report these things, please tell me ;)

But all in all, it's a great data source to have available (when everyone
is a bit sensible on comparing the data). So thanks for everyone who helped
making this available.

Regards,
Sander
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] wegenregister now open data

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 6:53 PM, joost schouppe  wrote:
> Even in the larger parks of Antwerp, their network is much more complete.

Indeed, I never really checked that all the paths in the park were
mapped or not. I assumed it was OK. The ones in Brand (the diagonals
between the major footpaths) are clearly missing.
But, there are a few paths/roads that are no longer accessible as
well. The two red lines above the main alley in Vogelzang no longer
exist (or are not really used and have been overgrown with plants).

I just added a few that I know for sure exist. I'll have to check the
ones in Brand to make sure they all exist, most of them do.

thanks for this valuable source.

regards

m

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] wegenregister now open data

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

As you might already be aware off, the Wegenregister is now open data [1].
Basically, it is what you get when you mash NGI data together with GRB for
geometry and CRAB for streetnames. Strangely enough, that means that the
federal NGI data is now open if it is in Flanders (or Brussels).

Even though it is very much still a work in progress, the data quality
looks rather good. As is tradition, I made a simple Mapbox map [2] where
you can visually compare OSM and Wegenregister. I still haven't found a way
to make OSM roads appear at low zoom levels, so zoom on in for a realistic
comparison. Blue OSM on red Wegenregister, so clear red means we're missing
something, clear blue means Wegenregister is missing something. Yellow
extra lines mean these are planned roads.
Special thanks to Mikel at Mapbox, as I would normally not have been able
to pull this of with my free account.

Here's some things where it could be useful for us:

- "slow roads": these are much more complete in the NGI data than in OSM.
However, as these change all the time, it is probably best only to use them
combined with local knowledge, aerial imagery and/or gps tracks (especially
the Strava layers are becoming rather useful, available too for the
JOSM-illiterate here [3]). I was surprised how many paths were still
missing in my own neighbourhood. Even in the larger parks of Antwerp, their
network is much more complete.
- planned roads: the idea is that roads will be in Wegenregister even
before they exist. A lot of those are missing in OSM.
- private roads: the NGI seem to have gone where we can't survey
- improving geometry

It is probably not the best place to get your streetnames from, as the flow
is from CRAB to GRB to Wegenregister, where each of these steps still
involves manual labour. In the case that was on Radio 2 recently [4],
corrections were made in CRAB as early as January 2015, but were not
reflected in GRB roads as late as December 2015. So get your CRAB road
segments for that, for example through the Lara application.

The first thing to do is of course surveying. To make things easier, I am
planning to make a dataset of Wegenregister roads which have a very high
probability of being missing in OSM. That dataset should then be small
enough to load in your Osmand or JOSM without any splitting necessary.

I actually have the general technique to do that already available at work,
so this shouldn't be a real issue (though it is made in FME, so we would
need to re-build the model in Postgres to build something more permanent).
In fact, I'll be doing an analysis for my employer, the city of Antwerp to
see where OSM can be used to improve Wegenregister. This, to me, is a clear
indication of government in Flanders finally waking up to OSM as a
datasource -though most people still cannot help but giggle when talking
about it :)
In fact, it looks like AGIV is interested in talking with us about ways in
which we can work together. Contact me if you want to be involved.

It should be clear that any competition between Wegenregister and OSM is a
bit absurd. Wegenregister has no ambition of being a routable dataset. It
is merely the minimum data that the government should know about roads: who
operates them, what's their surfacing, what kind of road is it. I do
believe the idea is to make it easy to link other data to this dataset,
with road segments having kind-of-stable unique IDs.

That means that a direct "quality" comparison between OSM and Wegenregister
really doesn't make much sense. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done. In
fact, as some of you might remember, there is a thesis on this subject. In
the course of their investigation, they also did a little vandalism, as
escada discovered [5]. It will not surprise you that many of us have had
serious issues with this research. As it was mentioned in several
presentations at the latest AIV Trefdag (where the entire government
related GIS world comes together), we can't really ignore it. Because of
that, I have asked for the thesis to be made public, so we can at least
read it and comment on it. And all relevant parties have accepted that, so
that's good news. You can now download the thesis [6].

Is a response in order? I think it probably is. I already wrote a comment
before (in private), Glenn had some pointed remarks too. I don't know if we
should respond with just an analysis of what they did and why it's wrong.
If you think that's useful, let's start a Hackpad!
I would like to respond with research of our own. Basically, looking at OSM
as it was now and year by year earlier, how have we evolved in terms of
network completeness.

Well that's a wall of text! Sorry about that.

1:
https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=1429&title=Wegenregister_03_06_2016

2:
https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/joostschouppe/cipy8xm3a006bdnncjuo4jc5g.html?title=true&access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoiam9vc3RzY2hvdXBwZSIsImEiOiJjaWh2djF1c2owMmJrdDNtMWV2c2Rld3QwIn0.9zXJJWZ4rOcspyFIdEC3Rw#15.86422096540

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Gerard Vanderveken]

Hi,

I tested a bit the thing, but found it not so easy to start with it. The 
setup process is very sumier described and some parts are ommitted (JOSM 
remote control).
A more step by step guide of the import itself as case examples and 
explanation of the buttons is needed.
To test something, it should be clear what you can do with it and what 
it is supposed to do in response to user actions taken.


The orange buttons are overdimensioned and take to much space, which 
limits the working view.

A legend should be present as popup to see the meaning of colours.
Popup of the address seems a weird format to me by using a slash to 
separate street and number. A slash should only be used to separate 
housnumber (+ letter) with letterbox (appartment) number
The address popup shows in the middle of the structure, which means it 
does not show when that building is partially outside the working area. 
Alternative is popup at cursor position.  (Does not to follow the cursor.)


For recent alterations of streets or houses it's of no use (not the 
tools fault).


Further more, I think OSM should not be cluttered with info on GRB/Crab.
But the GRB/CRAB tool should store and display itself some flags as eg 
verified discrepancy, do not import, obsolete, not as build, etc as 
intermediate between OSM and the raw data of Flanders.


I don't have time to test very much more.

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

At best, it's another data source to be combined with survey, aerial 
photography, Mapillary. But it will be better if it doesn't frustrate 
the user for having bugs in it. Gerard expressed in interest in 
addresses and thus I thought he might be interested to know that new 
data source will become available soon(ish). Faster if more of us can 
pitch in with the testing.


Cheers,

Jo

2016-07-01 16:30 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis >:


I totally agree with you on that. I'm one of Glenn's beta testers and
I have noticed that depending on the town, the data given by GRB/Crab
can be good or very bad/outdated.
Also the data is rather limited in the types of buildings that it
recognizes, which is a problem for me.
Feel free to take a look at [1] to see stuff that is obviously wrong
in GRB, even from aerial imagery. I gave up on adding more screenshots
recently, but it should give you an idea of the data quality you can
expect :-)


m.


[1] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/AGIV-Problems/

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Gerard Vanderveken mailto:g...@ghia.eu>> wrote:
> Congrats!!!
> ( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)
>
> To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium,
you should
> always start from the map and during survey check what is
missing and
> otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still
present and
> correct.
> Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things
already done.
> Seems a waste of time and effort to me.
>
> As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!
>
> For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same
problems with
> these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of
satelite photo's.
> Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or
demolished.
> Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with
the real
> situation.
> eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20
houses down at
> the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
> IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded
by a survey
> at place, to verify current status.
> I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real
force of the
> open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such
following
> much closer the reality, then the other tools.
>
> Regards,
> Gerard
>
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would
mention
> what they would map without looking at the map :-)
>
> I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than
20.000 by
> hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via
CRAB at
> the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> buildings).
> That's why I turned to other stuff.
>
> I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I
don't
> separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> rail, ditch,...)
> I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
>
> I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken mailto:g...@ghia.eu>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already
thoroughly mapped
> (street cabinets, 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ? -- fietsparking

[Marc Gemis]

 > that
>> > > routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct
>> > > paths.
>> > If
>> > > not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
>> > > It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the
>> > > map.
>> > >
>> > > So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
>> > > (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a
>> > (tourist)
>> > > route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle
>> > route/network)
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Gerard.
>> > >
>> > > Marc Gemis wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
>> > >> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
>> > >> try out
>> > >> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
>> > >> have to do it with a link
>> > >>
>> > >> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
>> > >> investigate further ?
>> > >>
>> > >> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
>> > >>
>> > >> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
>> > >> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
>> > >> a map when you click it
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>  Nederlands 
>> > >>
>> > >> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
>> > >> foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
>> > >> (beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
>> > >> uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's
>> > >> toe
>> > >> te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen
>> > >>
>> > >> Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
>> > >> ? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
>> > >> kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de
>> > >> foto
>> > >> staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> [1]
>> > >>
>> >
>> > https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
>> > >> [2] gallery:
>> > >> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g
>> > >>
>> > >> ___
>> > >> Talk-be mailing list
>> > >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Talk-be mailing list
>> > > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-be mailing list
>> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>> >
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/attachments/20160701/0f3e2b4a/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 15:49:37 +0200
>> From: Marc Gemis 
>> To: Jo Hannes , OpenStreetMap Belgium
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Jo  wrote:
>> > What about the buttons on the traffic lights? And in how much detail to
>> > map
>> > those traffic lights?
>>
>> O, nice one !
>> According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing you could
>> use "button_operated=yes"
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> End of Talk-be Digest, Vol 103, Issue 2
>> ***
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Glenn Plas]

On 01-07-16 16:30, Marc Gemis wrote:
> I totally agree with you on that. I'm one of Glenn's beta testers and
> I have noticed that depending on the town, the data given by GRB/Crab
> can be good or very bad/outdated.
> Also the data is rather limited in the types of buildings that it
> recognizes, which is a problem for me.

That is why you need humans to import it.   And that is why I want a
feedback system which I yet have to make.  We should mark bad source
data in OSM with a key/value combination.

And we need to mark bad GRB data as well and make this available to the
public.  I'll not be entering a case is LARA for every error I find.

We need to think about the next mapper as well, so if someone sees a
structure doesn't match GRB , I want to prevent him from (bring to
attention) from creating an error, rather that recognise OSM has better
data.  I see this a lot: structures with wrong dimension.

But that is exactly why we don't blindly import stuff.

Glenn



___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Jo]

At best, it's another data source to be combined with survey, aerial
photography, Mapillary. But it will be better if it doesn't frustrate the
user for having bugs in it. Gerard expressed in interest in addresses and
thus I thought he might be interested to know that new data source will
become available soon(ish). Faster if more of us can pitch in with the
testing.

Cheers,

Jo

2016-07-01 16:30 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> I totally agree with you on that. I'm one of Glenn's beta testers and
> I have noticed that depending on the town, the data given by GRB/Crab
> can be good or very bad/outdated.
> Also the data is rather limited in the types of buildings that it
> recognizes, which is a problem for me.
> Feel free to take a look at [1] to see stuff that is obviously wrong
> in GRB, even from aerial imagery. I gave up on adding more screenshots
> recently, but it should give you an idea of the data quality you can
> expect :-)
>
>
> m.
>
>
> [1] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/AGIV-Problems/
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> > Congrats!!!
> > ( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)
> >
> > To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium, you should
> > always start from the map and during survey check what is missing and
> > otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still present and
> > correct.
> > Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things already done.
> > Seems a waste of time and effort to me.
> >
> > As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!
> >
> > For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same problems
> with
> > these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of satelite
> photo's.
> > Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or demolished.
> > Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with the real
> > situation.
> > eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20 houses down at
> > the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
> > IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded by a
> survey
> > at place, to verify current status.
> > I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real force of
> the
> > open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such following
> > much closer the reality, then the other tools.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gerard
> >
> >
> > Marc Gemis wrote:
> >
> > I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> > what they would map without looking at the map :-)
> >
> > I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> > hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> > the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> > buildings).
> > That's why I turned to other stuff.
> >
> > I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> > separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> > rail, ditch,...)
> > I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
> >
> > I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
> >
> > m.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly
> mapped
> > (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> > Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> > buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> > IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> > should get more priority in mapping.
> > Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> > counts!
> >
> > When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> > bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as
> it
> > is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> > connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so
> that
> > routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths.
> If
> > not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> > It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
> >
> > So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> > (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a
> (tourist)
> > route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle
> route/network)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gerard.
> >
> > Marc Gemis wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> > other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> > try out
> > I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> > have to do it with a link
> >
> > What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> > investigate further ?
> >
> > Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
> >
> > p.s. Feel free t

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Glenn Plas]

I could use beta (power) testers willing to listen to me for 15 minutes
on how to go about certain problems, things that I assume before hitting
the upload-josm button etc.

Could also use someone do document key's / values , probably need to ask
me plenty of questions which I will respond.  At the moment the tool is
actually working, I could consider this beta 1.

There are still some translations (key values) that need to be done
better, some don't really have a easy solution, but we'll have to
discuss this.

According to Marc you do need a wide screen right now, I will sort out
some of the visual/behavior later(CSS)

What we could use as well is people who want to edit the wiki on this
(know-how), someone that is capable of making a nice wiki page.  I will
jump on completing information once it's there, I'm quite busy trying to
get more functionality in the tool.

If you want to help on the code base, you should have some javascript
skills (all the work is done in the browser on openlayers), the vectors
come from postgis database I've setup from GRB data.

Please send me a mail if you want to join me.  We also need to work on a
case for approval, this tool will help a lot but it needs more docs/wiki
food.

Glenn


https://github.com/gplv2/grb2pgsql/


> 
> Gerard, addresses are indeed important. Glenn needs beta testers for
> adding them from CRAB/AGIV. I'm rather busy with improving JOSM to map
> public transport, so I'm not getting around to it to test his work, but
> he's making great progress.
> Soon, it should become possible for everybody who uses JOSM to map those
> public transport routes and if they get broken by changes to the
> underlying infrastructure, to figure out how to fix them with as little
> effort as possible.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jo
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-07-01 15:31 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis  >:
> 
> I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> what they would map without looking at the map :-)
> 
> I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> buildings).
> That's why I turned to other stuff.
> 
> I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> rail, ditch,...)
> I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
> 
> I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
> 
> m.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  > wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already
> thoroughly mapped
> > (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> > Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> > buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> > IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street
> furniture and
> > should get more priority in mapping.
> > Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added
> object
> > counts!
> >
> > When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated
> footwalk and
> > bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend
> it, as it
> > is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> > connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway
> itself, so that
> > routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct
> paths. If
> > not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> > It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the
> map.
> >
> > So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> > (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a
> (tourist)
> > route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle
> route/network)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gerard.
> >
> > Marc Gemis wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> >> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> >> try out
> >> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> >> have to do it with a link
> >>
> >> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> >> investigate further ?
> >>
> >> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
> >>
> >> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
> >> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
> >> a map when you click it
> >>
> >>
> >>  Nederlands 
> >>
> >> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken na

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Marc Gemis]

I totally agree with you on that. I'm one of Glenn's beta testers and
I have noticed that depending on the town, the data given by GRB/Crab
can be good or very bad/outdated.
Also the data is rather limited in the types of buildings that it
recognizes, which is a problem for me.
Feel free to take a look at [1] to see stuff that is obviously wrong
in GRB, even from aerial imagery. I gave up on adding more screenshots
recently, but it should give you an idea of the data quality you can
expect :-)


m.


[1] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/AGIV-Problems/

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> Congrats!!!
> ( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)
>
> To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium, you should
> always start from the map and during survey check what is missing and
> otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still present and
> correct.
> Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things already done.
> Seems a waste of time and effort to me.
>
> As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!
>
> For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same problems with
> these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of satelite photo's.
> Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or demolished.
> Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with the real
> situation.
> eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20 houses down at
> the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
> IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded by a survey
> at place, to verify current status.
> I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real force of the
> open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such following
> much closer the reality, then the other tools.
>
> Regards,
> Gerard
>
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> what they would map without looking at the map :-)
>
> I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> buildings).
> That's why I turned to other stuff.
>
> I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> rail, ditch,...)
> I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
>
> I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly mapped
> (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> should get more priority in mapping.
> Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> counts!
>
> When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as it
> is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so that
> routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths. If
> not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
>
> So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a (tourist)
> route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle route/network)
>
> Regards,
> Gerard.
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> try out
> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> have to do it with a link
>
> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> investigate further ?
>
> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
>
> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
> a map when you click it
>
>
>  Nederlands 
>
> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
> foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
> (beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
> uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
> te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen
>
> Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
> ? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?
>
>
> p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Gerard Vanderveken]

Many POI are mapped, but some things are not and then you have to rely 
on a given address.
Housenumbers are of the most importance for long streets (300m +), where 
arriving at the wrong end or side of the road, sometimes partially one 
way, can make you make a detour of several blocks and a time loss of up 
to an half hour or more in rush hour.


Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:


On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
 


IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
should get more priority in mapping.
   



I don't use addresses a lot myself

- navigation for my walks: no addresses needed
- navigation to get to a walk: a street + nearby parking is enough
- navigation to a POI, you could search by name

only in case I need to get to someone's house I need a house number.

m

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
 

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Jo]

Gerard,

You are correct, of course. Still, the tools need to be beta tested,
preferably by people interested in mapping addresses and buildings.

Jo

2016-07-01 16:08 GMT+02:00 Gerard Vanderveken :

> Congrats!!!
> ( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)
>
> To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium, you should
> always start from the map and during survey check what is missing and
> otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still present and
> correct.
> Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things already done.
> Seems a waste of time and effort to me.
>
> As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!
>
> For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same problems
> with these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of satelite
> photo's.
> Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or demolished.
> Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with the real
> situation.
> eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20 houses down at
> the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
> IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded by a survey
> at place, to verify current status.
> I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real force of the
> open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such following
> much closer the reality, then the other tools.
>
> Regards,
> Gerard
>
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> what they would map without looking at the map :-)
>
> I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> buildings).
> That's why I turned to other stuff.
>
> I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> rail, ditch,...)
> I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
>
> I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  
>  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly mapped
> (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> should get more priority in mapping.
> Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> counts!
>
> When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as it
> is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so that
> routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths. If
> not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
>
> So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a (tourist)
> route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle route/network)
>
> Regards,
> Gerard.
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> try out
> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> have to do it with a link
>
> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> investigate further ?
>
> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
>
> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
> a map when you click it
>
>
>  Nederlands 
>
> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
> foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
> (beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
> uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
> te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen
>
> Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
> ? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?
>
>
> p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
> kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
> staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.
>
>
>
>
> [1]https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
> [2] gallery:https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing 
> listTalk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Gerard Vanderveken]

Congrats!!!
( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)

To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium, you should 
always start from the map and during survey check what is missing and 
otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still present and 
correct.
Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things already done. 
Seems a waste of time and effort to me.


As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!

For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same problems 
with these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of satelite 
photo's.
Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or demolished.  
Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with the real 
situation.
eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20 houses down 
at the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded by a 
survey at place, to verify current status.
I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real force of 
the open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such 
following much closer the reality, then the other tools.


Regards,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:


I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
what they would map without looking at the map :-)

I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
buildings).
That's why I turned to other stuff.

I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
rail, ditch,...)
I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.

I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign

m.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
 


Hi,

Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly mapped
(street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
should get more priority in mapping.
Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
counts!

When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as it
is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so that
routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths. If
not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.

So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
(I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a (tourist)
route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle route/network)

Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:

   


I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
try out
I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
have to do it with a link

What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
investigate further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
a map when you click it


 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen

Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?


p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.




[1]
https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
[2] gallery:
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

 



___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
   



___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 103, Issue 2

[Philippe Casteleyn]

gt; >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 15:43:26 +0200
> From: Jo 
> To: OpenStreetMap Belgium 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> They put that sign there, so I'd remember how to get to my aunt's house.
> She's Spanish...
> 
> What about the buttons on the traffic lights? And in how much detail to map
> those traffic lights?
> 
> Gerard, addresses are indeed important. Glenn needs beta testers for adding
> them from CRAB/AGIV. I'm rather busy with improving JOSM to map public
> transport, so I'm not getting around to it to test his work, but he's
> making great progress.
> Soon, it should become possible for everybody who uses JOSM to map those
> public transport routes and if they get broken by changes to the underlying
> infrastructure, to figure out how to fix them with as little effort as
> possible.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jo
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-07-01 15:31 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
> 
> > I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> > what they would map without looking at the map :-)
> >
> > I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> > hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> > the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> > buildings).
> > That's why I turned to other stuff.
> >
> > I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> > separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> > rail, ditch,...)
> > I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
> >
> > I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
> >
> > m.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly
> > mapped
> > > (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> > > Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> > > buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> > > IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> > > should get more priority in mapping.
> > > Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> > > counts!
> > >
> > > When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> > > bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as
> > it
> > > is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> > > connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so
> > that
> > > routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths.
> > If
> > > not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> > > It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
> > >
> > > So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> > > (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a
> > (tourist)
> > > route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle
> > route/network)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Gerard.
> > >
> > > Marc Gemis wrote:
> > >
> > >> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> > >> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> > >> try out
> > >> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> > >> have to do it with a link
> > >>
> > >> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> > >> investigate further ?
> > >>
> > >> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
> > >>
> > >> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
> > >> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
> > >> a map when you click it
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Nederlands 
> > >>
> > >> Ik vraag

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> should get more priority in mapping.

I don't use addresses a lot myself

- navigation for my walks: no addresses needed
- navigation to get to a walk: a street + nearby parking is enough
- navigation to a POI, you could search by name

only in case I need to get to someone's house I need a house number.

m

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Jo  wrote:
> What about the buttons on the traffic lights? And in how much detail to map
> those traffic lights?

O, nice one !
According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing you could
use "button_operated=yes"

m

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Jo]

They put that sign there, so I'd remember how to get to my aunt's house.
She's Spanish...

What about the buttons on the traffic lights? And in how much detail to map
those traffic lights?

Gerard, addresses are indeed important. Glenn needs beta testers for adding
them from CRAB/AGIV. I'm rather busy with improving JOSM to map public
transport, so I'm not getting around to it to test his work, but he's
making great progress.
Soon, it should become possible for everybody who uses JOSM to map those
public transport routes and if they get broken by changes to the underlying
infrastructure, to figure out how to fix them with as little effort as
possible.

Cheers,

Jo



2016-07-01 15:31 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
> what they would map without looking at the map :-)
>
> I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
> hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
> the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
> buildings).
> That's why I turned to other stuff.
>
> I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
> separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
> rail, ditch,...)
> I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.
>
> I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly
> mapped
> > (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> > Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> > buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> > IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> > should get more priority in mapping.
> > Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> > counts!
> >
> > When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> > bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as
> it
> > is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> > connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so
> that
> > routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths.
> If
> > not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> > It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
> >
> > So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> > (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a
> (tourist)
> > route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle
> route/network)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gerard.
> >
> > Marc Gemis wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
> >> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
> >> try out
> >> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
> >> have to do it with a link
> >>
> >> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
> >> investigate further ?
> >>
> >> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
> >>
> >> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
> >> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
> >> a map when you click it
> >>
> >>
> >>  Nederlands 
> >>
> >> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
> >> foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
> >> (beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
> >> uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
> >> te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen
> >>
> >> Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
> >> ? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?
> >>
> >>
> >> p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
> >> kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
> >> staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
> >> [2] gallery:
> >> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Marc Gemis]

I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
what they would map without looking at the map :-)

I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
buildings).
That's why I turned to other stuff.

I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
rail, ditch,...)
I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.

I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign

m.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly mapped
> (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
> Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
> buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
> IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
> should get more priority in mapping.
> Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
> counts!
>
> When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
> bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as it
> is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
> connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so that
> routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths. If
> not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
> It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.
>
> So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
> (I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a (tourist)
> route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle route/network)
>
> Regards,
> Gerard.
>
> Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>> I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
>> other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
>> try out
>> I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
>> have to do it with a link
>>
>> What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
>> investigate further ?
>>
>> Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch
>>
>> p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
>> anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
>> a map when you click it
>>
>>
>>  Nederlands 
>>
>> Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
>> foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
>> (beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
>> uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
>> te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen
>>
>> Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
>> ? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?
>>
>>
>> p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
>> kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
>> staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
>> [2] gallery:
>> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Gerard Vanderveken]

Hi,

Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly 
mapped (street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of 
buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture 
and should get more priority in mapping.
Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object 
counts!


When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and 
bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as 
it is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for 
connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so 
that routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct 
paths. If not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real 
or clear.

It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.

So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
(I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a 
(tourist) route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle 
route/network)


Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:


I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
try out
I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
have to do it with a link

What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
investigate further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
a map when you click it


 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen

Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?


p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.




[1] 
https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
[2] gallery: https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
 




___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

[Marc Gemis]

I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
try out
I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
have to do it with a link

What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
investigate further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
a map when you click it


 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen

Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?


p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.




[1] 
https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
[2] gallery: https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be