Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters)

2006-12-13 Thread Roelof Otten 
Hallo Jernej,

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:08:51 +0100GMT (13-12-2006, 10:08 +0200, where
I live), you wrote:

JS> Modern Linux distributions let you do as you please. For a typical home


Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not
just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have
instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Jernej.

  )<)))'>

This topic has gone way "off" / too long / too heated and I
am forced to pronounce it dead in fairness to the purpose and other
members of the list.

Please take it off-list or to TBOT.

For anyone unfamiliar with Dead Horse policy, DEAD means DEAD. NO
REPLIES to the list, only off-list or on TBOT.

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Thank you.


-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

If ignorance is bliss, Moderators must be >very< happy!


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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-13 Thread Jernej Simončič 
On Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 0:55:22, Mica Mijatovic wrote:

> Yes, they do that too, and in various ways. Basically, the entire
> "administration" can be (and indeed is, by more advanced, "demanding",
> "weird" users) divided into much more specialized sectors, and perhaps
> best example is the quite "classical" Linux/Unix strategy. There you can
> see that it by default has several (6-7) main partitions...
> /bin # programs coming with OS itself and shared by all users
> /etc # OS settings and related tools
> /home# place for (non-root) users
> /root# for the "boss" and his/her privileged secrets and tricks
> /tmp
> /usr # for programs installed and shared by users

This is actually wrong - of these only /home, /tmp and /usr can be on a
separate partition. /bin, /etc, /sbin must always be on the root partition,
or the system won't boot (/root can be on a separate partition, but you'll
have problems if you ever need to boot to single-user mode; also, the
typical /root directory is so small it doesn't make sense to waste space by
using a separate partition for it).

>This of course is not the case with "modern" Linux installations
>that imitate the Windows, installing all on just one single
>partition, in order to make it for the users accustomed to
>Windows easier to manage.

Modern Linux distributions let you do as you please. For a typical home
user, there's no point in using more than two partitions (/ and swap), and
it makes it much easier to manage the system.

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://deepthought.ena.si/ >

In any household, junk accumulates to fill the space available for its storage.
   -- Boston's Irreversible Law of Clutter



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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-12 Thread Mica Mijatovic 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Tue, 12 Dec 2006,
   @  @  at 15:09:59 +, when MFPA wrote:

>> This schema with three main partitions (OS | Programs |
>> Data/Documents) is the best/safest way. Many professionals find it as
>> best solution too. Often is done further division of the Data as well
>> (e.g. private, business etc.).

> I have seen advocated partitions for TEMP and Archive in addition to
> those three, although I suppose Archive is just another example of a
> further division of Data.

Yes, they do that too, and in various ways. Basically, the entire
"administration" can be (and indeed is, by more advanced, "demanding",
"weird" users) divided into much more specialized sectors, and perhaps
best example is the quite "classical" Linux/Unix strategy. There you can
see that it by default has several (6-7) main partitions...

/bin # programs coming with OS itself and shared by all users
/etc # OS settings and related tools
/home# place for (non-root) users
/root# for the "boss" and his/her privileged secrets and tricks
/tmp
/usr # for programs installed and shared by users

...and so on.

   This of course is not the case with "modern" Linux installations
   that imitate the Windows, installing all on just one single
   partition, in order to make it for the users accustomed to
   Windows easier to manage.

Also, there are users who in Windows, in return, apply exactly the rules
and habits found in the "classic" Linux, making thus separate dedicated
partitions for, as you have mentioned, TEMP, Archive, Documents and so
on, and changing the system variables to point to these partitions
accordingly, instead to the default addresses.

> Out of interest (and at the risk of moving too far off-topic), what
> are the arguments either way between using partitions or physical
> drives?

This part is not clear to me. I will suppose that by "drives" you here
mean actually "hard disk", in contrast to the part of it, partition
(since "drive" and "partition" are most frequently used as synonyms)?

If yes, then there is no any significant difference, for the goal is
same: to keep various types of data separated, and thus to provide more
security/safety for them. (If OS kicks the bucket, the Documents will
remain unaffected and so forth.)

In particular situations, it's even better to keep your Documents on
separate hard disk, since this way they are even more isolated from the
rest, and if it is even a portable, USB and so on hard disk, then even
better - anyone who would by a chance access your machine, wouldn't find
any data on it except the OS and usual programs, so couldn't screw
something up, be that intentionally or not.

And it is all actually very much on topic too, since it can be applied
to mail administration as well: separate partition, or even hard disk,
for the mail only, or even two or more partitions, for various types of
mail - private, business and so on.

Then, it is much less risky if you encrypt just individual partition
then the entire hard disk.

So, this division into partitions, and even the use of dedicated hard
disks, is very useful and practical thing and can be applied in many
various situations.

We of course are forced to learn this and similar things usually not
until having undergone some loss of (valuable) data, so that actually a
certain pain is our "stimulator" much rather than a fancy wish to be a
"geeks". 

- --
Mica
 ~~~ For personal mail please use my address as it is *exactly* given
 in my "From" field, otherwise it will not reach me. ~~~
GPG keys/docs/software at: http://blueness.port5.com/pgpkeys/
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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-12 Thread MFPA 
Hi

On Friday 8 December 2006 at 2:49:10 PM, in
, Mica Mijatovic wrote:

> This schema with three main partitions (OS | Programs | Data/Documents)
> is the best/safest way. Many professionals find it as best solution too.
> Often is done further division of the Data as well (e.g. private,
> business etc.).

I have seen advocated partitions for TEMP and Archive in addition
to those three, although I suppose Archive is just another example
of a further division of Data.

Out of interest (and at the risk of moving too far off-topic),
what are the arguments either way between using partitions or
physical drives?

-- 
Best regards,
 
MFPA

Keep them dry and don't feed them after midnight

Using The Bat! v3.80.06 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1



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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-09 Thread Mica Mijatovic 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Fri, 8 Dec 2006,
   @  @  at 17:56:29 -0600, when Douglas Hinds wrote:

>> This schema with three main partitions (OS | Programs |
>> Data/Documents) is the best/safest way. Many professionals find it as
>> best solution too. Often is done further division of the Data as well
>> (e.g. private, business etc.).

> Organizing an efficient directory system isn't easy. It's like
> designing a Thesaurus and lets you know where to find what you're
> looking for.

It can be tricky, yes, like organizing life. If you know what you do and
what you want, you have better chances however. Then the size matters
also. I keep all "My Documents/MOJA AKTA", all sorts of edited files, at
one partition (encrypted "container"), but not my mail since it's too
big, so for the mail only I have to have dedicated partition (actually
another encrypted container, with TB installed on it) as well. And so
on.

And sometimes in the course of events it shows as not just ideal way so
I have to remodel it anew.

...

>> On TBUDL I think I already have sent instructions on how to install
>> TB in Linux using Wine.

> I don't have access to the TBUDL archives on this computer. I'd have
> to look for it on the dutaint website.

I yet have to detect this message (too busy day today here[1]) and then
will adapt it for Knoppix.

...

> And the lists were so civilized.

The more you are with people the more you know them. And "they all look
normal until you know them", as the famous tag/cookie says.

> There was no gang banging then.

Definitely not. Again, gangs are accustomed to deal with a victim type,
and is big surprise then when they discover that they deal actually with
a hunter type. The price of inattentiveness. But I think it will be
solved in a productive and "socially acceptable" way.

...

> I had 50 mg of encrypted email I couldn't access. A good friend from
> TBUDL (Conrad, who may still be lurking), helped me remedy that.
> (While Calypso's just sat there and smirked).

This is the real and genuine value of the very purpose of the lists as
such. Internet indeed is amazing means for all sorts of good things too.
A real miracles may be made this way, and they really are made, every
now and then. Just depends on what direction one decides to take.

...

> From what I've read since I posted that, upgrading to Vista isn't a
> good idea unless the computer comes with it.

I have not much informations of Vista, yet.

...

>> Unfortunately I'll have to scrutinize this OS too, wishing this
>> pleasure or not, as I had with XP(ee), since I have to "be in touch"
>> with MS "products", even if and when I don't use them myself a lot
>> (cooperators, clients and similar).

> You're a guru, then.

I go actually into an OS just as much as I need in my practical work (to
protect files and similar). Unfortunately, it sometimes goes a way
deeper than I would ever wish. It always takes more time than I would
wish to spend for, and I don't like it. But I have to do my "homework".


DH>>> The main advantage to using windows is the tremendous amount of
DH>>> third party software, shareware and freeware available.

>> Indeed. It is still so. Linux is good for some more specialized, and
>> "safer", more stable, work, but plenty of that is still in the area
>> of Windows, including indeed fantastic games, for instance, but some
>> other quite useful software too.

> It's like a poorly designed city - but that's where the people are.

Yes, and one has to manage with it, somehow.





[1] I had to leave my mother in hospital today due to it seems slighter
cerebral hemorrhage this forenoon. She couldn't pronounce/articulate
words normally, nor to write, although understanding everything told,
and, yes, she doesn't like to take medicaments regularly. And suddenly I
encountered today so many people and friends with their parents being in
even worse conditions...


- --
Mica
 ~~~ For personal mail please use my address as it is *exactly* given
 in my "From" field, otherwise it will not reach me. ~~~
GPG keys/docs/software at: http://blueness.port5.com/pgpkeys/
   http://tronogi.tripod.com/pgp/pgpkeys/
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 Windows XP(ee) Micro Lite Professional 1.6, Gentoo & Vector ~ Wine
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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Douglas Hinds 

Hello Mica,

>> However - Knoppix 5.5.1 is not there.

> Sorry for making you busy for nothing

It wasn't for nothing and didn't take long.

> and confused,

Confused? Never!

> it was my typo, and even twice. I espied it but was too late. So,
> the 5.0.1 is most recent version, 5.5.1 doesn't exist.

Not yet, anyway.

> I'll respond to the rest of your message later.

Real good.

> Instructions on how to install it on HDD, I (re)send in response to
> Benedict's message.

I've already colored it important.

-- 

Douglas



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Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Mica Mijatovic 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Fri, 8 Dec 2006,
   @  @  at 23:31:30 +, when Benedict Allen wrote:

> Howdy Mica,

> Friday, December 8, 2006, 2:49:10 PM, Mica wrotened:

>>> Knoppix runs from a CD. I have an older version (3.6) of it.

MM>> Knoppix also can be installed quite easily to hard disk as well (the
MM>> easiest Linux installation actually, but is not very known, taking about
MM>> 20 minutes and being 98,7% automatic). Very easy instructions I have
MM>> sent recently to a TBOT (to a...member claiming he is not Dick
MM>> Whittington and who couldn't manage with it). If you want I can resend
MM>> these instructions.

> 2) You should have your Windows imaged (Ghost v8 is quite fine)
> somewhere. (:

> 3) You should indeed download XOSL (it's freeware, and I think even open
> source) and install it, even without other OS (Linux) installed, to see
> how it works (it can work even with just one OS, and be useful for some
> things). Install it on C: drive.

> Strangely   there   was  no  1).  But  as  I  recall  these  were  the
> instructions.


   *


In _this_ message, everything preceding the 2) is 1).

You managed not only to mix up messages but the lists too. Why is so, we
may just wonder...

This is what I wrote, once upon a time, when I thought it's a well spent
time (and I should be beaten for it, because I deserve it), on TBOT (but
since it's useful for those wanting to try TB in Linux I'll resend this
text here on TBUDL). Here it goes...


///--->>>

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: advice

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Sat, 14 Oct 2006,
   @  @  at 01:32:29 +0100, when Ben Allen wrote:

> Howdy Flying Rodent fans,

>   I'm  just  writing here to get advice really. I have finally decided
>   to  take  the  plunge  and  experiment with linux. So I was about to
>   start  by  creating  a dual boot partition. Then I realised I had no
>   idea what I was doing... So I came here looking for someone to point
>   me  in the right direction. And dont recommend a program that i have
>   to  pay  for... coz i cant afford to pay for anything at the moment.
>   Darn contract changes

Download XOSL (Extended Operative System Loader), so any time you change
something with your OSs, in terms of installing a new one, or
reinstalling them (from an image or otherwise) you have just to go to
DOS and run the XOSL to restore, or install anew, your boot sector(s),
in practically seconds.

I have several Linuxes and Windows, and am switching between them quite
often, also rebuilding them and then re-installing them from images, so
the tinkering with the boot processes, the order of OSs etc. is almost a
daily routine, and is done very easy with XOSL.

When you install Linux, don't install boot loader (Lilo or Grub) on MBR,
but on the partition you install the Linux on, for if it goes to MBR it
will overtake booting of all OSs you have, which is not very pretty
(since they then depend on the particular OS/Linux, and besides you will
have yet to tweak each additionally). Save this, anytime you (re)install
a Windows anew, it will overtake MBR, screwing up your Linux boot
loader.

When you install Linux boot loader on the given Linux partition, you
have just to run XOSL then and to line up all the systems you have --
with their original individual boot methods/sectors. It is same when you
(re)install a Windows.

  ***

If you are new to Linux...before you start with installation, run
Partition Magic from Windows and make two Linux partitions: one of say 3
GB (you don't need more, even for biggest Linux) for the Linux package
itself and one of say 250 MB for swap, so the installation will find
them automatically and thus you will not be thrown into quite unfamiliar
Linux' partition program(s) where you can screw up something quite
easily, including your Windows installation/files (or even the whole
disk).

An ultra-easy way of installing Linux is to take _Knoppix_ 5.0.1, the
"live CD" and to install it on HDD. It takes about 20 minutes for very
average and perhaps even somewhat outdated machine (as to RAM, CPU)
after which you have _completely tweaked/tuned_, and yet excellently, as
to precision, security and stability, Linux.

If you decide this, then just boot using the live CD, open Konsole (you
will see the icon in "quick start" sector of the task bar) and type in
this...

sudo ./knoppix-installer

...hit [enter] button, and installation will start.

When you are prompted for the type of installation, choose
"debian/typical/recommended", not "beginner", for you'll be given more
choices. (Once you became familiar with this one, you may safely kid
with other two types/styles -- or simply make 3 Linux partitions at once
and install them all, so you can scrutinize differences, it's very
educative "distro" as well.)

When

Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Mica Mijatovic 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Fri, 8 Dec 2006,
   @  @  at 17:56:29 -0600, when Douglas Hinds wrote:

> However - Knoppix 5.5.1 is not there.

Sorry for making you busy for nothing and confused, it was my typo, and
even twice. I espied it but was too late. So, the 5.0.1 is most recent
version, 5.5.1 doesn't exist. I'll respond to the rest of your message
later.

Instructions on how to install it on HDD, I (re)send in response to
Benedict's message.

- --
Mica
 ~~~ For personal mail please use my address as it is *exactly* given
 in my "From" field, otherwise it will not reach me. ~~~
GPG keys/docs/software at: http://blueness.port5.com/pgpkeys/
   http://tronogi.tripod.com/pgp/pgpkeys/
[Earth LOG: 670 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing]
OSs: Windows 98 SE Micro Lite Professional IVa Enterprise Millennium
 Windows XP(ee) Micro Lite Professional 1.6, Gentoo & Vector ~ Wine
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Re[2]: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Douglas Hinds 

Hello Mica,


DH>> That's why I have my OS's and Applications in different partitions.
DH>> (Data too).

> This schema with three main partitions (OS | Programs | Data/Documents)
> is the best/safest way. Many professionals find it as best solution too.
> Often is done further division of the Data as well (e.g. private,
> business etc.).

Organizing an efficient directory system isn't easy. It's like
designing a Thesaurus and lets you know where to find what you're
looking for.

MM>>> You could try it yourself and see does this speed match your
MM>>> working habits, temperament (my best experiences so far are with
MM>>> Knoppix 5.0.1 and the version of Wine coming with it). Except the
MM>>> speed and some aesthetic quirks, slight twitches and
MM>>> peculiarities, everything works, and as usual.

DH>> Knoppix runs from a CD. I have an older version (3.6) of it.

> Knoppix also can be installed quite easily to hard disk as well
> (the easiest Linux installation actually, but is not very known,
> taking about 20 minutes and being 98,7% automatic). Very easy
> instructions I have sent recently to a TBOT (to a...member ... If
> you want I can resend these instructions.

> Knoppix 5.5.1 (on CD and on HDD) is even better than 3.x versions
> (having better version of Wine as well), but versions 3 also can
> be installed on hard disk (the same procedure, you just call the
> installation script that does everything needed). The 5.5.1 has
> three types of installation: typical Debian one, then for
> beginners, and one exactly as it is on CD (with a fine sexy female
> voice at the opening and the closing of the system).

 includes:

 knoppix-nsm/09-May-2006 06:09-
 knoppix-std/23-Jul-2003 15:39-   
 knoppix/02-Jun-2006 18:00-   
 knoppixmame/18-Feb-2004 21:02-

The third one includes:

   KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-DE.iso  02-Jun-2006 12:42  696M
   KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-DE.iso.md5  02-Jun-2006 12:54   69
   KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-DE.iso.md5.asc  02-Jun-2006 16:42  305
X  KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso  02-Jun-2006 12:49  696M
   KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso.md5  02-Jun-2006 12:55   69
   KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso.md5.asc  02-Jun-2006 16:42  305

 has a Knoppix
tutorial and HowTo-Burn

However - Knoppix 5.5.1 is not there. So I went to:
 and they don't have it either. Are you
sure about the version number?

> On TBUDL I think I already have sent instructions on how to
> install TB in Linux using Wine.

I don't have access to the TBUDL archives on this computer. I'd have
to look for it on the dutaint website.

DH>> TB! users are not main stream people and IMO, RitLab's
DH>> targeting main stream windows users at the expense of more
DH>> resourceful individuals was a mistake.

> Well...appetites for "popularity" increase and the target group
> changes, yes. Hence the needs of aristocracy of e-mailing world
> are not priority anymore, as it was once upon a time, since the
> Fine Product has to be spread among wide public masses as well
> (the very reason why the Ministry of Silly Features and Ministry
> of Useless Wishes were established), and hence the droop in
> quality. I resisted for a while, and then found myself quite
> pleased with just watching it from the gallery separe (and
> commenting on occasion, with or without petards and tomatoes).

DH>> The TB! lists are an important resource but RitLab's tech
DH>> support is pretty good too. I've always gotten responses and a
DH>> developer is going to be much more competent than a lot of
DH>> those insolent fools working at larger corporations.

> I've heard that they indeed are good and quite fair, although
> never had need for their help, assistance. TB (expert) lists do
> indeed excellent work, and lots of members here are quite helpful
> and effective. Most of them are besides quite friendly, of
> undamaged nerves, literate and genuinely civilized too, that
> contributes to the experience, so that I almost feel as in old
> good times of TB being a mailer for real aristocracy.

And the lists were so civilized. There was no gang banging then.

DH>> I used Calypso before discovering TB! and had a nightmarish
DH>> experience with it and especially, with their
DH>> worse-than-nothing Dallas based tech support staff.

> I've heard about lots of such experiences too, with various
> manufacturers.

I had 50 mg of encrypted email I couldn't access. A good friend from
TBUDL (Conrad, who may still be lurking), helped me remedy that.
(While Calypso's just sat there and smirked).

DH>> Vista is said to be more stable than previous versions of windows and
DH>> RitLabs has announced that a Vista certified version of Tb! will be
DH>> released soon.

> There you see. Windows become more and more "specialized" and
> "picky" in order to defend their shaky stability. At the end they
> wi

Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Benedict Allen 
Howdy Mica,

Friday, December 8, 2006, 2:49:10 PM, Mica wrotened:

>> Knoppix runs from a CD. I have an older version (3.6) of it.

MM> Knoppix also can be installed quite easily to hard disk as well (the
MM> easiest Linux installation actually, but is not very known, taking about
MM> 20 minutes and being 98,7% automatic). Very easy instructions I have
MM> sent recently to a TBOT (to a...member claiming he is not Dick
MM> Whittington and who couldn't manage with it). If you want I can resend
MM> these instructions.

2) You should have your Windows imaged (Ghost v8 is quite fine)
somewhere. (:

3) You should indeed download XOSL (it's freeware, and I think even open
source) and install it, even without other OS (Linux) installed, to see
how it works (it can work even with just one OS, and be useful for some
things). Install it on C: drive.

Strangely   there   was  no  1).  But  as  I  recall  these  were  the
instructions.




-- 
Have Fun,

Ben Allen

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
crashing The Bat! v3.86.8 ALPHA (beta)
falling out of mid air with Windows XP 5.1 Build  2600
Service Pack 2 
Billy's gonna be a `Boil-In-The-Bag' dinner soon! -- Crow





Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Updating TB! - Knoppix on HDD, Wine and pretas, ghouls and other monsters

2006-12-08 Thread Mica Mijatovic 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

   ***^\ ."_)~~
 ~( __ _"o   Was another beautiful day, Thu, 7 Dec 2006,
   @  @  at 18:40:46 -0600, when Douglas Hinds wrote:

DH>>> B Gates could be the devil.

>> Well, the impulse to control/"rule" just everything and yet due to
>> greediness is a demonic property, yes. Some call them "hungry spirits",

> Insatiable and born and raised to cheat and lie.

>> beings of artificial appetite that is impossible to satisfy, so
>> they are depicted as terribly skinny creatures with huge
>> balloon-alike stomachs.

> Sounds like a ghoul.

"Hungry ghost" would be somewhat better term, yes, instead of "hungry
spirit", although both are used. It is from Sanskrit "preta", Japanese
"gaki". (One of quite fine imagery is attached in copied message to
TBOT: preta-HungrySpirit-Ghost.jpg, 17.793) The entire picture/scroll
can be found here too:
.

This Tanka Art Galery (of Tibetan origin)
 includes
plenty of imageries of various psychological functions/states as well.

...

> I think that will work most of the time but it depends on the upgrade.
> The logical thing to do would be to check with the TB! Tech support
> Staff.

Yes, it works most of the time, but if there are some very special
changes in routines, one has to do a complete {up|down}grade (with
deinstall and new install).


> That's why I have my OS's and Applications in different partitions.
> (Data too).

This schema with three main partitions (OS | Programs | Data/Documents)
is the best/safest way. Many professionals find it as best solution too.
Often is done further division of the Data as well (e.g. private,
business etc.).


>> You could try it yourself and see does this speed match your
>> working habits, temperament (my best experiences so far are with
>> Knoppix 5.0.1 and the version of Wine coming with it). Except the
>> speed and some aesthetic quirks, slight twitches and
>> peculiarities, everything works, and as usual.

> Knoppix runs from a CD. I have an older version (3.6) of it.

Knoppix also can be installed quite easily to hard disk as well (the
easiest Linux installation actually, but is not very known, taking about
20 minutes and being 98,7% automatic). Very easy instructions I have
sent recently to a TBOT (to a...member claiming he is not Dick
Whittington and who couldn't manage with it). If you want I can resend
these instructions.

Knoppix 5.5.1 (on CD and on HDD) is even better than 3.x versions
(having better version of Wine as well), but versions 3 also can be
installed on hard disk (the same procedure, you just call the
installation script that does everything needed). The 5.5.1 has three
types of installation: typical Debian one, then for beginners, and one
exactly as it is on CD (with a fine sexy female voice at the opening and
the closing of the system).

On TBUDL I think I already have sent instructions on how to install TB
in Linux using Wine.

> TB! users are not main stream people and IMO, RitLab's targeting main
> stream windows users at the expense of more resourceful individuals
> was a mistake.

Well...appetites for "popularity" increase and the target group changes,
yes. Hence the needs of aristocracy of e-mailing world are not priority
anymore, as it was once upon a time, since the Fine Product has to be
spread among wide public masses as well (the very reason why the
Ministry of Silly Features and Ministry of Useless Wishes were
established), and hence the droop in quality. I resisted for a while,
and then found myself quite pleased with just watching it from the
gallery separe (and commenting on occasion, with or without petards and
tomatoes).

> The TB! lists are an important resource but RitLab's tech support is
> pretty good too. I've always gotten responses and a developer is going
> to be much more competent than a lot of those insolent fools working
> at larger corporations.

I've heard that they indeed are good and quite fair, although never had
need for their help, assistance. TB (expert) lists do indeed excellent
work, and lots of members here are quite helpful and effective. Most of
them are besides quite friendly, of undamaged nerves, literate and
genuinely civilized too, that contributes to the experience, so that I
almost feel as in old good times of TB being a mailer for real
aristocracy.

> I used Calypso before discovering TB! and had a nightmarish experience
> with it and especially, with their worse-than-nothing Dallas based
> tech support staff.

I've heard about lots of such experiences too, with various
manufacturers.

> Vista is said to be more stable than previous versions of windows and
> RitLabs has announced that a Vista certified version of Tb! will be
> released soon.

There you see. Windows become more and more "specialized" and "picky" in
order to defend their shaky stability. At the end the