Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Marc Gemis]

I have adapted the wiki page, stating that in Belgium we prefer to use
school for Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs

I'm willing to change this in case I misunderstood the discussion so
far or when another consensus is reached in the future.

thanks everybody for participating in the discussion

regards

m.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Jasper Michels  wrote:
> My personal opinion:
>
> We shouldn't make a difference between ASO and technical education.
> 10 years back when i was in technical education, there was still a physical
> difference (another building, or other place in the city)
> Nowadays (my old school), Schools are fusionating (ASO and TSO), and
> students have to move from 1 building (or place in the city), to another
> building for each (somme) course.
>
> Apart from that, i really thinck its old fashioned thinking. I studied TIW
> (technical industrial Sience) in a technical school.
> We had somme practical education, but most theoritical. (almost same as ASO,
> but less language (i'm sorry ;) )
>
> => Chose one tag for secondary education (i would chose the one used in
> other countrys) and don't make the difference between type of secondary
> education.
>(Because: old fashioned thinking, It physically doenst exist anymore (in
> alot of cases )
>
> 2017-06-02 11:40 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
>>
>> Joost, Ben,
>>
>> The question remains, is a "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." in Belgium a
>> college or a school ?
>> Michaël, Guy and myself believe it is school. The Dutch mapper said it
>> is college (for The Netherlands).
>> Should the wiki differentiate between Belgium and The Netherlands
>> (because the middelbaar beroepsonderwijs is so different), or did I
>> (and the others) have the wrong interpretation of the English wiki on
>> schools and colleges ?
>> I'll agree we should stick to the English definition, that's what the
>> Dutch tried to do as well, but with a I different outcome than we
>> have.
>>
>> As for the school:XX, it is in addition to the amenity=school, but
>> allows local people to search in their own language without knowing
>> the OSM definition of school & college. This could make life of apps
>> such a OsmAnd easier, because the mappers do the translation. Support
>> I want to search for all atheneums in Belgium (not Lyceums, not
>> colleges (e..g Sint-Jansberghmanscollege). With a school:NL=atheneum
>> this would be solved. Now OsmAnd has to come up with some translation
>> 
>>
>> Note that there is not an English word for each concept in the world,:-)
>> [1]
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://mentalfloss.com/article/28915/14-more-wonderful-words-no-english-equivalent
>>  (and other pages)
>>
>> m.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen
>>  wrote:
>> > I think as non-english speakers we should not look at the meaning of the
>> > words in the tags in Dutch or French, just what they mean in native
>> > english
>> > and try to define english words that mean what we want to say. If we
>> > can't
>> > then it's time to make up our own tags.
>> >
>> > This way we maximise reuse over country/language borders and we can
>> > still
>> > tag our own schools as they are structured here.
>> >
>> > Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Ben Abelshausen
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:59 AM, joost schouppe
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for
>> >>> > secondary
>> >>> > schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad
>> >>> > idea,
>> >>> > even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
>> >>>
>> >>> That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
>> >>> and having enough people backing it up.
>> >>> I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
>> >>> and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
>> >>> I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
>> >>> too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.
>> >>>
>> >>> The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
>> >>> idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
>> >>> other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> The OSM definition of an amenity=school is what defines which objects
>> >> need
>> >> that tag, not what happens to be your local daily use of the word
>> >> "school"
>> >> in spoken language. OSM can never work if people use a tag as nothing
>> >> but a
>> >> word that sounds logical. That seems so obvious to me that I'm afraid
>> >> I'm
>> >> missing the point.
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-be mailing list
>> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-be mailing list
>> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Jasper Michels]

*My personal opinion:*

We shouldn't make a difference between ASO and technical education.
10 years back when i was in technical education, there was still a physical
difference (another building, or other place in the city)
Nowadays (my old school), Schools are fusionating (ASO and TSO),
and students have to move from 1 building (or place in the city), to
another building for each (somme) course.

Apart from that, i really thinck its old fashioned thinking. I studied TIW
(technical industrial Sience) in a technical school.
We had somme practical education, but most theoritical. (almost same as
ASO, but less language (i'm sorry ;) )

=> Chose one tag for secondary education (i would chose the one used in
other countrys) and don't make the difference between type of secondary
education.
   (Because: old fashioned thinking, It physically doenst exist anymore (in
alot of cases )

2017-06-02 11:40 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> Joost, Ben,
>
> The question remains, is a "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." in Belgium a
> college or a school ?
> Michaël, Guy and myself believe it is school. The Dutch mapper said it
> is college (for The Netherlands).
> Should the wiki differentiate between Belgium and The Netherlands
> (because the middelbaar beroepsonderwijs is so different), or did I
> (and the others) have the wrong interpretation of the English wiki on
> schools and colleges ?
> I'll agree we should stick to the English definition, that's what the
> Dutch tried to do as well, but with a I different outcome than we
> have.
>
> As for the school:XX, it is in addition to the amenity=school, but
> allows local people to search in their own language without knowing
> the OSM definition of school & college. This could make life of apps
> such a OsmAnd easier, because the mappers do the translation. Support
> I want to search for all atheneums in Belgium (not Lyceums, not
> colleges (e..g Sint-Jansberghmanscollege). With a school:NL=atheneum
> this would be solved. Now OsmAnd has to come up with some translation
> 
>
> Note that there is not an English word for each concept in the world,:-)
> [1]
>
>
> [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/28915/14-more-
> wonderful-words-no-english-equivalent
>  (and other pages)
>
> m.
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen
>  wrote:
> > I think as non-english speakers we should not look at the meaning of the
> > words in the tags in Dutch or French, just what they mean in native
> english
> > and try to define english words that mean what we want to say. If we
> can't
> > then it's time to make up our own tags.
> >
> > This way we maximise reuse over country/language borders and we can still
> > tag our own schools as they are structured here.
> >
> > Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Ben Abelshausen
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:59 AM, joost schouppe <
> joost.schou...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> > Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for
> secondary
> >>> > schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad
> >>> > idea,
> >>> > even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
> >>>
> >>> That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
> >>> and having enough people backing it up.
> >>> I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
> >>> and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
> >>> I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
> >>> too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.
> >>>
> >>> The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
> >>> idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
> >>> other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)
> >>>
> >>
> >> The OSM definition of an amenity=school is what defines which objects
> need
> >> that tag, not what happens to be your local daily use of the word
> "school"
> >> in spoken language. OSM can never work if people use a tag as nothing
> but a
> >> word that sounds logical. That seems so obvious to me that I'm afraid
> I'm
> >> missing the point.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
>
> ___
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> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Marc Gemis]

Joost, Ben,

The question remains, is a "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." in Belgium a
college or a school ?
Michaël, Guy and myself believe it is school. The Dutch mapper said it
is college (for The Netherlands).
Should the wiki differentiate between Belgium and The Netherlands
(because the middelbaar beroepsonderwijs is so different), or did I
(and the others) have the wrong interpretation of the English wiki on
schools and colleges ?
I'll agree we should stick to the English definition, that's what the
Dutch tried to do as well, but with a I different outcome than we
have.

As for the school:XX, it is in addition to the amenity=school, but
allows local people to search in their own language without knowing
the OSM definition of school & college. This could make life of apps
such a OsmAnd easier, because the mappers do the translation. Support
I want to search for all atheneums in Belgium (not Lyceums, not
colleges (e..g Sint-Jansberghmanscollege). With a school:NL=atheneum
this would be solved. Now OsmAnd has to come up with some translation


Note that there is not an English word for each concept in the world,:-) [1]


[1] 
http://mentalfloss.com/article/28915/14-more-wonderful-words-no-english-equivalent
 (and other pages)

m.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen
 wrote:
> I think as non-english speakers we should not look at the meaning of the
> words in the tags in Dutch or French, just what they mean in native english
> and try to define english words that mean what we want to say. If we can't
> then it's time to make up our own tags.
>
> This way we maximise reuse over country/language borders and we can still
> tag our own schools as they are structured here.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:59 AM, joost schouppe 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for secondary
>>> > schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad
>>> > idea,
>>> > even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
>>>
>>> That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
>>> and having enough people backing it up.
>>> I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
>>> and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
>>> I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
>>> too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.
>>>
>>> The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
>>> idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
>>> other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)
>>>
>>
>> The OSM definition of an amenity=school is what defines which objects need
>> that tag, not what happens to be your local daily use of the word "school"
>> in spoken language. OSM can never work if people use a tag as nothing but a
>> word that sounds logical. That seems so obvious to me that I'm afraid I'm
>> missing the point.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Marc Gemis]

The "hoe map ik ..." pages were set up after a meeting in Lier,
somewhere in 2011 or 2012. It started as a Flemish effort to translate
the German pages.
Later on Dutch people joined. So that wiki is still important for the
Belgian wiki, but can be used by the Dutch community as well, as long
as we state the differences.

m.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Jakka  wrote:
> To give a correct description how education is given and devided over
> several schools (general term) in our country Belgium you need someone from
> inside "ministerial of education". The last few years there is a lot of
> changes, schools must join and reprogram  what they will educate. They lose
> some they gain some, description its also related from the past if you ask
> older people what is a "college" or "vakschool" it is not the same now.
> I think it is different then in the Netherlands, England or other country's.
> A serious Belgium wiki would help our OSM.BE community.
>
> Op 2/06/2017 om 7:01 schreef Marc Gemis:
>
>> Niemand buiten Guy die een constructieve bijdrage heeft ?
>> No-one except Guy that have some useful to say ?
>> Quelqu'un qui peut dire quelque chose intéressant sur ce sujet ?
>> Niemand, der einen positiven Beitrag hat ? (auto translated)
>>
>> :-( :-( :-(
>>
>> Laat u aub niet afschrikken om in het Nederlands, Frans, Duits of
>> Engels te antwoorden
>> Feel free to answer in either Dutch, French, German, English. Do not
>> let you scare away by some people asking for English.
>> Ne soyez pas intimidé tout de répondre en néerlandais, français,
>> allemand ou anglais
>> Sie nicht eingeschüchtert, während werden in Niederländisch,
>> Französisch, Deutsch oder Englisch antworten
>>
>> m.
>>
>> 2017-05-31 19:06 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :

 Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
 mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
 Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
 personnes d'en faire une?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
>>> librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?
>>>
>>> J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
>>> problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:
>>>
>>> "I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there
>>> can
>>> be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
>>> education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
>>> university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
>>> professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school,
>>> so
>>> there it could in fact be "college".
>>>
>>> (it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-be mailing list
>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Ben Abelshausen]

I think as non-english speakers we should not look at the meaning of the
words in the tags in Dutch or French, just what they mean in native english
and try to define english words that mean what we want to say. If we can't
then it's time to make up our own tags.

This way we maximise reuse over country/language borders and we can still
tag our own schools as they are structured here.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:59 AM, joost schouppe 
wrote:

>
>
>> > Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for secondary
>> > schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad idea,
>> > even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
>>
>> That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
>> and having enough people backing it up.
>> I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
>> and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
>> I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
>> too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.
>>
>> The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
>> idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
>> other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)
>>
>>
> The OSM definition of an amenity=school is what defines which objects need
> that tag, not what happens to be your local daily use of the word "school"
> in spoken language. OSM can never work if people use a tag as nothing but a
> word that sounds logical. That seems so obvious to me that I'm afraid I'm
> missing the point.
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[joost schouppe]

> > Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for secondary
> > schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad idea,
> > even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
>
> That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
> and having enough people backing it up.
> I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
> and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
> I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
> too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.
>
> The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
> idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
> other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)
>
>
The OSM definition of an amenity=school is what defines which objects need
that tag, not what happens to be your local daily use of the word "school"
in spoken language. OSM can never work if people use a tag as nothing but a
word that sounds logical. That seems so obvious to me that I'm afraid I'm
missing the point.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Michaël Dierick  wrote:
> Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for secondary
> schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad idea,
> even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
> Would it be possible to revert the notice on the how-to-map-page that calls
> to use "amenity=college" for "middelbaar beroepsonderwijs"?

That is what I was planning to do after consulting this mailing list
and having enough people backing it up.
I'm even willing to keep the line there and add (in The Netherlands)
and another line to ask to use "school" in Belgium.
I guess I already have a "bad" name in The Netherlands to interfere
too much, so I won't change their mapping rules.

The French use school:FR to indicate collège, lycée, etc. I like that
idea, and think it might be even useful to have something like that in
other contexts as well (e.g. for pubs/restaurants/...)

m.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Jakka]

To give a correct description how education is given and devided over 
several schools (general term) in our country Belgium you need someone 
from inside "ministerial of education". The last few years there is a 
lot of changes, schools must join and reprogram  what they will educate. 
They lose some they gain some, description its also related from the 
past if you ask older people what is a "college" or "vakschool" it is 
not the same now. I think it is different then in the Netherlands, 
England or other country's. A serious Belgium wiki would help our OSM.BE 
community.


Op 2/06/2017 om 7:01 schreef Marc Gemis:

Niemand buiten Guy die een constructieve bijdrage heeft ?
No-one except Guy that have some useful to say ?
Quelqu'un qui peut dire quelque chose intéressant sur ce sujet ?
Niemand, der einen positiven Beitrag hat ? (auto translated)

:-( :-( :-(

Laat u aub niet afschrikken om in het Nederlands, Frans, Duits of
Engels te antwoorden
Feel free to answer in either Dutch, French, German, English. Do not
let you scare away by some people asking for English.
Ne soyez pas intimidé tout de répondre en néerlandais, français,
allemand ou anglais
Sie nicht eingeschüchtert, während werden in Niederländisch,
Französisch, Deutsch oder Englisch antworten

m.

2017-05-31 19:06 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :

Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
personnes d'en faire une?



Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?

J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:

"I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there can
be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school, so
there it could in fact be "college".

(it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Michaël Dierick]

My understanding of what "amenity=college" means in OSM, corresponds 
with how it is explained on the English wiki ( 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcollege ).


Although it is preferable that the name of a tag makes clear what 
concept it describes, this example shows once again that achieving this 
on a global scale isn't always possible.
I do not care too much about which tag is used for what, as long as 
everybody is thinking of the same thing when using it. Having consistent 
data is essential for it to be useful.


Therefore, in my opinion, using the tag "amenity=college" for secondary 
schools (as in "secundair onderwijs", "école secondaire") is a bad idea, 
even though in dutch it can be called a "college".
Would it be possible to revert the notice on the how-to-map-page that 
calls to use "amenity=college" for "middelbaar beroepsonderwijs"?


Michaël

On 06/02/2017 07:01 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:

Niemand buiten Guy die een constructieve bijdrage heeft ?
No-one except Guy that have some useful to say ?
Quelqu'un qui peut dire quelque chose intéressant sur ce sujet ?
Niemand, der einen positiven Beitrag hat ? (auto translated)

:-( :-( :-(

Laat u aub niet afschrikken om in het Nederlands, Frans, Duits of
Engels te antwoorden
Feel free to answer in either Dutch, French, German, English. Do not
let you scare away by some people asking for English.
Ne soyez pas intimidé tout de répondre en néerlandais, français,
allemand ou anglais
Sie nicht eingeschüchtert, während werden in Niederländisch,
Französisch, Deutsch oder Englisch antworten

m.

2017-05-31 19:06 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :

Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
personnes d'en faire une?


Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?

J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:

"I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there can
be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school, so
there it could in fact be "college".

(it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Marc Gemis]

Niemand buiten Guy die een constructieve bijdrage heeft ?
No-one except Guy that have some useful to say ?
Quelqu'un qui peut dire quelque chose intéressant sur ce sujet ?
Niemand, der einen positiven Beitrag hat ? (auto translated)

:-( :-( :-(

Laat u aub niet afschrikken om in het Nederlands, Frans, Duits of
Engels te antwoorden
Feel free to answer in either Dutch, French, German, English. Do not
let you scare away by some people asking for English.
Ne soyez pas intimidé tout de répondre en néerlandais, français,
allemand ou anglais
Sie nicht eingeschüchtert, während werden in Niederländisch,
Französisch, Deutsch oder Englisch antworten

m.

2017-05-31 19:06 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe :
>> Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
>> mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
>> Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
>> personnes d'en faire une?
>
>
> Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
> librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?
>
> J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
> problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:
>
> "I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there can
> be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
> education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
> university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
> professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school, so
> there it could in fact be "college".
>
> (it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[joost schouppe]

>
> Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
> mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
> Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
> personnes d'en faire une?
>

Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?

J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:

"I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there can
be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school, so
there it could in fact be "college".

(it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[André Pirard]

On 2017-05-31 15:10, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote:
> Volgens mij is 'school'voor België de beste oplossing. In één school kunnen 
> immers meerdere afdelingen zijn: beroepsonderwijs, maar ook ASO. Als je 
> Wikipedia zou volgen is 'college' een klassikale les krijgen aan een 
> universiteit. Als je googled naar 'beroepsonderwijs in college' kom je 
> gegarandeerd op een Nederlandse school terecht, dus daar kan het wel 
> 'college' zijn. 
> GuyVV
> Je pense est school'voor Belgique, la meilleure solution. Dans une
> école plusieurs ministères peuvent en effet être: professionnel, mais
> ASO. Si vous suivez « collège » Wikipedia recevoir une formation en
> classe dans une université. Si vous googlé pour « l'enseignement
> professionnel au collège » vous garanti une école néerlandaise à juste
> titre comme il peut être « collège » est.
> > GuyVV
???
Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
personnes d'en faire une?

De quel tag s'agit-il exactement?
"college" signifie enseignement supérieur en anglais.
Comme il y a de gros problèmes de correspondance de termes, même avec la
France, pourquoi ne pas utiliser "collège:BE" ou, encore mieux s'il le
faut, "collège:BE:fr"?
En plus de "school", évidement.

Which tag is it exactly?
"College" means higher education in English.
As there are big problems of aanpassing of terms, even with France, why
not use "collège:BE" or, better still if needed, "collège:BE:fr"?
In addition to "school", obviously.

Welke tag is het precies?
"College" betekent het hoger onderwijs in het Engels.
Omdat er grote correspondance problemen zijn, zelfs met Frankrijk,
waarom niet "collège:BE" gebruiken of, nog beter, indien nodig,
"collège:BE:fr"?
Naast "school", natuurlijk.

Cheers

André.


> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
> Verzonden: woensdag 31 mei 2017 5:16
> Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
> Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college
>
> A Dutch mapper changed the "Hoe map ik een" school the other day.[1]
> The original discussion leading to the change can be found here: [2]
> in Dutch and with a lot of acronyms specific for The Netherlands.
>
> Do we want to map "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." (L'enseignement
> secondaire professionnel ?) as college ? I would never have thought to
> map them as college, but I could be wrong.
>
>
> m.
>
>
> Een Nederlandse mapper heeft de sectie voor hoe map ik een school
> aangepast [1] naar aanleiding van een discussie op het Nederlandse
> forum [2]. Nu zouden we middelbaar beroepsonderwijs als college moeten
> mappen. Ik zou er nooit aan gedacht hebben dit zo te taggen,
> waarschijnlijk had ik gewoon school gebruikt. Ik heb het misschien bij
> het verkeerde eind. Wat denken jullie ervan ?
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:NL:How_to_map_a:S=next=1390987
> [2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57278
>

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Volgens mij is 'school'voor België de beste oplossing. In één school kunnen 
immers meerdere afdelingen zijn: beroepsonderwijs, maar ook ASO. Als je 
Wikipedia zou volgen is 'college' een klassikale les krijgen aan een 
universiteit. Als je googled naar 'beroepsonderwijs in college' kom je 
gegarandeerd op een Nederlandse school terecht, dus daar kan het wel 'college' 
zijn. 
GuyVV

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 31 mei 2017 5:16
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

A Dutch mapper changed the "Hoe map ik een" school the other day.[1]
The original discussion leading to the change can be found here: [2]
in Dutch and with a lot of acronyms specific for The Netherlands.

Do we want to map "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." (L'enseignement
secondaire professionnel ?) as college ? I would never have thought to
map them as college, but I could be wrong.


m.


Een Nederlandse mapper heeft de sectie voor hoe map ik een school
aangepast [1] naar aanleiding van een discussie op het Nederlandse
forum [2]. Nu zouden we middelbaar beroepsonderwijs als college moeten
mappen. Ik zou er nooit aan gedacht hebben dit zo te taggen,
waarschijnlijk had ik gewoon school gebruikt. Ik heb het misschien bij
het verkeerde eind. Wat denken jullie ervan ?





[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:NL:How_to_map_a:S=next=1390987
[2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57278

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