Re: Leave on server

[Wayne Black]

Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 10:54 PM Pacific

Hello Cyrille, This is a reply to your message dated
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 10:23 PM, when you wrote:

WB>> I have the box "Leave messages on server" in all of my accounts but
WB>> some are getting deleted anyway. Has anyone else had this problem? I
WB>> am using Windows 98SE.

C> Do you have a 'Selective download' filter? 'Selective download'
C> filters allow to delete messages even if you have "Leave messages on
C> server" on - if you configure TB so. This is not a problem, but a
C> useful feature.

Thanks very much, that is what it was. I changed the Selective
download action from "kill" to "Ignore" and all is well.

-- 
Wayne



Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server

[Cyrille]

Hello Wayne,

Monday, June 7, 2004, 3:59:46 AM, you wrote:

WB> I have the box "Leave messages on server" in all of my accounts but
WB> some are getting deleted anyway. Has anyone else had this problem? I
WB> am using Windows 98SE.

Do you have a 'Selective download' filter? 'Selective download'
filters allow to delete messages even if you have "Leave messages on
server" on - if you configure TB so. This is not a problem, but a
useful feature.

--
Best regards,
Cyrille
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[ TB! 2.10.01, Windows ME 4.90 Build 3000, Pentium 233Mhz with 95MB ]




Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Leave on server

[Wayne Black]

Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 6:56 PM Pacific

Hello TBUDL,

I have the box "Leave messages on server" in all of my accounts but
some are getting deleted anyway. Has anyone else had this problem? I
am using Windows 98SE.

--
Wayne



Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hi Thomas,

On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:51:57 +0700
Thomas Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> The MID is only in the headers of the message. The client would have
>> to issue TOP for each message in order to see wheter it already has
>> that message. Server ssupporting UIDL can give you such a list in
>> one row. :)

> I see. But from an efficiency POV, it is - well, inefficient to create
> two unique IDs for each message in the internet. Room for improvement
> in the RFCs, I'd think. ;-)

No. But that's far to technically.
-- 
Peter



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Johannes,

On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:19:34 +0100 GMT (20/12/02, 16:19 +0700 GMT),
Johannes Posel wrote:

> The MID is only in the headers of the message. The client would have
> to issue TOP for each message in order to see wheter it already has
> that message. Server ssupporting UIDL can give you such a list in one
> row. :)

I see. But from an efficiency POV, it is - well, inefficient to create
two unique IDs for each message in the internet. Room for improvement
in the RFCs, I'd think. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

I bought a portable cable tv.

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62 Christmas Edition
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 
using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Johannes Posel]

Dear Thomas,

On 04:39 20.12.2002, you [Thomas Fernandez ([EMAIL PROTECTED])]
wrote...

> What is the UID for anyway, since the MID is already unique?

The MID is only in the headers of the message. The client would have
to issue TOP for each message in order to see wheter it already has
that message. Server ssupporting UIDL can give you such a list in one
row. :)

Cheers,
 Johannesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Any time things appear to be going better,
you have overlooked something.



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Johannes,

On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:25:25 +0100 GMT (20/12/02, 07:25 +0700 GMT),
Johannes Posel wrote:

>> server, though a client should be able to "handle" identical copies
>> with the same unique-id [oxymoron there, huh?].

> There's always the message ID left, which will be a same unique ID if
> you're accesing the same mailspool...

What is the UID for anyway, since the MID is already unique?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

"Don't forget your wife's name . . . that will mess up the love."
(Roger, 8)

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62 Christmas Edition
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 
using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Johannes Posel]

Dear Craftsman,

On 00:53 20.12.2002, you [Craftsman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])] wrote...

> server, though a client should be able to "handle" identical copies
> with the same unique-id [oxymoron there, huh?].

There's always the message ID left, which will be a same unique ID if
you're accesing the same mailspool...

Cheers,
 Johannesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Any time things appear to be going better,
you have overlooked something.



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Leave on server woes.

[Craftsman]

Hello Jonathan,

Thursday, December 19, 2002, 5:42:36 PM, you wrote:

JA> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
JA> Hash: SHA1

JA> On Monday, December 16, 2002, Peter Palmreuther wrote...

>> The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the
>> POP3-server does not generate the same UID for the same message
>> every time. This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can
>> only be fixed on server side.

JA> Technically this isn't a 'problem'... well... it is a problem in
JA> respect to downloading mail, as you get duplicates, however it isn't a
JA> problem in respect to what is defined as the rules for the protocol.

JA> ,- [ UIDL ]
JA> | While it is generally preferable for server implementations to store
JA> | arbitrarily assigned unique-ids in the maildrop, this specification is
JA> | intended to permit unique-ids to be calculated as a hash of the
JA> | message.  Clients should be able to handle a situation where two
JA> | identical copies of a message in a maildrop have the same unique-id.
JA> `-

JA> By definition of the RFCs [1], I don't think UIDL is even a required
JA> command based on the "minimum" list of commands, and "additional"
JA> commands they provide.

JA> [1] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1939.txt

JA> - --
JA> Jonathan Angliss
JA> ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

JA> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

JA> iQA/AwUBPgJLYSuD6BT4/R9zEQIu5QCglHEUR/+2+rMR5JUt+AIh7cCMqMMAniN8
JA> GBfD2Ocl8n+bHNE2bkdsec+k
JA> =XL/g
JA> -END PGP SIGNATURE-


JA> 
JA> Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
JA> http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Clearly, though, they state that it is preferable this be handled via
server, though a client should be able to "handle" identical copies
with the same unique-id [oxymoron there, huh?].

While these are, truly, listed as "optional", this makes for some
pretty strange science in any situation where mail is left on the
server. I know *I'm* tired of hitting the "Kill Dupes" button! ;-)


-- 
Best regards,
 Craftsmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Jonathan Angliss]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, December 16, 2002, Peter Palmreuther wrote...

> The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the
> POP3-server does not generate the same UID for the same message
> every time. This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can
> only be fixed on server side.

Technically this isn't a 'problem'... well... it is a problem in
respect to downloading mail, as you get duplicates, however it isn't a
problem in respect to what is defined as the rules for the protocol.

,- [ UIDL ]
| While it is generally preferable for server implementations to store
| arbitrarily assigned unique-ids in the maildrop, this specification is
| intended to permit unique-ids to be calculated as a hash of the
| message.  Clients should be able to handle a situation where two
| identical copies of a message in a maildrop have the same unique-id.
`-

By definition of the RFCs [1], I don't think UIDL is even a required
command based on the "minimum" list of commands, and "additional"
commands they provide.

[1] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1939.txt

- --
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQA/AwUBPgJLYSuD6BT4/R9zEQIu5QCglHEUR/+2+rMR5JUt+AIh7cCMqMMAniN8
GBfD2Ocl8n+bHNE2bkdsec+k
=XL/g
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Leave on server woes.

[Craftsman]

Hello Johannes,

Monday, December 16, 2002, 6:05:34 AM, you wrote:

JP> Dear Peter,

JP> On 11:03 16.12.2002, you [Peter Palmreuther
JP> ([EMAIL PROTECTED])] wrote...

>> The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the POP3-server
>> does not generate the same UID for the same message every time.
>> This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can only be fixed on
>> server side. The Bat! can do _nothing_ about it, it's only chance to

JP> I know of at least one pop3 server that has this as a *feature*, to
JP> prevent users from using the server in an "IMAP" way ;)

JP> Cheers,
JP>  Johannesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


After many gyrations since I am administrator of one mailserver
and "they" are administrator of another(the culprit).

I have found a second POP3 server with this wonderful undocumented
feature.

Thanks millions for everyone's help..

-- 
Best regards,
 Craftsmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hi Johannes,

On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:05:34 +0100
Johannes Posel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the
>> POP3-server does not generate the same UID for the same message
>> every time. This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can
>> only be fixed on server side. The Bat! can do _nothing_ about it,
>> it's only chance to

> I know of at least one pop3 server that has this as a *feature*, to
> prevent users from using the server in an "IMAP" way ;)

Seems to be a great piece of software.
Could you post the name, so I do know what to avoid to install
accidentally? :-)))
Not I'd like to switch away from my preferred software setup on a new
server, but it could be interesting to know which paket gets a pinning
of -1 :-)

P.S.: As this is OT^2 a PM reply is appreciated :-)
-- 
Pit


Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Johannes Posel]

Dear Peter,

On 11:03 16.12.2002, you [Peter Palmreuther
([EMAIL PROTECTED])] wrote...

> The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the POP3-server
> does not generate the same UID for the same message every time.
> This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can only be fixed on
> server side. The Bat! can do _nothing_ about it, it's only chance to

I know of at least one pop3 server that has this as a *feature*, to
prevent users from using the server in an "IMAP" way ;)

Cheers,
 Johannesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hi Allie,

On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:29:21 -0500
"Allie C Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue
>> to download *all* the files left on the server over and over. It
>> doesn't take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

> That's likely a server configuration problem. 

ACK.

> The server is supposed to mark successfully retrieved messages as
> 'read'.

He might do so, but this is irrelevant for TB! working the expected way.

> When TB! reconnects, it will then know which messages are new and not
> yet retrieved from which have already been retrieved.

Not by any 'server mark'.
The Bat! fetches a list of 'UID's (via UIDL command) at the beginning of
a session. It stores the UID of every message it retrieved locally and
the next time it fetches these list it compares it to it's local copy.
Every UID alredy present in it's data set it ignores, every unknown UID
is queued for the corresponding message to be downloaded. After
successfully downlowding the mail the new UID is added to the local
repository.

The trouble the OP might "be run into" will likely be: the POP3-server
does not generate the same UID for the same message every time.
This is a known, but not wide spread problem which can only be fixed on
server side. The Bat! can do _nothing_ about it, it's only chance to
identify a message on server definitely is: the UID.
Every other possibility to identify a duplicate is connected to
downloading the message and do a local 'Dup check' as 'Kill duplicates'
does.

Hope this clears thing a little bit, albeit it is no solution to the OPs
problem. I doubt there's any solution, but the administrator fixing the
server :-/
-- 
Pit


Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Maurice McAdam]

Hello Craftsman,

C> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will
C> continue to download *all* the files left on the server
C> over and over. It doesn't take long to end up with a
C> gazillion dupes.

I had the same problem, but only when I switched to 1.62;
I now leave all messages on the server for 1 day - since
then all is well.

Regards,
Maurice


C> 
C> Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
C> http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Allie C Martin]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craftsman [C] wrote:'

C> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue
C> to download *all* the files left on the server over and over. It
C> doesn't take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

That's likely a server configuration problem. The server is supposed
to mark successfully retrieved messages as 'read'. When TB!
reconnects, it will then know which messages are new and not yet
retrieved from which have already been retrieved.

-- 
  -=] Allie C Martin [=-  {List Moderator}

MUA: TB! v1.62 Christmas Edition ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Uwe Zimmermann]

Hello Andre Wichartz,

on 2002-12-15 at 21:31 CET you wrote:

AW> Hello Craftsman,

AW> On Sunday, December 15, 2002, 14:53:04 -0500 GMT (which was 20:53
AW> local time), Craftsman wrote:

C>> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue to
C>> download *all* the files left on the server over and over.  It doesn't
C>> take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

C>> Anybody know a cure?

AW> I have set the Bat! to leave messages on server for two days just in
AW> case. I never experienced your problem..


Neither do I.
I'm using 3 different POP3 mail servers, all are configured to leave
the messages on the server for now.
Everything behaves well, no duplicates and yes, the messages are still
on the server


   Uwe.

-- 
TheBat! 1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 2000



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Leave on server woes.

[Andre Wichartz]

Hello Craftsman,

On Sunday, December 15, 2002, 14:53:04 -0500 GMT (which was 20:53
local time), Craftsman wrote:

C> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue to
C> download *all* the files left on the server over and over.  It doesn't
C> take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

C> Anybody know a cure?

I have set the Bat! to leave messages on server for two days just in
case. I never experienced your problem..

-- 
Cheers,
 Andre   

"Love is the feeling that you feel
 when you feel the feeling
 that you never felt before."




Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Leave on server woes.

[Tim Musson]

Hey Craftsman,

My MUA believes 'The Bat! (v1.61)' was used
to write [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
on Sunday, December 15, 2002 at 2:53:04 PM.

C> If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue to
C> download *all* the files left on the server over and over.  It
C> doesn't take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

C> Anybody know a cure?

Well, you can kill all the dupes with
  Folder \ Kill Dupes

I don't recall seeing the multiple DL problem though.

-- 
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v1.61
Windows 2000 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 2)
A television may insult your intelligence but nothing rubs it in like a computer.



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Leave on server woes.

[Craftsman]

If I set The Bat to leave files on the server, it will continue to
download *all* the files left on the server over and over.  It doesn't
take long to end up with a gazillion dupes.

Anybody know a cure?



Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Automatic option to not download but leave on server

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Doc,


On  Sunday, January 30, 2000  at  11:02:47 GMT +0900 (which was 6:02 PM where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:


> Januk Aggarwal wrote...

>>The Bat downloads the messages first, then it applies the appropriate
>>filter sets, so what you request can't be done exactly the way you
>>describe.  But there is a work around that might do what you need.

> I already have separate folders for messages from the developer and 
> others, but when I'm busy I don't want those others even to be 
> downloaded.

 Just an extension to what I was saying earlier, do you know about the
 option in the filters to delete the message when applied?  For
 example, you can create an incoming filter for all messages from that
 list which are not from the developers.  Then under the Actions tab,
 you can delete them.  So if you set TB to leave messages on the
 server, you will download the messages, but you'll never see them.
 They will be deleted as soon as they hit the Inbox.  But they will
 still be on the server if you want to download them to another
 machine.  Just an idea.  I still agree with you that filters should
 be applied *before* downloading, but unless you restrict the search
 areas to the headers, this isn't practical.

> I guess since The Bat! doesn't do any automatic server-side
> filtering, there's no hope of getting this one.

 Not yet. Hopefully they will implement it in version 2. But I don't
 recall anyone mentioning this feature.

> On the other hand, The Bat! has some options not in Datula, such as 
> automatically marking a message as read. It would be nice to combine 
> the best feature of both programs -- Batula!

 That's a great idea.  Now you just have to get everyone to agree what
 are the *best* features of each. :)

> Batula! would have The Bat!'s editor, MailTicker(TM) and sorting 
> rules interface,

 Agreed.

> Datula's Japanese-language handling and server-side filtering and
> configurable key assignment and one-key navigation across folders,
> etc. Great idea, no?

 I've never used Datula, so I'll believe you about the quality of the
 filtering. But I would *love* the one-key navigation across folders.
 There have been rumors that it will be supported in version 2. I'm
 getting the feeling that version 2 won't be at all similar to 1.xx. I
 hope that's for the better, although 1.xx is going to be a hard act
 to follow.

-- 
Thanks for writing
 Januk
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Using The Bat! 1.39
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: Automatic option to not download but leave on server

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

Hi Januk,

On  31 January 2000  at  16:53:50 GMT -0800 (which was 00:53 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points:

>>   I'd  like  to  do  the  same  thing in The Bat!, but this feature
>> appears  to  be  missing.  Is  it?  (I  know  I  can do it with the
>> dispatcher, but I want to do it automatically.)

JA> The Bat downloads the messages first, then it applies the
JA> appropriate filter sets, so what you request can't be done exactly
JA> the way you describe. But there is a work around that might do
JA> what you need. If you set your work computer to Leave Messages on
JA> Server (Account->Properties->Mail Management), then you can create
JA> filters to move the unwanted mail to some other folder, leaving
JA> behind just the ones you want to keep. Then your home computer can
JA> download all your messages.

JA>  This solution is not quite as elegant as what you requested, but it
JA>  should do the job.

OTOH by using "Leave messages on the server" and using filters at each
end,  you  can  have  the filters "Delete the message from the server"
appropriately using the "Actions" tab for the filters.

HTH

-- 
Cheers,
.\\arck

Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer
Co-moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
www: http://www.silverstones.com
PGP key: 

*---
| Using The Bat! 1.41 / Beta1 S/N 14F4B4B2
| under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
*---

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Re: Automatic option to not download but leave on server

[Doc Wonmug]

Januk Aggarwal wrote...

>The Bat downloads the messages first, then it applies the appropriate
>filter sets, so what you request can't be done exactly the way you
>describe.  But there is a work around that might do what you need.

I already have separate folders for messages from the developer and 
others, but when I'm busy I don't want those others even to be 
downloaded. I guess since The Bat! doesn't do any automatic 
server-side filtering, there's no hope of getting this one.

On the other hand, The Bat! has some options not in Datula, such as 
automatically marking a message as read. It would be nice to combine 
the best feature of both programs -- Batula!

Batula! would have The Bat!'s editor, MailTicker(TM) and sorting 
rules interface, Datula's Japanese-language handling and server-side 
filtering and configurable key assignment and one-key navigation 
across folders, etc. Great idea, no?


-- 
John De Hoog
http://dehoog.org

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Re: Automatic option to not download but leave on server

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Doc,


On  Sunday, January 30, 2000  at  09:41:39 GMT +0900 (which was 4:41 PM where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:

> Hello, Batmen and women,

>   I'd like to do the same thing in The Bat!, but this feature appears
> to be missing. Is it? (I know I can do it with the dispatcher, 
> but I want to do it automatically.)

 The Bat downloads the messages first, then it applies the appropriate
 filter sets, so what you request can't be done exactly the way you
 describe.  But there is a work around that might do what you need.
 If you set your work computer to Leave Messages on Server
 (Account->Properties->Mail Management), then you can create filters
 to move the unwanted mail to some other folder, leaving behind just
 the ones you want to keep.  Then your home computer can download all
 your messages.

 This solution is not quite as elegant as what you requested, but it
 should do the job.

-- 
Thanks for writing
 Januk
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Using The Bat! 1.39
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Automatic option to not download but leave on server

[Doc Wonmug]

Hello, Batmen and women,

  One option I use frequently in Datula and EdMax is to leave 
certain messages on the server without downloading them, so I can 
download them from a different location later.

  For example, I don't want to read all the messages for the Datula 
and EdMax lists while I'm at my office, unless they are from the 
developers themselves. So I have Datula filters set up to leave all 
messages for these lists on the server, and to download only those 
from the program developers. 

  I'd like to do the same thing in The Bat!, but this feature appears 
to be missing. Is it? (I know I can do it with the dispatcher, 
but I want to do it automatically.)
-- 
John De Hoog
http://dehoog.org

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