Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Lyndon Tiu]

I look forward to the day when someone bumps you on the street with a pin
prick for a tiny drop of your blood, takes your DNA and clones a new you
without your permission.


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM, David Ochel  wrote:

> Heya,
>
> Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)
>
> On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:
>
> > The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> > All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> > That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> > no personal information.
>
> I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
> present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
> has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
> use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
> than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
> etc.
>
> And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
> proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
> easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.
>
> > Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> > significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> > algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> > way ciphers".
>
> I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
> encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
> encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
> be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
> times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
> for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
> different, certainly not employed in this context...
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> --
> David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Lyndon Tiu]

I look forward to the day when someone bumps you on the street with a pin
prick for a tiny drop of your blood, takes your DNA and clones a new you
without your permission.


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM, David Ochel  wrote:

> Heya,
>
> Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)
>
> On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:
>
> > The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> > All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> > That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> > no personal information.
>
> I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
> present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
> has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
> use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
> than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
> etc.
>
> And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
> proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
> easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.
>
> > Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> > significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> > algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> > way ciphers".
>
> I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
> encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
> encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
> be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
> times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
> for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
> different, certainly not employed in this context...
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> --
> David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Lyndon Tiu]

I look forward to the day when someone bumps you on the street with a pin
prick for a tiny drop of your blood, takes your DNA and clones a new you
without your permission.


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM, David Ochel  wrote:

> Heya,
>
> Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)
>
> On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:
>
> > The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> > All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> > That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> > no personal information.
>
> I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
> present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
> has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
> use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
> than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
> etc.
>
> And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
> proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
> easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.
>
> > Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> > significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> > algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> > way ciphers".
>
> I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
> encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
> encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
> be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
> times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
> for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
> different, certainly not employed in this context...
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> --
> David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[David Ochel]

Heya,

Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)

On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:

> The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> no personal information.

I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
etc.

And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.

> Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> way ciphers".

I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
different, certainly not employed in this context...

Cheers,
David

-- 
David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[David Ochel]

Heya,

Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)

On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:

> The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> no personal information.

I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
etc.

And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.

> Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> way ciphers".

I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
different, certainly not employed in this context...

Cheers,
David

-- 
David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[David Ochel]

Heya,

Gosh, are we off-topic or what? Anyway, I can't resist... ;-)

On 2/17/13 1:09 PM, Don Cooper wrote:

> The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
> All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
> That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
> no personal information.

I consider my credit card number (actually, the whole information that's
present on the magnetic stripe as well as via the RFID chip if a card
has it) personally identifiable information. Especially if somebody can
use it to clone my card and buy stuff with my card. It can also be more
than "a" number, as in a bunch of numbers that encode my passport photo,
etc.

And I certainly don't want to put my RFID-enabled PII into the close
proximity of readers that aren't authorized to read that information,
easy to hide, and fitting into everyone's pockets.

> Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
> significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
> algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
> way ciphers".

I'm not sure what the definition a one way cipher or deeply embedded
encryption algorithm would be? A hash? Passport information on RFID is
encrypted with some sort of key, afaik, but obviously those keys need to
be shared with those who are supposed to read the information (multiple
times, and for more than one passport holder without having a unique key
for each of them, presumably). One time passwords are something
different, certainly not employed in this context...

Cheers,
David

-- 
David Ochel -=> http://blog.ochel.net <=-

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Don Cooper]

The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
no personal information.
Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
way ciphers".
Credit cards can store other information on the magnetic strip -
including your name but never a PIN - some contain only a number.

Don't Panic.

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Justin Haynes  wrote:
> If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
> information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
> help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
> is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:
>
> http://www.stewartstand.com/
>
> On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:
>>
>> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
>> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
>> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how the
>> card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the valid
>> PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been in use
>> since the late 80's.
>>
>> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
>> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
>> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
>> since your last card renewal.
>>
>> Terry H.
>>
>> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who
>>> pursue
>>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>>
>>>> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>>> --Ediger
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>>
>>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>>> cards
>>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>>> jtml
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>>   This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>

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Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Don Cooper]

The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
no personal information.
Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
way ciphers".
Credit cards can store other information on the magnetic strip -
including your name but never a PIN - some contain only a number.

Don't Panic.

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Justin Haynes  wrote:
> If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
> information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
> help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
> is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:
>
> http://www.stewartstand.com/
>
> On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:
>>
>> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
>> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
>> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how the
>> card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the valid
>> PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been in use
>> since the late 80's.
>>
>> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
>> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
>> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
>> since your last card renewal.
>>
>> Terry H.
>>
>> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who
>>> pursue
>>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>>
>>>> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>>> --Ediger
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>>
>>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>>> cards
>>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>>> jtml
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>>   This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>

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Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Don Cooper]

The basic RFID system is a simple transponder.
All it does is enables the chip to transmit a number when scanned.
That number is essentially an indexing string of data which contains
no personal information.
Out of the context of the process of the read - the number has no
significance.  Plus - that context has deeply embedded encryption
algorithms based on time, location and date - which are called "one
way ciphers".
Credit cards can store other information on the magnetic strip -
including your name but never a PIN - some contain only a number.

Don't Panic.

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Justin Haynes  wrote:
> If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
> information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
> help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
> is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:
>
> http://www.stewartstand.com/
>
> On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:
>>
>> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
>> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
>> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how the
>> card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the valid
>> PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been in use
>> since the late 80's.
>>
>> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
>> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
>> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
>> since your last card renewal.
>>
>> Terry H.
>>
>> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who
>>> pursue
>>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>>
>>>> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>>> --Ediger
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>>
>>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>>> cards
>>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>>> jtml
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> SWR mailing list
>>>> s...@caver.net
>>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>>>> ___
>>>>   This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>

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Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Justin Haynes]

If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:

http://www.stewartstand.com/
On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:

> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how
> the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the
> valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been
> in use since the late 80's.
>
> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
> since your last card renewal.
>
> Terry H.
>
> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>
>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>
>>  My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>> --Ediger
>>>
>>> --------------
>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>
>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>> cards
>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>> jtml
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.**com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __**_
>>> SWR mailing list
>>> s...@caver.net
>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/swr<http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr>
>>> __**_
>>> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> SWR mailing list
>>> s...@caver.net
>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/swr<http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr>
>>> __**_
>>>   This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>
>>>
>>
> --**--**-
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-help@texascavers.**com
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Justin Haynes]

If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:

http://www.stewartstand.com/
On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:

> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how
> the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the
> valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been
> in use since the late 80's.
>
> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
> since your last card renewal.
>
> Terry H.
>
> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>
>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>
>>  My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>> --Ediger
>>>
>>> --------------
>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>
>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>> cards
>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>> jtml
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.**com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __**_
>>> SWR mailing list
>>> s...@caver.net
>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/swr<http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr>
>>> __**_
>>> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>
>>> __**_
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>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/swr<http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr>
>>> __**_
>>>   This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>>>
>>>
>>
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>

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Justin Haynes]

If you are concerned about malicious attackers harvesting personal
information from your rfid enabled cards, these stainless steel wallets
help.  I have one and i like it.  It is made out of a stainless steel mesh
is flexibke and feels sort of silky because it is a very fine weave:

http://www.stewartstand.com/
On Feb 10, 2013 4:28 PM, "Terry Holsinger"  wrote:

> Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card,
> chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of as
> a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is how
> the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and the
> valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN PERSON. Been
> in use since the late 80's.
>
> FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay,
> similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless payment
> system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in them already
> since your last card renewal.
>
> Terry H.
>
> On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:
>
>> Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
>> academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
>>
>>  My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
>>> --Ediger
>>>
>>> --------------
>>> *From:* John Lyles
>>> *To:* s...@caver.net
>>> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>>>
>>> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
>>> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
>>> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
>>> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My
>>> cards
>>> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
>>> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
>>> jtml
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
>>>> <http://youtube.googleapis.**com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> s...@caver.net
>>> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/swr<http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr>
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>>>
>>> __**_
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>>>
>>>
>>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-help@texascavers.**com
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Terry Holsinger]

Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card, 
chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of 
as a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is 
how the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and 
the valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN 
PERSON. Been in use since the late 80's.


FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay, 
similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless 
payment system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in 
them already since your last card renewal.


Terry H.

On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:


My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger

--
*From:* John Lyles
*To:* s...@caver.net
*Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>



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Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Terry Holsinger]

Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card, 
chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of 
as a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is 
how the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and 
the valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN 
PERSON. Been in use since the late 80's.


FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay, 
similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless 
payment system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in 
them already since your last card renewal.


Terry H.

On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:


My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger

--
*From:* John Lyles
*To:* s...@caver.net
*Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>



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Re: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Terry Holsinger]

Ted, you are referring to the "Chip and Pin" cards aka EMV smart card, 
chip card, or integrated circuit card (ICC). The chip is best thought of 
as a small USB drive and the visible surface of the chip on the card is 
how the card reader physically accesses the data (you account number and 
the valid PIN) stored there to verify as valid use of the card IN 
PERSON. Been in use since the late 80's.


FYI here in the USA in 2005, American Express introduced ExpressPay, 
similar to MasterCard PayPass and Visa payWave. All are contactless 
payment system based on wireless RFID. So your CC might have a RFID in 
them already since your last card renewal.


Terry H.

On 2/10/2013 5:59 AM, Ted Samsel wrote:

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:


My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger

--
*From:* John Lyles
*To:* s...@caver.net
*Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
<http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>



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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Kenneth Ingham]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224


On 02/09/2013 08:19 PM, Gill Ediger wrote:
> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that? 
> --Ediger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

The claim is it's the same data on the data page.  It also has a
digitized photo (your passport photo) and "descriptive data".

Kenneth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iFYEARELAAYFAlEX5vEACgkQqjXvNhJWXxhZxQDcClHMxWmiu0hgJolvD78vQc5v
IvsEk8karw/3EgDeKVLsB87zwfaR75XZn9WUrtV1XLUXalrh2vrZmA==
=og7j
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Kenneth Ingham]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224


On 02/09/2013 08:19 PM, Gill Ediger wrote:
> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that? 
> --Ediger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

The claim is it's the same data on the data page.  It also has a
digitized photo (your passport photo) and "descriptive data".

Kenneth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iFYEARELAAYFAlEX5vEACgkQqjXvNhJWXxhZxQDcClHMxWmiu0hgJolvD78vQc5v
IvsEk8karw/3EgDeKVLsB87zwfaR75XZn9WUrtV1XLUXalrh2vrZmA==
=og7j
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Kenneth Ingham]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224


On 02/09/2013 08:19 PM, Gill Ediger wrote:
> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that? 
> --Ediger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

The claim is it's the same data on the data page.  It also has a
digitized photo (your passport photo) and "descriptive data".

Kenneth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iFYEARELAAYFAlEX5vEACgkQqjXvNhJWXxhZxQDcClHMxWmiu0hgJolvD78vQc5v
IvsEk8karw/3EgDeKVLsB87zwfaR75XZn9WUrtV1XLUXalrh2vrZmA==
=og7j
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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[Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Ted Samsel]

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:

> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
> --Ediger
>
> --
> *From:* John Lyles 
> *To:* s...@caver.net
> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>
> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
> jtml
>
>
> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
> >  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> > <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> >
>
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[Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Ted Samsel]

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:

> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
> --Ediger
>
> --
> *From:* John Lyles 
> *To:* s...@caver.net
> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>
> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
> jtml
>
>
> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
> >  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> > <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> >
>
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[Texascavers] Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Ted Samsel]

Don't most credit cards used in the EU have them? My colleagues who pursue
academic careers over there say their cards have a special chip in them.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:

> My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
> --Ediger
>
> --
> *From:* John Lyles 
> *To:* s...@caver.net
> *Sent:* Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards
>
> There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a
> briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF
> chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought
> foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards
> don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to
> smithereens at work anyhow.(!)
> jtml
>
>
> On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
> >  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> > <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> >
>
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>

Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Gill Ediger]

My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger




From: John Lyles 
To: s...@caver.net
Sent: Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF chip, 
and download their information. I know some people who have bought foil sleeves 
that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards don't have the 
RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to smithereens at work 
anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> 

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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Gill Ediger]

My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger




From: John Lyles 
To: s...@caver.net
Sent: Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF chip, 
and download their information. I know some people who have bought foil sleeves 
that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards don't have the 
RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to smithereens at work 
anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> 

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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Gill Ediger]

My passport does. Who knows what kind of information is on that?
--Ediger




From: John Lyles 
To: s...@caver.net
Sent: Sat, February 9, 2013 3:52:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF chip, 
and download their information. I know some people who have bought foil sleeves 
that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My cards don't have the 
RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them to smithereens at work 
anyhow.(!)
jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>  Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.
> <http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/lLAFhTjsQHw>
> 

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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[John Lyles]

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF 
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought 
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My 
cards don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them 
to smithereens at work anyhow.(!)

jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

 Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.




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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[John Lyles]

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF 
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought 
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My 
cards don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them 
to smithereens at work anyhow.(!)

jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

 Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.




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Re: [SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[John Lyles]

There has been some local chatter about someone in Albuqueque who has a 
briefcase who can walk among (close) to people with cards having that RF 
chip, and download their information. I know some people who have bought 
foil sleeves that cover the card and block RF access to the chip. My 
cards don't have the RFID in them, thank goodness, as I would zap them 
to smithereens at work anyhow.(!)

jtml


On 2/8/13 10:39 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

 Not caving related, but could affect everyone.  Scary.




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[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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[SWR] RFID Credit Cards

[Mark Minton]

Not caving related, but could affect 
everyone.  Scary.  


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


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