Re: [talk-au] Response regarding use of PSMA Administrative Boundaries (Australia)

[Andrew Davidson]

Just a gentle reminder that there is a list of steps that you have to go 
through before you start importing data into OSM*:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

*Yeap I realise I'm being a terrible hypocrite here. I think we managed 
to achieve two out of the five steps required with the NSW LPI import. 
Turns out that not planning an import does result in a not insignificant 
level of PITA. Which is why I was hoping to avoid this in the future.


On 10/7/16 16:18, Reuben wrote:


On 10/07/16 14:06, cleary wrote:

Feedback from the legal-talk list is that the reply from the Department
of Prime Minister and Cabinet is not sufficient and therefore we cannot
use PSMA datasets in OSM.

As far as I can ascertain, the lines on the Contributors page of the
wiki, referring to PSMA boundaries, were added by a user named Reubot a
little over three months ago. However a search for this user returned a
result that there was no user of this name -  I'm not sure how that
works and someone else may understand how this could be so. This user
also added Brisbane City Council as a source in the Contributors page so
someone may wish to check if that data is actually permitted in OSM
either.  I'm not sure how much data was actually added to OSM from PSMA
by this user or anyone else.



Sorry about that, I was under the impression that it was covered by the
data.gov.au permission. I only added Brisbane and Redlands and am now in
the process of undoing. I have sent an email to QLD Department of
Natural Resources and Mines to asking for explicit permission to use
their (boundary) datasets instead.

The Brisbane City Council data should be good as I got explicit permission:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.brisbane.qld.gov.au_explicit_permission


Reuben

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Re: [talk-au] Response regarding use of PSMA Administrative Boundaries (Australia)

[cleary]

Reuben. Thanks for your response and clarification. Hopefully your
request to Queensland Government Department will be fruitful.


On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 04:18 PM, Reuben wrote:
> 
> On 10/07/16 14:06, cleary wrote:
> > Feedback from the legal-talk list is that the reply from the Department
> > of Prime Minister and Cabinet is not sufficient and therefore we cannot
> > use PSMA datasets in OSM.
> >
> > As far as I can ascertain, the lines on the Contributors page of the
> > wiki, referring to PSMA boundaries, were added by a user named Reubot a
> > little over three months ago. However a search for this user returned a
> > result that there was no user of this name -  I'm not sure how that
> > works and someone else may understand how this could be so. This user
> > also added Brisbane City Council as a source in the Contributors page so
> > someone may wish to check if that data is actually permitted in OSM
> > either.  I'm not sure how much data was actually added to OSM from PSMA
> > by this user or anyone else.
> >
> >
> Sorry about that, I was under the impression that it was covered by the 
> data.gov.au permission. I only added Brisbane and Redlands and am now in 
> the process of undoing. I have sent an email to QLD Department of 
> Natural Resources and Mines to asking for explicit permission to use 
> their (boundary) datasets instead.
> 
> The Brisbane City Council data should be good as I got explicit
> permission:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.brisbane.qld.gov.au_explicit_permission
>  
> 
> 
> Reuben
> 
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[Talk-br] #RioOlympicsMapping: problemas a pensar solução viável

[Sérgio V .]

Boa noite pessoal.

Sobretudo para os que entendem mais de análise e programação e que 
quiserem/puderem colaborar em encontrar uma solução, mas para todos envolvidos 
ou interessados também:

No andamento da importação de prédios no Rio 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rio_de_Janeiro_(city)/Import_IPP_Buildings),
 foi observado o seguinte problema.

Em diferentes áreas da cidade o material tem apresentado diferentes tipos de 
conflitos.

No trecho Leblon-Ipanema, em que a maioria dos prédios do SHP da prefeitura já 
entra convertido com o OpenData no JOSM como multipolígonos,  apenas poucos 
casos de sobreposição ("self-intersecting" e "building inside building"), de 
todo modo tendo que resolver individualmente, mas mais fáceis pela menor 
quantidade.

Porém em áreas em que a maioria dos prédios (tendo sido convertidos do SHP em 
WGS84 para importação no JOSM com o plugin Opendata), entram como ways em 
polígonos simples ("não multipolígonos"), surge aí o problema de centenas de 
casos de "Building inside building", necessitando todos verificação individual.

Eventualmente a solução possível poderia ser a criação de relação type=building 
(mais detalhes em Relation:building : 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:building#For_3D_modelling).

Parêntese: seria bom se alguém pudesse testar um pequeno trecho (talvez 
baixando o SHP da prefeitura dos dois lados da Ponta de Copacabana, onde foram 
observadas estas diferenças e conflitos) também com outro sistema de conversão 
(talvez ogr2osm) para ver se eventualmente os polígonos ao serem convertidos do 
SHP para importação no JOSM possam entrar com este conflito mais resolvido.

Com este tipo de caso em que aparecem centenas de Building inside building na 
validação.

O PROBLEMA QUE SE COLOCA É:

Existiria algum modo de converter mais ou menos automaticamente as diversas 
partes do mesmo prédio para relação "type=building"?
Ou para separar em layer=1,2,3,etc...?

Isto é, os ways polígonos do "mesmo prédio" (multiplicado por centenas de 
prédios) que seriam colocados em uma mesma relação de type=building. Tendo em 
vista a grande quantidade de prédios que se pretende importar.

O problema é distinguir e selecionar os polígonos em mesma situação 
(basicamente "role=outline" x "role=part") em grande quantidade de objetos.

Um caminho possível neste sentido seria talvez através de algum tipo de 
"análise simultânea ou sequencial" de "overlapping" e "valores de área" (talvez 
no QGIS? ou outro?), para se distinguir o maior polígono externo (ou talvez 
através de "cálculo dos valores" de ele=* eheight=*, pois em geral a maior área 
está no menor nível) e sua respectiva "seleção", para que a área externa maior 
possa receber as tags role=outline ebuilding=yes, devendo os demais ways 
restantes (invertendo a seleção) etiquetados como role=part e 
building:part=yes), e sendo criada entre estes e o membro com role=outline uma 
relação de type=building.

Para resolver o conflito de "Building inside building".

A mesma coisa seria no caso de se optar por separação em layer=1,2,3,etc...

Ou se alguém tiver outra solução.

Saudações gerais,

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio / user:smaprs
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

[Jérôme Amagat]

la relation que l'on voit là :
http://scigrid.de/posts/2015-Jul-02_power-relations-in-openstreetmap.html
ça ressemble beaucoup aux relations utilisées pour matérialiser une ligne
de bus ou plutôt une ligne de metro (peu d'intercection), il y a des
arrêts, les substastions et des morceaux de route (les line) pour aller de
l'un à l'autre. ces morceaux de route peuvent servir pour plusieurs
relations.

Par contre, je viens de regarder comment c'est fait pour le chemin de fer.
il y a des relations type=route route=train qui représentent les lignes
train, avec le trajet du train et ses arrêts comme pour les bus , métro...
Et il y a aussi les relations type=route route=railway qui représentent
plutôt les ligne du point de vue des rails avec un nom du type "ligne de
truc à machin" et un ref. ça ressemble beaucoup a ce qu'on dit qu'il faut
pas faire avec les routes départementales. (par contre j'ai pas
l'impression, avec 3 exemple :P, qu'il y ai des doublons info sur le way et
sur la relation)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Éric Gillet 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> OSM contributions must follow the Contributor Terms
> ; these
> therms are being shown to new users and they must explicitely accept them
> before they can start contributing.
>
> However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG :
> the Automated edits code of conduct
> 
>  (AECoC).
>
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
>
>- Are not shown to new contributors
>- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
>- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
>- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
>contributors (history
>
> 
>)
>
> Like the Contributor terms, the AECoC is enforced by the DWG and can cause
> reverts by its members, on terms that have not been accepted by
> contributors.
>
> As such, I think that the AECoc in its current form should not serve as a
> basis for reversal of changesets by the DWG.
>
> If it were to, I think it should be put to an higher set of standards than
> the changeset it aims to direct. For example it could be audited with an
> RFC, then a vote, and finally being explicitely accepted by contributors.
>
> What are your thoughts ?
>

The comparison between the Contributor Terms and AECoC is unfair.

The Contributor Terms is a legal requirement. Users need to *explicitly*
agree to the Contributor Terms in order to avoid legal issues and avoid
breaking the law (such as adding data from copyrighted sources without the
necessary license and permission).

On the other hand, the AECoC is a community guideline. If you break it,
there are no legal issues. So there is no legal requirement that guidelines
have to be accepted by every user.

But should the AECoC be *explicitly* accepted/voted on by users outside of
legal requirements? It may be a nice to have that, but the AECoC has been
existing since 2008, and was borne out of frustrations by a lot of users
then about people making quick, wholesale changes (i.e., automated) without
discussing them first. The fact that this guideline has been existing that
long and with no major opposition to them existing in the first place (well
some may quibble on a particular provision or two) effectively makes them a
guideline by consensus. I don't agree that new users have to continually
"ratify" this guideline.

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Automated edits code of conduct

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/11/2016 02:02 AM, Éric Gillet wrote:
> If you do a search-and-replace on 20 elements and review manually the
> change, it is covered under the AE CoC.

No, the document clearly states in the "Scope" section:

"use of find-and-replace functionality using a standard editor such as
JOSM or finding using services such as Overpass API and changing without
reviewing cases individually;"

Sadly, we often have people who run search-and-replace operations and
*claim* that they have "reviewed cases individually", and then if you
look at their edit, they have changed a tag on a POI that sits in the
middle of a road or so - which means that they were either lying, or
they have only done a very, very cursory "manual review" of their change.

An automated, or mechanical, edit is when you do not look at the
individual object you're editing.

There is no similar policy covering manual edits. But of course if
someone *manually* changes 500 landuse=wood to landuse=forest across the
planet, it is still possible that they make a mistake and it needs
fixing in some way, or if they do it repeatedly and cause problems with
it, they might still be blocked. This is not a court system; DWG doesn't
need a law on the Wiki to take action against someone who causes
trouble. However, causing trouble through manual edits is so much less
frequent than causing trouble with mechanical edits that we have written
up a policy on the latter.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Éric Gillet]

Hi Michael,

2016-07-11 0:08 GMT+02:00 Michael Reichert :

> Hi Éric,
>
> Am 10.07.2016 um 23:26 schrieb Éric Gillet:
> > In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> >- Are not shown to new contributors
>
> It is shown to new contributors, not directly but they get informed. If
> you create an account, you will see a welcome page after clicking on the
> confirmation link which you get via email. This page explains basic
> things like the data model (node, way, relation) and says that there are
> special rules for imports and mechanical edits.
>

You're right, I just noticed that they indeed are, but a lot less
prominently as the Contributor Terms (and doesn't require acceptance)

>
> >- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
> >- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
>
> There are dozens of other rules which have neither been voted nor being
> accepted by every contributor. Just have a look at Good_Practice at OSM
> wiki. None of those items has been voted. They are basic rules.
>

Of course, however those rules are not enforced by the DWG.


>
> The Contributor Terms are a replacement for the former CC-BY-SA license
> all contributors granted (to everyone directly). Nowadays OSMF
> "collects" all these rights using a contract called Contributor Terms.
>
> >- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
> >contributors (history
> ><
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct==500=history
> >
> >)
>
> Did you have a look at the mailing list archives of the time when this
> policy was written (+-6 months)?
>

I believe that just like the tagging process, the discussion leading to the
establishment of those rules should be open and not require digging through
an 8 years-old mailing list.


>
> Both Import Guidelines and Automated Edits Code of Conduct are
> guidelines which will reduce the likelihood that your import/mechanical
> edit gets reverted.
>

This is only the stated goal of the AE CoC. Following that wiki page means
that the changeset can't be reversed on basis of this wiki page, no more.
I think  that this page should encourage mapping good data ©, not be as
broad as possible in order to become a justification when someone want to
revert a changeset.


> We don't have a Don't Delete Everything Policy. Nevertheless, we revert
> vandalism (if we discover it).
>

But what is vandalism ?
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[OSM-talk] Fwd: Automated edits code of conduct

[Éric Gillet]

2016-07-10 23:56 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :

> On Sunday 10 July 2016, Éric Gillet wrote:
> >
> > In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> >
> >- Are not shown to new contributors
> >- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
>
> Maybe that is because they don't apply to the vast majority of
> contributors.  You don't need to accept the automated edit rules to
> contribute to OSM as long as you don't do automated edits.
>

If you do a search-and-replace on 20 elements and review manually the
change, it is covered under the AE CoC. I don't think of that as an
advanced or uncommon task.


>
> >- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
> >- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
> >contributors (history
>
> Doesn't this also apply for the Contributor Terms?
>

Yes, it does. But it's mainly the combination of these points that is
problematic.

>
> Remember OSM is largely a do-ocracy - those who put work into developing
> the rules have a significant influence on their content.


It shouldn't forbid to re-evaluate them.

This does not
> make them illegitimate.


This doesn't make them legitimate either.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/11/2016 01:23 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> My main issue with the AEcoc is that it is nearly impossible to comply
> with, especially the part that says that community consensus is
> necessary (or rather, "said", because this requirement seems to have
> been silently removed).

Which part has been removed and by whom?

The December 2014 version says:

"If you plan to make an automated edit, outline it beforehand and
discuss it on a suitable mailing list ... We do not require or recommend
a formal vote, but if there is significant objection to your plan - and
even minorities may be significant! - then change it or drop it altogether."

and

"OpenStreetMap is very much built on consensus. A majority of voices on
a mailing list does not give you the right to do whatever you please to
the data created by the minority. ..."

The current version says:

"If you plan to make any automated edit, you should discuss and document
your plans beforehand. Documentation should be placed on the wiki and
the proposal should then be discussed them on a suitable Mailing lists: ..."

and

"OpenStreetMap is built on consensus, rather than a majority voting and
you should therefor be sensitive to proceeding with major changes even
where the great majority support the change."

There might be a potential misunderstanding here; some people seem to
believe that the policies outlined in the Wiki are some kind of "law"
and that if you comply with it, you are always "right". (Wikipedia tends
to run into a "lawyering" problem with this - they have policies, they
call somebody out for doing something stupid, and the person then says
"but I have followed all the policies, you cannot do anything, ha ha!".
This is great fun for those who do stupid things and have a lot of time
to conduct procedural discussions, and a great nuisance for everybody
else in the project.)

In reality, the automated edititing rules are general guidelines set up
to minimize problems but you can follow them and *still* cause problems
(a fact that is mentioned in the document: "If you have followed this
policy then this means your account will not be blocked right away when
someone complains, but you might still have to change or stop what
you're doing if people dislike your actions and / or their side-effects.")

You might say that the whole document is just a more wordy version of
"if your edit pisses people off, you'll get into trouble".

> Could you point me to a single worldwide mechanical edit that
> satisfies the AEcoc guidelines?

I can't but then we don't track them at DWG - we don't grant
permissions, we only act when we either hear complaints, or see faulty
(or otherwise problematic) edits ourselves. Haven't you done something
about musical instruments once? IIRC there was a bit of an issue with
you asking for a "vote" on the issue, thereby making it sound as if 51%
were enough to carry such an edit... but you did run it in the end,
didn't you?

Personally, I think that world-wide mechanical edits should be the
absolute exception since it becomes more and more difficult to engage
the world-wide community in a discussion; the danger of causing problems
in a far-off corner of OSM with an automated edit is just too big.
Having said that, if someone makes a world-wide edit that they discuss
on the talk or tagging lists before and that are ok with everyone (or
almost everyone) there, they have at least shown diligence and a will to
do it right. If they run their edit and then someone from Peru
complains, they might still need to revert or fix it, but at least
they're not the lone-wolf guy who didn't care what others think and DWG
will certainly treat someone who tried to do it right but failed
differently from someone who didn't even try!

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-is] Hvernig fá betri nákvæmni með GPS (tiltölulega ódýrt)

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

Ég er með Garmin Virb Elite, action cam með Garmin GPS innbyggðu 
(munurinn á Virb og Virb Elite er GPSið). Það gefur mér GPX skrá (ef ég 
er að nota video) eða GPS-taggaðar ljósmyndir (ef ekki video).


Það er hægt að tengja það við gemsann en eiginlega bara í þá átt að 
síminn stjórni myndavélinni. Mér gefst best að fara nógu hægt bara, 15 
km á hjólinu er að skila fínum punktum sýnist mér.


Það er til listi yfir sér GPS-tæki á 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_device_reviews


Þann 10.7.2016 23:12, skrifaði Morten Lange:

Sæl


Hvernig er best að auka nákvæmni þegar maður fer eftir slóða og stiga sem maður 
vill bæta inn á OSM, gefið að maður ætlar ekki að gerast atvinnumaður í þessu 
og ætlar að nota hagkvæm tæki ?


Mér dettur í hug :

* Biða eftir "fix"
* Færa sér hægt eftir leiðinni og athuga hvað tækið segir um nákvæmni ef 
sérstaklega mikilvægt er að hafa punktana nákvæma, eða maður er milli húsa, í 
þröngum dal eða undir tré.

* Fá sér tæki sem maður getur fest efst á bakpoka eða álíka, og er nákvæmri en GPS í 
síma. Sér GPS tæki eða "hjálpartæki" fyrir síma/spjaldtölvu/tölvu



Hefur einhver hér reynslu af blátannatengd aukatæki / viðtæki ?


Til dæmis þessi :
Portable GPS Receiver GPS Comparison

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/Aviation-GPS/Bluetooth-GPS.asp
Portable GPS Receiver GPS Comparison
Compare Leading Portable GPS Bluetooth Puck Receiver Units from Dual, Bad Elf, 
and Garmin.
View on www.mypilotstore.com Preview by Yahoo
   

  




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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 11 July 2016 at 01:08, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> The automated edits code of conduct is there for a reason; had user
> Test360 complied with it, then his edit would likely not have been
> faulty

My main issue with the AEcoc is that it is nearly impossible to comply
with, especially the part that says that community consensus is
necessary (or rather, "said", because this requirement seems to have
been silently removed).

Could you point me to a single worldwide mechanical edit that
satisfies the AEcoc guidelines?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 July 2016 at 23:26, Éric Gillet  wrote:
> What are your thoughts ?

I fully agree with all your points. I think a wider community
discussion on the current guidelines is necessary.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 10 lug 2016, alle ore 22:35, Cristian Consonni 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> io non voglio vivere
> in un mondo in cui si finisce in tribunale "direttamente e senza
> passare dal via" per una violazione di copyright. Personalmente
> preferirei un mondo con "un po' meno copyright" quindi non è questione
> di linea dura o meno, è questione del fatto che io voglio che il
> copyright sia rispettato, ma non penso che bisogna intervenire con la
> scure.


dipende con chi stiamo trattando, se si tratta di un grande multinazionale con 
proprio dipartimento legale, penso dovremmo diventare più duri, perché sono 
loro i primi ad insistere nel copyright, mentre con tutto il resto dobbiamo 
avere pazienza e clemenza senza però mai cedere nel chiedere il pieno rispetto 
della licenza.

Il problema del solo volere del rispetto del copyright è che poi "i cattivi" si 
approfittano  se non sei predisposto a richiedere formalmente che la legge/il 
contratto venga rispettata. 

Il copyright bisogna difendere, è un compito con cui noi abbiamo incaricato la 
OSMF al momento che abbiamo concesso i diritti di diffusione ecc. della nostra 
mappatura alla OSMF.

ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/10/2016 11:26 PM, Éric Gillet wrote:
> However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG
> : the Automated edits code of conduct

This whole discussion seems to have its origin in this changeset:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27888534

Where - for the umpteenth time - someone thought it was a good idea to
replace landuse=forest with landuse=wood world-wide, without looking at
individual cases and motivations.

The user was contacted http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27656417
but insisted that his mass edit was generally ok (while acknowledging a
small mistake regarding deciduous/broad-leved). His edits were then
reverted.

Because his edits stretched over several days and changesets, and
because the changeset comments contained no hint at whether or not the
particular changeset did contain this kind of un-discussed mechanical
edits, the DWG member executing the revert - that was me - only did a
cursory inspection and in doing so, reverted a few changesets that were
*not* mechanical edits.

(This was not the first time the user had been called out for
ill-conceived mass edits; he first came to DWG's attention because a US
mapper complained about http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27644435
which makes world-wide changes to some natural=water objects.)

The user was unhappy, but my reaction was the verbal equivalent of a
shrug; if you make a mechanical edit, refuse to concede that you made a
mistake, and your edit isn't even clearly recognizable then you have to
accept a little collateral damage. DWG has only a finite amount of time
to deal with problems and while it would be great if we could sort
through a problematic changeset or series of changeset and separate the
good from the bad, sometimes the presence of enough bad stuff can lead
to a wholesale revert.

This whole changeset was about a year ago but recently I was contacted
by one user, tuxayo, asking me to concede that mistakes were made
handling that particular revert, and would I please answer the open
questions raised by user Test360. I explained everything I wrote above,
but apparently this was not sufficient, as today I received another
message, this time by user gileri, asking me to comment, and now this
thread.

The automated edits code of conduct is there for a reason; had user
Test360 complied with it, then his edit would likely not have been
faulty (e.g. the deciduous/broad-leved mistake), and would not have had
to be reverted. The same is true for user gileri's edit in
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27867757 which, had he discussed
it before, would likely either not have been executed, or at least not
have been executed in a way that drew complaints.

The automated edits code of conduct has been created as a result of DWG
work, where we often have to deal with the detrimental effects of badly
planned, badly executed lone-wolf edits.

This is just one of many rules that have been developed in the
community; some are written, some are unwritten. Take, for example.
changeset comments: While there are recommendations to use good
changeset comments, this is not usually enforced. But if there are
complaints about someone's edits, DWG may occasionally tell them that
they *must* use good changeset comments or we'll block them. Or even
basic rules about respect and politeness; they're not enshrined anywhere
or shown to you before you sign up. We also have import guidelines
(which, by they way, were the reason for another anti-DWG storm in a
French teacup a couple years ago when DWG requested that Cadastre
importers use a separate import account).

Is it *really* a problem that some rules are not shown to people when
they sign up? In my opinion, mass edits are an advanced enough topic
that, if you research it enough, you *will* be pointed to these rules,
or find them in countless answers on help.openstreetmap.org.

I'm all for discussing the rules we have, but I'd like to know what
exactly the problem is. "There has been no vote on these rules" is not
the honest reason for this thread and I refuse to be drawn into an
insincere, endless procedural discussion just because someone has an axe
to grind with DWG.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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[Talk-GB] shop=sports and sport=* rather than shop=sport and sports=*

[Warin]

Hi,

Apparently 'someonelese' wants local discussion on this.


There is documented discussion on the wiki that puts the case and I 
don't feel the need to repeat it here.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dsports


I think using the sport=* tag means you have the same tag for both shops 
and pitches, etc.


Meaning documentation is reduced, and a similar rendering scheme can be 
used.


From https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40537602 for a counter 
argument


"1. As mentioned in my changeset comment, with shops it's common to use 
the format shop=x x=y to expand on the products sold.


2. There's no reason why the values included in the sports key tag on 
sports shop have to be exclusively sports. For example, 
sports=fitness;sport_supplements;bicycle_parts would be valid.


My view is that if you think it's important to include the sport tag in 
these cases, then fine, go ahead and add it,

but that should be in addition to the sports key and not instead.

In general, I agree the tagging conventions in these situations could be 
improved and the sells=* tag might be a way to go about it. (This last 
from my comment about OSM inconsistencies in the tagging conventions!)


--

There were less than 20 uses of sports=* tag worldwide...

A sample of a section of the UK using Overpassturbo for shop=sports and 
sport=* has some 79 uses...



-

There is a clear statement on the wiki. There is a clear majority of 
uses that comply with the wiki.


Are nonconforming tags that can be easily altered to the standard way to 
be left as non conforming?



--

There are less than 20 uses of shop=sport ... but none of them are in 
the UK... they should be shop=sports ...






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Re: [Talk-it] Tag religious_rank=abbey/archabbey

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 09 lug 2016, alle ore 23:22, girarsi_liste 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Quindi chiedo chiarezza a riguardo questo tag, sta a significare che è
> presente un abate/badessa? o cos'altro?



si, abate o arciabate, da aggiungere ai sito delle comunità monastiche.

ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[tuxayo]

On 10/07/2016 23:26, Éric Gillet wrote:
> [...]
> However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG
> : the Automated edits code of conduct
>  (AECoC).
> 
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> 
>   * [...]
>   * Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
>   * [...]

About the question of legitimacy of the AECoC, I have one element to add.

I very recently had a discussion with our co-contributor and DWG member
woodpeck about a revert of 80 changesets from another contributor which
didn't discussed that massive amount of automated work. (which I agree
is an issue and that's not the point of this email)

One of the main topic of the discussion was that among the 80 reverted
changesets there were a handful of non automated ones that therefore
shouldn't have been reverted.
These collateral damage were due to the lack of time to review each
changeset and the fact that many of them didn't have a clear changeset
comment. (I'm not discussing here how hard it was to tell them apart,
that's why I'm not posting the links to the changetsets in question)

I was arguing that the rules for dealing with vandalism and the AECoC
don't state that these trade-offs was acceptable (a quick a inaccurate
summary but that's not the point of this email). And this resulted in
woodpeck editing the AECoC to add a part that would legitimize these
kinds of trade-offs and the resulting collateral damage:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct=revision=1319651=1292124

Which raises huge concerns about the legitimacy of the AECoC and maybe
other parts of the wiki about community rules.

The discussion with woodpeck is still ongoing and he didn't had the time
yet to answer my concerns about that wiki edit. I hope I didn't too much
altered and biased our discussion when summarizing it.
@woodpeck: feel free to correct me. And sorry for posting this before
the end of our discussion but this debate is very close to what I was
planning to post here when we would have finished.


-- 
tuxayo

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Éric,

Am 10.07.2016 um 23:26 schrieb Éric Gillet:
> OSM contributions must follow the Contributor Terms
> ; these
> therms are being shown to new users and they must explicitely accept them
> before they can start contributing.
> 
> However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG :
> the Automated edits code of conduct
> 
>  (AECoC).
> 
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> 
>- Are not shown to new contributors

It is shown to new contributors, not directly but they get informed. If
you create an account, you will see a welcome page after clicking on the
confirmation link which you get via email. This page explains basic
things like the data model (node, way, relation) and says that there are
special rules for imports and mechanical edits.

>- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
>- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"

There are dozens of other rules which have neither been voted nor being
accepted by every contributor. Just have a look at Good_Practice at OSM
wiki. None of those items has been voted. They are basic rules.

The Contributor Terms are a replacement for the former CC-BY-SA license
all contributors granted (to everyone directly). Nowadays OSMF
"collects" all these rights using a contract called Contributor Terms.

>- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
>contributors (history
>
> 
>)

Did you have a look at the mailing list archives of the time when this
policy was written (+-6 months)?

Both Import Guidelines and Automated Edits Code of Conduct are
guidelines which will reduce the likelihood that your import/mechanical
edit gets reverted.

We don't have a Don't Delete Everything Policy. Nevertheless, we revert
vandalism (if we discover it).

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Christoph Hormann]

On Sunday 10 July 2016, Éric Gillet wrote:
>
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
>
>- Are not shown to new contributors
>- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors

Maybe that is because they don't apply to the vast majority of 
contributors.  You don't need to accept the automated edit rules to 
contribute to OSM as long as you don't do automated edits.

>- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
>- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
>contributors (history

Doesn't this also apply for the Contributor Terms?

Remember OSM is largely a do-ocracy - those who put work into developing 
the rules have a significant influence on their content.  This does not 
make them illegitimate.  Both participating in creating and improving 
the rules as well as working on the DWG making sure mappers comply with 
the rules are open to everyone.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] FW: [Talk-GB] Night Time Aerial Imagery?!?

[Andy Robinson]

-Original Message-
From: Grant Slater [mailto:openstreet...@firefishy.com] 
Sent: 10 July 2016 22:45
To: osm-gb
Subject: [Talk-GB] Night Time Aerial Imagery?!?

Hi OSM-GB,

The Environment Agency recently release a massive trove of Open Data, which I 
am slowly started to process.

One of the smaller and quicker to process datasets is the Night Time aerial 
imagery which I've now tiled and put online here:
http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/

Birmingham: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=12=52.4831=-1.8772
Peterborough: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=52.5743=-0.2588
Northhampton: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=52.2458=-0.8871
Swindon: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=51.5793=-1.7931
London (Mostly South):
http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=11=51.5266=-0.0636

Unsure how useful the Night Time aerial imagery is for OpenStreetMap proposes, 
but it sure does look good ;-)

Kind regards,

Grant

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Hakuch]

On 10.07.2016 23:26, Éric Gillet wrote:
> If it were to, I think it should be put to an higher set of standards than
> the changeset it aims to direct. For example it could be audited with an
> RFC, then a vote, and finally being explicitely accepted by contributors.
> 
> What are your thoughts ?

+1, I always like to have more "stable" decisions in our processes


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[Talk-GB] Night Time Aerial Imagery?!?

[Grant Slater]

Hi OSM-GB,

The Environment Agency recently release a massive trove of Open Data,
which I am slowly started to process.

One of the smaller and quicker to process datasets is the Night Time
aerial imagery which I've now tiled and put online here:
http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/

Birmingham: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=12=52.4831=-1.8772
Peterborough: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=52.5743=-0.2588
Northhampton: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=52.2458=-0.8871
Swindon: http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=13=51.5793=-1.7931
London (Mostly South):
http://ea.openstreetmap.org.uk/#zoom=11=51.5266=-0.0636

Unsure how useful the Night Time aerial imagery is for OpenStreetMap
proposes, but it sure does look good ;-)

Kind regards,

Grant

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[OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Éric Gillet]

Hello,

OSM contributions must follow the Contributor Terms
; these
therms are being shown to new users and they must explicitely accept them
before they can start contributing.

However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG :
the Automated edits code of conduct

 (AECoC).

In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :

   - Are not shown to new contributors
   - Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
   - Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
   - Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
   contributors (history
   

   )

Like the Contributor terms, the AECoC is enforced by the DWG and can cause
reverts by its members, on terms that have not been accepted by
contributors.

As such, I think that the AECoc in its current form should not serve as a
basis for reversal of changesets by the DWG.

If it were to, I think it should be put to an higher set of standards than
the changeset it aims to direct. For example it could be audited with an
RFC, then a vote, and finally being explicitely accepted by contributors.

What are your thoughts ?

--
Éric
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Elena ``of Valhalla'']

On 2016-07-10 at 22:35:46 +0200, Cristian Consonni wrote:
> Personalmente
> preferirei un mondo con "un po' meno copyright" quindi non è questione
> di linea dura o meno, è questione del fatto che io voglio che il
> copyright sia rispettato, ma non penso che bisogna intervenire con la
> scure.

e a proposito di metodi per trattare violazione di copyleft, consiglio
di leggere:

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.html

-- 
Elena ``of Valhalla''

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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] August Meetup

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

Which Saturady is best for everyone?  I can't make 13th, all the rest are
OK. Remember we're going to Pershore to map as much of WR10 as possible for
mappa mercia's 10th anniversary.  Perhaps we should make the whole of
August a local mini-project for WR10?

Regards

Brian
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Cristian Consonni]

Ciao,

Il 10 luglio 2016 21:28, Martin Koppenhoefer 
ha scritto:
> Però nel caso di OSM non si fa proprio mai niente, a prescindere di scrivere 
> lettere, oppure avete mai sentito di un processo o simile? Possibile che 
> tutti quelli che infrangono poi smettono? La policy della OSMF  è sempre 
> soft, e le comunicazioni e tempi di risposta con chi infrange sono spesso  
> lenti.

Woah, Martin, frena!
Premesso che non sono "anti-copyright" (anzi!), io non voglio vivere
in un mondo in cui si finisce in tribunale "direttamente e senza
passare dal via" per una violazione di copyright. Personalmente
preferirei un mondo con "un po' meno copyright" quindi non è questione
di linea dura o meno, è questione del fatto che io voglio che il
copyright sia rispettato, ma non penso che bisogna intervenire con la
scure.

Ciao,

C

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Re: [Talk-us] Map spam

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/10/2016 09:45 PM, Mike N wrote:
> I have seen a number of these - at first there was some app generating
> invalid OSM tags, but excellent geolocation (to OSM standards, center of
> main business building). 

Side note on "we place you on the map" businesses - they often don't
have first-hand knowledge about their client's location so will place
the node exactly where some geocoding engine says the address should be
- which is usually not desirable:

Either the geolocation engine is Google etc. in which case data is added
to OSM in violation of Google's terms,

or the geolocation engine is Nominatim which will, in the US, often rely
on imperfect TIGER house numbers or interpolation lines, and when such
an imprecise match is converted into a node with addr:* tags we have an
illusion of precision that doesn't hold.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

[François Lacombe]

Bonsoir JB

Le 10 juillet 2016 à 20:40, JB  a écrit :

>
> TLDR : mauvaise foi ou aveuglement ? De moi, ou des autres ?
>

Ni l'un ni l'autre, on est juste pas d'accord sur certaines idées.
On devrait arriver à s'en remettre, tu ne crois pas ?

Chacun a bien donné son point de vue, si sa peut aider topographe fou dans
sa réflexion c'est tant mieux (bon courage !)

François
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Re: [Talk-us] Map spam

[Mike N]

On 7/10/2016 3:30 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:

It is just not that big of a problem.  I am weirdly impressed by the odd combination of 
"quite well-formed data tagging, yet I can still (nearly always) determine that the 
node is spam."  In other words, they are trying hard to fly in under our radar, but 
we (experienced OSM editors, AND the DWG's diligence) have pretty good radar.


I have seen a number of these - at first there was some app generating 
invalid OSM tags, but excellent geolocation (to OSM standards, center of 
main business building).Then a handful recently with correct OSM 
tags and excellent geolocaction.   In some cases I add further detail 
such as driveways, improving surrounding roads, perhaps adding a building.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 10/07/2016 à 20:40, JB - jb...@mailoo.org a écrit :

Aller, c'était bien trop long pour ce soir, je vais dormir dessus et 
ne pas reparler des autres sujets abordés qui m'ont aussi fait sauter 
au plafond.
Oui, KISS ou vous finirez par ne plus pouvoir recruter de 
contributeurs dans le projet,

JB.
Ça permet de faire court : +1 (sauf que côté mauvaise foi je ne me 
prononce pas)
JB, au final dans la synthèse il n'est plus question de virer les tags 
des chemins.


Tant que les outils ne seront pas simples pour l'utilisateur lambda en 
ce qui concerne les relations, évitons d'en mettre quand ce n'est pas 
nécessaire.


Jean-Yvon
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Re: [Talk-de] Skandal! Skulptur im Park ohne rollstuhlgerechte Toilette!

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 09 lug 2016, alle ore 23:52, Tom Pfeifer  
> ha scritto:
> 
> insbesondere da der fehlerhafte
> Key nun auch von anderen Mappern übernommen wird.


dann ist es nach der OSM Theorie nicht mehr fehlerhaft sondern lediglich eine 
alternative Art zu taggen ;-)
Ich bin auch für einen mechanischen edit.

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-us] Map spam

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

> Circa 07/10/2016 08:28 PM, Jack Burke  and Frederik Ramm 
>  wrote:
>> Is anyone else starting to see map spam popping up in their areas?
and
> DWG here. We see lots, but not to a degree that would concern us.

Thank you to Jack for bringing this up and thank you to Frederik for a very 
informative reply.

I have seen perhaps a handful or two of these in my seven+ years in OSM, 
largely in the greater Los Angeles area or other dense urban areas. I do 
exactly as Frederik suggests (try to contact, and if no reply, which is always 
the case, delete the node).  Yes, this is quite minor (I find perhaps one a 
year in rather heavy OSM editing), but it is "there."  It is just not that big 
of a problem.  I am weirdly impressed by the odd combination of "quite 
well-formed data tagging, yet I can still (nearly always) determine that the 
node is spam."  In other words, they are trying hard to fly in under our radar, 
but we (experienced OSM editors, AND the DWG's diligence) have pretty good 
radar.

So, good discussion, everybody, thank you to all concerned for airing this more 
publicly.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 10 lug 2016, alle ore 16:01, Andrea Lattmann 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Voglio vedere se non fanno qualche cosa.


sono obbligati, ma è infatti la linea dura, se si riesce ad alzare meno polvere 
sarebbe meglio ;-)

Però nel caso di OSM non si fa proprio mai niente, a prescindere di scrivere 
lettere, oppure avete mai sentito di un processo o simile? Possibile che tutti 
quelli che infrangono poi smettono? La policy della OSMF  è sempre soft, e le 
comunicazioni e tempi di risposta con chi infrange sono spesso  lenti.

ciao,
Martin 


ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-us] Map spam

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/10/2016 08:28 PM, Jack Burke wrote:
> Is anyone else starting to see map spam popping up in their areas?

DWG here. We see lots, but not to a degree that would concern us.
Occasionally individual IP numbers from Asia were blocked for signups
because they would create account after account just to add one POI. We
still have some low-volume background noise of spammy node additions
(http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/hei for examples) that seem to be
orchestrated in some way, but apparently not through sweat shops in
low-wage countries but rather using software that runs on the Internet
connection of whoever buys the software.

The individual business owner adding their own business in good faith is
of course something we want to encourage, so before you delete something
as spam, try to (as you have) make double sure that it is not just a
bumbling newbie; when in doubt, try to raise them via a changeset
discussion entry ("Hey, welcome to OSM, I see you have tried to add your
business here but it seems you placed it bang in the middle of a
residential neighbourhood, can I help you fix that"). If they don't
reply, delete the data; if continue adding rubbish data without
replying, report them to DWG at d...@osmfoundation.org for a dressing-down.

> Specifically, what I'm finding is a well-formed node for a small
> business, complete with phone number and (on 2 of them) websites. 

Web-only businesses (that are run from someone's living room who doesn't
want customers to ring his doorbell) don't have a geographic footprint
and hence don't belong in OSM.

> Because the entry was so well-formed, I'm going to assume that the
> person is familiar with OSM and the account was created specifically to
> make this one entry.  Also, because it was a single node in an otherwise
> mostly-complete area, I'm going to assume that the person made a
> reasonable guess that the node wouldn't be noticed.

You're likely over-estimating their thought process.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

[JB]

Le 10/07/2016 à 19:23, François Lacombe a écrit :


Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai donné l'exemple... les relations se
cassent très facilement et si on ne jardine pas en permanence se
baser uniquement dessus n'est malheureusement pas fiable.


Il y a pourtant tous les contours de communes qui sont décris comme ça.
Personne ne serait d'accord pour indiquer le nom de chaque commune sur 
les tronçons de limite pour utiliser une requête overpass de la même 
manière.


TLDR : mauvaise foi ou aveuglement ? De moi, ou des autres ?

Salut François, et la liste,
Autant, je suis régulièrement d'accord avec toi sur les modèles pour les 
lignes électriques, autant, je trouve que tu accumules la mauvaise foi 
sur ce sujet, en essayant de coller ton schéma électrique sur les routes 
pour automobiles.
Pour le vraiment mauvaise foi : comparer un multipolygone administratif 
et une route (pour automobiles). Franchement, entre un objet qu'il 
serait encore plus tordu de modéliser autrement que par un MP et que les 
débutant n'iront pas trop trifouiller ; et une route, objet concret, 
visible, compréhensible matériellement, tu veux vraiment y coller la 
même méthodologie ? (Je propose de ne pas revenir ici sur la comparaison 
route avec un ref=D* et les itinéraires d'autobus, que je trouve du même 
acabit).
La logique relationnelle que tu appliques aux lignes électriques me 
semble compréhensible pour plusieurs raisons : réseau cohérent, à grande 
échelle, facilement modélisable intellectuellement, peu touché par des 
débutants ou avec peu de risques de dégâts (ajouts de pylônes, affinage 
de la géométrie). Pour la voirie, ça reste un sujet qui devrait être 
abordable pour tous dès la première approche d'OSM. Est-ce qu'on veut 
vraiment déplacer le tag highway dans une relation ? J'espère que non, 
et pour moi, les autres tags non plus.
Et pour l'analyse de la discussion, puisque pas grand monde n'ose mettre 
les pieds dans le plat, je m'y colle : je propose un modèle, tout le 
monde (sauf si j'ai raté quelqu'un) dit que name=Route Départementale 
n'est pas valable, et je le conserve dans la synthèse finale, c'est de 
l'aveuglement aussi ?
Aller, c'était bien trop long pour ce soir, je vais dormir dessus et ne 
pas reparler des autres sujets abordés qui m'ont aussi fait sauter au 
plafond.
Oui, KISS ou vous finirez par ne plus pouvoir recruter de contributeurs 
dans le projet,

JB.
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[Talk-us] Map spam

[Jack Burke]

Is anyone else starting to see map spam popping up in their areas?

Over the past few months, I've seen 3 OSM entries that I'm calling map spam
for lack of a better term.  I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but it
could be a new trend.

Specifically, what I'm finding is a well-formed node for a small business,
complete with phone number and (on 2 of them) websites.  The problem is
that the node is miles away from the address in question.  I didn't
investigate or document the first couple of them too well, but the most
recent one that I found today was by a user who has exactly 1 edit (the
spam one), and the user account's comment is the URL for the business,
too.  The *name* of the user doesn't match the county's property owner
records.

Because the entry was so well-formed, I'm going to assume that the person
is familiar with OSM and the account was created specifically to make this
one entry.  Also, because it was a single node in an otherwise
mostly-complete area, I'm going to assume that the person made a reasonable
guess that the node wouldn't be noticed.  I'm also going to guess that the
person in question runs some sort of "get your business listed on 100's of
websites!" thing and this is one way he gets that done (by adding it to
OSM, it also gets added to Where2GetIt and all of the other sites that use
OSM data).

I deleted the node.

My reasons for the deletion are:
1) The address is in a residential neighborhood.  I am going to _assume_
that were I to drive by it (which I might be able to do next weekend), I
will not see any signage for the business at the address.
2) The business website does not have that address (or ANY address)
anywhere on it.
3) The node was well out-of-location for the contained address.
4) The user account appears to be nothing more than a spam account, since
it has only the one edit and the URL of the business.

The node in question is:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3787125448/history


So I pose this to the assembled horde:

Has anyone else noticed random spammy nodes in their area?  Does anyone
disagree with my reasoning or actions?  And if not, is there a standard
process for reporting suspected spam user accounts?

Regards,
Jack
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Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Sun, 2016-07-10 at 12:07 -0400, Kevin Morgan wrote:
> Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag
> use the following format  name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag
> if the information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the
> following sub tags color, icon, description, direction and text. The
> text sub tag is used to add additional text that is not a part of the
> name or ref. For example the city a road way leads to often include on
> a road sign. Description is for descriptive information that needs to
> be interpreted by a person rather map generation software. Direction
> is north,south, east,west. 

I would prefer signed:name, signed:ref, signed:icon, signed:destination,
signed:text. This is much more flexible than a tag that has three
components that must be supplied in order.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


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Re: [Talk-ar] estaciones de servicio en una ruta

[Matias Montroull]

Si eso es una opción pero no te confies porque si te jugas en algun tramo
largo a llegar a una est de servicio para cargar y por esas casualidades no
tienen combustibles estas en problemas..
Para esos viajes donde tenes est de serv en tramos largos mi recomendación
es q cargues donde puedas asi tengas 3/4 de tanque lleno, completalo y
seguis... no perdes nada y ganas mucho.

Matias
On Jul 10, 2016 1:56 PM, "Agustin Rissoli"  wrote:

Lo podés hacer con OsmAnd, tiene una opción que te muestra POIS cercanos,
lo podés configurar para que te anuncie estaciones de servicio durante el
ruteo, le podés ajustar la distancia a la ruta.
Y también podés hacer la búsqueda sin estar ruteando, en este caso podés
hacer la búsqueda por tipo de combustible.
El 10/7/2016 9:15,  escribió:

Envíe los mensajes para la lista Talk-ar a
talk-ar@openstreetmap.org

Para subscribirse o anular su subscripción a través de la WEB
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar

O por correo electrónico, enviando un mensaje con el texto "help" en
el asunto (subject) o en el cuerpo a:
talk-ar-requ...@openstreetmap.org

Puede contactar con el responsable de la lista escribiendo a:
talk-ar-ow...@openstreetmap.org

Si responde a algún contenido de este mensaje, por favor, edite la
linea del asunto (subject) para que el texto sea mas especifico que:
"Re: Contents of Talk-ar digest...". Además, por favor, incluya en la
respuesta sólo aquellas partes del mensaje a las que está
respondiendo.


Asuntos del día:

   1. estaciones de servicio en una ruta (Fernando Toledo)
   2. Re: estaciones de servicio en una ruta (Matias Montroull)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:10:48 -0300
From: Fernando Toledo 
To: Lista talk-ar 
Subject: [Talk-ar] estaciones de servicio en una ruta
Message-ID: <56b7685c-84db-6754-6fad-0b4930050...@docksud.com.ar>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252


Hola Amigos
Les hago una pregunta:

Conocen de algún servicio o sitio web que por ejemplo te liste las
estaciones de servicios que hay a lo largo de una ruta.

Por ejemplo, tengo planeado ir a Puerto Madryn desde Buenos Aires
Y quería saber, que estaciones hay durante el recorrido (obviamente
teniendo en cuenta que podrían estar a un par de kilometros alejado a la
ruta que se va haciendo)

Gracias!
Saludos!
--
Fernando Toledo
Dock Sud BBS
http://bbs.docksud.com.ar
telnet://bbs.docksud.com.ar



--

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:15:20 -0300
From: Matias Montroull 
To: OpenStreetMap Argentina 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ar] estaciones de servicio en una ruta
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Mi recomendación para tu viaje es q donde veas una estacion y tengas medio
tanque pares a cargar..
No conozco servicio alguno q te liste las est de servicio..

Matias
On Jul 9, 2016 2:11 PM, "Fernando Toledo"  wrote:

> Hola Amigos
> Les hago una pregunta:
>
> Conocen de algún servicio o sitio web que por ejemplo te liste las
> estaciones de servicios que hay a lo largo de una ruta.
>
> Por ejemplo, tengo planeado ir a Puerto Madryn desde Buenos Aires
> Y quería saber, que estaciones hay durante el recorrido (obviamente
> teniendo en cuenta que podrían estar a un par de kilometros alejado a la
> ruta que se va haciendo)
>
> Gracias!
> Saludos!
> --
> Fernando Toledo
> Dock Sud BBS
> http://bbs.docksud.com.ar
> telnet://bbs.docksud.com.ar
>
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>
 próxima parte 
Se ha borrado un adjunto en formato HTML...
URL: <
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ar/attachments/20160709/17127c96/attachment-0001.html
>

--

Subject: Pié de página del digest


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Fin de Resumen de Talk-ar, Vol 76, Envío 1
***


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag 'network' et 'name' pour une relation de type route départementale

[François Lacombe]

Bonsoir à tous,

Le 7 juillet 2016 à 01:22, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Pour ça on a :
> - ref pour le Axx
> - int_ref pour le Exx
>

Ok

Mouais... pour le changement vu qu'on a de très fortes chances que la
> relation soit cassée quelque part, il sera toujours préférable de faire une
> requête overpass pour n'oublier aucun petit bout. Changer uniquement le ref
> sur la relation c'est un peu utopique malheureusement.
>



> Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai donné l'exemple... les relations se cassent
> très facilement et si on ne jardine pas en permanence se baser uniquement
> dessus n'est malheureusement pas fiable.
>

Il y a pourtant tous les contours de communes qui sont décris comme ça.
Personne ne serait d'accord pour indiquer le nom de chaque commune sur les
tronçons de limite pour utiliser une requête overpass de la même manière.


>
> Question connexe : quelle différence vous faites entre une route
>> départementale et une ligne de transport en commun ?
>> Moi aucune, pourtant la seconde est très rarement représentée autrement
>> qu'avec une relation.
>>
>>
> Un tronçon de route ne compte qu'un ref (pour les Exx c'est un tag séparé
> qui décrit autre chose) alors qu'un tronçon de rue peut voir passer
> plusieurs lignes de bus ou autres itinéraires en tout genre.


C'est une hypothèse de départ que je ne partage pas.
Accordons-nous sur ce désaccord :)


> C'est pour cela que les relations sont adaptées aux transports en commun.
>
> On voit par ces multiples itinéraires combien les relations sont fragiles
> et complexe à maintenir... il suffit de voir le roman sur les panneaux M12
> ;)
> Imaginez la question "comment je fait pour indiquer que ce tronçon fait
> partie d'une départementale"...
>

Autant on ne tague pas pour le rendu, mais je n'aime pas les modélisations
pour les outils.

Investir dans des outils performants est plus pérenne que de répéter x fois
une information sur des milliers d'objets pour obtenir une simplicité
éphémère.
Utopie ou réalité, je ne suis pas légitime pour le dire.

La proposition ressemble pour l'instant beaucoup trop à la logique de
> "collection" et les arguments en faveur n'ont rien de nouveau
> (maintenabilité, élimination de redondance, etc) mais lors des discussions
> précédentes du même type, la conclusion avait été en défaveur des relations.
>

Pourquoi on en discute de cette façon aujourd'hui alors ?

Plusieurs voix ont dit la même chose quand il a s'agit de donner plus de
détails sur les lignes électriques il y a ~ 1 an.
Résultat, aujourd'hui le gouvernement allemand finance une initiative (
scigrid.de pour ne pas la nommer) et ils nous motivent énormément pour
rendre le réseau routable via des relations.
Cf http://scigrid.de/posts/2015-Jul-02_power-relations-in-openstreetmap.html

Si on applique votre vision des routes départementales, on devrait répéter
le nom des circuits de transport électrique sur tous les tronçons de file
de pylônes et de câbles souterrains. Ça ne serait clairement pas
maintenable, mais très simple dans l'approche.


A+

François
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Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.

[Paul Johnson]

I think this would be great for point-based data in order to help others
properly determine the correct name=* tag.  However, given the
circumstances, I tend to also use source:name or name:source (not sure
which is correct) citing the state law renaming the road, since that's
verifable and canonical and signage frequently is not here.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Kevin Morgan 
wrote:

> Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag use
> the following format  name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag if the
> information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the following sub tags
> color, icon, description, direction and text. The text sub tag is used to
> add additional text that is not a part of the name or ref. For example the
> city a road way leads to often include on a road sign. Description is for
> descriptive information that needs to be interpreted by a person rather map
> generation software. Direction is north,south, east,west.
>
> --
>   Kevin Morgan
>   morgankev...@fastmail.fm
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Andrea Lattmann]

>quasi quasi sarebbe da spegnerli il sito direttamente via DCMA takedown
>;-)

Bravo Martin! 
Per chi non vuole ascoltare si può comunicare al provider che il loro cliente 
viola il copyright. Voglio vedere se non fanno qualche cosa. Al max si segnala 
anche provider al nicit ;-)

Grazie per il suggerimento che lo battezzerò Metodo "Martin linea dura"!
:-D

Andrea Lattmann

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[Talk-de] Doppelte Gebäude

[Heinz-Jürgen Oertel]

Hallo

Im polnischen
Bronków (31810418)

Location: 51.96207, 15.00445

sind viele Gebäude doppelt an genau der gleichen Stelle eingetragen.
Wahrscheinlich durch einen Import

user:rowers2
obrysy budynków "importowane"  z GUGIK
Quelle: geoportal.gov.pl: WMS budynki, WMS orto, WMS ISOK_CiEŃ

Vielleicht kennt jeman einen Mapper in Polen und kann darauf hinweisen


Heinz

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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

[Aury88]

ok, ho guardato qualche relazione è ho visto che basta che siano tra loro in
ordine tutti gli stop o le platform...
vedo che lo stop è posto sia sulla way sia fuori e comunque non bisogna
tagliare le way.
noto anche che i nodi con ruolo stop alcune volte anno anche tag
public_transport=platform+highway=bus_stop [1]

stile che onestamente non mi sembra propriamente corretto, sia dal punto di
vista della relazione sia da quello dei normali tag degli elementi :-/


[1]http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1673642559#map=18/41.90714/12.40526=T



-
Ciao,
Aury
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[Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.

[Kevin Morgan]

Here is an idea. An additional tag is added called signage. The tag use
the following format  name;ref;text. Each item is added to the tag if
the information is in clued on road signs. The tag has the following sub
tags color, icon, description, direction and text. The text sub tag is
used to add additional text that is not a part of the name or ref. For
example the city a road way leads to often include on a road sign.
Description is for descriptive information that needs to be interpreted
by a person rather map generation software. Direction is north,south,
east,west.
 
--
  Kevin Morgan
  morgankev...@fastmail.fm
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> Greg Troxel wrote:
> > When converting to garmin format with mkgmap, and I think with osmand,
> > I will tend to hear both the name and the ref.  That's a big lengthy, but
> > there's no real pattern on which to leave out.
>
> For cycle.travel's directions in the US, I've started post-processing the
> name and ref tag to remove duplication. So if name=State Route 315 and
> ref=OH 315, for example, it will simply say the road to follow is "OH 315"
> rather than "OH 315 State Route 315". But this requires some Lua
> string-matching magick which I suspect is outwith the capabilities of
> mkgmap.


Ideally the name tag would be removed in the OSM data in the first place in
such a case.
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione mappa OpenStreetMap sul sito

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 09 lug 2016, alle ore 13:01, Andrea Lattmann 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Mi permetto un consiglio, fai un whois del dominio e scrivi al responsabile 
> del sito/società: questo di solito "smuove" ;-)


purtroppo oramai tanti si nascondono dietro il provider, in questi casi quasi 
quasi sarebbe da spegnerli il sito direttamente via DCMA takedown ;-)

ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

[Aury88]

ma l'ordine riferito ad altri elementi con lo steso ruolo (stop o platform) o
è un ordine che deve tenere conto anche degli altri ruoli?
devo mettere le fermate  tra una way e l'altra nella lista degli elementi
appartenenti alla relazione o posso semplicemente elencare alla fine (in
ordine) tutte le fermate? 



-
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Aury
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Per me l'ordine bus_stop nella relazione é importante, anche se per la
circolare inizi a caso. Non tanto per osm, ma per le applicazioni di
transito che ne usano i dati.

--
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Il 10/lug/2016 12:22 "Aury88"  ha scritto:

> altri dubbi:
> vorrei inserire anche le fermate e per questi ci sono i due ruoli stop e
> platform.
> da quello che ho capito stop dovrebbe essere un punto lungo la highway che
> compone la rotta (e dovrebbe corrispondere al
> public_transport=stop_position) mentre platform (che dovrebbe essere
> public_transport=platform o un highway=bus_stop) è un luogo vicino
> all'elemento stop , giusto?
> ho due problemi con questo schema. il nodo con ruolo stop deve tagliare la
> way (e quindi diventare il nodo all'estremo di due way)o basta che sia un
> nodo appartenenre alla way (cioè un nodo intermedio)?
> altro dubbio il wiki chiede di inserire i nodi e le piattaforme con
> l'ordine
> percorso dalla rotta ma purtroppo essendo a gela le linee circolari non c'è
> un punto iniziale o finale...parto da un punto a caso? considerate che
> anche
> per le way c'è lo stesso problema e sono partito da un punto a caso, ma
> dovrei inserire anche gli stop partendo da quel punto?
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Ciao,
> Aury
> --
> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[OSM-ja] Join State of the Map Asia October 1-2, 2016 in Manila, Philippines

[maning sambale]

Dear everyone,

[crosspost]

We are happy to announce that the 2nd State of the Map Asia will
happen in Manila, Philippines on October 1-2, 2016. Two days in the
Philippines with talks, discussions, and workshops all around the free
and open map of the world.

This is a free event (no registration fee), if you plan to join, head
over to the website to register.

http://stateofthemap.asia/

Call for proposal/prsentations is here: http://stateofthemap.asia/program.html

In the coming weeks, we will announce the scholarship applications and
other details. We are also looking for sponsors to cover for food and
other expenses needed to make this awesome.  If you are interested,
please contact: osmpilipinas+sotmasia2...@gmail.com

We hope the OSM community in Asia and all over the world can join.

Maning Sambale
In behalf of the SOTM-Asia 2016 Organizing Team

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Re: [Talk-us] Common names of highways do not match road signs.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Greg Troxel wrote:
> When converting to garmin format with mkgmap, and I think with osmand, 
> I will tend to hear both the name and the ref.  That's a big lengthy, but
> there's no real pattern on which to leave out.

For cycle.travel's directions in the US, I've started post-processing the
name and ref tag to remove duplication. So if name=State Route 315 and
ref=OH 315, for example, it will simply say the road to follow is "OH 315"
rather than "OH 315 State Route 315". But this requires some Lua
string-matching magick which I suspect is outwith the capabilities of
mkgmap.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-it] Violazione copyright

[Volker Schmidt]

Mi sembra che la discussione su "substantial" si riferisce alla ODBL e
riguarda la soglia oltre la quale prodotti derivati devono essere mess
sotto la stessa licenza.
Nel caso nostro si tratta dell'uso delle tiles, che sono sotto CC BY-SA.
Richiede l'attribuzione.
Vedi http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright




2016-07-10 12:20 GMT+02:00 Cascafico Giovanni :

> Mah. Tra sostanziale e non sostanziale, village e town, zone sparsamente
> popolate (quanto?) e poi questi numeri arbitrari (in base 10) di 100
> elementi e 1000 abitanti, mi pare si aggiunga ulteriore confusione.
> Se l'intento vuole essere di liberare dalle preoccupazioni gli utenti
> occasionali, mi pare non ci siamo.
>
> Costa così tanto mettere l'attribuzione? Di sicuro costerà in discussioni
> interminabili. Io colle mie mappette umap mi son liberato del problema,
> lasciando l'attribuzione.
>
> Se un vuol farsi una mappa un po' più elaborata con Qgis o maperitive,
> credo abbia le competenze di mettere il solito bollino in calce.
>
> --
> cascafico.altervista.org
> twitter.com/cascafico
> Il 10/lug/2016 10:41 "Marcello"  ha scritto:
>
>> La pagina è questa:
>>
>> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline
>>
>> Si parla di un'area fino a 1000 abitanti oppure 100 features, oppure se
>> sono più di 100 devono essere per uso 'personale'. Il mio inglese però
>> lascia a desiderare, verificate meglio.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Marcello
>>
>>
>> Il 09/07/2016 21:46, Andrea Lattmann ha scritto:
>> > Il 09 luglio 2016 16:43:57 CEST, Aury88  ha
>> scritto:
>> >> Andrea Lattmann wrote
>> >>>  A memoria, non so perché, mi ricordo di aver letto che per piccole
>> >> aree
>> >>> non era necessaria l' attribuzione. Prima di mandare l' e-mail alla
>> >>> polisportiva volevo fugare ogni mio dubbio. Grazie
>> >> si, ricordo pure io questa cosa.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Ciao,
>> >> Aury
>> >> --
>> >> View this message in context:
>> >>
>> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Violazione-copyright-tp5877711p5877725.html
>> >> Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-it mailing list
>> >> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>> >> si, ricordo pure io questa cosa.
>> > E' che non riesco a trovare su che pagina l' ho letto. Anche se poi
>> bisognerà capire fino a che punto è una piccola porzione e a memoria ne
>> dava spiegazione. Appena sarò riuscito a trovarlo ve lo farò sapere.
>> > Grazie Aury, per un momento pensavo di essere impazzito.
>> >
>> > Andrea Lattmann
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Violazione copyright

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Mah. Tra sostanziale e non sostanziale, village e town, zone sparsamente
popolate (quanto?) e poi questi numeri arbitrari (in base 10) di 100
elementi e 1000 abitanti, mi pare si aggiunga ulteriore confusione.
Se l'intento vuole essere di liberare dalle preoccupazioni gli utenti
occasionali, mi pare non ci siamo.

Costa così tanto mettere l'attribuzione? Di sicuro costerà in discussioni
interminabili. Io colle mie mappette umap mi son liberato del problema,
lasciando l'attribuzione.

Se un vuol farsi una mappa un po' più elaborata con Qgis o maperitive,
credo abbia le competenze di mettere il solito bollino in calce.

--
cascafico.altervista.org
twitter.com/cascafico
Il 10/lug/2016 10:41 "Marcello"  ha scritto:

> La pagina è questa:
>
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline
>
> Si parla di un'area fino a 1000 abitanti oppure 100 features, oppure se
> sono più di 100 devono essere per uso 'personale'. Il mio inglese però
> lascia a desiderare, verificate meglio.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Marcello
>
>
> Il 09/07/2016 21:46, Andrea Lattmann ha scritto:
> > Il 09 luglio 2016 16:43:57 CEST, Aury88  ha
> scritto:
> >> Andrea Lattmann wrote
> >>>  A memoria, non so perché, mi ricordo di aver letto che per piccole
> >> aree
> >>> non era necessaria l' attribuzione. Prima di mandare l' e-mail alla
> >>> polisportiva volevo fugare ogni mio dubbio. Grazie
> >> si, ricordo pure io questa cosa.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Ciao,
> >> Aury
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Violazione-copyright-tp5877711p5877725.html
> >> Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-it mailing list
> >> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> >> si, ricordo pure io questa cosa.
> > E' che non riesco a trovare su che pagina l' ho letto. Anche se poi
> bisognerà capire fino a che punto è una piccola porzione e a memoria ne
> dava spiegazione. Appena sarò riuscito a trovarlo ve lo farò sapere.
> > Grazie Aury, per un momento pensavo di essere impazzito.
> >
> > Andrea Lattmann
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] relazione per linea autobus e rotonde

[Aury88]

altri dubbi:
vorrei inserire anche le fermate e per questi ci sono i due ruoli stop e
platform.
da quello che ho capito stop dovrebbe essere un punto lungo la highway che
compone la rotta (e dovrebbe corrispondere al
public_transport=stop_position) mentre platform (che dovrebbe essere
public_transport=platform o un highway=bus_stop) è un luogo vicino
all'elemento stop , giusto?
ho due problemi con questo schema. il nodo con ruolo stop deve tagliare la
way (e quindi diventare il nodo all'estremo di due way)o basta che sia un
nodo appartenenre alla way (cioè un nodo intermedio)?
altro dubbio il wiki chiede di inserire i nodi e le piattaforme con l'ordine
percorso dalla rotta ma purtroppo essendo a gela le linee circolari non c'è
un punto iniziale o finale...parto da un punto a caso? considerate che anche
per le way c'è lo stesso problema e sono partito da un punto a caso, ma
dovrei inserire anche gli stop partendo da quel punto?





-
Ciao,
Aury
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione

[girarsi_liste]

Il 05/07/2016 21:43, Alessandro Palmas ha scritto:
> 
> Affrontiamo una volta per tutte il problema visto che ciclicamente
> ritorna il discorso della mancata attribuzione.
> 
> Prendendo spunto dalla tua lettera l'avrei modificata rendendola
> leggermente più diretta e in uno stile non da 'lettera a Savonarola'
> https://it.wikiquote.org/wiki/Non_ci_resta_che_piangere
> 
> 
> Oggetto: Richiesta rispetto licenza OpenStreetMap.
> 
> 
> Gentile/Spettabile Signor/Comune/Azienda,
> 
> mi chiamo Pinco Pallino, ho riscontrato la presenza della mappa
> OpenStreetMap (http://www.openstreetmap.org/) come dati/base alla pagina
> del Vostro sito:
> 
> http://tuapagina.it 
> 
> Come membro volontario della comunità di OpenStreetMap, mi fa piacere si
> sia scelta la nostra mappa, ma vorrei evidenziare che il vostro caso
> d'uso manca di uno dei pochi requisiti richiesti dal progetto,
> l'attribuzione, come si può leggere nel testo della licenza:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
> 
> Per cui si richiede che l'attribuzione sia "© OpenStreetMap
> contributors”, oppure il link “http://www.openstreetmap.org/”
> , nel caso di un’immagine della
> mappa; in caso di una mappa elettronica navigabile o statica, come si
> può vedere nell’esempio sotto riportato, il riconoscimento deve essere
> mostrato in un angolo della mappa attraverso un link.
> 
> immagine da inserire
> 
> Per noi è importante il pieno rispetto della licenza; l’uso dei dati e
> delle immagini cartografiche richiede unicamente il rispetto del nostro
> lavoro di volontari mappatori, attività che come avete appurato diviene
> utile anche per le vostre necessità. È un nostro diritto chiederlo, è un
> vostro dovere rispettarlo ai fini dell’utilizzo della mappa.
> 
> Qualora abbisogni di ulteriori informazioni, sono disponibile al
> seguente indirizzo email:
> 
> pincopall...@posta.mia (indicherei una
> casella mail istituzionale)
> 
> Sono certo che i riferimenti riportati siano sufficienti a verificare
> quanto da me scritto; mi auguro che ciò sia sufficiente ad intervenire
> da parte vostra per mettere fine ad una mancata attribuzione, cordiali
> saluti.
> 
> Pinco Pallino volontario OpenStreetMap
> 
> P.S.: questo è chiaramente un avviso bonario, tuttavia la violazione è
> stata segnalata a Wikimedia Italia/OpenStreetMap Foundation e il
> protrarsi di tale violazione potrà portare a conseguenza legali.
> 

Come suggerito da Alessandro, ho modificato la lettera, spero in altri
interventi.

Per quanto riguarda il "PS", sarebbe il caso di mandare copia a quale
indirizzo wikimedia? info(presso)wikimedia.it?

Per quanto riguarda la posizione della pagina, mettere come versione
italiana di questa?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution/Example_email

-- 
Simone Girardelli
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|



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Re: [Talk-de] Akkus für den Garmin

[Carsten Schwede]

Hallo,

ich hatte auch lange die XX im Einsatz (Oregon 600), dise ließen aber 
auch dann nach einigen Jahren Dauernutzung (mind. 5 Tage diw Woche 1 
Stunde, ca. 1x die Woche geladen) nach. Ich habe jetzt die Nachfolger Im 
Einsatz, Eneloop Pro, 2500mAh. Diese halten wieder sehr gut, man merkt 
dann erstmal wieviel Kapazität die alten Akkus schon verloren hatten, 
tippe auf ca. 40%-50% nach ca. 3 Jahren. Also normales Verhalten.


Am 09.07.2016 um 21:28 schrieb Michael Reichert:


Vor fünf Jahren, als ich meinen Garmin Dakota 20 gekauft habe, habe
ich für ihn vier Sanyo Eneloop XX gekauft.



Welche Akkus setzt ihr in euren Garmins ein? Wie lange nutzt ihr die
Akkus schon und wie oft werden sie verwendet?


--
Viele Grüße
Carsten

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[Talk-lt] Reikia validatorių: Tanzanijos mapinimas

[Egle Marija Ramanauskaite]

Sveiki,

Su Crowd2Map projektu toliau po truputį
mappiname Mara regioną Tanzanijoje - HOT task #1788
. Esame užsibrėžę
iki
gruodžio užduotį užbaigti (tuomet prasideda FGM sezonas, o mūsų tikslas -
ant žemėlapio sudėti kuo daugiau kaimelių ir iki jų einančių kelių, kad
humanitariniai darbuotojai pasiektų kaimelius, o nuo FGM bėgančios
mergaitės lengviau rastų Mugumu Safe House. Šiuo metu task'as sumappintas
65% - tačiau *labai trūksta validatorių*.

Kadangi žinau, jog šioje grupėje nemažai patyrusių OSM'istų, kreipiuosi su
kvietimu validuoti! Ar galėtumėte kas nors prisidėti? Apskritai turime tik
kelis validatorius, taigi viskas, deja, labai lėtai juda! (šiuo metu
validated - tik 14%).

(Aišku šiaip mapinimas irgi nepamaišys - jei turite noro ir laiko, pirmyn!
:)) )

Labai lauksiu žinių!

P.S. nuo rudens galvojame bent kas antrą mėnesį organizuoti mapatonus
Technariume - mapinsim įvarius dalykus (kad ir iš HOT'o), su įvairiais
editoriais. Rašykit, jei kas norėtų prisidėti prie organizavimo - būtų
labai smagu! O apie pirmąjį mapatoną būtinai pranešiu.

-- 
*Eglė Marija Ramanauskaitė*
Citizen Science Coordinator & PIO at Human Computation Institute

Writer at Technology.Org
 and
Technologijos.lt 
Master of *Molecular & Cellular Biology* and *Education Science*

  

*Follow my blog: All things #citizenscience & #biohacking
*
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?

[Christoph Hormann]

On Sunday 10 July 2016, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
> Let's consider another use case. An application that shows OSM map,
> and on top of it shows 1 mln of user points. A users has an option to
> hide the OSM map underneath proprietary points, with a radius of 1
> km. Does in that moment when a user clickes the options, the combined
> map become derivative? Because the application removes parts of OSM
> map based on proprietary data, which means, by your implications,
> that that creates an inseparable references.

I would keep it on the level of combining proprietary data and OSM data 
for the same feature type because this is what you do and this is also 
what is best documented in the guidelines and related discussion.

As i see it you acknowledge that there is such a combination of 
different data sets but since you have a reverse case in comparison to 
the examples given in the guidelines they do not apply and you somehow 
read the license itself to support your use case.

I think this is an interesting viewpoint although i see little chance of 
this becoming a widely accepted interpretation.  It depends on the idea 
that when generating your produced work or publicly using the two data 
sets in combination you have a Collective Database and no Derivative 
Database.  This is going to be really hard to argue since you just 
modified one of the databases you combine for the obvious purpose of 
using it in combination.  Removing hotel POIs from OSM only makes sense 
if you use it in combination with your other data set - the 
de-duplicated OSM part of your alleged Collective Database is therefore 
clearly not an independent database.

If you think through this scenario somewhat further it would essentially 
mean share-alike to be ineffective in de-duplication cases.  Since 
de-duplication is generally only possible in cases where both data sets 
have a roughly comparable quality level (though not necessary the same 
level of completeness) it will hardly ever matter from a practical 
viewpoint which data set you remove duplicates from.  So if one 
direction was possible without share-alike the guidelines would 
essentially be irrelevant because they'd only distinguish between those 
cases where you have to de-duplicate in one direction and those where 
you can combine data sets freely without share-alike.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] Říční kilometry

[Michal Pustějovský]

Ahoj,

waterway=milestone, viz 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Dmilestone



Michal

Dne 09.07.2016 v 23:52 Jan Dudík napsal(a):



Dne 6. července 2016 10:57 Karel Volný > napsal(a):


- mimochodem, je-li řeč o záchranných kruzích, v rámci projektu
nebezpecnejezy.cz  jsou krom záchranných
prostředků instalovány i cedule
obsahující mj. název, říční kilometr a souřadnice, kteréžto pro
HZS plní
přesně tuto funkci ... což je krásný příklad, jak je to 'highway'
absolutně
mimo, neb často jsou umístěny přímo na konstrukci jezu (její
pobřežní části),
a ke spoustě jezů žádná cesta nevede


Když už se tu nakously ty říční kilometry - jeli jsme podél Dunaje, 
kde je značená kilometráž po 100 m, jsou to výrazné betonové číslice 
na břehu - ale v OSM jsem je nenašel.
U nás jsou u některých řek kilometrovníky, což je také výrazný kamenný 
patník.

Otázka zní:  mapovat? a pokud ano, jak otagovat?

JAnD



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[OSM-talk-fr] TLPE et OSM : coment la publicité extérieure aide à compléter OSM !

[Pierre Touzard]

Bonjour à tous,

Dans le carde de la mise en œuvre de la Taxe Locale sur la Publicité
Extérieure (TLPE), nous (SOGEFI) réalisons pour le compte de collectivités
des inventaires exhaustifs des supports publicitaires présents sur leur
territoire.

Trois types de supports sont ainsi relevés et positionnés (position
métrique) :

1) Les dispositifs publicitaires (par exemple les "fameux" 4x3 situés sur
les points de passage),
2) Les pré-enseignes (par exemple "Commerce X situé au 3ème feu à droite à
2min),
3) Les enseignes (tout ce qui équipe un commerce et ses abords immédiats).

Tout les supports sont systématiquement rattachés à un établissement (à un
SIRET INSEE dans la plutpart des cas). Dans notre procédure nous complétons
ensuite les informations sur établissement avec notamment le code NAF.


Il est intéressant de remarquer que ce type de travail permet de constituer
de façon indirecte un inventaire localisé précis de toutes les entreprises
ayant "pignon sur rue" d'une collectivité à un instant T !

Nous étudions donc actuellement les possibilité de générer à partir de ces
inventaire des fichiers d'export (.osm) pour OSM en fonction du type de
support :

1) > un fichier "export_osm_advertising.osm" qui contient un node
"advertising=billboard" + "operator=TOTO" (si connu)
2) > non traité quoique pourrait être identique à 1)
3) > un fichier "export_osm_shop.osm" qui contient un node par établissement
décrit par des tags fonction du code NAF de l'établissement (table de
passage code NAF > tags OSM). La position du node est déterminée comme étant
le centroïd des enseignes de l'établissement.

Vous pouvez juger tu résultat ici sur quelques communes : 
http://demo.sogefi-web.com/exports_tlpe/
  


Une difficulté restant non solutionnée est le tag name qui prend toujours
une chaine en majuscule (information saisie en majuscules dans notre base de
données). Il faudrait donc modifier à la main de tag name.

Se pose ensuite la question du versement de tels fichier dans OSM... L'idée
serait de s'en servir pour qualifier les bâtiments issus du cadastre plutôt
que d'intégrer brutalement les nodes au risque de doublons avec des éléments
déjà présents dans OSM.

Pierre T.



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Re: [Talk-de] Akkus für den Garmin

[Jannis Achstetter]

Hallo Michael,

> Vor fünf Jahren, als ich meinen Garmin Dakota 20 gekauft habe, habe
> ich für ihn vier Sanyo Eneloop XX gekauft.
> https://www.amazon.de/Sanyo-eneloop-Mignon-rechargeable-battery/dp/B004D
> W7S06/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=opensde-21=1468091800=8-1=B
> 004DW7S06
> [2] (Preis damals bei Amazon 15,05 Euro für 4 Stück)

Ich nutze in meinem Garmin eTrex die weißen eneloops mit je 1900mAh
(richtig, sind schon ein bisschen älter ;) und hatte noch nie Probleme.
Geladen werden sie auch mit einem BC700.

Ich habe neulich von Bekannten gehört, dass die schwarzen eneloops nicht
so die Lebensdauer haben wie die weißen, evtl. liegt's daran.

VG,
Jannis

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lot Talk-fr, Vol 120, Parution 27

[Francescu GAROBY]

Bonjour,
Concernant les old_*, je ne les mets que dans 2 cas :
* le changement est tout récent, donc je mets l'ancienne valeur dans un tag
old_*, en espérant que Nominatim sache chercher dedans.
* l'ancienne valeur apparaît encore sur le terrain (c'est le cas de
certaines rues, où un panneau "anciennement rue de XXX" peut etre encore
visible).

Pour ton old_ref, il y a plus de chances que tu sois dans le premier cas...

Francescu
Le 10 juil. 2016 00:27, "Donat ROBAUX"  a écrit :

> De tous vos commentaires voici l'architecture minimale à laquelle
>> j’aboutis (qui contient une relation !) :
>>
>>- Relation
>>   - type=route
>>   - route=road
>>   - ref=D 321
>>   - network=FR-78:d-road
>>   - *name* (cf. plus bas)
>>   - *wikipedia* (de la RD)
>>   - Membres
>>  - Way
>> - highway
>> - ref=D 321
>> - *operator*
>> - Way
>> - highway
>> - ref=D 321
>> - *operator*
>> - ...
>>
>> En bleu ce qui existe déjà dans OSM (et qui reste inchangé : =les ways).
>> En rouge ce qui est ajouté (=la relation). En italique ce qui serait
>> facultatif (en espérant que la liste de diffusion ne massacre pas le style).
>>
>> Dans un second temps je vois bien dans chaque relation des infos
>> permettant de faire le rendu du symbol de la RD par un renderer : texte
>> noir sur fond jaune. Mais pour le moment il n'y a pas de standard défini
>> (tel que OSMC) donc je m’abstiens (voila un bel exemple de l'avantage des
>> relations !). Donc à mettre de côté...
>>
>> Pour ce qui est du name=* je pense que, dans le cas de la Route Napoléon
>> (qui est d'ailleurs une RN, mais l'exemple est intéressant) c'est là ou
>> alt_name et name_x rentrent en scène. On peut imaginer avoir name=Route
>> Napoléon et alt_name=Route nationale 85. Les moteurs de recherche (OSM,
>> Internet, dans les Apps...) sont très intelligents mais entre 'D 321' et
>> 'Route départementale 321' ce n'est pas le même niveau d'informations. De
>> même quand on visualise l'objet OSM. J'aurai donc tendance à conserver la
>> possibilité de mettre un name pour ceux qui le jugent utile. Par contre
>> j'ai senti un consensus derrière le fait que dans tous les cas il ne faut
>> pas y ajouter de fioriture tel que le nom du département.
>>
>> Pour ce qui est de la cohérence des données j'imagine aisément un check
>> JOSM (ID n'intégrant pas ce concept) qui vérifie que toute way dans une
>> relation de ce type, en France, contienne un tag ref identique, sinon un
>> warning. Après si l'utilisateur ignore le warning...
>>
>> A vous lire... en attendant j'ai mis en pause le chantier (même en
>> Essonne qui reste partiellement couvert).
>>
>> LeTopographeFou
>>
>
> 2 avis/suggestions générales
>
>- Pensez-vous utile de mettre un old_ref=N4? Je sais que OSM ne
>cartographie pas le passé, mais...
>- Plutôt que le lien wikipedia, je mettrais le lien wikidata. Exemple
>pour la N4: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q922320 wikidata=Q922320. Je
>sais que ce n'est pas encore dans les mœurs et qu'on ne sait pas encore
>comment tout ca va se goupiller, mais je pense qu'il faut le faire, et pas
>seulement pour les routes mais pour toutes les autres infos (je pense
>notamment aux communes).
>
>
> Donat
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Response regarding use of PSMA Administrative Boundaries (Australia)

[Reuben]

On 10/07/16 14:06, cleary wrote:

Feedback from the legal-talk list is that the reply from the Department
of Prime Minister and Cabinet is not sufficient and therefore we cannot
use PSMA datasets in OSM.

As far as I can ascertain, the lines on the Contributors page of the
wiki, referring to PSMA boundaries, were added by a user named Reubot a
little over three months ago. However a search for this user returned a
result that there was no user of this name -  I'm not sure how that
works and someone else may understand how this could be so. This user
also added Brisbane City Council as a source in the Contributors page so
someone may wish to check if that data is actually permitted in OSM
either.  I'm not sure how much data was actually added to OSM from PSMA
by this user or anyone else.


Sorry about that, I was under the impression that it was covered by the 
data.gov.au permission. I only added Brisbane and Redlands and am now in 
the process of undoing. I have sent an email to QLD Department of 
Natural Resources and Mines to asking for explicit permission to use 
their (boundary) datasets instead.


The Brisbane City Council data should be good as I got explicit permission:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.brisbane.qld.gov.au_explicit_permission 



Reuben

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