Re: [Texascavers] The Wall

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

To provide slightly different viewpoint, population growth of course is slowing 
- in fact developed countries have already peaked in terms of their population 
curves - so fears of population surplus are probably unfounded - see 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-17/peak-population-growth or 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101018722

In fact the Western Europe is below replacement levels - Germany for example is 
at about 1.4 child per women - well below 2.1-2.2 needed to keep population 
stable.

And fertility rates are shrinking rapidly throughout the world in response to 
aftermath of global economic crisis of 2008. So likely projections of peak 
population are overstated David.

RK



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From: Texascavers  on behalf of David via 
Texascavers 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:25:48 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] The Wall

President Trump should build a humongous enormous gigantic "hollow" wall with 
cracks big enough for small mammals and birds to get in to.This would 
create a very beneficial buffer-zone / wildlife-refuge from the loss of 
important habitats as the population of the human race rapidly expands in the 
21st and 22nd Centuries.Think of it as a fake artificial reef or Noah's 
Ark.We could call it "The Majestic Trump Ark."

It is our last and only chance to save the coati and rare bats and other 
southwestern endangered species.

Please forward this email.

David Locklear
dlocklea...@gmail.com
NSS #27639

Please tell all your friends to click "Like" on my Facebook page to become 
U.S.Ambassador to Mexico.
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,
To channel old 'copperknob', insulting Heather means you have no heart, 
insulting me means you have no brain. But I am very sober this morning, and you 
are still very ugly inside.
Stop insulting people, you are not helping yourself or TSA by doing so. If you 
don't like the caver, volunteer to help the editor or take over it's duties in 
the future.
RK

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On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:41 AM -0500, "Jerry via Texascavers" 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:





RK,

As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a 
bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your Texas 
Cavers.

As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of 
late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes to 
the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't know if 
the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the editor in the 
past has ignored the advice that has been given her from several folks that 
actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat their heads against 
the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as you 
call it.

Jerry Atkinson (old coon).



-Original Message-----
From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
To: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)



Jerry,


You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic 
traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon.


You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas 
Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth.


RK


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_
From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
To:  <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Cc: <texascavers@texascavers.com> <texascavers@texascavers.com>



I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or 
climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate.


Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:




Jerry,


It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.


RK


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On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via 
Texascavers"<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:



What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.


Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem.


And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work.


You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.


And if you think folks don't n

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,  
You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic 
traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon.
You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas 
Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. 
RK
Get Outlook for iOS

_
From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
To:  <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Cc: <texascavers@texascavers.com> <texascavers@texascavers.com>


I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or 
climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate.
Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

Jerry,
It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.
RK

Get Outlook for iOS



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via 
Texascavers"<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.
Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. 
And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr 
work. 
You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.
And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, 
you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of 
our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and 
applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to 
put into their work.
This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and 
hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came 
before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're 
watching.
Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

Wow Jerry.  Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who has 
nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers positive 
criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with something 
they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts off aside 
from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that people have 
been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just to make you 
focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that most people don't 
know about (yet don't get help finding).  Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this 
group. 

-sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. 


On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

I am in awe.

Just a quick perusal of the cover says it a

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,
It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.
RK

Get Outlook for iOS




On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.

Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem.

And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work.

You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.

And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, 
you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of 
our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and 
applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to 
put into their work.

This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and 
hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came 
before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're 
watching.

Jerry Atkinson.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers 
 wrote:

> Wow Jerry.  Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who 
> has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers 
> positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with 
> something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts 
> off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that 
> people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just 
> to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that 
> most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding).
>
> Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group.
>
>
> -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary.
>
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
>> I am in awe.
>>
>> Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to 
>> return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that 
>> "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the  
>> municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands
>>
>> I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly 
>> all these years.  And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of 
>> some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least 
>> there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike 
>> most of the other articles.
>>
>> I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put 
>> forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles 
>> in the future despite this issue.
>>
>> Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before 
>> TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !"  

[Texascavers] Real alternative trip to the NSS Convention

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

After flurry of posts about NSS convention road trip, this is a real 
alternative report. Mark Gee made it there safe, drove straight from Dallas TX 
to Ely NV in 23 hours and 50 minutes, 1477 miles in total, if I heard it 
correctly on the phone- so averaging about 60 miles an hour. That's accounting 
for traffic in Las Vegas, which according to Mark slowed him down a bit.

So it can be done in one day, and can be done safely. It's not too late to get 
there,

RK

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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

The lesson here is that there is no free lunch when it comes to energy 
production.  And coal burning generates carbon dioxide - limiting agent for 
plant growth in certain regions of the world - so it's not all bad;). 
Particulate matter on the other hand, maybe not the greatest.
RK

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On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:49 AM -0500, "Bill Stephens via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





While 3 centuries of coal production has caused an enormous burden on the US 
environment, it fueled the industrial revolution which provided us with the 
leisure time to pursue cave exploration and the technological capability to 
have the discussion across the breath of a continent. With that said. as far as 
"coal-fired plants no longer needed", according to the EIA 35% of total US 
energy consumption in 2015 was from coal, while all Renewables (excluding 
biomass) produced less than 7.5%. "A 2013 study in the Wildlife Society 
Bulletin estimated that wind turbines killed about 888,000 bats and 573,000 
birds (including 83,000 raptors) in 2012.Since then US wind energy has 
increased by 24% and is expected to triple by 2030. The US wind industry is 
permitted to kill 4200 Bald Eagles annually, or roughly 6% of the entire 
population of 72,000. I am unaware of any analysis that portends nearly this 
level of carnage from ANY other energy source.Not to defend coal, but just to 
observe the facts.

Conversion of more coal fired power plants to natural gas and modern, low 
waste, low temperature nuclear power plants are the only solution in the near 
to moderate term.
Bill Stephens  From: Terry Plemons via Texascavers 

 To: Cavers Texas 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines itshould be noted 
that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems forbirds by 
clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do notknow if a 
tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accuratelyassessed, if 
that is possible, but the comparison is relevant. T. Plemons

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers 
 wrote:

In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

You can call it whatever you want - 'detractors', 'perpetrators' - or you can 
learn from it. It's about leadership and vision.
Congrats on getting Powell's Cave gated, I'm glad a beautiful cave got gated, I 
hope more Texas cavers can enjoy it.

RK

To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:40:24 -0500
Subject: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update
From: texascavers@texascavers.com





Well said, Jerry!
Ignore the detractors and keep up the good work!
 
===Carl Kunath


 

From: Jerry via Texascavers 
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:52 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update 
:
 


Our 
"poorly organized" effort got the gate constructed in a period of less than a 
month from first finding the vandalism, has 
reached its financial goal (thanks to all that contributed !), did it 
without needing to make formal overtures to the 
"54 SP500 companies that are 
headquartered in Texas", did so without creating a massive headache by making 
sure that there was a 501(C)3 organization receiving the funds for shuttling to 
a third party, and did so by using a poor-boy version of crowd-sourcing from 
within the caving community. No excuses for dinner 
tonight.
 
Jerry.






Virus-free. www.avast.com




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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Leadership - It's about addressing the issues, not targeting the messengers,
Leadership - It's about getting things done even without global consensus, 
Leadership - It's about setting your organization to succeed - like setting up 
Ellenberger formation solid tax deductible donation options,
Leadership - It's about not insulting your potential donors or participants,

And I don't want to start my next email message with 'Excuses, it's what's for 
dinner tonight',

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:37:49 -0400 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
>  
> Rafal, 
>  
> If it was so easy, I challenge you to step up and make it so. From the  
> experience I have had dealing with both organizations, well-meaning but  
> time and energy constrained cavers, and the odd troll here and there,  
> it's anything but easy to get folks to agree on anything, even more so  
> when money is involved. 
>  
> Yes, Diana, I could have appealed to either the TCMA or TSS to be the  
> funds collector for the Powell's Cave Project so that a handful of  
> folks could get a minuscule tax deduction if they wanted one. But I  
> felt it was a conflict of interest to ask the TSS to do so as I'm an  
> officer on the Board. That won't matter to some folks but it does to  
> me. The TCMA is a fine organization doing excellent work for Texas  
> caves and cavers but they take awhile to make things happen and this  
> gate needed to be done quickly. 
>  
> So, there you go - the usual simple solutions to the worlds problems  
> aren't actually all that simple. Please keep that in mind as you  
> instruct the world as to how it should be done. In the mean time, I  
> haven't seen you two actually donating anything but grief. Make  
> something happen or get off the soap box. 
>  
> Jerry. 
>  
> -Original Message- 
> From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> To: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 5:09 pm 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
>  
> What did you assume that isn't true? 
>  
> Caves and karst in Texas are an incredible resource that should be  
> protected and set aside -  the case for which should be easily made  
> especially when one considers lack of green space as compared to  
> American East and West. If Texas cavers could reach around and outside  
> of its own community, get funding from private donors, one could not  
> only gate dozens of habitat sensitive caves but also set up a network  
> of karst preserves. For goodness sake, there are 54 SP500 companies  
> headquarters in Texas!  All that takes is ability to share your vision  
> with others, show them the resource you are trying to protect and  
> reasons why. And yes, sometimes take them above and below the ground,  
> get their hands dirty. 
>  
> And your concern is a nonexistent moral dilemma? 
>  
> RK 
>  
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:30 -0600 
> > To: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> > From: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> > 
> > Then why did you ask, for Pete's sake ? 
> > 
> > Jerry. 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone 
> > 
> > On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers  
> <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>  
> wrote: 
> > 
> >> No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to  
> gain access to the cave, that's a 
> >> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> >> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve 
> >> an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> >> the issue of the donor. 
> >> 
> >> RK 
> >> 
> >>  
> >>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600 
> >>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> >>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> >>> 
> >>> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request.  
> That becomes my problem. 
> >>> 
> >>> Jerry. 
> >>> 
> >>> Sent from my iPhone 
> >>>

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

To cut to the chase , the responses show a lack of vision and poor 
organization. If you need small business and public relations help, I'm sure 
it's available among the caving community on this email list. All you have to 
do is ask,

RK

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On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:52 PM -0500, "Diana Tomchick via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





The fact that Powell’s is private property is irrelevant. Money has been 
donated in the past to TCMA (and that money was tax deductible to the donor) to 
fund projects at Honey Creek, which is also private property.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Cave Tex  wrote:
>
> Because Powells is on private property?
>
>
> --Don
>
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Diana Tomchick via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Why do we have these organizations in Texas if they can’t be used to 
>> leverage donations to protect these important resources?
>>
>> Diana
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers




UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

What did you assume that isn't true? 

Caves and karst in Texas are an incredible resource that should be protected 
and set aside -  the case for which should be easily made especially when one 
considers lack of green space as compared to American East and West. If Texas 
cavers could reach around and outside of its own community, get funding from 
private donors, one could not only gate dozens of habitat sensitive caves but 
also set up a network of karst preserves. For goodness sake, there are 54 SP500 
companies headquarters in Texas!  All that takes is ability to share your 
vision with others, show them the resource you are trying to protect and 
reasons why. And yes, sometimes take them above and below the ground, get their 
hands dirty. 

And your concern is a nonexistent moral dilemma? 

RK

> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:30 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Then why did you ask, for Pete's sake ?
> 
> Jerry.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> > No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to gain 
> > access to the cave, that's a
> > wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> > someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve
> > an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> > the issue of the donor.
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > 
> >> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600
> >> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> >> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> 
> >> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request. That 
> >> becomes my problem.
> >> 
> >> Jerry.
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> >> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a 
> >>> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> >>> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve 
> >>> an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> >>> the issue of the donor.
> >>> 
> >>> RK
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
> >>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> >>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> Rafal,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming 
> >>>> entitlements for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that 
> >>>> becomes the principal reason for being philanthropic.
> >>>> 
> >>>> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of 
> >>>> the cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the 
> >>>> cave. Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as 
> >>>> survey teams, with little to no quality control of survey standards. The 
> >>>> result was a mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly 
> >>>> impossible to compile into a good map. Any future effort will require a 
> >>>> different strategy that may be too difficult to complete given the lack 
> >>>> of project leaders and cartographers we have today.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jerry.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> >>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect 
> >>>>> survey project and map?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> RK
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
> >>>

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access 
to the cave, that's a
 wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve
 an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
the issue of the donor.

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request. That becomes 
> my problem.
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
>> If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a 
>> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
>> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve an 
>> incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not the 
>> issue of the donor.
>>
>> RK
>>
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>
>>> Rafal,
>>>
>>> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming 
>>> entitlements for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that 
>>> becomes the principal reason for being philanthropic.
>>>
>>> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of 
>>> the cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the cave. 
>>> Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as survey 
>>> teams, with little to no quality control of survey standards. The result 
>>> was a mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly impossible to 
>>> compile into a good map. Any future effort will require a different 
>>> strategy that may be too difficult to complete given the lack of project 
>>> leaders and cartographers we have today.
>>>
>>> Jerry.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
>>>>
>>>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
>>>> project and map?
>>>>
>>>> RK
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
>>>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Dessie Pierce, MA
>>>>> Licensed Professional Counselor
>>>>> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor
>>>>> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional
>>>>> 11999 Katy Freeway
>>>>> Suite 509
>>>>> Houston, TX 77079
>>>>> phone: 832-735-0065
>>>>> cell: 832-341-8880
>>>>> des...@dessiep.com<mailto:des...@dessiep.com>
>>>>> dessiep.com
>>>>> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively
>>>>> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the
>>>>> privacy and confidentiality of such communication. Please notify me
>>>>> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of
>>>>> email. Please do not use email for emergencies. Any advice given
>>>>> without a contract for professional services does not constitute
>>>>> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon. Information
>>>>> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,
>>>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If
>>>>> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
>>>>> message is strict

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a wrong 
reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If someone is 
taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve an incredible 
resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not the issue of the 
donor. 

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> Rafal,
>
> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming entitlements 
> for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that becomes the principal 
> reason for being philanthropic.
>
> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of the 
> cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the cave. 
> Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as survey teams, 
> with little to no quality control of survey standards. The result was a 
> mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly impossible to compile 
> into a good map. Any future effort will require a different strategy that may 
> be too difficult to complete given the lack of project leaders and 
> cartographers we have today.
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
>>
>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
>> project and map?
>>
>> RK
>>
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>
>>>
>>> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Dessie Pierce, MA
>>> Licensed Professional Counselor
>>> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor
>>> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional
>>> 11999 Katy Freeway
>>> Suite 509
>>> Houston, TX 77079
>>> phone: 832-735-0065
>>> cell: 832-341-8880
>>> des...@dessiep.com<mailto:des...@dessiep.com>
>>> dessiep.com
>>> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively
>>> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the
>>> privacy and confidentiality of such communication. Please notify me
>>> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of
>>> email. Please do not use email for emergencies. Any advice given
>>> without a contract for professional services does not constitute
>>> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon. Information
>>> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,
>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If
>>> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
>>> message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
>>> error, please immediately notify me by telephone at 832-735-0065 or
>>> return the email and purge all copies of this message from your system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-06-22 20:32, Jerry via Texascavers wrote:
>>>
>>> Powell's Cave Gate Project update
>>>
>>> Jim Kennedy and company have finished the gate on Powell's Cave, and
>>> now it's time to pay for it. As you can see from the accompanying
>>> graph, we've received $1200 of the approximately $2500 that has been
>>> pledged thus far. Many thanks to all that have sent in their donations
>>> or pledged to help! - If you haven't sent in your pledged donation,
>>> please do so at your earliest convenience so we can pay the bills.
>>>
>>> The graph also shows that we are about $800 shy of our goal. If you are
>>> thinking of helping out on the gate project, please do so at this time.
>>> Help support our continuing efforts to protect both the cave and its
>>> bats, and to demonstrate our commitment to the landowner.
>>>
>>> Jerry Atkinson
>>> Powell's Cave Landowner Liaison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
&

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?

When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
project and map?

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 + 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
>  
>  
> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate? 
>  
> --- 
> Dessie Pierce, MA 
> Licensed Professional Counselor 
> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor 
> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional 
> 11999 Katy Freeway 
> Suite 509 
> Houston, TX 77079 
> phone: 832-735-0065 
> cell: 832-341-8880 
> des...@dessiep.com 
> dessiep.com 
> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively  
> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the  
> privacy and confidentiality of such communication.  Please notify me  
> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of  
> email.  Please do not use email for emergencies.  Any advice given  
> without a contract for professional services does not constitute  
> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon.  Information  
> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,  
> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If  
> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are  
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this  
> message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in  
> error, please immediately notify me by telephone at 832-735-0065 or  
> return the email and purge all copies of this message from your system. 
>  
>  
>  
> On 2016-06-22 20:32, Jerry via Texascavers wrote: 
>  
> Powell's Cave Gate Project update 
>  
> Jim Kennedy and company have finished the gate on Powell's Cave, and  
> now it's time to pay for it. As you can see from the accompanying  
> graph, we've received $1200 of the approximately $2500 that has been  
> pledged thus far. Many thanks to all that have sent in their donations  
> or pledged to help! - If you haven't sent in your pledged donation,  
> please do so at your earliest convenience so we can pay the bills. 
>  
> The graph also shows that we are about $800 shy of our goal. If you are  
> thinking of helping out on the gate project, please do so at this time.  
> Help support our continuing efforts to protect both the cave and its  
> bats, and to demonstrate our commitment to the landowner. 
>  
> Jerry Atkinson 
> Powell's Cave Landowner Liaison 
>  
>  
>  
> ___ 
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com |  
> Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>  
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
>  
> ___ Texascavers mailing  
> list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/  
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
  
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Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Malaria is a parasite not a virus, different bird.

We actually do pretty good job developing resistence to chickenpox, hence 
vaccination program wasn't deemed viable until 1990s. And vaccines aren't 
harmless - no autism significance as of now - but small but real possibility of 
demyelinating processes. Vaccine is completely effective in 40 percent of kids. 
Childhood varicella vaccinations are also likely responsible for adult shingles 
epidemic now - vaccine just isn't as good at long term protection. No need to 
worry - there are medication and vaccine for shingles now!! And more research 
is always needed;).

No such thing as no risk in investment - or medicine.

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 01:01:59 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Develop resistance in the same way that we’ve done with malaria and 
> chickenpox?
> 
> Thanks goodness for vaccines and anti-malarial drugs…which are still being 
> developed, due to problems with resistance.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 7:37 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > 
> > Your medical industrial complex is wanting you to write them a 1.9 billion 
> > dollar check for initial funding for Zika virus research and prevention. Or 
> > about 40 dollars for each of those households paying taxes. Few billion 
> > will follow every year from now on until story is forgotten by public 10 
> > years from now. What's a few billions among friends? 
> > 
> > But this will likely not change anything. Zika will spread across southern 
> > us until it becomes ubiquitous and is population will gain resistence. Then 
> > likely 95% of complications will disappear. This will become just like any 
> > of hundreds of minimally pathologic viruses, with more to follow. Next year 
> > look out for Kiki virus - one that elongates fetal noses and prompts 
> > another emergent spending bill;).
> > 
> > Cytomegalovirus and varicella invade brains of fetuses, Zika is nothing 
> > special. Dozens of other viruses grow in neuronal cultures - nothing 
> > special, except CV padding material.
> > 
> > Messenger doesn't change the message. And it was signed;).
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 22:27:10 +
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > 
> > > Just because you’ve already procreated doesn’t mean everyone else has, 
> > > Rafal Kedzierski.
> > > 
> > > It’s ironic that you should be against more research, given your 
> > > background.
> > > 
> > > Diana
> > > 
> > > **
> > > Diana R. Tomchick
> > > Professor
> > > Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> > > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> > > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> > > Rm. ND10.214A
> > > Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> > > diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> > > (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> > > (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> > > 
> > > > On May 24, 2016, at 5:22 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.
> > > > 
> > > > Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that 
> > > > we just need 'mo taxes'.
> > > > 
> > > > Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely 
> > > > maternal fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 
> > > > 'mo'. 
> > > > 
> > > > That's coming from a physician and a scientist.
> > > > 
> > > > RK
> > > > 
> > > > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry 
> > > > > > about and see how far that argument gets you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Perhaps we should tell people in Zika infected countries to not get 
> > > > > pregnant?
> > > > > 
> > > > > (Dons fireproof suit) ;-)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Stefan Creaser
> > > > > Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> > > > > 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> > > > > Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> > > > > Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On 
> > > > > Behalf Of Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:39 PM
> > > > > To: Cave Tex
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Microcephaly is seen in population in 

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Your medical industrial complex is wanting you to write them a 1.9 billion 
dollar check for initial funding for Zika virus research and prevention. Or 
about 40 dollars for each of those households paying taxes. Few billion will 
follow every year from now on until story is forgotten by public 10 years from 
now. What's a few billions among friends? 

But this will likely not change anything. Zika will spread across southern us 
until it becomes ubiquitous and is population will gain resistence. Then likely 
95% of complications will disappear. This will become just like any of hundreds 
of minimally pathologic viruses, with more to follow. Next year look out for 
Kiki virus - one that elongates fetal noses and prompts another emergent 
spending bill;).

Cytomegalovirus and varicella invade brains of fetuses, Zika is nothing 
special. Dozens of other viruses grow in neuronal cultures - nothing special, 
except CV padding material.

Messenger doesn't change the message. And it was signed;).

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 22:27:10 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Just because you’ve already procreated doesn’t mean everyone else has, Rafal 
> Kedzierski.
> 
> It’s ironic that you should be against more research, given your background.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 5:22 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.
> > 
> > Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that we 
> > just need 'mo taxes'.
> > 
> > Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely 
> > maternal fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 
> > 'mo'. 
> > 
> > That's coming from a physician and a scientist.
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > 
> > > > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry 
> > > > about and see how far that argument gets you.
> > > 
> > > Perhaps we should tell people in Zika infected countries to not get 
> > > pregnant?
> > > 
> > > (Dons fireproof suit) ;-)
> > > 
> > > Stefan Creaser
> > > Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> > > 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> > > Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> > > Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf 
> > > Of Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:39 PM
> > > To: Cave Tex
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > 
> > > > Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 
> > > > mothers infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k 
> > > > people die in traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in 
> > > > India. Malaria kills 1 million people a year.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, but not every virus causes problems with neural development in 
> > > embryonic cell cultures.
> > > 
> > > "Zika Virus Infects Human Cortical Neural Progenitors and Attenuates 
> > > Their Growth”
> > > Tang, Hengli et al.
> > > Cell Stem Cell , Volume 18 , Issue 5 , 587 - 590
> > > 
> > > For a freely available description of this research,
> > > 
> > > http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/zika-virus-kills-developing-brain-cells
> > > 
> > > The very last sentence of this description sums up the problem rather 
> > > well:
> > > 
> > > "Researchers also still need to figure out how the virus crosses the 
> > > placenta and infects the fetus directly, something most viruses can’t do.”
> > > 
> > > If the population of Brazil is 205 million, and roughly half the 
> > > population is female (~100 million), and of that only 50% is of 
> > > childbearing age (50 million) and only 5% of that number plans to have a 
> > > child this year (2.5 million), and 1% of that number has children born 
> > > with microcephaly, that would be 25,000 children, if all the mothers were 
> > > infected with Zika virus.
> > > 
> > > Let that sink in: 25,000 children born with microcephaly.
> > > 
> > > So let’s assume instead that only 25% of the potential mothers are 
> > > infected with Zika virus and their babies have microcephaly. That would 
> > > still mean 6,250 children born with microcephaly.
> > > 
> > > 6,250 children born with so little neural tissue that they will never 
> > > live independently, and probably will not live very long 

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.

Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that we just 
need 'mo taxes'.

Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely maternal 
fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 'mo'. 

That's coming from a physician and a scientist.

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry about 
> > and see how far that argument gets you.
> 
> Perhaps we should tell people in Zika infected countries to not get pregnant?
> 
> (Dons fireproof suit) ;-)
> 
> Stefan Creaser
> Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:39 PM
> To: Cave Tex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> 
> > Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 mothers 
> > infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k people die in 
> > traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in India. Malaria kills 
> > 1 million people a year.
> 
> 
> Yes, but not every virus causes problems with neural development in embryonic 
> cell cultures.
> 
> "Zika Virus Infects Human Cortical Neural Progenitors and Attenuates Their 
> Growth”
> Tang, Hengli et al.
> Cell Stem Cell , Volume 18 , Issue 5 , 587 - 590
> 
> For a freely available description of this research,
> 
> http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/zika-virus-kills-developing-brain-cells
> 
> The very last sentence of this description sums up the problem rather well:
> 
> "Researchers also still need to figure out how the virus crosses the placenta 
> and infects the fetus directly, something most viruses can’t do.”
> 
> If the population of Brazil is 205 million, and roughly half the population 
> is female (~100 million), and of that only 50% is of childbearing age (50 
> million) and only 5% of that number plans to have a child this year (2.5 
> million), and 1% of that number has children born with microcephaly, that 
> would be 25,000 children, if all the mothers were infected with Zika virus.
> 
> Let that sink in: 25,000 children born with microcephaly.
> 
> So let’s assume instead that only 25% of the potential mothers are infected 
> with Zika virus and their babies have microcephaly. That would still mean 
> 6,250 children born with microcephaly.
> 
> 6,250 children born with so little neural tissue that they will never live 
> independently, and probably will not live very long lives.
> 
> According to the CDC 
> (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/microcephaly.html),
> 
> "Microcephaly is not a common condition. State birth defects tracking systems 
> have estimated that microcephaly ranges from 2 babies per 10,000 live births 
> to about 12 babies per 10,000 live births in the Unites States.”
> 
> That would be 0.02 - 0.12 % of live births in the U.S., a far smaller number 
> than 1%.
> 
> "Zika virus, named after a forest in Uganda where it was first isolated 
> decades ago, usually causes only mild symptoms in people, including fever and 
> rash. But after the virus started spreading across northeastern Brazil last 
> year, doctors there noticed a striking increase in the number of babies born 
> with microcephaly.”
> 
> This is exactly what epidemiologists are supposed to do, alert the medical 
> community to potential new health risks. Not all new viruses and pathogens 
> are as terrifyingly dangerous as Ebola, nor as relatively ho-hum as Lone Star 
> fever. One has a high risk of death and the other can be easily treated with 
> antibiotics.
> 
> Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry about and 
> see how far that argument gets you.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 3:45 PM, texas cavers tc  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Just to provide a different perspective, only 1 in 5 even know have Zika 
> > related illness when they are exposed.  It's not 'spiraling out of control' 
> > - it's new to North America, yes. It's likely one of many illnesses that go 
> > through populations and become part of the infectious tapestry that we all 
> > live in. Is anyone reading alarmist articles about Heartland virus or Lone 
> > Star fever?
> >

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Just to provide a different perspective, only 1 in 5 even know have Zika 
related illness when they are exposed.  It's not 'spiraling out of control' - 
it's new to North America, yes. It's likely one of many illnesses that go 
through populations and become part of the infectious tapestry that we all live 
in. Is anyone reading alarmist articles about Heartland virus or Lone Star 
fever?

Guillan-Barre syndrome is secondary to number of viruses, it's nothing specific 
to Zika. 

Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 mothers 
infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k people die in 
traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in India. Malaria kills 1 
million people a year. 

RK

See http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/305163.php
Symptoms of Zika virus


Signs and symptoms of Zika virus are vague and can last for up to a 
week. Diagnosis of the virus is typically confirmed with a blood test.1



Symptoms of Zika virus include:1,2


FeverRashJoint painConjunctivitis (red eyes)Muscle painHeadachePain behind the 
eyesVomiting.


According to the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), only 1 in 4 people 
infected with Zika virus develop symptoms.5 In contrast, the CDC state the 
figure is 1 in 5.




In the past, there have also been reports of patients developing Guillain-Barré 
syndrome following a Zika virus infection. Guillain-Barré syndrome is a rare 
but serious autoimmune disorder that affects the central nervous system.6




Infection with the Zika virus is rarely severe enough to warrant 
hospitalization, and it is rarer still for an individual to die as a 
result.6


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Re: [Texascavers] Angel Graña Gonzalez

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

And hopefully he is a better man than Che Guevera or Fidel Castro - I wouldn't 
call either examplary human beings - rather interesting curiosities on the 
level of Augusto Pinochet.

Rafal Kedzierski


 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 02:36:12 + 
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
 CC: s...@caver.net; tag-...@hiddenworld.net 
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Angel Graña Gonzalez 
 From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
  
  
 Thanks, John. 
  
  
  
 You are correct. Angel has MANY stories!  I did not want to spoil the  
 surprise --- 
  
  
  
 The society (NSS) awarded Antonio Núñez Jiménez an Honorary Membership  
 in the NSS in August 1993. Not only was he the founder of the Sociedad  
 Espeleológica de Cuba (SEC) (in 1940, two years before the NSS was  
 founded), Antonio Núñez did indeed play a very significant role in the  
 Revolution and was repeatedly honored by Fidel. Antonio Núñez raised  
 the first peasant militia and used the caves in the Viñales Valley to  
 defeat Batista's forces. Antonio Núñez was also Che Guevera's  
 right-hand-man. For that and other reasons the US refused to grant  
 Antonio Núñez a visa to travel to the USA to receive his award from the  
 NSS. 
  
  
  
 Antonio Núñez Jiménez was an academic and accomplished,internationally  
 recognized scientist for all seasons: a Geographer, Geologist,  
 Anthropologist, Botanist, Paleontologist, and president of the Cuban  
 Academy of Sciences. 
  
  
  
 It was reported that Fidel cried like a baby at his funeral. 
  
  
  
 Angel Graña Gonzalez was a friend, caving companion, and secretary to  
 Antonio Núñez Jiménez until he died in September 13, 1998 
  
  
  
 Angel has, indeed, many stories. 
  
  
  
 DirtDoc 
  
  
  
 From: John Greer via Texascavers 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 6:09:54 PM 
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Attention: Spanish Speakers attending the  
 NSS Convention in Missouri next week 
  
 I believe Angel was with Fidel Castro and his brother-in-law the famous  
 geographer (and really great guy) Antonio Núñez during the revolution  
 and was mostly in charge (with Antonio) of cave exploration and  
 mapping. He is full of more stories than you will have time to listen  
 to. Get him to talk! 
  
 For those of you who have been to the cave house in La Havana, there is  
 a big photo on the wall of the whole group in a cave, with Castro  
 (especially) all decked out in his normal army field gear, and all  
 slopping through the mud. I believe Antonio published this photo in  
 some of his books, so it’s available. 
  
 John Greer 
 Casper 
  
  
 On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:43 PM, via Texascavers  
 texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com  
 wrote: 
  
 Attention: Spanish Speakers attending the NSS Convention in Missouri  
 next week 
  
 ___ Texascavers mailing  
 list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:  
 http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/  
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Re: [Texascavers] Frank Nicholson

[rafal kedzierski via Texascavers]

I would venture that he was likely a Ph.D., they have greater ability to 
exaggerate:) than overworked MDs...
Rafal Kedzierski

 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:14:43 +
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Frank Nicholson
 From: texascavers@texascavers.com
 
 Dr. Frank E. Nicholson? An M.D., perhaps?
 
 Might explain the tendency to exaggerate.
 
 Diana
 
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 Diana R. Tomchick
 Professor
 University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
 Department of Biophysics
 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
 Rm. ND10.214A
 Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
 Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
 214-645-6383 (phone)
 214-645-6353 (fax)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Feb 20, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers wrote:
 
  Nicholson was quite an interesting fellow but he did his best speleology 
  with a typewriter.
 
  He is cited a number of times in 50 Years of Texas Caving ( AKA: The 
  Encyclopedia of Texas Caving):
 
  Pg 21, 294:  Cascade Caverns and Longhorn Cave
  Pg 35, 308:  There is a brief mention of a grandiose expedition to Cueva de 
  El Abra with Bob Hudson and Jimmy Walker
  Pg 424:  A note of Nicholson visiting Devil’s Sinkhole
 
  I could have included quite a lot more about Nicholson but the space was 
  better reserved for more factual, perhaps more entertaining, accounts.  One 
  of the best stories involves his plan to explore a lofty dome in Carlsbad 
  Cavern with the use of a balloon.  Explorers would rise to the desired 
  level in a basket and step out into unknown passages.  This didn’t happen 
  although it’s a pity as we might have learned how he planned to create the 
  necessary clearance above the top of the balloon in order to reach the 
  upper area of the dome and also how he planned to deal with those sharp, 
  pointy stalactites.
 
  Nicholson was nothing if not consistent.  Every account of his exploits 
  that he authored is wildly exaggerated.  In addition to the Cascade Caverns 
  story related below, check out this account of the Devil’s Sinkhole:
 
  SEPT. 2, 1934
  Kerrville – Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, explorer of Carlsbad Cavern in New 
  Mexico, has announced that the Devil’s Sinkhole, 65 miles from here, is 
  larger than the famous New Mexico cave. Dr. Nicholson recently visited the 
  Clarence Whitworth ranch, site of the sinkhole, and conducted a series of 
  explorations. He found that the cave’s mouth is about 90 feet in diameter 
  and looks down upon a 600-foot “mountain peak” which rises to within 271 
  feet of the surface of the ground. The subterranean mountain is a mile in 
  circumference at the base. Dr. Nicholson explored several miles of passages 
  with striking and colorful formations and saw many other corridors leading 
  away for unknown distances. The cave is one of the country’s greatest 
  natural wonders, Dr. Nicholson said.
 
  ===Carl Kunath
  carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers
  Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 3:31 PM
  To: Cavers Texas
  Subject: [Texascavers] unique Texas cave
 
  Published, apparently seriously, in the News-Letter of the Exploration  
  Location Committee of the NSS, #1, Jan. 1943:
 
  A condensation of information on the exploration of a limestone cave near 
  Boerne, Texas, about 1932 by a party headed by Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, 
  indicates that it is perhaps the most unusual phenomenon in our science. 
  The information is from an old reference, and anyone having further 
  information on this cave please contact this committee. 500 feet within the 
  cave is a subterranean lake overhung by stalactites which reach to the 
  surface of the water, requiring swimming under water for 200 feet. 
  Occasional pockets permit breathing. This expedition penetrated beyond 
  the lake to a great vaulted tunnel, which contained a bottomless pit, 
  subterranean spring, and stream. Progress was possible to a point one mile 
  from the entrance and 600 feet below the surface. The most unusual feature 
  of the cave is that in it were found white colored blind crayfish, 
  pheletrodroid salamanders, and blind, white translucent frogs. Most 
  unbelievable is the report that at the cave's lowest level (one mile from 
  entrance and 600 feet underground) 50 Spanish oak and Hackberry trees were 
  found growing. That trees can grow in complete darkness with the complete 
  absence of light and sunshine is a phenomenon that demands further 
  investigation by speleologists.
 
  The chairman of the committee and presumably author of the piece was Erwin 
  Bischoff. Scan of original can be found at
  http://www.karstportal.org/FileStorage/NSS_news/1941-v001-001.pdf
  --Mixon
 
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Re: [Texascavers] accident report needs translator

[rafal kedzierski via Texascavers]

I could do the translation if you had the original documents in Polish:). 
French, not so much.

Rafal Kedzierski 
Polish ex-Texas caver now in TN

 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 19:31:36 -0500
 Subject: [Texascavers] accident report needs translator
 From: texascavers@texascavers.com
 
 I have a report on the accident to two Polish cavers in Sótano de San  
 Agustín in 1980 (see also Mike Boon's report in latest AMCS Activities  
 Newsletter) by Etienne Degrave, the Belgian doctor who attended the  
 patients and is probably responsible for the survival of the most  
 seriously injured one. This is obviously a historically important  
 document, but it is in French. Anybody interested in translating it  
 into English with the goal of publishing it in an Association for  
 Mexican Cave Studies magazine?
 
 It looks like it's roughly six thousand words, so not a task for a  
 student who needs frequent recourse to a French/English dictionary.  
 The original was printed with a cheap dot-matrix printer, and the copy  
 I have is not wonderful, but I think everything would be legible to  
 someone knowledgeable enough in French to fill in an occasional  
 missing letter. I can scan it for you. No great rush, of course.
 
 I'd like to cast a wide net, so feel free to forward this to other  
 relevant lists.
 
 --Bill Mixon, AMCS editor
 
 I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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