Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Hello Charles, On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 at 19:52:05 [GMT +], you wrote: CC From what I've seen the developers of The Bat would be as well CC buying in a better mail list server - many are available. Just trying to determine which list you're speaking of. If it's this one (TBUDL), the developers have absolutely nothing to do with it. I created this list back in December of 1998 running entirely under The Bat. Once list traffic exceeded my meager 28.8K modem capabilities, it was moved to a list server, which later went down, and thanks to Marck and Syafril's quick action they picked up the list and it's being hosted by Syafril to this day. It is using the Listar software for the mailing list manager which is a true mailing list host. Over a period of time, we've discovered that most problems with the list are improperly sent posts by the users (things like not putting in a subject, sent to the server address instead of the post address), or that some other server in the chain to the subscriber is causing the problem. As for messages arriving out of order, there are two possibilities. One is the server issue I mentioned above where one of the servers in the chain between the list host and the subscriber is holding messages up, but the other is that oftentimes, the subscriber has their viewing options incorrectly set. Sorting by creation date vs. received date oftentimes fixes the apparent out of order messages. The cool thing about the TB lists (TBUDL, TBBETA, TBDEV, and TBTECH), is that oftentimes answers are provided just seconds after someone has posted a message. If for instance, some server on the way to you is holding up messages, the other list members might get it before you, reply, and because the reply goes a different path (hops), you might get the reply before you get the original question. There's really nothing any list software can do to overcome it. This is the way the Internet was designed (read up on Arpanet for more info). The bounces we moderators see on a daily basis is huge. We do our best to determine if the problem is with the list, but most times there isn't anything we can do about someone else's server. Cheers, Leif Gregory -- List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/47 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 256MB. Tagline of the day: A 'language' is a dialect with an army. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Leif, Just trying to determine which list you're speaking of. If it's this one (TBUDL), the developers have absolutely nothing to do with it. I created this list back in December of 1998 running entirely under Yes I read up on the history of this (these) lists and have downloaded some data on using the Bat for this. Thanks for all the info, most interesting, and previous to your message I fiddled with the sort order, to deal with the apparent order of the messages. I can well believe there's a lot of issues involved with list management - I deal with a few myself in fact. I just thought it odd that I didn't get the message in question and someone also mentioned messages that existed but never got onto the list, or returned to them, etc. Whether the message in my case was sent privately and then the person re-directed it back onto the list I don't know but I still never got it and have to query why. That was all. Apart from obvious failures at my pop3 server end, it's the first time I've known a list to fail to send me something. Not an exact science I grant you but still :) I tried following the leads to who ran the hardware and software for this list but came up against a brick wall really, so couldn't assess what was been used really. I was been aggressive about the list, however there is sufficient need now to move it to a NNTP server system if possible. Mailing lists are a pain at the best of times. Both for your management, as well as those of us with already busy inboxes. A general USENET NNTP group would be ideal and maybe leave the beta and more specialised lists on email. If you guys can host some NNTP server software locally, like this list server software then all the better, as it wouldn't then dependent on a good newsfeed. Just a thought. As to Arpanet, I wasn't aware that in relation to email this 'hopping' wasn't that much these days compared to the likes of NNTP server feeds. I would still certainly suggest a better method of support than email servers, especially as the user base grows. As you well know, NNTP gives me the better 'right' to get what I want instead of getting it all, or none. I don't like 'digests' either. At least consider it, that's all. Charles Collinson -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 @ 16:35:08 + [ Wed, 13 Mar 2002], Charles Collinson [CC] contributed this to our collective wisdom: ... CC Apart from obvious failures at my pop3 server end, it's the first CC time I've known a list to fail to send me something. Not an exact CC science I grant you but still :) The TBUDL list server is in Indonesia. I therefore have to give some slack to delivery issues as opposed to a list server that resides in the US. Though things are usually OK, problems do arise at times. After all that's said, the recent problems with the lists are secondary to local server issues which are being worked on. Things have improved and you should be seeing evidence of this as I have been. CC I was been aggressive about the list, however there is sufficient CC need now to move it to a NNTP server system if possible. Mailing CC lists are a pain at the best of times. Both for your management, as CC well as those of us with already busy inboxes. A general USENET NNTP CC group would be ideal and maybe leave the beta and more specialised CC lists on email. If you guys can host some NNTP server software CC locally, like this list server software then all the better, as it CC wouldn't then dependent on a good newsfeed. Just a thought. We've given this thought in the past and it has been discussed. There are two main reasons why we prefer an e-mail list. a) The list can be better moderated and hence the quality of the list maintained. There's always a lot of background noise in news groups because of the undesirables that hang around and create trouble. Filters help but not well enough. b) An e-mail list offers the user the opportunity to *use* TB!. For example, I often use these very messages on this list to test things and learn about TB!. I only use threading for these list type messages. Another reason not to use a NNTP server is that many TB! users don't use a News Reader and would therefore have to obtain one and learn how to use one. You've already stated the advantages of News Servers in that you can selectively download and read what messages you wish to. However, you have to go and get them rather than their getting to you directly. That's just a matter of taste though. - -- | Allie Martin - Moderator ox|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/47 Windows XP 5.1.2600 PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAjyPjL4ACgkQV8nrYCsHF+L/ogCg2FcyTYPYKeUeDrIDoIzvnSXc YksAn2z3DJXafoW1kHd/eeczbGWbxlHZ =oAiJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
DG, Why not run your own SMTP server, as I do, such as Mercury/32 or Postcast Server, and let it handle your SMTP requirements? It WILL inform you when I do and that's not my problem, if indeed there is a problem. I just never got one of the messages and also wanted to maybe put forward using a news server for support instead of, say, this email list. That was all :) Charles Collinson -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Allie, We've given this thought in the past and it has been discussed. There are two main reasons why we prefer an e-mail list. a) The list can be better moderated and hence the quality of the list maintained. All your points are true, especially maybe the latter ones about email been a quicker and easier option for some, however running a local news server gets rid of a lot of the undesirables. However, why not run both, if it's an issue. If not run two then get one put forward onto the USENET, which would maybe allow some of us to decide how to get the info? I'm new to the Bat, so the list is useful and currently message traffic isn't major, however lists are the first to get switched off where as news server can be opt'ed into and out of at a moments notice. They'd be no reason not to provide both either locally, or on USENET (last resort). I do see your points and going on message flow much are very valid. It might be interesting, though running a USENET group (put on USENET and ran through it, as compared to a local server), as it would capture those not on the list and I'm sure there will be very many users not on the list. At the same time it would maybe also give The Bat a little more exposure and allow users to pitch and cover it more, in a promotional kinda way. The TBUDL list server is in Indonesia. I therefore have to give some slack to delivery issues as opposed to I gathered as much and 'giving slack' is my middle name but it all has, or can have a knock effect commercially speaking. I can only assume that when version 2 comes along and it has a news reader in it, we'll see a group either local server, or USENET :) A day I look forward do indeed. If The Bat can do what it does for email with news, I'll be more than happy :) Getting way off point but just thought I'd pitch in with wanting better support access than an email server. BTW CC I was been aggressive about the list, however there is sufficient CC need now to move it to a NNTP server system if possible. Mailing As ever I miss an important ending off. I meant to say; I *wasn't* been aggressive about the list. Opps for that. Charles Collinson -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 @ 19:35:39 + [ Wed, 13 Mar 2002], Charles Collinson [CC] contributed this to our collective wisdom: ... snip CC Getting way off point but just thought I'd pitch in with wanting CC better support access than an email server. Good commentary there. Thanks for points with which I'm in agreement. Though we did stray away from the subject at hand, you brought up a very pertinent point that needs to be discussed intermittently. - -- __ Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/47 Windows XP 5.1.2600 PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAjyPrlgACgkQV8nrYCsHF+L2RQCg+qgFoaGbz5XNnjuuT+tvUpi0 pVsAoOjFa+OpR7bDg2Tm6LSZCX2j3VVq =vdrZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
DG, Sorry Charles. I lost you here. I see no quotes from myself therefore I am at loss as to what you are asking. Could you clue me in? Yea, sorry one of those weeks. It was your reply to someone else's reply to me. I got your message but never got the message that you were replying to - still haven't. Basically I also got an email off someone to leave it a day, etc, etc. From what I've seen the developers of The Bat would be as well buying in a better mail list server - many are available. Of all the ones I've ever used this one either doesn't send the message, or sends them out of order - suffice to say it's a bomb waiting to go off. If the developers can't get a free to access NNTP server sorted out then get a good list server provision. This one is not - currently. Anything 'bad' reflects on those that provide it and this one needs attention IMO. Personally they want to be looking into a free to access NNTP server set-up but sort something they must I fear. Sorry to be off topic. Charles Collinson -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
At 20:03 2002-03-11 +1100, you wrote: Some mailing lists to which I belong check that I use the correct name, and have posted from the correct SMTP (like Bat! mailing list, I suppose). Neither TBUDL nor TBBETA cares about which SMTP-server you use, they only cares about the From:address. What macro do I use to allow mail to be sent from bigpond, but to appear' as sent from rivernet, so it is accepted by the mailing list? I use %FROM=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my template for both TBUDL and TBBETA. -- Regards, Marcus Ohlström Now using Eudora, huh! -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Hello Charles, Monday, March 11, 2002, 10:41:03 AM, you wrote to TBUDL: CC You can't dial into x and expect to send email through someone CC else's SMTP server, etc. I have loads of dial-ups and making sure CC I'm on the right SMTP server was hassle. I solved it by using: CC http://www.mailutilities.com/adr/ However you can do the same CC with: http://www.postcastserver.com www.myrealbox.com has a free smpt server based on login that can be used from anywhere. -- Best regards, Ottar Grimstad, Norway mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.online.no/~ottgrims Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/45 on Windows 98 version 4,10 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
DG, Totally off topic here but I never got this email below? Is there an issue with the list server, or me, or in fact the time it takes to get email? Greetings Ottar, On Monday, March 11, 2002, 11:15:23 AM, you wrote: Ottar Hello Charles, Ottar Monday, March 11, 2002, 10:41:03 AM, you wrote to TBUDL: CC You can't dial into x and expect to send email through someone CC else's SMTP server, etc. I have loads of dial-ups and making sure CC I'm on the right SMTP server was hassle. I solved it by using: CC http://www.mailutilities.com/adr/ However you can do the same CC with: http://www.postcastserver.com Ottar www.myrealbox.com has a free smpt server based on login that can be Ottar used from anywhere. Charles Collinson -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
TBBETA Subscribe address - was Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Hello Big, On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 at 21:14:34 [GMT +1100], you wrote: BP BTW what is the subscribe address to the beta list? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers, Leif Gregory -- List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/45 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 256MB. Tagline of the day: Eat right. Stay fit. Die anyway. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: How do I send from a selected isp?
Hello Charles, Monday, March 11, 2002, 7:38:54 PM, you wrote to TBUDL: CC Totally off topic here but I never got this email below? Is there CC an issue with the list server, or me, or in fact the time it takes CC to get email? And I have messages in my Sent-box that I never have seen on the list. -- Best regards, Ottar Grimstad, Norway mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.online.no/~ottgrims Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/45 on Windows 98 version 4,10 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
