Re: Karin and The Bat

[A . Curtis Martin]

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On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:32:26 +0100, Deryk Lister wrote:

DL> How long's that been lurking there? All this time and I never
DL> noticed it ;)

Probably just as well because I may raise your hopes and then you try
entering some of your own text immediately above a quoted paragraph and
WHAMMO!!, the quoted paragraph below is wrapped with the text you're
entering. To fix that, *immediately* stop typing , and hit
 to undo the mess. After a few of these infuriating
episodes you will one day either throw up your arms in frustration and
turn the option off or get the hang of ensuring that a blank line
separates you from the paragraph above and the one below before you
start typing a new paragraph. The latter happened to me and I have still
since turned it off anyway. :-(

DL> I do see what you mean :-) There are times when I leave a line and
DL> times when I don't depending on how important I think it is to start
DL> a new paragraph... time to adapt or leave it :)

Pretty much!

DL> Courier new is nice enough for me!

Yukky. :-) I have quite a collection here:
Lucida Sans Typ - my choice at present.
Lucida Sans Typewriter
Oloron Condensed
BSU-Kermit and BSU-Kermit Medium
Fixedsys
Andale Mono
Terminal

You may visit this link http://home.bsu.edu/prn/monofont/index.html to
get at some other fonts.

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Re: Karin and The Bat

[Tony Boom]

This message: 19/09/2000 13:29 GMT.

Hello Graham,


  A reminder of what Graham ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed on:
  19 September 2000 at 06:22:28 GMT +0100

G> That's why The Bat is on my computer and I do
G> use it, but for me Calypso 3.1 rules.


  I've been using Calypso 3.10 for the past week. It's nice, but then...
  Who want's just nice when you can have it all!

  Seriously, I'm still playing with it on one of my other accounts and I
  must admit it is a very good program.

  There is just too much "Nice" and not quite enough "Get in there and do
  it" for me.

  It just can't quite cut it as far as I am concerned. But, each to his
  own.

  If you want an email program that is "Really nice" but is totally useless
  try Incredimail

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Tony.

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Re: Karin and The Bat

[A . Curtis Martin]

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On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:20:13 +0100, Deryk Lister wrote:

DL> If you want to see my idea of a really good email editor (although
DL> it's not such a good client) check out AMEOL from www.ameol.com

DL> It's designed for an old conferencing system in the UK called CIX -
DL> some people still use it as a nice moderated alternative to usenet -
DL> but the thing I really like about the client is the message editor.

DL> You know how email is wrapped at 82 characters by standard.

Well, the recommended character limit is 80. But RFC standards state
a range of 60-80 characters that is acceptable. This is a 'should'
standard, not a 'must'. :-)

DL> You know how in TB, whilst you're editing a message it wraps the
DL> words just nicely to fit. However - what if I was to go back to the
DL> above paragraph and add a few words to the first line? In TB, the
DL> line just gets longer than 82 characters and you have to do a manual
DL> ALT-L to put the paragraph back in place.

This is without auto-format enabled.

DL> In AMEOL, there is a solid barrier at 82 characters. No matter how
DL> hard you try, you can't go over it :) It's a system that I really
DL> like - because you know for certain that how an email appears is the
DL> same as how it will be recieved, without pressing any hotkeys.
DL> Everything about that editor is exactly how I think TB's should be.
DL> If you set it up to do so, it will keep all lines at exactly 82
DL> characters long by a more traditional form of wordwrap - if you
DL> finish a line with a long word, it will split the word up between 2
DL> lines with a dash. For exam- ple... like that :)

Try enabling autoformat but *fasten your seatbelt* when you do it
because you may be in for some jolts of surprises. :-)) To help tamper
the anguish, remember that TB!'s editor denotes separate paragrahs by a
blank line. The autoformat will, unrelentingly , without remorse
, keep the line length as the user defined. You'll see what I mean.

DL> Having said that, I think it should be an option whether users want
DL> to use fixed-width or proportional fonts - many people use Outlook
DL> anyway so it can't do any harm now to have the option. But I'd
DL> really like to see that "bug" with editing existing lines fixed if
DL> anything...

Yeah, I don't think you should be forced to, but I do encourage using a
fixed width font. It's very practical and sensible when the issues are
examined. The only plus for using a variable width font is a purely
selfish one, ie, visual appeal. When I saw the advantage to using a
fixed width font, I went on the net to find a decent enough looking one
and have.

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Re: Karin and The Bat

[Deryk Lister]

> I know many of you follow the (limited) fixed width fonts with
> evangelical fervour, but I don't like the way they look.  And I
> prefer something like Editpad to The Bat's internal editor. I can't
> even get the PGP 2.6.3 executable function to work!

If you want to see my idea of a really good email editor (although
it's not such a good client) check out AMEOL from www.ameol.com

It's designed for an old conferencing system in the UK called CIX -
some people still use it as a nice moderated alternative to usenet -
but the thing I really like about the client is the message editor.

You know how email is wrapped at 82 characters by standard.  You know
how in TB, whilst you're editing a message it wraps the words just
nicely to fit.  However - what if I was to go back to the above
paragraph and add a few words to the first line?  In TB, the line just
gets longer than 82 characters and you have to do a manual ALT-L to
put the paragraph back in place.

In AMEOL, there is a solid barrier at 82 characters. No matter how
hard you try, you can't go over it :) It's a system that I really like
- because you know for certain that how an email appears is the same
as how it will be recieved, without pressing any hotkeys. Everything
about that editor is exactly how I think TB's should be. If you set it
up to do so, it will keep all lines at exactly 82 characters long by a
more traditional form of wordwrap - if you finish a line with a long
word, it will split the word up between 2 lines with a dash. For exam-
ple... like that :)

Having said that, I think it should be an option whether users want to
use fixed-width or proportional fonts - many people use Outlook anyway
so it can't do any harm now to have the option.  But I'd really like
to see that "bug" with editing existing lines fixed if anything...

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Re: Karin and The Bat

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Graham,

On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:22:28 +0100GMT (19/09/2000, 13:22 +0800GMT),
Graham wrote:

G> The Bat has a great deal of computing power behind it,
G> but in my book its interface is terrible.

I don't think it's actually "terrible"; why don't you make a
suggestion as to it could be improved? Some mock-up screen shots, or
some hand-made graphics (drafts), something for us to know what you're
talking about.

G> And I prefer something like Editpad to The Bat's internal editor.

How many times is this coming up. You can use your preferred external
editor in v2. No need to beat up this dead horse any more.

G> The Group seems to be divided between those who are used to
G> traditional (unix?) computer interfaces, which The Bat most closely
G> follows

In my unix times, we had only CLI - command line interface. I actually
only saw the KDE Linux interface a few months ago for the first time
(and didn't like it).

G> and those, like me, who have grown up with Windows.

I have gronw up with CLI's of different flavour, and that was before
MS-DOS; I have learned to love unix shells.

G> and until The Bat's interface resembles something like Calypso's or
G> Eudora's, others out there won't be interested in trying it, no
G> matter how much power the program has.

That is certainly true for the masses; the majority of TB users are
power users that care more about functionlity than look. However, it
would not be wrong to increase the visiual appeal, don't get me wrong
here. There are some violations to good HCI principles (HCI =
Human-computer Interface), but I'd rather live with them than use
good-looking programmes like Eudora (which I used before I discovered
TB) that have less power (or functionality).

G> That's why The Bat is on my computer and I do use it, but for me
G> Calypso 3.1 rules.

Unofrtunately, I cannot comment on this, because I never used Calypso.

G> the answers have enlightened me as to the way The Bat can be made
G> to work better. But it doesn't *LOOK* better than others out there.

We don't compete on the catwalk here. HCI design is important, but
functionality is more important. We are talking about two developers
who single-handedly (how's that possible, two people and only one
hand?) design, develop, code, engineer, analyse, and do whatever with
this mammal. the interface is not "bad", it's just not a priority.

That's my personal opinion, maybe I'm going to be flogged. In that
case, I'll be out of the office now. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46c
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.

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