Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Markus Fischer writes:
>  > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped
> (probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to start
> mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking at this does
> not sound like a good approach)?
>
> Any place there aren't a lot of people.
>

Or a lot of people, but not exactly reliable access to internet resources.
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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Richard Fairhurst]

Minh Nguyen wrote:
> The entire state of West Virginia -- no exaggeration. The original data 
> imported from TIGER is badly misaligned throughout this state 
> and rarely resembles the road network at all.

*shudders*

Yes. Genuinely the worst geometry I've encountered anywhere in the US, and
that's saying something.

Richard



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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Minh Nguyen]

On 2016-11-12 14:44, Markus Fischer wrote:

Hi,

I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped (probably
due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to start mapping
areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking at this does not
sound like a good approach)?


The entire state of West Virginia -- no exaggeration. The original data 
imported from TIGER is badly misaligned throughout this state and rarely 
resembles the road network at all. Making matters worse, many public 
roads wind through hollows that even in the best aerial imagery are 
obscured by the surrounding mountains' shadows. Fortunately, newer TIGER 
data (available as an overlay in iD) is very good and makes it possible 
to clean up the mess.


While you're there, West Virginia's hilltop mining roads and power lines 
are much easier to trace from aerial imagery. I personally find mapping 
these features to be a good break from the stress of untangling TIGER roads.


--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Richard Fairhurst]

Markus Fischer wrote:
> I am new to this and the area where I live is very well 
> mapped (probably due to high density of tech workers). 
> Where do I go to start mapping areas that are less well 
> mapped (me aimlessly poking at this does not sound 
> like a good approach)?

Possibly the biggest issue with OSM data in the US is rural roads from the
original TIGER import which haven't been touched. These were imported as
highway=residential, which in developed countries in OSM generally means a
paved road principally used to access residential properties. Sometimes they
are indeed rural residential roads, but often they're rough tracks, ditches
or worse.

Fixing these to their correct highway types is an easy (but massive!) job. I
tend to broadly go by this rule of thumb, though obviously being aware of
local circumstances:

* well-maintained paved road with centreline -> highway=tertiary
* other paved road -> highway=unclassified
* unpaved graded country road -> highway=unclassified, surface=unpaved (or
=gravel, =dirt...)
* unpaved road to houses -> highway=residential, surface=unpaved (or
=gravel, dirt...)
   or for driveways: -> highway=service, surface=unpaved (or =gravel,
dirt...)
* track, not suitable for general traffic -> highway=track

and I have function key shortcuts set up in Potlatch 2 for most of these.

Where a road genuinely is a paved residential road then you can just remove
the 'tiger:reviewed=no' tag (or change the 'no' to 'aerial'). Please don't
remove this tag if you haven't reviewed the road type, because otherwise
routers will think "oh, that must be a decent residential road" and send
poor unsuspecting bicyclists to die on rough tracks in the desert. :(

http://cycle.travel/map (my site!) shows rural roads with
highway=residential, tiger:reviewed=no as faint dashed grey lines when you
zoom in - for example,
http://cycle.travel/map?lat=33.9483=-102.0613=13 - and it has a
little icon for editing this area in OSM right at the bottom right corner.
It's not updated very often so don't use it as a record of what you've done,
but it's useful for identifying areas that need fixing.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Elliott Plack]

Markus, take a look at the TIGER Battlegrid! It highlights areas where
there have not been a lot of edits made to the original street data import.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_Battlegrid

Another fun tool for finding things to fix is Improve OSM.

http://improveosm.org/#background=Bing=2.00/0.0/0.0

Both of tools highlight areas of the highest priority, so you're focusing
your energy where it matters most.

Best,

Elliott

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 1:06 AM Mark Wagner  wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:22:06 -0500
> Russ Nelson  wrote:
>
> > Markus Fischer writes:
> >  > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped
> >  > (probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to
> >  > start mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking
> >  > at this does not sound like a good approach)?
> >
> > Oh, and you can always do some work in Pennsylvania. Here, let's pick
> > a place at random, Thompson,
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/41.8666/-75.5154
> >
> > Look at Willow Street against Bing aerial imagery. It's badly aligned.
> > Look at Main Street. Also badly aligned.
> > Look at the cemetery west of Main. It's not on the map.
> > Jefferson, East Jackson, Water, all badly aligned.
> > Four bodies of water north of the village, all missing.
> > A little creek coming in from the west and going into a mill pond.
> >
> > There's LOTS to do, and you don't need to have ever gone to the
> > place. You can just see it from the air. You can even see where an
> > intersection has traffic lights -- the aerials are that good.
>
> I wouldn't recommend pure armchair mapping as a starting point for
> someone just getting in to OSM.  There are too many "gotchas": to take
> your traffic light example, there are patterns of street lights that
> look similar to traffic lights if you're just judging from the shadows
> they cast.  Or looking at Thompson, you missed the fact that Starrucca
> Creek proceeds to exit the millpond, flow west through Thompson, and
> loop around to the north and east, to join with the Susquehanna River
> about ten miles away.  Or to take an example in my area, most of the
> small bodies of water are seasonal and turn into patches of
> dried mud in the late summer, something you'd never figure out from
> looking at Bing.
>
> I'd recommend starting by simply verifying things in your immediate
> area.  It will give you a feel for how things on the ground match up to
> what you see from the air, and you'll probably find some businesses or
> roads that need updating.
>
> --
> Mark
>
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-- 
Elliott Plack
http://elliottplack.me
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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Mark Wagner]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:22:06 -0500
Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Markus Fischer writes:
>  > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped
>  > (probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to
>  > start mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking
>  > at this does not sound like a good approach)?  
> 
> Oh, and you can always do some work in Pennsylvania. Here, let's pick
> a place at random, Thompson,
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/41.8666/-75.5154
> 
> Look at Willow Street against Bing aerial imagery. It's badly aligned.
> Look at Main Street. Also badly aligned.
> Look at the cemetery west of Main. It's not on the map.
> Jefferson, East Jackson, Water, all badly aligned.
> Four bodies of water north of the village, all missing.
> A little creek coming in from the west and going into a mill pond.
> 
> There's LOTS to do, and you don't need to have ever gone to the
> place. You can just see it from the air. You can even see where an
> intersection has traffic lights -- the aerials are that good.

I wouldn't recommend pure armchair mapping as a starting point for
someone just getting in to OSM.  There are too many "gotchas": to take
your traffic light example, there are patterns of street lights that
look similar to traffic lights if you're just judging from the shadows
they cast.  Or looking at Thompson, you missed the fact that Starrucca
Creek proceeds to exit the millpond, flow west through Thompson, and
loop around to the north and east, to join with the Susquehanna River
about ten miles away.  Or to take an example in my area, most of the
small bodies of water are seasonal and turn into patches of
dried mud in the late summer, something you'd never figure out from
looking at Bing.

I'd recommend starting by simply verifying things in your immediate
area.  It will give you a feel for how things on the ground match up to
what you see from the air, and you'll probably find some businesses or
roads that need updating.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Russ Nelson]

Markus Fischer writes:
 > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped
 > (probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to
 > start mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking
 > at this does not sound like a good approach)?

Oh, and you can always do some work in Pennsylvania. Here, let's pick
a place at random, Thompson,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/41.8666/-75.5154

Look at Willow Street against Bing aerial imagery. It's badly aligned.
Look at Main Street. Also badly aligned.
Look at the cemetery west of Main. It's not on the map.
Jefferson, East Jackson, Water, all badly aligned.
Four bodies of water north of the village, all missing.
A little creek coming in from the west and going into a mill pond.

There's LOTS to do, and you don't need to have ever gone to the
place. You can just see it from the air. You can even see where an
intersection has traffic lights -- the aerials are that good.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Russ Nelson]

Markus Fischer writes:
 > I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped (probably due 
 > to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to start mapping areas that 
 > are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking at this does not sound like a good 
 > approach)?

Any place there aren't a lot of people.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Mike N]

On 11/12/2016 5:44 PM, Markus Fischer wrote:

I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped (probably
due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to start mapping
areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking at this does not
sound like a good approach)?


  Assuming that there is less than 100% mapping of all common 
attributes in your area:


 Start in your neighborhood: are all speed limits entered?  Turn 
restrictions? One way streets? -> those would be good to collect with 
Mapillary or as a passenger in a vehicle.


  Have addresses been imported?  If not, and your county has a 
restricted data license, it may be a long time if ever before addresses 
can be imported.   In that case, practice entering the address of every 
building where you routinely travel; restaurants, stores, work, etc.


  Otherwise, just start moving out into nearby towns or places you have 
lived or visited previously.


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Re: [Talk-us] .... finding areas that are underserved

[Brian May]

A couple ideas:

Start with small rural towns near you. Check to make sure the streets 
are aligned properly to Bing. Check road names against recent tiger, 
county GIS, and of course the best is on the verifying with your own 
eyes. Then clean up tracks (dirt roads, 4wd trails, non-existent trials, 
etc) outside rural towns that may be tagged as residential.


Brian

On 11/12/2016 5:44 PM, Markus Fischer wrote:

Hi,

I am new to this and the area where I live is very well mapped 
(probably due to high density of tech workers). Where do I go to start 
mapping areas that are less well mapped (me aimlessly poking at this 
does not sound like a good approach)?


- Markus



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