[talk-cz] Únorový mapathon Missing maps v Praze

[Kateřina Panczaková]

Dobrý den,

ráda bych Vás informovala o tom, že příští úterý 25. února proběhne další
pražský mapathon, tentokrát v sídle KPMG Česká republika, Pobřežní 648/1a,
186 00 Praha.
https://www.facebook.com/events/504043236919552/

Hezký den
Katka Panczaková
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Re: [Talk-se] Ortnamnsimport från Lantmäteriets GSD-Terrängkartan

[Grigory Rechistov via Talk-se]

Hej!
Lång historia kort: jag har skapad en privat OSM API server som nu innehåller
samtliga 118 tusen importnoder. Man kan använda den för att ladda ner, jämföra,
redigera, radera flytta och eventuellt ladda upp punkter till den offentliga
OSM-databasen. Man "öppnar" både servrarna som två JOSM:s lager och flyttar 
noder
mellan lagren.
Här följer ett utdrag ur importplanen 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Lantm%C3%A4teriet_GSD-Terr%C3%A4ngkartans_ortnamnsimport#Private_API_server_workflow
 som beskriver processen
steg för steg.
 

Private API server workflow
A private OSM API v0.6 server is created to host a live copy of import data. 
The server URL is http://atakua.org:3000/api and it can be specified in JOSM 
settings to download and upload ready nodes.
Notes about the private API server
    The private API server is a slow home computer behind an even weaker 
front-end VPS. Please do not overload it with work.
    There are no guarantees that the server is available at any time, or at 
all. Its power and/or network connection may be down for undefined periods of 
time.
    The server runs a rough copy of the official osm.org website software.
    Only the API v0.6 endpoint is supposed to work at the specified URL. If 
something else works, it does so by accident.
    There is no real gliding map, no Overpass/Nominatim etc. services, no 
users (except one), no way to register users, no online editor etc.
    There is currently no tile server to visualize the DB contents. Having 
one would definitely help to see what areas are still not covered.
    A single account mapper is created to allow collaborators to make edits via 
OSM API. See the mailing list thread for the account's password.
    Please report your problems with the server to the talk-se mailing list.
The workflow is to download a group of nodes from the private API, edit them as 
needed, copy them to the public DB, and delete them from the private DB.
Step-by-step workflow
A recommended workflow is described below. JOSM and two data layers are used to 
download, edit and transfer nodes from the private API to the public API. 
Certain steps of the workflow may be adjusted when needed.
It is recommended to set up and activate a JOSM filter with query text 
"place=*" and inverted flag in order to shade everything not related to objects 
with place tags. It will shade a lot of visual clutter.
1. Use the JOSM download dialog with gliding window to download a chunk of data 
from the OSM API server into a new data layer.
2. Create a second empty data layer (keyboard shortcut Ctrl-N).
3. Change JOSM settings to expert mode. In JOSM settings change connection 
options to the private API URL.
4. Use the download dialog with gliding window to download a chunk of data for 
the same bounding box from the private API server. Now you have two data 
layers: the first one with "old" and the second one with "new" data.
5. Edit the "new" data in the second layer as you see fit: move, rename, 
delete, retag etc. Set up an satellite imagery background layer as a reference 
if needed.
6. When satisfied with the result, it is time to move the new nodes. Do not use 
JOSM's Merge function to copy nodes between layers! It won't work correctly as 
object IDs of the private API are incompatible with the main OSM DB.
7. Select all nodes (Ctrl-A), copy them to the clipboard (Ctrl-C). Switch to 
the first layer, and use Paste at source position (shortcut Ctrl-Alt-V) command 
to insert them. A copy of selected nodes (treated as newly created objects by 
JOSM) will be created.
8. Get back to the second layer and delete selected nodes. Then upload your 
changes to the private API DB. To do that, user account in JOSM settings must 
be set to mapper, not your normal import account.
    Yes, this is awkward to switch back and forth between two API URLs and two 
accounts via JOSM options. A ticket for a feature enhancement to address this 
inconvenience has not been closed since 2009.
    The deletion step is required to prevent other collaborators from working 
on the same nodes after you've moved them. Please mention your "real" user 
account in the changeset message.
9. Change back to the public OSM API and your import account in JOSM settings. 
Make sure to use a separate account containing word "import" when uploading 
data to the main DB; it is dictated by the OSM requirements.
10. Open the first data layer and upload it to the public API DB.
As a result of these steps, a set of nodes was moved from one DB to another DB.

==
Den privata API:s kontouppgifter:
    användarnamn: mapper
    lösenord: at_at_how_med_cos
Ni kan leka med den! Rapportera gärna dina åsikter om hela ovanstående 
processen.
Tänk på att servern kan krascha när som helst. Jag håller på att semestra nästa
vecka och jag kommer troligen inte kunna åtgärda några uppstående problem tills
jag kommer tillbaka.
Om allt går bra ska jag snart inleda en 

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL Advice — POIs and private / personal data

[Kathleen Lu via legal-talk]

Hi Robin,
Have you had a chance to review the Community Guidelines?
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines
In particular, I would think that the Horizontal Layers Guideline
("Examples of where you DO NOT need to share your non-OpenStreetMap data:
You use OpenStreetMap as a base topographical map for orientation and then
plot your own unrelated data over the top. An simple example of this might
be scientific or highly specialist data such as bird migration paths, tree
species distribution or geological outcrops."), Collective Database
Guidelines ("You collect restaurant names and associated phone numbers.
This data is linked to OSM data by references that associate the OSM
restaurant names to your phone numbers so that your restaurant phone
numbers will appear on an OSM-based map. All the restaurant phone numbers
for the regional cut are provided by you (i.e., the restaurant phone
numbers include no OSM data). Your phone numbers are not subject to
share-alike."), and Geocoding Guideline (particularly
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Geocoding_-_Guideline#Adding_location_names_to_photos)
would be of interest/help to you.
-Kathleen

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 1:19 PM Robin Hawkes  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to get some help to better understand how the ODbL licence
> applies with my use of OSM data. I understand that the discussion here is
> not official — nor a replacement for proper legal advice — however I'm
> hoping you can provide some guidance so I can come to my own conclusion as
> to my obligations.
>
> I'm working on an application for photographers to plan trips, discover
> new locations and save "collections" of markers as inspiration for future
> trips. The application is public (requiring registration and login) and
> most of what users create within this application will be mostly private
> and only view-able by themselves, though some may be shared with other
> users of the application.
>
> Here is a breakdown of relevant functionality:
>
>- The basemap for this is vector tiles from Mapbox (so OSM)
>- A user is able to use the basemap as visual reference and manually
>click on the map and place their own markers under a variety of types (eg.
>place I want to take a photo at, place I want to park my car, waterfall
>that I want to visit)
>   - The coordinates for manually-placed markers will come from the
>   mouse position, not from any OSM feature metadata underneath the mouse 
> at
>   the time
>   - Manually-placed markers may have metadata added by the user to
>   help them organise (eg. a title, an icon, etc) and will be persisted to 
> a
>   database
>- Separately, users will be able to search for OSM POIs near a
>location and add some of them manually to a personal "collection"
>   - The POI search area will be on a relatively local basis (eg.
>   smaller than a national park)
>   - POI search will be limited to very specific features (parking,
>   toilets, viewpoints, waterfalls, etc) — let's say somewhere between 20 
> and
>   40 feature types
>   - POIs will either come from the vector tiles directly, or from a
>   geocoding API (not yet decided)
>   - A user can click on a POI and add it to a personal collection,
>   which will persist the coordinates and POI name and type in a database 
> as a
>   one-time, one-way operation (nothing else is stored in the database from
>   OSM, not even the node ID) — the node coordinates are the only data of
>   interest
>   - A user can then view their saved POIs on the map (coordinates,
>   name and type) and have the ability to change the position, name or 
> type if
>   they wish due to personal preference (eg. I saved a viewpoint POI from 
> OSM
>   but I later change it to a "place I want to take a photo" marker and 
> rename
>   it to "Cool view of mountain")
>
> I've not yet decided if I want to keep the user-created markers and the
> 'collected' OSM POI-sourced markers on separate map layers and separate
> database tables, but it's possible if it helps reduce ODbL compliance
> complexity.
>
> Ultimately, each collection that a user creates will consist of relatively
> few markers (<200 at the top end, probably more like <30 on average),
> mostly manually added by the user (not from POIs), and will be private to
> that user, unless they decide to make it view-able by other users of the
> application. A user can create multiple collections of markers but
> collections are isolated from each other and they can only view one
> collection at a time on the map.
>
> Regarding ODbL:
>
>- With the first example (manually clicking map to add markers); am I
>creating a derivative database, or a collective database? Or neither?
>   - I've been reading up on the definitions and it's confusing
>- Likewise for the second example (storing coordinates manually 

[OSM-legal-talk] ODbL Advice — POIs and private / personal data

[Robin Hawkes]

Hello,

I'm hoping to get some help to better understand how the ODbL licence
applies with my use of OSM data. I understand that the discussion here is
not official — nor a replacement for proper legal advice — however I'm
hoping you can provide some guidance so I can come to my own conclusion as
to my obligations.

I'm working on an application for photographers to plan trips, discover new
locations and save "collections" of markers as inspiration for future
trips. The application is public (requiring registration and login) and
most of what users create within this application will be mostly private
and only view-able by themselves, though some may be shared with other
users of the application.

Here is a breakdown of relevant functionality:

   - The basemap for this is vector tiles from Mapbox (so OSM)
   - A user is able to use the basemap as visual reference and manually
   click on the map and place their own markers under a variety of types (eg.
   place I want to take a photo at, place I want to park my car, waterfall
   that I want to visit)
  - The coordinates for manually-placed markers will come from the
  mouse position, not from any OSM feature metadata underneath the mouse at
  the time
  - Manually-placed markers may have metadata added by the user to help
  them organise (eg. a title, an icon, etc) and will be persisted to a
  database
   - Separately, users will be able to search for OSM POIs near a location
   and add some of them manually to a personal "collection"
  - The POI search area will be on a relatively local basis (eg.
  smaller than a national park)
  - POI search will be limited to very specific features (parking,
  toilets, viewpoints, waterfalls, etc) — let's say somewhere
between 20 and
  40 feature types
  - POIs will either come from the vector tiles directly, or from a
  geocoding API (not yet decided)
  - A user can click on a POI and add it to a personal collection,
  which will persist the coordinates and POI name and type in a
database as a
  one-time, one-way operation (nothing else is stored in the database from
  OSM, not even the node ID) — the node coordinates are the only data of
  interest
  - A user can then view their saved POIs on the map (coordinates, name
  and type) and have the ability to change the position, name or
type if they
  wish due to personal preference (eg. I saved a viewpoint POI
from OSM but I
  later change it to a "place I want to take a photo" marker and
rename it to
  "Cool view of mountain")

I've not yet decided if I want to keep the user-created markers and the
'collected' OSM POI-sourced markers on separate map layers and separate
database tables, but it's possible if it helps reduce ODbL compliance
complexity.

Ultimately, each collection that a user creates will consist of relatively
few markers (<200 at the top end, probably more like <30 on average),
mostly manually added by the user (not from POIs), and will be private to
that user, unless they decide to make it view-able by other users of the
application. A user can create multiple collections of markers but
collections are isolated from each other and they can only view one
collection at a time on the map.

Regarding ODbL:

   - With the first example (manually clicking map to add markers); am I
   creating a derivative database, or a collective database? Or neither?
  - I've been reading up on the definitions and it's confusing
   - Likewise for the second example (storing coordinates manually chosen
   from a POI search and a user editing the title or position), would this be
   a derivative, collective or otherwise?
   - Should I be required to abide by the share-alike clause, would I need
   to also share any data added personally by the user while under the
   assumption that the collection was private and not accessible or visible by
   other users or the public?
  - eg. a marker title of "Place I want to camp the night", or a marker
  they add at their house with the title "My House"
  - This doesn't seem beneficial for OSM as they wouldn't be adding any
  useful information that isn't already in OSM (they're arguably making the
  data less useful by personalising it)
  - It could also expose confidential and identifiable information
  about the user if the collection is assumed to be private
  - It feels legally dubious to be obliged to hand over private data,
  especially if it can identity users
   - Are there any other ODbL provisions that might be relevant here?

I appreciate you taking the time to read through this respond, and please
ask me any questions required to help clarify things.

Regards,
Robin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vandalisme utilisateur "PARIS SUD", le retour

[Sébastien Hinderer]

MERCI, Jean-Yovn!

Je suis désolé de ne pas avoir pu mettre la main à la pâte. Il faut que
je m'écrive un petit script autour de l'API d'OSM pour pouvoir
ocntribuer et je n'ai aps encore trouvé le temps, le courage,
l'énergie... de le faire. Mais j'espère y arriver bientôt.

@Jean-Yovn: lorsque tu supprimes les "sortie" des noms, est-ce que tu
vérifies bien que l'info se trouve effectivement dans ref?

Pour info il y a quelques noeuds où ref a des valeurs bizarres: 0, -1,
*LAZ* *ASC*.

Sébastien, reconnaisant et qui espère pouvoir contribuer par lui-même
bientôt.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Remplacer ref:ERDF:gdo par ref:FR:Enedis / ref:FR:gdo

[François Lacombe]

Bonsoir Quentin,

Attention, à ma connaissance sur les réseaux GRDF, seuls les postes de
distribution publics ont un code GDO affichés.
Les valeurs qui commencent par GI ne sont pas des codes GDO

Cela n'empêche pas de les décrire avec
pipeline=substation
substation=delivery
operator=GRDF
ref=GIxx

La documentation est encore très partielle sur le sujet j'en conviens

Bonne soirée

François

Le lun. 17 févr. 2020 à 11:16, Quentin Salles 
a écrit :

> Bonjour François,
>
> Merci pour cet ajout. Je retrouve les cas que j'ai rencontré dans ma
> commune, notamment les postes de distribution privés
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vandalisme utilisateur "PARIS SUD", le retour

[osm . sanspourriel]

J'ai supprimé plus de la moitié des *sortie* dans les noms de bouches.

Il en reste encore environ 200, c'est pénible mais ça avance.

En espérant que personne ne casse...

Jean-Yvon



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nettoyage Enedis / GRDF

[François Lacombe]

Bonsoir Quentin,

Merci pour les informations, tel qu'expliqué ici ces modifs devraient être
ok.

N'hésitez pas à faire de même chez vous pour se séparer de operator=ERDF
Je m'aperçois que j'en ai encore un peu à faire dans les Alpes

Bonne soirée

François

Le lun. 17 févr. 2020 à 13:17, Quentin Salles 
a écrit :

> Bonjour,
> J'ai effectué la modification des clés ERDF et ENEDIS sur toute la région
> Occitanie. N'étant pas sur de ma contribution, voici ce que j'ai fait :
> - Les postes de transformation basculent vers Enedis après vérification
> sur le site de l'agence ORE
> - Les câbles électriques en surface sont divisés en 2 parties :
> -- Les "minor_line" ont comme opérateur Enedis
> -- Les autres (voltage=63000) ont comme opérateur RTE.
> J'espère ne pas m'être trompé sur mes contributions.
>
> Je n'ai pas réalisé de bascule EDF vers Enedis vu que je ne suis pas assez
> calé pour réaliser ces modifications.
>
> Bonne journée
>
> Quentin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

20 Feb 2020, 12:09 by o...@imagico.de:

> That an attribution 
> hidden under an 'i' visible only on user interaction does not qualify 
> as such is self evident i think.
>
+1

I am quite confused why it is
explicitly listed as acceptable.

Is someone thinking that typical people 
click on every barely visible interface
element so everyone will see it?
(Spoiler: typical user is not doing this)
Or maybe someone is convinced
that anything that fits on mobile device
screen is not eligible for copyright?
(No, it is not true)
I have no idea what kind of reasoning
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

20 Feb 2020, 18:44 by si...@poole.ch:

>
> Am 19.02.2020 um 14:24 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
>
>> In this case the statement that "small maps or multiple data sources" 
>> are the only cases where the document does not require visible 
>> attribution is wrong.  For example it is later stated that visible 
>> attribution is not required if "there is legal or safety or privacy 
>> information that needs to be presented with similar or greater 
>> prominence to attribution" - which at least in the EU is always the 
>> case!
>>
>
> So you agree with us that this is an actual external restraint that
> needs to be considered, and it is not the LWG succumbing to the
> interests of big $$$?
>
External constraints are not overriding
ODBL that requires that users are aware
of source of data.

If someone is unwilling to do that thenthey are unable to use OSM data
legally.

Let's not pretend that Mapbox-style
attribution hiding is enough to
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 19:19 Uhr schrieb Christoph Hormann :

> On Thursday 20 February 2020, Simon Poole wrote:
> For example it is later stated that
> > > visible attribution is not required if "there is legal or safety or
> > > privacy information that needs to be presented with similar or
> > > greater prominence to attribution" - which at least in the EU is
> > > always the case!
> >
> > So you agree with us that this is an actual external restraint that
> > needs to be considered, and it is not the LWG succumbing to the
> > interests of big $$$?
>
> No, the ODbL does not care about outside constraints - if you want to
> use OSM data in a form that does not allow providing proper attribution
> and complying with legal requirements at the same time then you may not
> use OSM data at all.



+1, nobody forces you to display privacy or safety or other legal
information at the same time as the map or the map attribution. You could
present this information before any map is shown. Or this other information
could be shown in a popup / popover / alert like fashion.

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 20 February 2020, Simon Poole wrote:
> Am 19.02.2020 um 14:24 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> > In this case the statement that "small maps or multiple data
> > sources" are the only cases where the document does not require
> > visible attribution is wrong.  For example it is later stated that
> > visible attribution is not required if "there is legal or safety or
> > privacy information that needs to be presented with similar or
> > greater prominence to attribution" - which at least in the EU is
> > always the case!
>
> So you agree with us that this is an actual external restraint that
> needs to be considered, and it is not the LWG succumbing to the
> interests of big $$$?

No, the ODbL does not care about outside constraints - if you want to 
use OSM data in a form that does not allow providing proper attribution 
and complying with legal requirements at the same time then you may not 
use OSM data at all.

The formulation i cited is an explicit permission to data users to use 
external legal contraints as an excuse not to attribute visibly.  It 
does not require the legal contraint to even substantially prevent 
proper attribution, its mere existence is declared a valid excuse to 
forego visible attribution.

Anyway - the argument you cited was not actually about this weakening of 
the attribution requirement itself, it was about the fact that the 
guideline draft is inconsistent about this - first claiming 
that "Except for small maps or multiple data sources, as described 
below, attribution must be visible" but then declaring other exceptions 
from the visible attribution requirement.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Simon Poole]

Am 19.02.2020 um 14:24 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> In this case the statement that "small maps or multiple data sources" 
> are the only cases where the document does not require visible 
> attribution is wrong.  For example it is later stated that visible 
> attribution is not required if "there is legal or safety or privacy 
> information that needs to be presented with similar or greater 
> prominence to attribution" - which at least in the EU is always the 
> case!

So you agree with us that this is an actual external restraint that
needs to be considered, and it is not the LWG succumbing to the
interests of big $$$?




signature.asc
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Re: [Talk-it] Aggiornamento OSMit

[mbranco2]

Per esigenze organizzative è stato scambiato l'ordine degli interventi di
Maurizio Napolitano e Andrea Albani:
Napo : h10,30 - 11,30
Andrea: h 11,30 - 13,00

La pagina aggiornata:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Italy/Events/OSMit_2020


Il giorno dom 16 feb 2020 alle ore 20:18 mbranco2  ha
scritto:

> Ciao a tutti,
>
> la pagina wiki di OSMit è stata aggiornata:
> - è stato aggiunto l'intervento dei PoliMappers di Milano che
> descriveranno la loro attività, invitando gli studenti del Poli di Torino a
> costituire analogo gruppo.
> - Per chi non potrà essere a Torino sabato 22, ci sono i link per seguire
> gli interventi in videoconferenza.
>
> La pagina aggiornata:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Italy/Events/OSMit_2020
>
> A presto!
> Marco
>
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[talk-cz] Mapování za peníze

[Miroslav Suchy]

Pokud chcete někdo mapovat za peníze a na čerstvém vzduchu:

https://www.clovekvtisni.cz/en/career/hiking-trail-coordinator-723jo

#nalezeno v inboxu

Mirek

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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[Joost Schouppe]

Ah, really happy to get some positive feedback. We'll be adapting our
standard "community consultation" mail to make it clear that a simple
encouragement is also really welcome!

Joost

Op do 20 feb. 2020 11:26 schreef Tomas Novotny :

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:16:35 +0100
> Joost Schouppe  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local
> > Chapter on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting.
> >
> > However, we would really like to hear from those that support the chapter
> > too. Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech organization become
> an
> > official Local Chapter?
>
> yes, that would be really nice.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tomas (osm nick 'stoupa')
>
> > --
> > Automatic translation:
> > Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local
> > Chapter na pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.
> >
> > Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter podporují.
> > Každý, kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala oficiální Local
> > Chapter ?
> >
> > All the best,
> > Joost
> > OSMF Secretary
> >
> > Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe  >:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
> > > stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
> > > republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
> > > komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
> > > abychom je mohli vypořádat.
> > >
> > > Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu Nadace
> > > OSM:
> > >
> > >
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
> > >
> > > Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
> > > můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org.
> Těšíme
> > > se na vaše reakce.
> > >
> > > Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost.
> > > S pozdravem
> > >
> > > Joost Schouppe
> > > Secretary
> > > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi again,
> > >
> > > I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by Tom.
> > > Below is the original message in English.
> > >
> > >
> > > You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has applied to
> > > become an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As
> part
> > > of the application process, I am asking you, the community, to share
> any
> > > questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.
> > >
> > > You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application
> on
> > > the OSMF website:
> > >
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
> > >
> > >
> > > We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb 2020
> + 14
> > > days).
> > > You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org
> > > I am looking forward to hearing your responses.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you to the Czech team for this submission.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Joost Schouppe
> > > Secretary
> > > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> > >
> > > Name & Registered Office:
> > > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> > > St John's Innovation Centre
> > > Cowley Road
> > > Cambridge
> > > CB4 0WS
> > > United Kingdom
> > > A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
> > > Registration No. 05912761.
> > >
>
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Re: [talk-cz] Dotaz z OSM fóra - jak otagovat nepoužívanou tramvajovou trať?

[jzvc via talk-cz]

Cus,

presne abandoned=tram bys pouzivat nemel vubec nikde.

Pouziva se to takhle:

railway=disused
disused:railway=tram

nebo samo

railway=abandoned
abandoned:railway=tram

A duvod je ten, ze tohle tagovani muzes mit klidne na silnici, kde pak 
neni zjevny, k cemu se to vztahuje.


Dne 18.2.2020 v 21:55 Michal Pustějovský napsal(a):

Ahoj,

Tady je příklad: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/351837942

Pokud už není ani udržovaná a neplánuje se v dohledné době provoz, tak 
railway=abandoned, abandoned=tram. Pokud jsou koleje vytrhané, tak 
railway=razed, razed=tram.


Měj se,
Michal


Dne 18.02.2020 v 21:39 Marián Kyral napsal(a):

Ahoj,
na českém OSM fóru přistál dotaz na značení nepoužívané 
tramvajové/električkové/šalin trati v Košicích ;-)  Umí někdo poradit?


https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=68692

Díky,
Marián

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[OSM-talk-fr] Osmose et Id

[osm . sanspourriel]

Osmose via OpenRailwayMap me dit que la gare de Bannalec,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/493447175 devrait être modélisée comme
nœud et non comme chemin.

Premier soucis : sur le wiki
 ça
peut-être un nœud ou une surface (mais contrairement à ce qui a été
cartographié ça doit être toute la gare et non seulement le bâtiment).
C'est seulement OpenRailwayMap

qui exige que ce soit un point.

building=train_station serait plus adapté. OK.

J'ai l'impression que pour regrouper bâtiments et arrêts on crée
maintenant plutôt une relation stop_area.

N'est-il pas préférable de supprimer la possibilité de la surface, comme
ça Wiki et OpenRaiwayMap sont compatibles ?

Ensuite Id propose d'ajouter public_transport=station, OK.

Par contre sur le stop_position, Id propose de remplacer
public_transport=stop_position par public_transport=station !

Je vois que Halbtax a récemment changé la page stop_position pour en
limiter l'usage :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Apublic_transport%3Dstop_position=revision=1922823=1805518

Ça a été discuté sur la liste tagging ? C'est une initiative personnelle ?

Ici, ça ferait une station sur une voie, alors que c'est à éviter.

Jean-Yvon

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bon usage de tracktype

[Florimond Berthoux]

Le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 à 12:48, rainerU  a écrit :

> Merci pour vos commentaires. Ma conclusion est que je continue de saisir
> tracktype comme je l'ai fait dans le passé, conformément à la définition
> du wiki
> grade1="revêtement dur de type asphalte ou composée de matériaux très
> compactés". La version anglaise est plus précise car elle parle de "sealed
> surface" et renvoie vers une page wikipédia.
>
> surface=* est moins subjectif que tracktype=* et devrait être interprété
> par les
> routeurs avec priorité sur tracktype, si ce n'est pas déjà le cas.
> J'ajouterai
> donc surface=* aux highway=track que je crée et à ceux que j'ai créé dans
> le passé.
>

Surface est probablement moins subjectif que tracktype par contre il n’est
pas forcément plus précis, et donc plus facilement utilisable par un
routeur.
Par exemple, pour définir la qualité de surface sur CyclOSM on utilise en
priorité smoothness, puis tracktype puis surface. Parce qu’un surface
gravel/ground/... peuvent être très roulant comme très peu roulant.



> Je donnerai peut-être une chance à smoothness=* que j'utilise rarement à
> cause
> des noms de la clé et des valeurs qui incitent à une utilisation trop
> subjective. Mais si tout le monde suit bien la description sur le wiki
> cela peut
> être complémentaire à et même remplacer tracktype=*.
>
> Les highway=track que l'utilisateur cricri a modifié de grade3/grade2 en
> grade1,
> quand je sais que ce sont des pistes empierrées et sans revêtement
> stabilisé je
> les remettrai en grade2 + surface=unpaved/ground/gravel
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>


-- 
Florimond Berthoux
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bon usage de tracktype

[rainerU]

Merci pour vos commentaires. Ma conclusion est que je continue de saisir 
tracktype comme je l'ai fait dans le passé, conformément à la définition du wiki 
grade1="revêtement dur de type asphalte ou composée de matériaux très 
compactés". La version anglaise est plus précise car elle parle de "sealed 
surface" et renvoie vers une page wikipédia.


surface=* est moins subjectif que tracktype=* et devrait être interprété par les 
routeurs avec priorité sur tracktype, si ce n'est pas déjà le cas. J'ajouterai 
donc surface=* aux highway=track que je crée et à ceux que j'ai créé dans le passé.


Je donnerai peut-être une chance à smoothness=* que j'utilise rarement à cause 
des noms de la clé et des valeurs qui incitent à une utilisation trop 
subjective. Mais si tout le monde suit bien la description sur le wiki cela peut 
être complémentaire à et même remplacer tracktype=*.


Les highway=track que l'utilisateur cricri a modifié de grade3/grade2 en grade1, 
quand je sais que ce sont des pistes empierrées et sans revêtement stabilisé je 
les remettrai en grade2 + surface=unpaved/ground/gravel




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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 20 February 2020, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> Artificial "yes", but the main thing is that it is small enough to
> ensure that it will essentially never be a substantial extract, on
> the other hand large enough that you can cover the location of your
> entrance, parking lot or whatever in it, with other words, large
> enough to be useful.

First: This has absolutely no place in an attribution guideline, in 
particular since we already have a guideline specifically dealing with 
the subject of what is a substantial extract of OSM data.

Second: You are here essentially declaring almost all indoor mapping 
performed within OSM (with the exception of really large structures 
like large airports) to be insubstantial and therefore not protected by 
the ODbL and free to take and use without attribution or share-alike.

Given the highly variable mapping density in OSM and the fact that there 
is no limit in how detailed people may map things the whole idea of 
having a physical area limit for defining what is substantial seems 
inappropriate for OSM.

And yes, that even more applies to the 1000 inhabitants limit which even 
back in 2014 when that was adopted was not appropriate.  You can find 
areas with less than 1000 inhabitants in OSM with tens of thousands of 
features and many megabytes of data.  Considering that insubstantial is 
fairly outrageous and as others have pointed out it would also not be 
compliant with the the obligations OSM has towards data providers who 
provide us data under the condition we distribute it under the ODbL, 
not to put it effectively in the public domain.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 20 February 2020, Simon Poole wrote:
> >
> > So the recommendation for small devices can and should only be that
> > if a data user uses OSM data under conditions where the usual
> > attribution is technically not possible or economically not
> > desirable they have to choose a different form that has *an equal
> > or larger likeliness of making the user aware of the OSM data use*.
>
> The ODbL requires the attribution to be "reasonably calculated ...",
> which includes, naturally, "where the user would typically expect to
> find attribution". That can, and will differ based on the actual
> device displaying it. There is no requirement in the ODbL that all
> devices need to be treated equally or the same.

Please read what i wrote carefully.  I specifically pointed out that 
data users are free to attribute in any form they like as long as it is 
equivalent or better in making the user aware of the use of OSM data as 
the visible attribution in the corner of the map.  That an attribution 
hidden under an 'i' visible only on user interaction does not qualify 
as such is self evident i think.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 11:53 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole :

> The ODbL requires the attribution to be "reasonably calculated ...",
> which includes, naturally, "where the user would typically expect to
> find attribution".



indeed, that's why I posted extracts of the requirements of the
competitors. All of them have clear guidance, from the examples, only Here
allows not having the attribution on the map, while both, google and mapbox
require a permanent logo on all kinds of devices on the map and
additionally an attribution text. Here says you may have a section in the
settings that must be called ‘About HERE’ (i.e. standardized, specific
prescription) on small mobile devices.

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Simon Poole]

Am 20.02.2020 um 11:34 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> What you don't seem to understand is that there is nothing in the ODbL 
> that allows the conclusion that for OSM data use on certain devices 
> there is a *lesser* requirement for making the user aware of the use of 
> OSM data than on others (based on physical size or other factors).
>
> So the recommendation for small devices can and should only be that if a 
> data user uses OSM data under conditions where the usual attribution is 
> technically not possible or economically not desirable they have to 
> choose a different form that has *an equal or larger likeliness of 
> making the user aware of the OSM data use*.

The ODbL requires the attribution to be "reasonably calculated ...",
which includes, naturally, "where the user would typically expect to
find attribution". That can, and will differ based on the actual device
displaying it. There is no requirement in the ODbL that all devices need
to be treated equally or the same.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 11:32 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole :

> Am 20.02.2020 um 11:19 schrieb Christian Quest:
> >
> > - the 10.000m2 limit, this is completely artificial
> >
> >
> Artificial "yes", but the main thing is that it is small enough to
> ensure that it will essentially never be a substantial extract, on the
> other hand large enough that you can cover the location of your
> entrance, parking lot or whatever in it, with other words, large enough
> to be useful.



if you are operating a service with many users, and showing for every user
a small related map of  m2, it would be substantial (together) but you
would not have to attribute?

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Christoph Hormann]

I agree that talking about specific forms of attribution is pointless 
here.  Each corporate OSM data user has a huge department of people who 
every day do no other thing than thinking about new and creative ways 
to pry for their users' attention and use it in the company's interest.  
They do not need the OSMF's help with that (or if they do they have a 
more serious problem).

What you don't seem to understand is that there is nothing in the ODbL 
that allows the conclusion that for OSM data use on certain devices 
there is a *lesser* requirement for making the user aware of the use of 
OSM data than on others (based on physical size or other factors).

So the recommendation for small devices can and should only be that if a 
data user uses OSM data under conditions where the usual attribution is 
technically not possible or economically not desirable they have to 
choose a different form that has *an equal or larger likeliness of 
making the user aware of the OSM data use*.

If you want to give specific examples for how to do this then you should 
use examples that clearly meet this requirements.  A hidden attribution 
evidently does not.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Simon Poole]

Am 20.02.2020 um 11:19 schrieb Christian Quest:
>
> - the 10.000m2 limit, this is completely artificial
>
>
Artificial "yes", but the main thing is that it is small enough to
ensure that it will essentially never be a substantial extract, on the
other hand large enough that you can cover the location of your
entrance, parking lot or whatever in it, with other words, large enough
to be useful.



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Re: [OSM-talk] missing maps? no: missing GPS traces.

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Mario,

I switched from an app to the dedicated GPS device. It is for now the 
Garmin eTrex 35 Touch (no affiliation). It is capable to record a GPS 
trace for about 20 hours on the pair of cheap AA alkaline batteries.


Here is, for example, the 431 km GPS trace I recorded in Mexico from 
inside a bus: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 , or 
the 488 km GPS trace I recorded in Ukraine from inside the train. I 
published these traces also at the OSM.


This device is using EGNOS [1], the European Geostationary Navigation 
Overlay Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and 
the WAAS [2], the Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America.


This GPS tracker is quite rugged. It can survive being in the rain for 
hours or dropped on a hard surface. But most important it works for 
hours without discharging my communication device.


It has got also its share of disadvantages. It has modes for hiking, 
cycling, climbing, and even fishing, but no modes for the train or the 
bus. If you look carefully at the above mentioned traces you may notice 
that they were recorded in the cycling mode. And after the device's app 
uploads them to the website, I receive superfluous automatic 
notifications about reward badges for long distance cycling. However, it 
should be clear to the software that no one could cycle 431 kilometers 
with the average speed of 69 km/h.


I think of upgrading my GPS logger. I would like to have one with the 
modes for the train, bus, and car, in addition to cycling and hiking, a 
bit larger display, but also to keep ruggedness, long endurance, and 
portability. I think it would be a good idea to have also an external 
GPS sensor with a cable of about 3 meters (10 feet). For example, to 
install it on the roof of a survey car. But I am not sure about the 
external sensor, since such a long cable may weaken the received GPS signal.


[1] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Geostationary_Navigation_Overlay_Service

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 17-Feb-20 18:21, Mario Frasca wrote:

Hi everyone.

mapping Santa Fé, Veraguas, Panamá.  allegedly, a "strategic tourist 
attraction" for this country, but what's the strategy, I'm at odds 
understanding that.  anyhow.  I'm trying to convince the municipality 
to help me helping them, and my plan is to: (step 1) collect traces, 
(step 2) process them together with local input and bing aerial 
pictures and integrate the information into OSM, (optional step 3) 
produce a nice large format map that makes the effort visible to 
people not using osm.org.


the "collect traces" step is where I'm most perplexed.  I've been 
walking around, travelling by local transport, uploaded the traces to 
OSM and my perplexity is how come aren't there any but really truly 
any other traces than what I've uploaded the last few weeks, and one 
by some German guy in 2009.


no, wait, I'm not just complaining for the sake of it, I'm looking for 
opportunities.


you see, we are in 2020, and people still do not know OSM even 
exists.  just count them: we have 1.35 billion people walking with a 
handheld device, most of which with a GPS, and only 10 thousand 
installations of OSM Tracker for Android.  that's a really negligible 
percentage, homeopathic almost.


I opened an issue on the osmtracker-android github project, and I 
invite you to contribute ideas there.


https://github.com/labexp/osmtracker-android/issues/234

my ideal scenery would be: one arrives at an airport, or a bus 
terminal, and notices a poster advertising a 'minimal controls' osm 
tracker, with a QR code to download it.  installation is followed by 
opening it, and the program suggests creating an OSM account, and some 
default options for uploading traces.  then the process would be 
automatic: you start recording, you stop recording and at that moment 
the program asks "do you want to upload this to OSM?"  (now this 
option is hidden behind a long-press, and is followed by the 
not-yet-solved need to register on OSM.  let me tell you: casual users 
stop here.)


Mario


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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[Tomas Novotny]

Hi,

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:16:35 +0100
Joost Schouppe  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local
> Chapter on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting.
> 
> However, we would really like to hear from those that support the chapter
> too. Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech organization become an
> official Local Chapter?

yes, that would be really nice.

Best regards,

Tomas (osm nick 'stoupa')

> --
> Automatic translation:
> Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local
> Chapter na pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.
> 
> Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter podporují.
> Každý, kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala oficiální Local
> Chapter ?
> 
> All the best,
> Joost
> OSMF Secretary
> 
> Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe :
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
> > stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
> > republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
> > komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
> > abychom je mohli vypořádat.
> >
> > Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu Nadace
> > OSM:
> >
> > https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
> >
> > Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
> > můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org. Těšíme
> > se na vaše reakce.
> >
> > Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost.
> > S pozdravem
> >
> > Joost Schouppe
> > Secretary
> > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> >
> >
> > Hi again,
> >
> > I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by Tom.
> > Below is the original message in English.
> >
> >
> > You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has applied to
> > become an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part
> > of the application process, I am asking you, the community, to share any
> > questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.
> >
> > You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application on
> > the OSMF website:
> > https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
> >
> >
> > We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb 2020 + 14
> > days).
> > You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org
> > I am looking forward to hearing your responses.
> >
> >
> > Thank you to the Czech team for this submission.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Joost Schouppe
> > Secretary
> > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> >
> > Name & Registered Office:
> > OpenStreetMap Foundation
> > St John's Innovation Centre
> > Cowley Road
> > Cambridge
> > CB4 0WS
> > United Kingdom
> > A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
> > Registration No. 05912761.
> >  

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Re: [talk-cz] MapTiler mapy na OpenStreetMap.cz

[xkomc...@centrum.cz]

Ahoj Vope,

tu Topo mapu čeká velká úprava (vezme si to na starosti člověk, který 
rozumí kartografii), ale chvilku to potrvá. Každopádně díky za 
připomínku, určitě ji dám jako jeden z bodů, co by se mělo zlepšit.


Jirka

On 19. 02. 20 0:10, Petr Vozdecký wrote:

Ahoj Jirko,
díky za vrstvu!
... nicméně - šlo by tu turistickou mapu, když už je zaměřená na 
"pohyb v terénu", naučit vhodně zobrazovat obyčejné lesní cesty? 
Světle šedá barva zaniká na pozadí daleko výraznější barvy vrstevnic a 
dokonce i vodstva. V lokalitách s hustšími vrstevnicemi jsou cesty 
prakticky neviditelné... Mělo by to být asi spíše naopak...

:)
Díky

vop


-- Původní e-mail --
Od: xkomc...@centrum.cz 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 18. 2. 2020 20:27:18
Předmět: [talk-cz] MapTiler mapy na OpenStreetMap.cz


Ahojte,

možná jste si už všimli, že na openstreetmap.cz přibyly nové mapové
podklady. Konkrétně:

* MapTiler Streets:
https://openstreetmap.cz/#map=15/50.0898/14.4305=g - mapa
zaměřená na silniční infrastrukturu

* MapTiler Topo:
https://openstreetmap.cz/#map=14/49.2342/16.6997=yK - mapa
slouží
především pro pohyb v terénu (viz odkaz, kde je přes ně daná vrstva
turistických tras)


Obě mapy jsou z dílny MapTileru, kde Tomáš Kašpárek vytvořil účet na
komunitní email (díky za tohle a pomoc s pull requestem). Nějaké
limity
co se počtu requestů týče není třeba řešit, k open-source/open-data
komunitám (a OSM komunitě zvlášť) jsme velice vstřícní (takže
znáte-li
nějakou takovou komunitu, které by se hodily podkladové mapy,
klidně mi
napište nebo si rovnou vytvořte účet dejte mi vědět).


A jelikož Tomáš o tomto mailu mluvil jako o "reklamě", tak teda
nějakou
zkusím udělat: určitě mrkněte na https://www.maptiler.cz/ , kde
teď máme
takové věci jako vektorovou mapu v S-JTSK (satelit v křovákovi
bude až
tak za týden, za dva) a taky sháníme do nové brněnské kanceláře další
lidi: https://www.maptiler.com/jobs/


Tak snad vše :-)

Jirka Komárek




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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[xkomc...@centrum.cz]

Hoi Joost,

Of course, we are excited to join the OSMF as a Local Chapter! :-)

Best regards,

Jiri

On 20. 02. 20 9:16, Joost Schouppe wrote:

Hi,

Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local 
Chapter on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting.


However, we would really like to hear from those that support the 
chapter too. Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech 
organization become an official Local Chapter?


--
Automatic translation:
Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local 
Chapter na pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.


Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter 
podporují. Každý, kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala 
oficiální Local Chapter ?


All the best,
Joost
OSMF Secretary

Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe 
mailto:jo...@osmfoundation.org>>:


Hi all,

Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
abychom je mohli vypořádat.

Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu
Nadace OSM:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia


Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org
. Těšíme
se na vaše reakce.

Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost.
S pozdravem

Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation


Hi again,

I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by
Tom. Below is the original message in English.


You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has
applied to become an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap
Foundation. As part of the application process, I am asking you,
the community, to share any questions, comments or concerns that
you have, so we can address them.

You can find all the information about this Local Chapter
application on the OSMF website:
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia



We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb
2020 + 14 days).
You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org

I am looking forward to hearing your responses.


Thank you to the Czech team for this submission.


Best regards,


Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation

Name & Registered Office:
OpenStreetMap Foundation
St John's Innovation Centre
Cowley Road
Cambridge
CB4 0WS
United Kingdom
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
Registration No. 05912761.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Christian Quest]

Le 19/02/2020 à 09:59, Simon Poole a écrit :

The LWG has now integrated feedback from the initial airing in August
last year, from a total of three sessions at SOTM-US and SOTM in
Heidelberg, feedback from the OSMF board and from the wider OSM community.

Barring any major late developing issues, we intend to forward this to
the OSMF board for formal approval at the next LWG meeting on the 12th
of March. If you have any comments please feel free to add them to the
wikis talk page.

The updated document can be found here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Attribution_Guideline

Simon

PS: please disregard the numbering in the document, that will not be
present on the OSMF wiki.


Thank you Simon !

Like many others, I hardly agree on 2 things:

- the 10.000m2 limit, this is completely artificial

- the mobile rule allowing an interaction to access the attribution


The minimal "(C) OpenStreetMap" attribution requires very few pixels, 
less than 150. When this space is available, direct attribution should 
be there, whatever the size of the screen or type of device.


When multiple attributions are required (from OpenStreetMap and others) 
and space is limited, a single "Copyright" with link or interaction 
could replace it. This eliminates the battle for screen space between 
Mapbox logo vs OpenStreetMap (because we're indirectly talking of that) 
and moves both at the same attribution level.


Setting such a fixed limit could also solve the thumbnail problem... a 
150px wide image can't deliver so much map data...



--

Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Nuno Caldeira]

Good luck with Mapbox trying to comply with odbl, OSMF corporate foundation
and community expectations, to their their of service and the attribution
you just quoted. They will try to close the ticket several times without
solving the issues. wall hammering.

The examples you gave were checked and as from an ethical point is what any
company or osm data user would do. Sadly, this is happening and companies
either ignore or state that odbl doesn't mention how to attribute.
Therefore this guidance

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020, 09:26 Martin Koppenhoefer, 
wrote:

> Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 01:06 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org>
>
>
> 3. https://docs.mapbox.com/help/how-mapbox-works/attribution/
> "Mapbox requires two types of attribution: a wordmark and text
> attribution."
> "The *Mapbox wordtmark* is a small image containing the stylized word
> "Mapbox". It typically resides on the bottom left corner of a map. While
> you may move the wordmark to a different corner of the map, we require the
> Mapbox wordmark to appear on our maps so that Mapbox and its maps get
> proper credit. If you wish to otherwise move or remove the Mapbox wordmark,
> contact Mapbox sales."
> "The text attribution contains at least three links: © Mapbox, ©
> OpenStreetMap and Improve this map. You must properly attribute and link
> Mapbox and OpenStreetMap when using the Mapbox Streets tileset."
>
> (note that the wordmark remains visible on smaller screen sizes, while the
> Textattribution, including reference to OSM, is collapsed into a button).
> This graphic shows typical MapBox attribution in mobile apps (here iOS but
> Android is similar):
> https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/attribution/ios-attribution.gif
> (the mapbox wordmark and an anonymous i, which on tap pops up an action
> sheet with 3 times mention of "mapbox" and 1 time Openstreetmap).
>
> They also state: "By default, the Mapbox *wordmark and information button*
> are located on the bottom left of the map. You may move these elements to a
> different position, but *they must stay on the map view.*"
> (this is explicitly for mobile devices like phones, emphasis by me)
>
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[Mikoláš Štrajt]

Hi,


Czech openstreetmap community is relatively small and OpenStreetMap Česká
republika z.s. already is (de facto) local chapter, as it maintains
openstreetmap.cz website.




I hope making it official will help the community.





--


Mikoláš Štrajt / Severák




-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Joost Schouppe 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 20. 2. 2020 9:20:55
Předmět: Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter
application
"

Hi, 



Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local
Chapter on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting. 




However, we would really like to hear from those that support the chapter 
too. Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech organization become an
official Local Chapter? 




--

Automatic translation:
Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local Chapter
na pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.

Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter podporují.
Každý, kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala oficiální Local
Chapter ?




All the best, 

Joost

OSMF Secretary 




Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe mailto:jo...@osmfoundation.org)>:

"

Hi all,


Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
abychom je mohli vypořádat.


Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu Nadace OSM:


https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia) 


Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org
(http://osmfoundation.org). Těšíme
se na vaše reakce.


Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost.
S pozdravem





Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation




Hi again,

I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by Tom. 
Below is the original message in English.





You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has applied to
become an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part of
the application process, I am asking you, the community, to share any
questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.

You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application on the
OSMF website: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/
Applications/Czechia
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia) 


We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb 2020 + 14
days).
You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org
(http://osmfoundation.org)
I am looking forward to hearing your responses.



Thank you to the Czech team for this submission.


Best regards,



Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation


Name & Registered Office:
OpenStreetMap Foundation
St John's Innovation Centre
Cowley Road
Cambridge
CB4 0WS
United Kingdom
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
Registration No. 05912761.

"


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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 20. Feb. 2020 um 01:06 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org>:

> And "mobile devices may have attribution after one interaction"
> absolutely MUST be removed.
>
> This part looks like written by Mapbox copyright lawyers
> to legitimise their unacceptable attribution hiding.
>
> Hiding attribution behind "i" icon
> is not fulfilling ODBL.
> It is clearly not enough to make clear that data is from OSM.
>
> Allowing to keep that means that we capitulate
> and allow Mapbox, maps.me, Facebook and others
> to use our data without a proper attribution.
>
> There is enough space on mobile devices
> to show a proper attribution in the bottom
> right corner! (or some other corner).
>



To get additional data points for the question how attribution "reasonably
calculated" to make users aware, would look like, let's look at the
provisions that other map service and data providers require:


1. https://www.google.com/permissions/geoguidelines/attr-guide/
"
Attribution information will appear automatically on the content if you:
embed an interactive map using the HTML provided on Google Maps;
use one our Geo APIs to create"

additionally, the G adds automatically a colored logo and states:
"your text must be _as visible_ as it would have been if you had used the
default text that we provide."




2.
https://here.widencollective.com/portals/a6jjvn6x/08CopyrightPrinciplesGuidelinesPage
"
Any material (e.g. the Map canvas, Web pages, Presentations, Marketing
Material, Advertising, etc.) owned by HERE and used by external parties
should have the following copyright notice:
© 201X HERE"
...
For material in page format, the copyright notice should be placed at the
left or right bottom corner of every page of the material.
In tablet and desktop sized products showing the map canvas, the HERE
copyright should be displayed on the map. In mobile handsets, including
watches and embedded in-car systems, the HERE copyright may alternatively
be displayed in the ‘About HERE’ section in the Settings. In applications
supporting all display sizes, the HERE copyright should be displayed on the
map and in the ‘About HERE’ section in the Settings.
External parties may not remove existing copyright notices from HERE
material."

and "In application interfaces or map displays, if space constraints do not
allow display on separate lines, then display both notices on a single line
at least two spaces apart, as follows:
© 201X Partner © 201X HERE"



3. https://docs.mapbox.com/help/how-mapbox-works/attribution/
"Mapbox requires two types of attribution: a wordmark and text attribution."
"The *Mapbox wordmark* is a small image containing the stylized word
"Mapbox". It typically resides on the bottom left corner of a map. While
you may move the wordmark to a different corner of the map, we require the
Mapbox wordmark to appear on our maps so that Mapbox and its maps get
proper credit. If you wish to otherwise move or remove the Mapbox wordmark,
contact Mapbox sales."
"The text attribution contains at least three links: © Mapbox, ©
OpenStreetMap and Improve this map. You must properly attribute and link
Mapbox and OpenStreetMap when using the Mapbox Streets tileset."

(note that the wordmark remains visible on smaller screen sizes, while the
Textattribution, including reference to OSM, is collapsed into a button).
This graphic shows typical MapBox attribution in mobile apps (here iOS but
Android is similar):
https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/attribution/ios-attribution.gif
(the mapbox wordmark and an anonymous i, which on tap pops up an action
sheet with 3 times mention of "mapbox" and 1 time Openstreetmap).

They also state: "By default, the Mapbox *wordmark and information button*
are located on the bottom left of the map. You may move these elements to a
different position, but *they must stay on the map view.*"
(this is explicitly for mobile devices like phones, emphasis by me)


Cheers
Martin
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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[Dalibor Jelínek]

Hi Joost,

yes, please. I would like this.

 

Best regards,

Dalibor 

 

From: Joost Schouppe  
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:17 AM
To: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

 

Hi, 

 

Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local Chapter 
on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting. 

 

However, we would really like to hear from those that support the chapter too. 
Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech organization become an official 
Local Chapter? 

 

--

Automatic translation:

Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local Chapter na 
pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.

Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter podporují. Každý, 
kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala oficiální Local Chapter ?

 

All the best, 

Joost

OSMF Secretary 

 

Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe mailto:jo...@osmfoundation.org> >:

Hi all, 

Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
abychom je mohli vypořádat.

Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu Nadace OSM:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia 

Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org 
 . Těšíme
se na vaše reakce.

Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost. 
S pozdravem

Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation

 

Hi again,

I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by Tom. Below 
is the original message in English.


You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has applied to become 
an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part of the 
application process, I am asking you, the community, to share any questions, 
comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.

You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application on the 
OSMF website: 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia 


We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb 2020 + 14 
days).
You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org 
 
I am looking forward to hearing your responses.


Thank you to the Czech team for this submission. 


Best regards,


Joost Schouppe
Secretary
OpenStreetMap Foundation

Name & Registered Office:
OpenStreetMap Foundation
St John's Innovation Centre
Cowley Road
Cambridge
CB4 0WS
United Kingdom
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
Registration No. 05912761.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Simon Poole]

Folks, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, obviously the point didn't get
across. I apologize and re-state:

For many legal and marketing reasons providing attribution to "OSM" is
not something that is likely ever going to be supported or recommended
by the OSMF as sufficient.

This is nothing new and has nothing to do with the proposed guideline
outside of reducing the options.

Simon

Am 20.02.2020 um 00:44 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
>
>
>
> 19 Feb 2020, 21:05 by si...@poole.ch:
>
>
> Am 19.02.2020 um 20:17 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
>> 19 Feb 2020, 17:22 by dieterdre...@gmail.com
>> :
>>
>> But I stick to the comment that 500px are far too many (=1000
>> actual retina pixels or 1500 px on a retina@3). 
>>
>> Yes, you may easily fit at least "© OSM"
>> with link in such space.
>
> Just that people don't get the wrong idea, using attributing to
> OSM is completely out of the question, since when does Online
> Soccer Manager distribute geo-data?
>
> Obviously, it is only ok when you are constrained 
> for space and there is actually no
> space for longer text.
>
> If you have let's say 450 pixels then you
> should use full name OpenStreetMap.
>
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Re: [talk-cz] OpenStreetMap Česká republika Local Chapter application

[Joost Schouppe]

Hi,

Glad to hear no opposition. We have put a vote on accepting the Local
Chapter on the agenda of the next OSMF Board meeting.

However, we would really like to hear from those that support the chapter
too. Anyone here who would like to see the OSM Czech organization become an
official Local Chapter?

--
Automatic translation:
Jsem rád, že neslyším žádnou námitku. Hlasovali jsme o přijetí Local
Chapter na pořad jednání příští schůze rady OSMF.

Opravdu bychom však rádi slyšeli od těch, kteří tuto Chapter podporují.
Každý, kdo by si přál, aby se česká organizace OSM stala oficiální Local
Chapter ?

All the best,
Joost
OSMF Secretary

Op ma 3 feb. 2020 11:19 schreef Joost Schouppe :

> Hi all,
>
> Jak možná víte, spolek OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. podal žádost
> stát se oficiálním zastoupením Nadace OpenStreetMap (pro Českou
> republiku). Jako součást přijímacího procesu se ptáme vás, české OSM
> komunity, zda k tomu máte nějaké otázky, komentáře nebo připomínky,
> abychom je mohli vypořádat.
>
> Všechny informace o žádosti o lokální zastoupení najdete na webu Nadace
> OSM:
>
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
>
> Tuto diskuzi uzavřeme od teď za dva týdny. Reagovat
> můžete sem nebo zaslat zprávu radě boart (at) osmfoundation.org. Těšíme
> se na vaše reakce.
>
> Děkujeme českému týmu za tuto žádost.
> S pozdravem
>
> Joost Schouppe
> Secretary
> OpenStreetMap Foundation
>
>
> Hi again,
>
> I don't speak Czech - the translation above was kindly provided by Tom.
> Below is the original message in English.
>
>
> You may be aware that OpenStreetMap Česká republika z.s. has applied to
> become an official Local Chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. As part
> of the application process, I am asking you, the community, to share any
> questions, comments or concerns that you have, so we can address them.
>
> You can find all the information about this Local Chapter application on
> the OSMF website:
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Czechia
>
>
> We will close this round of discussion two weeks from now (3 Feb 2020 + 14
> days).
> You can reply here or send a message to board at osmfoundation.org
> I am looking forward to hearing your responses.
>
>
> Thank you to the Czech team for this submission.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Joost Schouppe
> Secretary
> OpenStreetMap Foundation
>
> Name & Registered Office:
> OpenStreetMap Foundation
> St John's Innovation Centre
> Cowley Road
> Cambridge
> CB4 0WS
> United Kingdom
> A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales.
> Registration No. 05912761.
>
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