[Texascavers] Old Carbide Cans
Old Carbide cans: http://www.lamp-tramp.com/calciumcarbidemfrs.htm Mike - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: an awesome LED lantern
David, I was at Fry's yesterday and was a bit dissappointed with the wide selection of flashlights. One that did catch my eye was a lazer shaped tube about 10 inches long that came with another light dispersion tube also about 10 inches long that screwed into the first piece and made an object about 20 inches long. I would have bought it, but it didn't look like you could turn it on and leave it on. Like so many of the products there, you need to continue to press a button to get light out of the thing. Mike On Sun, 21 Oct 2007, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Subject:an awesome LED lantern Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:20:33 -0500 From:David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com I have been disappointed recently, as I could not find anything exciting going on with new LED lighting products. However, Coleman just released an awesome new LED lantern. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] OT: Underground but ExTerra
On Wired Science on PBS last night I watched an article on an abundant meteor field in Kansas. Fascinating. Thousands of pounds of metal-rich meteorites spread across the cornfields. But I'm quite puzzled by these recent (less than 10,000 yrs old) landings - many attributed by the same initial re-entry object - scattered all about, all found less than 10 feet from the surface - and no impact craters. Would a tiny 100 to 1000 lb meteorite loose all it's inertia in the atmosphere? I'm seeking input from individuals who might have knowledge about this, and geologically learned folks who can shed light on how a 1400 lb piece of metal can come from space and hide under flat land without a trace. Was there some glacier or flood event that bulldozed flat all this land? -WaV
[Texascavers] TCR 30
Below are some of the pics I took at the TCR this year. These are reduced quality pics to fit them all on my site. Each pic is 1.1 MB high res copy. Want all 61 MB? I don't mind sending them. Just tell me where to send them. FTP is preferable, but e-mail is OK too. Thanks for the good times. Mike Flannigan Some of the more interesting ones: http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8112.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8119.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8120.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8130.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8132.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8141.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8143.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8144.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8145.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8146.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8147.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8150.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8151.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8152.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8153.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8154.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8155.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8156.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8157.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8158.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8162.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8163.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8165.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8166.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8167.jpg All the rest: http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8111.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8113.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8114.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8115.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8116.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8117.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8118.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8121.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8122.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8123.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8124.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8125.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8126.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8127.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8128.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8129.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8131.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8133.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8134.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8135.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8136.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8137.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8138.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8139.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8140.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8142.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8148.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8149.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8159.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8160.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeflan/sdscn8161.jpg - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] tcr thanks/lost/found
found 1 green baseball cap (claim by telling me whats witten on the front) found 1 polar tech style ladies jacket (claim by giving me the color/description) lost 1 celtic style mens ring. All of the above was lost/found in the Bexar Grotto area. I'd like to thank everyone from the Greater Houston and Bexar Grotto's for the great meal on Friday evening. Thanks too goes to Tommie Joe for bringing the blue crabs for our cajun lunch on Saturday. The Saturday nite meal was great and well just really great ... good job ladies/gents!
[Texascavers] tcr thanks/lost/found
found 1 green baseball cap (claim by telling me whats witten on the front) found 1 polar tech style ladies jacket (claim by giving me the color/description) lost 1 celtic style mens ring. All of the above was lost/found in the Bexar Grotto area. I'd like to thank everyone from the Greater Houston and Bexar Grotto's for the great meal on Friday evening. Thanks too goes to Tommie Joe for bringing the blue crabs for our cajun lunch on Saturday. The Saturday nite meal was great and well just really great ... good job ladies/gents!
[Texascavers] Austin Cave Fest promotes safe caving :
Cave Fest promotes safe exploration 11:01 PM CDT on Saturday, October 27, 2007 At Karst Preserve in South Austin, lots of kids and parents put on helmets and grabbed a light to explore caving for themselves. More than 1,500 people are attended the 6th annual Austin Cave Festival. For just one day a year, Live Oak Cave and Get Down Cave are open to the public. The caves aren't very big, but event sponsors say they're a good way for kids to get the feel of the sport and to see how ground water enters Edwards Aquifer. Cavers have mapped out more than 300 caves in the Edwards Aquifer recharge zones. The subject of safely exploring those caves came to a head after three UT students were inside Airman's Cave in South Austin for close to 35 hours. Rescue crews were called in to locate them and bring them out. Those who've spent years exploring these caves say it's imperative to teach this young audience that preparation is key. Caving is a very, very relatively safe sport in austin, says Julie Jenkins. You need to have the proper equipment and it helps if you have the proper training. You have to have a helmet, you need lights, you need backup lights, spare batteries, and water if you plan to be in for a long time.” Organizers of this festival hope these adventures make quite an impression. _http://www.kvue.com/news/local/stories/102707kvuecavefest-mm.1b28dd99f.html_ (http://www.kvue.com/news/local/stories/102707kvuecavefest-mm.1b28dd99f.html) ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Texascavers] Austin Cave festival : Kids crawl through caves for fun :
AUSTIN CAVE FESTIVAL Kids crawl through cave for fun About 1,500 people joined conservation and cave groups to explore caves and learn about the environment. _Andrea Lorenz_ (mailto:alor...@statesman.com) AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Sunday, October 28, 2007 (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/28/jwj-Cave-Fest-01.html) Jack Lewright didn't want to wait any longer to make his way into Live Oak Cave on Saturday. When a call came from the front of the line for someone who wouldn't mind exploring alone, Jack, 8, stepped forward. Griffin Butler, 4, explores the entrance to Get Down Cave on Saturday with the help of Bill Russell, vice president of Texas Cave Management, at the sixth annual Austin Cave Festival at the Village of Western Oaks Karst Preserve. He's an adventurer, said Tami Lewright, Jack's mom. Jack was one of about 1,500 visitors to the sixth annual Austin Cave Festival in Southwest Austin. The Barton Springs/Edwards Aquifer Conservation District and the Texas Cave Management Association sponsored the event to teach people how to protect the sensitive area they live in. The caving part was a bonus that comes from the topography of Central Texas, ripe with limestone and holey rocks. The festival came two weeks after three University of Texas students had to be rescued from a local cave when they couldn't find their way out. None of Saturday's young explorers or their family members mentioned that incident, said Julie Jenkins, a cave expert with both organizations. The day was one of many opportunities Austin residents have during the year to learn about cave safety, Jenkins said. The Austin area has one of the largest populations of young cavers in the country, Jenkins said, thanks to programs at local high schools and the city. Although it's fun for adventurers like Jack, the real purpose of the event is to encourage care for the water that flows under the ground — and ultimately ends up in Barton Springs, Jenkins said. For that reason, residents in the Village of Western Oaks Karst Preserve area, where the cave festival was held, should take extra care to use only environmentally friendly pesticides and yard products, said Jennee Galland, an environmental educator for the conservation district. But for those waiting in line to crawl through the two cave entrances Saturday, thoughts were focused on other things: dirt, darkness and wearing a cool helmet with a light on the front. Chris Greene, 9, said that he knew it would be dark in the cave but that he wasn't scared. I'm good. I'm more worried about him, Chris said, pointing to his dad, Eric Davis. As for Jack, the cave fulfilled his expectations. You crawl around; you dig in the ground looking for bones, he said excitedly. No, he didn't find any bones, but he did walk away with a couple of cool rocks. And, organizers hope, a better understanding of the earth. _http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/28/1028caves.html _ (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/28/1028caves.html) ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Dr. David Goodstein, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology and author of the best seller: Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil estimates that it would take 10,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the energy created by oil but even then the world's uranium would be gone in one or two decades.
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Mike Quinn wrote: Dr. David Goodstein, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology and author of the best seller: Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil estimates that it would take 10,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the energy created by oil but even then the world's uranium would be gone in one or two decades. That's assuming we are using 10,000 fission nuclear power plants. Uranium is a non-renewable resource. The supply of uranium will follow a depletion curve similar to that of oil. Fusion nuclear (as opposed to fission) holds more promise as it uses heavy water/regular water/hydrogen which is more abundant, but if I understand it correctly, current fusion nuclear technology is only good for WMD's and not for power generation. There is international work underway to develop fusion nuclear tech for power generation. If I remember it correctly, a reactor is being built in France for this. Try googling it. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
When was the last nuclear power plant built? When will the next singular plant produce power? When will we have 10,000 nuclear power plants of *any* kind? Given that some say the world is already past peak oil, I personally don't see how we're going to make it to 10,000 nukes... see PO article in last Monday's The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,2196435,00.html Graphic Showing Oil Producing Countries Past Peak Oil... http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/10/25/oil-producing-countries-past-peak-oct-2007.png or: http://tinyurl.com/33ambo If we are past PO, then the likely ensuing hoarding will accentuate the problem... Mike Quinn, Austin -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:22 AM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics Mike Quinn wrote: Dr. David Goodstein, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology and author of the best seller: Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil estimates that it would take 10,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the energy created by oil but even then the world's uranium would be gone in one or two decades. That's assuming we are using 10,000 fission nuclear power plants. Uranium is a non-renewable resource. The supply of uranium will follow a depletion curve similar to that of oil. Fusion nuclear (as opposed to fission) holds more promise as it uses heavy water/regular water/hydrogen which is more abundant, but if I understand it correctly, current fusion nuclear technology is only good for WMD's and not for power generation. There is international work underway to develop fusion nuclear tech for power generation. If I remember it correctly, a reactor is being built in France for this. Try googling it. -- Lyndon Tiu
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
President Shrub thinks we will just switch to bio-fuels..that will surely save the world On 10/28/07 8:53 AM, Mike Quinn mike.qu...@tpwd.state.tx.us wrote: When was the last nuclear power plant built? When will the next singular plant produce power? When will we have 10,000 nuclear power plants of *any* kind? Given that some say the world is already past peak oil, I personally don't see how we're going to make it to 10,000 nukes... see PO article in last Monday's The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,2196435,00.html Graphic Showing Oil Producing Countries Past Peak Oil... http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/10/25/oil-producing-countries-past-peak-oc t-2007.png or: http://tinyurl.com/33ambo If we are past PO, then the likely ensuing hoarding will accentuate the problem... Mike Quinn, Austin -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:22 AM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics Mike Quinn wrote: Dr. David Goodstein, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology and author of the best seller: Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil estimates that it would take 10,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the energy created by oil but even then the world's uranium would be gone in one or two decades. That's assuming we are using 10,000 fission nuclear power plants. Uranium is a non-renewable resource. The supply of uranium will follow a depletion curve similar to that of oil. Fusion nuclear (as opposed to fission) holds more promise as it uses heavy water/regular water/hydrogen which is more abundant, but if I understand it correctly, current fusion nuclear technology is only good for WMD's and not for power generation. There is international work underway to develop fusion nuclear tech for power generation. If I remember it correctly, a reactor is being built in France for this. Try googling it. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
As long as we're using petroleum-based fertilizers to grow the bio portion of the fuels, coal or oil-fired power plants to generate the electricity needed to run the factories that turn the biomass into fuel, and trucking it to the gas stations in deisel-burning semis, I don't think we'll see any kind of net gain -- it's more a shuffling of the deck chairs. I've done a fair bit or reading on the nuclear (oops, nucular) industry in the last year, and if anyone would take the time to educate themselves about the waste generation, handling, and number of accidents and close-calls we've had it would surely disabuse them of the notion that fission is anything like a responsible way to generate power. We've got to work it from all angles -- reduction of consumption, solar, wind, hydrogen fuel cells -- all of it, and the sooner the better. CV On Oct 28, 2007, at 10:15 AM, John P. Brooks wrote: President Shrub thinks we will just switch to bio-fuels..that will surely save the world On 10/28/07 8:53 AM, Mike Quinn mike.qu...@tpwd.state.tx.us wrote: When was the last nuclear power plant built? When will the next singular plant produce power? When will we have 10,000 nuclear power plants of *any* kind? Given that some say the world is already past peak oil, I personally don't see how we're going to make it to 10,000 nukes... see PO article in last Monday's The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,2196435,00.html Graphic Showing Oil Producing Countries Past Peak Oil... http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/10/25/oil-producing-countries- past-peak-oc t-2007.png or: http://tinyurl.com/33ambo If we are past PO, then the likely ensuing hoarding will accentuate the problem... Mike Quinn, Austin - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Chris Vreeland wrote: We've got to work it from all angles -- reduction of consumption, Lifestyle change ? -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
If you mean corn, the energy input/output ration is quite small (if positive at all)... Plus, using a high percentage of our arable land to use for filling our SUV's vs. feeding people is perhaps not the best way forward. As for help from the gov, FEMA, Uncle Sam, etc., I suggest developing self reliant contingency plans. Conservation will make more energy available quicker than any other route, but we can't all move closer to our jobs and shifting to more economical vehicles will take a decade or more. An increase in telecomuting would be great. Mike -Original Message- From: John P. Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 10:15 AM To: Mike Quinn; Lyndon Tiu; Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics President Shrub thinks we will just switch to bio-fuels..that will surely save the world On 10/28/07 8:53 AM, Mike Quinn mike.qu...@tpwd.state.tx.us wrote: When was the last nuclear power plant built? When will the next singular plant produce power? When will we have 10,000 nuclear power plants of *any* kind? Given that some say the world is already past peak oil, I personally don't see how we're going to make it to 10,000 nukes... see PO article in last Monday's The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,2196435,00.html Graphic Showing Oil Producing Countries Past Peak Oil... http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/10/25/oil-producing-countries-past-peak-oc t-2007.png or: http://tinyurl.com/33ambo If we are past PO, then the likely ensuing hoarding will accentuate the problem... Mike Quinn, Austin -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:22 AM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics Mike Quinn wrote: Dr. David Goodstein, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology and author of the best seller: Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil estimates that it would take 10,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the energy created by oil but even then the world's uranium would be gone in one or two decades. That's assuming we are using 10,000 fission nuclear power plants. Uranium is a non-renewable resource. The supply of uranium will follow a depletion curve similar to that of oil. Fusion nuclear (as opposed to fission) holds more promise as it uses heavy water/regular water/hydrogen which is more abundant, but if I understand it correctly, current fusion nuclear technology is only good for WMD's and not for power generation. There is international work underway to develop fusion nuclear tech for power generation. If I remember it correctly, a reactor is being built in France for this. Try googling it. -- Lyndon Tiu
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Mike Quinn wrote: Conservation will make more energy available quicker than any other route, but we can't all move closer to our jobs and shifting to more economical vehicles will take a decade or more. An increase in telecomuting would be great. The ever increasing price of energy will force people to conserve. The only reason we are not conserving is because energy is cheap and still widely available. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
The world's enery availability is rapidly peaking... Mexico, our number two supplier, is running out: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# or: http://tinyurl.com/2a9e59 -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 5:10 PM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics ... energy is cheap and still widely available. -- Lyndon Tiu
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Mike Quinn wrote: The world's enery availability is rapidly peaking... Mexico, our number two supplier, is running out: I agree completely that we will run out and that we should conserve NOW before it is too late. BUT, just wanted to share an opinion: It only counts when people FEEL it. People will only start conserving if they actually see the problem in their neighborhood. Reading about it on the news about a place most people cannot even find on a map does not count. As long as the neighborhood station has plenty of 87 octane available 24/7. Nothing is going to happen. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# or: http://tinyurl.com/2a9e59 -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 5:10 PM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics ... energy is cheap and still widely available. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics
Honestly, The terrible truth of it all isit really doesn't matter at this point. We are beyone the point of no return At current population expansion rates even if you cut your energy and waste consumption in half for the whole world right now today.in twenty years we would be right back at this same point. At our rate of response to an emergency it would take twenty years for us to even maybe get to a point to cut energy consumptions in half so we are already fourty years behind the power curve..better to just do your part and enjoy the ride... You smart people better get cracking on that zero point energy machiene or that quantum combobulator that is going to save the day and make you rich so I can keep watching TV and eating Night Hawks. I'm saving up my strength to have six kids. I don't think there are enough shitters and eaters out there just yet and I want to do my part! What every patriot should be doing! I am going to raise them to smoke cigaretts, drive Humvees, and build 4000 sq ft homes to raise their 6 kids who will all themselves be big Wal-Mart Shoppers and just buy things they know will break but won't care because they can just buy another one for two dollars. Because Cheap products made by poor third world people forced to drink the runoff of the factory they work in and breathe the smoke from the stacks of the plants cranking out cheap useless shit that I need to make my every day life just that much better. So I will continue to buy my plastic bowl majic disposable toilet brushes, my paper plates, plastic bags, coca-cola's in the aluminum cans that I don't recycle because I don't want ants in my bin, the Mc Donnalds big macs that come in a cardboard box tucked in a paper bag for sefety, the bottled water in the plastic containers that contaminate the once filtered water with poly ethyl Hexamine or whatever it is that keeps building up in my boobs. At this rate I hope I build up enough chemicals in my body that I last 5000 years for someone to dig up my mummy and wonder at my superhuman constitution to have lived so long and have been so full of crap... - Original Message - From: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca To: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics Mike Quinn wrote: The world's enery availability is rapidly peaking... Mexico, our number two supplier, is running out: I agree completely that we will run out and that we should conserve NOW before it is too late. BUT, just wanted to share an opinion: It only counts when people FEEL it. People will only start conserving if they actually see the problem in their neighborhood. Reading about it on the news about a place most people cannot even find on a map does not count. As long as the neighborhood station has plenty of 87 octane available 24/7. Nothing is going to happen. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109sid=aQP1F89dAOs8refer=home# or: http://tinyurl.com/2a9e59 -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 5:10 PM To: Texas Cavers Cc: Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - recycling economics ... energy is cheap and still widely available. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] energy
cavwesSince somebody mentioned fusion power, I'm moved to reply. I worked at the Fusion Research Center at UT from 1981 to 1995. I had been there some six months before I figured out that magnetic fusion energy (tokamaks) was not the way to go. That is the sort of device that may or may not be built in France. Back in the years around 1990, many tens of millions of dollars were spent designing ITER, the International Toroidal Experimental Reactor, I think that stood for. That was meant to be the first fusion reactor that would actually produce net energy on a sort of continuous basis (maybe for a whole twenty minutes at a time). The estimated cost was around $10 billion. It was to be a joint American/ European/Japanese/Russian project. However, the US government shortly came to its senses and started cutting its fusion research budget, and the Russians went broke. Currently, there are hopes to build a device informally known as ITER light, mostly with European and Japanese money. Years were spent in fighting over the site, which is now set to be in France. However, neither the money nor a detailed engineering design actually exist yet. I expect it will come in at $10 billion, considering inflation. It is hoped that scientific advances since the original design will make the smaller device as likely to accomplish its goal. AND these designs are just for a proof-of-principle device. _If_ it is built and _if_ it works, it will prove that it is possible to obtain energy that way. But it will not at all be a prototype power plant, just a potential source of heat. Can you imagine a power company ordering an incredibly high-tech $10 billion radioactive heat source? You could probably reproduce the first fission pile for $20 million today, and look what power plants based on that principle actually cost. The notion that a fusion power plant is safer may not be very convincing once one knows it would have to have an inventory of goodness knows how many megacuries of ratioactive tritium for fuel. (The only fusion reaction even remotely feasible today is between deuterium and tritium). And components of the machine amounting to thousands of tons will become radioactive due to neutron bombardment and have to be periodically replaced. Once the safety and environmental types sink their teeth into it, I doubt it would be a hit with the sort of politicians who haven't got the balls to bury radioative waste in that mountain. (Ten thousand years, hah! Invest $1 now at 2% after inflation and you'd have more than enough money to buy out Nevada in ten thousand years if that became necessary.) New coal-burning power plants are coming on-line worldwide at a rate of one a week. While some of them are replacing older plants, this suggests that building nuclear plants at the rate of two or more a month or finding equivalents in other energy sources would be barely enough to keep up with _increases_ in demand, much less lead to any reduction in CO2 emissions. To stop global warming, we'd have to reduce the current consumption of fossil fuel to something well below half of current levels. (Increases of CO2 in the atmosphere were noticable by 1950.) Five percent wind energy or 20 percent better fuel economy won't cut it, although feeble half-measures like that or the much-touted Kyoto deal might delay things by a few years. So what? Pending some sort of breakthrough, fission power is the only thing today that is competitive with burning coal, gas, and oil. At some point after fifty years or so, oil and gas might really become too scarce and expensive to burn. Unfortunately (from the point of view of warming), there's plenty of coal for 200 to 500 years Meanwhile, if it gives you warm fuzzy feelings, drive a hybrid or use flourescent lights. Warm fuzzy feelings is about all it will accomplish. (Well, maybe x degrees of warming would be put off from 2100 to 2125 if everybody else did likewise.) For an even warmer feeling, don't use your AC next summer. I'm not at all green in the usual sense, but my house doesn't even _have_ AC. --Bill Mixon - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
