Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Bill Ricker  wrote:


> Contrary to local opinion in PDX, there are other Portlands.
> Since posted to talk-us, i can discount Portland, Dorset. (The original
> Port on an Island.)
> But Portland ME (PWM) has buses and is in USA.
>

Pretty sure that on talk-us, I'm about the only one here who is likely to
ask for disambiguation if the context is unclear, as I may likely wonder if
you mean the big one everybody means if they don't automatically
disambiguate, the Lake Hefner area suburb in Oklahoma City or the Arkansas
town of zip code 71663 (which, thanks to my family's atrocious handwriting,
"Portland, OR 97229" would get mistaken for "Portland, AR 71663" with
alarming regularity, in which Christmas gifts sent in November wouldn't
arrive until around spring break).


> When speaking of Portland (or Springfield, etc), if one fails to specify
> which, one communicates ones parochial bias, not ones intended meaning.
>
> Folks in the several Springfields are well aware of this - only the
> Simpsons fail to specify which Springfield unless for strictly local
> consumption - but PDX seems to think being the #1 city in a pacific coast
> state that isn't California but doesn't border Canada either makes it
> obviously "the" Portland.
>

Matt Groening (who is originally from the Ainsworth District in the Oregon
one) has already made mention that it's named after the one in Oregon and
the whole show takes most of it's names and (in the first dozen seasons
especially) plotlines based on local current events in the area.
Springfield Nuclear Power Plant stopped being such a recurring thing after
Trojan NPP finally closed; the Monorail episode was Groening's (subtle as
an anvil to the face) protest to light rail expansion; many locations are
directly ripped from southwest Portland. It goes on, go dig up his ~2002ish
interview in the Portland Tribune, it took up most of the issue.


> In this case, 'TriMet routes' buried in 2nd graph will confirm for someone
> in the local region that it's their Portland ... but i don't know how
> either Portland's transit has rebranded in recent decade, i'm still
> wondering.
>

This alone with knowing that TriMet was directly influential in the
development of, and the first to use, the GTFS format and among the first
system in the US to use OpenStreetMap made it fairly unambiguous...but I
digress...
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Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Arun Ganesh]

> I've fixed all of the relations that had their contents replaced wholesale
> by restoring to the last known good version and then adjusting as necessary
> to match the current data.  The one change to my method was to download all
> of the relation members after I load the prior version from a .osm XML
> file.  That way if any of the relation members have since been deleted they
> will be filtered out by JOSM when resolving the conflict with the existing
> relation.
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
>
Peter and everyone else, thank you for the help and restoring the
relations. The workflow to restore the relations has been captured in the
tracker [1]. As followup i'm going to write a diary post about the incident
for a broader discussion on what might have caused the issue and how it can
be avoided in future.

This is also a good experience for others to learn from on using complex
workflows while restoring relations. Will notify on list when the diary
post is up.

[1] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/185#issuecomment-220950169


-- 
Arun Ganesh
@planemad

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Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Peter Dobratz]

Hi Greg,

I've fixed all of the relations that had their contents replaced wholesale
by restoring to the last known good version and then adjusting as necessary
to match the current data.  The one change to my method was to download all
of the relation members after I load the prior version from a .osm XML
file.  That way if any of the relation members have since been deleted they
will be filtered out by JOSM when resolving the conflict with the existing
relation.

I think the rest of the bus route relations in this area are still intact,
but have gaps and/or incorrectly ordered members here and there.  I can fix
these fairly easily though.

Thanks,
Peter



On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Greg Morgan  wrote:

> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
> > Luckily, I saved a link to all of these bus routes on a wiki page as it's
> > impossible to download a relation with zero members (unless you happen to
> > know the ID):
> >
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon/Transit_Route_Relations
>
> Please let me know if you need additional help with the relationships.
> It is unclear to me if this issue has been resolved or not.
>
> You have done the hard work.  You have a handy list of relations.
> I've been thinking of creating such lists for other highways and what
> not.
> If you don't want to hack and whack on an xml file, then you can also
> do something like this.
> 1. ) Select the relation number that you are interested in and copy it
> from your wiki page, control c.
>  The only downside to your wiki page is that you used a name and
> did not directly expose the relation number.
> 2..) In Josm menu bar>File>Down object...
> 3.) The dialog will show with the relation number already filled in.
> 4.) Pick any of the check box options in the dialog. You will have to
> experiment depending on what you are mapping at the time.
>  a.) Since you need to work with different layers pick
> the"Separate layer" check box.
>  b.) Uncheck the other two check boxes:  "Download referrers
> (parent relations)" and "Download relation members".
> 5.) Next click the Download Object button.
> 6.) Another layer can be used to download the current state with the
> steps above.
>  Inside the relation editor is a "Download incomplete members"
> button.  Use this to download all the ways or nodes in a relationship.
>  Of course this is great for working on extending and existing
> relationship.   I don't know if it will help you repair these
> relationships.
> I thought that I'd throw this out there for others.
>
> These are the rules that I use when I am extending a relationship.
> 1.) You have to be careful because you cannot delete. The way or way
> nodes may be connected to other parts of the map.
> 2.) In some node moves, you will have to download more data before
> moving nodes.  That way you see other ways attached to the nodes.
> 3.) Deleting nodes also requires more data.  You have to see the whole
> context with additional downloads of data.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
> Luckily, I saved a link to all of these bus routes on a wiki page as it's
> impossible to download a relation with zero members (unless you happen to
> know the ID):
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon/Transit_Route_Relations

Please let me know if you need additional help with the relationships.
It is unclear to me if this issue has been resolved or not.

You have done the hard work.  You have a handy list of relations.
I've been thinking of creating such lists for other highways and what
not.
If you don't want to hack and whack on an xml file, then you can also
do something like this.
1. ) Select the relation number that you are interested in and copy it
from your wiki page, control c.
 The only downside to your wiki page is that you used a name and
did not directly expose the relation number.
2..) In Josm menu bar>File>Down object...
3.) The dialog will show with the relation number already filled in.
4.) Pick any of the check box options in the dialog. You will have to
experiment depending on what you are mapping at the time.
 a.) Since you need to work with different layers pick
the"Separate layer" check box.
 b.) Uncheck the other two check boxes:  "Download referrers
(parent relations)" and "Download relation members".
5.) Next click the Download Object button.
6.) Another layer can be used to download the current state with the
steps above.
 Inside the relation editor is a "Download incomplete members"
button.  Use this to download all the ways or nodes in a relationship.
 Of course this is great for working on extending and existing
relationship.   I don't know if it will help you repair these
relationships.
I thought that I'd throw this out there for others.

These are the rules that I use when I am extending a relationship.
1.) You have to be careful because you cannot delete. The way or way
nodes may be connected to other parts of the map.
2.) In some node moves, you will have to download more data before
moving nodes.  That way you see other ways attached to the nodes.
3.) Deleting nodes also requires more data.  You have to see the whole
context with additional downloads of data.

Regards,
Greg

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Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Andy Townsend]

On 20/05/2016 13:20, Arun Ganesh wrote:


Reverting the changesets are causing multiple conflicts and there does 
not seem to be a mechanism to just restore relation membership to a 
historical version. Any help and ideas appreciated


[1] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/185


If it helps, what I've done when things like this have happened in the 
past is:


1) Edit failing OSC files to not include relation changes that cause 
problems - i.e. get all the ways and nodes in OSM how you want them.


2) Find the "desired version" of the relation that you want to update, 
and try and apply that (e.g. via level0).  It'll fail, so find out which 
ways don't exist, take them out of the relation details you're trying to 
upload and try again.


3) Obviously now you'll have gaps in the relation - either fill them in 
manually if it's obvious, or figure out where the deleted ways that used 
to be in the relation were (by looking at undeleted nodes and the 
history of deleted nodes), and use that information to fill in gaps.


As to "what caused it", there were examples of "relation contents being 
lost in JOSM uploads" a while back, but I've not heard reports of recent 
problems**, though there were reports of API upload slowness a few days 
ago (much discussed elsewhere - and in fact the message at the top of 
#osm still says "Ongoing server issues, sysadmins are on the case").  
With any change in OSM it makes sense to double check the changes that 
you've made immediately after you've made them - did you really mean to 
make all changes in the resulting changeset?  Are all relations intact? etc.


Cheers,

Andy

PS: and FWIW I guessed that it was the Portland with the homelessness 
problem* and the nice river running through it, not the one with a crab 
fixation or the one that's scared of "underground mutton" :)


* when I last visited, which was a while ago.  They might have got their 
act together now.


** The DWG often gets cries for help when big relations disappear


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