Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries pulled to match ground features

[Dave Foley]

I fixed the Kilmashogue and Taylors Grange boundaries and did some tidy up on 
Marlay Park.


Dafo



From: Brian Hollinshead 
Sent: Saturday 1 September 2018 17:19
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries pulled to match ground features

The boundary between Kilmashogue and Taylors Grange has been pulled out of
position to suit the Marlay Park golf course. Please see ways
openstreetmaps.org/way/563594212 and 213

Similarly openstreetmap.org/way/325217162 has been grossly pulled to fit
ground features.

These differences can be easily seen in JOSM using gsgs3906 image and in
maps.openstreetmap.ie which remains correct somehow.

I hope one of you knows please how to reverse this pull without hurting
other features and will do it. I do not regard it as within my competency
to undertake this.
Many thanks.
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[OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries pulled to match ground features

[Brian Hollinshead]

The boundary between Kilmashogue and Taylors Grange has been pulled out of
position to suit the Marlay Park golf course. Please see ways
openstreetmaps.org/way/563594212 and 213

Similarly openstreetmap.org/way/325217162 has been grossly pulled to fit
ground features.

These differences can be easily seen in JOSM using gsgs3906 image and in
maps.openstreetmap.ie which remains correct somehow.

I hope one of you knows please how to reverse this pull without hurting
other features and will do it. I do not regard it as within my competency
to undertake this.
Many thanks.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

[Dave Corley]

Regarding turloughs, in the past I think I have used the following tags

natural=water
water=turlough
intermittent=yes

Based on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Intermittent

As for tagging townlands along the shore, a few of us discussed this in the
IRC channel (linked below) as I personally hadn't come across this as I
haven't mapped near any large lakes yet. It makes most sense to bring your
boundary in line with the current shape of the lake, i.e. the edge of the
lake also acts as your townland boundary.

Another way of looking at this, is these natural boundaries are inclined to
change over time. Think of it in relation to the coastline boundary in
terms of erosion and land reclamation.

Note, this is different to how you would treat rivers/roads that have
changed over time, in those instances, you map to the boundary marked on
the sheet, not the feature

Hope this helps,
Dave





On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Conor Jones  wrote:

> Paddy,
>
> Perhaps natural=wetland and then wetlands=*
>
> - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=wetland
>
> - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wetland
>
> I tend to try map to the median water mark as the lake/water and then draw
> the remaining wetland as a separate area
>
> I recently done a lake with a changing boundary:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/54.6427/-8.6681
>
> I used wetland=tidalflat which in hind-sight probably isn't the most
> suitable
>
>
> C
>
>
> On 25 October 2014 14:42, pcasey  wrote:
>
> > How does one map the outlines of turloughs ? They flood and drain with
> the
> > seasons and with also changes in precipitation (heavy rainfall <->
> drought).
> >
> > Paddy
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Conor Jones [mailto:co...@malinbeg.com]
> > Sent: 25 October 2014 14:34
> > To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > Would I be correct in saying that the boundary should follow the new
> > shore-line of the lake as I imagine when the boundaries were originally
> > drawn, they used the "prominence" of the shore-line as the boundary and
> not
> > the location of the shore-line... if that makes sense?
> >
> > Might someone add?
> >
> > C
> > ___
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> > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Conor Jones
> * E:*  co...@malinbeg.com
> * M:* +353 (0)86 200 8884
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

[Conor Jones]

Paddy,

Perhaps natural=wetland and then wetlands=*

- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=wetland

- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wetland

I tend to try map to the median water mark as the lake/water and then draw
the remaining wetland as a separate area

I recently done a lake with a changing boundary:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/54.6427/-8.6681

I used wetland=tidalflat which in hind-sight probably isn't the most
suitable


C


On 25 October 2014 14:42, pcasey  wrote:

> How does one map the outlines of turloughs ? They flood and drain with the
> seasons and with also changes in precipitation (heavy rainfall <-> drought).
>
> Paddy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Conor Jones [mailto:co...@malinbeg.com]
> Sent: 25 October 2014 14:34
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Would I be correct in saying that the boundary should follow the new
> shore-line of the lake as I imagine when the boundaries were originally
> drawn, they used the "prominence" of the shore-line as the boundary and not
> the location of the shore-line... if that makes sense?
>
> Might someone add?
>
> C
> ___
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> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
>
> ___
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>



-- 
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* E:*  co...@malinbeg.com
* M:* +353 (0)86 200 8884
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

[pcasey]

How does one map the outlines of turloughs ? They flood and drain with the 
seasons and with also changes in precipitation (heavy rainfall <-> drought).

Paddy

-Original Message-
From: Conor Jones [mailto:co...@malinbeg.com] 
Sent: 25 October 2014 14:34
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

Hi Brian,

Would I be correct in saying that the boundary should follow the new shore-line 
of the lake as I imagine when the boundaries were originally drawn, they used 
the "prominence" of the shore-line as the boundary and not the location of the 
shore-line... if that makes sense?

Might someone add?

C
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

[Conor Jones]

Hi Brian,

Would I be correct in saying that the boundary should follow the new
shore-line of the lake as I imagine when the boundaries were originally
drawn, they used the "prominence" of the shore-line as the boundary and not
the location of the shore-line... if that makes sense?

Might someone add?

C
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[OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries on lake shores

[Brian Prangle]

Westmeath has a lot of lakes and I've come across instances , particularly
around Lough Derravaragh
 where the historic
scanned shoreline does not match the existing shoreline. Generally the
existing shoreline has shrunk. What I've done is to use the original
shoreline as the boundary, which means that there are small strips of land
without a townland. Is it posssible to have land in Ireland that's not part
of a townland? Or should the boundaries move from the historic route to the
new shoreline?

Regards

Brian
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Donal Diamond]

Here's the list of the GSI sheets

/IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-09-NE-Araglin-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-11-21-NE-Galway-City-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-11-31-SE-Bunnyconnellan-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-14-17-SE-Killaloe-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-14-25-NE-Glennamaddy-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-23-NE-Brideswell-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-23-SE-Ballinasloe-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-09-SW-Fermoy-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-21-NE-Shannonbridge-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-11-17/IRL-GSGS-3906-17-23-SW-Ahascragh-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-32-35/IRL-GSGS-3906-35-33-SW-Ardglass-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-32-35/IRL-GSGS-3906-32-37-SW-Belfast-(west)-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-32-35/IRL-GSGS-3906-35-35-NW-Greyabbey-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-32-35/IRL-GSGS-3906-35-33-NW-Strangford-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-23-19-NE-Emo-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-23-09-NE-Tramore-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-23-25-SE-Killucan-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-29-23-NE-Swords-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-29-13-NE-Monamolin-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-23-09-SW-Stradbally-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-23-25-NE-Collinstown-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-20-29/IRL-GSGS-3906-26-41-SE-Garvagh-GSI.tif
./IRL-GSGS-3906-02-08/IRL-GSGS-3906-08-33-SW-Ross-Port-GSI.tif

These GSI sheets are only in 2 colours (black/white)  while the other
600 odd sheets are in 256 colours

D

 16


On 20 October 2014 11:55, Dave Corley  wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> These are some of the GSI sheets. Unfortunately they are of lower quality.
> It is still possible to trace townlands from them, but I would suggest
> avoiding these 2 sheets for now, and work on better quality ones until you
> get the hang of tracing the townlands.
>
> In Galway I came across one of these as my second sheet, left it and did
> another 2 sheets before I felt confident enough to be able to spot all the
> boundaries. Once you do make a start, try to aim for the smaller ones
> first, or ones through bogs where the townland boundary can be easily seen.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
> > Thanks Patrick for solving the riddle of boundaries through Lough Owel
> >
> > Scanned Sheets 23-25-NE-Collinstown and 23-25-SE-Killucan are very
> > contrasty and it is very difficult to see the dotted lines for townland
> > boundaries. Are the originals like this or can they be improved with a
> > rescan?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Brian
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Dave Corley]

Hi Brian,

These are some of the GSI sheets. Unfortunately they are of lower quality.
It is still possible to trace townlands from them, but I would suggest
avoiding these 2 sheets for now, and work on better quality ones until you
get the hang of tracing the townlands.

In Galway I came across one of these as my second sheet, left it and did
another 2 sheets before I felt confident enough to be able to spot all the
boundaries. Once you do make a start, try to aim for the smaller ones
first, or ones through bogs where the townland boundary can be easily seen.

Dave



On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Thanks Patrick for solving the riddle of boundaries through Lough Owel
>
> Scanned Sheets 23-25-NE-Collinstown and 23-25-SE-Killucan are very
> contrasty and it is very difficult to see the dotted lines for townland
> boundaries. Are the originals like this or can they be improved with a
> rescan?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
> ___
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[OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Brian Prangle]

Thanks Patrick for solving the riddle of boundaries through Lough Owel

Scanned Sheets 23-25-NE-Collinstown and 23-25-SE-Killucan are very
contrasty and it is very difficult to see the dotted lines for townland
boundaries. Are the originals like this or can they be improved with a
rescan?

Regards

Brian
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Patrick Matthews]

It's a barony boundary - baronies include open water like lakes and large
rivers whereas townlands generally only go as far as the foreshore and
don't include parts of the lake (certainly not the larger lakes or larger
rivers, although the dotted lines indicating townland boundaries will run
through smaller lakes or rivers.

Civil parish boundaries aren't shown on post-1898 maps except within urban
districts and boroughs. You have an issue where townlands are divided
between civil parishes - if the two parts of the townland were in different
DEDs then the boundary continues to be shown (there are a number of
examples in Wexford where you have two adjacent townlands with the same
name but with (E,D. X) and (E.D. Y) as suffixes. If the two parts of the
townland were in the same DED then there is no indication on the map,
although the 1911 Census reports will still list them separately. (You can
also have "false positives" - there are two townlands in east Cavan called
Corravilla, one in Shercock parish and the other in Knockbride parish,
which are distinct and have different postal addresses but which happen to
fall in the same DED and so are marked as "Corravilla" and "Part of
Corravilla".)


On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Donal Diamond 
wrote:

> On UCD site: http://libguides.ucd.ie/findingmaps/mapscalesandsymbols
>
> There's a link to pdf of map legend:
>
> http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/Support15.pdf
>
> D
>
>
>
> On 14 October 2014 10:51, Donal Diamond  wrote:
>
> > Hiya,
> >
> > To help us find the location quicker please include a link when you want
> > someone to look at the map :
> >
> >
> >
> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=15&lat=53.56421&lon=-7.37603&layers=000B0T
> >
> > That line is dashed so is probably a barony or civil parish boundary.
> > We'll get to those later ;-)
> >
> > D
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14 October 2014 10:41, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> >
> >> Part of ... instances I shall eventually follow Paddy Matthews
> suggestion
> >> of treating the parts as  outers of the same multipolygon. (I've named
> >> Part of Walshestown North which is one triangular field for the time
> being
> >> being unitl I get round to Walshestown North itself)
> >>
> >> x or y instances I shall just copy exactly what's on the original map
> >> until
> >> a consensus is arrived at
> >>
> >> New problem . Lough Owel just to the North of Mullingar has
> boundaries
> >> running through it and all along its shores which suggest the Lough is 3
> >> townlands but none of them are named. Do I add the boundaries and leave
> >> the
> >> names blank or just leave it - I don't know enough about townlands to
> know
> >> if Loughs were covered or not
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> ___
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> >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Donal Diamond]

On UCD site: http://libguides.ucd.ie/findingmaps/mapscalesandsymbols

There's a link to pdf of map legend:

http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/Support15.pdf

D



On 14 October 2014 10:51, Donal Diamond  wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> To help us find the location quicker please include a link when you want
> someone to look at the map :
>
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=15&lat=53.56421&lon=-7.37603&layers=000B0T
>
> That line is dashed so is probably a barony or civil parish boundary.
> We'll get to those later ;-)
>
> D
>
>
>
>
> On 14 October 2014 10:41, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
>> Part of ... instances I shall eventually follow Paddy Matthews suggestion
>> of treating the parts as  outers of the same multipolygon. (I've named
>> Part of Walshestown North which is one triangular field for the time being
>> being unitl I get round to Walshestown North itself)
>>
>> x or y instances I shall just copy exactly what's on the original map
>> until
>> a consensus is arrived at
>>
>> New problem . Lough Owel just to the North of Mullingar has boundaries
>> running through it and all along its shores which suggest the Lough is 3
>> townlands but none of them are named. Do I add the boundaries and leave
>> the
>> names blank or just leave it - I don't know enough about townlands to know
>> if Loughs were covered or not
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Donal Diamond]

Hiya,

To help us find the location quicker please include a link when you want
someone to look at the map :

http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=15&lat=53.56421&lon=-7.37603&layers=000B0T

That line is dashed so is probably a barony or civil parish boundary.
We'll get to those later ;-)

D




On 14 October 2014 10:41, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Part of ... instances I shall eventually follow Paddy Matthews suggestion
> of treating the parts as  outers of the same multipolygon. (I've named
> Part of Walshestown North which is one triangular field for the time being
> being unitl I get round to Walshestown North itself)
>
> x or y instances I shall just copy exactly what's on the original map until
> a consensus is arrived at
>
> New problem . Lough Owel just to the North of Mullingar has boundaries
> running through it and all along its shores which suggest the Lough is 3
> townlands but none of them are named. Do I add the boundaries and leave the
> names blank or just leave it - I don't know enough about townlands to know
> if Loughs were covered or not
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
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[OSM-talk-ie] Townland Boundaries

[Brian Prangle]

Part of ... instances I shall eventually follow Paddy Matthews suggestion
of treating the parts as  outers of the same multipolygon. (I've named
Part of Walshestown North which is one triangular field for the time being
being unitl I get round to Walshestown North itself)

x or y instances I shall just copy exactly what's on the original map until
a consensus is arrived at

New problem . Lough Owel just to the North of Mullingar has boundaries
running through it and all along its shores which suggest the Lough is 3
townlands but none of them are named. Do I add the boundaries and leave the
names blank or just leave it - I don't know enough about townlands to know
if Loughs were covered or not

Regards

Brian
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