[Texascavers] Fwd: [SWR] WNS issues and the NSS 75th Anniversary Convention
Howdy Texas Cavers! Please read the email below regarding caving and WNS while you are in Nevada for the 75th NSS Convention. Please forward the message below to other Texas grottos, off-list cavers, as well as the various FB accounts that exist for Texas and other cavers. And, don't forget to register for the NSS Convention: http://nss2016.caves.org/registration/index.php Julia G Germany germa...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Matt Bowers <mat...@thirdmedia.com> To: NSSwest <nssw...@yahoogroups.com>; ncacavers <ncacav...@yahoogroups.com>; swr <s...@caver.net>; azregion <azreg...@yahoogroups.com>; colorado_grotto <colorado_gro...@yahoogroups.com>; TIMPANOGOSgrotto <timpanogosgro...@yahoogroups.com> Cc: Southern_Nevada_Grotto <southern_nevada_gro...@yahoogroups.com>; NNVGrotto <nnvgro...@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2016 5:45 pm Subject: [SWR] WNS issues and the NSS 75th Anniversary Convention Caver family - Sadly, we learned today of the presence of White Nose Syndrome in Washington State. WNS has devastated millions of bats across the eastern USA. While many western cavers thought it was just a matter of time, we'd hoped we had more time than this... Please know - this changes nothing for the cave trips being offered at the NSS 75th Anniversary Convention this summer in Ely, Nevada. >From the beginning, we have always planned for WNS decontamination to be >mandatory before anyone will be allowed on trips. The convention team is >working with the Bureau of Land Management to have a mobile decon station on >site at the convention this summer. It will follow USFWS protocols. Additionally, it's important to know that most bats in Nevada prefer to roost in mines rather than caves. Our state has thousands of abandoned mines that are used by bats throughout the year. The convention is not planning any underground mine trips. Finally, we ask that you not bring cave gear into the state from infected areas. Most of the caves on our trip schedule are warm enough that you won't need coveralls anyway. Please leave them at home and plan to decon everything else before you sign up for cave trips during the convention. We will have the decon station operable on the weekends around our convention for those of you arriving early or staying late. The NSS 2016 Convention firmly believes that cavers have never been a transmission vector for this syndrome. Let's keep it that way! We will post additional information as it becomes available. NSS 75th Anniversary Convention July 16-23, 2016 ~ Ely, Nevada http://nss2016.caves.org #nss75th Please share this with your grottos. ___SWR mailing listSWR@caver.nethttp://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr___ This list has been provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET.This List will terminate on September 1, 2016!Thanks for your understanding.Bill bentleyca...@caver.net ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[SWR] WNS Fungus Persists in Caves Even Without Bats
Bad news for bats: the fungus that causes white-nose syndrome persists in caves even in the absence of bats as hosts: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-bat-fungus-20131101,0,4407067.story#axzz2jVrXaAFH. Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
What I am saying is that if you know of a hibernating colony at CAVE (the acronym for Carlsbad Caverns National Park, not CaCa) in the tourist cavern, I would like to know about it as would others. I know of no hibernating colonies; though, I believe, about 6 hibernating species are known to use the cave, the most significant of which is the Fringed (thysanodes) and some velifer that I mentioned. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:09 PM To: William Tucker ; s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
There may be no hibernating bats now in CaCa, but it absolutely does not rule out the use of the cave by other species who do hibernate. There are a number of caves in the Guads where bats will do a stopover for one or a few nights, despite their roosting in another cave. And in at least one instance, a nursery colony exists in one Guad cave while the same bats hibernate in another one. Jim -Original Message- From: William Tucker Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:33 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media There is a colony of Fringed Myotis of approximately that size that hang around near Lake of the Clouds at the back of Left Hand Tunnel - the deepest known part of the cave. Though a hibernating species, they are there in the summer months and are not hibernating. Cave Myotis can also be found there though I know of no significant colonies beyond these and the Freetails in Bat Cave. Other species are known to use the cave but I know of no other significant groups. William -Original Message- From: Jim Evatt Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:34 PM To: wnsliai...@caves.org ; Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s
[SWR] WNS meeting in the media
KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. -- Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. -- Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Stephen, Yes, it was apparent that the selected information in the article was very narrow. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:31 AM To: jen . Cc: s...@caver.net; skin...@thuntek.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. - Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. - Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. _ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Thanks Kenneth, I wonder if this is just stock filler for the article? Regards, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ingham Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:13 AM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS meeting in the media
KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. -- Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. -- Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Stephen, Yes, it was apparent that the selected information in the article was very narrow. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:31 AM To: jen . Cc: s...@caver.net; skin...@thuntek.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. - Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. - Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. _ List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Thanks Kenneth, I wonder if this is just stock filler for the article? Regards, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ingham Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:13 AM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS meeting in the media
KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. -- Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. -- Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Stephen, Yes, it was apparent that the selected information in the article was very narrow. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:31 AM To: jen . Cc: s...@caver.net; skin...@thuntek.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media In more ways than one in the WNS debacle, take your pick of these quotes: The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant. - Unknown The fewer the facts, the stranger the opinion. - Arnold H. Glascow On 02/06/2013 9:59, jen . wrote: ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. _ List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
Thanks Kenneth, I wonder if this is just stock filler for the article? Regards, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ingham Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:13 AM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlESjykACgkQqjXvNhJWXxg+yADfd2f8uycPwrrvVNODC1ESiPpE b4sWWp9mYY0PCgDghdYOfAF5Jz3lTiJVoh549EItR3yD0HxeUR4jBw== =5I2p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS Story Map
Interesting web site showing the spread of WNS and which species are affected and where: http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2012/whitenose/ Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS Story Map
Interesting web site showing the spread of WNS and which species are affected and where: http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2012/whitenose/ Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS Story Map
Interesting web site showing the spread of WNS and which species are affected and where: http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2012/whitenose/ Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] WNS now reported in Hamilton County, TN (Chattanooga Area)
[From Peter Youngbaer, WNS Liaison] Hamilton County, TN Press release: http://caves.org/WNS/Lookout%20Mountain%20Cave%20May%201,%202012.pdf Note that for the first time in a USFWS-partnered press release we have some contextual information (2 bats = 18% of colony; no mortality). We can thank Ron Miller for this - he was on the survey and mentioned the lack of this sort of information in previous press releases to the National Park biologist. Pays to speak up. Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS now reported in Hamilton County, TN (Chattanooga Area)
[From Peter Youngbaer, WNS Liaison] Hamilton County, TN Press release: http://caves.org/WNS/Lookout%20Mountain%20Cave%20May%201,%202012.pdf Note that for the first time in a USFWS-partnered press release we have some contextual information (2 bats = 18% of colony; no mortality). We can thank Ron Miller for this - he was on the survey and mentioned the lack of this sort of information in previous press releases to the National Park biologist. Pays to speak up. Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS now reported in Hamilton County, TN (Chattanooga Area)
[From Peter Youngbaer, WNS Liaison] Hamilton County, TN Press release: http://caves.org/WNS/Lookout%20Mountain%20Cave%20May%201,%202012.pdf Note that for the first time in a USFWS-partnered press release we have some contextual information (2 bats = 18% of colony; no mortality). We can thank Ron Miller for this - he was on the survey and mentioned the lack of this sort of information in previous press releases to the National Park biologist. Pays to speak up. Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS Article
I don't recall this one having made the rounds yet. Jeannine Isom from the Hubbard Museum, Ruidoso Downs, sent this to me. BTW, the Hubbard has been having a series on cave-karst presentations to go along with the 3D Lechuguilla exhibit there. From: Jeannine Isom [mailto:jeannine.i...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:25 AM To: Bilbo, Michael J Subject: Bat article Hey Mike This was in my news this morning. Hope you can read it. It is about the origin of White Nose Syndrome http://news.yahoo.com/study-fungus-behind-bat-die-off-came-europe-191829558.html Jeannine Isom If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a past or future event, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system.--William James, philosopher ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS Article
I don't recall this one having made the rounds yet. Jeannine Isom from the Hubbard Museum, Ruidoso Downs, sent this to me. BTW, the Hubbard has been having a series on cave-karst presentations to go along with the 3D Lechuguilla exhibit there. From: Jeannine Isom [mailto:jeannine.i...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:25 AM To: Bilbo, Michael J Subject: Bat article Hey Mike This was in my news this morning. Hope you can read it. It is about the origin of White Nose Syndrome http://news.yahoo.com/study-fungus-behind-bat-die-off-came-europe-191829558.html Jeannine Isom If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a past or future event, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system.--William James, philosopher ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS Article
I don't recall this one having made the rounds yet. Jeannine Isom from the Hubbard Museum, Ruidoso Downs, sent this to me. BTW, the Hubbard has been having a series on cave-karst presentations to go along with the 3D Lechuguilla exhibit there. From: Jeannine Isom [mailto:jeannine.i...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:25 AM To: Bilbo, Michael J Subject: Bat article Hey Mike This was in my news this morning. Hope you can read it. It is about the origin of White Nose Syndrome http://news.yahoo.com/study-fungus-behind-bat-die-off-came-europe-191829558.html Jeannine Isom If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a past or future event, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system.--William James, philosopher ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS
Culprit behind bat scourge confirmed A cold-loving fungus is behind an epidemic decimating bat populations in North America. Susan Young White-nose syndrome is killing bats throughout eastern North America.Greg Turner / Pennsylvania Game Commission Researchers have confirmed that a recently identified fungus is responsible for white-nose syndrome, a deadly disease that is sweeping through bat colonies in eastern North America. The fungus, Geomyces destructans, infects the skin of hibernating bats, causing lesions on the animals' wings and a fluffy white outgrowth on the muzzle. When white-nose syndrome takes hold of a hibernating colony, more than 90% of the bats can die (see Disease epidemic killing only US bats). The disease was first documented in February 2006 in a cave in New York, and has spread to at least 16 other US states and four Canadian provinces. The culpability of G. destructans for this sudden outbreak was thrown into question when the fungus was found on healthy bats in Europe, where it is not associated with the grim mortality levels seen in North America1. Some proposed that the fungus was not the primary cause of the catastrophic die offs, and that another factor — such as an undetected virus — must be to blame. But a study published today in Nature2 reveals that G. destructans is indeed guilty. The fungus alone is sufficient to recreate all the pathology diagnostic for the disease, says David Blehert, a microbiologist at the National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, and senior author on the report. Bat-to-bat spread Blehert and his colleagues collected healthy little brown bats (Myotis lucifugus) from Wisconsin, which is well beyond the known range of white-nose syndrome. They infected the bats by direct administration of G. destructans spores to the skin or by contact with infected bats from New York. By the end of the 102-day experiment, the tell-tale white fungus was growing on the muzzles and wings of all of the directly infected Wisconsin bats and 16 of the 18 exposed to sick bats. This is the first experimental evidence that white-nose syndrome can be passed from bat to bat, and is very worrying from a conservation point of view because bats huddle together in large numbers in caves and mate in large swarms, says Emma Teeling, a bat biologist at University College Dublin in Ireland. If a bat has this fungus on them, it's going to spread quickly throughout the population, says Teeling, who was not involved with the study. It's like a perfect storm. The infected Wisconsin bats did not die during the experiment, which may be due to the limited timeline of infection, the authors suggest. Although the study does not directly show that a healthy bat will die from infection with G. destructans, the results did show that the fungus alone was sufficient to cause lesions diagnostic of white-nose syndrome to form on previously healthy bats, indicating that the fungus is the cause of the deaths so often associated with white-nose syndrome in the wild. To stop a scourge divdiv style= align=center a rel=nofollow target=_blank href=http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3bac/3/0/%2a/e%3B243339106%3B0-0%3B0%3B9916591%3B4307-300/250%3B44718627/44736415/1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://www.eyewonderlabs.com/ct2.cfm?ewbust=0guid=0ewadid=170058eid=1581357file=NOSCRIPTfailover.gifpnl=MainBannertype=0name=Clickthru-NOSCRIPTnum=1time=0diff=0clkX=clkY=click=http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3bac/3/0/%2a/e%3B243339106%3B0-0%3B0%3B9916591%3B4307-300/250%3B44718627/44736415/1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://www.scientificamerican.com/sponsored/energyforthefuture/?id=poll-5WT.mc_id=SA_shell_p5_300x250ros_n; img width=300 height=250 src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/NOSCRIPTfailover.gif; border=0 alt=/ /a div style=display:none; img src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/ewtrack.gif?ewadid=170058; border=0 width=1 height=1/ /div div style=display:none; img src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/ewtrack_f.gif?ewadid=170058; border=0 width=1 height=1/ /div/div/div diva rel=nofollow target=_blank href=http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/n...@nature.com/;abr=!NN2;artid=article-one;pos=left;sz=300x250;ptile=2;ord=123456789?;img src=http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/n...@nature.com/;abr=!NN2;tile=1;ord=123456789?; alt=Advertisement//a/div Since it first appeared, white-nose syndrome has behaved like a novel pathogen spreading from a single origin through a naive population, says Jonathan Sleeman, director of the National Wildlife Health Center, who was not involved in the study. Proof that G. destructans is the primary cause of white-nose syndrome will help us focus our actions or management efforts into the future, he says. Although little can be done to control the spread of the disease through bat-to-bat transmission, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has asked people to stay out of caves
[PBSS] Fw: [SWR] WNS
- Original Message - From: C Tiderman To: undisclosed recipients: Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: [SWR] WNS Culprit behind bat scourge confirmed A cold-loving fungus is behind an epidemic decimating bat populations in North America. Susan Young White-nose syndrome is killing bats throughout eastern North America.Greg Turner / Pennsylvania Game Commission Researchers have confirmed that a recently identified fungus is responsible for white-nose syndrome, a deadly disease that is sweeping through bat colonies in eastern North America. The fungus, Geomyces destructans, infects the skin of hibernating bats, causing lesions on the animals' wings and a fluffy white outgrowth on the muzzle. When white-nose syndrome takes hold of a hibernating colony, more than 90% of the bats can die (see Disease epidemic killing only US bats). The disease was first documented in February 2006 in a cave in New York, and has spread to at least 16 other US states and four Canadian provinces. The culpability of G. destructans for this sudden outbreak was thrown into question when the fungus was found on healthy bats in Europe, where it is not associated with the grim mortality levels seen in North America1. Some proposed that the fungus was not the primary cause of the catastrophic die offs, and that another factor — such as an undetected virus — must be to blame. But a study published today in Nature2 reveals that G. destructans is indeed guilty. The fungus alone is sufficient to recreate all the pathology diagnostic for the disease, says David Blehert, a microbiologist at the National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, and senior author on the report. Bat-to-bat spread Blehert and his colleagues collected healthy little brown bats (Myotis lucifugus) from Wisconsin, which is well beyond the known range of white-nose syndrome. They infected the bats by direct administration of G. destructans spores to the skin or by contact with infected bats from New York. By the end of the 102-day experiment, the tell-tale white fungus was growing on the muzzles and wings of all of the directly infected Wisconsin bats and 16 of the 18 exposed to sick bats. This is the first experimental evidence that white-nose syndrome can be passed from bat to bat, and is very worrying from a conservation point of view because bats huddle together in large numbers in caves and mate in large swarms, says Emma Teeling, a bat biologist at University College Dublin in Ireland. If a bat has this fungus on them, it's going to spread quickly throughout the population, says Teeling, who was not involved with the study. It's like a perfect storm. The infected Wisconsin bats did not die during the experiment, which may be due to the limited timeline of infection, the authors suggest. Although the study does not directly show that a healthy bat will die from infection with G. destructans, the results did show that the fungus alone was sufficient to cause lesions diagnostic of white-nose syndrome to form on previously healthy bats, indicating that the fungus is the cause of the deaths so often associated with white-nose syndrome in the wild. To stop a scourge Since it first appeared, white-nose syndrome has behaved like a novel pathogen spreading from a single origin through a naive population, says Jonathan Sleeman, director of the National Wildlife Health Center, who was not involved in the study. Proof that G. destructans is the primary cause of white-nose syndrome will help us focus our actions or management efforts into the future, he says. Although little can be done to control the spread of the disease through bat-to-bat transmission, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has asked people to stay out of caves in and near affected areas, and has closed some caves on agency-managed land. On 21 October, the FWS announced that up to $1 million in funding will be made available for research on white-nose syndrome. Projects covering topics such as how the fungus proliferates within caves and mines, and the potential for biological means or environmental manipulations to improve bat survival, are among the service's top priorities. Carol ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
[PBSS] Fw: [SWR] WNS
- Original Message - From: C Tiderman To: undisclosed recipients: Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: [SWR] WNS Culprit behind bat scourge confirmed A cold-loving fungus is behind an epidemic decimating bat populations in North America. Susan Young White-nose syndrome is killing bats throughout eastern North America.Greg Turner / Pennsylvania Game Commission Researchers have confirmed that a recently identified fungus is responsible for white-nose syndrome, a deadly disease that is sweeping through bat colonies in eastern North America. The fungus, Geomyces destructans, infects the skin of hibernating bats, causing lesions on the animals' wings and a fluffy white outgrowth on the muzzle. When white-nose syndrome takes hold of a hibernating colony, more than 90% of the bats can die (see Disease epidemic killing only US bats). The disease was first documented in February 2006 in a cave in New York, and has spread to at least 16 other US states and four Canadian provinces. The culpability of G. destructans for this sudden outbreak was thrown into question when the fungus was found on healthy bats in Europe, where it is not associated with the grim mortality levels seen in North America1. Some proposed that the fungus was not the primary cause of the catastrophic die offs, and that another factor — such as an undetected virus — must be to blame. But a study published today in Nature2 reveals that G. destructans is indeed guilty. The fungus alone is sufficient to recreate all the pathology diagnostic for the disease, says David Blehert, a microbiologist at the National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, and senior author on the report. Bat-to-bat spread Blehert and his colleagues collected healthy little brown bats (Myotis lucifugus) from Wisconsin, which is well beyond the known range of white-nose syndrome. They infected the bats by direct administration of G. destructans spores to the skin or by contact with infected bats from New York. By the end of the 102-day experiment, the tell-tale white fungus was growing on the muzzles and wings of all of the directly infected Wisconsin bats and 16 of the 18 exposed to sick bats. This is the first experimental evidence that white-nose syndrome can be passed from bat to bat, and is very worrying from a conservation point of view because bats huddle together in large numbers in caves and mate in large swarms, says Emma Teeling, a bat biologist at University College Dublin in Ireland. If a bat has this fungus on them, it's going to spread quickly throughout the population, says Teeling, who was not involved with the study. It's like a perfect storm. The infected Wisconsin bats did not die during the experiment, which may be due to the limited timeline of infection, the authors suggest. Although the study does not directly show that a healthy bat will die from infection with G. destructans, the results did show that the fungus alone was sufficient to cause lesions diagnostic of white-nose syndrome to form on previously healthy bats, indicating that the fungus is the cause of the deaths so often associated with white-nose syndrome in the wild. To stop a scourge Since it first appeared, white-nose syndrome has behaved like a novel pathogen spreading from a single origin through a naive population, says Jonathan Sleeman, director of the National Wildlife Health Center, who was not involved in the study. Proof that G. destructans is the primary cause of white-nose syndrome will help us focus our actions or management efforts into the future, he says. Although little can be done to control the spread of the disease through bat-to-bat transmission, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has asked people to stay out of caves in and near affected areas, and has closed some caves on agency-managed land. On 21 October, the FWS announced that up to $1 million in funding will be made available for research on white-nose syndrome. Projects covering topics such as how the fungus proliferates within caves and mines, and the potential for biological means or environmental manipulations to improve bat survival, are among the service's top priorities. Carol ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
[SWR] WNS
Culprit behind bat scourge confirmed A cold-loving fungus is behind an epidemic decimating bat populations in North America. Susan Young White-nose syndrome is killing bats throughout eastern North America.Greg Turner / Pennsylvania Game Commission Researchers have confirmed that a recently identified fungus is responsible for white-nose syndrome, a deadly disease that is sweeping through bat colonies in eastern North America. The fungus, Geomyces destructans, infects the skin of hibernating bats, causing lesions on the animals' wings and a fluffy white outgrowth on the muzzle. When white-nose syndrome takes hold of a hibernating colony, more than 90% of the bats can die (see Disease epidemic killing only US bats). The disease was first documented in February 2006 in a cave in New York, and has spread to at least 16 other US states and four Canadian provinces. The culpability of G. destructans for this sudden outbreak was thrown into question when the fungus was found on healthy bats in Europe, where it is not associated with the grim mortality levels seen in North America1. Some proposed that the fungus was not the primary cause of the catastrophic die offs, and that another factor — such as an undetected virus — must be to blame. But a study published today in Nature2 reveals that G. destructans is indeed guilty. The fungus alone is sufficient to recreate all the pathology diagnostic for the disease, says David Blehert, a microbiologist at the National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, and senior author on the report. Bat-to-bat spread Blehert and his colleagues collected healthy little brown bats (Myotis lucifugus) from Wisconsin, which is well beyond the known range of white-nose syndrome. They infected the bats by direct administration of G. destructans spores to the skin or by contact with infected bats from New York. By the end of the 102-day experiment, the tell-tale white fungus was growing on the muzzles and wings of all of the directly infected Wisconsin bats and 16 of the 18 exposed to sick bats. This is the first experimental evidence that white-nose syndrome can be passed from bat to bat, and is very worrying from a conservation point of view because bats huddle together in large numbers in caves and mate in large swarms, says Emma Teeling, a bat biologist at University College Dublin in Ireland. If a bat has this fungus on them, it's going to spread quickly throughout the population, says Teeling, who was not involved with the study. It's like a perfect storm. The infected Wisconsin bats did not die during the experiment, which may be due to the limited timeline of infection, the authors suggest. Although the study does not directly show that a healthy bat will die from infection with G. destructans, the results did show that the fungus alone was sufficient to cause lesions diagnostic of white-nose syndrome to form on previously healthy bats, indicating that the fungus is the cause of the deaths so often associated with white-nose syndrome in the wild. To stop a scourge divdiv style= align=center a rel=nofollow target=_blank href=http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3bac/3/0/%2a/e%3B243339106%3B0-0%3B0%3B9916591%3B4307-300/250%3B44718627/44736415/1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://www.eyewonderlabs.com/ct2.cfm?ewbust=0guid=0ewadid=170058eid=1581357file=NOSCRIPTfailover.gifpnl=MainBannertype=0name=Clickthru-NOSCRIPTnum=1time=0diff=0clkX=clkY=click=http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3bac/3/0/%2a/e%3B243339106%3B0-0%3B0%3B9916591%3B4307-300/250%3B44718627/44736415/1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://www.scientificamerican.com/sponsored/energyforthefuture/?id=poll-5WT.mc_id=SA_shell_p5_300x250ros_n; img width=300 height=250 src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/NOSCRIPTfailover.gif; border=0 alt=/ /a div style=display:none; img src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/ewtrack.gif?ewadid=170058; border=0 width=1 height=1/ /div div style=display:none; img src=http://cdn.eyewonder.com/100125/771435/1581357/ewtrack_f.gif?ewadid=170058; border=0 width=1 height=1/ /div/div/div diva rel=nofollow target=_blank href=http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/n...@nature.com/;abr=!NN2;artid=article-one;pos=left;sz=300x250;ptile=2;ord=123456789?;img src=http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/n...@nature.com/;abr=!NN2;tile=1;ord=123456789?; alt=Advertisement//a/div Since it first appeared, white-nose syndrome has behaved like a novel pathogen spreading from a single origin through a naive population, says Jonathan Sleeman, director of the National Wildlife Health Center, who was not involved in the study. Proof that G. destructans is the primary cause of white-nose syndrome will help us focus our actions or management efforts into the future, he says. Although little can be done to control the spread of the disease through bat-to-bat transmission, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has asked people to stay out of caves
[PBSS] Fw: [SWR] WNS
- Original Message - From: C Tiderman To: undisclosed recipients: Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: [SWR] WNS Culprit behind bat scourge confirmed A cold-loving fungus is behind an epidemic decimating bat populations in North America. Susan Young White-nose syndrome is killing bats throughout eastern North America.Greg Turner / Pennsylvania Game Commission Researchers have confirmed that a recently identified fungus is responsible for white-nose syndrome, a deadly disease that is sweeping through bat colonies in eastern North America. The fungus, Geomyces destructans, infects the skin of hibernating bats, causing lesions on the animals' wings and a fluffy white outgrowth on the muzzle. When white-nose syndrome takes hold of a hibernating colony, more than 90% of the bats can die (see Disease epidemic killing only US bats). The disease was first documented in February 2006 in a cave in New York, and has spread to at least 16 other US states and four Canadian provinces. The culpability of G. destructans for this sudden outbreak was thrown into question when the fungus was found on healthy bats in Europe, where it is not associated with the grim mortality levels seen in North America1. Some proposed that the fungus was not the primary cause of the catastrophic die offs, and that another factor — such as an undetected virus — must be to blame. But a study published today in Nature2 reveals that G. destructans is indeed guilty. The fungus alone is sufficient to recreate all the pathology diagnostic for the disease, says David Blehert, a microbiologist at the National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, and senior author on the report. Bat-to-bat spread Blehert and his colleagues collected healthy little brown bats (Myotis lucifugus) from Wisconsin, which is well beyond the known range of white-nose syndrome. They infected the bats by direct administration of G. destructans spores to the skin or by contact with infected bats from New York. By the end of the 102-day experiment, the tell-tale white fungus was growing on the muzzles and wings of all of the directly infected Wisconsin bats and 16 of the 18 exposed to sick bats. This is the first experimental evidence that white-nose syndrome can be passed from bat to bat, and is very worrying from a conservation point of view because bats huddle together in large numbers in caves and mate in large swarms, says Emma Teeling, a bat biologist at University College Dublin in Ireland. If a bat has this fungus on them, it's going to spread quickly throughout the population, says Teeling, who was not involved with the study. It's like a perfect storm. The infected Wisconsin bats did not die during the experiment, which may be due to the limited timeline of infection, the authors suggest. Although the study does not directly show that a healthy bat will die from infection with G. destructans, the results did show that the fungus alone was sufficient to cause lesions diagnostic of white-nose syndrome to form on previously healthy bats, indicating that the fungus is the cause of the deaths so often associated with white-nose syndrome in the wild. To stop a scourge Since it first appeared, white-nose syndrome has behaved like a novel pathogen spreading from a single origin through a naive population, says Jonathan Sleeman, director of the National Wildlife Health Center, who was not involved in the study. Proof that G. destructans is the primary cause of white-nose syndrome will help us focus our actions or management efforts into the future, he says. Although little can be done to control the spread of the disease through bat-to-bat transmission, the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has asked people to stay out of caves in and near affected areas, and has closed some caves on agency-managed land. On 21 October, the FWS announced that up to $1 million in funding will be made available for research on white-nose syndrome. Projects covering topics such as how the fungus proliferates within caves and mines, and the potential for biological means or environmental manipulations to improve bat survival, are among the service's top priorities. Carol ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread
Re: [SWR] WNS
Robert, I didn't speak for you or other scientists not on the CDB petition. I spoke about the petition that Aaron posted from the CBD. You yourself know the value of scientific method. If you find offense at this, then please provide proof that WNS is spread by humans, using scientific method. That is all I ask. Carl. P.S. My chairs don't have arms.and I'm still a caver. I didn't attend the regional because I just got back from a 5,000 mile solo motorcycle ride to Vancouver Island, BC, Canada... On May 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Robert Grubbs wrote: Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include
Re: [SWR] WNS
Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread
Re: [SWR] WNS
Robert, I didn't speak for you or other scientists not on the CDB petition. I spoke about the petition that Aaron posted from the CBD. You yourself know the value of scientific method. If you find offense at this, then please provide proof that WNS is spread by humans, using scientific method. That is all I ask. Carl. P.S. My chairs don't have arms.and I'm still a caver. I didn't attend the regional because I just got back from a 5,000 mile solo motorcycle ride to Vancouver Island, BC, Canada... On May 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Robert Grubbs wrote: Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include
Re: [SWR] WNS
Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread
Re: [SWR] WNS
Robert, I didn't speak for you or other scientists not on the CDB petition. I spoke about the petition that Aaron posted from the CBD. You yourself know the value of scientific method. If you find offense at this, then please provide proof that WNS is spread by humans, using scientific method. That is all I ask. Carl. P.S. My chairs don't have arms.and I'm still a caver. I didn't attend the regional because I just got back from a 5,000 mile solo motorcycle ride to Vancouver Island, BC, Canada... On May 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Robert Grubbs wrote: Please keep in mind that there are also extemist armchair cavers who like to rant for the sake of argument and rightously think they have something intelligent to say. Carl Pagano does not speak for this scientist. Dr. Robert. K. Grubbs Ph.D. On Sat May 28th, 2011 9:25 AM MDT Carl Pagano wrote: Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, either put up, or shut up. Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. The unsupported petition in printed form is useful, but only for a camping colonic emergency. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data, here, on the SWR website. Carl. On May 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM, aaronjst...@hotmail.com wrote: I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net -- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] WNS
Hi Bill, and thanks. Steve mentioned a cleaned up version. Here it is. Feel free to use it as a petition, as I mentioned to Steve. Carl... Having read the petition: Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by human traffic should adhere more closely to scientific method, including all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures, and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting I have read about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has also been done. A hypothesis is then formed, in this case, that further infection of caves by WNS could be spread by humans. This is the last step that has been taken to my knowledge so far. The next step is to do an experiment, using a control and a study group. At this point, everything falls flat. To my knowledge, there has not been one valid experiment to conclusively show that WNS is spread by humans. Further, after the experiment is done, the conclusions presented must be able to be duplicated with the same results. This again, has not been done to my knowledge. It is only after all of these steps are taken, in exact order, that conclusions and valid, supported decisions can be made regarding cave closures. As such, without the use of and adherence to scientific method to prove or disprove that humans are in part, spreading WNS, the closure of any cave is invalid. To be very blunt to all those who advocate the closure of caves, Prove the point, using valid scientific method. Until then the petition listed below is extremist, unsupported by any accompanying scientific data to prove or disprove that human traffic into caves is partially spreading WNS throughout U.S. caves. If the statements presented above are wrong, then prove them wrong, with valid, duplicated, supportive scientific data. Carl Pagano.Caver, 20+years Hospital based Health Care Professional, Albuquerque, New Mexico On May 28, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Bill Ellis wrote: To all; Very well stated Carl. We have a real need to return to the scientific method when considering data and making environmental policy decisions. Making assumptions, having feel good knee jerk reactions and using models does not yield the desired results in most cases. I'm still waiting for the global warming extremists to use data not obtained by modeling to support their arguments. Time to clean up the scientific act as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Carl Pagano To: s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS To all: Having read the petition: By the time the lawyers line up, litigation takes place, etc. the disease will either have already spread to the west, or we'll have learned correctly that this petition is one of extremism, and that the spread of WNS cannot be stopped by the blanket closure of caves. External quarantine of cavers is easy. You cannot quarantine the bats living in the caves. Why is it, that these scientists cannot understand this? Bats move, just like people do, to better digs when they want to, incredibly, without the aid of any humans including lawyers or scientists with as yet unproven theories. Perhaps all who advocate the closure of caves without proving that it is spread by cavers should, to paraphrase the expression, Wake Up, and Smell The Guano. This does include all BLM, Forest Service, and NPS officials who advocate only some cave closures (God forbid Carlsbad is EVER closed as $$$ are involved here), and the extremist scientists and litigation lawyers who advocate blanket closures and wrote the petition listed below. The petition does not show one bit of supportive scientific data regarding the spread by humans. To date during all of the posting on SWR about WNS, there has not been one bit of data, i.e. a study or otherwise, presented to conclusively and without a doubt, show that WNS is indeed spread by human traffic into caves. This would involve studying caves were there has not been any human traffic, i.e. a control group or subject. First, it would involve making an observation, that there is WNS in caves, which has been done, then asking a question; how is is spreading?, which has
[SWR] WNS
I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS
I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] WNS
I might be behind the times on this but this was brought to my attention today. Looks like the efforts put forth by the BLM that most cavers disagreed with were still not enough for the Center for Biological Diversity. Their website also specifically sites BLM's unwillingness to institute a blanket closure. http://www.caves.org/WNS/CBD%20Bat_APA_Petition_NOI_5-25-11.pdf Aaron Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[PBSS] Fw: [SWR] WNS confirmed in Indiana
- Original Message - From: jennifer bigredfo...@yahoo.com To: nmbat_working_gr...@googlegroups.com; s...@caver.net Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:27 PM Subject: [SWR] WNS confirmed in Indiana Here's the press release - just out: DNR NEWS Indiana Department of Natural Resources 402 W. Washington St. W255 B Indianapolis, IN 46204-2748 Phone: (317) 232-4200 For immediate release: Feb. 1, 2011 Bat tests positive for white-nosed fungus The Indiana Department of Natural Resources and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have received confirmation that a bat found in a southern Indiana cave has tested positive for the fungus that causes white-nose syndrome. The case is the state’s first for the WNS fungus, believed to be responsible for the deaths of more than one million bats in the eastern United States. Researchers doing biennial bat counts at Endless Cave in Washington County discovered two little brown bats on Jan. 23 that exhibited the white fungus characteristic of WNS. One of the bats was euthanized and sent to the U.S. Geological Survey’s National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, which later confirmed the presence of the WNS-associated fungus. Additional bats with signs of WNS were discovered during routine bat count surveys at other caves. “We knew WNS was likely to reach Indiana caves this year, and we have been working closely with biologists from the DNR to prepare for this as well as we could,” said Tom Melius, the Service’s Midwest Regional Director. “Nonetheless, it is devastating to actually confirm the presence of the fungus and witness the symptoms of WNS in bats. While there is currently no cure and no treatment for this disease, we will put all our energies into contributing to the ongoing efforts to understand and combat WNS.” The fungus has been discovered in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, Canada. Researchers associate WNS with a newly identified fungus, Geomyces destructans, which thrives in the cold and humid conditions characteristic of caves and mines used by hibernating bats. Experts believe WNS is transmitted primarily from bat to bat, but they also caution it may be transmitted by humans inadvertently carrying fungal spores from cave to cave on their clothing and caving gear. The DNR closed public access to all caves on state-managed properties two years ago, including Endless Cave in the Cave River Valley Natural Area managed by the DNR Division of State Parks Reservoirs as part of Spring Mill State Park. “We will continue to keep all of our caves closed, and we are urging private cave owners to either not allow access to their caves or require visitors to follow USFWS decontamination procedures,” DNR deputy director John Davis said. “The whole effort is to slow the spread and have movement of the disease not be exacerbated by human interference.” Physical signs associated with WNS are a white fungus on the bat’s nose, wings, ears or tail membrane. Bats afflicted with WNS often exhibit unusual behavior in winter, including clustering near hibernacula entrances. Affected bats also may leave their hibernacula during the day and may be observed flying or clinging to rocks outside or on nearby buildings. Dead or dying bats are often found on the ground near affected areas. For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.dnr.in.gov/batdisease and www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome -30- Media contact: Phil Bloom, DNR Division of Communications, 317-232-4003 or pbl...@dnr.in.gov Georgia Parham, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 812-334-4261 x 1203 or georgia_par...@fws.gov ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
[SWR] WNS confirmed in Indiana
Here's the press release - just out: DNR NEWS Indiana Department of Natural Resources 402 W. Washington St. W255 B Indianapolis, IN 46204-2748 Phone: (317) 232-4200 For immediate release: Feb. 1, 2011 Bat tests positive for white-nosed fungus The Indiana Department of Natural Resources and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have received confirmation that a bat found in a southern Indiana cave has tested positive for the fungus that causes white-nose syndrome. The case is the state’s first for the WNS fungus, believed to be responsible for the deaths of more than one million bats in the eastern United States. Researchers doing biennial bat counts at Endless Cave in Washington County discovered two little brown bats on Jan. 23 that exhibited the white fungus characteristic of WNS. One of the bats was euthanized and sent to the U.S. Geological Survey’s National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, which later confirmed the presence of the WNS-associated fungus. Additional bats with signs of WNS were discovered during routine bat count surveys at other caves. “We knew WNS was likely to reach Indiana caves this year, and we have been working closely with biologists from the DNR to prepare for this as well as we could,” said Tom Melius, the Service’s Midwest Regional Director. “Nonetheless, it is devastating to actually confirm the presence of the fungus and witness the symptoms of WNS in bats. While there is currently no cure and no treatment for this disease, we will put all our energies into contributing to the ongoing efforts to understand and combat WNS.” The fungus has been discovered in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, Canada. Researchers associate WNS with a newly identified fungus, Geomyces destructans, which thrives in the cold and humid conditions characteristic of caves and mines used by hibernating bats. Experts believe WNS is transmitted primarily from bat to bat, but they also caution it may be transmitted by humans inadvertently carrying fungal spores from cave to cave on their clothing and caving gear. The DNR closed public access to all caves on state-managed properties two years ago, including Endless Cave in the Cave River Valley Natural Area managed by the DNR Division of State Parks Reservoirs as part of Spring Mill State Park. “We will continue to keep all of our caves closed, and we are urging private cave owners to either not allow access to their caves or require visitors to follow USFWS decontamination procedures,” DNR deputy director John Davis said. “The whole effort is to slow the spread and have movement of the disease not be exacerbated by human interference.” Physical signs associated with WNS are a white fungus on the bat’s nose, wings, ears or tail membrane. Bats afflicted with WNS often exhibit unusual behavior in winter, including clustering near hibernacula entrances. Affected bats also may leave their hibernacula during the day and may be observed flying or clinging to rocks outside or on nearby buildings. Dead or dying bats are often found on the ground near affected areas. For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.dnr.in.gov/batdisease and www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome -30- Media contact: Phil Bloom, DNR Division of Communications, 317-232-4003 or pbl...@dnr.in.gov Georgia Parham, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 812-334-4261 x 1203 or georgia_par...@fws.gov ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[Texascavers] Fwd: [SWR] WNS confirmed in Indiana
From: jennifer bigredfo...@yahoo.com Date: February 1, 2011 6:27:04 PM CST To: nmbat_working_gr...@googlegroups.com, s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS confirmed in Indiana Here's the press release - just out: DNR NEWS Indiana Department of Natural Resources 402 W. Washington St. W255 B Indianapolis, IN 46204-2748 Phone: (317) 232-4200 For immediate release: Feb. 1, 2011 Bat tests positive for white-nosed fungus The Indiana Department of Natural Resources and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have received confirmation that a bat found in a southern Indiana cave has tested positive for the fungus that causes white-nose syndrome. The case is the state’s first for the WNS fungus, believed to be responsible for the deaths of more than one million bats in the eastern United States. Researchers doing biennial bat counts at Endless Cave in Washington County discovered two little brown bats on Jan. 23 that exhibited the white fungus characteristic of WNS. One of the bats was euthanized and sent to the U.S. Geological Survey’s National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wisconsin, which later confirmed the presence of the WNS-associated fungus. Additional bats with signs of WNS were discovered during routine bat count surveys at other caves. “We knew WNS was likely to reach Indiana caves this year, and we have been working closely with biologists from the DNR to prepare for this as well as we could,” said Tom Melius, the Service’s Midwest Regional Director. “Nonetheless, it is devastating to actually confirm the presence of the fungus and witness the symptoms of WNS in bats. While there is currently no cure and no treatment for this disease, we will put all our energies into contributing to the ongoing efforts to understand and combat WNS.” The fungus has been discovered in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, Canada. Researchers associate WNS with a newly identified fungus, Geomyces destructans, which thrives in the cold and humid conditions characteristic of caves and mines used by hibernating bats. Experts believe WNS is transmitted primarily from bat to bat, but they also caution it may be transmitted by humans inadvertently carrying fungal spores from cave to cave on their clothing and caving gear. The DNR closed public access to all caves on state-managed properties two years ago, including Endless Cave in the Cave River Valley Natural Area managed by the DNR Division of State Parks Reservoirs as part of Spring Mill State Park. “We will continue to keep all of our caves closed, and we are urging private cave owners to either not allow access to their caves or require visitors to follow USFWS decontamination procedures,” DNR deputy director John Davis said. “The whole effort is to slow the spread and have movement of the disease not be exacerbated by human interference.” Physical signs associated with WNS are a white fungus on the bat’s nose, wings, ears or tail membrane. Bats afflicted with WNS often exhibit unusual behavior in winter, including clustering near hibernacula entrances. Affected bats also may leave their hibernacula during the day and may be observed flying or clinging to rocks outside or on nearby buildings. Dead or dying bats are often found on the ground near affected areas. For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.dnr.in.gov/batdisease and www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome -30- Media contact: Phil Bloom, DNR Division of Communications, 317-232-4003 or pbl...@dnr.in.gov Georgia Parham, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 812-334-4261 x 1203 or georgia_par...@fws.gov ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
