[Texascavers] Maya Cave Podcast
Here is a National Geographic podcast from 2019 about a major Maya archaeological cave discovery at < https://www.nationalgeographic.com/podcasts/overheard/article/episode-4-cave-of-the-jaguar-god>. It's pretty well done. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] New book, Caving With Mitch
I also did not see any AMCS publications for sale at the NSS Convenbtion. There isn't anything new, though; as far as I know there hasn't been an Activities Newsletter since No. 42 (2019). :-( Mark On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:01 AM Bill Steele wrote: > Hola Bill, > > I printed a copy and am reading it. Wow, in the middle of page 14 Ab > tells about meeting and being befriended by Bertha Semple. I knew her. In > the fall of 1971 she and her husband, John, who lived across the road from > Edward James’ Los Pozos, took me in and I stayed about a month with them. > She sort of mothered me. I have some stories. > > Bill Steele > > P.S. I went to the NSS Convention in South Dakota last month. I visited > every vendor and saw no evidence of AMCS pubs for sale. Maybe I missed > them. > > On Jun 30, 2022, at 12:12 AM, William R. Elliott > wrote: > > *New book, Caving with Mitch* > > > > Announcing the publication of a new book, *Caving with Mitch**, *by *Francis > E. Abernethy**. *The 80-page book with color covers is available as a *free > pdf* to download at *https://cavelife.info/cuevashistoricas*/ > <https://cavelife.info/cuevashistoricas/> > > > > *Caving with Mitch* is the true and humorous adventure story of three > great friends, Francis E. Abernethy (“Ab”), Robert W. Mitchell (“Mitch” or > “Bob”), and William L. Rhodes (“Dusty”). They were active at the beginning > of American caving in Mexico. Only Dusty survives today. > > > > You will read about their famous trip to Sótano de Huitzmolotitla in 1960, > where they descended the 344 ft. (105 m) pit on a cable winch that they > engineered. This was before single rope technique was adopted by most > cavers. Their methods improved as they made more research trips. From 1959 > until 1977 they periodically explored caves, canyons, natural history, > biology, Mexican culture, and made many friends. They developed a deep love > for Mexico and Belize. > > > > They discovered the first species of blind scorpion in Mexico, and many > other species new to science. They collected blind cavefishes (*Astyanax*), > which led to important scientific publications. > > > > They had some hairy experiences. They rode a freight train to Copper > Canyon, their jeeps chained to a flatbed car, sitting on boxcars and taking > photos—until they saw a low railroad tunnel coming! Then there was the > driverless jeep that tried to pass them on the highway! > > > > I am the editor and publisher of the book, which is the first number of > *Cuevas > Históricas* (Historic Caves) on my website https://cavelife.info/*. *It > will be followed by other works about caves, especially lost or forgotten > cave maps and descriptions that have been rescued from oblivion. > > > > The pdf is free and copyrighted. A run of *50 to 100* *printed books* > will be for sale from now *until July 15, 2022*, followed by the printing > and mailout. The books will be perfect bound with glossy covers and a > spine. I am collaborating in this publishing project with Linda Mitchell, > Bob’s widow, Sharon Mitchell, Bob’s daughter, and Dusty Rhodes. > > > > To order one or more printed books, please contact Linda Mitchell at > lindaglassmitch...@gmail.com and copy me at speodes...@gmail.com. Payment > will be by Venmo or PayPal to Linda’s email, no checks or cash. Include > your full name, street address, email, and phone with your email order. You > will send the payment at $20 per book, and we will acknowledge your order. > Your purchase includes media mail postage to the 48 contiguous US states. > You must pay to reserve a book. Please contact Linda about the additional > mailing cost for addresses outside the lower 48 states. > > > > Sincerely, > > *William R. (Bill) Elliott* > > 30105 Briarcrest Court > > Georgetown, Texas 78628 > > *speodes...@gmail.com * > > 573-291-5093 cell > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Dinosaur Cave
A really interesting, descriptive, and well written trip report. Great for us temporary shut-ins! Mark From: Marvin Miller Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 5:34 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Dinosaur Cave Good name. We will keep it! On Sun, Jun 5, 2022, 1:29 PM Kurt Menking wrote: Flaco in Spanish is skinny. Team skinny On Sun, Jun 5, 2022, 12:06 PM Marvin Miller wrote: team flaco? I don't get the reference. On Sun, Jun 5, 2022, 8:15 AM Kurt Menking wrote: Great trip. Congrats to team flaco. On Sat, Jun 4, 2022, 9:14 PM Marvin Miller wrote: Kelsey Dennis and Mio Kitano joined me today to finish up a little bit of muddy survey and to push leads in Dinosaur Cave. Dinosaur Cave is a 642 meter-long cave in Comal County. The survey went about 2 meters down a hole that had been too tight for the previous survey team. Both Kelsey and Mio have slight figures ideal for these kinds of leads. The next survey shot was 3 meters through a muddy trough into a small terminal room with some drops falling from the ceiling. The drops had been a trickle when I had first seen this room last year. The room isn't really terminal because there is a slot in the floor that could be enlarged to get down to the next little space 2 meters below but then there is another, tighter constriction. There is no airflow so this is not a high priority lead. We struggled out of these muddy confines and headed back towards the entrance till we stopped at a hole that dropped down in the middle of the passage. This hole leads to a bit of walking passage in the breakdown that makes up the floor and fills the lower part of the main passage. 10 meters along the breakdown passage a small hole in the floor drops down into a small room, the floor of which slopes further down to the opening of a small, horizontal tube in bedrock. The tube is straight and clean-washed and can be seen to extend at least 5 meters. The tube is intimidating (to me, at least) because it looks barely larger than body-sized. Once you get into it there is actually a little more space than that, and only one spot where you are scraping floor and ceiling. At about the 5-meter mark you encounter a cross-joint which provides some relief, and immediately after that the floor drops down into a fissure and then the passage widens, opens up to the right, and drops over a ledge into a small room. Bennett Lee pushed this passage and discovered this room. A small trickle of water falls from a too-small tube in one wall. At floor level a duck under the ceiling leads to a short 5-meter section of passage, at the end of which was today's objective. At that point the floor trends slightly down and the ceiling comes down to within 20 cm of the floor, which is clean-washed from that point. I had tried to cram myself into this lead when Bennett, Greg Mosier, and I surveyed the preceding passage but it was a no-go. I couldn't even get far enough to see around the near corner. Kelsey is a skinny girl and had no problem with it. There is a pool in the floor just after it gets tight so she had to consider whether she wanted to get wet, but in the end she committed to it and soon disappeared around the corner. She kept a running commentary and informed us that just ahead it was going to open up to walking - or at least stoop-walking height. She was soon there and continued, sometimes in several cm of water. There was another short constriction to be passed and then the passage dimensions resumed. She had to stop, probably about 20 to 25 meters along, due to a boulder that was filling the passage. She could see the passage continuing past the boulder. Her assessment was that it could probably be broken up with a sledge or rolled out of the way. There is good airflow coming out of this passage, really the only airflow we have seen anywhere in Dinosaur Cave. When Kelsey came back out, excited by her discovery, we set to work on the other passage that exits here, stacked almost right on top of the water crawl below. The problem with this one was that it was almost filled with a 2 meter-long, 1 meter-wide slab of breakdown. It wasn't very thick so we had some hope that we could break it up somehow. We took turns beating on the near end, and some bits broke off easily, but then it got hard. I decided it was time to employ the hammer drill and straws. I had barely drilled 4 cm into the rock when my bit got stuck and would not move. The only way to rescue it was to beat on the rock some more. I started in on that and suddenly the rock broke across its width about half-a-meter back. This large chunk fell to the ground in front of the lower passage, and the remainder of the slab started to slide down what must have been a slight slope towards us! Fortunately, it stopped moving after 10 or 15 cm. We then had a discussion that if a surv
[Texascavers] Skulls in Mexican Cave
The New York Times has an article about a cave in Chiapas with 150 human skulls inside: < https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/world/americas/mexico-skulls-cave.html>. They make it sound like this is a relatively rare discovery, but we have found many caves all over Mexico with human remains inside, especially in Oaxaca. Several have been reported to and investigated by Mexican archaeologists. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Veryovkina Cave
Indeed, the bottom of Veryovkina is hardly the closest humans have been to the center of the earth. In addition to deep mines, ocean dives by bathyspheres, etc. have been to over 6.5 miles down in the Mariana Trench. That guy didn't do his homework. Mark Minton On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:24 PM Evatt wrote: > Maybe. > > “*AngloGold Ashanti's Mponeng gold mine*, located south-west of > Johannesburg in South Africa, is currently the deepest mine in the world. > The operating depth at Mponeng mine ranged from between 3.16km to 3.84km > below the surface by the end of 2018.Jun 11, 2019” > > I’ll let you do the latitude comparison... > > Jim > *From:* Lee H. Skinner > *Sent:* April 27, 2022 12:14 PM > *To:* SWR >> New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Veryovkina Cave > > This article claims that the bottom of Veryovkina Cave is the closest > point (that humans have been) to the center of the Earth, ignoring > arguments of entrance altitude and entrance latitude (the Poles are closer > to the Earth's center than the Equator by fourteen miles). --Lee > > The Veryovkina (or Verëvkina) Cave > <https://fantasticfossils.quora.com/The-Veryovkina-or-Ver%C3%ABvkina-Cave> > > the closest point to the center of the Earth. > Snip ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Important carbide lamp collection for sale
My Tecate beer can lamp, as well as Logan's can lamp, are made from steel cans, which gives some idea of how old they are. Steel cans were pretty much phased out in favor of aluminum in the 1970s - 1980s, so they're likely at least 40 -50 years old. Mark On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 8:44 PM Mark Minton wrote: > Bill, > > Thanks for the interesting photos and descriptions of Logan's carbide > lamps. He has some unusual items in there. The artisan kerosene lamp in > batch 15 caught my eye. I have a similar lamp made from a Tecate can with > the same type of bottle-cap wick holder. (Ironic since the can wouldn't > have had a cap!) Mine doesn't have a reflector. I don't remember where/when > I got it; probably Valles or Tehuacán in the 70s or 80s. Photo attached. > > Mark Minton > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 1:42 PM William R. Elliott > wrote: > >> *Important carbide lamp collection for sale* >> >> The LM Collection of carbide lamps will be for sale starting April 19, >> 2022. This is the largest collection of carbide lamps you’ll probably ever >> see. >> >> Even if you don’t plan to buy anything, Texas cavers are invited to see >> online photos and a brief video of this diverse collection. There are 66 >> lamps and many parts offered for sale (12 lamps were previously sold to a >> collector). Now the remaining lamps are offered to cavers for two weeks, >> then they will be sold on eBay. >> >> >> >> The owner, long-time Austin caver Logan McNatt (retired), collected these >> lamps over 50 years. Logan asks you not to contact him about his lamps. He >> asked me, William R. (Bill) Elliott, to be his exclusive representative. I >> thank Pam Lynn, Joe Sumbera and Gayle Unruh for helping me catalog Logan’s >> lamps (we did this for free; the proceeds will go to Logan and his family.) >> > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents :
Thanks, Bill. I do have a copy of Bulletin 26, and after I sent my email I looked up Subterráneo. I should have done that before sending my message. For some reason that name hadn't stuck with me. Mark On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:26 AM William R. Elliott wrote: > Cueva del Subterráneo is the most studied of the three Micos caves in the > Micos or Río Subterráneo Area, located 15 km west of Ciudad Valles, San > Luis Potosí, in the small Sierra de San Dieguito, just west of Sierra la > Colmena. > > The map was published in 2018: http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/3772.pdf > > > It was published in AMCS Bulletin 26, which you can still buy at the AMCS > website. > > Elliott, William R. 2018. The *Astyanax* Caves of Mexico. Cavefishes of > Tamaulipas, San Luis Potosí, and Guerrero. Association for Mexican Cave > Studies, Bulletin 26. Austin, Texas. 326 pp. > > Or you can download the large pdf at my website at > https://cavelife.info/pdf/pdf.htm > > From my book: > > "Cueva del Río Subterráneo is about 500 m long, the largest cave in the > Micos Area. The lost cave survey of 1971 was found in 2017... The cave is > the original site of the “Micosfish” of Wilkens and Burns 1972, an evolving > population with reduced eyes and pigment, which hybridizes with surface > fishes in two of the three inhabited pools." > > Micos apparently is a different stock of fish from the main El Abra > Region, as determined by genomic studies. > > *William R. (Bill) Elliott* > > 30105 Briarcrest Court > > Georgetown, Texas 78628 > > *speodes...@gmail.com * > > 573-291-5093 cell > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:30 AM Mark Minton > wrote: > >> Very interesting. I've heard of most of the caves they mentioned, but not >> Subterráneo. >> Anyone know about that cave? >> >> Mark Minton >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 3:58 AM Jerry wrote: >> >>> Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents >>> The Mexican tetra has evolved to live in a number of dark caves – and >>> now we know that the fish in each cave use clicks to communicate in >>> distinct ways >>> >>> >>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2316002-blind-mexican-cave-fish-are-developing-cave-specific-accents/ >>> >>> Jerry Atkinson >>> >> ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents :
Thanks, Andy. Mark On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:06 AM Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I was just there last month. Cueva Rio Subterraneo is a few KM NE of > Rascon, SLP, not far from Micos. It is adjacent to Cueva los Otates. > Here's a pic of a surface fish trying to school with a cavefish in Pool 1, > CRS. > > Andrew. Gluesenkamp, PhD > 700 Billie Brooks Lane > Driftwood, Texas 78619 > (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com > > On Friday, April 15, 2022, 08:30:29 AM CDT, Mark Minton < > mamintonca...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Very interesting. I've heard of most of the caves they mentioned, but not > Subterráneo. > Anyone know about that cave? > > Mark Minton > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 3:58 AM Jerry wrote: > > Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents > The Mexican tetra has evolved to live in a number of dark caves – and now > we know that the fish in each cave use clicks to communicate in distinct > ways > > > https://www.newscientist.com/article/2316002-blind-mexican-cave-fish-are-developing-cave-specific-accents/ > > Jerry Atkinson > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents :
Very interesting. I've heard of most of the caves they mentioned, but not Subterráneo. Anyone know about that cave? Mark Minton On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 3:58 AM Jerry wrote: > Blind Mexican cave fish are developing cave-specific accents > The Mexican tetra has evolved to live in a number of dark caves – and now > we know that the fish in each cave use clicks to communicate in distinct > ways > > > https://www.newscientist.com/article/2316002-blind-mexican-cave-fish-are-developing-cave-specific-accents/ > > Jerry Atkinson > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] repair for fiberglass tape
If you make the repair using duct tape or something similar, consider putting in a couple of stitches with a sewing awl. That will go a long way toward preventing the repair from pulling apart. Alternatively, I've just used the tape starting at the 2-meter mark, or whatever, and subtracting 2 m from every shot. Many modern data reduction programs even have a built-in provision for such corrections, just as they do for compass corrections. Although of course this is a possible source of error if someone does it wrong. Better yet, get a DistoX and forget about tapes, compasses and clinometers once and for all. Even a simple unmodified Disto would be a cheap and better alternative to a tape under most circumstances. Mark Minton On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 6:14 PM Fofo wrote: > If you already have some Tear-Aid tape at home, I would give it a try (and > if you haven't tried it, it's a good one to keep around for patching tents, > down sleeping bags or jackets, etc). > > Type A is general purpose and type B is for vinyl. > > - Fofo > > El mar. 29, 2022, a la(s) 15:07, Jim Kennedy > escribió: > > Or buy a brand new tape from Harbor Freight Tools for $13. > > > https://www.harborfreight.com/100-ft-x-12-in-open-reel-measuring-tape-62411.html > > Crash > > Mobile email from my iPhone > > On Mar 29, 2022, at 4:51 PM, Diana Tomchick < > diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > > Or you can buy a replacement tape for your reel from Forestry Supplies > for less than $20. > > https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/ViewItem.php?itemnum=39977 > > Diana > > On Mar 29, 2022, at 4:03 PM, Jon wrote: > > I'm in need of some technical help from the most experienced group I know > in the use and maintenance of fiberglass tape measures. > I have a 100' open reel that got broken at about the one-meter mark. Its > a ragged break but no missing pieces, it fits back together like a puzzle > piece. > Question: > How best to reattach the two pieces? Some type of glue with a strip > acting as a splint? > Who knows what's been tried? > I have tried to contact several tape measure companies but I have had no > luck with them giving me any help. > > Jon > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Vampire Bat Immigration
One should be careful when sleeping in the open air in vampire bat country. They apparently are known to feed on exposed extremities like toes. Bummer if they make it to Texas, or even Bustamante. They used to be found only further south. Mark Minton On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 7:41 PM Bob West wrote: > From Texas A&M AgriLife Extension through my County Agriculural Extension > Agent... > > I'll never forget my first encounter with vampire bat shit (and looking up > to see the bats) while caving in the Xilitla area of Mexico many moons ago. > > Vampire bats could move into Texas > Vampire bats are mainly found in Mexico and Central and South America, but > their habitat has been expanding north into the U.S. over the past few > years. > In Mexico, vampire bats cause about $47 million a year in damages through > livestock predation and public health risk concerns. The warm-blooded > flying mammals are particularly attracted to cattle, according to Dr. > Joanne Maki, a rabies expert and Technical Director for the North American > Veterinary Public Health group at Boehringer Ingelheim Animal Health. > It also feeds on other livestock, but primarily cattle, and those animals > suffer because of the blood meals being taken. Not only are those animals > at risk for potentially having rabies transmitted by the bite of a vampire > bat, but due to the blood meal the vampire bat consumes, it stresses the > cattle or stresses the horse, and you see a decrease in that animal’s > production levels. > > Since the vampire bat has been detected as close as 35-40 miles south of > the Texas-Mexico border, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and > other governmental agencies have increased surveillance. > Feedlots, farms and wild animal habitats are being surveyed for signs of > vampire bat feeding. > If someone has an animal with an atypical bite wound, such as on the ears > or neck or withers, where vampire bats feed, [USDA’s] Wildlife Services > wants to know about it. The Texas Department of State Health Services > (DSHS) should also have more information about the surveillance program, > awareness and resources for people interested in learning more. > The rabies case-reporting system in Texas is linked with federal > information, which helps equip the Lone Star State to handle a potential > vampire bat spread. > Signs and symptoms of rabies in animals > In animals, rabies manifests in one of two forms: furious and paralytic. > Maki noted the form is influenced by the animal species. > Dogs and cats quite often get the furious form of rabies, the typical > thing we think of when we think ‘rabid animal.’ Foxes can also become very > aggressive, lose their fear of humans and attack, and bite them. “But the > other form, paralytic or ‘dumb,’ is when the rabies virus basically causes > paralysis in an animal, and they’re showing neurological symptoms like > staggering or weaving around during the daytime when that wildlife species > would normally be out only at night. > Other animals with paralytic rabies may hide under vehicles or in sheds or > other places around homes and businesses because they’re sick and have lost > their innate sense of self-preservation. Maki said this form can be even > more dangerous to humans because people may think the animal needs help and > approach it. > Cattle often get the paralytic form. But since there are a lot of > different diseases that can cause neurological symptoms in livestock, we > want to be sure livestock owners are aware that rabies may be the issue. > Recumbency, not being able to rise, weakness in the hind legs, stumbling, > hitting the head on a fence—those are not normal behaviors for a cow. > Livestock producers should associate these signs with rabies, especially in > unvaccinated animals or those with lapsed vaccinations, so they do not end > up exposing themselves while handling that sick animal. > It is advised ranchers to contact a veterinarian immediately if they > notice livestock exhibiting these symptoms. Veterinarians are best > qualified to make preliminary differential diagnoses between rabies or > other issues while handling the animal safely. > If you’re bitten and the animal is rabid, the post-exposure prophylaxis is > expensive. The technology has changed and the number of doses of vaccine > you would receive are not as plentiful or as painful in the past, but it’s > still expensive. > Ecologists and other scientists are working on both sides of the border to > monitor vampire bats and provide timely information. > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: [Pajarito Grotto] Fw: [Sandia Grotto]: Underground comparison video
That's a good point, George, although depth below the entrance is a practical measure for cavers because that is how far they actually travel, no matter how far below the surface they are. I disagree with Mary, though. I think they do intend to portray how far below ground the deep caves and mines are, because they present them on a scale starting with the shallowest spaces and progressing to the deepest, always moving deeper into the earth. That's true for boreholes and wells, but not for other underground spaces with large lateral extents. They aren't really comparable in that way. Mark On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 1:34 PM George Veni wrote: > For the reasons Mark described, I like the term “vertical extent” instead > of depth. I’ve heard people argue loudly that Kazamura is NOT over 1,000 m > deep, but no one can deny that it has a vertical extent of more than 1,000 > m. > > > > George > > > > > > George Veni, PhD > > Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) > > and > > President, International Union of Speleology (UIS) > > > > *NCKRI address (primary)* > > 400-1 Cascades Avenue > > Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA > > Office: +575-887-5517 > > Mobile: +210-863-5919 > > Fax: +575-887-5523 > > gv...@nckri.org > > www.nckri.org > > > > *UIS address* > > Titov trg 2 > > Postojna, 6230 Slovenia > > www.uis-speleo.org > > www.iyck2021.org > > > > *From:* 'Mary Thiesse' via Southwestern Cavers of the National > Speleological Society > *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:07 AM > *To:* John Cochran ; Mark Minton < > mamintonca...@gmail.com> > *Cc:* pajaritogro...@googlegroups.com; Southwestern Cavers of the > National Speleological Society ; Sandia > Grotto < > sandia-grotto-of-the-national-speleological-soci...@googlegroups.com>; > texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* [SWR CAVERS] Re: [Pajarito Grotto] Fw: [Sandia Grotto]: > Underground comparison video > > > > Hi all, > > > > I don’t think this video was meant to be an exacting measurement but > simply a relative reference for different depths of caves, mines etc. > according to claimed depth of said cave, mine….. > > > > Mary > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 10:49 AM, John Cochran > wrote: > > that was worth watching > > > > but they missed our very own WIPP at ~ -655 m > > > > cheers > > John > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 8:25 AM Mark Minton > wrote: > > Actually, several of the caves (and probably some of the mines) are > misrepresented. The bottoms of very few deep caves are as far below the > surface directly above as their depth indicates, because caves don't go > straight down and the surface also goes up and down. Many deep caves have > entrances high on a mountain side and passages that run downslope. Kazumura > is an extreme example, but other deep caves like Huautla and Cheve are > similar. The surface above the deep point is often hundreds of meters lower > than at the entrance. One example I know of that really is as far below the > surface as its depth indicates is Ocotempa in Mexico. It is over 1000 m > deep and goes down like a corkscrew. The bottom is only 50 m offset from > the entrance, although the passage does wander farther away partway down > before turning back at the end. > > > > A related question is how deep you are in a cave whose entrance is at the > bottom of a cliff. As soon as you go inside, the surface is way above, even > if the cave is horizontal. Of course, cave depth below the surface isn't as > meaningful as how far you have to travel to get to the bottom. That's where > all the work is. > > > > Mark Minton > > > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 5:40 PM John Lyles wrote: > > Its a cool animated video. Even up to date. Kazumura Cave is the only > misrepresentation, as the cave is actually not so deep underground, but > goes a long distance down flow down the mountain. > > jtml > > On 2/12/22 3:21 PM, 'Mary Thiesse' via Pajarito Grotto wrote: > > Lee Skinner shared this earlier and I thought I would pass it on to > Pajarito grotto as well. Interesting depth comparisons. > > > > Mary > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > Begin forwarded message: > > On Saturday, February 12, 2022, 11:45 AM, Lee H. Skinner > wrote: > > An interesting video about underground places -- lots of caves mentioned. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBYk2FO5QE > > > > Lee > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [Pajarito Grotto] Fw: [Sandia Grotto]: Underground comparison video
Actually, several of the caves (and probably some of the mines) are misrepresented. The bottoms of very few deep caves are as far below the surface directly above as their depth indicates, because caves don't go straight down and the surface also goes up and down. Many deep caves have entrances high on a mountain side and passages that run downslope. Kazumura is an extreme example, but other deep caves like Huautla and Cheve are similar. The surface above the deep point is often hundreds of meters lower than at the entrance. One example I know of that really is as far below the surface as its depth indicates is Ocotempa in Mexico. It is over 1000 m deep and goes down like a corkscrew. The bottom is only 50 m offset from the entrance, although the passage does wander farther away partway down before turning back at the end. A related question is how deep you are in a cave whose entrance is at the bottom of a cliff. As soon as you go inside, the surface is way above, even if the cave is horizontal. Of course, cave depth below the surface isn't as meaningful as how far you have to travel to get to the bottom. That's where all the work is. Mark Minton On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 5:40 PM John Lyles wrote: > Its a cool animated video. Even up to date. Kazumura Cave is the only > misrepresentation, as the cave is actually not so deep underground, but > goes a long distance down flow down the mountain. > > jtml > On 2/12/22 3:21 PM, 'Mary Thiesse' via Pajarito Grotto wrote: > > Lee Skinner shared this earlier and I thought I would pass it on to > Pajarito grotto as well. Interesting depth comparisons. > > Mary > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> > > Begin forwarded message: > > On Saturday, February 12, 2022, 11:45 AM, Lee H. Skinner > wrote: > > An interesting video about underground places -- lots of caves mentioned. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBYk2FO5QE > > Lee > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited
We haven't found the DistoX2 to be particularly vulnerable to flooding. They are water resistant, and we carry them in the same 1015 Pelican box that the BRIC4 is built in, so they're only out when actually taking a shot. We've used them extensively in Warm River Cave in Virginia, which is similar to Honey Creek in terms of being wet. I recently got a prototype waterproof housing for the DistoX2 to test, but haven't tried it yet. It will supposedly allow the Disto to be operated while still inside the housing. Of course, any compass will have to be recalibrated when changing from one location to another that is significantly different magnetically, but in practice DistoX2s seem to keep calibration over relatively long distances. Mine has stayed within spec (+/- 2 degrees) when traveling between Carlsbad, NM, Oaxaca, Mexico, and Virginia / West Virginia. Nevertheless we typically recalibrate at the beginning of a project in a new area, just to be sure. My main complaint about the BRIC4 is the cost. It's $200 more than a DistoX2, although of course the latter are no longer being made. :-( Mark Minton On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Diana Tomchick < diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote: > You may be able to equal the results of the Disto-X2 with the new BRIC4, > yet find it more useful because you don’t have to worry about the BRIC4 > dying when it is accidentally dropped into a pool of water. See Aaron > Bird’s evaluation (from the 2021 NSS Convention) of the BRIC4 as a cave > survey device (he compares it to the Disto-X2). > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCi35qMwDQI > > I’ve found the BRIC4 is relatively easy to calibrate compared to the > Disto-X2, but it needs to be re-calibrated when you move to different > locations due to local magnetic field changes. Fortunately it tells you > (through it’s error message code) that’s the problem, and re-calibration is > done internally on the device so you can do it prior to a day of cave > survey. > > https://ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?#declination > > Diana > > On Feb 10, 2022, at 5:17 PM, Mark Minton wrote: > > If your accuracy was less than 1%, I think you had a problem! ;-) > > Brunton accuracy was pretty good, but you can't beat properly calibrated > Disto-X2s with front and backsights. I've done several surveys with less > than 0.5% loop-closure error, and a couple of large loops (over 2000 feet) > had 0.1% error! > > Mark Minton > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 5:58 PM Reddell, James R < > jreddell.ca...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote: > >> I mapped all of Caverns of Sonora up to the pit with a >> Brunton on a tripod and we consistently got less than 1% >> accuracy in short and long loops. I also got very good accuracy >> in some long surveys in Yucatan caves. >> >> James >> >> -- >> *From:* Texascavers on behalf of >> speodes...@gmail.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 4:40 PM >> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com >> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited >> >> Thanks for leveling with us, Dwight. >> >> Doing the inclinations was hard going handheld. All I ever owned were two >> Army Bruntons. Suuntos were a big change! >> >> And thanks to Carl for his good article. >> >> William R. (Bill) Elliott >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 10, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Dwight Deal wrote: >> >> Carl Kunath wrote an excellent historical article on the use of the old >> Brunton compass in cave surveying. Unfortunately, the major source of >> error was not clearly noted. >> >> That error is not having the Brunton as near perfectly level as possible >> when you make the sighting. A tripod helps if you pay attention, but it is >> possible to make accurate sights hand-held as well. >> >> I taught Herb Conn how to survey with a Brunton in 1959, and in many >> miles of hand-held Jewel Cave survey loops our error was consistently on >> the order of ½ of 1%. Keeping it level was the key. Considerable >> contortions were sometimes required of the surveyor, however. >> >> DirtDoc >> > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited
James, I was poking fun at you. I think you meant your error was less than 1%, not your accuracy. :-) Mark On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 6:20 PM Reddell, James R < jreddell.ca...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote: > I may be in error, and they may have been better than that. > That was a very long time ago. > > James > -- > *From:* Texascavers on behalf of > Mark Minton > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 5:17 PM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited > > If your accuracy was less than 1%, I think you had a problem! ;-) > > Brunton accuracy was pretty good, but you can't beat properly calibrated > Disto-X2s with front and backsights. I've done several surveys with less > than 0.5% loop-closure error, and a couple of large loops (over 2000 feet) > had 0.1% error! > > Mark Minton > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 5:58 PM Reddell, James R < > jreddell.ca...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote: > > I mapped all of Caverns of Sonora up to the pit with a > Brunton on a tripod and we consistently got less than 1% > accuracy in short and long loops. I also got very good accuracy > in some long surveys in Yucatan caves. > > James > > -- > *From:* Texascavers on behalf of > speodes...@gmail.com > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 4:40 PM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited > > Thanks for leveling with us, Dwight. > > Doing the inclinations was hard going handheld. All I ever owned were two > Army Bruntons. Suuntos were a big change! > > And thanks to Carl for his good article. > > William R. (Bill) Elliott > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 10, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Dwight Deal wrote: > > Carl Kunath wrote an excellent historical article on the use of the old > Brunton compass in cave surveying. Unfortunately, the major source of > error was not clearly noted. > > That error is not having the Brunton as near perfectly level as possible > when you make the sighting. A tripod helps if you pay attention, but it is > possible to make accurate sights hand-held as well. > > I taught Herb Conn how to survey with a Brunton in 1959, and in many miles > of hand-held Jewel Cave survey loops our error was consistently on the > order of ½ of 1%. Keeping it level was the key. Considerable contortions > were sometimes required of the surveyor, however. > > DirtDoc > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited
If your accuracy was less than 1%, I think you had a problem! ;-) Brunton accuracy was pretty good, but you can't beat properly calibrated Disto-X2s with front and backsights. I've done several surveys with less than 0.5% loop-closure error, and a couple of large loops (over 2000 feet) had 0.1% error! Mark Minton On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 5:58 PM Reddell, James R < jreddell.ca...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote: > I mapped all of Caverns of Sonora up to the pit with a > Brunton on a tripod and we consistently got less than 1% > accuracy in short and long loops. I also got very good accuracy > in some long surveys in Yucatan caves. > > James > > -- > *From:* Texascavers on behalf of > speodes...@gmail.com > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 4:40 PM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Brunton Revisited > > Thanks for leveling with us, Dwight. > > Doing the inclinations was hard going handheld. All I ever owned were two > Army Bruntons. Suuntos were a big change! > > And thanks to Carl for his good article. > > William R. (Bill) Elliott > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 10, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Dwight Deal wrote: > > Carl Kunath wrote an excellent historical article on the use of the old > Brunton compass in cave surveying. Unfortunately, the major source of > error was not clearly noted. > > That error is not having the Brunton as near perfectly level as possible > when you make the sighting. A tripod helps if you pay attention, but it is > possible to make accurate sights hand-held as well. > > I taught Herb Conn how to survey with a Brunton in 1959, and in many miles > of hand-held Jewel Cave survey loops our error was consistently on the > order of ½ of 1%. Keeping it level was the key. Considerable contortions > were sometimes required of the surveyor, however. > > DirtDoc > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Volunteer Opportunities for Texas Hydro Geo Workshop- April 1-3
Geary: I had planned on volunteering for this, but it turns out that is a HCSNA karst project weekend. Having worked there for several years as a volunteer and encouraging Marvin to take on that additional responsibility a couple years ago, I feel I need to make that event my first priority. Maybe next year! Mark Ross From: Geary Schindel Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 12:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com ; Kori Dunaway (koriduna...@yahoo.com) ; Geary Schindel Subject: [Texascavers] Volunteer Opportunities for Texas Hydro Geo Workshop- April 1-3 Folks, We're working on the 7th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop and wanted to ask for volunteers to help staff the event and also help with modules. The workshop is a 501c3 corporation. So, if you're not familiar with the Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, go to the web page and take a look. This will be the 7th workshop we've held and it attracts people from across Texas and we've even had people from as far away as New Mexico, Oklahoma, New York, Florida, and even Brazil, Mexico, and Turkey. Texas Hydro Geo Workshop http://hydrogeoworkshop.org/ The workshop is an opportunity for participants to be introduced to and sharpen their skills in collecting and analyzing field data field. This is an "Outdoor" oriented event with modules ranging from surface geophysics, collection of water samples, stream gauging, biologic inventories and collecting, tracer testing, caving, etc. We expect to have about 40 modules at the workshop ranging in length from 1 to 6 hours. We expect about 350 people to attend. Most will be geology, hydrology, engineering, environmental science, and biology college students. However, we get a number of folks from the public that also attend and either help with the event or participate in the modules. As volunteers, you get into the event for free. We'll expect you to work in your assigned areas which may range from setting up and tearing down the event, serving food, helping set up modules, help with registration, etc. When you're not working (which is most of the time), you're welcome to attend the modules. We'll also provide you with breakfast Saturday and Sunday, dinner Saturday night, T-shirt, and camping, keynote speaker (Dr. George Veni) and other freebies we can acquire. If you would like to help present a module, please send me a note and let me know what you're interested in. You can look at the web page and download the program guide from the 2019 event and you'll get an idea of the modules presented. Kori Dunaway is our Volunteer Coordinate so feel free to contact her to sign up. Thanks, Geary Schindel, P.G. Co-Chair ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Badger Finds Roman Coins in Spanish Cave
I heard brief mention of this on NPR. Here is a more detailed version: < https://www.livescience.com/badger-uncovers-roman-coins-in-spain>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Virginia Caver Mark Hodge
Mark Hodge was a Virginia caver who was really into digging and in recent years had become very active in cave rescue training. He attended a couple of NCRC workshops in Texas, and a few Texas cavers knew him. The following was posted on Saturday. He will be missed. - Forwarded Message - From: Phil Lucas Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021, 11:16:58 PM EST Subject: Sad news Members and friends, Very shocking sad news. Mark Hodge passed away at 2:30 this afternoon during a Butler Cave trip. He had led a 4 hour cave trip for a party of four Eagle Scouts, a mom, a scout leader and an experienced caver. Mark was bringing up the end of the party and collapsed in the cave at the base of the entrance culvert. Despite CPR and rescue squad attempts, Mark failed to respond. It is presumed he died of a heart attack. He was a friend to so many. He was our outreach ambassador, our dynamo and will be missed in so many ways. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Texas caver Mike Wharton
Thanks, Bill. I remember Mike from the ‘70s and/or ‘80s in Texas. I made a couple of trips with him to Wizard’s Well. He was pretty hardcore back in the day. He had a heavy hand sledge that he called Thor. I still use something similar. I also remember an amusing incident from when he found a resurgence cave in Mexico and wanted to name it something or other spring cave in Spanish, but used the word for a mechanical spring instead of a fount of water. I hope he recovers. Mark Minton mamintonca...@gmail.com From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steele Sent: Monday, November 22, 2021 7:00 PM To: Cavers Texas Cc: Charles Steele Subject: [Texascavers] Texas caver Mike Wharton I heard bad news a little while ago about fellow caver Mike Wharton. Mike was very active in caving in Texas and Mexico in the 1980s and 1990s. He retired to the Hill Country a few years ago. He’s had a major stroke and ls being cared for at Sagebrook Nursing and Rehabilitation in Cedar Park, just north of Austin: https://caradayhealth.com/sagebrook/ I have his wife Cindy’s phone number if you know Mike and would like to speak with her. Email me for it. Best regards, Bill Steele Irving, Texas speleoste...@aol.com ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Nat Geographic - Epic flood sends cavers scrambling for their lives
Another flooding situation that Nancy and I were almost caught in was in Sótano de San Agustín (Huautla, Mexico) in 1985. We were among the last to make it out after a big rain. I knew there was a problem because I had been killing time while waiting my turn to climb by digging a trench to drain a small pool at the base of the entrance drop, but the water level kept rising and then turned brown. Our group made it out, but three others were trapped above Camp 1. They were okay, but the shaft series leading out was a swirling vortex devoid of airspace. They got out 9 hours later when a group of two went in the help them during a lull in the rain. It then proceeded to rain the rest of the night. That was in April, normally the height of the dry season. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Weaver Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 11:57 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Nat Geographic - Epic flood sends cavers scrambling for their lives excellent article. thanks. reminds me being trapped in Infernillo for 4 days as our sandy floored camp was flooded to the ceiling. that was the extent of the comparables. tho we did lose a lot of supplies to the rushing water. Nancy A 2-years-ago description of sudden flooding in the world's deepest cave with beautiful photos and video. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/flood-escape-deepest-ca ve-veryovkina-abkhazia Miles Abernathy ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] NZ Bats Win Bird Contest
<https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/01/world/asia/new-zealand-bird-bats.html> Mark M ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Work day at TSC
When and where is the Tx Caver Reunion markageetxca...@yahoo.com On Monday, October 4, 2021, 08:38:29 AM CDT, Jim Kennedy wrote: Attention cavers, There will be a workday at the Texas Speleological Center in Hays County next Sunday, October 10, all day. We will be painting outside walls, repairing the deck, improving drainage, nailing sheathing, and other chores. If you want to come and visit, feel free. If you want to help, write me a note. I will be posting additional details in the next few days. Ron ronralph at austin.rr.com Mobile email from my iPhone___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Nature in Texas 9/2 at 2:pm
A caver obituary and memories for Carl Ponebshek is at <http://cavelife.info/hall/Ponebshek.pdf>. Mark Minto From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steele Sent: Friday, August 27, 2021 12:19 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Nature in Texas 9/2 at 2:pm In case you don’t know this, Annalisa Peace is the daughter of the late Carl Poneshek, a father figure in Texas caving from the early 1980s until his passing in 2009. His obituary: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sanantonio/name/carl-ponebshek-obituary?pid=131431450 If you have trouble reading this email click here <https://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=45367069&msgid=506151&act=PXNB&c=431426&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icontact-archive.com%2Farchive%3Fc%3D431426%26f%3D3281%26s%3D3447%26m%3D506148%26t%3De86af88b7f29fb9ab73e723ac79ac29ad97e9a3c7cdd8b9e461a7176270f5941&cf=3281&v=2b0fb05753db3eb7dbf0faab707e1acac582f6e7cdabc9a4d94873454775d9ab> . <https://staticapp.icpsc.com/icp/resources/mogile/431426/260c101c06219156e4518da17516d2bc.jpeg> Dear GEAA members and friends, I am delighted to share an invitation from GEAA member group, Environment Texas, to an informative webinar next Thursday, September 2nd at 2:00. Nature in Texas has been fragmented by roads, fences, and other development that creates hazards for wildlife. These barriers can set entire ecosystems off balance and leave vulnerable and endangered species more susceptible to other challenges such as disease and climate change. One solution to this problem: developing wildlife corridors to connect separated habitats and provide safe pathways for wildlife. Join Environment Texas and guests to discuss wildlife corridors already stretching across Texas, including the Neches River and Laguna Atascosa corridors and San Antonio’s new Tobin Land Bridge in Hardberger Park, as well as endangered species such as the ocelot which utilize them, and learn about legislation in Congress which would provide funding for wildlife corridors across the nation. Hear from guest speakers including: • Dr. Sharon Wilcox, Texas Representative of Defenders of Wildlife • Andy Jones, Senior Project Manager, Conservation Acquisition of the Conservation Fund • Jewell Lee Cozort, Park Naturalist, City of San Antonio Parks and Recreation Brief presentations will be followed with a Q&A. Please RSVP here <https://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=45367069&msgid=506151&act=PXNB&c=431426&destination=https%3A%2F%2Fpublicinterestnetwork-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com%2FRedirect%3Fukey%3D15J5JSrt8JbqNToNnC9_ytUasr3R2_EpHfpS4s6cRVTQ-0%26key%3DYAMMID-71565437%26link%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fforms.gle%252FSFh58fno9A2rt42D7&cf=3281&v=7cc27384692ea8a1f6ddfed76e2ac63017a88fb302eef5fa4e4791063b4b30b1> , and reach out to Seth Billingsly (sbillings...@environmenttexas.org) you have any questions or comments. Have a wonderful weekend! Annalisa Peace Executive Director Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance You can donate to GEAA on line or mail a check to PO Box 15618, San Antonio, Texas 78212 You can always keep up with interesting water news on GEAA's Face Book page http://earthshare-texas.org/news/reliant-ecoshare-program/ <https://staticapp.icpsc.com/icp/resources/mogile/431426/b61fbed688437fe4c6b2c24c7e03770c.png> If you forward this e-mail, please strip off the Manage Your Subscription option at the bottom of this message. <https://app.icontact.com/icp/mmail-mprofile.php?r=45367069&l=3281&s=PXNB&m=506151&c=431426> Manage Your Subscription This message was sent to cwilliamste...@gmail.com from annal...@aquiferalliance.org Annalisa Peace Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance 1809 Blanco Road San Antonio, Tx 78212 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <https://www.icontact.com/signup-trial?utm_medium=poweredby&utm_source=footerlink&utm_campaign=iC%20Footer&afid=144186> iContact - Try it for FREE <https://click.icptrack.com/icp/track.php?msgid=506151&act=PXNB&r=45367069&c=431426> ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek article
I got it no problem without being a subscriber. Copy attached (sans pictures). Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steele Sent: Friday, August 27, 2021 10:05 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek article Seek and ye shall find. https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-Parks-Honey-Creek-Ranch-San-Antonio-16414142.php https://sanantonioreport.org/deal-honey-creek-texas-parks-and-wildlife-approval/ Bill Steele Irving, Texas On Aug 27, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Jules Jenkins wrote: Apparently, unless you subscribe to the paper, you can’t read the article. But, YAY!! Finally On Aug 26, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Mark Minton wrote: Thanks, Geary! That’s great news for Honey Creek! Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Geary Schindel Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 3:17 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Honey Creek article San Antonio Express News article on Honey Creek. State approves purchase and addition to Guadalupe State Park. <https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-Parks-Honey-Creek-Ranch-San-Antonio-16414142.php?sid=5ad9eeabcdb7ec63237d23b4&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headlines&utm_campaign=SAEN_210Report> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-Parks-Honey-Creek-Ranch-San-Antonio-16414142.php?sid=5ad9eeabcdb7ec63237d23b4&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headlines&utm_campaign=SAEN_210Report <> ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek article
Thanks, Geary! That's great news for Honey Creek! Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Geary Schindel Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 3:17 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Honey Creek article San Antonio Express News article on Honey Creek. State approves purchase and addition to Guadalupe State Park. <https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-Parks-Honey-Creek-Ranc h-San-Antonio-16414142.php?sid=5ad9eeabcdb7ec63237d23b4&utm_source=newslette r&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headlines&utm_campaign=SAEN_210Report> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-Parks-Honey-Creek-Ranch -San-Antonio-16414142.php?sid=5ad9eeabcdb7ec63237d23b4&utm_source=newsletter &utm_medium=email&utm_content=headlines&utm_campaign=SAEN_210Report ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Frank Binney NSS Luminary Talk
Or, with apologies to Gilbert Shelton, “Rope will get you through times of no Money better than Money will get you through times of no Rope!” Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ralph Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 5:40 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Frank Binney NSS Luminary Talk Thanks for the invite. I listened to your talk earlier and really liked your sponsors. You really caught the highlights of the Kirkwood culture. Donde hay mecate, hay esperanza. Where’s there’s rope, there’s hope. On 29 Jul 2021, at 2:56 PM, Miles Abernathy wrote: Frank, that is a really good video! Miles Abernathy On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 1:17 PM fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: Hey Y’all— The NSS has given me the opportunity to highlight many of the legends in Texas caving in my Luminary Talk for this year’s virtual convention. If you’d like, grab a cold Shiner beer and check out "Growing Up Underground: Confessions of a Pit Hippie" at: https://youtu.be/Ms-IS2IkyjY Salud, Frank Binney, NSS 10816, former UT Grotto Chair ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Fw: [SWR CAVERS] Fwd: CAROL HILL TEACHING CAVES OF THE WORLD AGAIN in AUGUST
FYI, the link given for that course does not work for me. I get a 404 Page Not Found error. The Caves of the World course description is at <https://continuinged.unm.edu/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=loa d&courseId=1016247>. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Diana Tomchick Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:49 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Fw: [SWR CAVERS] Fwd: CAROL HILL TEACHING CAVES OF THE WORLD AGAIN in AUGUST From: 'Michael Mansur' via Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM To: Sandia Grotto of the National Speleological Society ; Swrcavers ; Pajarito Grotto Subject: [SWR CAVERS] Fwd: CAROL HILL TEACHING CAVES OF THE WORLD AGAIN in AUGUST Hi folks, F.Y.I from Carol Hill. This sounds like a great online class! Thanks, Mike Mike Mansur NSS Southwest Region Chair swrnssch...@gmail.com Sandia Grotto Chair sandiagro...@gmail.com -- Forwarded message - From: Carol Hill Date: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 9:15 AM Subject: CAROL HILL TEACHING CAVES OF THE WORLD AGAIN in AUGUST To: , Carol Belski , Carol Belski 7/21/21 Hello to Members of the Sandia Grotto and SW Region of the NSS: Can you please pass this message around to your members: I will again be teaching Caves of the World at UNM Continuing Ed ONLINE, on Wednesday 11th, 18th, and 25th, from 10:00AM to 12NOON. Since this is an Osher Class you must be 50 or older to sign up, but since it is online, you can be a caver located anywhere in the world! (In a former class I had a student from Luxembourg). PLEASE TELL OTHERS! You can sign up at ce.unm.edu/Osher, or (505)277-0077. Carol Hill Carol Belski: Hi. I didn't know which email to use, so I'm trying both at the same time. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Loving photos
At least two those seem to be upside down (11 and 55). Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving Sent: Saturday, June 5, 2021 7:36 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Loving photos Yep. They are just pictures out of huge box of caving . Most ae from Bustamante I would guess. Have no idea. On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 2:08 PM Jim Kennedy wrote: Charlie, it would help us all immensely if you included some captions or other form of explanation with your photos. Otherwise they have very limited interest. Just more cave photos. Mobile email from my iPhone > On Jun 5, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Charles Loving wrote: > > -- > Charlie Loving > > > > > > > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Change of email address for Mark Minton
After many years, my access to the caver.net domain is going away. I need to change my email address to mamintonca...@gmail.com, both for personal communications and for the Texascavers lists. Will the list administrator please make the change? Thanks! Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Looking for Terry Rains' email address
Terry’s business email, but he sometimes also uses it for personal messages: . Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 5:48 PM To: texascavers Subject: [Texascavers] Looking for Terry Rains' email address I apparently have an old email address. Appreciate it if someone could send me an update. Merci, Aimee ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [Texas cavers] Tree Roots in Caves
Bovine-flux theory of cave location..That sounds like the creative,
imaginative, and occasionally bizarre Mark Minton that I remember from the late
60’s and early 70’s.
Mark Ross
From: Mark Minton
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2021 8:34 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tree Roots in Caves
I remember when we were taking Jackson to sample tree roots in caves that we
speculated that the trees able to access cave streams might be more luxurious
than neighboring trees that didn’t have their toes in the water. I don’t know
whether he ever looked into that or not, but it would obviously be of interest
to cavers. It sounds like John might provide pretty direct proof, if he can
find any of those hypothesized passages where the trees suggest.
This reminds me of a related concept I came up with back in my early days of
caving in the ‘70s. I hypothesized that grazing cattle would align themselves
with cave passages because the voids below would result in lower gravity than
“solid” ground, thus making it easier for the cattle to support their weight. I
extended this theory to suggest that by following the lines of cow pies in a
field, one could predict where there were cave passages below. I never followed
up on this theory, but it might be worth investigating. I called it the
bovine-flux theory of cave location.
Mark M
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
John Brooks
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 7:09 PM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tree Roots in Caves
We see tree roots in Arbuckle Mountain caves pretty regularly. Most of the
time, the roots are found closer to entrances or near entrances that we haven’t
found yet.
An interesting correlation to roots is seeing vegetation bands across rock
prairie areas that appear to follow faults that align with cave passages. I
have noticed many times, really thick jungle like vegetation following these
faults and known cave passages. Which led to noticing a +/- mile and a half
long jungle of brush that is around +/- 60 feet wide. With numerous sink
features along it. And there are dozens of caves that drain toward it. I have
called it the “green crack”. And it lines up with the “end” of a major known
cave.
There aren’t any noticeable tree roots near the “end”, but it’s obvious that
the vegetation is taking advantage of the water in the cave. I have speculated
that there are cave passages beneath the “green crack” - but we have not found
a way into it. But it could also just be a really large water collector with
smaller cave passage connections.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2021, at 11:34 AM, Jim Kennedy wrote:
Thanks, Mark. I took those guys to lots of caves, and never heard any
results, either.
Jim
Mobile email from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2021, at 10:04 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
While thumbing through the April NSS News (conservation issue), I came
across an article about tree roots in lava tubes in New Mexico. One of the
references in that article caught my eye: “Ecosystem rooting depth determined
with caves and DNA” by R. B. Jackson, et al. Several Texas cavers, myself
included, helped Jackson collect roots in caves in Texas back in the ‘90s. He
was especially interested in how deep underground one might find roots invading
a cave. I took him to a place pretty far back in the TB survey in Honey Creek
Cave where there were a lot of roots coming through cracks in the ceiling. He
collected samples and did DNA analysis to find out what kinds of trees the
roots came from. He also collected in Powell’s Cave, among others. I had not
seen the results of his research before. If anyone is interested, the article
is available for free download at <https://www.pnas.org/content/96/20/11387>.
Mark Minton
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Re: [Texascavers] Tree Roots in Caves
I remember when we were taking Jackson to sample tree roots in caves that we speculated that the trees able to access cave streams might be more luxurious than neighboring trees that didn’t have their toes in the water. I don’t know whether he ever looked into that or not, but it would obviously be of interest to cavers. It sounds like John might provide pretty direct proof, if he can find any of those hypothesized passages where the trees suggest. This reminds me of a related concept I came up with back in my early days of caving in the ‘70s. I hypothesized that grazing cattle would align themselves with cave passages because the voids below would result in lower gravity than “solid” ground, thus making it easier for the cattle to support their weight. I extended this theory to suggest that by following the lines of cow pies in a field, one could predict where there were cave passages below. I never followed up on this theory, but it might be worth investigating. I called it the bovine-flux theory of cave location. Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of John Brooks Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 7:09 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tree Roots in Caves We see tree roots in Arbuckle Mountain caves pretty regularly. Most of the time, the roots are found closer to entrances or near entrances that we haven’t found yet. An interesting correlation to roots is seeing vegetation bands across rock prairie areas that appear to follow faults that align with cave passages. I have noticed many times, really thick jungle like vegetation following these faults and known cave passages. Which led to noticing a +/- mile and a half long jungle of brush that is around +/- 60 feet wide. With numerous sink features along it. And there are dozens of caves that drain toward it. I have called it the “green crack”. And it lines up with the “end” of a major known cave. There aren’t any noticeable tree roots near the “end”, but it’s obvious that the vegetation is taking advantage of the water in the cave. I have speculated that there are cave passages beneath the “green crack” - but we have not found a way into it. But it could also just be a really large water collector with smaller cave passage connections. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2021, at 11:34 AM, Jim Kennedy wrote: Thanks, Mark. I took those guys to lots of caves, and never heard any results, either. Jim Mobile email from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2021, at 10:04 AM, Mark Minton wrote: While thumbing through the April NSS News (conservation issue), I came across an article about tree roots in lava tubes in New Mexico. One of the references in that article caught my eye: “Ecosystem rooting depth determined with caves and DNA” by R. B. Jackson, et al. Several Texas cavers, myself included, helped Jackson collect roots in caves in Texas back in the ‘90s. He was especially interested in how deep underground one might find roots invading a cave. I took him to a place pretty far back in the TB survey in Honey Creek Cave where there were a lot of roots coming through cracks in the ceiling. He collected samples and did DNA analysis to find out what kinds of trees the roots came from. He also collected in Powell’s Cave, among others. I had not seen the results of his research before. If anyone is interested, the article is available for free download at <https://www.pnas.org/content/96/20/11387>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Tree Roots in Caves
While thumbing through the April NSS News (conservation issue), I came across an article about tree roots in lava tubes in New Mexico. One of the references in that article caught my eye: "Ecosystem rooting depth determined with caves and DNA" by R. B. Jackson, et al. Several Texas cavers, myself included, helped Jackson collect roots in caves in Texas back in the '90s. He was especially interested in how deep underground one might find roots invading a cave. I took him to a place pretty far back in the TB survey in Honey Creek Cave where there were a lot of roots coming through cracks in the ceiling. He collected samples and did DNA analysis to find out what kinds of trees the roots came from. He also collected in Powell's Cave, among others. I had not seen the results of his research before. If anyone is interested, the article is available for free download at <https://www.pnas.org/content/96/20/11387>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] test
Thank you. Got it. On Sunday, April 25, 2021, 09:25:10 AM CDT, Sheryl Rieck wrote: Did I pass? Sheryl riecksheryl.ri...@gmail.com "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones On Apr 24, 2021, at 11:32 PM, Mark wrote: test___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers
These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of venery". They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See <https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/a-drudge-of-lexicographers-presents-collective-nouns/common-collectives>. Mark M -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers Donald, You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway, and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves, and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited. So let's see what we wind up with. The future is unwritten. Lee On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote: > On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote: > >> Thanks, Mimi! >> >> Very cute essay. >> >> But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners. I >> will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no >> majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it >> through). >> >> So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers. >> You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of >> Herefords. The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using >> the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained >> in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used >> throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming >> mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries. > > I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of > weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows, > but here's my two cents' worth. I've always thought that "team" of > cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving. I > can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among > active cavers--what would they need it for? Seems as if it would just > complicate communication. I suspect that these oddities got their > start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could > shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in > class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or > "Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers. > > --Donald ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] test
test___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers
If it’s not too late to submit a couple of other offerings, I would suggest the following: Karstacians Cuevanauts Thanks, Mark Ross From: Lee H. Skinner Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2021 8:46 PM To: SWR >> New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers ; Sandia Grotto Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers Thanks, Mimi! Very cute essay. But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners. I will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it through). So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers. You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of Herefords. The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries. So instead of "The cavers all emerged from the cave at dusk", it would be reported as "The column of cavers emerged from the cave at dusk" or "The descent of cavers squeezed through the crack in 20 minutes" or "The crawl of cavers met for a satisfying dinner after a long trip" Eventually, after the term becomes widely accepted, you could use "The column emerged from the cave at dusk" or "The descent squeezed through the crack in 20 minutes" or "The crawl met for a satisfying dinner after a long trip" These three phrases sound very strange now, but in a few years, the winning noun would not sound strange if used in the proper context. By the way, we now have 27 proposed entries from New Mexico and Texas. People who have not submitted entries can also vote of course. Lee On 4/24/2021 6:41 PM, Mimi Jasek wrote: This thread has actually been quite fun, and I wonder if there could be more than one winner? Maybe top three for different types of cavers? Imagine a report from a national convention one day during this special year.. Well, we have quite the large gathering today. There is a group of breakdown joined by some caveat, cavalcade, and column, and word is there is a huge announcement coming out by the end of the week! Wonder where the area will be? On another front, there is a cascade and sump being joined by a descent for some serious, but very excited, talk of a big push. Wetsuits and rope skills mandatory! Seems like a pack, stash, and formation have joined forces to map a new, large find somewhere, making the next map salon a guaranteed full house! And of course clunk, clump, and giggle are getting ready to head out for some fun in the type of caves they love best! For this large asylum, there is something for everyone! Stay tuned. Mimi Jasek 😊 Sent from my iPhone On Apr 23, 2021, at 6:34 PM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: What do you call a collection of cavers? There are gaggles of geese, pods of whales and murders of crows. What term would do justice to the special nature of cavers? I once suggested a column of cavers, as cave teams usually go single-file when traversing (especially well protected) cave passages. Does anyone have a better idea? Lee Skinner -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/d8d526ce-4793-98a1-bb2e-7b1fbbe29ee3%40thuntek.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/2090E5F9-DAB9-4CD1-9607-8A3F70E6D02 ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Nevin Davis
Speaking of Nevin’s electronics, his last major invention for caving (as far as I know) was a system to detect airflow connections between caves. This was like a very sophisticated “stink bomb” experiment, the air equivalent of a dye trace. At one entrance, a fan would be set up that would automatically reverse direction every few minutes. At another entrance he set up an extremely sensitive ultrasonic anemometer that he designed and built. Each device was connected to a data logger that recorded the timing. If the two caves were connected, the anemometer would record a square wave of airflow, reversing at exactly the same rate as the fan. There’s no way that could happen naturally. We used this system several times in the Burnsville Cove (Butler Cave area) in Virginia and found some interesting air connections. Some of those connections were not obvious and didn’t need to be passable, as long as the air could move through, just as for a dye trace with water. It worked really well, the only limitation being that the entrances had to be confined enough to direct the airflow in and out. This was easiest if the entrance was gated, but could also be accomplished with tarps. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Deal Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 2:55 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; Mark Minton Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Nevin Davis I knew Nevin from Pennsylvania/Butler Cave. He also was an inspired inventor, having built a motorized ascender (MAD I think he called it, for Motorized Ascending Device). Nevin used it to come out of Golendrinas. I think he modified a chain saw engine. He also was an electronic wizard. Somewhere I still have one of his fluorescent light headlamps, which was the first (and possibly only) electric headlamp that duplicated the broad glow and visibility provided by a carbide lamp. In my opinion the light provided was even better than the carbide lamp. DirtDoc ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Nevin Davis
Well-known Pennsylvania, Virginia and Hawaii caver Nevin Davis passed away last week. In the early days he made a couple of very significant trips to Mexico. He published the first definitive study of the caves of Cuetzalan in AMCS Newsletter Vol. 4, no. 5-6 (1974) (free download at <http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/oldNL.html>). John Wilson recently posted a bunch of photos of him, mostly in Hawaii, on Facebook at <https://www.facebook.com/groups/348624448643257>. You may recognize some other cavers in a few of those, including Bill Liebman. An obituary is being compiled, which I can forward for the Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers when it is complete. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Winter Storm Bat Fatalities
Originally posted to the Southwestern Cavers list: <https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texas-snowstorm-causes-large-bat-fatalities-15976958.php> Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] India Cave Art Fossil
Fossil discovery in Indian cave art: < https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/science/india-cave-art-fossil.html>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] FW: [SWR CAVERS] Oil drilling on sensitive New Mexico public lands puts drinking water, rare caves at risk :
Forward from Southwestern Cavers list: Oil drilling on sensitive New Mexico public lands puts drinking water, rare caves at risk https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2021/02/oil-drilling-sensitive-new-mexico-public-lands-puts-drinking-water-rare-caves-at-risk/ Jerry Atkinson ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] World's Oldest Cave Painting
World's oldest cave paintings, in Indonesia: <https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2021/01/14/worlds-oldest-known-cave-pai nting-found-in-south-sulawesi-.html>. These are even older than the ones discovered a couple of years ago, also in Indonesia. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Mars Robot Cave Dogs
Check out the cave-exploring robot dogs developed for exploring Mars: <https://www.livescience.com/agu-mars-robot-dogs.html>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Cueva de los Tayos
Yes; Los Tayos is in Ecuador, and as the article said, Neil Armstrong visited on one of the early expeditions. See also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cueva_de_los_Tayos>. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gluesenkamp Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:26 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cueva de los Tayos Los Tayos in Ecuador? Didn't some cavers take Neil Armstrong there? Andrew. Gluesenkamp, PhD 700 Billie Brooks Lane Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com On Sunday, January 3, 2021, 06:07:07 PM CST, Reddell, James R wrote: Did they mention the treasure the aliens left when they made the cave? James Cokendolpher and I described a new genus and species of troglobitic Schizomida (Tayos ashmolei) from the cave. James _ From: Texascavers on behalf of Mark Minton Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:25 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com ; 'Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society' Subject: [Texascavers] Cueva de los Tayos Interesting article about “the world’s most mysterious cave”: <https://www.outsideonline.com/2419910/journey-center-earth-cave-oilbirds>. The article mentions cavers needing to get both permission from the locals and the blessing of the cave itself, a scenario familiar to recent Huautla cavers. The cave appears to be huge, but surprisingly a geologist was quoted saying that it was only 25,000 – 30,000 years old. Also of note was that the recent visitors rappelled in, but were hauled out by the locals—up a 200-foot drop! Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Cueva de los Tayos
Interesting article about "the world's most mysterious cave": <https://www.outsideonline.com/2419910/journey-center-earth-cave-oilbirds>. The article mentions cavers needing to get both permission from the locals and the blessing of the cave itself, a scenario familiar to recent Huautla cavers. The cave appears to be huge, but surprisingly a geologist was quoted saying that it was only 25,000 - 30,000 years old. Also of note was that the recent visitors rappelled in, but were hauled out by the locals-up a 200-foot drop! Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Bats and COVID
Interesting article about the interaction between people and bats, COVID, white-nose syndrome, rabies, etc.: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/opinion/covid-bats.html>. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Mexico histo caves article :
Interesting that you can supposedly get histo simply from digging in dirt that had been exposed to bat guano years in the past. I had never heard that before. That makes it a lot more insidious. Fortunately, most cavers from the Southwest are probably mostly immune from years of exposure. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of jerryat...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:34 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society Subject: [Texascavers] Mexico histo caves article : Some of Mexico’s caves harbor an invisible enemy: histoplasmosis https://mexiconewsdaily.com/mexicolife/some-of-mexicos-caves-harbor-an-invisible-enemy-histoplasmosis/ Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone Jerry Atkinson ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Bill Bentley
Bill, I’m so sorry to hear about your dementia diagnosis. I hope you have many fruitful years left. Thank you for all you’ve done for the caver community over the years. Best wishes in your future endeavors. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 6:51 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Bill Bentley Greetings fellow cavers, As some of you may know already.. but I have 2 more tests to rule out a diagnosis of something they call "Lewy Bodies Dementia". But I have all of the symptoms. I have known myself that something was not right for quite a while. I was glad to finally get some answers that made sense. My family and friends have been wonderful in their support so far. I hope to soon be making a few bucket list trips. I also am trying to make the conscience effort to be upbeat and positive through it all until such time as I can't. God bless all my friends and people that care. I will try to post as much as is possible. Take care and try to make someone smile and brighten their day and think of me. Keep the undying spirit of exploration going. Bill -- This email comes from Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net <http://www.caver.net/me2013.jpg> ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure
Good stuff Mark ! Mid-Illinois Grotto would be proud of you if they were still around (except possibly for the hearse and the border haircut deals) . I was hoping for some recognition at just getting back into caving at 70, forget about bolt climbing! I’m shooting for 80.how about you? Mark Ross From: Charles Loving Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 12:09 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure Once upon a time I joined Ron Bridgemon at Carlsbad. Bob Burney and I participated in a Parks thing where we mapped off the trail. We were party to that doings twice. I have no idea what was virgin or not. At one point Burney and my team of mappers scampered, we could scamper then, up a flowstone wall to a hole. We tied off to something, crawled through the hole and were at the top of a cliff. We rappelled down to what is the lake of the clouds. Can't say that we discovered it or not. Our Smokey had never seen it. I have some ancient photos of me in a cave surrounded by these huge balloon shaped formations the size of barrage balloons. Next day we mapped Spider Cave. On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:44 AM Mark Minton wrote: Not dead yet! We still do a lot of bolt climbing in Germany Valley and elsewhere. With modern, lightweight tools it is easier than it used to be. I’ll be 70 next month. I don’t know who the oldest person to do bolt climbs in Carlsbad is, but I must be in contention. :-) Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of bmorgan...@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure A geezer bolt climb, the Weazel is highly impressed! Sleaze From: Texascavers On Behalf Of Mark Minton Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:42 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; swrcav...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Texascavers] High Adventure Last March Bob Alderson, Yvonne Droms, and I joined Dwight Livingston on his expedition to Carlsbad Cavern. We did a lot of bolt climbing and discovered significant upper-level passages. I wrote an article for Inside Earth, the NPS Cave and karst newsletter. You can read it here: <https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/high-adventure-in-carlsbad-cavern.htm>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure
Not dead yet! We still do a lot of bolt climbing in Germany Valley and elsewhere. With modern, lightweight tools it is easier than it used to be. I'll be 70 next month. I don't know who the oldest person to do bolt climbs in Carlsbad is, but I must be in contention. :-) Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of bmorgan...@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:28 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure A geezer bolt climb, the Weazel is highly impressed! Sleaze From: Texascavers On Behalf Of Mark Minton Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:42 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; swrcav...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Texascavers] High Adventure Last March Bob Alderson, Yvonne Droms, and I joined Dwight Livingston on his expedition to Carlsbad Cavern. We did a lot of bolt climbing and discovered significant upper-level passages. I wrote an article for Inside Earth, the NPS Cave and karst newsletter. You can read it here: <https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/high-adventure-in-carlsbad-cavern.htm>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] High Adventure
Last March Bob Alderson, Yvonne Droms, and I joined Dwight Livingston on his expedition to Carlsbad Cavern. We did a lot of bolt climbing and discovered significant upper-level passages. I wrote an article for Inside Earth, the NPS Cave and karst newsletter. You can read it here: <https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/high-adventure-in-carlsbad-cavern.htm>. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Help protect the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone
Done deal ! Mark Ross From: Jon Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 4:03 PM To: texascavers Subject: [Texascavers] Help protect the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone In a geologic way this is cave related. The San Marcos Greenbelt Alliance promotes purchasing environmentally sensitive land around San Marcos to protect the land by making it parkland with a greenbelt trail system. This land is mostly aquifer recharge zone. Please consider helping them get this funding. See Below an excerpt from their newsletter: Take 10 seconds (no joke) to help the San Marcos Greenbelt Alliance! The winner of this national voting process will receive $50,000 for their organization! This money will be used to expand and improve the local natural areas and trails. Sherwood is a founding member of the Greenbelt Alliance and has done so much for the community of San Marcos. We can’t thank him enough. Go Sherwood Go!!! You can vote once from any email address by October 15th. https://www.coxconservesheroes.com/vote Thanks in advance, Jon ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] test
Worked for me as well! Mark R (which may confuse you further) From: Mark Minton Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 8:20 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] test I got it, too. Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:04 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] test Works this time On Sep 19, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Karen Perry wrote: been trying to send and keeps failing Karen Perry ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] test
I got it, too. Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:04 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] test Works this time On Sep 19, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Karen Perry wrote: been trying to send and keeps failing Karen Perry ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Bats
For anyone who doesn’t know the history here, Merlin Tuttle started Bat Conservation International. Eventually they went their separate ways and he founded a new organization called Merlin Tuttle’s Bat Conservation. Similar names and both in Austin, but different organizations. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jules Jenkins Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:01 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bats On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:12 PM, Crash Kennedy wrote I guess I read your inout wrong, sorry. You said ‘Merlin Tuttle’s Bat Conservation is your best source.’ Crash Jules, I didn't even mention BCI. I agree with you that they would have no interest. I specifically mentioned Merlin Tuttle's Bat Conservation, a different organization from BCI. Jim On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 2:09 PM Jules Jenkins wrote: You mean the McNeil bridge bats? BCI hasn’t paid any attention to them for years. When I did monitoring there, it was on my own. BCI wasn’t interested. But, as Jim said, BCI is likely your only outlet. Good luck. On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:16 AM, Jim Kennedy wrote: Merlin Tuttle’s Bat Conservation is your best source. Crash Mobile email from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Amy Jasek wrote: > > Hi all - a friend of mine has some concerns about our local bat community (in > Round Rock). Who should I reach out to in my caver family about this? > > Amy ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Gypsum Mine
Sure seems like the mine should have shown up on a title search, even if it had been public land when the mine was active. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of C Tiderman Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 1:10 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gypsum Mine The mine was abandoned in the early 1900s. The presence of a mine was not on any county land records. The houses were built in the 1990s. What the developer knew is unknown. Carol On Sunday, June 21, 2020, 12:43:53 PM EDT, John Brooks wrote: Someone's professional liability coverage is about to take a big hit. > On Jun 20, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Mark wrote: > > This is really bizarre! Fascinating story and great pics. Thanks for sharing! > > Mark Ross > > -Original Message- From: Mike Flannigan > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 3:53 PM > To: Cavetex > Subject: [Texascavers] Gypsum Mine > > Cave, or mine, opens up in your front yard: > https://www.boredpanda.com/sinkhole-south-dakota-black-hawk-old-gypsum-mine/ > > Mike ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Gypsum Mine
This is really bizarre! Fascinating story and great pics. Thanks for sharing! Mark Ross -Original Message- From: Mike Flannigan Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 3:53 PM To: Cavetex Subject: [Texascavers] Gypsum Mine Cave, or mine, opens up in your front yard: https://www.boredpanda.com/sinkhole-south-dakota-black-hawk-old-gypsum-mine/ Mike ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Roger Brucker speaking online tonight
That is one smart and gutsy lady! From: C Tiderman Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 2:03 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Roger Brucker speaking online tonight It was recorded. You may be able to access it from the grotto website. Carol On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 08:48:05 AM EDT, Nancy wrote: > Missed it. Any idea if the talks are recorded and avail afterwards? Pretty > sure Longest Cave was the first caving book I read - long ago Nancy ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Tom Rohrer
Thanks to everyone who responded with contact info for Tom Rohrer. I was able to email Tom and he responded. Mark M From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:01 PM To: 'swrcav...@googlegroups.com' Cc: 'texascavers@texascavers.com' Subject: Tom Rohrer Does anyone know how to contact Tom Rohrer? We have some questions about old exploration in Carlsbad Cavern that he may be able to answer. He's listed in the 2018 NSS Members Manual, but without an email address. I called the telephone number given but it said no longer in service. Finally I sent a paper letter to the address listed (Carlsbad), but got no response, although it didn't come back as undeliverable. Any help would be appreciated. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Tom Rohrer
Does anyone know how to contact Tom Rohrer? We have some questions about old exploration in Carlsbad Cavern that he may be able to answer. He's listed in the 2018 NSS Members Manual, but without an email address. I called the telephone number given but it said no longer in service. Finally I sent a paper letter to the address listed (Carlsbad), but got response, although it didn't come back as undeliverable. Any help would be appreciated. Mark Minton ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] here's a fun use of the underground
The plastic flow of rock reminds me of a related question: How high can a cliff face be before the weight of the rock above causes the face to blow out. For hard rock (granite, sandstone, maybe limestone) it is obviously pretty high, like on the order of several thousand feet based on El Capitan, the Venezuelan tepuis and Mount Thor. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Deal Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:49 PM To: Cave NM; Cave Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] here's a fun use of the underground ---snip--- At Gnome and the WIPP the cavity is a half-mile down. Now, I ask, how much does a half-mile of rock weigh? The right answer is "a whole lot"! Under those confining pressures (the weight of the overlying rock) the salt IS plastic, and readily deforms. If you excavate an opening at atmospheric pressure, the salt immediately starts to flow into it, like thick, slow toothpaste from a squeeze tube. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] It is a tough time to be a Fan of Bats
Thanks, Julia! Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 10:17 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com; New Mexico Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] It is a tough time to be a Fan of Bats Attached is the article from the WSJ. Julia G Germany c: 281.979.9208 e: <mailto:ju...@trigrants.com> ju...@trigrants.com Tri Grants Find | Write | Manage From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of PRESTON FORSYTHE Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 06:10 To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] It is a tough time to be a Fan of Bats It’s a Tough Time to Be a Fan of Bats <https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-a-tough-time-to-be-a-fan-of-bats-11590691884?mod=itp_wsj&mod=&mod=djemITP_h> Text Box: <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/wsj.png> It’s a Tough Time to Be a Fan of Bats Alistair MacDonald Coronavirus has forced bat devotees to step up defense of their favorite creature; ‘the most misunderstood of an... Hope this morning WSJ article opens for you! Subtitle--Give Bats a Break! Preston, up in KY ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] It is a tough time to be a Fan of Bats
Preston, It looks like you need to have a subscription to read that article. :-( Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of PRESTON FORSYTHE Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 7:10 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] It is a tough time to be a Fan of Bats It’s a Tough Time to Be a Fan of Bats <https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-a-tough-time-to-be-a-fan-of-bats-11590691884?mod=itp_wsj&mod=&mod=djemITP_h> Text Box: <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/wsj.png> It’s a Tough Time to Be a Fan of Bats Alistair MacDonald Coronavirus has forced bat devotees to step up defense of their favorite creature; ‘the most misunderstood of an... Hope this morning WSJ article opens for you! Subtitle--Give Bats a Break! Preston, up in KY ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Government Canyon Karst Project
Please put me on the list ! Thanks, Mark From: Marvin Miller Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 7:37 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Government Canyon Karst Project Cavers, The Karst Project at Government Canyon SNA scheduled for May 16 and 17 will take place on the 16th only. I will be limiting activities to ridgewalking (50’ separation is social distancing in its very nature) and all activity areas will be accessed by hiking from the project meeting spot or from the Visitor Center (no need to ride in anyone else’s car). I will also be limiting participation to 15 people. Please let me know as soon as you can if you want to participate so that I can arrange teams and objectives. I will be giving priority to people that have participated in the project in the past. We will be following park rules while hiking on trails. There is no camping allowed on this weekend. Marvin (210) 415 5190 ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] FW: May 2020 TX Highways Mag - Caving Article
Cool! Thanks, Julia! Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Julia Germany Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 5:54 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] FW: May 2020 TX Highways Mag - Caving Article Hi All: You don’t have to pay for a subscription of TX Highways to get access to articles – simply signup for their newsletter and you will get, for example, the forwarded May 2020 edition. *I signed up via the Texas Dept of Transportation website for newsletters of interest to me. Here’s the link, from below, to the Texas Caves article: <https://texashighways.com/travel/outdoors/spelunk-into-depths-of-texas-discover-hot-spots-for-biodiversity/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=May%202020%20Issue&utm_content=May%202020%20Issue+CID_cd6a1423a22063ddbc803e2ebf271678&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=GO%20DEEP> https://texashighways.com/travel/outdoors/spelunk-into-depths-of-texas-discover-hot-spots-for-biodiversity/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=May%202020%20Issue&utm_content=May%202020%20Issue+CID_cd6a1423a22063ddbc803e2ebf271678&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=GO%20DEEP Julia G Germany c: 281.979.9208 e: <mailto:ju...@trigrants.com> ju...@trigrants.com Tri Grants Find | Write | Manage From: Texas Highways Magazine [mailto:lett...@texashighways.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 12:30 To: Julia Germany Subject: The (Future) Road Trip Issue We just can't wait to get on the road again! The May issue of Texas Highways is available now. No images? <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-e-plluujy-ztudyklkl-jd/> Click here <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-r/> Texas Highways Magazine The Official Travel Magazine of Texas Since 1974 <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-y/> The May 2020 cover of Texas Highways Magazine Cover illustration by Lulu La Nantaise. <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-j/> Experience Lubbock's backyard <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-t/> We just can't wait to get on the road again — here are some great road trip journeys to look forward to. Photo: Kenny Braun <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-i/> 7 Texas Road Trips that Are All About the Journey Weave through small towns and backroads to see quirky sites, historic locales, and unforgettable views. Rounded Rectangle: ROAD TRIP DREAMIN' SPONSORED <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-h/> When the time comes, Waco awaits. Stay at home for now… Right now, we all need to stay at home and stay safe. But a time will come when we can travel again. When that time comes, Waco awaits. Rounded Rectangle: Visit wacoheartoftexas.com <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-u/> A caver ascends out of Punkin Cave, near Del Rio. Photo: Erich Schlegel <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-o/> Spelunk into the Depths of Texas and Discover Hot Spots for Biodiversity The rare creatures and geology within Texas caves face growing pressure as Texas develops. Rounded Rectangle: GO DEEP <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-n/> Want these stories even sooner? A subscription to Texas Highways gets you these stories and more delivered to your home a week before the magazine is available on newsstands. Rounded Rectangle: Subscribe today <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-x/> Shop the Texas Highways mercantile Find the perfect hand-made gift for Mom from a Texas-based artisan. Plus, take 25% off with promo code MOM25! <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-m/> Shop the Mercantile » <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-c/> Get a May print copy delivered right to you No need to run to the store — get the May issue delivered directly to you! <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-q/> Order Now » <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-a/> Text Box: MORE FROM TEXAS HIGHWAYS <https://texashighways.cmail20.com/t/t-l-plluujy-ztudyklkl-f/> Best-Selling Author and Twitter Personality
Re: [Texascavers] TPWD park re-openings
Even at 72 I can usually handle the Texas heat as long as I have some air movement and lots of water. But there is something about being muzzled with a face mask that makes the heat less bearable for me. Perhaps I’m part dog and need to pant to stay cool! Thanks for your take on this! Mark From: Lindsey Adamoski Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:00 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TPWD park re-openings What is to keep someone from wearing a face mask in 80+ temps? I've worn heavy, HEPA filter face masks while mountain biking when it's 100 degrees outside due to my asthma and allergies. Sure, it's uncomfortable, but to me it's worth it to be outside. This is like saying you can't cave in the summer. It's just how much heat you're willing to bear! On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:54 PM Mark wrote: I’ve received 2 or 3 notices in the last couple of days about the state parks re-opening. All of them indicate that “To help keep parks safe during the pandemic, visitors must bring and wear face coverings, keep a six-foot distance from those outside their group and avoid gathering in groups larger than five people.” This would indicate that face masks must even be worn on the trails! If this is correct, when temps head back into the 80’s plus, they have effectively closed the parks again. Has anyone verified this with TPWD? Mark Ross ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] TPWD park re-openings
I’ve received 2 or 3 notices in the last couple of days about the state parks re-opening. All of them indicate that “To help keep parks safe during the pandemic, visitors must bring and wear face coverings, keep a six-foot distance from those outside their group and avoid gathering in groups larger than five people.” This would indicate that face masks must even be worn on the trails! If this is correct, when temps head back into the 80’s plus, they have effectively closed the parks again. Has anyone verified this with TPWD? Mark Ross___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] TEXAS HIGHWAYS July 1980 (corrected)
Thanks, Carl! Very nice article. The cover looks familiar. I probably have a hard copy of that somewhere in my collection of old magazine articles on caving, but it's buried in a box in the attic. Mark - From: Texascavers On Behalf Of Carl Kunath Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 Wow! Some of you do actually carefully read through your messages! Eagle-eyed Mark Minton has noted that the first two pages were missing. For some reason Acrobat did not pick up that two-page combined file. It is now included with this version. The LR photo on page 15 is incorrectly oriented. In that place it's sometimes hard to know. Page 17: Mary Thiesse and a few others wanted to know if "Linda" was the same as my wife, "Glenda." Yes, that's a printing mistake. Moreover, she is not "Squeezing through the Diamond Horseshoe." She is looking at the Diamond Horseshoe growing out of the wall in front of her. There is also a photograph that bleeds across pages 18-19 that was not combined. Apologies for the incomplete earlier posting. Also apologies for the multiple postings. The original post was rejected as being oversized. I split the post into two parts to meet the size requirements and retransmitted, not knowing that the original post would be approved and passed along. Oh, well. . . . Destroy the earlier versions and retain this one. I hope you found it a worthwhile read. ===Carl Kunath ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Highways Cave Article July 1980
Carl, Thanks for the older Texas Highways article on caves. Your copy is missing the first 2 pages. The index says it begins on page 12, but yours starts with page 14. Even old issues like this one do not appear to be publically available from their archives. :-( Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Carl Kunath Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:15 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Highways Cave Article July 1980 Enjoy, ===Carl Kunath ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] TH May 2020
Nice! Thanks, Carl! From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Carl Kunath Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:14 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] TH May 2020 The current (May 2020) issue of Texas Highways contains a feature article about Texas caves. This has created considerable interest but most do not have the issue in question. I scanned it for you and have attached it to this mail. As a matter of interest, 40 years ago I wrote a feature article about caves for the July 1980 Texas Highways. It is attached to the next mail Enjoy. ===Carl Kunath ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
Thanks, Bill. If you get a copy, I’d like to see a scan. Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 1:21 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Mark, The May issue will have the article about Texas caving. I was phone interviewed for it and I think Crash Kennedy was too. Bill Steele On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Mark Minton wrote: Thanks, Mark. I’d already gone to the Texas Highways web site looking for the article, but all I got was the teaser you sent. Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:19 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: Minton Mark Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Mark et al: Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any more! https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/ Mark Ross From: Mark Minton Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Charlie, There was no attachment. :-( Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; Bill Steele; Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Article on Caving. Photos etc. -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
Thanks, Mark. I’d already gone to the Texas Highways web site looking for the article, but all I got was the teaser you sent. Mark M From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:19 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: Minton Mark Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Mark et al: Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any more! https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/ Mark Ross From: Mark Minton Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Charlie, There was no attachment. :-( Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; Bill Steele; Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Article on Caving. Photos etc. -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
Mark et al: Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any more! https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/ Mark Ross From: Mark Minton Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Charlie, There was no attachment. :-( Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; Bill Steele; Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Article on Caving. Photos etc. -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
Charlie, There was no attachment. :-( Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; Bill Steele; Carl Kunath Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways Article on Caving. Photos etc. -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] FW: NSS Convention cancelled
-Original Message- From: Robert Hoke Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 3:01 PM Subject: NSS Convention cancelled Folks, The 2020 NSS Convention in West Virginia has been cancelled. The message below just went out announcing the cancellation. I'm forwarding it to everyone I have listed at running a session, workshop, or other activity at the convention. This is a sad decision, but certainly not unexpected. Bob Hoke Subject: Sad News... Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:57 From: Geisler, Rich To: April 18, 2029 For Immediate distribution Dear NSS Friends, After much listening, discussion, careful consideration, and in accordance with federal, state, and local recommendations, we have made the difficult decision to cancel the 2020 NSS Convention. Given the painful reality of COVID-19, one of the greatest global challenges of our lifetimes, we believe this is the right thing to do. Yes, we are heartbroken. We know you are too. However, public health and the well-being of our members, our staff, and our neighbors in the Elkins, West Virginia, community are our highest priorities. This decision requires a complete change in logistics. To those of you who preregistered-in the coming weeks, we will be establishing the mechanisms needed to process refunds. You will be contacted individually with your options to proceed. We are also considering available options for conducting some elements of convention in some virtual space. In the interim, we ask your patience as we thought it best to inform everyone of this development sooner rather than later. To the convention staff-we give our full sincere thanks for all the efforts you made. It's difficult times like these that we truly realize what a great group of caving friends we have. And we look forward to working with you in the future. We are now initiating plans to move the 2020 West Virginia Convention to 2023 and moving forward with the 2021 convention in Weed, California. Until we can once more crawl a muddy crawl or party around a bonfire-stay smart, stay safe, stay healthy. Rich Geisler and Meredith Weberg NSS 2020 Convention Co-Chairs Katherine "Kat" Crispin, Ph.D. NSS Administrative Vice President Geary Schindel NSS President Nathan Farrar NSS Chair of the Directorate ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page
Bill, Thanks for all your work on the AMCS web site and especially the maps. I can think of a couple of reasons why Puebla has more systems reported than Oaxaca. One is that cavers have been active in Oaxaca over a longer period of time, Huautla being one of the first big systems to have been visited. Effort there has also been sustained. That means more time for connections to be made. Another is that there are probably more major caving areas in Puebla than Oaxaca, which increases the likelihood of finding big systems. Huautla and related areas like Cerro Rábon and even Cheve are quite far north in Oaxaca and close to the border with Puebla. There are caves in other parts of Oaxaca to be sure, but most of the big ones are up north in a relatively small part of the state. My two cents worth. Mark Minton From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of William R. Elliott Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 11:53 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page The AMCS (Association for Mexican Cave Studies) has added more maps to its maps page. See http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/ I added the states of Oaxaca (543 maps) and Puebla (266 maps), which include recent maps from the NSS News and AMCS Activities Newsletter (through no. 38, 2015). Maps in numbers 39-41 (2016-2018), are noted, but I do not have the pdfs for them yet. At least you can now look up the map pages in those last three printed newsletters for the areas you are interested in. Many favorite "cave areas" are included in the tables: Huautla, Cheve, Cerro Rabón, Cerro Verde, Sierra Negra, Cuetzalan, Atepataco (Huetamalco) and others. These html pages were generated in Excel. One can save a page on your drive and open it in Excel, then save it as an .xlsx file. Then you can add filters if you want to narrow down the view to one municipio or area, or whatever field you like. These also can be used in LibreOffice Calc or other spreadsheet programs. Oaxaca has 8 big "sistemas" (cave systems), but Puebla has 25. Why is that? Either it's the steep karst terrain causing more cave integration in some areas, or maybe a caver habit of naming sistemas in some areas. Maybe some experienced Oaxaca and Puebla cavers can comment on this. Note that your browser tab may have to be refreshed or reloaded to see a new page version. Anyway, have fun looking at the maps! William R. (Bill) Elliott speodes...@gmail.com 573-291-5093 cell ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Maya Cave Movie
There's a sci-fi movie about the Maya underworld Xibalba, in which cave divers meet up with monsters. Free on YouTube at <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2kpreH6GXE>. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats
Sorry; I left an s off of that last link. It should be <https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmets>. Mark From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 3:40 PM To: 'texascavers@texascavers.com' Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Hard Hats My first helmet was an MSA Comfo-Cap fiberglass miner’s helmet (1968). I also remember people wearing those old motorcycle helmets. No doubt good head protection but gawdawful hot, heavy and bulky. I never went that route. I did use an orange MSR plastic helmet for a while, but the narrow brim all the way around the perimeter made it too wide for tight spots. Ultimates and the similar Joe Brown helmets were good, but also too hot. Another brief description of helmet history is at <https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmet>. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of jerryat...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:54 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats The helmet that saved Blake was an Ultimate, heavy but quite sturdy and saved me and others from some hard knocks. I once had a carabiner fall from about 60 ft and hit me square on the top of the helmet. Knocked me to my knees but no other damage other than ringing in the ears. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone Jerry Atkinson On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:25 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE wrote: I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a carbide light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 1940. Now I also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a small bill only on the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago a collector told me that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe. Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin strap that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then there is the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more serious injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was the top helmet at the time. Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917. Helmets off !! I could open Mark's link. Preston Sent from AT <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature> &T Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton wrote: Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: <https://www.xyht.com/surveying/hard-hat-anniversary/>. Only the first few paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of less interest. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats
My first helmet was an MSA Comfo-Cap fiberglass miner’s helmet (1968). I also remember people wearing those old motorcycle helmets. No doubt good head protection but gawdawful hot, heavy and bulky. I never went that route. I did use an orange MSR plastic helmet for a while, but the narrow brim all the way around the perimeter made it too wide for tight spots. Ultimates and the similar Joe Brown helmets were good, but also too hot. Another brief description of helmet history is at <https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmet>. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of jerryat...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:54 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats The helmet that saved Blake was an Ultimate, heavy but quite sturdy and saved me and others from some hard knocks. I once had a carabiner fall from about 60 ft and hit me square on the top of the helmet. Knocked me to my knees but no other damage other than ringing in the ears. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone Jerry Atkinson On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:25 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE wrote: I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a carbide light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 1940. Now I also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a small bill only on the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago a collector told me that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe. Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin strap that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then there is the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more serious injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was the top helmet at the time. Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917. Helmets off !! I could open Mark's link. Preston Sent from AT <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature> &T Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton wrote: Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: <https://www.xyht.com/surveying/hard-hat-anniversary/>. Only the first few paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of less interest. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Hard Hats
Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here's a link to a story about the company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: <https://www.xyht.com/surveying/hard-hat-anniversary/>. Only the first few paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of less interest. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
Jim Coke (head of QRSS) says this episode takes place near Tulum in Quintana Roo. I suspect this guy Steve Backshall is similar to Bear Grylls – sort of an outdoor adventurer but more sensational than hardcore. Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jon Cradit Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 9:33 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves Mark, Did he ever say how much unexplored passage there was? I did see they were caving topless, with no helmets. JC <http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/> https://ucarecdn.com/cfe99bfa-9ee9-4330-862f-aee807af1b4c/-/resize/132x68/img.png Jon Cradit P.G., R.S. Geologist – Aquifer Protection <http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/> www.edwardsaquifer.org 210.222.2204 ext 323 900 E Quincy San Antonio, TX 78215 <https://www.facebook.com/TheEdwardsAquifer/?sk=wall> https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03facebook.gif https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif <https://twitter.com/EdwardsAquifer> https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03twitter.gif https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif <https://www.youtube.com/edwardsaquiferauthorityeaa> https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03youtube.gif https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif From: Texascavers On Behalf Of Mark Minton Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:26 PM To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves “Largest unexplored cave” – So how, if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com [mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves Expedition With Steve Backshall <https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FprogramSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=eSeHvWMaWvMg9Nepzpc86yYfFItOOh3iYVJi%2FauRByo%3D&reserved=0> Mexico: Flooded Caves <https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FtabName%3Dguide%26programSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004%26season%3D1%26episode%3D10&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=9vZmkuQy2O8qytJlgYNAjO47GBRPVaLi4uT08S28mfU%3D&reserved=0> Season 1, Episode 10 • New 9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below the jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
“Largest unexplored cave” – So how if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com [mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves Expedition With Steve Backshall <https://tvlistings.zap2it.com/overview.html?programSeriesId=SH03364768&tmsId=EP033647680004> Mexico: Flooded Caves <https://tvlistings.zap2it.com/overview.html?tabName=guide&programSeriesId=SH03364768&tmsId=EP033647680004&season=1&episode=10> Season 1, Episode 10 • New 9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below the jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters (SMARS)
I had not heard of shape-memory alloys being used to split rock, but it makes sense. A related method uses an expanding clay powder that is mixed with water to form a paste and then poured into a drill hole. As it dries, it expands and breaks the rock. Disadvantages of the clay method are that it takes a big hole (about 2 inches diameter in order to hold enough material) and around 24 hours to do the job. Sounds like this method might require a smaller hole and much less time. Such methods produce little flyrock and could be useful in a rescue situation where explosives couldn’t be used close to the victim. A disadvantage of this new alloy is that it is probably expensive (titanium and hafnium), but could possibly be reused. Interesting asides about hafnium: it was the second-to-last naturally occurring stable element to be discovered (1923). (Rhenium was the last in 1925.) Hafnium carbide has the highest melting point of any known binary compound (7,034 degrees Fahrenheit), and the mixed carbide of tungsten and hafnium has the single highest melting point of any known compound at 7,457 degrees F. Mark M Retired Chemist From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 1:52 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters (SMARS) I was going through some old NASA Tech Briefs and came across this. https://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/tb/techbriefs/mechanics-and-machinery/33375 https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-87 ntrs.nasa.gov › archive › nasa › casi.ntrs.nasa.gov Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters - NTRS - NASA PDF by O Benafan - ?2015 - ?Cited by 3 - ?Related articles A static rock splitter device based on high-force, high-temperature shape memory alloys (HTSMAs) was developed for space related applications requiring controlled geologic excavation in planetary bodies such as the Moon, Mars, and near-Earth asteroids. Nigel near the Lindsay-Parsons Biodiversity Preserve, West Danby, NY http://www.fllt.org/preserves/lindsay-parsons-biodiversity-preserve/ ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey
Reminds me of the time we were invited to a big ranch in west Texas to check out a cave. The owner said he knew it had to be big because his wife had once spent all day in there with the ranch foreman. Turned out it was only one room. Wonder what they did in there all day. Hmmm. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Weaver Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:44 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey thanks Andy. Jill told me that the cave was being privately explored and that it was purportedly "3 miles long and going” which made me think, if true, that cavers would know about it. She was on the ranch studying golden cheek warblers as there was habitat. I’m highly dubious of most claims of 3 mile long caves by ranchers as they often turn out to be one large room But you never know .. . . Nancy ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey
I presume you mean Frio (River). Mark Minton -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Weaver Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 6:32 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey anyone working in a cave on a ranch at the headwaters of the trio? I met a woman in Taos today who lived on that ranch and was trying to describe it to me. just wondering if it has a name, don’t want a lead or to know where it is. Nancy ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related
Warning: Chemistry lesson! I can't imagine why you think burning ethanol creates sugar. The process of burning combines the carbon and hydrogen in organic molecules with oxygen to create carbon dioxide and water. If combustion is incomplete you might get residual carbon (soot), carbon monoxide and maybe some smaller organic compounds. Ethanol is C2H6O. Sugar is C12H22O11. Burning makes molecules smaller, not larger. There is no way you could produce sugar by burning ethanol. Mark Minton Organic Chemist (Retired) On Tue, 24 Sep, 2019 at 4:28 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote: To: texascavers@texascavers.com - When you burn ethanol what is the by-product left in your engine? Why that would be sugar. Why not just put a pound of sugar in your gas tank with each fill up. That's crazy no one would do that. Yes they would we are all forced to when using ethanol. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] For your amusement
A similar thing happened to my 4WD school bus coming back from Mexico one time. In the middle of the International Bridge heading into Texas the pinion nut broke or fell off, dropping the rear drive shaft. We took the rear shaft off, locked the hubs and drove back to Austin with the front drive shaft. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net On Fri, 28 Jun, 2019 at 8:16 AM, Charles Loving wrote: The Sequoia ( Lemon) seems to be lots of good money after bad. Trade it in on a brand new Yugo or Lada or maybe a Fiat? My 1983 Ford Bronco has over 700,000 miles and has never failed. The drive shaft fell off in Mexico once but I just wired it back and went on in two wheel. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention
David Locklear said he brought "loafer-shoes for the NSS Banquet", yet stated that he could only stay for a couple of days, leaving Tuesday or Wednesday. Since the banquet is not until Friday night, why waste weight and space on something you won't be using? Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] April 29, 2029
David, All you have to do is go on a real caving expedition to a remote area like Purificación or Cheve. Those places have no Internet and no cell service. There are no stores and no services. You're on your own. We do that for way more than one day per year. Of course, we're prepared and we know we can get back to 'civilization' soon enough, but it's no big deal to spend a while off the grid. Even some of our field houses in Virginia and West Virginia are off the grid. It's no big deal. (Catching up on old email after a month in Mexico) Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net On Tue, 30 Apr, 2019 at 1:29 AM, David wrote: Just for fun. Mark your calendars. 4-29-2029 In case you have not heard, one of the potential candidates for leader of the free world, allegedly stated publicly that civilization as we know it only has 10 years left. [ Disclaimer: I do not know if he actually said that ] But just for fun, I would like to talk about they dystopian view of that. Would the people with emergency bunkers survive till 2039 ? What kind of foods should I start hoarding ? Granola Bars ? Energy Bars ? Powdered Milk ? Vitamins ? Cereal ? I like pickles. Once the internet goes down and cell-phone signals stop broadcasting, how could any millennial not resist the urge to jump off a tall bridge ? I would propose we have one day per year, where everything we know is turned off. The entire human race would be off the grid for 24 hours. On that day, money should be worthless, and it would be illegal for even a doctor to operate, or an ambulance to drive. I am fairly certain the troublemakers of the world would immediately start pillaging and worse, especially in densely populated areas were crime is already prevalent, like Chicago, and Baltimore. What are some good caves that a group of cavers could live in ? How long could 10 cavers live in Cave Without a Name without ever coming to the surface ? Even if he is wrong by 100 years, it is obvious some mammals are going to go extinct. Probably the amur leopard, gorillas, sea turtles, etc. With each one going extinct, will it bring man-kind closer to extinction. I can see lots of ethnic groups becoming extinct, within 100 years, or at least forced to procreate with outsiders to their ethnic group. The Brazilian Akuntsu tribe probably won't make it to 2029. The Indian island tribe, Jarawa, probably won't make it a hundred years. Lets imagine that he is 100% correct. What sequence of events would happen ? I would say, that gov't would fail to react to emergencies such as a hurricane, or earthquake. Riot would be common place. It would be too dangerous to travel, especially at night. Businesses like movie theaters, restaurants would close and those workers would not be able to find work. Electricity would be intermittent and blackouts would be daily occurrences. Food would taste lousy, or even give you an upset stomach. Grocery stores would look like those in Russia in 1992. Dozens of nations would be like Venezuela. Recession and hyperinflation would get worse each day. Most gas stations would have limited supply if any products to sale, and would be closed most of the time. If you have never seen the movie, "Soylent Green," now would be a good time to watch it. David ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Roadtrip from Houston - Part 2
David, Its time to start planning for Cookville, Tenn.You got lots of time to make and save the few dollars that you will need.Check those tires and get that car mechanically up to speed. Try to stay longer than a day. I wish you the best.Mark On Saturday, March 16, 2019, 2:15:09 AM CDT, David wrote: From David LocklearHit delete button real hard ( probably 2 or 3 times ) It looks like my tentative road-trip is a washout. I looked up synonyms for"dud," and came up with: kaput, unsound, defective, faulty, and bust. I am not sure what the correct speleo-term is for this, but the symptomsare identical and equivalent to E.D. But a capsule of sildenafilcitrate will not fix it. So I am going to coin the phrase: "speleo-kaput." For when at the verylast minute, you cancel your trip. This seems appropriate, since I have readcavers use the term "kaput," on various occasions. I managed to get my Sequoia loaded up. I had winter-clothing, a cot,a tent ( I think I had the right poles ), but no fly, a good sleeping bagand mattress, small ice chest, most of my new LED lanterns, and a tiny bit of imaginary cash ( meaning some bill payments were postponed ), and plenty of snacks and beverages, nice table and chair, and a extra-large duffel bag. Just saying, I wasn't totally unprepared, as I often have been in the past few years. I had what can only be described as spelunking gear, although it didinclude a large Swaygo pack, real caving boots, and a decent Walmartheadlamp and 2 back-up headlamps, and extra batteries and Gatoradeand energy bar, gloves, elbow pads and clothing suitable for a few hoursin a dry cave. Where my caving helmet is - only Oztotl knows.It is surely boxed up in my rental storage unit - at least one or two layers beneathall the stuff I crammed in there after Hurricane Harvey. In theory, I could have stayed a seven-hour drive from Houston til Monday evening. My sixth sense ( which is normally quite accurate ), was subtly indicatingto me that the stars had not aligned in my favor. So I sit here now, at 2 a.m., sulking with a non-alcholic Fentimans Ginger Beer andeating a bowl of ramon-noodle soup, mixed with a can of sardines, andvarious seeds, wondering what is Plan "B," for the remainder of what isessentially my 2019 Spring Break. There is a pretty good chance that I can visit my daughter briefly Saturday nightand I have not really been able to spend any quality time with her since school started. And maybe some on Sunday too. She did indicate she is looking forward to thatvisit, as she just called me two hours ago. Ironically, I think I may have had a place to stay in Thackerville, Oklahoma on Saturdayand Sunday night, and even a free dinner or breakfast, had I not tentatively planned to gocamping. That was sort of a Plan "C," or Plan "D." For the record, I did try my best to get 2 old Houston cavers off the sofa today, andeven tried to coerce my now estranged lady-friend to tag along. She dumped meon Valentine's Day. ( I really didn't think I was supposed to get her a present ), butI did spend the day with her and take her to dinner. Isn't that enough ? We sortof made up, at least enough to take her on a road-trip. So assuming I don't waste any money this weekend, and assuming work goes well thenext two weeks, then I should be able to plan a road-trip to Kerrville in early April, if Ican get off work that weekend. Maybe by then, I will have my Sequoia, more road-ready. D.L. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] TCMA at Spring Convention
Linda,Do you have an address we can send donations?I have several caving t shirts and books to donate.Thanks!Mark Alman Sent from my Virgin Mobile Phone. Original message From: Linda Palit Date: 3/5/19 7:44 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] TCMA at Spring Convention The TCMA Spring Members meeting will be at the TSA Spring Convention at noon on Saturday, April 6, at the campground near where the talks will be held. Saturday night will be the TCMA Auction. We will be posting more about items to be auctioned soon. We are collecting donations. Sunday morning will be the TCMA Breakfast. Please bring your own cups, plates and silverware for the breakfast; suggested donation is $5. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Possible WNS Treatment
Interesting, Thanks Mark.M. On Saturday, February 2, 2019, 9:05:32 AM CST, mmin...@caver.net wrote: NPR recently ran a story about a potential treatment for White Nose Syndrome in bats: <https://www.npr.org/2019/01/22/687527856/biologists-test-promising-treatments-for-bats-threatened-by-fungal-disease>. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Highline Rope Sale
For a brief period, Highline Rope is offering a limited number of 600-foot spools of 10- or 11-mm rope for $250 or 1200-foot spools for $500. That's only $0.42 per foot. If interested contact m...@highlineropes.com. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Notes on GPS, GNSS, and GIS for Cavers
Bill, Thanks for the info on GPS, GIS, etc. For the past couple of years, Tommy Shifflett has been using the Bad Elf GPS unit to get accurate entrance locations in the Huautla area. He has been quite satisfied with the results. See his articles in AMCS Activities Newsletter 37, p. 67, 2016, NSS News 74(12), p. 10, December 2016 and NSS News 75(12), p. 31, December 2017. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net On Thu, 27 Sep, 2018 at 12:02 AM, William R. Elliott wrote: Attached is a pdf article I wrote for the Texas Cavers list. Here are some notes on tablets, cell phones, GPS (Global Positioning System), and apps that cavers might use for cave projects, especially apps that are free or not too pricey. GPS and GIS (Geographic Information System) are my sub-hobby within caving. I recently experimented with the Bad Elf GPS Pro and a Windows tablet among other things. The procedures to make these things work together are not completely spelled out in the user manuals, so I had to figure things out by testing. New devices are coming on the market. Maybe this article will save readers some time, and I welcome discussion of these topics. Thanks, see y'all at TCR, William R. (Bill) Elliott speodes...@gmail.com<mailto:speodes...@gmail.com> 573-291-5093 cell ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halitetites
Everything you might want to know about the Bex salt mines is at their official web site <https://www.seldesalpes.ch/en/salt-mines/>. Mark On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 8:45 PM, J Lyles wrote: Cool, i know where Bex is, not far from Montreaux and Lac Leman right? I go to that area frequently for work. Is it in the valley floor or up on the cliffs in mountains? On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Mark Minton mailto:mmin...@illinoisalumni.org>> wrote: Another interesting salt mine to visit is the one at Bex, Switzerland. I went there in 1993-4. You can ride a miniature train through the workings and see antique equipment and workings. Everything gets encrusted with salt. The mine is still active today. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Dwight wrote: Yes. We were at Turda a couple of years ago. It's spectacular as the salt has flowed plastically and is highly contorted. The "theme park" is a bit bizarre when you see it in person! Dirtdoc From: "Harvey DuChene" To: "Dwight" , jerryat...@aol.com, "Cave Texas" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:41:26 AM Subject: RE: [SWR CAVERS] Halitetites In 1998 or 1999, Kathy and I visited Romania and went to the salt mine at Turda in the Transylvanian Alps. The mine is very old, and I believe salt was being extracted as early as 900 bce. Tectonic forces have seriously contorted the bedding, and halite stalactites have preferentially grown along some of the bedding planes (see photo). Since our visit almost 20 years ago, the mine has been turned into and underground theme park. Search on “salina turda” to see what the place looks like today. Harv [Salina Turda salt mine in Romania reopens as theme park] ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Halitetites
Another interesting salt mine to visit is the one at Bex, Switzerland. I went there in 1993-4. You can ride a miniature train through the workings and see antique equipment and workings. Everything gets encrusted with salt. The mine is still active today. Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Dwight wrote: Yes. We were at Turda a couple of years ago. It's spectacular as the salt has flowed plastically and is highly contorted. The "theme park" is a bit bizarre when you see it in person! Dirtdoc From: "Harvey DuChene" To: "Dwight" , jerryat...@aol.com, "Cave Texas" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:41:26 AM Subject: RE: [SWR CAVERS] Halitetites In 1998 or 1999, Kathy and I visited Romania and went to the salt mine at Turda in the Transylvanian Alps. The mine is very old, and I believe salt was being extracted as early as 900 bce. Tectonic forces have seriously contorted the bedding, and halite stalactites have preferentially grown along some of the bedding planes (see photo). Since our visit almost 20 years ago, the mine has been turned into and underground theme park. Search on “salina turda” to see what the place looks like today. Harv [Salina Turda salt mine in Romania reopens as theme park] ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention nostagia
From a friend. Stay Home and get a better job. There's next year in Cookville Tenn.Try to come and enjoy the whole convention.On Saturday, July 21, 2018, 8:39:23 PM CDT, David wrote: In reference to a recent post by a caver skipping the convention. I am tonight pondering for the first time, what it would take to at least attendthe convention for 1 or 2 days. Sunday and Monday ? My problem ( as if I only had one ), is that I seem to have a 4 day window right now, where I could make aserious road-trip, but that would leave me missing all the official NSS activities. I have mentioned this before here, but my first convention was the 1994 Conventionin Texas, and that was a whole lot of fun, but some would say that it was just way toohot for such a gathering. My next convention spoiled me because I got to go on a realcaving trip into Cass Cave, West Virginia before the convention, and since it was atthe official OTR site, a whole lot of fun was had. At each convention, I had somemishaps of some kind, that offset the fun. In Texas, I got real sick after the convention,and spent a lot of money being treated and missed a lot of work. In West Virginia, I arrivedat the airport in Charleston, totally unprepared to hitchhike to the campground, and I think whenI got there I had trouble getting in because I had not pre-registered, and I had a difficult timegetting back to the airport ( Roy Wessel came to the rescue ). In Maine, I had the very besttime of my life. The only mishap I recall, is that a lot of effort was made to see Acadia NationalPark, but it was so foggy when I got there, that I might as well just stayed home and stuck myface in the car's exhaust pipe. In Marquette, I missed my plane, not realizing it was the last plane,that day, and a caver who is on this list serve went above the call of duty to rescue me. In Huntsville, 2005, my wife had an accident at the campground, tripping over the tent wire causing our9 month old baby to fly thru the air and nearly landing on a tent stake hitting her head on the cornerof a lounge-chair. In Porterville, I made the mistake of trying to pick-up a rider in LA on the way back, and drive themback to Houston. That was a nightmare. My road-trip to Vermont was just pure H*ll, there andback, and I was only at the Convention about 4 hours at most, an hour of that was just trying to getsomeone to let me in as registration had closed. Nevada would have been more fun, had I realizedmy car problems were simple radiator cap. And last year, my trip with cowpoke and Mystery Caverto Albuquerque was bad, until I blew a head-gasket only to learn that that requires replacing a V8 motorwhich was over $ 10,000 by the time I got my Sequoia back. In summary, I have a vague idea that even though I would probably have a hoot in Helena, that somethingbad would happen similar to the stuff above. I had a Craigslist ride offer today out of Houston, but itwas very very shady. We played phone tag all day, and they were just too vague for my suspicions, andthere was absolutely no way that I could get off work this afternoon. Anyways, Part of the nostalgia of going is getting to meet with cavers like Mr. Fleming, so if he and his friends or colleaguesare not there, then that will be a bummer. The chances of me going caving on this trip are less than winningthe 493 million dollar Mega Millions all by myself. On the subject of "Bang for the Buck" or value of what you get for the money spent, it is true, I could find somethingfun to do for a few hundred dollars closer to home, and not miss much work. I am guessing there will be 200 cavers from areas like Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, and other PNW areas, along with Canadians.And that those cavers, would probably not come to a convention like the one in Florida. Florida was a mud pit, but the tubing was soawesome on the Ichetuckenee River. I decided on that float trip, that I was going to tell the machine shop foremen,( where I had been temporarily working ) that he could take his job and shove it. That might have been a huge mistake,but I was about as senile that day, as I am today. And that is how I ended back up in the rut I have beenin for the past 9 or 10 years. I could easily spend a few days in the Ozarks in Arkansas just chilling. I could head south into Mexico,and go swimming somewhere like Micos. I could be more sensible and do something around the TexasHill Country. I purposely skipped the 1998 Convention, because my old friend Harry Walker ( R.I.P. ) and my new friend VictoriaArbizu-Sabateur wanted to climb 3 or 4 fourteeners near Aspen, and visit the hot springs, and go rafting thruSnider's Suckhole in Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas River and tour the commercial cave. That was oneof the best road-trips of my life, although it was severely marred by transmission failure in Harry's o
Re: [Texascavers] McNatt
That Suxs On Monday, July 9, 2018, 5:18:37 PM CDT, Nancy Weaver wrote: yikes. just sent him an email. thanks. Nancy On Jul 9, 2018, at 5:14 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote: Logan just called me. His computer was stolen while he was in Belize. So he isn't online for a while. Call him if you need to reach him. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
