[Texascavers] News from Bustamante

[William H. Russell]

Philip Russell (Bill Russell's brother) just 
visited Bustamante.  He spoke with Sr. Martín 
Rico, the superintendent of the Grutas de Palmito 
Park.  Sr. Rico said that he would roll out the 
welcome mat for any cavers who wanted to come 
visit the cave.  Sr. Rico can be contacted at the 
following phone number:  8291010143


--Philip Russell, via William
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] News from Bustamante

[William H. Russell]

Philip Russell (Bill Russell's brother) just 
visited Bustamante.  He spoke with Sr. Martín 
Rico, the superintendent of the Grutas de Palmito 
Park.  Sr. Rico said that he would roll out the 
welcome mat for any cavers who wanted to come 
visit the cave.  Sr. Rico can be contacted at the 
following phone number:  8291010143


--Philip Russell, via William
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] News from Bustamante

[William H. Russell]

Philip Russell (Bill Russell's brother) just 
visited Bustamante.  He spoke with Sr. Martín 
Rico, the superintendent of the Grutas de Palmito 
Park.  Sr. Rico said that he would roll out the 
welcome mat for any cavers who wanted to come 
visit the cave.  Sr. Rico can be contacted at the 
following phone number:  8291010143


--Philip Russell, via William
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

[William H. Russell]

The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive 
charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given 
up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we 
could see through to a bigger space.  We placed a charge (probably 
kinapak), and that broke it though.  I don't remember who was with 
me.  So it impassable and we dug on it, then used the chemical 
persuasion for the last bit to open it out.  We planned to return and 
open up the passage some more to make it bigger, but we couldn't 
decide which way to go, so we left it small and kinky.  >:-}   We had 
noticed there was an upper level there, and thought that might be the 
easier thing to enlarge.

wm


At 10:59 AM -0600 2/14/12, Preston Forsythe wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous 
route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with 
Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite 
needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a 
killer as the knees will not easily bend to accommodate the 
maneuver. Rumor is that passage was enlarged, somehow, by blasting?


As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the 
secondary entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is 
known as Roach's Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2 
Kirkwood and the huge numbers of roaches before I led the boric acid 
attack in the kitchen. Roach's Runway is another tight passage, 
similar to the entrance crawl in Airman's. However, The Wire Wiggle 
in the back of Airman's is way tighter than it's entrance crawl.


The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new 
connection at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under 
Flint Ridge. This tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce 
Hoffmaster on May 28, 2011. Donkey Cave became the Eleventh 
Connection to Mammoth Cave. If you have access, see Roger Brucker's 
write-up of this story in the Feb.. 2012 CRF Newsletter. I do not 
know if the crawl was named or not. It may be the Donkey Kong push 
(?) as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong Pit.


And, while I am running on:  how about that Drama in Lukina Jama in 
Crotia by Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the 
best caving stories I have read.



Cavingly,

Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
==

- Original Message -
From: speleoste...@aol.com
To: Preston Forsythe ; 
bmorgan...@aol.com ; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave

The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All 
Texas cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least 
once. We should have a club for those who have been through it.


Bill



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

[William H. Russell]

The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive 
charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given 
up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we 
could see through to a bigger space.  We placed a charge (probably 
kinapak), and that broke it though.  I don't remember who was with 
me.  So it impassable and we dug on it, then used the chemical 
persuasion for the last bit to open it out.  We planned to return and 
open up the passage some more to make it bigger, but we couldn't 
decide which way to go, so we left it small and kinky.  >:-}   We had 
noticed there was an upper level there, and thought that might be the 
easier thing to enlarge.

wm


At 10:59 AM -0600 2/14/12, Preston Forsythe wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous 
route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with 
Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite 
needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a 
killer as the knees will not easily bend to accommodate the 
maneuver. Rumor is that passage was enlarged, somehow, by blasting?


As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the 
secondary entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is 
known as Roach's Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2 
Kirkwood and the huge numbers of roaches before I led the boric acid 
attack in the kitchen. Roach's Runway is another tight passage, 
similar to the entrance crawl in Airman's. However, The Wire Wiggle 
in the back of Airman's is way tighter than it's entrance crawl.


The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new 
connection at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under 
Flint Ridge. This tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce 
Hoffmaster on May 28, 2011. Donkey Cave became the Eleventh 
Connection to Mammoth Cave. If you have access, see Roger Brucker's 
write-up of this story in the Feb.. 2012 CRF Newsletter. I do not 
know if the crawl was named or not. It may be the Donkey Kong push 
(?) as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong Pit.


And, while I am running on:  how about that Drama in Lukina Jama in 
Crotia by Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the 
best caving stories I have read.



Cavingly,

Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
==

- Original Message -
From: speleoste...@aol.com
To: Preston Forsythe ; 
bmorgan...@aol.com ; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave

The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All 
Texas cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least 
once. We should have a club for those who have been through it.


Bill



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

[William H. Russell]

The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive 
charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given 
up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we 
could see through to a bigger space.  We placed a charge (probably 
kinapak), and that broke it though.  I don't remember who was with 
me.  So it impassable and we dug on it, then used the chemical 
persuasion for the last bit to open it out.  We planned to return and 
open up the passage some more to make it bigger, but we couldn't 
decide which way to go, so we left it small and kinky.  >:-}   We had 
noticed there was an upper level there, and thought that might be the 
easier thing to enlarge.

wm


At 10:59 AM -0600 2/14/12, Preston Forsythe wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous 
route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with 
Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite 
needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a 
killer as the knees will not easily bend to accommodate the 
maneuver. Rumor is that passage was enlarged, somehow, by blasting?


As for other interesting cave passage names, I particularly like the 
secondary entrance name to Cool Springs Cave, KY. That crawlway is 
known as Roach's Runway. Reminds me of the old days at 1307 1/2 
Kirkwood and the huge numbers of roaches before I led the boric acid 
attack in the kitchen. Roach's Runway is another tight passage, 
similar to the entrance crawl in Airman's. However, The Wire Wiggle 
in the back of Airman's is way tighter than it's entrance crawl.


The current most incredible tight passage that I know of is the new 
connection at Mammoth Cave between Donkey Cave and Pohl Avenue under 
Flint Ridge. This tight virgin passage was pushed hard by Joyce 
Hoffmaster on May 28, 2011. Donkey Cave became the Eleventh 
Connection to Mammoth Cave. If you have access, see Roger Brucker's 
write-up of this story in the Feb.. 2012 CRF Newsletter. I do not 
know if the crawl was named or not. It may be the Donkey Kong push 
(?) as the lead was a drain out of the Donkey Kong Pit.


And, while I am running on:  how about that Drama in Lukina Jama in 
Crotia by Bruce White in the new Feb., 2012, NSS News. One of the 
best caving stories I have read.



Cavingly,

Preston in Muhlenberg Co., KY
==

- Original Message -
From: speleoste...@aol.com
To: Preston Forsythe ; 
bmorgan...@aol.com ; 
texascavers@texascavers.com

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Schetromph cave

The Wire Wiggle in Airman's. Now there's a noble destination. All 
Texas cavers should aspire to passing through its confines at least 
once. We should have a club for those who have been through it.


Bill



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] TCMA Award

[William H. Russell]

Dear All,
I was tongue-tied when it happened, but now i'm overdue to say thank 
you to TCMA for my award.


Thinking back on last weekend, mention was made of digging. 
Realizing that all TCMA caves in Travis County exist because they 
were dug out by cavers brings up the important of digging combined 
with karst inventories.  Therefore, ALWAYS cave softly and carry a 
crowbar.  Don't leave home without one -- if it blows, it goes, and a 
little persuasion never hurts.


Thanks to all,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] TCMA Award

[William H. Russell]

Dear All,
I was tongue-tied when it happened, but now i'm overdue to say thank 
you to TCMA for my award.


Thinking back on last weekend, mention was made of digging. 
Realizing that all TCMA caves in Travis County exist because they 
were dug out by cavers brings up the important of digging combined 
with karst inventories.  Therefore, ALWAYS cave softly and carry a 
crowbar.  Don't leave home without one -- if it blows, it goes, and a 
little persuasion never hurts.


Thanks to all,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] TCMA Award

[William H. Russell]

Dear All,
I was tongue-tied when it happened, but now i'm overdue to say thank 
you to TCMA for my award.


Thinking back on last weekend, mention was made of digging. 
Realizing that all TCMA caves in Travis County exist because they 
were dug out by cavers brings up the important of digging combined 
with karst inventories.  Therefore, ALWAYS cave softly and carry a 
crowbar.  Don't leave home without one -- if it blows, it goes, and a 
little persuasion never hurts.


Thanks to all,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] 9th Annual Austin Cave Festival announcement

[William H. Russell]

Folks, we're in desperate need of 12 cavers to help us w/this year's 
cave fest.  It's a one of a kind event, happens no where else or as 
well attended.  Please help us make this year another successful cave 
fest.
I'm so proud that cavers are so involved in this city wide event, 
oppps, it's now multi county wide invitations. So, drop me an email 
or call me and volunteer.


Julie: jjenk...@bseacd.org
512-289-1336, leave a mess w/your name and contact info,

This year's info:
Date:  Saturday, March 5, 2011
Time:  9:00am to 3:00pm
Location:  Village of Western Oaks Karst Preserve
More info: 
http://www.bseacd.org/events/austin-cave-festival/



Julie Jenkins
Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer Conservation District
Environmental Educator
1124 Regal Row
Austin, Tx 78748
off: 512.282.8441
cell: 512.289.1336
email: jjenk...@bseacd.org
website: www.bseacd.org
--

William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] 9th Annual Austin Cave Festival announcement

[William H. Russell]

--

Folks, we're in desperate need of 12 cavers to help us w/this year's 
cave fest.  It's a one of a kind event, happens no where else or as 
well attended.  Please help us make this year another successful cave 
fest.
I'm so proud that cavers are so involved in this city wide event, 
oppps, it's now multi county wide invitations. So, drop me an email 
or call me and volunteer.


Julie: jjenk...@bseacd.org
512-289-1336, leave a mess w/your name and contact info,

This year's info:
Date:  Saturday, March 5, 2011
Time:  9:00am to 3:00pm
Location:  Village of Western Oaks Karst Preserve
More info: 
http://www.bseacd.org/events/austin-cave-festival/



Julie Jenkins
Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer Conservation District
Environmental Educator
1124 Regal Row
Austin, Tx 78748
off: 512.282.8441
cell: 512.289.1336
email: jjenk...@bseacd.org
website: www.bseacd.org


William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Fwd: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving

[William H. Russell]

Thread-Topic: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving
From: "Julie Jenkins" 
To: "William H. Russell" 

Did I ask you to post this on cavetex? If not, could you put this link up?

Subject: FW: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving

https://agrilifebookstore.org/publications_details.cfm?whichpublication=2837




--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Help request: Move the brush pile

[William H. Russell]

OK, Folks,
our neighborhood is having its large brush collection on 28 June. 
Katie and William are drowning in large brush -- in better years, 
William would have cut, compacted, and composted it, but that just 
didn't happen this year.  Right now there's the better part of a 
loosely packed small dumpster out on the west 40 (AKA backyard).


Would anyone be interested in helping us cut, haul, and stack on 
Saturday, 26th, starting in the AM?  It's lugustrum, chinaberry, and 
pecan windfall.  Most of the damage would be cutting things no more 
than 8" in diameter to the legal size of 6 feet, but we also have 
stuff that would appeal to chain saw enthusiasts  (a 20-foot downed 
chinaberry, very very dry, and a couple of large limbs to be lopped 
off of trees in places where they are likely to fall on people), if 
you bring your own chainsaw.


Contact me and katie (k.ar...@mail.utexas.edu) off-list if you'd like 
to devote a couple or four hours to the cause.We can provide 
beverages, but only one pruning hook and saw, so bring handtools if 
you have them.


thanks,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] New TCMA Manager for Punkin/Deep Preserve.

[William H. Russell]

The TCMA Board is very pleased to announce that a new manager has 
been chosen for the Punkin and Deep Preserve:  Don Arburn, a 
long-time member of the TCMA Board. He will pick up the work at the 
preserve that Geary Schindel has done since its purchase, and 
continue toward the goal of making the preserve a premiere 
destination for Texas caving.  Thank you, Don, for taking up the 
stewardship of this important property.  (And thanks again to Geary 
for his years of work.)


-william russell, tcma president

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] something silly on web

[William H. Russell]

Mixon,
	Don't be too negative about the Indians, their English isn't 
the best but they are trying to do good, and that should be rewarded. 
Besides, they have some useful concepts.  In the section on Kotumsar 
Cave they introduce the idea of "anthropogenic pressure." 
Anthropogenic pressure is reducing the biodiversity.  This term 
should replace carrying capacity as it sounds more serious and much 
more scientific. We in Texas could work with this idea, and make it 
even better.  First we need units so we can measure the anthropogenic 
pressure.  Let us define one Mixon as the pressure [impact] produced 
by one person visiting the cave and acting on one sq. m of the cave 
footprint each year.  Anthropogenic pressure has units of 
people/year/sq meter.   We can evaluate Texas caves and see what we 
find. We might find that caves over, say 5 Mixons are environmentally 
hopeless and might as well be abandoned. 
Bill Russell


--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Sonora Butterfly guide guide talk

[William H. Russell]

My favorite guide story is scientifically accurate.  I think it came 
from Sonora.  The tour enters a small room and the guide stops the 
tour and announces "You are now in a very special place, this room is 
directly above the center of the earth." I have used this in trips 
with groups through Whirlpool Cave, and several appeared astonished. 
(Though I suppose I can't really say and be totally truthful that 
science supports that being directly above the center of the earth 
makes a cave room special, but the room IS directly above the center 
of the earth.)

Bill Russell
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Mapping the underground

[William H. Russell]

Carol Russell passed this on to me from the Maps, Air Photo & GIS Form:

Call for papers - 2010 RGS-IBG Annual International Conference,
1-3rd September 2010, London, UK

Mapping Underground
Representing Subterranean Spaces, Practices and Cultures

Session organisers:
Martin Dodge and Chris Perkins
Geography, School of Environment & Development, University of Manchester

Context:
What lies beneath the ground is hidden and usually unrepresented but is
vital for many spaces and practices occurring above. In these concealed
and largely impenetrable subterranean spaces lurk unknown dangers and the
possibilities for adventurous exploration; moreover they serve as
potentially profitable resources, as engineering challenges to overcome,
as risks to be mapped and managed, as a spring of spiritual well-being or
the site of death and burial, as the source of artefacts of the human past
to be recovered and conserved, and as a scientific record of geologic
histories. The diversity of subterranean spaces, practices and cultures
have attracted scholarly attention including concern for symbolic and
multi-layered mythologies of representation (Rosalind Williams, David
Pike), the strangely sublime nature of underground infrastructures like
drains and ducts (Paul Dobraszczyk, Geoff Manaugh), the psychic anxieties
of the unmappable underground (Steve Pile), the political economy and
social ecology of subterranean facilities and flow (Matthew Gandy, Maria
Kaika). Beyond the academy there is also burgeoning 'amateur' interest in
charting the subterranean extent of cities (with substantial books
documenting the arcane underground features of, for example, Liverpool,
London, Manchester and Manhattan), along with obsessive collecting
behaviour of enthusiasts mapping out all the tunnels and 'lost' stations,
and recording war-time bunkers, emergency shelters and other forgotten
subterranean heritage.
	On most topographic maps the representation of space stops at 
the ground

level but there are many specialised geographic visualizations of the
underground. Examples include colourful and cryptically labelled
geological maps, complex engineering plans of tunnels and sewers,
volumetric models, and profiles of strata employed in oil exploration and
mineral extraction, geo-physical subsurface displays produced with
reflected mapping of radar and sound waves penetrating the solid ground
surface. We seek theoretically informed papers that consider how and why
the underground has been mapped (and not mapped), relating characteristics
of subterranean spaces to different forms of representational practice and
visual culture.

Proposed papers with a title and short abstract (250 words maximum) should
be submitted to Martin Dodge (m.do...@manchester.ac.uk) by 31 January
2010. Further details on conference are at www.rgs.org/AC2010

This announcement was somewhat abbreviated for Texascavers.  These 
people have a strange idea of the underground.  Cavers need to show 
them them how to map the real underground.

Bill Russell



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Mural Cave

[William H. Russell]

Freddie,
	Your question about about Mural Cave brings back memories. 
When I fist arrived in Austin, Mural Cave was one of the first caves 
I visited.   The Austin White lime Co. had provided a road to the 
cave, a ladder to descend the entrance drop, and a picnic table for 
the visitors.  I first met T.R. Evans in Mural Cave and then 
introduced him to organized caving.  But times change and the 
landowner no longer lets anyone on the property unless they have 
official business so the landowner is no longer responsible.  A few 
biologists visited Mural Cave in the 90's as part of environmental 
surveys needed as parts of the property were developed.  No visits 
that I know of in recent years.
	It was a fun cave. I remember one trip where we parked by the 
entrance, and then climbed down the first few feet on the ladder and 
realized the we were parked on the center of the thin roof of the 
large cave room.  We exited the cave and slowly drove our cars back 
about a hundred feet.  The cave will probably end up as a small 
preserve in a subdivision.  It is unlikely there will be any money to 
manage the cave, but perhaps the TCC or the Williamson County 
Foundation will take it on as a project.

Bill Russell



William,
   I have also been wondering about Mural cave. This was a well 
decorated cave in the McNeil area that I visited in 1974 or so. It 
had a fifteen or twenty foot cable ladder drop for an entrance. Has 
this cave been taken into management by T.C.C. or anyone else? Does 
anyone even know where it is anymore?


--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] bandit cave

[William H. Russell]

Freddie,
	The current owner is very protective of Bandit cave and it 
not using it as a dump.  He is somewhat (in my view) overprotective 
and has not even let biologists into his cave to study the biology, 
but he is protecting the cave.  For several years prior to the 
current owner acquiring the cave the cave was used for neighborhood 
parties, especially on Halloween, and when the new owner took over he 
was under pressure to continue this tradition.  He resisted, and this 
experience is probably is what lead to the current very restrictive 
access policy.  The cave is still there, but checking it out would be 
difficult as the cave has a stout steel door, and we need use caver 
requests for access carefully, at first they should be for 
worthwhile studies; and then we can build a relation with the 
landowner.  There are digging leads in the cave, but they were pushed 
in the past to where the diggers gave up.

Bill Russell





Geoff and Aimee's post about the showing of the Austin Cavers movie 
at their house reminded me of a cave that I haven't heard anything 
about in thirty years. Bandit cave is an ex-commercial cave in 
Rollingwood that was in a vacant lot only three blocks from Geoff 
and Aimee's house. The last time I checked, it appeared the lot was 
still vacant and being used as a neighborhood yard waste dump. This 
cave had two entrances, one of which was a large steel door that was 
the commercial entrance. It was wired for lighting which was 
non-functioning as of my last visit in 1978. It had standing room in 
it and several crawling leads. An ex-mayor of Austin claims that the 
cave had a crawlway that exited at lake Austin in the cliffs above 
Redbud isle. Has anyone done anything recently with it? Any 
conservation efforts, or landowner contact?



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] unorganized diatribe

[William H. Russell]

	Ediger has long thought there are large numbers of unknown 
"cavers" that can be brought into organized caving, with a benefit 
both to both groups.  This has not proved to be the case.  For many 
years Ediger preached that we should reach out to the unorganized by 
including them in the TSA weather they knew it or not.  To do this he 
watered down the membership requirements of the TSA to essentially 
anyone who had thought about going into a cave.  The inability of the 
TSA to define their membership, collect dues, and perform other 
essential functions finally made the TSA abandon this idea. 
	Curiosity is a basic human attribute, and across Texas many 
people who hear about a local cave will go out to explore.  They 
aren't cavers, they are just curious.  The vast majority have no 
interest in spending time learning more about caves, joining a 
grotto, or anything else that would make them a caver.  A very few do 
find caves to be of special interest, and thanks to the internet can 
quickly and easily find out about organized caving.  And, organized 
caving should be ready to welcome them.  This is organized caving's 
obligation to the unorganized. 
	To spend money, time and resources to attempt to reach 
everyone who has an even fleeting interest in caves will not benefit 
organized cavers or anyone else.  Most people, even in rural areas, 
are slightly interested in many things.  They go to the movies, but 
do not want to join a film club.  They take pictures, but do not want 
to join a photography club.  To be a caver one should have a special 
interest in caves.  These are the people who will train the new 
generation of cavers and carry on the traditions of caving.  These 
are the people who will keep caving from becoming an "introverted 
little clique." 
	Ediger needs to realize that there is not "a much larger 
number of Texas cavers" that can be organized into productive members 
of the TSA.  If we want to be worthy of the idea of organized caving, 
we need to welcome and encourage the new cavers that come forward.  I 
think this will provide enough challenge to these who actually want 
to "get somewhere."

Bill Russell


--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Cave Makes Front Page

[William H. Russell]

	In the center front page of the October 9, 2008 Austin 
American Statesman is a large photo of the entrance to Possumhaw Cave 
in Hays County.  And, it did not make the news due to an accident or 
collapse, but because of a successful effort to preserve land that 
helps recharge the Edwards Aquifer.  The article below the photo 
talks about the recent effort to protect 2,252 acres in northern Hays 
County from development with a $9.9 million conservation easement.
	The article emphasizes the contribution of sinkholes to 
direct recharge of the Barton Springs Segment of the Edwards Aquifer. 
Cavers have been active in documenting the caves and sinkholes on the 
property, along with the City of Austin and the Barton 
Springs/Edwards Aquifer Conservation District.  The Austin American 
Web site even has a video of Julie Jenkins leading a tour of the 
ranch. This project should help protect the aquifer and as an added 
benefit some of the land will be open for public access and 
education.  Check out the article at: 
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/09/1009ranch.html

Bill Russell
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Airman's Cave Video

[William H. Russell]

Airman's Cave Videos:

Caves should be part of public knowledge.  The public cannot be 
expected to protect or value caves if they don't know they exist.  
Cavers are a force for the good in protecting the karst, and without 
public awareness of caves, in the future there will be no cavers.  
This will be a loss not only for the potential cavers who will live a 
less fulfilled life, but also for the caves that suffer without the 
support form their friends.  But not all types of publicity are 
helpful.  Good publicity provides information and directs people to 
organized caving, bad publicity presents the cave as a challenge and 
says come and conquer, if you can.  Unfortunately, the Airman's 
videos tend to be more of the second type.  They do provide some 
information on safe caving, but there is no mention of organized 
caving, and the cave is presented essentially as a physical 
challenge.  This type of publicity tends to attract extreme sport 
thrill seekers.  The here-is-where-the-cave-is focus of the video 
undercuts the message to go with someone who knows the cave.  The 
producers of the Airman's video might intend to appeal only to the 
best, but they have essentially issued a challenge to everyone.  To 
put this in perspective, think of what the video would be like if the 
producers actually owned the cave.  And, the City of Austin does own 
the cave, and the people in charge do worry about abuse of the cave.  
The recent Airman's video will increase their desire to have positive 
control over who visits their cave.


The cost of cave "rescues" has long been an item for discussion, 
especially after newspaper reports of a rescue.  While much of the 
discussion is about how one does the accounting, cave rescues 
actually are expensive.  In the last Airman's Cave "Rescue" there 
were at least ten city employees who worked an additional day of 
overtime.  These were the most necessary and cave-worthy of the city 
employees who could not be replaced when their shift was over.  Not 
to mention the use of equipment and supplies.  And, if someone were 
to say that it did not cost the city anything to fight a fire because 
the fireman would have been paid even if there weren't a fire, most 
people would think this was not productive thinking.  If fires are 
not considered cost fee, neither should cave rescues.  But, the real 
problem is that our society is so risk adverse that any problem, as 
lost in a cave, is apt to be met with drastic solutions -- close up 
those dangerous caves.  Cavers know better, but private owners and 
the city are likely to take the easy way to solve the "problem" of 
caves.  
Bill Russell


--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention

[William H. Russell]

 >


 I am looking forward to the day when the NSS Photo Salon is shown
 live on my 65 inch LCD TV in my living room, along with the
 exploration
 programs, and video salon, etc.


 David Locklear


The opinions offered below are my own.
I hope the NSS never shows the photo salon or any other convention
activities live.  NSS membership retention (not recruitment as many would
have you believe) is way down.  From the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s, the
NSS Convention had attendance that was equivalent to 20% of the
membership.  Since 1976, the largest convention has been equivalent to
14% of the membership and many have been under 10%, although at least one
flaw in my model is the fact that membership retention did not plummet
until 1995 (Does anybody know what it was the NSS did in 1995 or possibly
1994 to so disaffect its members?)  It is my opinion that membership
retention is affected strongly by personal interaction among the members.
 Convention attendance is one of main things that separates a committed
member from a magazine subscriber.  The NSS can not thrive by having any
number of subscribers to the NSS; there are way too many activities that
the NSS depends on volunteers to run.  Voting generally tracks the
attendance at the previous convention.

I believe that conventions are the glue that holds the NSS together and
we need more glue, not less.  The more one can get the benefits of
convention without attending and having the personal interactions of
actually attending, the poorer the NSS will be.  People who routinely
attend NSS conventions are more likely to volunteer their time, donate
their money, and vote for Directors.

Philip L. Moss
Former NSS Director and recovering speleopolitician
philipm...@juno.com



	On the other hand perhaps the decline in NSS retention post 
1995 is because the NSS directorate is holding on to a rosy nostalgia 
of driving across the country to meet their friends at a convention 
as the glue that holds the NSS together; while the general society is 
moving to digital interaction. Cavers along with everyone else 
increasingly see little need for everyone to gather in one place; and 
perhaps, given the time and expense as even counterproductive. 
Retention in any group is affected strongly by personal interaction 
between the members, but having to drive across the country to do 
this would appear to be a strategic weakness. 
	In the digital age one should not have to attend a convention 
to be a "committed member."  It might be to increase retention we 
need to find directors that are more comfortable with digital 
interaction.  They will spend the time and energy to make the digital 
NSS more than a magazine subscription. 
Bill Russell





Save on Cell Phones. Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nRN16uIMOfB5d9pqWzIGDj3k34ppBEmbCU3nNm4idzRCCtx/

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Religion

[William H. Russell]

	I think any worthwhile form of religion should involve caves, 
but I am not clear on B Morgan's distinction between "illusory" forms 
of religion and the non-illusory forms.  If the "forms" are written 
down in a book and a large church built, does this make the forms 
less illusory?  Please explain.

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Airman's Cave Access

[William H. Russell]

	Airman's Cave is in the City of Austin Barton Creek 
Greenbelt.  It is one of the few caves of any size in Texas that one 
can just visit whenever the urge strikes.  Many of us old time cavers 
think an open access cave is a wonderful thing, and have worked hard 
to convince the city not to put a gate on the cave.  We are helped by 
the city agreement with the climbers to manage the climbing areas in 
the greenbelt.  That agreement has worked well (even though there 
have been several climbing accidents).  Thus the city is inclined to 
let cavers set the policy for Airman's Cave.
	Not only is an open access cave an amenity for the citizens 
of Austin; even considering all the rescues, there is much less work 
administrating the cave than if everyone wanting to visit the Aggie 
Art Gallery had to contact someone and work out access.  And, if we 
let people conduct there own trips there would probably be 
considerably more call outs when people forget to check back in than 
under the current system.  But, if only approved trip leaders could 
take trips, this would be an even bigger drain on caver time and 
effort.  All you Republican wanna-bes who think that the answer is 
more control--lock it up and we won't have to worry--will only cause 
more work and less caving.

Bill Russell
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Airman's Cave Search Canceled

[William H. Russell]

There was a short call out for a search in Airman's Cave on Monday 
afternoon, in which cavers did well, we had several cavers on the way 
in about a half hour.  The search was canceled before most of them 
could reach the cave.
	The Austin Amarican-Statesman for March 11, page B2 
summarized the situation:


Cave search to find 2 canceled
	A search-and-rescue mission at Airman's cave was called off 
before it started Monday afternoon after the two men believed to be 
missing were found elsewhere unharmed.
	The men, both in their late 20s, had entered the cave on 
Sunday, telling a friend to call 911 if they were not out by 1 p.m. 
Monday, said Frank Urias, division commander with Austin-Travis 
County Emergency Medical Services.  But the men neglected to inform 
their friend they had made it out safely Sunday night, and the friend 
called for help about 4:20 p.m. Urias said.
	Officials would not identify the men, but said one was from 
Austin and the other was from out of state.
	In October, rescuers searched for 11 hours to find three 
University of Texas students who got lost in the cave, which runs 
parallel to South Lamar Boulevard.


--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] 50 Years & Curmudgeons

[William H. Russell]

Book review readers,
	Not to excuse Carl Kunath's curmudgeonly tendencies, when you 
live out where he does being a curmudgeon is necessary for survival. 
And Mixon, whose curmudgeon credentials are celebrated, at least 
among the literate cavers, should know a curmudgeon when he 
encounters one.  But I think there is a real change from the 'good 
old days' to the present. Its not that there haven't been any 
world-class discoveries lately; it is that the original discoveries 
in both Texas and Mexico where wholly unique unexpected wonders. 
They were beyond cavers conceptual framework.  All we could think of 
is "what have we here?"  The experience of marvelous discovery is 
heady stuff, resulting in an Alice in Wonderland experience that is 
hard to equal. 
	And now, many years later, we realize that these discoveries 
defined the categories of caves.  Many of them are still outstanding 
in a worldwide context.  But with a worldwide understanding comes a 
loss of wonder.  Another Caverns of Sonora will now just be a good 
example of a well-decorated cave.  A time of unexpected and mind 
stretching discoveries is rare in any field, but lamenting its 
passage does not make one a curmudgeon.


Bill Russell

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Silver Mine Pass

[William H. Russell]

Google does have some interesting information on Silver Mine 
Pass-check:  http://www.forttours.com/pages/hmuvalde.asp#silver

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] Airman's cave Rescue

[William H. Russell]

Cavers:
Every one is out of the cave safe. Good cooperation between the fire 
department and cavers.  The first search team of Drew and Slone 
Thompson (Search team 1) went in after only two hours sleep and 
searched back to the Wire Wiggle and ran out of energy.  Bill Russell 
and Jullie Jenkins (Search Team 2) checked side passages and guided 
the firemen laying a telephone line though the cave.  Just after Drew 
and Slone passed us on the way out Mike Sisson and one of the firemen 
(Search team 3) passed Bill and Jule and and started searching at the 
Wire Wiggle and found the lost cavers in the Poetry Passage.  Team 3 
started out and met us (Bill and Julie) at Sherwood Forest, we headed 
out to get the word to the firemen at  the end of the phone line, and 
every started to slow trip out of the cave.
	The people lost in the Poetry passage has planned well; left 
word when they were expected back, and even left a marked trail of 
green leaves; they had extra food and lights, and were in good 
spirits on the way out.  We told them to make amends for the rescue 
they needed to come to the next grotto meeting, and they accepted.

Bill Russell
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Cavers, Zeitgeist & Religion

[William H. Russell]

Cavers,
As cavers we have a special interest in civil rights and particularly 
the right of association with foreigners, of travel, and not to have 
a policy that isolates the US from the rest of the world.  The 
Zeitgeist video implies that the 9/11 disaster was orchestrated by 
the administration as an excuse to curtail our civil rights.  To tie 
the defense of civil rights to 9/11 conspiracy theories is a 
disservice to the defense of civil rights.  To get into the type of 
arguments they present about who is responsible for 9/11 appears to 
me to be an exercise in futility.  The producers of Zeitgeist are the 
true beliers and conspiracy is their religion.  But the 
administration that says, "trust me" you are in danger and we are 
doing only what is necessary is even worse (and they were elected.)


And, their critique of Christianity because of its similarity to 
previous religions is not compelling.  The problem with Noah's ark is 
not that other religions had floods with an ark, but that someone 
gathering all the animals of the world and building a boat to put 
them in strikes many people as a project unlikely to be successful. 
Bill Russell

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

[Texascavers] NEW TCMA Publication

[William H. Russell]

NEW from the TCMA:
The Capital Caver is a newsletter published occasionally by the TCMA 
to discuss issues of concern to Texas Cavers.  A new issue of the 
Capital Caver (Capital Caver Number 4) is now available as a PDF on 
the TCMA site. http://www.tcmacaves.org/ The new issue discusses the 
best methods of presenting data on the numerous small Texas caves, 
the different biological habitats in the Barton Springs Segment of 
the Edwards Aquifer, along with some lighter material.  And even 
better yet, the pervious issues (Capital Caver Numbers 1, 2 and 3) 
are now also available from the TCMA site as PDFs.  Be informed 
--read them all.

Bill Russell
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

Re: [Texascavers] Caves on Mars in the news

[William H. Russell]

The ethic for exploration has shifted just in my time of cave 
exploration.  To a much greater extent we now cave softly; no trash 
in caves, no names on walls.  But the greatest harm to the cave 
environment is not from exploration, it if from the activities of the 
non cave explorers.  Destructive land use, urban sprawl, and other 
environment ills do immensely more harm to the underground than all 
the cavers put together.  If cavers support conservation, through 
cave centered orginizations such as the TCMA, and being involved in 
local conservation efforts, cavers will do much more good than harm. 
Cave softly, but carry a big environmental stick. We will never know 
if the lava tubes on Mars have life until we explore them. Bill 
Russell

>I have always had mixed feelings about "cave houses". I know that any human
>activity in caves will have an impact. Caving by its very nature has an
>impact. We leave footprints and scuff marks. If we dig or move rocks; that
>changes things. If we survey--that has an impact. But at what point does the
>creation of a living dwelling (or exploration) within a cave become
>ecologically inappropriate ? What IF the lava tubes harbor whatever life
>there is clinging to existence on that red rock planet ? After we have
>plundered everything wild and pristine on this planet...then is it
>acceptable to do the same on another planet ? We have become much more
>effective in our means to explore. But It seems to me; that the paradigm and
>ethic for exploration has shifted very little in the last 20,000 years.
>Yeah---you could seal those lava tubes. But is it the right thing to do ?
>
>
>On 10/9/05 10:23 PM, "David Locklear"  wrote:
>
>>  New Mexico caver Penelope Boston was mentioned
>>  in this month's issue of Discover magazine about
>>  a proposal  to use the assumed lava tube caves on Mars
>>  to house future astronauts.  There is a sketch of the proposal which
>>  involves sealing the cave entrances and installing the
>>  living environment in the cave.
>>
>>  I think we need to try that on earth first.Any cavers
>>  up to it?
>>
>>
>>
>>  David Locklear
>>
>>
>>  ___
>>  Texascavers mailing list
>>  Texascavers@texascavers.com
>>  http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com
>
>
>___
>Texascavers mailing list
>Texascavers@texascavers.com
>http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com


-- 
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

___
Texascavers mailing list
Texascavers@texascavers.com
http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com

CaveTex: hillbilly as a geographic name

[William H. Russell]

I am sure cavers knew this from long experience, but now it is a 
scientific fact: geographic name research has found that Texas leads 
the nation in hillbilies, twice as many as any other state.   Or, 
more likely, Texas is proud of our hillbillies and does not hide 
them.  Cavers should do their part.  I will name the next cave I find 
"Hillbilly Cave," especially if it is full of ranch trash.  Wm.

--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net