Re: [Texascavers] The Proposed Texas Speleological Foundation Headquarters

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Foundation headquarters/
museum/storage. 
Can anyone or group take David's treasures? until a permanent home can be 
found. It would be a shame for the storage facility to dispose of the stuff 
should David not be able to continue keeping it. I can't as my storage 
buildings are full from recently cleaning
out two Houston PS storage rooms for my 94 year old aunt thereby saving her the 
$650. monthly rental fee which she couldn't afford. Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 11:01 AM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> In the event, such a structure were to ever be built, I am currently able to 
> offer the following. 30 plus items for donation to be used there.
> 
> 1)  1 bookshelf
> 2 ) 1 respectable speleo-library
> 3 )  old office furniture and equipment for a small office
> 4 )  old furniture ( coffee table, end table, loveseat-bed )
> 5 ) 1 metal storage rack
> 6 ) 3 plastic tote boxes.
> 7 ) a tool box with some tools
> 8 ) a vinyl LP and cassette and CD collection of 70's music
> 9 ) a white-gas lantern
> 10 ) plastic folding table and plastic folding chair
> 11 ) a nice work-bench
> 12 ) 100 plastic drinking glasses for a fancy party ( used once in 2001 )
> 13 ) various decorative antiques such as a 1950-ish brass backpacker stove 
> 14 ) a decorative old picture of the UT campus from 1949.
> 15 ) some vertical gear to put on display ( inchworm system used by Carl 
> Philip Fromen in Precipicio 1991 )
> 16 ) items owned by caver Jim McLane
> 17 ) a small dormitory refrigerator
> 18 ) a small cot
> 19 ) large stainless steel serving plates ( XXL turkey-size )
> 20 ) a bottle of wine
> 21 ) a small kid-size bed, an oak futon, 
> 22 ) a rope owned by Oren Tranbarger
> 23 ) a rare un-used GHG patch circa 1992
> 24 ) a rare unused TSA patch from 1987
> 25 ) a heavily worn TSA shirt from 1987
> 26 ) various caving shirts to display including a never opened Bob 
> soda-straw shirt from 1988.
> 27 ) lots of miscellaneous garage-sale-type cr*p.
> 28 ) a decent National Geographic collection ( every issue from to 1955 to 
> 2003, and a few antique issues )
> 29 ) various books and magazines
> 30 ) Coleman camp stove.
> 31 ) tarp
> 32 ) large metal storage box
> 
> David Locklear
> 
> 
> P.S.  This is all assuming I live that long and can continue to pay the 
> monthly rent on my storage unit.
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Langtry caving

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, David. June and I enjoyed visiting with you at TCR. Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> I went to Langtry Leads twice. And to a sink out there somewhere. Did some 
> caving on the Alamo Village Ranch for Happy Shahan looking for guano to mine. 
> All a long time ago.
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> David,
>> Good information. What are the names of the other two caves? I have made the 
>> drop into the main cave in the Hwy. 90 cut at Langtry some years ago with 
>> Preston McMichael and other friends.
>> Fritz Holt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:53 AM, David via Texascavers 
>> > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I mentioned last month that I had discovered that the landowner of the 3 
>> > big caves out at the big ranch north of the town of Langtry had passed 
>> > away.
>> >
>> > I made a diligent effort to contact his large family and offer condolences.
>> >
>> > They are now aware of my intentions.
>> >
>> > I can only hope that someday one of them will contact me expressing 
>> > interest in assistance with visiting the caves or reach out on their own 
>> > to another caver.
>> >
>> > I have guided several trips into each of the 3 caves, but the last time 
>> > was at about 19 years ago.  I am not in good enough health to do it any 
>> > time soon.
>> >
>> > These caves are warmer and dustier and drier than caves in the Hill 
>> > Country.Emerald Sink probably has a huge bat population.
>> >
>> > Proper gear is just a caving quality headlamp ( $ 30 to $ 70 from Frys ), 
>> > jeans and t-shirt, plenty of water or Gatorade and some lightweight cotton 
>> > gloves and any kind of helmet.
>> >
>> > Thin kneepads for those who can not tolerate occasional crawling.
>> >
>> > Maybe something new will happen in 2018 in the Langtry Caves.
>> >
>> > But as of October 19, I do not know if they want cavers to contact them, 
>> > or who in their family wants to be the cave contact, or even if any of 
>> > them still own the ranch.
>> >
>> > I do not plan to ever reach out to them again.   The ball is in their 
>> > court.
>> >
>> > If my effort fails, then another caver should try, or attempt a different 
>> > approach method, but at least wait a few months.
>> >
>> > David Locklear
>> > ___
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>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Langtry caving

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David,
Good information. What are the names of the other two caves? I have made the 
drop into the main cave in the Hwy. 90 cut at Langtry some years ago with 
Preston McMichael and other friends.
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:53 AM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I mentioned last month that I had discovered that the landowner of the 3 big 
> caves out at the big ranch north of the town of Langtry had passed away.
> 
> I made a diligent effort to contact his large family and offer condolences.
> 
> They are now aware of my intentions.
> 
> I can only hope that someday one of them will contact me expressing interest 
> in assistance with visiting the caves or reach out on their own to another 
> caver.
> 
> I have guided several trips into each of the 3 caves, but the last time was 
> at about 19 years ago.  I am not in good enough health to do it any time soon.
> 
> These caves are warmer and dustier and drier than caves in the Hill Country.  
>   Emerald Sink probably has a huge bat population.
> 
> Proper gear is just a caving quality headlamp ( $ 30 to $ 70 from Frys ), 
> jeans and t-shirt, plenty of water or Gatorade and some lightweight cotton 
> gloves and any kind of helmet.
> 
> Thin kneepads for those who can not tolerate occasional crawling.
> 
> Maybe something new will happen in 2018 in the Langtry Caves.  
> 
> But as of October 19, I do not know if they want cavers to contact them, or 
> who in their family wants to be the cave contact, or even if any of them 
> still own the ranch.
> 
> I do not plan to ever reach out to them again.   The ball is in their court.
> 
> If my effort fails, then another caver should try, or attempt a different 
> approach method, but at least wait a few months.
> 
> David Locklear
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[Texascavers] Flood relief options

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

This is my second invitation to coastal Texas Cavers to offer a free safe and 
dry place to stay if you can drive to my home in Dripping Springs, 25 miles 
west of Austin on highway 290. We have three extra bedrooms with baths for any 
of our group in need. Just call me or June and let us know you are coming.
Fritz Holt
713-818-2496
fritz...@gmail.com
June - 832-260-2526

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[Texascavers] Evacuation option

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I should have sent this earlier but hopefully better late than never. Any caver 
families in the Corpus, Victoria coastal areas who need a safe place to stay 
during this storm are welcome here at my home near Dripping Springs 25 miles 
west of Austin. I am high and dry with three extra bedrooms each with private 
bath. You would also get to see my little Hill Country paradise, if I do say so 
my self. Just call (any time of night) and let me know you are coming. 
Temporary lodging only, no squatters. 
Fritz Holt
713-818-2496

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Re: [Texascavers] sort of evolution related

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Try Neanderthal. Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:29 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I saw a young man in Houston this week in a store and he barely looked like 
> your stereotypical homo sapien.  He was 6'3" and in tip-top physical 
> condition.  His unique feature was the largest brow-bridge that I had ever 
> seen.   I had never seen anybody that more resembled my vision of our ancient 
> Cro-Magnon ancestors.  I imagine the ladies would be very attracted to this 
> particular guy.
> 
> So out of curiosity, I Googled around for about 3 hours looking at 
> anthropology photos and anything that might resemble him.   I found 
> absolutely nothing.   He did not look like those wrestlers and boxers from 
> Russia as his forehead did not seem to be angular, but instead vertical like 
> Elvis.
> 
> 
> I did learn from this research that the ancient people of Japan were totally 
> different than they havebeen for the past 3,000 years, and that the original 
> inhabitants of Japan are now allegedly extinct.   
> 
> So I wonder if this young man that I saw was an anamoly, or part of his DNA 
> contains something lost from the ancient ones ??
> 
> 
> 
> The painters that travelled to remote places 300 years ago did an amazing 
> thing by recording all that diversity, as did the early photographers of the 
> late 1800's.
> 
> Googling all that and seeing the antique images was interesting.
> 
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] cave tours in the news

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

As many of you (Texas Cavers) know, we have a Fountain Cave near Vance, north 
of Camp Wood. You have to climb partially up a small mountain to the entrance. 
Not easy to find due to the small entrance and vegetation. A nice easy walking 
cave. My daughters (Mandy & Jenny) along with their friend, Janice, and I were 
in it in the early 70's. I hope to visit it again before I croak. 
Kermit (aka Fritz)

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> On Aug 2, 2017, at 4:05 PM, C Tiderman via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] National Park Pass fee to increase

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I had not heard the term Orange
Menace. I assume it is referring to Donald J. Trump. Correct? Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 7:34 AM, PRESTON FORSYTHE via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> The best $10  I have ever spent! The National Park Senior Pass. We have 
> really used it over the years.
> 
> Preston Forsythe in KY 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:15 PM, Louise Power via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> I agree. With all that Park Service has to pay for and for all they do for 
> our parks and the fact that the Orange Menace's Congress seems to be cutting 
> back the budgets for all the land management agencies, we shouldn't resent 
> paying more considering what we get for our money. I've worked for both NPS 
> and BLM and believe me they're not easy jobs.
> 
> Louise
> 
> 
> From: Texascavers  on behalf of Bill 
> Steele via Texascavers 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:54 AM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Cc: Bill Steele
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Park Pass fee to increase
>  
> I got one in Zion National Park last year. It cost me $10 for a lifetime 
> pass. It includes everyone in the vehicle with me. I told the NPS guy it was 
> the best deal in the country and an incentive to live a long time.
> 
> Bill Steele 
> cwilliamste...@gmail.com
> 
> > On Jul 19, 2017, at 1:37 AM, David via Texascavers 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I am sure you all have heard that if you qualify for a Senior Pass with 
> > NPS, and
> > do not have one that you should order one ASAP as the fee will increase in 
> > six weeks.
> > 
> > I do not have the link in front of me.
> > ___
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> 
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> © 2005-2016 Texascavers.com. Comments to webmas...@texascavers.com. 
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> Association.
> 
> 
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> texascavers - The Mail Archive
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> Messages by Thread [Texascavers] Photo request: Blaine and Rustler Formations 
> Andrea Croskrey via Texascavers. Re: [Texascavers] Photo request: Blaine and 
> Rustler ...
> 
> 
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] From bad to worse

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Also, repair and keep is man think. Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
> 
> David,
> What you should have done is stayed home and taken care of business as your 
> beer budget would have allowed. But then, David knows best. 
> Such hindsight I have. Fritz
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:34 PM, David via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I spent the entire day with a roadside mobile-mechanic futily attempting to 
>> get back on the road.
>> 
>> I abandoned the Sequoia at the Chevron station, and called my 
>> estranged-brother-in-law ( my half-sister's husband ) to come rescue me.  
>> That was a low-point in my life.
>> 
>> A wrecker service is supposed to take the Sequoia to a shop in the town of 
>> Mansfield, where it may need expensive repairs.
>> 
>> I am at my half-sister's house now, in Mansfield quite bummed out and 
>> concerned about my immediate future.
>> 
>> Meanwhile, drama is going on down in Houston that I should have been there 
>> to deal with.
>> 
>> At this point, I am past the limit of exhaustion to deal with it all.
>> 
>> I should have gone and sat in front of a waterfall like my 6th Sense told me 
>> to do.
>> 
>> I must find a ride to Houston.   I may have to take a bus.
>> 
>> David Locklear
>> <20170621_194323_HDR.jpg>
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Re: [Texascavers] From bad to worse

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David,
What you should have done is stayed home and taken care of business as your 
beer budget would have allowed. But then, David knows best. 
Such hindsight I have. Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:34 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I spent the entire day with a roadside mobile-mechanic futily attempting to 
> get back on the road.
> 
> I abandoned the Sequoia at the Chevron station, and called my 
> estranged-brother-in-law ( my half-sister's husband ) to come rescue me.  
> That was a low-point in my life.
> 
> A wrecker service is supposed to take the Sequoia to a shop in the town of 
> Mansfield, where it may need expensive repairs.
> 
> I am at my half-sister's house now, in Mansfield quite bummed out and 
> concerned about my immediate future.
> 
> Meanwhile, drama is going on down in Houston that I should have been there to 
> deal with.
> 
> At this point, I am past the limit of exhaustion to deal with it all.
> 
> I should have gone and sat in front of a waterfall like my 6th Sense told me 
> to do.
> 
> I must find a ride to Houston.   I may have to take a bus.
> 
> David Locklear
> <20170621_194323_HDR.jpg>
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[Texascavers] Fwd: The Lone Ranger...the great Glen Campbell

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Two of my heroes and
Tonto. What a stiring and nostalgic composition. Fritz
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: june T levy 
> Date: June 15, 2017 at 3:44:30 PM CDT
> To: Fritz Holt 
> Subject: Fwd: The Lone Ranger...the great Glen Campbell
> 
> 
>>
>> The Lone Ranger rides again!  
>>  
>> For most of the 1960s, Glen Campbell's brilliant guitar playing was known 
>> only by a select few top recording studios and artists. Long before Glen 
>> became known nationally as an outstanding vocalist, actor  and TV 
>> personality, he was one of the most in-demand recording studio  guitarists 
>> in the world. He could have earned a 7 figure annual income as a high-end, 
>> requested-for studio guitarist for years on end if that  had been all he 
>> cared do.  
>>  
>> How good was he? The Lone Ranger! You will Enjoy  
>>  
>> Take a look at this video, one you may have never seen before.   
>>  
>> Hi Yo Silver, Away! – It doesn’t get much better than this. "The  William 
>> Tell Overture" by Giaochino Rossini. Many of us grew up watching the Lone 
>> Ranger and Tonto on black and white television. Years later, many of us 
>> watched the Glen Campbell show on TV as well.   
>>  
>> This video is a clip of a younger Glen Campbell playing the William Tell 
>> Overture (with symphony orchestra) and dedicating it to Clayton  Moore, who 
>> played the Lone Ranger and Jay Silverheels, who played Tonto.   You may 
>> never have seen Glen play like this before. This is world-class guitar 
>> playing and Campbell makes it look easy. The sounds of  Glen Campbell on 
>> guitar and the symphony orchestra playing Rossini's  "William Tell Overture" 
>> will take you back to those golden days of  yesteryear, when the strains of 
>> the Rossini's masterpiece coming over  the radio meant the Lone Ranger show 
>> was about to begin.   
>>  
>> https://www.youtube.com/embed/GUBhE00h9U0?feature=player_detailpage   
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> - 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] mountain-climbing related

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David,
There were once two Cypress trees in the same area. Is one still there?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2017, at 12:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> In the news today, a mountain-climber is reporting that an earthquake
> has removed the Hillary Step from Mount Everest. A photo he posted shows
> about a 20 foot piece of rock missing, and the area covered in snow, making 
> it just a
> hop over some very slippery boulders.
> 
> I guess one could assume that the piece of rock tumbled down the mountain.
> 
> I do not see any reports of when the climbers think that that might have 
> happened.
> 
> Has anyone ever noticed a major cave feature destroyed by an earthquake ?
> 
> Here is Houston, we had a major natural landmark destroyed by Hurricane Ike.
> It was a big cypress tree in the middle of White Oak Bayou visible while 
> driving west
> on Interstate 10 just north of downtown.
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Cypress_Tree%2C_White_Oak_Bayou%2C_Houston%2C_Texas_1002101548_%285066288746%29.jpg
> 
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] [TCR Food]

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

As previously stated (today), I vote for A. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Currently TCR doesn't have a head cook, or menu. There have been complaints, 
> rumors and talk about this subject. It seems there are three options: (a) 
> fend for yourselves, (b) caterer, (c) volunteers come forward to cook.
> Each has its benefit and drawbacks. I need to get a feel for options.
> 
> Discuss:
> 
> 
> --Tex Caver
> 
> 
> 
> --Don
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Re: [Texascavers] 39th Annual Texas Cavers Reunion

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Herr Charles and others, Achtung!
Paradise Canyon is a great venue, especially for an old fart and his precious 
June who both appreciate the convenience of a private cabin. However I do miss 
the after dark camaraderie of sitting around your and others camp fires before 
hitting the cot. My favorite venue of a few years ago was Fort Clark and 
Springs at Brackettville. A little far for a few in East Texas but better for 
West Texas and New Mexico. Great facilities, fabulous water and several of our 
favorite wild? caves in the general area. Gets my vote.
Are we locked in to Paradise Canyon? We put too much emphasis on meal 
preparation for the whole group. I'm with Charles, I would be happy with 
everyone bringing and preparing their own meals. The event fee should remain 
the same if no meals are served and the fee used to defer other expenses. An 
exception would be the grottos offering breakfast for a contribution, always 
welcome. Bored yet?
Herr Fritz (Holt)
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why are we stuck at Paradise Canyon? The OTR used to be fun when it moved 
> around. Now it is in a rut. Paradise Canyon is OK but to me it is incredibly 
> boring after the tenth time. I recall the first one where I and a few other 
> cooked at Luckenbach. Then a lot of places all over Central Texas. Now it is 
> stuck, dead in the water.
> 
> OK I was chief cook for 20 years and has a myriad of volunteer  people  who 
> were involved in cooking. We had a rule for our volunteer cooks and there 
> were about 35  or 40 of them. The rule was cook what you want but cook, but 
> enough. Enough was a nebulous figure. We had tons of corn on the cob from the 
> valley. Fish from Galveston, A roast pig, brisket, beef clod, chicken, 
> turkey, hot links from Fredericksburg, bean salad, fruit salad, salad salad, 
> black beans, refried beans, tortillas, pie, cake, cookies, a million 
> brownies, chicken, Hatch chilis, gazpacho. all manner of stuff, we once had 
> quail, and the people gobbled it up. 
> 
> All prepared by THE CAVER COOKS for the fun of cooking it. That tradition has 
> died it would seem. Maybe caver don't cook anymore? Not sure why but the old 
> cooks never got any new cooks to volunteer to take the reins. 
> 
> Maybe there was a great loss in cooking ability. I hate to say this but I 
> haven't eaten the meal at OTR is four years. I am not sure why because I pay 
> for it, but the last one just didn't meet my expectations. I apologize to 
> those who worked so hard and long but what is, is and I am a dyed in the wool 
> food Nazi. We didn't need a food trailer to cook in we just built fires and 
> got after it. 
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> Paradise Canyon
>> October 12-15, 2017
>> 
>> 
>> --Texas Caver
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
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[Texascavers] Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Sent from my iPhone

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> 
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> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why We Don't Share Cave Locations :
> From: Fritz Holt 
> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14B100)
> In-Reply-To: <15a0cfc2e23-4822-8...@webprd-a107.mail.aol.com>
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 11:18:06 -0600
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> References: <15a0cfc2e23-4822-8...@webprd-a107.mail.aol.com>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Jerry,
> A great and comprehensive article. Well written and informative with great 
> pictures. 
> Thank you from lovers of caves, bats and all things related. Proud to call 
> you a Texas friend. 
> BAT LIVES MATTER!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:35 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Chuck Sutherland
>> 
>> A Tennessee naturalist's 

Re: [Texascavers] Why We Don't Share Cave Locations :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Jerry,
A great and comprehensive article. Well written and informative with great 
pictures. 
Thank you from lovers of caves, bats and all things related. Proud to call you 
a Texas friend. 
BAT LIVES MATTER!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:35 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chuck Sutherland
> 
> A Tennessee naturalist's photography, maps, and projects.
> 2016/11/20
> 
> Why We Don't Share Cave Locations
> 
> People often ask myself and other cavers to give them cave locations and cave 
> information. I always reply, "I don't give out cave locations". Not knowing 
> the history of reasons why I do this, I am often asked why. This is my 
> response.
> 
> We love to hang out with, and take new people caving. Some see us as stingy 
> stodgy keepers of secrets (and some cavers are), but I see myself as a gate 
> keeper. I am not all powerful, and I am fallible, but my knowledge extends 
> far beyond what an inexperienced caver (or spelunker as they often call 
> themselves) does.
> 
> That is important because the conservation ethic we practice on the surface 
> doesn't always work underground. Also the way we understand our environment 
> to keep ourselves safe doesn't work the same way underground. These two key 
> issues are the main reason why I won't give out cave locations.
> 
> First, let's address the conservation issue. If you consider the combined 
> historical, archaeological, paleontological, biological, and mineralogical 
> resources of a cave to be finite (which they are), then they can be used up.
> 
> We consume cave resources by destroying them. And history has shown us over 
> and over again that is what happens when the general public is aware of a 
> cave. Pictured below is a civil war ladder that was burned in a campfire 
> inside a cave no doubt by fools burning their own cultural history. That 
> ladder had been there from at least Civil War era, perhaps longer.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chucksutherland/6138611367
> 
> Geologic resources are vandalized. Folks spray paint on walls and formations. 
> They break formations accidentally and on purpose and remove them from the 
> cave. These resources do not renew on a timescale that humans can appreciate. 
> In other words, they will not return in our lifetime.
> 
> Bats and other critters in caves can be adversely affected by human presence. 
> A recent cave I visited had an estimated 500 dead endangered gray bats laying 
> on the ground because someone went through the cave during the wrong time of 
> year. I think that if the person had been properly educated those bats lives 
> would have been saved, and bats lives are worth saving.
> 
> I have seen caves that have been dug up where people were pot hunting 
> (looking for Native American artifacts). I have seen prehistoric Native 
> American art covered with modern day spray paint. And in case you're 
> wondering why the Native American's art is more important than modern spray 
> paint (yes, this is a stupid question that I am frequently asked) then please 
> bear with me while I use the rules of capitalism to assess the values of each.
> 
> Spraypaint - common, easy to find and reproduce. The value of knowing who 
> Johnny was with at this undisclosed period of time is virtually worthless 
> because it is in such prolific quantity. It's less than worthless, because 
> it's potentially obstructing other information of more value. See below.
> 
> Native American art - rare, difficult to find, impossible to reproduce. The 
> limited nature of this particular resource makes Native American art very 
> valuable by supply and demand. No one is selling this stuff, but for the 
> people who study it, it is highly valuable.
> 
> Below is a photo of modern vandalism adjacent to bear claw marks. Bears 
> haven't lived in caves in Tennessee for some time. I can't speculate as to 
> the age of these claw marks, but they may be Pleistocene. I wonder if the 
> vandal would have felt it so important to leave their mark in the mud if they 
> knew what it was next to?
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chucksutherland/30937515890
> 
> None of this even touches on the safety issues of caving. Briefly, we cave 
> with helmets, three sources of light, changes of batteries, gloves, boots, 
> elbow pads and knee pads, and a backpack with food, water, and a simple first 
> aid kit. That's the basic stuff. Developing an understanding of what clothing 
> to wear (hint: avoid cotton), and fine tuning your gear can be a long and 
> expensive process unless you have a more experienced group of people who are 
> willing to share their knowledge.
> 
> We like to teach people the conservation ethic that we learned. And we like 
> folks to be safe underground. This is no different than teaching your kid how 
> to drive a car before giving them keys. You want your kid to be safe, and you 
> don't want your kid to drive into someone's home and destroy it.
> 

[Texascavers] Fwd: Thought you might like this article

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Jacquetta Breedlove 
> Date: January 29, 2017 at 8:14:55 AM CST
> To: Fritz Holt 
> Subject: Thought you might like this article
> 
> 
> Fritz:
> 
> I thought you might like this article.
> 
> http://www.wideopencountry.com/texas-archaeologist-discovers-the-meaning-behind-the-pecos-river-pictographs/?utm_source=Facebook_medium=Partner_term=TxHC_campaign=TxHC
> 
> Jackie
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Memorial Page

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

June and I visited with old friend Jimmy Walker yesterday  for four hours at 
his home in Waelder, Texas. We had the additional pleasure of visiting with his 
son, Alan and wife Trish, delightful people.  At 89, Jimmy is doing well and is 
as sharp and personable as ever. Jimmy and I formed a close relationship in the 
mid 1950's which has endured to the present. Of several caving trips our most 
memorable was the excitement and distinction of being the second group to cross 
the "Ledge" in Mayfield Cave (Caverns of Sonora) and explore perhaps the most 
beautiful cave in America. This was February of 1956 when I was 21. We also 
have some great pictures of our 1959 trip to KICKAPOO Cave on the former ranch 
of Tommy Sargent, a neighbor of Happy Shahan, builder of Alamo Village. As some 
of you may know, Jimmy is a writer, adventurer, caver, photographer and 
probably the most talented artist of his time. I am in the process of acquiring 
some of his works.  Jimmy and I individually caved (spelunked) with Preston 
McMichael during his regretfully short life. My friends and I were greatly 
entertained on various camp outs by Preston playing classical guitar which he 
did quite well. Jimmy and I have numerous pictures of Preston which were taken 
on various outings. Some are at The Devil's Sinkhole, Goodenough Spring, a 
rancher's bunkhouse where we were caving and at the shelter caves on the Rio 
Grande with the historic Indian rock art. These were great times with two 
unique individuals. I should gather all of my caving pictures to donate to the 
TSS archives while I am still able. 
Fritz F. Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496
At Triple Creek Ranch, Dripping Springs, Texas

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 27, 2017, at 2:35 AM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was just skimming thru the Texas Caver Memorial Page to
> see if there was anything to say in memory of our lost friends and
> colleagues.
> 
> According to the data in the table:
> 
> It has been 50 years now since Preston McMichael passed away.
> 
> I believe it has now been 11 years since Randy Waters passed away,
> and 16 for Oren Tranbarger, and 10 year for Marcia Littlestar, and
> 17 for Pat Copeland.I believe Pat would have been 74 now.
> 
> William Blakemore would have celebrated his 94th birthday, and
> Walter Friesen, his 73rd, and Rod Goke, 70, and Clark Santos 74.
> 
> I can only guess Charles Haskett would have been 60, as his birth year
> does not appear to be listed correctly.
> 
> It appears that it has been 8 years since Harry Walker of Houston
> passed away. 
> 
> I know you all could look at this list and find similar things to say about
> cavers you once met or even knew.
> 
> Can someone please add Jim McLane to the list ?
> 
> David Locklear
> dlocklea...@gmail.com
> ( I hope you won't add me to the list for 47 more years, as I would
> like to celebrate my 100th Birthday.However, at the rate I am going
> that don't look feasible.I think I need to set a lofty goal of reaching
> 60 and play it by ear after that.  I nearly had 2 car wrecks yesterday, 
> falling
> asleep at the wheel.  )
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[Texascavers] Dalena's art

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David, 
Did your daughter create this beautiful work of art and how was it done? How 
old is she now? If she did this free hand with no aids she is a genius and has 
a great future as an artist. It is unbelievably professional. While in the form 
of a character sketch, ( could not find the spelling of characteratour?) it 
captures you as well as any photograph. Let us know the facts of how it was 
done. Oh, and Happy New Year to all. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] Reminder - Bexar Grotto Christmas Party tomorrow (December 17 at 6 pm) See info below.

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Tails may not be used but tales certainly will be told. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:39 PM, Scott C via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is the most awesome Christmas party invite ever! Lol :) Love it! I was 
> cracking up while reading the part about the roof and the cat o nine tails! 
> Y'all must really bring it at your grotto party!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Folks,
>> The Bexar Grotto Holiday Party will be held on Saturday, December 17th from 
>> 6 pm until whenever at Geary and Sue Schindel's house located at 11310 
>> Whisper Dawn in San Antonio. Phone is 210.479.2151. This is the same 
>> location as last year. The grotto will be providing a ham and other fixings 
>> and attendees are asked to bring an appropriate dish or dishes. There is a 
>> grill available in the backyard but we also encourage folks to bring dishes 
>> that have already been prepared as much of the kitchen space is taken up by 
>> blenders and glass containers and there is little room to prepare a dish. 
>> There is a microwave, oven, and stove top for heating up dishes as necessary.
>> The grotto will not be providing adult beverages but please feel free to 
>> bring your own beverage of choice. Please make sure that you drink 
>> responsibly.
>> There will also be a White Elephant gift exchange with certain restrictions. 
>> Gifts in the $5 to $20 range are appropriate and creative homemade gifts are 
>> always appreciated - especially if they are funny or related to caving 
>> (maybe another "Cat O 9" will make an appearance).  The house rules are that 
>> If you receive a gift,  you must take it home. If no one takes your gift, 
>> you have to take that home also. The only exception is beer, wine, or liquor 
>> - you can leave that. We would also encourage you to take home your dishes 
>> you bring and check out the selection as you may have one left over from 
>> last year. Please no pets as gifts - they tend to be left behind and usually 
>> end up in my neighbor's yard for some reason.
>> We're all for a separate exchange for kids if a parent wants to organize 
>> that. My kids are great so no, you can't change your kids for my kids no 
>> matter how much my kids beg.
>> Couple of ground rules:
>> * Event attire is Christmas Casual. That means you're welcome to 
>> dress up or not but please, make sure you change out of caving cloths and 
>> leave muddy boots in the car. If you need a shower before the party, we have 
>> a hose in the backyard (and lotion - you can either use the lotion or "gets 
>> the hose.").
>> * If you've had too much to drink, we will find someone to drive you 
>> home or find a place for you at or under the house.
>> * Kids are welcome but they need to be well behaved. No running in 
>> and out of the house or playing around the fire in the backyard. Our house 
>> is not kid proof and we don't want anyone hurt.
>> * Please be careful where you park and don't block any of the 
>> neighbor's drive ways. However, street parking is fair game so don't let 
>> anyone tell you otherwise. No open containers in the street and please don't 
>> throw any bottles in people's front or backyards. Note there is some 
>> construction in the neighborhood so be careful where you walk.
>> * The hot tub is hot and open for business (102 F). If you want to 
>> get in, plan accordingly (Bring a towel if you have one.). Please no diving 
>> or jumping and no snorkels and masks and there is no lifeguard on duty. Tub 
>> at your own risk.
>> * Please leave your guns at home.
>> * No keg stands, that resulted in some pretty messy accidents at the 
>> last party and we don't need that in the house (however, I now have a 
>> plunger in every bathroom - live and learn).
>> * If you get a Cat O Nine Tails in the gift exchange, we would 
>> recommend you put it away as they can leave some nasty long term marks for 
>> the inexperienced (as Rob K how we know that).
>> * No pets, including service animals. We now have three pets that 
>> don't tolerate other animals very well - no matter how well trained they are.
>> * Stay off the roof and out of the trees - no good can come of it 
>> (geezzz. I hate having to keep posting this every year).
>> Hopefully, the ground rules aren't too restrictive.
>> Geary and Sue Schindel
>> 11310 Whisper Dawn
>> San Antonio, Texas 78230
>> 210.479.2151 phone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Test message

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

OK, David, tell us who he was/
Is. On second thought, I'd rather hear more about the honeymoon. Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 2, 2016, at 2:35 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is another long-winded reminiscing story irrelevant to current events.
> 
> In October of 1986, the Texas cavers were holding their big annual gathering 
> on the Guadalupe River near New Braunfels at a place called "The Lazy L 
> Campground."
> 
>  http://www.lazylandl.com/
> 
> This was to be my second time at the event.   I had been caving steadily for 
> 2 years.I was anxious to meet new cavers and learn new things.
> 
> I was engaged at the time to a very beautiful, but very grouchy brunette born 
> in New York, but raised in Houston.   She was around 17 years old, I think.   
>  She attended this with me and camped out in the mosquitos under the stars 
> Friday night.   Saturday night we pretended we were on our honeymoon at the 
> Prince Solms Inn.Anyways, her only other caving experience was off-trail 
> in Inner Space led by Mr. James Jasek.   He took a nice photo of us near the 
> "Squid Room," but a year later, in our final meeting she poured gas on it and 
> all other of our shared mementos in a bonfire on my front porch and nearly 
> set herself on fire.Fortunately, Mr. Jasek gave us two copies.
> 
> But all that is the side story to be dwelled upon in a future post.
> 
> At that big caving event, I met a young hippie-looking guy with a very 
> pleasant demeanor wearing a really awesome caving shirt.It said something 
> to the effect of "Member of the Nita Nanta Connection."I asked him about 
> the shirt, and he told me the whole story and the significance of the 
> discovery and his role in the exploration.I was very excited to have met 
> a real world-class cave explorer.I had aspirations to be like him 
> someday, and so he was a big role model in my life.But the deck of cards 
> I drew, just didn't match that destiny.I still admire that guy today, and 
> always look forward to seeing him at major caving events.
> 
> David Locklear
> NSS # 27639
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Place

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

A term I haven't heard. 
Fritz Foogie Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2016, at 5:55 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why can't we go back to Flat Creek? They have ten cabins and a hotel on site 
> where the foogies can stay. I like the canyon but I have to always leave 
> before dark because I can't drive at night. If they had a bedroom maybe I 
> would hang arou d longer and get drunk or something like that. 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Carl, A nice critique of the state of The Texas Caver. I don't have an opinion 
but do enjoy reading it when it is published. Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> The Texas Caver
>  
> So here we go again with the Texas Caver.  Every few years we are seeking a 
> new editor or at least discussing options that might disburse the rowdy 
> crowds that are assembling at the gates with torches and pitchforks. 
>  
> What is gong on here?  Why is it that every few years there is a Texas Caver 
> crisis and a less than graceful transition to a new editor?
>  
> There is lots of talk about the Texas Caver.  From the outset, there seems to 
> have been some confusion regarding the difference between good journalism and 
> nice graphic arts. Unfortunately, neither has been regularly in evidence.  
> Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall anyone praising the Caver for high 
> quality journalism or the reliability of production.  The editor has a few 
> passionate defenders who are willing to do battle with any and all 
> detractors, but the  current editorial has now acknowledged what has been 
> evident for several years.
>  
> The coming transition is an opportunity to learn from previous mistakes. 
> Texas cavers appreciate good grammar, proper spelling, and nice graphics but, 
> failing that, are willing to forgive a lot if the Caver shows signs of having 
> been carefully crafted with attention to detail:  nice photographs properly 
> captioned and credited; articles well laid out with all elements present; no 
> space used as a personal blog; and perhaps most importantly, timely 
> production.
>  
> I was handed a copy of the most recent Texas Caver at the TSA meeting Sunday 
> morning, October 16.  When I looked at the cover, my first thought was "huh?" 
>   I rotated the page through 360 degrees as I searched in vain for a person 
> or anything for scale.  Despairing, I then looked inside for the caption 
> information.  I didn't find much.  The picture credits Peter Bosted and 
> apparently depicts a scene from the Big Island, Hawaii.  I infer that it 
> pictures something within a cave and is not merely a hand sample from a flea 
> market or mineral show.  As usual, there is no proper caption information.  A 
> closer look at the cover reveals "haul" to be misspelled and a Government 
> Canyon report proffered as being from "2105."  Those errors are egregious 
> and, sadly, are but a preview of others to come.
>  
> In the present issue (the word "current" can't properly be applied since it 
> is about six months late),  pages 4 and 5 are mostly filled with 
> pictures—none with caption information—and the top photo on page 4 suffers 
> from a lack of pixel information by at least one order of magnitude.  Where 
> is the graphic arts expertise we are often reminded of?  If a photo is 
> essential and a small file is the  best available, then please reduce the 
> printed size.  At the top of page 5 there is a full half page devoted to two 
> guys stirring a large pot of food. What about the "hero" shot at the top of 
> page 6?  Neither photo is captioned or credited.  It's a poor use of space 
> that TSA's  hard copy subscribers are paying for.  In fact, there is a lot of 
> "white space" in every issue.  I am reminded of some prior issues with long 
> personal "blogs" that should never have appeared in the Caver.  Furthermore, 
> we are subjected to the new English word, "givin."Page 8  treats us to 
> another low resolution photo with no credit or caption.  Page 9 credits the 
> photographer  but tells us nothing else.  More of the same on pages 10-11.  
> Sadly, this trend continues throughout the remainder of the issue with a few 
> other photos offering no information whatsoever.  This has been a problem for 
> many years.  The Editor seems unable to grasp the notion that a picture 
> without caption information looses a major portion of its potential value.  
> On pages 13-17 there is a change from two columns to three; then a change 
> back to two columns for pages 18-22.  Page 23 reverts to three columns once 
> again.  Oh, well.  I wonder where the back cover photo was made.  Is it a 
> continuation of the "Forged in Fire" photos from the previous two pages?  Who 
> authored the few words of text that accompany the photos?  "I had the good 
> fortune. . . .  We spent a day. . . ."
>  
> It's discouraging to think that this is the best that Texas cavers can manage,
>  
> The Texas Caver has a long tradition of service to the Texas caving 
> community.  It is the face that The Texas Speleological Association and Texas 
> cavers show to the world.  Prior to the advent of the Internet and all that 
> it entails, both good and bad, the Caver was the primary means of 
> communication within the Texas caving community.  Its appearance on a timely 
> schedule was critically important.  When the Caver 

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Jerry, 
Having met several times over the last eleven years (became active again in the 
caving (spelunking) community in 2005), I feel I know you as a friend. I enjoy 
The Texas Caver  when I can find one but will leave the current "discussion" to 
you and others. I will say I like your responses to the allegations. Keep up 
the intelligent conversation. I will probably regret sending this, (not really).
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> RK,
> 
> As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a 
> bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your 
> Texas Cavers.
> 
> As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of 
> late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes 
> to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't 
> know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the 
> editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from 
> several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat 
> their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic 
> encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it.
> 
> Jerry Atkinson (old coon).
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> To: texascavers 
> Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
> 
> Jerry,  
> 
> You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic 
> traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon.
> 
> You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas 
> Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. 
> 
> RK
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS
> 
> _
> From: via Texascavers 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
> To: 
> Cc:  
> 
> 
> I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or 
> climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate.
> 
> Jerry.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when 
> you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit 
> before you embarrass yourself any more.
> 
> RK
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via 
> Texascavers" wrote:
> 
> What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
> edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone 
> to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true 
> apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit 
> where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a 
> defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve 
> accolades, not the editor.
> 
> Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
> officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
> send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of 
> a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. 
> 
> And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
> edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
> editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
> involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
> things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr 
> work. 
> 
> You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just 
> putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs 
> required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others 
> before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some 
> years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups 
> together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of 
> the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has 
> been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask 
> me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the 
> inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in 
> informing the membership of the situation, and the type of 

Re: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Agreed. As is said, Blair was bigger than life. Wish I had known him better. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 10:11 AM, via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I have that book as well, Fritz, plus his Texas Caves book.
>  
> A very entertaining read and I imagine sitting on the porch out there every 
> time I read it.
>  
> Beautiful photographs in his Caves book.
>  
> My kids and I stopped by the ghost town to see him a few years back. We just 
> missed him, as he had been airlifted to SA or Houston for a stroke or cardiac 
> issue he had just experienced.
>  
> His residence/cats/and the ghost town was just a unique as he was.
>  
> A terrible loss.
>  
>  
> Mark Alman
> texascav...@yahoo.com
>  
>  
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Fritz Holt via Texascavers
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:58 AM
> To: Jenny Holt
> Cc: Jacquetta Breedlove; June Levy; Mandy Holt; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman
>  
> I found Blair Pittman's 50 page  booklet titled "Tales From The Terlingua 
> Porch". He wrote inside, "To Fritz - If It Ain't The Truth - It Outta Be - 
> April 9, 08  -Enjoy-
> Viva Terlingua !!!
> Blair Pittman
> (Ver Batim) Your nostalgic dad. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 11, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Fritz Holt <fritz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Not sure but I think we met him before his accident. I will look for his 
> signed book which is probably dated and will let you know. Dad
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Jenny Holt <jhol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dad,
> I also sent this to you, in case you hadn't seen it. We met him at a rock 
> shop just out of Study Butte heading towards BBNP - was that before his 
> motorcycle accident or afterwards?  I remember he was driven up by a driver 
> who also had tourists who got out to visit the rock shop & he sat out on the 
> porch with us & gabbed. He was great & quite interesting. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Fritz Holt <fritz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We met him at a shop in Terlingua or nearby and he autographed his book that 
> we purchased, From The Back Porch, probably on our group trip in 2008? He was 
> a writer, photographer and well known and liked by cavers and lovers of the 
> Big Bend area. Fritz
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Date: October 10, 2016 at 9:41:47 PM CDT
> To: Cave NM <swrcav...@googlegroups.com>, Cave Texas 
> <Texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman
> Reply-To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Another unique individual is gone -  Exploring and photographing caves was 
> only only one of the remarkable and exceptional  aspects of Blair Pittman.
>  
> DirtDoc
>  
> From: "Terlingua Moon" <terlinguam...@gmail.com>
> 10/10/2016
> 
> Our Community Mourns One of our Own
>  
>  Blair Pittman passed away this morning. Blair was a famous and infamous 
> photographer from Houston paper in the old days, came out to Big Bend 
> regularly and ultimately settled out here. He was married to Jeanne 
> Northsworthy in the 80s and was around Lajitas and involved with us all 
> during the Mischer days and with the local old-timers..like Ross Maxwell. 
>  
> He and Jean Hardy-Pittman fell in love and have been married for quite a 
> while now and we have enjoyed them both often in the Ghostown. She has been 
> his angel and he knew it. He shot (photographed) our Big Bend so wonderfully 
> and he loved it deeply. May he RIP….and we will miss him a lot. I loved him.
> Memorial service to be decided later.
>  
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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[Texascavers] Fwd: The Wall Street Journal: Invisible Bugs In Kansas City Are Jumping Out of Trees to Bite People

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

As the Kansas City area is in cave country and NSS members live in or visit 
this area, I thought this was an appropriate topic. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: kittymr...@aol.com
> Date: October 11, 2016 at 9:42:49 PM CDT
> To: Vicki Thweatt , LYNN HAYES 
> , Dawana Downey , Jackie 
> Kinghorn , Fritz Holt , Jackie 
> Aldredge , Sylvia Ashbaugh , 
> GrAcie Terrill 
> Subject: The Wall Street Journal: Invisible Bugs In Kansas City Are Jumping 
> Out of Trees to Bite People
> 
> 
> Invisible Bugs In Kansas City Are Jumping Out of Trees to Bite People
> The Wall Street Journal
> 
> Millions of tiny eight-legged bugs, small enough to pass through window 
> screens, are falling from trees in Kansas City—and biting people. Read the 
> full story
> 
> 
> Shared from Apple News
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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[Texascavers] Fwd: Blair Pittman

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Fritz Holt 
> Date: October 12, 2016 at 9:58:27 AM CDT
> To: Jenny Holt 
> Cc: Mandy Holt , Jacquetta Breedlove 
> , June Levy , 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman
> 
> I found Blair Pittman's 50 page  booklet titled "Tales From The Terlingua 
> Porch". He wrote inside, "To Fritz - If It Ain't The Truth - It Outta Be - 
> April 9, 08  -Enjoy-
> Viva Terlingua !!!
> Blair Pittman
> (Ver Batim) Your nostalgic dad. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure but I think we met him before his accident. I will look for his 
>> signed book which is probably dated and will let you know. Dad
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Jenny Holt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dad,
>>> I also sent this to you, in case you hadn't seen it. We met him at a rock 
>>> shop just out of Study Butte heading towards BBNP - was that before his 
>>> motorcycle accident or afterwards?  I remember he was driven up by a driver 
>>> who also had tourists who got out to visit the rock shop & he sat out on 
>>> the porch with us & gabbed. He was great & quite interesting. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
>>> 
 We met him at a shop in Terlingua or nearby and he autographed his book 
 that we purchased, From The Back Porch, probably on our group trip in 
 2008? He was a writer, photographer and well known and liked by cavers and 
 lovers of the Big Bend area. Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
> From: via Texascavers 
> Date: October 10, 2016 at 9:41:47 PM CDT
> To: Cave NM , Cave Texas 
> 
> Subject: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman
> Reply-To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Another unique individual is gone -  Exploring and photographing caves 
> was only only one of the remarkable and exceptional  aspects of Blair 
> Pittman.
> 
> DirtDoc
> 
> From: "Terlingua Moon" 
> 10/10/2016
> 
> Our Community Mourns One of our Own
> 
>  Blair Pittman passed away this morning. Blair was a famous and infamous 
> photographer from Houston paper in the old days, came out to Big Bend 
> regularly and ultimately settled out here. He was married to Jeanne 
> Northsworthy in the 80s and was around Lajitas and involved with us all 
> during the Mischer days and with the local old-timers..like Ross Maxwell. 
> 
> He and Jean Hardy-Pittman fell in love and have been married for quite a 
> while now and we have enjoyed them both often in the Ghostown. She has 
> been his angel and he knew it. He shot (photographed) our Big Bend so 
> wonderfully and he loved it deeply. May he RIP….and we will miss him a 
> lot. I loved him.
> Memorial service to be decided later.
> 
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I found Blair Pittman's 50 page  booklet titled "Tales From The Terlingua 
Porch". He wrote inside, "To Fritz - If It Ain't The Truth - It Outta Be - 
April 9, 08  -Enjoy-
Viva Terlingua !!!
Blair Pittman
(Ver Batim) Your nostalgic dad. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
> 
> Not sure but I think we met him before his accident. I will look for his 
> signed book which is probably dated and will let you know. Dad
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Jenny Holt  wrote:
>> 
>> Dad,
>> I also sent this to you, in case you hadn't seen it. We met him at a rock 
>> shop just out of Study Butte heading towards BBNP - was that before his 
>> motorcycle accident or afterwards?  I remember he was driven up by a driver 
>> who also had tourists who got out to visit the rock shop & he sat out on the 
>> porch with us & gabbed. He was great & quite interesting. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
>> 
>>> We met him at a shop in Terlingua or nearby and he autographed his book 
>>> that we purchased, From The Back Porch, probably on our group trip in 2008? 
>>> He was a writer, photographer and well known and liked by cavers and lovers 
>>> of the Big Bend area. Fritz
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
 From: via Texascavers 
 Date: October 10, 2016 at 9:41:47 PM CDT
 To: Cave NM , Cave Texas 
 
 Subject: [Texascavers] Blair Pittman
 Reply-To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Another unique individual is gone -  Exploring and photographing caves was 
 only only one of the remarkable and exceptional  aspects of Blair Pittman.
 
 DirtDoc
 
 From: "Terlingua Moon" 
 10/10/2016
 
 Our Community Mourns One of our Own
 
  Blair Pittman passed away this morning. Blair was a famous and infamous 
 photographer from Houston paper in the old days, came out to Big Bend 
 regularly and ultimately settled out here. He was married to Jeanne 
 Northsworthy in the 80s and was around Lajitas and involved with us all 
 during the Mischer days and with the local old-timers..like Ross Maxwell. 
 
 He and Jean Hardy-Pittman fell in love and have been married for quite a 
 while now and we have enjoyed them both often in the Ghostown. She has 
 been his angel and he knew it. He shot (photographed) our Big Bend so 
 wonderfully and he loved it deeply. May he RIP….and we will miss him a 
 lot. I loved him.
 Memorial service to be decided later.
 ___
 Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
 Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Reminiscing

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Nice report on past caving experiences as only David can relate them. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 6:51 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> a personal story by David Locklear,   dlocklea...@gmail.com
> 
> Bare with me here please.   It is a beautiful day, and I am stuck in 
> horrendous traffic driving with the Sun in my face, with my mind wandering to 
> a more pleasant memory.
> 
> A quarter of a century ago, I was having preliminary discussions with my 
> caving colleagues in Houston about planning a real grotto caving trip - 
> something that had rarely been successfully pulled off.
> 
> I suggested a trip to Las Grutas del Precipicio and convinced them that we 
> could do it.
> 
> In those days, nearly every caver in Houston did not have a computer in the 
> house nor easy access to one ( except maybe at work ).   Email / Internet had 
> not yet reached Houston caving.Communication was done via landline phones 
> ( we just called them "phones." )   None of had answering machines nor used 
> beepers ( pagers ).
> 
> I am writing this from a very fuzzy memory, but there is a trip report in 
> SpeleoSpace.
> 
> I think the trip occurred over Thanksgiving 1991 ( maybe 1990 ).
> 
> Charles Fromen offered to drive us to Bustamante Canyon in his old 1977 ( ? ) 
> supercab Dodge Powerwagon.   His young son, Carl Phillip Fromen, was with us. 
>   He about 12 years old.
> 
> Also Kenny and Carol McGee were there ( probably newlyweds ?? ).
> 
> I think I was semi-homeless at the time, and caver Bill Rupley had offered me 
> an inexpensive room in his fancy condo.   I was most likely working as a 
> contract draftsman using Microstation CAD for a temp agency.   I had not yet 
> made many modifications to the SpeleoStationwagon.
> 
> In those days, the only bridge across the Rio Grande ( to Bustamante ) was in 
> Laredo and there was no gas near Bustamante.
> 
> I think our trip was uneventful.
> 
> Carl Phillip Fromen used an Inchworm system for the ascent of the 2 pits.  ( 
> I still have his Inchworm rig that his dad built )   We probably used PMI 
> rope, but maybe Bluewater ?   Charles probably jumared out on a Texas system, 
> and Kenny and Carol probably used Ropewalkers without any pulleys.   I most 
> likely had a system I made up combining a Mitchell System with a Gibbs at the 
> foot instead of a lower Jumar.We did not know anybody that liked the 
> Frog, and most cavers I knew ridiculed it.   Charles was in excellent 
> physical shape and his son showed a promising future as an award winning 
> rope-climber.
> 
> We probably just took a quick dip in the creek after the visit to the cave, 
> as the canyon was still destroyed by Hurricane Gilbert ( from 1988.)
> 
> We also might have swam at the spring in Lampazos ( a place that was a whole 
> lot better back then ).
> 
> I can't remember if we slept in the cave.   I can't remember if we ate at the 
> Hotel Ancira, but we most likely did.
> 
> I just know we did not have aerial-video making drones, or cell phones or LED 
> headlamps or digital cameras or Google Earth, and the truck most likely had a 
> carburetor.And we survived !!
> 
> I think we did spend an hour looking for caves on the North ( west ) ridge of 
> the canyon, before heading home.
> 
> If you see the participants at TCR, try to see if they remember the trip.
> 
> I attempted this trip 6 times, and only twice did I make it to the big 
> formations at the back room.   All the memories are blended and fuzzy with 
> forgotten names.
> 
> David Locklear
> NSS # 27639
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Where you live, your occupation, caving experience, close caving friends, any 
other facts that might be important to you. I had only seen your name recently. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> So Fritz what would you like to know about me?
> Karen
> 
> 
> From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
> 
> I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where 
> she is.
> Fritz Holt
> fritz...@gmail.com
> An old 50's and 60's spelunker. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with 
>> newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned 
>> were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
>> 
>> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, 
>> does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 
>> 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to 
>> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply 
>> remove the tooth from the inventory log.
>> 
>> Later,
>> Karen Perry
>> 
>> 
>> From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
>> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
>> 
>> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
>> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon 
>> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The 
>> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
>> I have heard they are under water.
>> 
>> __ _
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>> texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Charlie Loving
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where 
she is.
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
An old 50's and 60's spelunker. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper 
> articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris 
> Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
> 
> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does 
> anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 
> that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to 
> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply 
> remove the tooth from the inventory log.
> 
> Later,
> Karen Perry
> 
> 
> From: Charles Loving via Texascavers 
> To: Cavers Texas  
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
> 
> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon 
> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The 
> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
> I have heard they are under water.
> 
> __ _
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ 
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] we don't need no stinkin' badgers

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I had a somewhat interesting short story concerning my now deceased mother and 
we don't need no stinkin' badges but guess it isn't appropriate here according 
to Logan and he's right. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Charley, Don, Jacqui, and Nancy,
> 
> Charles wrote:  Saw a badger here a few weeks ago. Big critter and mean 
> looking, not to be messed with.
> 
> I suggest we take this discussion off-list, because we've strayed from the 
> original message that Jerry posted about porcupines in caves.  Anyone else is 
> welcome to contribute their non-cave related critter stories to us off-list, 
> unless there are unanticipated howls of protest from the other list members.
> 
> Logan McNatt
> lmcn...@austin.rr.com
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Re: [Texascavers] Research finds porcupines are prominent in many south-central Texas caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Preston. If you get to the Austin area we are just 25 miles west in 
Dripping Springs. June and I would be happy to have you and yours come for a 
visit. We have lots of room. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 12:09 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> Great story Fritz. 
> 
> One of the most scenic places we have been in TX is  the entrance to Santa 
> Elena Canyon. That is right up there with the Guads, El Cap and Guadalupe 
> Peak. These are great places to visit in the fall.
> 
> Preston at Browder, KY
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> My daughters and I made a raft trip from Lajitas thru Santa Elena Canyon in 
> April, 1979. Not guided, we just rented a raft. We stayed at the fairly new 
> Cavalry Post motel in Lajitas and while there experienced a somewhat severe 
> hail storm which covered the ground. We spent the first night at the mouth of 
> Santa Elena just past the rockslide on the Mexican side on a sandy beach 
> area. Being swimmers, the girls would tie the raft rope to an ankle an swim 
> pulling the raft in the stretches of deeper still water. The next day we 
> navigated the canyon with a lengthy stop to explore Fern Canyon on the 
> Mexican side. A somewhat wet climb to go into a couple of nice shelter caves 
> on the left side of the canyon wall. Further towards the exit picnic area we 
> saw high on the Mexican side Smugglers Cave, (Outlaw Cave or Cow Cave as we 
> called it). On a previous canoe trip years earlier thru all of the canyons 
> with buddy, Bill Breedlove, we climbed up to the cave and took pictures. My 
> daughters and I did not make the climb. Back to a small part of the previous 
> post below. On the way home north from Big Bend there had been a substantial 
> rain storm and tarantulas were crossing the blacktop road in large numbers. 
> Being ground dwellers the unaccustomed rain must have flushed them out. We 
> captured a couple of them in small raisin boxes. This raft trip with Mandy 
> and Jenny was one of the high points of all my outdoor adventures. 
> Fritz F. Holt (nostalgia king)
> fritz...@gmail.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:43 PM, Mark Minton via Texascavers 
> > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  I've seen porcupines in Texas caves as far back as the '80s. I also
> > remember a couple of times that there were unusually large numbers of
> > dead porcupines on the highways in central and west Texas. It was like
> > they were involved in mass migrations and got caught in the crossfire.
> > (I've similarly seen large numbers of migrating tarantulas, with lots
> > smashed on the roads in Texas.)
> > 
> >  Interestingly, we also found a couple of porcupine carcasses very near
> > the Last Bash entrance to J2 in Oaxaca, Mexico. That particular entrance
> > is _way_ out in the boonies, so whatever the porcupines were doing
> > there, it was unlikely to be related to human activity. Maybe they just
> > like caves. :-)
> > 
> > Mark Minton
> > mmin...@caver.net
> > 
> >> On Thu, August 25, 2016 9:15 pm, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers wrote:
> >> And I can say they have been common in Government Canyon caves for
> >> years. However, just in the last couple of years have I seen increased
> >> amounts of road-killed porcupines around Spring Branch.
> >> 
> >> Marvin Miller
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf
> >> Of Jerryatkin via Texascavers
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:01 PM
> >> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Research finds porcupines are prominent in
> >> many south-central Texas caves
> >> 
> >> They're quite common (hence the Porcupine Grotto) in the western Edwards
> >> Plateau caves.
> >> 
> >> Jerry Atkinson.
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> 
> >>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 6:54 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers
> >>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> A couple live in Deep.
> >>> 
> >>> --Don
> >>> 
> >>>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 7:51 PM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers
> >>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.theeag

Re: [Texascavers] Frolicking in Austin

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David, I just now read your late Saturday night post on your quick trip to 
Austin. Had I read it earlier you could have spent the middle of the night here 
at The Triple Creek Ranch at Dripping Springs with June and me.  Call next time 
as we never go to sleep before midnight
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2016, at 11:05 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is David Locklear, dlocklea...@gmail.com
> 
> I am leaving Sugarland, Texas at 11 p.m. tonight ( now, Saturday, the 27th ), 
> and driving west along I-10.
> 
> I may get a really cheap motel near Austin around 3 a.m.
> 
> I plan to frolick most of the day Sunday in or around Travis County.   I need 
> to leave Austin by 7 p.m. to return to Houston for work.  (  I actually have 
> work next week. )
> 
> I do not have any caving gear or camping gear with me.   I am just doing one 
> last road-trip in my cushy 4x4 Sequoia before it gets repo'ed.[ or I 
> could just use the road-trip $ I plan to spend instead to pay the car payment 
> next week, but that would require acting responsibly ]
> 
> If anybody wants to split the cost of a 2-bed motel near Austin, please text 
> me tonight at
> 
> 281-995-8487
> 
> I might just get as far as Elgin, if I do not get any takers.
> 
> If I turn up missing though, look for my body in Nuevo Laredo.
> 
> David
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Research finds porcupines are prominent in many south-central Texas caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

My daughters and I made a raft trip from Lajitas thru Santa Elena Canyon in 
April, 1979. Not guided, we just rented a raft. We stayed at the fairly new 
Cavalry Post motel in Lajitas and while there experienced a somewhat severe 
hail storm which covered the ground. We spent the first night at the mouth of 
Santa Elena just past the rockslide on the Mexican side on a sandy beach area. 
Being swimmers, the girls would tie the raft rope to an ankle an swim pulling 
the raft in the stretches of deeper still water. The next day we navigated the 
canyon with a lengthy stop to explore Fern Canyon on the Mexican side. A 
somewhat wet climb to go into a couple of nice shelter caves on the left side 
of the canyon wall. Further towards the exit picnic area we saw high on the 
Mexican side Smugglers Cave, (Outlaw Cave or Cow Cave as we called it). On a 
previous canoe trip years earlier thru all of the canyons with buddy, Bill 
Breedlove, we climbed up to the cave and took pictures. My daughters and I did 
not make the climb. Back to a small part of the previous post below. On the way 
home north from Big Bend there had been a substantial rain storm and tarantulas 
were crossing the blacktop road in large numbers. Being ground dwellers the 
unaccustomed rain must have flushed them out. We captured a couple of them in 
small raisin boxes. This raft trip with Mandy and Jenny was one of the high 
points of all my outdoor adventures. 
Fritz F. Holt (nostalgia king)
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:43 PM, Mark Minton via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
>  I've seen porcupines in Texas caves as far back as the '80s. I also
> remember a couple of times that there were unusually large numbers of
> dead porcupines on the highways in central and west Texas. It was like
> they were involved in mass migrations and got caught in the crossfire.
> (I've similarly seen large numbers of migrating tarantulas, with lots
> smashed on the roads in Texas.)
> 
>  Interestingly, we also found a couple of porcupine carcasses very near
> the Last Bash entrance to J2 in Oaxaca, Mexico. That particular entrance
> is _way_ out in the boonies, so whatever the porcupines were doing
> there, it was unlikely to be related to human activity. Maybe they just
> like caves. :-)
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
>> On Thu, August 25, 2016 9:15 pm, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers wrote:
>> And I can say they have been common in Government Canyon caves for
>> years. However, just in the last couple of years have I seen increased
>> amounts of road-killed porcupines around Spring Branch.
>> 
>> Marvin Miller
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf
>> Of Jerryatkin via Texascavers
>> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:01 PM
>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Research finds porcupines are prominent in
>> many south-central Texas caves
>> 
>> They're quite common (hence the Porcupine Grotto) in the western Edwards
>> Plateau caves.
>> 
>> Jerry Atkinson.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 6:54 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A couple live in Deep.
>>> 
>>> --Don
>>> 
 On Aug 25, 2016, at 7:51 PM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers
  wrote:
 
 http://www.theeagle.com/landandlivestockpost/agrilifetoday/research-f
 inds-porcupines-are-prominent-in-many-south-central-texas/article_7cf
 be577-b3dd-581d-9d44-e2b136b331aa.html
 
 Jerry Atkinson.
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Yates Photos

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Great pictures, Carl. Thanks for posting. I would like to have a CD of the 
Charlie and His Canon 2011 video if one is available. I was surprised to see 
that he was a resident of Dripping Springs, where I live. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
PS, Cavers are welcome to visit June and me at our little Hill Country paradise 
just north of Dripping. FH

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have two photos of Charlie Yates that are special to me and that I’ll share 
> with you.
>  
> Here is Charlie at his playful best in 1977, probably at the TCR:
>  
> 
>  
> Here’s another that may illustrate a facet of Charlie that you never knew 
> about:
>  
> 
>  
> This is a 1991 photo of Charlie in his silversmithing shop.  He was quite 
> talented
> but other interests crowded out this activity.  He made my daughter a concho 
> belt
> for her high school graduation at about this time
>  
> We are diminished.
>  
> ===Carl Kunath
> carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
> 
> 
>   
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] update on Charlie Yates

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I thoroughly enjoyed this great video on Charlie Yates and the battle of San 
Jacinto. Watching it on my I-phone was very disruptive due to the start and 
stop of the catch up process. Can this be purchased on a CD? I would very much 
like to purchase one or more. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 12:02 AM, Brian Riordan via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> That was very cool.  Thank you for sharing that Logan.
> 
> -Brian - old A.S.S.
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Ron Fieseler called this morning.  No dates yet for memorial(s). There may 
>> be two--one for his statewide compadres of Texian reenactors, Republic of 
>> Texas history buffs, and black powder folks--and another one for cavers. A 
>> new Facebook group was established recently by Paula Good called Southwest 
>> Texas State Friends, and has some old photos of Charlie and other cavers in 
>> the 1970s.
>> 
>> For those of you who never had the pleasure of knowing him, here is a link 
>> to an entertaining 2011 video by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department called 
>> Charlie and His Cannon. You will see why he will be missed by everyone who 
>> knew him.
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjfI_Hz5sCk
>> 
>> Logan McNatt
>> lmcn...@austin.rr.com
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Riordan
> 979-218-8009 (Mobile)
> riordan.br...@gmail.com
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Re: [Texascavers] SWT Grotto related

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Not at all boring, David. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2016, at 12:41 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> This post is not related to Charlie.   It is just a boring long-winded 
> personal story.   So please hit the Delete Button now, if you haven't already.
> 
> 
> In 1989, I met 2 guys who alleged that they were cavers. ( I met them at a 
> Houston Grotto meeting.   I think they joined. )   They claimed to have been 
> introduced to caving in college in San Marcos.I can only guess that they 
> were caving there in the late 70's or early 80's.One was named Bill Jones 
> and he would now be about 62-63.He lived north of Galveston and flew as a 
> Air Force Reserve Navigator on F-14s.He did not appear to me to be really 
> interested in caves when I met him.   He seemed to be the conservative type.  
> The other guy was his younger brother David Jones.David was a hard-core 
> backpacker and pot-head, so I got the impression that his brother Bill was 
> just tagging along.They were as different as night and day.
> 
> I took them to the 3 caves out at Langtry in 1989.I never heard a peep 
> from Bill ever again.
> 
> David and I became semi-friends and he was the person responsible for me 
> building a car that I called "The SpeleoStationwagon," which was my pride and 
> joy in the era that I actually went in caves.  
> 
> David mentored me by teaching me the entire culture of Mexican bordertowns at 
> a time, that I was very disgruntled from breaking up with my fiance.
> 
> He and I did some off-trail caving at Grutas de Bustamante, and Precipicio 
> and Carrizal around 1991 to 1992.
> 
> He thought about killing me in the Guads, but fortunately realized the error 
> was 100% his and then he felt pretty stupid.
> 
> He has owned a welding business in Terlingua since 1998, and that was the 
> last time that I spoke with him.
> 
> [ Sidenote:  Around 1991, in the Guads, we were rolling down the highway at 
> 80 mph in his custom truck.   I had just changed his flat tire, and mounted 
> the flat tire back on a rack welded to the front speleo-bumper.The tire 
> fell off and he lost control of the truck, but managed to regain control 
> before the truck almost rolled-over.He got out of car and I chased me 
> around the vehicle with a crow bar saying that when he catches me that he is 
> going to kill me, and I believed him.But when he gets to the front of the 
> car, the entire speleo-bumper is gone.He looks down the road and the tire 
> is still firmly bolted to the entire speleo-bumper.I was so relieved and 
> wanted to laugh at him, but he was still holding the crow bar. ]
> 
> Anyways, we were bummed out as we had had a permit for Madonna Cave and spent 
> 2 days in vain searching for it and gave up and did lots of ridgewalking ( 
> semi-lost ) and somehow eventually ended up high above overlooking the west 
> rim of Slaughter Canyon not far from Lake Cave.It was a long walk back to 
> 3-Mile Hill.
> 
> David Locklear
> 
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] sort-of cave related - not really

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David, 
In reference to your last paragraph, when are you jumping?
Fritz F. Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2016, at 11:22 AM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> About 9 years ago, plus or minus 3 years, I proposed on CaveTex that a caver 
> could jump into El Sotano de las Golindrinas and land safely on a net.
> 
> Tomorrow on Fox tv at 7 p.m. a man will jump out of a plane at 25,000 feet 
> and land on such a net.
> 
> I think the net is 300 feet off the ground held in place by cranes.
> 
> I think if he wraps his body in Gorilla Tape and wears a padded jumpsuit, and 
> a really good helmet and some neck protection, he just might live a few 
> minutes to tell the story.
> 
> But the trick will be hitting the center of the net.
> 
> His Go-Pro video should get a million hits on YouTube.
> 
> I think he should have 2 nets, where the first one is at 600 feet and is 
> thinner and designed to break.It would not hurt to pad the ground either.
> 
> Does anybody remember the guy's name that jumped off the Eiffel Tower ?
> Nope.
> 
> I bet most people can not name the 2 guys that parachuted from above 100,000 
> feet.
> 
> But you can find all that on Wikipedia and YouTube.
> 
> This does seem like a good way to get out of a toxic marriage.
> 
> David Locklear
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Trip Report # 6 of 9

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David,
Hope you made it home safely. Good luck on the goals of your last paragraph.
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 7:05 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hit Delete Button Now
> 
> 
> This post is not about a tentative trip to a bakery with 2 grumpy old men.
> 
> It is about the long drive home from the 2016 NSS Convention.
> 
> I am currently in west Texas about 25 miles west of Fort Stockton.It is 
> like winter-time here compared to the Hell of the Sonoran Desert.
> 
> My new Sequoia has ran fine since installing a new radiator-cap in Phoenix.
> 
> My body on the other hand misses my very own bed and my own shower.
> 
> Before leaving Ely, I briefly visited all the speleo-vendors.   There was a 
> new LED headlamp by Fenix.   A new book or 2.   Mixon was making a monumental 
> effort to try to sell AMCS literature.Terry Raines was selling 
> water-recycling gear, and his lovely wife, Mercy, was selling her jewelry.
> 
> I quickly glanced at the incredible maps and the photos.There was a 
> Chinese entry with a single 8 kilometer borehole passage going thru a hill 
> and out the other side.
> 
> I said my goodbyes with the uncomfortable feeling that I might never see some 
> of these incredible people ever again.
> 
> I have been driving and napping the whole way, but never once stopped to 
> frolick.
> 
> It is my opinion that dozens and dozens of dedicated cavers do a great deal 
> of work to put on an NSS Convention and it is often the same individuals year 
> after year.
> 
> I think I have attended 12 NSS Howdy Parties.
> 
> I hope to be home before sunrise, but due to work complications I may have to 
> get a motel and go straight to work.
> 
> On a related note,
> 
> I whizzed past some pretty cool places without even hardly looking out the 
> window.The area known as Nothing, Arizona was spectacular and worth a day 
> visit.
> 
> I doubt I will ever do another road-trip like this, but if I do I want a real 
> cellphone service, navigation system, satellite radio, more cash, better 
> tires, road-trip accessories on the bumpers and roof rack.   And 3 more 
> cavers.
> 
> David Locklear
> NSS # 27639
> 
> **Not to be confused with an amateurish cartoon character on a road-trip 
> adventure**
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Road-trip ??

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I now see that David has a "new" 2008 Sequoia spacious gas guzzler. I still 
want to know the fate of his Honda Fit that I thought was purchased new a few 
years ago. What year model was it, David?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why would anyone in their right mind want to go to Vegas? But then it is, 
> Bockbeer. Go to Ely which also has gambling and houses of ill repute as well 
> as bar that I am sure have vodka and there you can sit with your pals instead 
> of the creep Vegas goers. 
> 
> Once in a life time in Vegas by mistake was enough for me. I lost my $20 in a 
> matter of seconds. 
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 11:24 AM, David via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> There is a 4 % chance I am leaving Houston tonight ( Friday ) and driving to 
>> Vegas in my new 2008 Sequoia SUV.
>> 
>> I am tentatively offering a one-way ride to Vegas as I pass thru Austin or 
>> San Antonio.   I have room for 3 people.
>> 
>> Waiting on my jerk customers to pay me, before I can commit.
>> 
>> Not planning on making it to Ely unless stars suddenly line up in a divine 
>> miraculous way, meaning 3 supernovas would have to suddenly appear forming a 
>> perfect Equilateral Triangle bright above the western horizon.
>> 
>> David Locklear
>> 281-995-8487 ( text-line )
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Trip Report #2 of 50

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Friend, David,
I must have missed your original post on your new SUV that you have mentioned 
several times. What is it? Details please. I already know the gas milage. By 
the way, what happened to the HONDA Fit and the Suzuki Bergman scooter that you 
owned?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:38 AM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am eating lunch now, Saturday the 16th, in the scenic quaint little town of 
> Ozona, Texas.  
> 
> I have only driven 411 miles, not counting an hour side-trip wasted to get 
> some gear.It is somebody elses turn to drive now.The NSS Howdy Party 
> might as well be on the Moon at this point in my journey.
> 
> Here are 3 photos from my trip so far.
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/DE17vJgA3r9YatJR8
> 
> Anyway rational person would find a nice shady campground with a natural 
> swimming hole and call the trip a success.However, I am not known in any 
> parts for rationality.
> 
> As I typed this message, my #1 client just texted me and offered to pay me a 
> respectable amount of cash to come to their office today and do some work.
> I am trying to convince them to save it till I get back.They do not like 
> to hear that.Had the jerks given me more notice, I would have most likely 
> planned a different trip.But they allegedly agreed.
> 
> On a related note, driving across the desert in the middle of the summer in 
> the middle of the day is an asinine idea.   
> 
> My new SUV is getting 16 mpg on the flats, but only 8 mpg on the uphill 
> stretches.
> 
> I probably should just go to Lake Balmorhea and spend the night and head 
> home.Right ??
> 
> Or head south to a bar in Ciudad Acuna ??
> 
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Trip-report #1 of 50

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

A trip well planned. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 15, 2016, at 5:42 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I updated my CL rider page to include Austin area
> 
> http://austin.craigslist.org/rid/5684934740.html
> 
> In theory, my road-trip is feasible to Flagstaff and back.
> So my realistic goal is just to have a nice road-trip and be back in Houston 
> late next week.
> 
> I am already 6 hours behind schedule.   I plan to dig thru my rental storage 
> unit in Brenham here shortly, and see if I can find anything I might need for 
> a big road-trip.   
> 
> I think that I left town with nothing but the clothes I am wearing and a set 
> of jumper cables, as I did not get to go home after I got off work. 
>  
> 
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Diana,
I asked the same question but the response did not fully benefit the donor or 
the donee so I sent the money without the benefit of a tax deduction. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@ail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Diana Tomchick via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you would like to get a company or private donor interested in donating 
> large sums of money, it would help if the donors knew they could use it as a 
> deduction on their federal income taxes.
> 
> Which leads me to ask once again (since the first time I asked this question 
> it went unanswered), what would it take to make a donation to the Powell’s 
> Cave gating project tax deductible? The last time I checked the web site, the 
> Texas Speleological Survey is a registered 501(c)(3) organization, both Jim 
> Kennedy and Jerry Atkinson are Director.s Was there no way that the money 
> couldn’t have been donated to the TSS, which would then use the money to fund 
> the protection of Powell’s Cave? Or failing that, through the TCMA?
> 
> Why do we have these organizations in Texas if they can’t be used to leverage 
> donations to protect these important resources?
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:09 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
>> 
>> What did you assume that isn't true?
>> 
>> Caves and karst in Texas are an incredible resource that should be protected 
>> and set aside -  the case for which should be easily made especially when 
>> one considers lack of green space as compared to American East and West. If 
>> Texas cavers could reach around and outside of its own community, get 
>> funding from private donors, one could not only gate dozens of habitat 
>> sensitive caves but also set up a network of karst preserves. For goodness 
>> sake, there are 54 SP500 companies headquarters in Texas!  All that takes is 
>> ability to share your vision with others, show them the resource you are 
>> trying to protect and reasons why. And yes, sometimes take them above and 
>> below the ground, get their hands dirty.
>> 
>> And your concern is a nonexistent moral dilemma?
>> 
>> RK
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:30 -0600
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> 
>>> Then why did you ask, for Pete's sake ?
>>> 
>>> Jerry.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
  wrote:
 
 No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to gain 
 access to the cave, that's a
 wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If
 someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve
 an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not
 the issue of the donor.
 
 RK
 
 
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request. That 
> becomes my problem.
> 
> Jerry.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's 
>> a wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
>> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve 
>> an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
>> the issue of the donor.
>> 
>> RK
>> 
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> 
>>> Rafal,
>>> 
>>> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming 
>>> entitlements for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that 
>>> becomes the principal reason for being philanthropic.
>>> 
>>> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects 
>>> of the cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of 
>>> the cave. Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips 
>>> as survey teams, with little to no quality control of survey standards. 
>>> The 

Re: [Texascavers] [TCR '16]

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

What? No cave men?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:56 PM, David via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are old timers invited ??
> 
> Are arm-chair cavers welcomed ??   What about retired cavers and qausi-cavers 
> ?
> 
> And cave gaterers ?
> 
> And sotano-base jumpers ?
> 
> and cave diggers ?
> 
> And Seacave kayakers ?And Lava Tube Lovers ?
> 
> And Alpine Karst Specialist ?
> 
> Artificial Cave Constructors ?
> 
> Speleo-chemist ??
> 
> Hodags ?
> 
> David Locklear
> dlocklea...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] [TCR '16]

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Don,
You forgot the most prolific and disgusting litter, the cigarette butt. Looking 
for a nice cool work day after July 4th. :( Should be a blast, as usual at this 
great venue. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Triple Creek Ranch


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 132 days from the time of this post will be the 39th annual Texas Cavers 
> Reunion at Paradise Canyon park below Medina Lake on the currently raging 
> Medina River. There will be the usual revelry! Rope climbing contests, 
> surveying contests, mud wrestling contests, speleolympic contests, costume 
> contest, food eating conte… err, not so much a contest…, dishwashing contes…, 
> crap… YES - a DISHWASHING contest, kegs of beer, story telling, swimming, 
> parade, hot tubbing, door prizes, kayaking, river tubing, slides, sashaying, 
> mooching, lying, goofing off, horse play, dumbassery, giddiness, hugging, 
> handshaking, camping, mocking, and general capering about. Come early, on 
> Thursday for the primo campsites. There are four cabins and an RV for rent 
> through Paradise Canyon, please contact them for price and arrangements. 
> Registration costs to be announced later.
> 
> If you are a caver, spelunker, troglodyte, cave manager, cave guide, cave 
> owner, cave archeologist, cave lover, cave explorer, cave diver, cave 
> biologist, cave geologist, cave hydrologist, cave climber, cave squeezer, 
> cave aficionado, cave critter, or caver supporter, caver financier, cave 
> surveyor, cave mapper, naked caver, cave gear vendor, long suffering cave 
> spouse, cave divorcee, cave widow please consider attending. If you aren't, 
> you will be vetted, someone better vouch for you or we may use you as a bad 
> example and let the fairies have you. 
> 
> If you have children or pets, please keep them leashed, clean up after them 
> (bring your own poo bags). We expect them to be quiet and well mannered. 
> Poorly mannered children and pets will be handed over to the cooks or Ogres 
> for disposal.
> 
> NO GLASS CONTAINERS in the park. None. If you are a cook, you are not 
> included in this mandate, unless you go near the river.
> 
> Please bring your own utensils for the Big Feed on Saturday night. 
> 
> Please help us keep the park owner happy with us by being conscientious with 
> trash, the park is open to the public during the rest of the year and bottle 
> caps, twist ties and other minutea of debris gets left behind. With so many 
> environmentalists present at once during our event, if everyone picked up a 
> few things the park would SPARKLE, so would the owners smile! Mine too!
> 
> Sometime after the Fourth of July the park owner has requested some work from 
> us to help keep costs down, he has some brush clearing he'd appreciate. Plus 
> it's an excellent opportunity to gather firewood for the hot tub and fires. 
> More to come later on this. If you think you may like to help, shoot me an 
> email at don at oztotl dot com.
> 
> You have 132 days to create a prize winning, memorable Magical Forest 
> Creature costume! Get on it!!
> 
> 
> --Don
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Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

You mean all this good non caving information?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2016, at 4:04 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Damn, I wish people would remember to sign their emails. I would like to know 
> who posted all this good information. 
> 
> Jim Kennedy
> 
> Mobile email from my iPhone
> 
> 
> Just to provide a different perspective, only 1 in 5 even know have Zika 
> related illness when they are exposed.  It's not 'spiraling out of control' - 
> it's new to North America, yes. It's likely one of many illnesses that go 
> through populations and become part of the infectious tapestry that we all 
> live in. Is anyone reading alarmist articles about Heartland virus or Lone 
> Star fever?
>> 
>> Guillan-Barre syndrome is secondary to number of viruses, it's nothing 
>> specific to Zika. 
>> 
>> Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 mothers 
>> infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k people die in 
>> traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in India. Malaria kills 
>> 1 million people a year. 
>> 
>> RK
>> 
>> See http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/305163.php
>> Symptoms of Zika virus
>> 
>> Signs and symptoms of Zika virus are vague and can last for up to a week. 
>> Diagnosis of the virus is typically confirmed with a blood test.1 
>> Symptoms of Zika virus include:1,2 
>> Fever
>> Rash
>> Joint pain
>> Conjunctivitis (red eyes)
>> Muscle pain
>> Headache
>> Pain behind the eyes
>> Vomiting.
>> According to the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), only 1 in 4 people 
>> infected with Zika virus develop symptoms.5 In contrast, the CDC state the 
>> figure is 1 in 5. 
>> In the past, there have also been reports of patients developing 
>> Guillain-Barré syndrome following a Zika virus infection. Guillain-Barré 
>> syndrome is a rare but serious autoimmune disorder that affects the central 
>> nervous system.6 
>> Infection with the Zika virus is rarely severe enough to warrant 
>> hospitalization, and it is rarer still for an individual to die as a 
>> result.6 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Brain fever

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Sleaze, 
From your previous postings I was always under the impression that you were one 
of the smart people mentioned. But, I may be wrong as I sense a leaning to the 
left. Also, smart people don't support Hillary or Bernie. 
The devil made me do it.
Did I step in it?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 25, 2016, at 12:25 PM, via Texascavers  
> wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> In a message dated 5/25/2016 12:00:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> texascavers@texascavers.com writes:
> In summary, it is a good idea to install bug-zappers around the patio and
> porch and in southeast Texas install them in the house.
> When Doc dished the dirt on Zika the most interesting revelation was that 
> those who have previously had dengue may or may not be preferentially 
> selected for special complications. At 68 I am too old to get pregnant, but I 
> have had dengue several times including the hemorrhagic variety that almost 
> killed me in Thailand a few years back. I would wager that almost all Tex Mex 
> cavers have been exposed to one or more forms of dengue. The best 
> prophylactic method is to keep your pants on. Works for both pregnancy and 
> Zika.
>  
> Biblical plagues notwithstanding, bug zappers are the work of the Devil. 
> Mosquitos are not affected but countless beneficial insects get destroyed. 
> Each time a harmless moth or beetle gets zapped the Devil takes notice and 
> marks it  in his ledger so that during your eternal "rest" in Xibalba you 
> will zapped an equivalent number of times, perhaps about 10,000 times per 
> night. There you will keep good company with those who fail to sign their 
> emails.
>  
> Republicans don't want to waste money on basic research into Zika and other 
> causes of "brain fever" because by allowing such diseases to rage unabated 
> they are breeding a new and swelling generation of Trump supporters who will 
> make Amerika great again. It is smart people who have caused all the world's 
> problems and enough is enough! We don't need no edjumacation!
>  
> And besides, microcephaly isn't so bad. Many pinheads are happy. Just 
> consider Zippy who famously asked,"Are we having fun yet?", a phrase that I 
> have often found useful.
>  
> Since it is mandatory to speak of caves, and I did at least peer into a few 
> on my recent trip to Mexico, I would be happy to separately send copies of my 
> lavishly illustrated two part report entitled "A Trip to the Dentist" to 
> anyone who is interested. Therein you will learn of many things, some of 
> which will be peripherally related to caving. If you want to be put on the 
> story list let me know.
>  
> Sleazeweazel 352 495 9748 bmorgan994 (at) aol.com
> 
>  
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Re: [Texascavers] to slow learner

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

On the few times I post anything I will endeavor to sign off with my name and 
e-mail address. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 25, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Charles for doing the thankless job.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> Seems some clients don't show the email, some do, some show partials.  It 
>> depends on how an email client sends the name of the person that is author.  
>> Gmail seems to play nice for the most part, but even I don't see the names 
>> of some of the people.
>> 
>> As I stated before to everyone, this was forced upon us because of AOL, 
>> Yahoo, Outlook.com (Microsoft), etc and their anti-spam measures.  Those 4 
>> kept marking the listserve email as spam and also automatically blocking the 
>> emails.  Plus, once they "blacklisted us", emails would bounce and the 
>> people who used those email addresses would get auto-unsubscribed from the 
>> list.  
>> 
>> I know it's a pain about the lack of name for some people, but without 
>> moving the mailing list to another medium, there is just not an easy fix.
>> 
>> I've had 0 problems with those big 4 email providers since I changed the 
>> settings.  No one is getting auto-unsubscribed and I've had to deal with 0 
>> spam issues.
>> 
>> If anyone has questions, complaints, comments, feel free to reply or send me 
>> a private message.
>> 
>> Charles, list serve owner and lurker
>> wo...@justfamily.org
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> But the e-mail address from which the post came is not displayed when I 
>>> read Texas Caver posts. Why did you think this was a recurring complaint? 
>>> -- Mixon
>>> 
>>> What great comfort is there to be derived from a wife well obeyed!—Anthony 
>>> Trollope, Barchester Towers
>>> 
>>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>>> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
>>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>>> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lyndon Tiu
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention news

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Don,
Please call me. I would like to discuss convention accommodations with you and 
ask your advice. Thanks 
Fritz Holt
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2016, at 11:03 AM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> You mean whatever it's been called for almost forty years now?
> 
> Drones that use GPS for stability have a tough time underground. And when 
> they cost as much as they do folks aren't very willing to risk their toy in a 
> huge hole.
> 
> 
> --Don
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> 
>> At the OTR or what ever it is these days someone flew an annoying drone 
>> around the place. I thought about batting it out of the air but maybe it 
>> could be flown into Devil's Sink Hole? Might be nifty to see. And I wonder 
>> if instead of cave diving people could use submarine drones. Hah.
>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>> It would be interesting to have an update on the Goodenough Spring cave 
>>> diving project  if new dives have been made since Chuck Noe's presentation 
>>> two years ago. 
>>> Fritz Holt
>>> fritz...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 2, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Crash Kennedy via Texascavers 
>>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The Auction for spots on the Devils Sinkhole trip is really heating up.  
>>>> Bid now for a change on one of only 15 spaces!  
>>>> http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2016/devils_sinkhole_auction.php
>>>> 
>>>> We still have a couple of slots left in our presentation schedule.  If you 
>>>> have a talk on the Edwards Plateau that you would like to present, please 
>>>> contact me offlist.
>>>> 
>>>> We also have spaces available for vendors and exhibitors.  So far we have 
>>>> the TSS, TSA, TCMA, AMCS, TPWD, Devils Sinkhole Society, Caverns of 
>>>> Sonora, and 2016 NSS Convention signed up.  If anyone else would like to 
>>>> set up, please let me know.
>>>> 
>>>> And we are still looking for a volunteer to stop by Shiner and pick up the 
>>>> two donated kegs and assorted Shiner swag for the auction.  Anyone?  It's 
>>>> free beer, people!
>>>> 
>>>> Don't forget to register online before the early registration closes.  You 
>>>> will save big bucks!
>>>> 
>>>> -- Jim
>>>> ___
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>>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Charlie Loving
>> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Devils Sinkhole -- Calling all Old Timers!

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Allan, I will be bringing several pictures of and in the sinkhole which I took 
in the summer of 1955. I can't send them to you but you are welcome to use them 
if you like. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Allan Cobb via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am doing a talk at the TSA Spring Convention about Devils Sinkhole. I would 
> like to hear from cavers who were there in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Bonus 
> points if I can get photos to use in my talk.
> 
> Please contact me off-list at a...@oztotl.com.
> 
> Allan
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention news

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

It would be interesting to have an update on the Goodenough Spring cave diving 
project  if new dives have been made since Chuck Noe's presentation two years 
ago. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 2, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Crash Kennedy via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> The Auction for spots on the Devils Sinkhole trip is really heating up.  Bid 
> now for a change on one of only 15 spaces!  
> http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2016/devils_sinkhole_auction.php
> 
> We still have a couple of slots left in our presentation schedule.  If you 
> have a talk on the Edwards Plateau that you would like to present, please 
> contact me offlist.
> 
> We also have spaces available for vendors and exhibitors.  So far we have the 
> TSS, TSA, TCMA, AMCS, TPWD, Devils Sinkhole Society, Caverns of Sonora, and 
> 2016 NSS Convention signed up.  If anyone else would like to set up, please 
> let me know.
> 
> And we are still looking for a volunteer to stop by Shiner and pick up the 
> two donated kegs and assorted Shiner swag for the auction.  Anyone?  It's 
> free beer, people!
> 
> Don't forget to register online before the early registration closes.  You 
> will save big bucks!
> 
> -- Jim
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Photo & Map Salon-April 23rd, 2016

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Ellie, 
I have a great, large, framed photo which I took of the breakdown and the steel 
cable ladder from the bottom of The Devil's Sinkhole in the summer of 1955. It 
is much like Jimmy Walker's 1952 shot which appears in "50 Years Of Texas 
Caving" except without cavers. I will bring it to the convention to show but 
can't enter it as I don't know how to submit it for entry consideration. 
My daughters and I look forward to visiting with everyone. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:48 AM, Ellie Falgout via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Update: Gregg Williams is running the Map Salon and I am running the Photo 
> Salon. Please email photos to me at ellie.tho...@gmail.com or bring photos to 
> the salon before 10am on Saturday, April 23rd. We are only accepting hard 
> copies of maps and you may submit them to either Gregg or me. 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Ellie Falgout  
>> wrote:
>> Cavers,
>> 
>> I will be chairing the Photo & Map Salon for the TSA Spring Convention on 
>> April 23rd at the Fairgrounds in Rock Springs, TX. Please prepare your 
>> photos and maps to show off to the Texas Cavers. Cash prizes for the 
>> winners! I also need judges for the salons, please let me know if you are 
>> willing to assist.
>> 
>> PHOTO SALON 
>> 
>> Photo Salon rules at http://www.cavetexas.org/events/photosalon.html Prints 
>> must measure at least 8 x 10 inches, but not larger than 20 x 24 inches. All 
>> entries must be mounted, but not framed. The print’s title should appear 
>> either on the matte or on the mount directly below the print. Photos that do 
>> not meet rules will not be judged. 
>> 
>> Categories:
>> Print
>> Digital
>> Photos must be submitted to me, Ellie Falgout or emailed to 
>> donarb...@gmail.com by 10:00 a.m on Saturday, April 23rd. Any entries 
>> received after 10:00 am will not be judged. 
>> 
>> Photo Salon Judging Criteria: 
>> http://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/2012_TSAConventionPhotoSalonJudgingForm.pdf
>> Photo Entry Form: 
>> http://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/2012_TSAConventionPhotoSalonEntryForm.pdf 
>> 
>> MAP SALON
>> Map Salon rules at http://cavetexas.org/events/mapsalon.html. Entry forms 
>> will be available at convention. Map must be created in the last year, 
>> anything older will not be judged. (Significant modifications or additions 
>> made within the last year to older maps may also be submitted.)
>> 
>> Hard copies of all maps must be submitted to me, Ellie Falgout, by 10:00 a.m 
>> on Saturday, April 23rd. Any entries received after 10:00 am will not be 
>> judged. 
>> 
>> Categories:
>> Caves under 100 m
>> Caves over 100 m
>> First-time Cartographer
>> Map Salon Judging Criteria: http://cavetexas.org/PDF/map2007judging.pdf
>> 
>> See you soon,
>> 
>> Ellie Falgout
>> 509-899-0007
>> ellie.tho...@gmail.com
>> 
>> https://www.facebook.com/events/1493950854246139/1510845052556719/
> 
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[Texascavers] Fwd: Edwards Aquifer Authority must shell out to pecan farmers - San Antonio Express-News/Paul Terrill

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: kittymr...@aol.com
> Date: February 25, 2016 at 10:39:45 AM CST
> To: Fritz Holt , Fran Bruce , Jim 
> Hughes 
> Subject: Edwards Aquifer Authority must shell out to pecan farmers - San 
> Antonio Express-News/Paul Terrill
> 
> The lawyer who won for the Braggs is Paul Terrill, GrAcie and Paul's son
> 
> 
> http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/BRAGG-VERDICT-6847721.php?t=ac795161b3=email-premium
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] Rope inquiry

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I think he is going to secure it from the US to Mexico sides above Santa Elena 
Canyon in BBNP and invite cavers to cross it hand over hand. :)
Preston McMichael would have come closest to doing it. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2015, at 8:18 PM, George Veni via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Back to the original topic. I've seen some cave speculation on Geary's 
> question, but I don't think he said anything about the rope being needed for 
> a cave...
> 
> 
> George Veni, PhD
> Executive Director
> National Cave and Karst Research Institute
> 400-1 Cascades Avenue
> Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-9215 USA
> Office: 575-887-5517
> Mobile: 210-863-5919
> Fax: 575-887-5523
> gv...@nckri.org
> www.nckri.org
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Minton via Texascavers
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 18:24
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Rope inquiry
> 
> Herman,
> 
>  What brand of rope is it, and what is your cost? I can think of a project or 
> two that might be interested. 10mm is the sweet spot between heavy, stiff 
> 11mm and light, not-very-abrasion-resistant 9mm.
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
>> On Fri, December 11, 2015 7:05 pm, Herman Miller via Texascavers wrote:
>> I still have 1k feet of clean unused 10m rope for sale at cost;  never 
>> seen the light of day, just thought I'd have been speaking a lot more 
>> Spanish on my caving trips then what I am now.
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Spring TSA meeting

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

 They probably were but without a sanctioning body or organization and caving 
information was mostly word of mouth between spelunkers ( not cavers). My first 
non commercial cave was Frio Cave on the Annandale Ranch near Concan in 1953 at 
18. It is still an interesting cave. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2015, at 8:02 AM, Nancy Weaver via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> boy.  I was under the impression that texas cagers were exploring the hell 
> out of texas caves.  
> 
> nancy
>> On Dec 8, 2015, at 11:51 PM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Texas cavers were plodding along
>> with no such thing until 1956. 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Board Election

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Linda,
I have not received a ballot. Am I a paid member in good standing? If not, 
please tell me the dues and where to mail a check. Thanks. 
Fritz F. Holt
12737 Silver Creek Rd. 
Dripping Springs, TX 78620
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Linda Palit via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> If you are a current TCMA member, you should have received a ballot, tme to 
> mail it back!  If you have not received a ballot please notify me right away! 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> Linda Palit
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[Texascavers] Fwd: Jim McLane photo

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

As you may recall, Jim was a scientist with NASA for a number of years and an 
interesting fellow. As all have said, his presence will be missed. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Jerry via Texascavers 
> Date: September 23, 2015 at 3:22:09 AM CDT
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Jim McLane photo
> Reply-To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Here's another photo of Jim in more recent years. I believe it was taken in 
> 2006. Not sure by whom.
> 
> Jerry.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
> To: TexasCavers 
> Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2015 10:19 pm
> Subject: [Texascavers] Jim McLane photo
> 
> Like all of you, I was shocked to receive the news of Jim’s passing.
> He was an irrepressible adventurer with a extraordinary intellect.
> We will certainly miss his presence in the caving community.
>  
> I don’t have too many photos of Jim but I especially like this one 
> (photographer unknown) taken
> in his younger days on a visit to Gruta de Carrizal in November 1964.
>  
> We are diminished.
>  
> ===Carl Kunath
>  
>  
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Re: [Texascavers] Sad news

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Agreed. Jim was a nice and knowledgeable man. Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Roger Moore via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, heartbreaking for the Greater Houston Grotto.
> 
> Roger
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 12:36 PM, Diana Tomchick via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Sad news indeed.
>> 
>> Diana
>> 
>> **
>> Diana R. Tomchick
>> Professor
>> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
>> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
>> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
>> Rm. ND10.214A
>> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
>> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
>> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
>> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 12:33 PM, Bill Steele via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Texas cavers,
>>> 
>>> I just learned that Houston caver Jim McLane has passed away.
>>> 
>>> Bill Steele
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> UT Southwestern
>> 
>> 
>> Medical Center
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The future of medicine, today.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] article telling landowners to keep cavers away

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Many must have read the article or heard of the perils as it seems to be a 
major reason land owners don't want cavers in their caves, especially water 
caves. I have never seen the article. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 17, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Ben Hutchins via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 For years I've heard about a decades old article (Texas Cattle Magazine?) 
 warning landowners to keep James Reddell and Bill Elliott off of their 
 property because of the risk of finding endangered karst invertebrates.  Does 
 anyone have the specific citation or, better yet, a copy of the article? 
 Please email me off list with any info. 
 
 Thanks,
 Ben Hutchins (hutch...@yahoo.com)
 
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[Texascavers] Fwd: WONDERFUL STORY...

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Definitely not caving related, BUT, even better, it's about life and love. You 
won't be sorry you read this. I confess, before I had finished I was welling up 
and had tears in my eyes and bet you will also. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: June Levy kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: August 3, 2015 at 8:35:18 AM CDT
 To: Fran Bruce sfbru...@att.net, Vicki Thweatt vthwe...@austin.rr.com, 
 Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com, Charles Miller cm...@aol.com
 Subject: Fwd: WONDERFUL STORY...
 
 
 
 Subject: Fwd: WONDERFUL STORY
 
   WONDERFUL STORY Please read
  It is a true story.
   ONE OF THE BEST STORIES I'VE EVER HEARD!   
 As she stood in front of her 5th grade class on the very first day of 
 school, she told the children an untruth.  Like most teachers, she looked at 
 her students and said that she loved them all the same.  However, that was 
 impossible, because there in the front row, slumped in his seat, was a 
 little boy named Teddy Stoddard.
  
  
 Mrs. Thompson had watched Teddy the year before and noticed that he did not 
 play well with the other children, that his clothes were messy and that he 
 constantly needed a bath. In addition, Teddy could be unpleasant.  It got to 
 the point where Mrs. Thompson would actually take delight in marking his 
 papers with a broad red pen, making bold X's and then putting a big 'F' at 
 the top of his papers.
  
  
 At the school where Mrs. Thompson taught, she was required to review each 
 child's past records and she put Teddy's off until last.  However, when she 
 reviewed his file, she was in for a surprise. Teddy's first grade teacher 
 wrote, 'Teddy is a bright child with a ready laugh.  He does his work neatly 
 and has good manners...he is a joy to be around.
  
 His second grade teacher wrote, 'Teddy is an excellent student, well liked 
 by his classmates, but he is troubled because his mother has a terminal 
 illness and life at home must be a struggle.'
  
  
 His third grade teacher wrote, 'His mother's death has been hard on him.  He 
 tries to do his best, but his father doesn't show   much interest, and his 
 home life will soon affect him if some steps aren't taken.' 
  
 Teddy's fourth grade teacher wrote, 'Teddy is withdrawn and doesn't show 
 much interest in school.  He doesn't have many friends and he sometimes 
 sleeps in class.'
  
  
 By now, Mrs.Thompson realized the problem and she was ashamed of herself. 
 She felt even worse when her students brought her Christmas presents, 
 wrapped in beautiful ribbons and bright paper, except for Teddy's.  His 
 present was clumsily wrapped in the heavy, brown paper that he got from a 
 grocery bag.  Mrs. Thompson took pains to open it in the middle of the other 
 presents.  Some of the children started to laugh when she found a rhinestone 
 bracelet with some of the stones missing, and a bottle that was one-quarter 
 full of perfume.  But she stifled the children's laughter when she exclaimed 
 how pretty the bracelet was, putting it on, and dabbing some of the perfume 
 on her wrist.  Teddy Stoddard stayed after school that day just long enough 
 to say, 'Mrs. Thompson, today you smelled just like my Mom used to.'
  
   
 After the children left, she cried for at least an hour.  On that very day, 
 she quit teaching reading, writing and Arithmetic.  Instead, she began to 
 teach children.  Mrs. Thompson paid particular attention to Teddy.  As she 
 worked with him, his mind seemed to come alive.  The more she encouraged 
 him, the faster he responded.  By the end of the year, Teddy had become one 
 of the smartest children in the class and, despite her lie that she would 
 love all the children the same, Teddy became one of her 'teacher's pets..'   
 
  
 A year later, she found a note under her door, from Teddy, telling her that 
 she was the best teacher he ever had in his whole life. 
  
 Six years went by before she got another note from Teddy.  He then wrote 
 that he had finished high school, third in his class, and she was still the 
 best teacher he ever had in life.
  
 Four years after that, she got another letter, saying that while things had 
 been tough at times, he'd stayed in school, had stuck with it, and would 
 soon graduate from college with the highest of honors.  He assured Mrs. 
 Thompson that she was still the best and favorite teacher he had ever had in 
 his whole life.
  
  
 Then four more years passed and yet another letter came.  This time he 
 explained that after he got his bachelor's degree, he decided to go a little 
 further.  The letter explained that she was still the best and favorite 
 teacher he ever had.  But now his name was a little longer.  The letter was 
 signed, Theodore F. Stoddard, MD.  
  
 The story does not end there.  You see, there was yet another letter that 
 spring. Teddy said he had met this girl and was going to be married.  He 
 explained that his father had died a couple of years ago 

Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] Jacob's Well :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Mike. Reporters do make mistakes. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 30, 2015, at 6:54 AM, Mike Flannigan mikef...@att.net wrote:
 
 
 My data says the only Jacobs Well in TX is in 
 Hays county near Wimberley.
 
 
 Mike
 
 
 On 7/30/2015 1:00 AM, Fritz Holt wrote:
 I would still like to know whether the Jacob's Well referred to by the 
 reporter was In Wimberley as opposed to San Antonio. 
 A friend and I explored the lake rooms in the Devil's Sinkhole in the summer 
 of 1955 when the cable ladder in place afforded an easy climb in and out. 
 This was the same ladder shown in Jimmy Walker's sinkhole picture in Carl 
 Kunath's 50 Years of Texas Caving. Jimmy said his picture was taken in 
 1952. Those were the days my friend I knew would someday end. :(
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Jacob's Well :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Jerry. It will be a pleasure to see you at TCR. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 30, 2015, at 1:23 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 It is indeed the Jacob's Well near Wimberley that the diver is in.
 
 Jerry Atkinson
 jerryat...@aol.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 Cc: Cave NM s...@caver.net; TAG Net tag-...@hiddenworld.net; Mandy Holt 
 geekazoidman...@hotmail.com; June Levy kittymr...@aol.com
 Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2015 12:12 am
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Jacob's Well :
 
 I would still like to know whether the Jacob's Well referred to by the 
 reporter was In Wimberley as opposed to San Antonio. 
 A friend and I explored the lake rooms in the Devil's Sinkhole in the summer 
 of 1955 when the cable ladder in place afforded an easy climb in and out. 
 This was the same ladder shown in Jimmy Walker's sinkhole picture in Carl 
 Kunath's 50 Years of Texas Caving. Jimmy said his picture was taken in 
 1952. Those were the days my friend I knew would someday end. :(
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 29, 2015, at 6:50 PM, via Texascaverstexascavers@texascavers.com 
 wrote: 
 
 Ah,yes. To see what is beyond the gate, you should read Jacob's Well by 
 Stephen Harrigan. This is a fictional work, but was partially built on cavers 
 that I hired to work on the Texas Natural Areas Survey (which helped get 
 Devil's Sinkhole, the Lower Canyons, Mt. Livermore, Devil's River, Big Bend 
 Ranch State Park, Enchanted Rock, and other places in Texas set aside in the 
 Public Domain).  Those old enough will recognize individuals who are  
 slightly-disguised cavers and their colleagues from the 70s. Not only is 
 Dwight Deal the heroic (although flawed) model for the geologist, you can 
 recognize parts of Ronnie Fieseler, Tom Byrd, and Ron Ralph, Gary Moore, and 
 certainly remember the Lady Archaeologist who was well known for doing field 
 work in the nude in West Texas.
  
 DirtDoc
 
 From: Jerry via Texascavers  texascavers@texascavers.com 
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 12:23:34 AM 
 Subject: [Texascavers] Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns 
 in Jacobs Well : 
 
 Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns in underwater cave
 
 
 
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/viral-video/11767175/Free-diver-captures-terrifying-moment-he-nearly-drowns-in-underwater-cave.html
  
 
 Young free diver is heard struggling to hold his breath in San Antonio's 
 Jacob's Well as he tries to reach the surface in a heart-stopping race 
 against time
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Trip help?

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Mallory,
Tell us about your new job. For whom will you be employed and what will you be 
doing? Is it long or short term and in which city will you be living? What's 
happening in Costa Rica? Best of luck in this new endeavor. Everyone will miss 
you. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 30, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Mallory via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Hello Cavers!
 
 I'm excited to give y'all a quick update, and ask for help from my caving 
 community again.
 
 After finishing up some insurance drama, and getting confident underground 
 again after my accident 2 years ago, I've move to Louisiana and will be 
 starting a new job in just a couple of weeks!
 
 As a confidence building exercise (plus it's something I really want to do) 
 i'll be traveling to costa Rica this Saturday, and returning next Friday. 
 This will be my first time traveling solo internationally, and there's a 
 little anxiety from the parental units and boyfriend. 
 
 I am relishing the opportunity to travel alone and spread my wings a little 
 bit, after everything that's going on in my life for over two years, but I do 
 want to make everyone in my life feel a little more comfortable with this 
 decision. My question is, are there any members of our caving community 
 living in Costa Rica at the moment? I know there are quite a few Texas Cavers 
 in Mexico. Again, everything has been thoroughly planned, but it would be 
 nice to know there is someone local to reach out to, in event of an emergency.
 
 
 Thanks everyone!
 
 Mallory Mayeux
 mmay...@gmail.com
 
 Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] Jacob's Well :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I would still like to know whether the Jacob's Well referred to by the reporter 
was In Wimberley as opposed to San Antonio. 
A friend and I explored the lake rooms in the Devil's Sinkhole in the summer of 
1955 when the cable ladder in place afforded an easy climb in and out. This was 
the same ladder shown in Jimmy Walker's sinkhole picture in Carl Kunath's 50 
Years of Texas Caving. Jimmy said his picture was taken in 1952. Those were 
the days my friend I knew would someday end. :(
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 29, 2015, at 6:50 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com 
 wrote:
 
 Ah,yes. To see what is beyond the gate, you should read Jacob's Well by 
 Stephen Harrigan. This is a fictional work, but was partially built on cavers 
 that I hired to work on the Texas Natural Areas Survey (which helped get 
 Devil's Sinkhole, the Lower Canyons, Mt. Livermore, Devil's River, Big Bend 
 Ranch State Park, Enchanted Rock, and other places in Texas set aside in the 
 Public Domain).  Those old enough will recognize individuals who are  
 slightly-disguised cavers and their colleagues from the 70s. Not only is 
 Dwight Deal the heroic (although flawed) model for the geologist, you can 
 recognize parts of Ronnie Fieseler, Tom Byrd, and Ron Ralph, Gary Moore, and 
 certainly remember the Lady Archaeologist who was well known for doing field 
 work in the nude in West Texas.
  
 DirtDoc
 
 From: Jerry via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 12:23:34 AM
 Subject: [Texascavers] Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns 
 in Jacobs Well :
 
 Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns in underwater cave
 
 
 
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/viral-video/11767175/Free-diver-captures-terrifying-moment-he-nearly-drowns-in-underwater-cave.html
 
 Young free diver is heard struggling to hold his breath in San Antonio's 
 Jacob's Well as he tries to reach the surface in a heart-stopping race 
 against time
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns in Jcobs Well :

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Jerry, 
Is there another Jacob's Well in San Antonio other than the one in Wimberley? 
An interesting video of interest to all cavers. Thanks!
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 29, 2015, at 1:23 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Free diver captures terrifying moment he nearly drowns in underwater cave
 
 
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/viral-video/11767175/Free-diver-captures-terrifying-moment-he-nearly-drowns-in-underwater-cave.html
 
 Young free diver is heard struggling to hold his breath in San Antonio's 
 Jacob's Well as he tries to reach the surface in a heart-stopping race 
 against tim
 
 
 By Charlotte Krol, video source Storyful / YouTube / DiegoA
 10:11AM BST 28 Jul 2015
 
 A young man who got into difficulties while diving in a deadly underwater 
 well has lived to tell the tale of his brush with death.
 Diego Adame, 21, from Texas, US, caught every moment of his terrifying ordeal 
 in San Antonio's Jacob's Well on his underwater camera.
 Footage shows Mr Adame free diving - where divers hold their breath 
 underwater instead of using a breathing tank - at 100ft below the surface 
 when he suddenly loses one of his flippers. 
 Learning from one diver's fatal mistake of attempting to retrieve their 
 flipper, Mr Adame said he knew he must leave the item behind and resurface 
 immediately. Not doing so would have taken up more vital time and posed him 
 at further risk.
 He was also force to cut off his weight belt in order to rise to the surface 
 as quickly as possible.
 According to Mr Adame, the gasping for air heard throughout the resulting 
 video is a natural occurrence called the mammalian dive reflex, which 
 prevented his lungs from collapsing during the ordeal.
 Jacob's Well has reportedly claimed the lives of 12 divers in the past. 
 
 Jerry Atkinson
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Re: [Texascavers] Kiwi Sink is For Sale

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Stefan may already have a retreat. 
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 24, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Stefan,
 I'm sure you'd enjoy having a retreat out this way.
  
 Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
 700 Billie Brooks Drive
 Driftwood, Texas 78619
 (512) 799-1095
 a...@gluesenkamp.com
 
 From: Stefan Creaser via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Kiwi Sink is For Sale
 
 I would potentially be interested in contributing towards the purchase…
  
 Do you know the timescales by when they’d like to have the property sold, 
 Travis?
  
 Cheers,
 Stefan
  
 stefan.crea...@arm.com
  
 
 
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Travis Scott via Texascavers
 Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:27 AM
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: [Texascavers] Kiwi Sink is For Sale
  
 Howdy Cavers,
  
 I just wanted to spread the word that Kiwi Sink in the Driftwood area has 
 come up for sale by owner.  It is on two acres off of Billie Brooks Lane in 
 Hays County (amongst the small caver community there).  The property has a 
 fairly large 4/2 mobile home, garage/barn and some other items.  Kiwi Sink is 
 a somewhat significant recharge feature that local cavers have excavated over 
 the years to approximately 102.3m long and 17.5m deep.  The owner hopes that 
 cavers can acquire it, but is putting it on the market and it will be open to 
 anyone.  He has verbally mentioned an asking price of $167,000 for the 
 property at this time.
  
 If you or anyone you know might be interested in purchasing the property and 
 cave, please let me know and I will get you in touch with the owner.  Thanks!!
  
 Travis Scott
 tra...@oztotl.com
 979.450.0103 (cell)
  
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium. Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] [CaveSim at TCR!]

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

My thoughts also. Must take a semi as in moving a house. 
Fritz 
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 I have no objection to CaveSim at TCR, at least as long as $$ don't add to 
 the registration. But I am moved to point out that $1500 is a lot more than 
 fuel money, so Dave is not exactly donating the use of it. -- Mixon 
 
 If something is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Vietnam Cave on TV

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Mark who?
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 14, 2015, at 12:31 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com 
 wrote:
 
  
 I want to go to these caves so bad!
  
  
 Mark
 texascav...@yahoo.com
  
  
  
  
 http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/drones-inside-hidden-world-live-3077
  
  
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3023009/Below-surface-Laos-Kayakers-capture-incredible-rock-formations-emerald-green-waters-immense-cave-system.html
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Don. June and I plan to be there after having missed last month's 
convention. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 28, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Paradise Canyon October 15, 16, 17  18.
 
 
 --Don
 
 On Apr 28, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Charles, 
 What are the dates and location for this years TCR? Others may also want to 
 hear this again. 
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
 713-818-2496
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Sounds good, I had planned to bring it to get aerial footage, much
 like I did at TSA.
 
 On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Kurt L. Menking via Texascavers
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Charles,
 
 Bring it to TCR this year.  There is a cavy looking lead high up in the 
 cliff that the owner has seen coyotes coming and going.  He wants us to 
 check it out.  We could do the drone first, then try to reach it from 
 above.
 
 Kurt
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf 
 Of Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 12:35 PM
 To: Cavetex
 Subject: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves
 
 I had a couple of people approach me about drones and caving this weekend 
 at the TSA convention.  I did not get names from people, and anytime there 
 is alcohol involved, I'm not going to remember who.
 
 If you are interested in drone flying and more specifically if you have a 
 trip or project that can benefit from me assisting with my drone, contact 
 me off-list.  I'll gladly assist as I can for any projects.
 
 Where I can see the drone helping is with ridge walking, checking out high 
 leads in caves (that have enough room for the drone to maneuver) and also 
 checking out leads on cliff faces.  It can potentially be used to check 
 out pits before dropping into one, depending on the size/nature of the pit.
 
 While it does pretty good in wind, that's a factor that has to be taken 
 into account, as well as obstacles.  We'll also have to keep it away from 
 any bats, since it's a bit noisy and we don't want to disturb them.  It 
 might be useful in scaring off other varmits to move them away from an 
 entrance (snakes, etc).
 
 Charles Goldsmith
 wo...@justfamily.org
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Re: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Lyndon. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 28, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Oct. 15 to 18, 2015.
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
 
 On Apr 28, 2015 12:53 PM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Charles,
 What are the dates and location for this years TCR? Others may also want to 
 hear this again.
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
 713-818-2496
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Apr 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers 
  texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
  Sounds good, I had planned to bring it to get aerial footage, much
  like I did at TSA.
 
  On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Kurt L. Menking via Texascavers
  texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
  Charles,
 
  Bring it to TCR this year.  There is a cavy looking lead high up in the 
  cliff that the owner has seen coyotes coming and going.  He wants us to 
  check it out.  We could do the drone first, then try to reach it from 
  above.
 
  Kurt
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf 
  Of Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers
  Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 12:35 PM
  To: Cavetex
  Subject: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves
 
  I had a couple of people approach me about drones and caving this weekend 
  at the TSA convention.  I did not get names from people, and anytime 
  there is alcohol involved, I'm not going to remember who.
 
  If you are interested in drone flying and more specifically if you have a 
  trip or project that can benefit from me assisting with my drone, contact 
  me off-list.  I'll gladly assist as I can for any projects.
 
  Where I can see the drone helping is with ridge walking, checking out 
  high leads in caves (that have enough room for the drone to maneuver) and 
  also checking out leads on cliff faces.  It can potentially be used to 
  check out pits before dropping into one, depending on the size/nature of 
  the pit.
 
  While it does pretty good in wind, that's a factor that has to be taken 
  into account, as well as obstacles.  We'll also have to keep it away from 
  any bats, since it's a bit noisy and we don't want to disturb them.  It 
  might be useful in scaring off other varmits to move them away from an 
  entrance (snakes, etc).
 
  Charles Goldsmith
  wo...@justfamily.org
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Re: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Charles, 
What are the dates and location for this years TCR? Others may also want to 
hear this again. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Sounds good, I had planned to bring it to get aerial footage, much
 like I did at TSA.
 
 On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Kurt L. Menking via Texascavers
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Charles,
 
 Bring it to TCR this year.  There is a cavy looking lead high up in the 
 cliff that the owner has seen coyotes coming and going.  He wants us to 
 check it out.  We could do the drone first, then try to reach it from above.
 
 Kurt
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 12:35 PM
 To: Cavetex
 Subject: [Texascavers] Drone flying and caves
 
 I had a couple of people approach me about drones and caving this weekend at 
 the TSA convention.  I did not get names from people, and anytime there is 
 alcohol involved, I'm not going to remember who.
 
 If you are interested in drone flying and more specifically if you have a 
 trip or project that can benefit from me assisting with my drone, contact me 
 off-list.  I'll gladly assist as I can for any projects.
 
 Where I can see the drone helping is with ridge walking, checking out high 
 leads in caves (that have enough room for the drone to maneuver) and also 
 checking out leads on cliff faces.  It can potentially be used to check out 
 pits before dropping into one, depending on the size/nature of the pit.
 
 While it does pretty good in wind, that's a factor that has to be taken into 
 account, as well as obstacles.  We'll also have to keep it away from any 
 bats, since it's a bit noisy and we don't want to disturb them.  It might be 
 useful in scaring off other varmits to move them away from an entrance 
 (snakes, etc).
 
 Charles Goldsmith
 wo...@justfamily.org
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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Rolling Oaks Work Day--old bottles

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Logan. I have a collection here at Triple Creek Ranch near Dripping 
Springs. I particularly like unusual and colored ones. The same goes for 
insulators. All are invited to come to the ranch almost anytime. 
Fritz Holt
713-818-2496

Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 16, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Ellie, TCMA, and everyone else digging in caves with old trash,
 
 If you find old bottles, here is the best website to identify how old they 
 are and what they contained:
 http://www.sha.org/bottle/
 
 The SHA is the Society for Historic Archeology. I recommend you keep all old 
 bottles, because bottle collecting is very popular. They might even bring a 
 good price at the TCMA Auction!
 
 Logan
 lmcn...@austin.rr.com
 
 On 3/16/2015 1:29 PM, Ellie Watson via Texascavers wrote:
 We're having another volunteer work day at Rolling Oaks Cave Preserve
 in Bexar County (northwest San Antonio) on Saturday, March 21st at
 10am.  The main purposes are to clean up the grounds (trash and
 branches) and to continue the dig at Niche Cave, which is full of old
 farm trash and sediment that is washing in.  We need people, buckets,
  shovels.  Bring your own drinks and snacks for the work.  TCMA will
 provide bottled water and light lunch.  The cave preserve is located
 at 224 Laurel Ridge Lane, San Antonio, TX 78253.  All visitors to the
 Preserve will be asked to sign a liability waiver. Meet at 10:00 am.
 Bring your own cave gear if you wish to enter any of the four Preserve
 caves after the dig.
 
 I can be reached at 509-899-0007 or ellie.tho...@gmail.com in case any
 one gets lost, or if you would like coordinate more details. No need
 to RSVP if you are attending, just show up!
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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA news

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Ron,
Put me down for a $100. donation as I hope to visit Ezell's Cave one day since 
it is in my neighborhood. I prefer to pay by check so will need to know to 
whom payable and the address. Isn't there a caver welder who would volunteer 
his labor?
Fritz Holt
fritztcr@gmail.c
Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 9, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Ron Ralph via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Cavers,
  
 Ezells Cave Preserve in San Marcos, owned by the Texas Cave Management 
 Association, is in need of a new gate.  Many years ago the cave was 
 permanently sealed and the small population of Myotis velifer bats was denied 
 access, which cut off the nutrient supply for many rare and endangered 
 denizens living in the lake below.  Later, the gate was removed and sporadic 
 use by bats was noted by visitors.  Later still, a new gate and concrete 
 platform were installed which did nothing to enhance bat populations to 
 return, although a few tricolored bats (Perimyotis subflavus) have been noted 
 in recent years.  A new gate is envisioned that would reopen the window into 
 the aquifer and help restore the ecology of the cave.
 So how can you help?
 We have already applied for and received a Landowner Incentive Program grant 
 but we need more to offset the greatly-discounted $13,000 price tag for the 
 construction project.  A lot of the design work and equipment is being 
 donated by Jim Kennedy through his business, but we will need additional 
 funds for steel and welding supplies. We also need to pay a welder.  Please 
 go to the Donate section on our website to pledge today.  For those who wish 
 to donate additional funds, we are giving you an opportunity to have your 
 name welded on steel.  For every $100 donation, we offer to put your full 
 name on a length of steel which will be incorporated into the gate.  Lesser 
 donations may entitle you to steel initials.
 And we will need many volunteers to need carry steel from the street to the 
 cave, lift bars into place, remove the old concrete platform, and clean up 
 the site after the work is complete.  We will keep you posted on our 
 construction schedule via e-mail and Facebook.
 If you wish to donate your time and labor, call Ron Ralph (512-280-0648) or 
 Jim Kennedy (512- 663-2287) and you will be added to the volunteer labor 
 sign-up sheet.  The Texas Blind Salamander (Eurycea rathbuni) will thank you.
 http://www.tcmacaves.org/financial/EzellGate.php
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2015 Survey

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I'm with Charles. The convention held at Ft. Clark several years ago was the 
best and the area had everything. What a beautiful paradise. Some may think it 
is too far west but it is worth the drive. It would also encourage more 
participants from the western parts of the state. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 I like Bracketville myself. It is close to my house. It has swimming and 
 water and a hotel for the codgers and there are dozens of caves nearby. The 
 NSS Convention went off well there.  We also did Chalk Bluff once and got 
 drowned out.
 
 On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Ok, Cavers, I'm starting to think about this upcoming TCR, locations and 
 dates. Paradise Canyon called me yesterday, and asked me to ask around and 
 spread the word that if we have any need for a meeting site, he'd be happy 
 to help. We all like PC, but they still have no water. It's not a deal 
 killer. It's an option for TSA, TCMA and TCR.
 How do y'all feel about this site?
 
 Next is the date. There have been several traditional weekends and many 
 suggestions etc. I've penciled in the weekend of October 15-18 as a target 
 date.
 How do y'all feel about that?
 
 
 --Don
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 -- 
 Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2015 Survey

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Find the right place and I would contribute. The Blanco near Wimberley would be 
ideal. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 7, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 That works for me too. Find a nice place and buy it. If every caver chipped 
 in $10 and there are at least five or six that I know of there would be a 
 great stash of dollars. If 500 cavers came up with $25 each there you go.
 
 On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:56 AM, via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 All,
 
  
 
 I wrote this to Allan back in ’10 and still stand by it.
 
  
 
 Keep it at the same location and weekend henceforth.
 
  
 
  
 
 Mark Alman
 
 texascav...@yahoo.com
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Alman, Mark @ EOS 
 Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:07 AM
 To: Allan Cobb
 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Location for TCR
 
  
 
  
 
 Wow, Allan! (Now, Don)
 
  
 
 Sorry about all of the grief you have been receiving. Sheesh, some people!
 
  
 
  
 
 FWIW, I still like and would have liked to have seen TCR being held at 
 Paradise Canyon this year and for the foreseeable future.
 
  
 
  
 
 It was a pain to get to and a lot longer drive for me from DFW, but, a great 
 and beautiful location, nevertheless.
 
  
 
 Hidden Falls would be closer for me, but, I thought Paradise Canyon was a 
 brilliant selection by you with a lot of good features, facilities, and 
 natural beauty.
 
  
 
  
 
 The crap we go thru for all of these positions and tasks that pay absolutely 
 nothing, huh?!
 
  
 
  
 
 Keep a stiff upper lip and I support you in whatever choice you make.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Mark
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Ok, Cavers, I'm starting to think about this upcoming TCR, locations and 
 dates. Paradise Canyon called me yesterday, and asked me to ask around and 
 spread the word that if we have any need for a meeting site, he'd be happy 
 to help. We all like PC, but they still have no water. It's not a deal 
 killer. It's an option for TSA, TCMA and TCR.
 How do y'all feel about this site?
 
 Next is the date. There have been several traditional weekends and many 
 suggestions etc. I've penciled in the weekend of October 15-18 as a target 
 date.
 How do y'all feel about that?
 
 
 --Don
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 --
 
 Charlie Loving
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2015 Survey

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Many cavers and spelunkers could afford considerably more than $25.
F

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 7, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 If 500 cavers came up with $25 each there you go. Charlie, that's $12,500. 
 If you can find a good TCR site for that, I might buy it myself.--Mixon
 
 A fearless man cannot be brave.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cave

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and beautiful Laura. Sounds great, June and I would like 
to attend, if possible. Please send address and directions. What may we bring 
to eat for all to enjoy?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 22, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Seasons Greeting Fritz!
  
 Hope you enjoy the attached pic ;-)
  
 BTW, we are having a New Year’s Party at our new house. Are you free, would 
 you like directions/information?
  
 Cheers,
 Stefan
  
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 4:53 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
  
 Lyndon,
 I was waiting for some wise- ass to say, Who's Jesus. Merry Christmas, 
 Lyndon, Barbara and Emma and others who read all this junk. 
 Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 No, don't stop, please keep it coming. It's a welcome break to my 
 mind-numbing non-stop 24/7 baby, family, work life ...
  
 Merry Christmas to y'all !!!
  
 For those who don't believe in Jesus, Happy Holidays. 
  
 See you guys at a caving event soon.
  
  
 On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:18 PM, trog...@hotmail.com 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 If y'all are going to keep insulting each other, I recommend you email each 
 other privately and take it off the list serve. We don't need this kind of 
 talk on here.
 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Semper Exploro
 Maverick grotto
 Cowtown grotto
 DFW grotto
 UT grotto 
 Bexar grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 
 Sent from my pocket computer.
 
 
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 --
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 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
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Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Not a problem but would 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 22, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Fritz.
 
 We don't have space for all the Texas Cavers, so it's really just the UT 
 Grotto ppl, sorry.
 
 If you are in town thou, get in touch...
 
 Cheers, Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers [texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon 
 Tiu via Texascavers [texascavers@texascavers.com]
 Sent: 22 December 2014 18:41
 To: Cavers Texas
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Stefan,
 
 Are you inviting Fritz only or everyone on this list?
 
 On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Seasons Greeting Fritz!
 
 Hope you enjoy the attached pic ;-)
 
 BTW, we are having a New Year’s Party at our new house. Are you free, would 
 you like directions/information?
 
 Cheers,
 Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers 
 [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.commailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com]
  On Behalf Of Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 4:53 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Lyndon,
 I was waiting for some wise- ass to say, Who's Jesus. Merry Christmas, 
 Lyndon, Barbara and Emma and others who read all this junk.
 Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 No, don't stop, please keep it coming. It's a welcome break to my 
 mind-numbing non-stop 24/7 baby, family, work life ...
 
 Merry Christmas to y'all !!!
 
 For those who don't believe in Jesus, Happy Holidays.
 
 See you guys at a caving event soon.
 
 
 On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:18 PM, 
 trog...@hotmail.commailto:trog...@hotmail.com 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 If y'all are going to keep insulting each other, I recommend you email each 
 other privately and take it off the list serve. We don't need this kind of 
 talk on here.
 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Semper Exploro
 Maverick grotto
 Cowtown grotto
 DFW grotto
 UT grotto
 Bexar grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 
 Sent from my pocket computer.
 
 
 ___
 Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
 Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
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 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium. Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782
 
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 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2548782
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Not a problem but would still like to know the location of your new house. We 
will be at the ranch with no plans, yet.  Happy New Year!
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 22, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Fritz.
 
 We don't have space for all the Texas Cavers, so it's really just the UT 
 Grotto ppl, sorry.
 
 If you are in town thou, get in touch...
 
 Cheers, Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers [texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon 
 Tiu via Texascavers [texascavers@texascavers.com]
 Sent: 22 December 2014 18:41
 To: Cavers Texas
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Stefan,
 
 Are you inviting Fritz only or everyone on this list?
 
 On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Seasons Greeting Fritz!
 
 Hope you enjoy the attached pic ;-)
 
 BTW, we are having a New Year’s Party at our new house. Are you free, would 
 you like directions/information?
 
 Cheers,
 Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers 
 [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.commailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com]
  On Behalf Of Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 4:53 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Lyndon,
 I was waiting for some wise- ass to say, Who's Jesus. Merry Christmas, 
 Lyndon, Barbara and Emma and others who read all this junk.
 Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 No, don't stop, please keep it coming. It's a welcome break to my 
 mind-numbing non-stop 24/7 baby, family, work life ...
 
 Merry Christmas to y'all !!!
 
 For those who don't believe in Jesus, Happy Holidays.
 
 See you guys at a caving event soon.
 
 
 On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:18 PM, 
 trog...@hotmail.commailto:trog...@hotmail.com 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 If y'all are going to keep insulting each other, I recommend you email each 
 other privately and take it off the list serve. We don't need this kind of 
 talk on here.
 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Semper Exploro
 Maverick grotto
 Cowtown grotto
 DFW grotto
 UT grotto
 Bexar grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 
 Sent from my pocket computer.
 
 
 ___
 Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
 Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
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 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium. Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782
 
 ___
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 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2548782
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Where do I join? :)

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 22, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Fritz.
 
 We don't have space for all the Texas Cavers, so it's really just the UT 
 Grotto ppl, sorry.
 
 If you are in town thou, get in touch...
 
 Cheers, Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers [texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon 
 Tiu via Texascavers [texascavers@texascavers.com]
 Sent: 22 December 2014 18:41
 To: Cavers Texas
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Stefan,
 
 Are you inviting Fritz only or everyone on this list?
 
 On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Seasons Greeting Fritz!
 
 Hope you enjoy the attached pic ;-)
 
 BTW, we are having a New Year’s Party at our new house. Are you free, would 
 you like directions/information?
 
 Cheers,
 Stefan
 
 From: Texascavers 
 [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.commailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com]
  On Behalf Of Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 4:53 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers
 
 Lyndon,
 I was waiting for some wise- ass to say, Who's Jesus. Merry Christmas, 
 Lyndon, Barbara and Emma and others who read all this junk.
 Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 No, don't stop, please keep it coming. It's a welcome break to my 
 mind-numbing non-stop 24/7 baby, family, work life ...
 
 Merry Christmas to y'all !!!
 
 For those who don't believe in Jesus, Happy Holidays.
 
 See you guys at a caving event soon.
 
 
 On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:18 PM, 
 trog...@hotmail.commailto:trog...@hotmail.com 
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 If y'all are going to keep insulting each other, I recommend you email each 
 other privately and take it off the list serve. We don't need this kind of 
 talk on here.
 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Semper Exploro
 Maverick grotto
 Cowtown grotto
 DFW grotto
 UT grotto
 Bexar grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 
 Sent from my pocket computer.
 
 
 ___
 Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
 Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
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 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium. Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No: 2548782
 
 ___
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 http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
 
 
 
 
 --
 Lyndon Tiu
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2548782
 
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Re: [Texascavers] doing sinful things in caves

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Stefan, I haven't either but was
Married to two women who smoked but that was two wives ago. Thank God June 
doesn't. 
Fritz
fritztcr@gmail. com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 23, 2014, at 12:42 PM, Stefan Creaser via 
 Texascaverstexascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Bill,
 
 It's not that I think the smoke is going to kill me, I just think the smell 
 is deeply unpleasant. It also makes my clothes reek. I have never smoked a 
 cigarette in my life and so have never needed to get used to the smell...
 
 Cheers,
 Stefan
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Mixon Bill via Texascavers
 
 
 When I started caving, nobody thought twice about smoking in a cave.
 [] Apparently some people have come to think that the merest whiff of 
 cigarette smoke will kill them, []. The whole anti-smoking thing is silly.
 
 
 -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 
 ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2557590
 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, 
 Registered in England  Wales, Company No:  2548782
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Re: [Texascavers] Conduct Unbecoming of Cavers

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Lyndon,
I was waiting for some wise- ass to say, Who's Jesus. Merry Christmas, 
Lyndon, Barbara and Emma and others who read all this junk. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 No, don't stop, please keep it coming. It's a welcome break to my 
 mind-numbing non-stop 24/7 baby, family, work life ...
 
 Merry Christmas to y'all !!!
 
 For those who don't believe in Jesus, Happy Holidays. 
 
 See you guys at a caving event soon.
 
 
 On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:18 PM, trog...@hotmail.com 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 If y'all are going to keep insulting each other, I recommend you email each 
 other privately and take it off the list serve. We don't need this kind of 
 talk on here.
 
 Ryan Monjaras
 Semper Exploro
 Maverick grotto
 Cowtown grotto
 DFW grotto
 UT grotto 
 Bexar grotto
 Greater Houston Grotto
 TSA
 TCMA
 
 Sent from my pocket computer.
 
 
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 Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
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 -- 
 Lyndon Tiu
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Re: [Texascavers] Texascavers Digest, Vol 6, Issue 21

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

And I thought she was a Sunday school teacher. F

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 21, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Julie Jenkins via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Well, since yur sharing with to and intend this for only me and have a suck 
 ass name like sleaveweasel- well no more need to said- a locklear fan I hope 
 u 2 enjoy each other's special man love! Scumbag!! U shut the fu-- up. 
 Shithead
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 12:01 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com 
 wrote:
 
 In a message dated 12/21/2014 12:00:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
 texascavers@texascavers.com writes:
 shut the F---
  
 As a person who is often taken to task by inarticulate idiots I support 
 Locklear's idiosyncratic comments and strongly suggest that the ignoramus 
 who protested his postings take a slug out of the piss bottle and shut the 
 F---k  Up!
  
 Sleazeweazel
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Re: [Texascavers] Texascavers Digest, Vol 6, Issue 21

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Maybe someone stole her phone and wants to embarrass her. F

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 21, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 This is way worse and more embarrassing than anything David ever posted.
 Congratulations.
 
 
 --Don
 
 On Dec 21, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Julie Jenkins via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Well, since yur sharing with to and intend this for only me and have a suck 
 ass name like sleaveweasel- well no more need to said- a locklear fan I hope 
 u 2 enjoy each other's special man love! Scumbag!! U shut the fu-- up. 
 Shithead
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Re: [Texascavers] A climbing related video

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

David,
A most unusual and daring climb. I 
am not a rock climber but have never seen this technique. He puts a lot of 
faith in these hand tools but they seem to be most effective. Thanks!
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 2, 2014, at 7:45 AM, David via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Check out this rock-climber's confidence on the over-hanging cliff face:
 
 ( sorry for the Facebook link )
 
 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780279402027526refid=17
 
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Re: [Texascavers] the good old days

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I agree! This is a compilation of the best caving (spelunking) stories I have 
ever read. Now Helmer can be recognized for his storytelling as well as his 
early Texas Caver art work. 
I can relate as I first started spelunking in the early 1950's with my first 
wild cave being Frio Bat Cave in 1953. In the summer of 1955 two buddies and I 
climbed into (and out of) The Devil's Sinkhole on the then existing shop-made 
cable ladder. This was my greatest spelunking adventure except for the two day 
exploration of Mayfield Cave with Jimmy Walker, Bob Hudson and his 
brother-in-law, Ralph, at the end of 1955. We crossed the ledge with the aid of 
the rope stretched along the wall over the pit and experienced the most 
beautiful cave formations any of us had ever seen, before or since. An 
adventure none of us will ever forget. 
Any chance of getting Helmer to write more of his caving experiences?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 24, 2014, at 10:26 PM, Preston Forsythe via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Incredible Texas caving stories from the mid-fifties This caving report 
 by Bill Helmer is a must read.
 
 Thanks to Bill Mixon for posting this.
 
 Preston in western KY
 -- - Original Message 
 - From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:22 PM
 Subject: [Texascavers] the good old days
 
 
 It's really a lot of fun browsing through the old issues of the Texas Caver. 
 A lot of garbage, but a lot of good material, too, and the 1973 volume had 
 380 pages of _monthly_ issues. Here's a link to a PDF of a must-read article 
 from August 1974 about caving in the middle fifties.  I laughed out loud a 
 least once. Enjoy.
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26580089/1974-v19-n08.pdf
 -- Mixon
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Ocampo related

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Good story, David. 
Fritz
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:49 AM, David via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 In the fall of 1987, about 6 A.S.S. members camped on a small river bank at 
 the following location
 
 22.853128, -99.121751
 
 http://goo.gl/maps/hVUlI
 
 The trip was lead by Tim Jones ( who now owns a software business in Austin, 
 I think )
 
 We spent a day ridgewalking here, and tried our best to find a cave, but did 
 not find anything.  
 
 Tim had info and topo maps on vague potential leads that he got from Austin 
 cavers.
 
 We ended up going to a village called San Jose in the El Cielo, and caving 
 there.
 
 We were all too young., inexperienced, ill-equipped, hard-headed, etc  to 
 accomplish anything, ( especially me. ) But the biggest obstacles were 
 personnel differences, and that none of us knew much about Mexico, or Spanish.
 
 However, I learned things on that trip that I carried with me years later - 
 like you do NOT pull off on the side of a busy Mexican highway in the middle 
 of the night and take a nap.
 
 Tim went back to Mexico several times to ridgewalk with a Houston caver who 
 is well known for finding entrances in that part of Mexico.
 
 But I lost contact with him 25 years ago.  He wanted to be a hard-core caver 
 in 1987, and was designing his own custom headlight.  He was President of 
 A.S.S. in 87 and probably 88.  But his biggest impact, was that he was the 
 only caver there with a car.  The rest of us were poor students.   Those were 
 the good ole days, right ?
 
 David Locklear
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Austin deer on Cavetex

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

What is Facebook ?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 14, 2014, at 8:02 PM, Frank Binney via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 I think deer photos are more appropriate for Facebook than Cavetex, but that 
 said, here’s the type of deer you might see at the Center of the Caving 
 Universe.
 Frank Binney
 
 From: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Reply-To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Friday, November 14, 2014 at 9:07 AM
 To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Cc: Mandy Holt geekazoidman...@hotmail.com, Janice Vieira 
 janjanj...@aol.com, Jenny Holt jhol...@gmail.com
 Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: doe at the feeder this morning
 
 A stretch for caving related only because we are all lovers of the outdoors. 
 These doe gather regularly at the continuous feeder immediately (250 feet) 
 behind my home.  I have a great picture of four eight point bucks gathered 
 together here. May send if I can locate. I love Dripping Springs. 
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 From: Shannon Lafayette shannonlafaye...@gmail.com
 Date: November 13, 2014 at 4:47:10 PM CST
 To: Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com, june levy junele...@icloud.com
 Subject: doe at the feeder this morning
 SLP_2307.jpeg
 ___ Texascavers mailing list | 
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 SLP_2307.jpeg
 AustinDeer.jpg
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[Texascavers] Fwd: doe at the feeder this morning

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

A stretch for caving related only because we are all lovers of the outdoors. 
These doe gather regularly at the continuous feeder immediately (250 feet) 
behind my home.  I have a great picture of four eight point bucks gathered 
together here. May send if I can locate. I love Dripping Springs. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Shannon Lafayette shannonlafaye...@gmail.com
 Date: November 13, 2014 at 4:47:10 PM CST
 To: Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com, june levy junele...@icloud.com
 Subject: doe at the feeder this morning
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver issue

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Jim,
Is there actually going to be an auction at TCR this year such as is held at 
the convention?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 9, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Not polite to ask him about his dental problems. 
 
 Mobile email from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 9, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Jill
 
 How did the cave trip go. I saw your pictures on facebook but we need a 
 short trip repot.
 
 Also, how is the plaque coming along.
 
 Geary
 
 Sent from Surface Pro
 
 From: Texas Cavers
 Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎October‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎5‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
 To: Texas Cavers
 
 The Texas Caver online issue is up.
  
 And now there is also an eBook  version!  However since neither I or the TSA 
 webmaster own a Nook or tablet, and I haven’t gotten around to downloading a 
 digital book ap, I’m depending on readers with the capability for feedback.
 Thanks!
  
 image003.png
 jill orr
 210.399.6762
 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com
  
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[Texascavers] Fwd: IT'S PAPER!!! IT'S REALLY PAPER?

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Looking at all the related posts, I think TCR will be a blast, as usual. Seems 
like a stretch but I guess it is all considered caving related. What ever 
happened to OT? Is it deactivated? My post is definitely OT but at least it 
isn't political. It is very interesting and informative. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: June Levy kittymr...@aol.com
 Date: October 6, 2014 at 5:06:49 PM CDT
 To: Marianne mango0...@yahoo.com, Brody Neuenschwander brod...@skynet.be, 
 GrAcie Terrill gracieterr...@sbcglobal.net, Fran Bruce sfbru...@att.net, 
 Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com, clara swanzie neuenschwander 
 clara.ne...@hotmail.com, Nadine nadine.leb...@vives.be
 Subject: Fwd: IT'S PAPER!!! IT'S REALLY PAPER?
 
 
 
 Subject: Fw: Fwd: IT'S PAPER!!! IT'S REALLY PAPER?
  
  
 Keep saying to yourself, IT'S PAPER!!! IT'S REALLY PAPER?  
 Yes, it's only paper.  But wait till you see it.  Absolutely amazing.
 
 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=524687030973306set=vb.72341214778type=2theater
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
  
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Collector in Minnesota Hunts for Additions to His Empire

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Seems to me that Mr. Ackerman's caves could be donated to the NSA, a 
non-governmental entity for the same purposes for which they are currently 
being used. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 6, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Lee H. Skinner via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 From the New York Times: http://tinyurl.com/ko4jm2v
 
 Lee Skinner
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Carl. I will check it out. 
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 28, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 I think we have everything.  Nearly all was included in 50 YEARS.
 ===Carl (still in Moab)
  
 From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:59 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer
  
 Thanks, Carl. Does TSA have a collection of Helmer's art work?
 Fritz
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 22, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I have been in contact with Bill for many years.
 He does live in Boerne.
  
 ===Carl (from Moab, Utah)
  
 From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:27 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer
  
 In the late 1950's when I first became interested in caving, I enjoyed 
 seeing Helmer's clever Texas Caver covers and other art work. I don't have 
 them now but they were priceless. Hey Carl, do you think he could really be 
 living in Boerne?
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
  
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Joe Pearce mentioned Bill Helmer.That is a name I haven't heard spoke 
 of in
 caving circles in a while.When I was a newbie, sitting around the 
 campfire in
 Carta Valley, or somewhere out west, cavers spoke of him like a legend.
  
 The 2 links below are related and mention someone with the same
 name.Is this him ?
  
 http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id59.htm
  
 http://www.angelfire.com/mo/crimeinc/page3.html
  
 If so, the article says he lives in Bourne, Texas ( where ever that is )
  
  
  
 Somebody could write a nice article for the Texas Caver about
 Bill Helmer.   Right ?
  
 David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Thanks, Carl. Does TSA have a collection of Helmer's art work?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 22, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I have been in contact with Bill for many years.
 He does live in Boerne.
  
 ===Carl (from Moab, Utah)
  
 From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:27 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer
  
 In the late 1950's when I first became interested in caving, I enjoyed seeing 
 Helmer's clever Texas Caver covers and other art work. I don't have them now 
 but they were priceless. Hey Carl, do you think he could really be living in 
 Boerne?
 Fritz Holt
 fritz...@gmail.com
  
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Joe Pearce mentioned Bill Helmer.That is a name I haven't heard spoke of 
 in
 caving circles in a while.When I was a newbie, sitting around the 
 campfire in
 Carta Valley, or somewhere out west, cavers spoke of him like a legend.
  
 The 2 links below are related and mention someone with the same
 name.Is this him ?
  
 http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id59.htm
  
 http://www.angelfire.com/mo/crimeinc/page3.html
  
 If so, the article says he lives in Bourne, Texas ( where ever that is )
  
  
  
 Somebody could write a nice article for the Texas Caver about
 Bill Helmer.   Right ?
  
 David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

In the late 1950's when I first became interested in caving, I enjoyed seeing 
Helmer's clever Texas Caver covers and other art work. I don't have them now 
but they were priceless. Hey Carl, do you think he could really be living in 
Boerne?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Joe Pearce mentioned Bill Helmer.That is a name I haven't heard spoke of 
 in
 caving circles in a while.When I was a newbie, sitting around the 
 campfire in
 Carta Valley, or somewhere out west, cavers spoke of him like a legend.
 
 The 2 links below are related and mention someone with the same
 name.Is this him ?
 
 http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id59.htm
 
 http://www.angelfire.com/mo/crimeinc/page3.html
 
 If so, the article says he lives in Bourne, Texas ( where ever that is )
 
 
 
 Somebody could write a nice article for the Texas Caver about
 Bill Helmer.   Right ?
 
 David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] mystery photo

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Don't know who he is but the caver on the left has a most familiar face. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 19, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Can anybody identify the people (at least the gringo cavers) in this photo? 
 It is on Terry Raines's web site at http://amcs.org/history.html, but it 
 doesn't seem to go with the paragraph below it.
 
 While I'm at it, I could swear I've seen a published map of Sótano de 
 Huitzmolotitla, San Luis Potosí, but I have no idea where. ???
 
 Personal responses can not be sent by clicking reply. -- Mixon
 gecfafgd.jpg
 
 
 Do you really think it is weakness to yield to temptation? There are terrible 
 temptations that require strength and courage to yield to.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Devil's Sinkhole R.I.P.

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Andy and Bill, 
Andy, you are correct in that due to liability exposure and those who 
disrespect the land and landowners, in most cases, what was, ain't no mo.
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 16, 2014, at 8:10 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Bill, in case you didn't notice, landowner attitudes have changed 
 dramatically since the 1950's.   Rather than speculate, why don't you 
 consider the access situation on other properties in the area and compare 
 them to the gilded age of caving?  
 
 
 Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
 700 Billie Brooks Drive
 Driftwood, Texas 78619
 (512) 799-1095
 a...@gluesenkamp.com
 
 
 On Friday, September 12, 2014 9:57 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 
 While Gluesenkamp won't remember it, Devil's Sinkhole did just fine  
 without management, which always seems to mean managing cavers. And  
 access was open even to scientists, although that cuts no mustard with  
 me. Scientists are not a privileged class of people, and their claim  
 to a resource is no more important than anybody else's. This includes  
 archaeologists, paleontologists, geologists, and biologists. (And the  
 physicists I used to work with, too, of course. But at least  
 physicists don't generally claim special or exclusive access to  
 caves.) A new private owner _might_ have closed the cave, but at least  
 private owners eventually sell or die. A government owner was certain  
 to severely restrict it, and governments, at least outside the Middle  
 East, tend to live longer than people. Governments are suckers for  
 special interests more than most private owners are--witness the  
 difference in access between government-owned and privately owned  
 caves in the southeastern US these days. They also, for some reason,  
 tend to worry more about allowing people to hurt themselves. Cavers  
 can and have foolishly promoted government acquisition or management  
 of a cave as a protection measure only to find themselves locked out.  
 I don't know that cavers had anything to do with the state's buying  
 Devil's Sinkhole. I'd like to think not.
 
 -- Mixon
 
 Do you really think it is weakness to yield to temptation? There are  
 terrible temptations that require strength and courage to yield to.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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[Texascavers] Memories from an old timer. K

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I might be an Old Timer if age has anything to do with it. My first wild cave 
was Frio Bat Cave near Concan. Been there numerous times but the first was 1953 
at age 18. I have several great pictures of bats roosting so thickly you cannot 
see the wall. They were taken from four feet away. I also assisted Jimmy Walker 
when he took a great time exposure of the now non existent old wooden elevated 
tracks for the steel ore car used to haul the guano from the cave. The tracks 
may have been the ones used during The Civil War when mining the guano to 
extract the saltpeter for the manufacture of gunpowder. A new adventure for a 
city boy who always loved such things. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:29 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 I want to be a general.
 
 On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jon via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 It appears that  Ellie will have to build a matrix to rank and rate all of 
 the variables to determine this.
 
 
 On Friday, September 12, 2014 12:55 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 
 I was on the registration sheet at Luckenbach but no one saw me cause I was 
 in the bar with Hondo and Strickland.
 
 On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Jon Cradit via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 Maybe an old timer is someone that attended the first TOTR or at least had 
 the choice to attend? 
  
  
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Bill Bentley via Texascavers
 Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:50 AM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration Prices
  
 What constitutes an Old Timer qualification?
 
 On 9/12/2014 11:29 AM, Ellie Watson via Texascavers wrote:
  TCR Registration Prices:
  
 Adult - $25.00
 Child - $15.00
 Family - $80.00
 Old timer - $15.00
  
 Registration gets you a wristband, meal, beverages and a chance at door 
 prizes.
  
 Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/events/529777467143718/
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 -- 
 Bill Bentley
 ca...@caver.net
 
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 -- 
 Charlie Loving
 
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 -- 
 Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Devil's Sinkhole R.I.P.

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Yes, the sinkhole did just fine without management when owned by rancher 
brothers. They gave me and two buddies permission to enter it in the summer of 
1955. We had an exciting trip exploring the cave after climbing down the 
existent 165 foot steel cable ladder which terminated about 15 feet down the 
slope from the top of the breakdown. I took a picture of the ladder from the 
bottom which is similar to the one taken by Jimmy Walker of the same ladder In 
1952. Jimmy's picture with Cavers on rope is in Carl Kunath's 50 Years Of 
Texas Caving. I treasure mine and have it framed. More nostalgia from some of 
the best times of my life. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 12, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 While Gluesenkamp won't remember it, Devil's Sinkhole did just fine without 
 management, which always seems to mean managing cavers. And access was open 
 even to scientists, although that cuts no mustard with me. Scientists are not 
 a privileged class of people, and their claim to a resource is no more 
 important than anybody else's. This includes archaeologists, paleontologists, 
 geologists, and biologists. (And the physicists I used to work with, too, of 
 course. But at least physicists don't generally claim special or exclusive 
 access to caves.) A new private owner _might_ have closed the cave, but at 
 least private owners eventually sell or die. A government owner was certain 
 to severely restrict it, and governments, at least outside the Middle East, 
 tend to live longer than people. Governments are suckers for special 
 interests more than most private owners are--witness the difference in access 
 between government-owned and privately owned caves in the southeastern US 
 these days. They also, for some reason, tend to worry more about allowing 
 people to hurt themselves. Cavers can and have foolishly promoted government 
 acquisition or management of a cave as a protection measure only to find 
 themselves locked out. I don't know that cavers had anything to do with the 
 state's buying Devil's Sinkhole. I'd like to think not.
 -- Mixon
 
 Do you really think it is weakness to yield to temptation? There are terrible 
 temptations that require strength and courage to yield to.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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