Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 21 January 2001 at 10:45:21 + (which was 10:45 where I live) Marck D. Pearlstone wrote and made these points: MDP If your message went through a formatting MTA, you wouldn't get MDP what you want. There is *no* guarantee of that. The only way to MDP guarantee it is to send the text as an attachment. Let's move this thread to TBTECH now. It's become very circular and RFC centric. No more on TBUDL please. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmrFLDnkJKuSnc2gEQKK9wCgprGn8DbYASRYGSL+aQ6d8K/zaFgAn2TC HP5/bOm8oVqIudsT7bgec87+ =4RPx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Marck, Sunday, January 21, 2001, 3:17:24 AM, you wrote: MDP Let's move this thread to TBTECH now. It's become very circular and MDP RFC centric. No more on TBUDL please. I'm done with it. I think both our points and feelings were made with-out possible resolution. -- Best regards, Georgemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa's elves are just a bunch of subordinate Clauses. * * * === Thawte authorized WOT Notary ICQ: 122492 * * * === "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." -- the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed with PGP to allow source and content authentication by recipient. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Marck, Sunday, January 21, 2001, 2:45:21 AM, you wrote: MDP Simple. George changed the subject. I was talking to George, not you. MDP He stipulated that formatting could be constant without hard returns. MDP That is not the case. Different recipients *see* differently formatted MDP results depending on the configuration at their end. I never said "that formatting could be constant without hard returns." You just inferred that. -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** Help stamp out, delete, and eradicate superfluous redundancy. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello, the Bat! list recipients, Saturday, January 20, 2001, Jonas T Larsson wrote to Lija about Like Notepad with word-wrap...: JTL There are potential problems sending messages with 1000 chars/line JTL since this is the maximum line length specified in some RFC. Supposedly JTL some servers will barf on those mails. This is something I picked up JTL from a PMMail mailing list where the subject came up. Some servers cuts lines longer than 1000 chars -- not wraps, but cuts. -- Best regards, Oleg Zalyalov. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! version 1.49 under Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 6 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Thomas, T IOW: TB's editor knows only hard return (CR/LF), and no soft returns T as in Notepad. Ough, that's not so good for me :( T Advantage: the mail will be sent exactly the way you see it. Hmm, you mean, the recipients will get 'cutted' message? Is there any way or possibility to write them like one long line in Notepad with word-wrap option turned on, "ready for DTP processing"? T What is DTP processing? I didn't mean specifically for DTP, that was just an expression to point out my problem... For DTP (Desktop Publishing) processing, source text must be without CR/LF codes, otherwise, DTP workers have to use adequate macros to remove it... The usual condition is writing texts in MS Word or other word-processing software, and later, DTP worker can easy make whatever he wants in Quark, PageMaker (columns, subtexts, whatever...). That's why I don't like this in EVERY e-mail software... What about quoted-printable encoding? Will this, if I use, remedy my 8-bit letters? T Dunno. Why don't you try it out? I did it with HTML message in OE and it worked. -- Best Regards, Lija, YUPCExpert-Owner [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hi Lija, On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:39:25 +0100GMT (20/01/2001, 16:39 +0800GMT), Lija wrote: T Advantage: the mail will be sent exactly the way you see it. Hmm, you mean, the recipients will get 'cutted' message? No, I mean the recipients will see it exactly the way you see it. If you see a line break after the word "if" in the above line, I will have ssen the line break while writing this. And Indeed: I see it! :-) I didn't mean specifically for DTP, that was just an expression to point out my problem... For DTP (Desktop Publishing) processing, source text must be without CR/LF codes, otherwise, DTP workers have to use adequate macros to remove it... The usual condition is writing texts in MS Word or other word-processing software, In that case I guess you will have to create .doc files and attach them to the email. An alternative is to see whether you can make TB accept line length 9 characters or so. Options / Editor Preferences / General / Wrap text at xxx characters. -- Cheers, Thomas. Co-Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Thomas, I didn't mean specifically for DTP, that was just an expression to point out my problem... For DTP (Desktop Publishing) processing, source text must be without CR/LF codes, otherwise, DTP workers have to use adequate macros to remove it... The usual condition is writing texts in MS Word or other word-processing software, T In that case I guess you will have to create .doc files and attach T them to the email. No, I won't send attached mail and write it in MS Word ;) T An alternative is to see whether you can make TB accept line length 9 T characters or so. T Options / Editor Preferences / General / Wrap text at xxx characters. Already tried... no solution, just one bbbiig iii :)) ... and I hate to use horizontal scroll bar :)) Thank you, anyway... I appreciate all efforts. Greetings, -- Best Regards, Lija, YUPCExpert-Owner [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[3]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Lija, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:40:31 AM, you wrote: T In that case I guess you will have to create .doc files and attach T them to the email. No, I won't send attached mail and write it in MS Word ;) Another way is to write your text in Notepad or another plain text editor and attach that. It is still attached (I know, you said you did not want that), but it is in no proprietary format like MS Word. And it is not wrapped (if you configured your text editor not to use hard returns). AFAIK in e-mail programs it is recommended by RFCs and part of the netiquette that hard returns are added by the e-mail programs at about 70 characters a line. This is e.g. helpful for quoting. Texts which you want to process further after mailing should be sent as an attachment. David -- David Buntenbroich e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.buntenbroich.de The Bat! 1.49c on Windows NT 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Saturday, January 20, 2001, 6:17:53 AM, you wrote: Is there any way or possibility to write them like one long line in Notepad with word-wrap option turned on, "ready for DTP processing"? That's why I can't never accept CR/LF codes... Just one big line, but wrapped automatically when reaching end of the display... There are potential problems sending messages with 1000 chars/line since this is the maximum line length specified in some RFC. Supposedly some servers will barf on those mails. This is something I picked up from a PMMail mailing list where the subject came up. Yours Jonas -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi David, On 20 January 2001 at 17:11:44 +0100 (which was 16:11 where I live) David Buntenbroich wrote and made these points: DB AFAIK in e-mail programs it is recommended by RFCs and part of the DB netiquette that hard returns are added by the e-mail programs at DB about 70 characters a line. This is e.g. helpful for quoting. It is. Furthermore, many of them wrap after you hit send, so it's entirely out of your control and sight. The suggestion of attaching an externally prepared file is completely correct. Email was not designed to convey DTP information. DTP information was not designed to be sent as email messages. It's exactly what attachments are meant for. DB Texts which you want to process further after mailing should be DB sent as an attachment. I agree with you completely. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmnMEjnkJKuSnc2gEQKsAwCdHu6D1/W6xRt+/AQ1w1XjHaD1m/8AoLKQ gn9HkxTt2jJ/3q0siPxBGOU6 =5+T2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[4]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hello David, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 8:11:44 AM, you wrote: DB AFAIK in e-mail programs it is recommended by RFCs and part of the DB netiquette that hard returns are added by the e-mail programs at about DB 70 characters a line. This is e.g. helpful for quoting. But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. I propose the Hard Returns are not inserted until the E-mail is sent thus cutting off many other formatting problems as with PGP and such. - -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.1 Comment: Used for Privacy and Authentication iQEVAwUBOmnZ0jYFY6kvWSqxAQGCYggAiIbJuXeSaSMLiFa6d4B1BgkjgCpok2U7 7avxyrBsfUuhuUVBpTjQKfyQPovOS78djmSIx1Z9ZB6UyM9mF9uwfoemDtv2upGP QTcmoOy4ETRD/Kv6ZNVwnmXyMVcuOkLkw8MY0RyLf4WkwFK4nlHKqj/LtAnKe9Xs j11C+/K9I7WmojpC1o5EhzgeV2/u2ZLUqJ56gIfu/xJHegB7fHTOYyxM5apaB13t 9KNorpIrzIK3/P8qPPI9rxzMXeUxdqLwpI3g7xRdzfsfsLIi2XxxyvTlMQouTsVI 8OgacfvIcnGA4yT/lbAGYqzvsFqe06/1IcsfX7X62InLUzYobf0Www== =iM9O -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[3]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hallo Lija, if you want non-wrapped Text then write it in Notepad (or something leike that) and save it as .txt, so that you can attach it to your Mails. You can't be sure that a Mail goes to the recipient as you want. The Recipient can have filters or his Mail-program ignores some special characters. With a attached file you won't get these Problems. If you don't want it, Quark is able to replace all 'returns'. Greetz -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[4]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hello Nebula, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:16:59 AM, you wrote: N if you want non-wrapped Text then write it in Notepad (or something leike N that) and save it as .txt, This is a knee jerk work around. How about giving the user the option to use hard returns or not. - -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** A mouse is an elephant built by the Japanese. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.1 Comment: Used for Privacy and Authentication iQEVAwUBOmnm7TYFY6kvWSqxAQFO3wf8DfBLc5+/34Ks/WsxjUnOAIQDRY8wA/Ah 6QRD1djODzeDqeYD7ptOtiGDvv5nPthlTpD8QdNVvo9MX2yXRSNy9GQ/4gDqKEQa QIIOQlI1cgsgWMUscTQ2Jn6I9JzTMTJnq48ycmmkvXNvjHuGZ3UUeN3DUgeNy5ng mxVZcbuB+sH9nn9xKtiNuHqhkbi0T5XjUf5cmyqqnHh0f1rOeaUn3M03W8P4su8Y c+Xa5z9A0wxcD9AKAqmj7cucpP3l6UsLEYgFL24yM8YySVpeU4uZGeURH+ARBl1k //Nmd6MnVCj6QNCDZlVw/dS5d4gbnle9A5R0E4OBmAbuEs+3foPxOw== =GLTf -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, at 11:29:25 [GMT -0800], George F Schoelles wrote: GFS This is a knee jerk work around. How about giving the user the GFS option to use hard returns or not. Standards are not knee-jerk reactions. If you insist on sending unformatted e-mails, don't be upset with the complaints you get from recipients. The Bat! is an e-mail client, not a DTP utility. The function it performs is that of conveying textual information in an efficient and straight-forward manner. Unformatted lines, Rich Text, HTML, XML etc. do not enhance that function. However, if you insist on long lines that will, no doubt, cause readers to use the horizontal scroll bar, or view the message in an uncontrolled, and most likely, unwanted manner, then by all means turn off "Utilities/Auto-Wrap" (Shift-Ctrl-W). Should the demonstration in the previous paragraph actually work, my apologies to everyone else. Mike "try this at home, but not here" Yetto - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=MAY:PGP_Key E-mailed using The Bat! v1.49 running on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOmnrl9kz/SR3Uv4yEQJAUgCgwGwBHm0kAuisWt5idd5gUJRw0VMAn2er zgdnwdUsql0O7thD+o77XhJ8 =X5fL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hallo George, On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:33:04 -0800 GMT (21/01/2001, 02:33 +0800 GMT), George F Schoelles wrote: DB AFAIK in e-mail programs it is recommended by RFCs and part of the DB netiquette that hard returns are added by the e-mail programs at about DB 70 characters a line. This is e.g. helpful for quoting. GFS But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. You can set it. GFS I propose the Hard Returns are not inserted until the E-mail is GFS sent thus cutting off many other formatting problems as with PGP GFS and such. I tend to disagree. I rather like that I see the mail the way it will be sent. -- Cheers, Thomas. Co-Moderator der deutschsprachigen The Bat! Beginner Liste. -Bureaucrats do not change the course of the ship of state. They merely adjust the compass. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 20 January 2001 at 10:33:04 -0800 (which was 18:33 where I live) George F Schoelles wrote and made these points: GFS But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. GFS I propose the Hard Returns are not inserted until the E-mail is GFS sent thus cutting off many other formatting problems as with PGP GFS and such. That is a retrograde step. What TB does in pre-formatting beats the other clients hands down in terms of plain text presentation. The others all wrap *after* you hit send. What's the point of that? The element of surprise? I want to see the mail *before* it leaves. Hard returns are going to be used. At least if they're seen *before* send is pressed then it is under *my* control and not . - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmntQDnkJKuSnc2gEQIq7wCeMc0wZFHIwPuhx1yfGQmcT2u9x4oAoMo7 VOZYm2Ar3G584i48O3tj2hCn =KUSP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 20 January 2001 at 11:29:25 -0800 (which was 19:29 where I live) George F Schoelles wrote and made these points: GFS This is a knee jerk work around. How about giving the user the GFS option to use hard returns or not. There is no choice. Hard returns get used at some point. At least in TB that point is "up front". In all other clients it's either behind the scenes or at the whim of a routing MTA. Whichever, it's out of the control of the message originator. Give me control over random anarchy any day. What you propose as an option is only possible when the routing is known. The "attach a text file" work-around is *not* knee jerk. It is 100% the correct solution. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmntNjnkJKuSnc2gEQLj5gCgsASn3ObXnDMwrpcq7iJVy4WJ87gAn0+a bqROkW741E+d0DreEtX6iQEh =ot3x -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Thomas, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:30:43 AM, you wrote: DB AFAIK in e-mail programs it is recommended by RFCs and part of the DB netiquette that hard returns are added by the e-mail programs at about DB 70 characters a line. This is e.g. helpful for quoting. GFS But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. T You can set it. Where other than by Number of characters? I refer to during editing vs: after editing. Kind of like auto-mating the alt+l thing. GFS I propose the Hard Returns are not inserted until the E-mail is GFS sent thus cutting off many other formatting problems as with PGP GFS and such. T I tend to disagree. I rather like that I see the mail the way it will T be sent. WYSIWYG can be done with-out hard-returns. Eudora has done it ever since 2.0. -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** Air Pollution is a mist-demeanor. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Mike, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:48:32 AM, you wrote: GFS This is a knee jerk work around. How about giving the user the GFS option to use hard returns or not. MY Standards are not knee-jerk reactions. If you insist on sending MY unformatted e-mails, don't be upset with the complaints you get from MY recipients. The Bat! is an e-mail client, not a DTP utility. The MY function it performs is that of conveying textual information in an MY efficient and straight-forward manner. Unformatted lines, Rich Text, MY HTML, XML etc. do not enhance that function. Standards were not taking place in the discussion. The discussion was on how TB's editor interacts with the user. MY However, if you insist on long lines that will, no doubt, cause readers to use the MY horizontal scroll bar, or view the message in an uncontrolled, and most likely, MY unwanted manner, then by all means turn off "Utilities/Auto-Wrap" (Shift-Ctrl-W). MY Should the demonstration in the previous paragraph actually work, my MY apologies to everyone else. You where demonstrating just what? -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Marck, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:55:33 AM, you wrote: GFS This is a knee jerk work around. How about giving the user the GFS option to use hard returns or not. MDP There is no choice. Hard returns get used at some point. At least in MDP TB that point is "up front". In all other clients it's either behind MDP the scenes or at the whim of a routing MTA. Whichever, it's out of the MDP control of the message originator. Give me control over random anarchy MDP any day. What you propose as an option is only possible when the MDP routing is known. So why do so many other clients handle this so much better? MDP The "attach a text file" work-around is *not* knee jerk. It is 100% MDP the correct solution. So if I were to use a text-editor than attach it, I might as well not use TB and route directly through sendmail, for it is my opinion that the editor is 90% of what makes the client. -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** Santa's elves are just a bunch of subordinate Clauses. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Marck, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 11:55:44 AM, you wrote: GFS But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. GFS I propose the Hard Returns are not inserted until the E-mail is GFS sent thus cutting off many other formatting problems as with PGP GFS and such. MDP That is a retrograde step. What TB does in pre-formatting beats the MDP other clients hands down in terms of plain text presentation. The MDP others all wrap *after* you hit send. What's the point of that? The MDP element of surprise? I want to see the mail *before* it leaves. Hard MDP returns are going to be used. At least if they're seen *before* send MDP is pressed then it is under *my* control and not . Fine this may be in your _opinion_, but how difficult could it be to give the user the option. -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** Shared joy is a double joy; shared sorrow is half a sorrow. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On January 20, 2001, at 12:08:46 PM, George F Schoelles Wrote: T I tend to disagree. I rather like that I see the mail the way it will T be sent. GFS WYSIWYG can be done with-out hard-returns. Eudora has done it ever GFS since 2.0. U... I would tend to disagree with this statement George. I've used Eudora since the early days as well, and it has never been WYSIWYG. Eudora's word wrapping at 76 characters is hardcoded into the Program, and is performed *after* the message is sent. With regards to PGP signatures for instance, this method necessitates a balancing act between PGP's word wrapping and that performed by Eudora, because PGP's wrapping is always performed *before* Eudora wraps. So, one has to find a way to eliminate Eudora's wrapping altogether, otherwise the integrity of the PGP signature will have been compromised. I much prefer how TB! includes the hard returns, for it completely eliminates the need for that balancing act. However, you are correct in that you will have to remember to set PGP/Options/Email/Word Wrap each time you use PGP outside of TB!, and that I too find irritating. Nick N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.49c | PGP 7.0.3 | Win 98 SE ] Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID: 0x7BA3FDCE -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.3 Comment: Join PGP-Basics: [EMAIL PROTECTED] iQA/AwUBOmn+EsUChHR7o/3OEQJEMwCgvIVdDXRlguKaeQk4L0HDTcUQWpoAn1uf jaLYC9w/qR5UyZpsbpU9wvm0 =h1Rl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 20 January 2001 at 12:08:46 -0800 (which was 20:08 where I live) George F Schoelles wrote and made these points: GFS WYSIWYG can be done with-out hard-returns. Eudora has done it GFS ever since 2.0. This is literally impossible using plain ASCII text. Only Eudora users can receive the messages as sent. At least with TB the message format is universally legible. Making statements like this is doing your credibility no good at all. It seems to me that you are just being argumentative for the sake of it and I can't condone that kind of behaviour on the list. Please watch your tone and accuracy. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmn+FjnkJKuSnc2gEQKWvgCg0SxD/uRgBOyHFtTz8M072p07BtAAmwdv JJ/WdiEQwzt/i+HDkDJr70T/ =ZB7M -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, at 12:12:21 [GMT -0800], George F Schoelles wrote: MY However, if you insist on long lines that will, no doubt, cause readers to use the MY horizontal scroll bar, or view the message in an uncontrolled, and most likely, MY unwanted manner, then by all means turn off "Utilities/Auto-Wrap" (Shift-Ctrl-W). MY Should the demonstration in the previous paragraph actually work, my MY apologies to everyone else. GFS You where demonstrating just what? Not everyone would see the top paragraph, attributed to me above, in the same way. If you turn off auto-wrap before you open my message you will see only one line. If auto-wrap is on, that line will be wrapped to the current window size at the time the message is opened. If you resize the window, close it and then open the message again, you will see the line split differently. This behavior doesn't reflect anyone's preferences, but does demonstrate a complete lack of control over the formatting of the message. By showing the author a message wrapped to his window and not his "wrap-before-send" settings, there is a possibility that no two parties will ever see the message wrapped in the same manner. Haven't you ever read a message that was mailed to you or posted to USENet with Outlook Express using out of the box defaults? Being able to switch the formatting from during-the-edit to prior-to-send may be simple, or it may require a second complete edit module. In either case, I, for one, don't think it is worth the effort. I'd like to go on record as stating that such an option would not enhance The Bat!. Mike Yetto - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=MAY:PGP_Key E-mailed using The Bat! v1.49 running on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOmn+zdkz/SR3Uv4yEQJQSQCgiskthnLxa9l2SSQpIk8nVOMqYdgAoJI9 DAn5Nb8P5SpfSHXhsa17z5oa =RQ/+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
On January 20, 2001, at 11:48:32 AM, Mike Yetto Wrote: MY Should the demonstration in the previous paragraph actually work, my MY apologies to everyone else. It works Mike because TB!'s Editor is truly WYSIWYG. :o) Nick N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.49c | PGP 7.0.3 | Win 98 SE ] Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID: 0x7BA3FDCE -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 20 January 2001 at 12:18:58 -0800 (which was 20:18 where I live) George F Schoelles wrote and made these points: MDP There is no choice. Hard returns get used at some point. At MDP least in TB that point is "up front". In all other clients it's MDP either behind the scenes or at the whim of a routing MTA. MDP Whichever, it's out of the control of the message originator. MDP Give me control over random anarchy any day. What you propose as MDP an option is only possible when the routing is known. GFS So why do so many other clients handle this so much better? Better? Are you serious? Random - out of control anarchy is better? I don't think that your assertion will find much support in this forum. MDP The "attach a text file" work-around is *not* knee jerk. It is MDP 100% the correct solution. GFS So if I were to use a text-editor than attach it, I might as well GFS not use TB and route directly through sendmail, Then do so, but don't ask me to. GFS for it is my opinion that the editor is 90% of what makes the GFS client. Yes, and in my opinion the TB editor is second to none. Having said that, I happen to know that the editor is to be rewritten for v2. I personally hope that they don't lose too much of the current superb functionality, although I am well aware that the editor is not everyone's cup of tea. (Let's not start a fresh debate on free caret and blank line paragraph delimiters). However, the editor is not what has really been brought into question. It is the whole theory of pre-formatting - one of TB's basic tenets and one of the most fundamental and important differences between TB and the rest. If you find this basic concept unacceptable then it seems to me that you may have chosen the wrong email client for your needs. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49c S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOmn/TznkJKuSnc2gEQLoiwCeJFOpgi+aDgIxRHA8VGNzE0hMNGIAoOc3 jo6kfp6ffGGp3tmsl8PxOPdB =pEOa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, at 13:09:59 [GMT -0800], Nick Andriash wrote: MY Should the demonstration in the previous paragraph actually work, my MY apologies to everyone else. NA It works Mike because TB!'s Editor is truly WYSIWYG. :o) The beauty of this demonstration is that it won't work the same way for everyone. Did you see only one, excessively long line? That is what I saw before I sent it. I turned auto-wrap back on before I opened the message as it was returned to me in the list traffic, and, lo and behold, it did not look like what I sent. Mike Yetto - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=MAY:PGP_Key E-mailed using The Bat! v1.49 running on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOmoDCNkz/SR3Uv4yEQL5rQCfervb5RYpKJIVmaNdJfet0ft9BcgAoMlg ycHGycMEV7+shOngwQuMbj1w =kULy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
On January 20, 2001, at 1:28:40 PM, Mike Yetto Wrote: MY The beauty of this demonstration is that it won't work the same way MY for everyone. Did you see only one, excessively long line? That is MY what I saw before I sent it. I turned auto-wrap back on before I MY opened the message as it was returned to me in the list traffic, and, MY lo and behold, it did not look like what I sent. Well, no, I cannot view it as one excessively long line, because I am limited by the width of my 17" monitor. However, I was able to view it wrapped at 124, but again, that wrapping is a function of the size of my viewing window. If I was to reduce my font size so as the entire line length (241 I believe) would stretch across my screen, then that is what would show because that is where TB! inserted the hard return. :o) At least I *think* that is correct. ;o) Nick N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.49c | PGP 7.0.3 | Win 98 SE ] Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID: 0x7BA3FDCE -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Mike, Saturday, January 20, 2001, 1:10:31 PM, you wrote: MY Being able to switch the formatting from during-the-edit to MY prior-to-send may be simple, or it may require a second complete edit MY module. In either case, I, for one, don't think it is worth the MY effort. I'd like to go on record as stating that such an option would MY not enhance The Bat!. Of course it would not be an enhancement for you, but it would be for others. BTW, WYSIWYG is not a big deal in a text editor. WYSIWIG became a neat thing with True type and DTP and is virtually meaningless in this discussion. -- Best regards, George mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *Thawte authorized WOT Notary * ICQ: 122492 * ** If you wish good advice, consult an old man. Finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for keys -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:21:27 -0800, George graced us with these comments: ...snip... MDP That is a retrograde step. What TB does in pre-formatting beats MDP the other clients hands down in terms of plain text MDP presentation. The others all wrap *after* you hit send. What's MDP the point of that? The element of surprise? I want to see the MDP mail *before* it leaves. Hard returns are going to be used. At MDP least if they're seen *before* send is pressed then it is under MDP *my* control and not . I agree completely. GFS Fine this may be in your _opinion_, but how difficult could it be GFS to give the user the option. I've thought and deliberated over this issue for years of using e-mail clients and TB! handles things the right way. If things are done the right way, why ask for an option to do it the wrong way? :=) I cannot think of a situation where someone would genuinely wish to have their document *reformatted* with hard returns included and not care what it looks like before the recipient receives it. This is what TB! offers you. It's depressing that so many other clients fall short in this regard. If you wish to send messages with paragraphs containing no hard returns, for DTP processing, then that material should really be sent as an attachment. This sounds like I'm being imposing but it's not intended. I just feel strongly about it. If you don't agree, simply ignore me and don't forget the disclaimer in my signature. :=)) - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TB(UDL|BETA|TECH)] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ __ TB! v1.49b | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication. iQA/AwUBOmoVjlfJ62ArBxfiEQKJeQCfXwh09jR/O7hHuszOOhKdMDDg2aoAni8Q LOFxcLUX03kWhEYclxl8maYc =0Vhr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, at 14:45:30 [GMT -0800], George F Schoelles wrote: GFS Of course it would not be an enhancement for you, but it would be GFS for others. BTW, WYSIWYG is not a big deal in a text editor. GFS WYSIWIG became a neat thing with True type and DTP and is virtually GFS meaningless in this discussion. For the purposes of this discussion WYSIWIG has become synonymous with formatted text, although it is more than that. Nor is it dependent on True Type, Type 1 or DTP. You seem to be the only one participating in this thread who wants to change the practice of formatting the text while it is still visible. While this is not a standard, wrapping text at a reasonable value (65 columns, I think) is part of RFC-822. Doing it while the author can still see the results not only makes sense, but pays respect to that author. I realize that you do not want wrapped text and would rather no one else used it either. The way to reconcile your practice with my dislike of formatting that interferes with communication is for me to disregard the rest of this thread along with any future poorly formatted messages that appear on this list. Mike Yetto - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=MAY:PGP_Key E-mailed using The Bat! v1.49 running on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOmo6Pdkz/SR3Uv4yEQJV4ACgnw2cONnrNyuhBKB/XzyjevdU/A4An2CK uztD6rOSWvA/xm1gVBMjEmEr =zJEm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hallo George, On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:08:46 -0800 GMT (21/01/2001, 04:08 +0800 GMT), George F Schoelles wrote: GFS But at what point the Hard Returns are inserted is the problem. T You can set it. GFS Where other than by Number of characters? That's what I meant; I wasn't aware it's not what you asked. GFS I refer to during editing vs: after editing. Kind of like GFS auto-mating the alt+l thing. Mark the whole message and active auto-wrap and/or auto-format? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Doctors use computers to create a three demential picture of a person's brain. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello Marck, GFS WYSIWYG can be done with-out hard-returns. Eudora has done it GFS ever since 2.0. MDP This is literally impossible using plain ASCII text. Only Eudora users MDP can receive the messages as sent. At least with TB the message format MDP is universally legible. But how do you explain this: I made simple text message in Outlook Express 5.5 and choosed quoted-printable encoding. I've been watching it while editing and in Outbox, and saved in later in TXT file, and everything was fine. I GOT what I wanted to! Even with 8-bit letters correctly displayed. Wrapping option (to 76 chars, by default in OE) was available only with MIME/None. When I choose QP and/or Base64, my 'DTP problem' simply disappears! I tried it (QP encoding) in Bat!, but no results, hard returns are used, unfortunately! -- Best Regards, Lija, YUPCExpert-Owner [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hello TBUDL, The 'correct' encoding in my country is ISO-8859-2 with 8bit transfer (Serbian Latin / Croatian / Slovenian... since we in former Yugoslavia use high-ASCII characters and that's why we need 8 bits for transfer) and that's OK, but... I want to write messages with automatic wrapping and that's also OK in TB, but I want them WITHOUT CR/LF (Enter) codes at the end of each line! Is there any way or possibility to write them like one long line in Notepad with word-wrap option turned on, "ready for DTP processing"? That's why I can't never accept CR/LF codes... Just one big line, but wrapped automatically when reaching end of the display... What about quoted-printable encoding? Will this, if I use, remedy my 8-bit letters? Thank you very much in advance, I've been bugging with this for a long time ago! -- Best Regards, Lija, YUPCExpert-Owner [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Like Notepad with word-wrap...
Hi Lija, On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:17:53 +0100GMT (20/01/2001, 13:17 +0800GMT), Lija wrote: but... I want to write messages with automatic wrapping and that's also OK in TB, but I want them WITHOUT CR/LF (Enter) codes at the end of each line! TB's editor is a WYSIWYG editor. That means, if it shows you a new line, there really is a new line (hard return). IOW: TB's editor knows only hard return (CR/LF), and no soft returns as in Notepad. Advantage: the mail will be sent exactly the way you see it. Is there any way or possibility to write them like one long line in Notepad with word-wrap option turned on, "ready for DTP processing"? What is DTP processing? What about quoted-printable encoding? Will this, if I use, remedy my 8-bit letters? Dunno. Why don't you try it out? -- Cheers, Thomas. Co-Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
