Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Marc Gemis 
where can I log this bug ? (I'm too lazy to look it up :-)  )


m.


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Jo  wrote:

> It seems weird to me to add postal codes to streets. It's a good thing you
> found out that this helps nominatim, but now a bug needs to be reported, so
> they can change this erratic behaviour in their code. Otherwise we'll all
> be mapping for nominatim soon.
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2013/6/11 Marc Gemis 
>
>> I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got
>> postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the
>> same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278
>>
>> Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat
>> with postal_code 2880 on the street itself
>>
>> feel free to try "Sas, Bornem" anytime to see whether it updated
>>
>> Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I
>> thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not
>> this time.
>>
>> changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas wrote:
>>
>>>  On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and
>>> let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880
>>> (Bornem).
>>> I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.
>>>
>>>  m.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will
>>> be.
>>>
>>> btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border
>>> between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data.  I've notices some
>>> roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the
>>> wrong postal code (hence also the name).
>>>
>>> The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat
>>> and Kleine Parijsstraat.  See
>>> http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14&lat=50.99405&lon=4.44663&layers=BTT&user=Glenn%20Plas&age=6%20month
>>>
>>> When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you
>>> can in hombeek (Mechelen).   Sometimes they exist in both of course, not
>>> these 2 though.
>>>
>>> One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which
>>> is our duty to add,  but at that moment also consider adding more detail
>>> using key wikipedia=.
>>>
>>> Take a look at this node
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183
>>> having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set.
>>>
>>> Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipediaand
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia  for more
>>> information.  You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this
>>> is used.   It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that
>>> only has about 12 of those currently in it.
>>>
>>> Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are
>>> interested in details.
>>>
>>> there is a plugin as well :
>>> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-be mailing list
>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Jo 
It seems weird to me to add postal codes to streets. It's a good thing you
found out that this helps nominatim, but now a bug needs to be reported, so
they can change this erratic behaviour in their code. Otherwise we'll all
be mapping for nominatim soon.

Jo

2013/6/11 Marc Gemis 

> I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got
> postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the
> same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278
>
> Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat
> with postal_code 2880 on the street itself
>
> feel free to try "Sas, Bornem" anytime to see whether it updated
>
> Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I
> thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not
> this time.
>
> changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343
>
> m
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>
>>  On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>
>> I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and
>> let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880
>> (Bornem).
>> I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.
>>
>>  m.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will
>> be.
>>
>> btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border
>> between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data.  I've notices some
>> roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the
>> wrong postal code (hence also the name).
>>
>> The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat
>> and Kleine Parijsstraat.  See
>> http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14&lat=50.99405&lon=4.44663&layers=BTT&user=Glenn%20Plas&age=6%20month
>>
>> When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can
>> in hombeek (Mechelen).   Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these
>> 2 though.
>>
>> One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which
>> is our duty to add,  but at that moment also consider adding more detail
>> using key wikipedia=.
>>
>> Take a look at this node
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183
>> having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set.
>>
>> Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipediaand
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia  for more information.
>> You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used.
>> It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has
>> about 12 of those currently in it.
>>
>> Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are
>> interested in details.
>>
>> there is a plugin as well :
>> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Marc Gemis 
and just after I sent the previous mail, house nr 2 got postal code 2880.
"Sas, Bornem" still give 9140.

m


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got
> postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the
> same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278
>
> Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat
> with postal_code 2880 on the street itself
>
> feel free to try "Sas, Bornem" anytime to see whether it updated
>
> Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I
> thought that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not
> this time.
>
> changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343
>
> m
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>
>>  On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>
>> I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and
>> let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880
>> (Bornem).
>> I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.
>>
>>  m.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will
>> be.
>>
>> btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border
>> between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data.  I've notices some
>> roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the
>> wrong postal code (hence also the name).
>>
>> The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat
>> and Kleine Parijsstraat.  See
>> http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14&lat=50.99405&lon=4.44663&layers=BTT&user=Glenn%20Plas&age=6%20month
>>
>> When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can
>> in hombeek (Mechelen).   Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these
>> 2 though.
>>
>> One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which
>> is our duty to add,  but at that moment also consider adding more detail
>> using key wikipedia=.
>>
>> Take a look at this node
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183
>> having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set.
>>
>> Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipediaand
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia  for more information.
>> You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used.
>> It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has
>> about 12 of those currently in it.
>>
>> Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are
>> interested in details.
>>
>> there is a plugin as well :
>> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Marc Gemis 
I just did the test. Immediately after uploading, the DIjkstraat got
postcode 2880 (search Nominatim). Sas not yet. They were uploading in the
same changeset : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512278

Sas is done with an associatedStreet with addr:postcode 2880, Dijkstraat
with postal_code 2880 on the street itself

feel free to try "Sas, Bornem" anytime to see whether it updated

Then I also tried adding addr:postcode 2880 on house nr 2 in Sas. I thought
that in the past it updated rather quickly when I did this, but not this
time.

changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16512343

m




On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:

>  On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and let
> you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880
> (Bornem).
> I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.
>
>  m.
>
> It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will be.
>
> btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border
> between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data.  I've notices some
> roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) but the
> wrong postal code (hence also the name).
>
> The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat and
> Kleine Parijsstraat.  See
> http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14&lat=50.99405&lon=4.44663&layers=BTT&user=Glenn%20Plas&age=6%20month
>
> When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you can
> in hombeek (Mechelen).   Sometimes they exist in both of course, not these
> 2 though.
>
> One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which is
> our duty to add,  but at that moment also consider adding more detail using
> key wikipedia=.
>
> Take a look at this node
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183
> having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set.
>
> Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia and
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia  for more information.
> You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how this is used.
> It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, but that only has
> about 12 of those currently in it.
>
> Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are interested
> in details.
>
> there is a plugin as well :
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia
>
> Glenn
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Glenn Plas 

On 06/11/2013 03:01 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and 
let you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 
2880 (Bornem).

I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.

m.

It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that little test will be.

btw, I've been fixing some postal codes too on roads across the border 
between zemst and mechelen, I decide based on AGIV data. I've notices 
some roads had the correct name (either on the relation or on it's own) 
but the wrong postal code (hence also the name).


The borders there are a not entirely accurate, for example Boterstraat 
and Kleine Parijsstraat.  See 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/?zoom=14&lat=50.99405&lon=4.44663&layers=BTT&user=Glenn%20Plas&age=6%20month


When checking with AGIV, you cannot find Boterstraat in zemst but you 
can in hombeek (Mechelen).   Sometimes they exist in both of course, not 
these 2 though.


One other thing, I noticed a lot of people use source=wikipedia , which 
is our duty to add,  but at that moment also consider adding more detail 
using key wikipedia=.


Take a look at this node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/106946183
having wikipedia=nl:Chiro set.

Links on the subject are http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia 
and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia for more 
information.  You can click through vast amounts of docs there on how 
this is used.   It's widely supported on software presenting OSM data, 
but that only has about 12 of those currently in it.


Check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM if you are 
interested in details.


there is a plugin as well : 
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/Wikipedia


Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Marc Gemis 
I'll try again with associated street on Sas or Dijkstraat, Bornem and let
you know my findings. At this moment they return 9140 instead of 2880
(Bornem).
I'll do one with postal code and the other with associated street.

m.


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:

>  On 06/11/2013 12:31 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> The postal_code tag on the street is taken into account almost
> immediately. Even after several days, the one on associated street does not
> work.I know that somewhere you can see the backlog of nominatim, but forgot
> where.
>
>  The FAQ does not mention associatedStreet:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/FAQ
>
>  I don't know how to add a post code as polygon (as mentioned in the
> FAQ). I've tried with placing it on an administrative boundary (Rumst), but
> that did not help for the "12".
> The is_in worked for some streets in Hombeek (was using the postcode from
> Zemst on some, but not all street), but did not work for the ones in
> Hingene.
>
>  When you dig deeper into Nominatim, the output of
> http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=40331960 might
> become clearer, but I don't understand all of it (yet).
>
>  m
>
> Try this link:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Development_overview#Postcodes
>
> Sure mentions the AssociatedStreet relation.  That's why this surprises me.
>
> Glenn
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Glenn Plas 

On 06/11/2013 12:31 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
The postal_code tag on the street is taken into account almost 
immediately. Even after several days, the one on associated street 
does not work.I know that somewhere you can see the backlog of 
nominatim, but forgot where.


The FAQ does not mention associatedStreet: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/FAQ


I don't know how to add a post code as polygon (as mentioned in the 
FAQ). I've tried with placing it on an administrative boundary 
(Rumst), but that did not help for the "12".
The is_in worked for some streets in Hombeek (was using the postcode 
from Zemst on some, but not all street), but did not work for the ones 
in Hingene.


When you dig deeper into Nominatim, the output of 
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=40331960 might 
become clearer, but I don't understand all of it (yet).


m

Try this link:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Development_overview#Postcodes

Sure mentions the AssociatedStreet relation.  That's why this surprises me.

Glenn
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Marc Gemis 
The postal_code tag on the street is taken into account almost immediately.
Even after several days, the one on associated street does not work.I know
that somewhere you can see the backlog of nominatim, but forgot where.

The FAQ does not mention associatedStreet:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/FAQ

I don't know how to add a post code as polygon (as mentioned in the FAQ).
I've tried with placing it on an administrative boundary (Rumst), but that
did not help for the "12".
The is_in worked for some streets in Hombeek (was using the postcode from
Zemst on some, but not all street), but did not work for the ones in
Hingene.

When you dig deeper into Nominatim, the output of
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=40331960 might
become clearer, but I don't understand all of it (yet).

m


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Jo  wrote:

> 2013/6/11 Glenn Plas 
>
>>  On 06/11/2013 05:29 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>
>> An update  on my problem with postalcode 12 appearing on some roads in
>> Rumst when you do a seach on openstreetmap.org.
>>
>>  I posted my question in the help forum. One of the nominatim
>> maintainers (I assume), dropped the node that was tagged with postal code
>> 12. It was somewhere in the nominatim database and could not be removed by
>> editing via Josm (or another editor).
>>
>>  Since then I found that nominatim often returns the wrong postal code
>> for streets in Hingene. I assume it is caused by their "closed node"
>> algorithm, which return a 9000 code, simply because it's the nearest node
>> with a postal_code. I solved this by adding a postal_code tag with the
>> correct number on the street itself. An associated street relation with the
>> correct number does not work.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> Tx for the information, I'm compiling nominatim documentation about the
>> inner workings and this goes against everything I learned so far,
>> especially the associated street relation not taking precedence in this
>> case is quite surprising to me with what I know so far.  Very
>> interesting.   Now I know for sure that I don't know it all yet.
>>
>> By going to the nominatim code and the database schema's I was about to
>> debunk my own words in the past, now I need to re-reconsider.  (I've set up
>> several myself and use them in production).   Seems that noone can really
>> explain in simpel steps how the inner things work so I was giving it a
>> try.   Really appreciate you taking the time to share this.
>>
>
> Could it be that Nominatim is caching for too long and that it takes a
> long time to take update information in OSM in account?
>
> Jo
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Jo 
2013/6/11 Glenn Plas 

>  On 06/11/2013 05:29 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> An update  on my problem with postalcode 12 appearing on some roads in
> Rumst when you do a seach on openstreetmap.org.
>
>  I posted my question in the help forum. One of the nominatim maintainers
> (I assume), dropped the node that was tagged with postal code 12. It was
> somewhere in the nominatim database and could not be removed by editing via
> Josm (or another editor).
>
>  Since then I found that nominatim often returns the wrong postal code
> for streets in Hingene. I assume it is caused by their "closed node"
> algorithm, which return a 9000 code, simply because it's the nearest node
> with a postal_code. I solved this by adding a postal_code tag with the
> correct number on the street itself. An associated street relation with the
> correct number does not work.
>
>
>
> Marc,
>
> Tx for the information, I'm compiling nominatim documentation about the
> inner workings and this goes against everything I learned so far,
> especially the associated street relation not taking precedence in this
> case is quite surprising to me with what I know so far.  Very
> interesting.   Now I know for sure that I don't know it all yet.
>
> By going to the nominatim code and the database schema's I was about to
> debunk my own words in the past, now I need to re-reconsider.  (I've set up
> several myself and use them in production).   Seems that noone can really
> explain in simpel steps how the inner things work so I was giving it a
> try.   Really appreciate you taking the time to share this.
>

Could it be that Nominatim is caching for too long and that it takes a long
time to take update information in OSM in account?

Jo
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-11 Thread Glenn Plas 

On 06/11/2013 05:29 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
An update  on my problem with postalcode 12 appearing on some roads in 
Rumst when you do a seach on openstreetmap.org 
.


I posted my question in the help forum. One of the nominatim 
maintainers (I assume), dropped the node that was tagged with postal 
code 12. It was somewhere in the nominatim database and could not be 
removed by editing via Josm (or another editor).


Since then I found that nominatim often returns the wrong postal code 
for streets in Hingene. I assume it is caused by their "closed node" 
algorithm, which return a 9000 code, simply because it's the nearest 
node with a postal_code. I solved this by adding a postal_code tag 
with the correct number on the street itself. An associated street 
relation with the correct number does not work.





Marc,

Tx for the information, I'm compiling nominatim documentation about the 
inner workings and this goes against everything I learned so far,  
especially the associated street relation not taking precedence in this 
case is quite surprising to me with what I know so far.  Very 
interesting.   Now I know for sure that I don't know it all yet.


By going to the nominatim code and the database schema's I was about to 
debunk my own words in the past, now I need to re-reconsider. (I've set 
up several myself and use them in production).   Seems that noone can 
really explain in simpel steps how the inner things work so I was giving 
it a try.   Really appreciate you taking the time to share this.


glenn
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[OSM-talk-be] Postalcode 12 in Rumst - Fixed

2013-06-10 Thread Marc Gemis 
An update  on my problem with postalcode 12 appearing on some roads in
Rumst when you do a seach on openstreetmap.org.

I posted my question in the help forum. One of the nominatim maintainers (I
assume), dropped the node that was tagged with postal code 12. It was
somewhere in the nominatim database and could not be removed by editing via
Josm (or another editor).

Since then I found that nominatim often returns the wrong postal code for
streets in Hingene. I assume it is caused by their "closed node" algorithm,
which return a 9000 code, simply because it's the nearest node with a
postal_code. I solved this by adding a postal_code tag with the correct
number on the street itself. An associated street relation with the correct
number does not work.

m
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