RE: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Thanks, Joe! Very well put. Don's offer of thorns and cow pies does hold a strange allure, for some reason! Mark From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] Sent: Wed 12/2/2009 3:34 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
As much as I like the idea that people are trying to accommodate me, I will either come or not depending on time, not gas money. We really should consider the wishes of the vice chair and largest number of people who actually do attend. I really feel for the college students who say they have neither the time nor the money (I _do_ remember college...barely) but if students don't show up when things are next door to them I don't feel obligated to keep holding things next door for their convenience just in case. Dave's Brenham area place sounds interesting...it sounded interesting when we used Albert but we had already committed to Albert when Dave brought it up. If Camp Happy Hollow has the kitchen/lodge as Amanda remembers, why not? It's a paper convention and caves would only distract us from the real reason for being there (and annoy the presenters). To paraphrase Joe Ranzau, Ellie should have it wherever it works for Ellie and we will either adjust or run for Vice Chair. Regards to all, Jacqui - Original Message - From: Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net To: David dlocklea...@gmail.com; Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related David, Gas is not an issue for me, it's the drive time involved... Have it where you want and I'll consider if I can make it or not... Bill - Original Message - From: David dlocklea...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related In response to Stefan's post, the camp is less than one hour due east of the town of Giddings. Meaning, The camp is 4 1/2 hours from Dallas. Ft. Worth, would be a different route, but still at 4 1/2 hours. San Antonio would be 3 hours. LAG cavers would have to drive 10 1/2 hours. Ouch ! PBSS would have a 9 hour road-trip. El Paso would be the farthest at 11 1/2 hours. Sea Aggies would only have a 2 hour 15 minute trip. College Station Aggies would only have 1 hour 15 minute. Maybe a fund could be set up to help the West Texas cavers pay for gas, with the money saved from the low rent cost of the camp. ( that is still a big assumption ). Again, I would like to emphasize that I am only trying to see if anyone is interested in considering this camp. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
In response to Stefan's post, the camp is less than one hour due east of the town of Giddings. Meaning, The camp is 4 1/2 hours from Dallas. Ft. Worth, would be a different route, but still at 4 1/2 hours. San Antonio would be 3 hours. LAG cavers would have to drive 10 1/2 hours. Ouch ! PBSS would have a 9 hour road-trip. El Paso would be the farthest at 11 1/2 hours. Sea Aggies would only have a 2 hour 15 minute trip. College Station Aggies would only have 1 hour 15 minute. Maybe a fund could be set up to help the West Texas cavers pay for gas, with the money saved from the low rent cost of the camp. ( that is still a big assumption ). Again, I would like to emphasize that I am only trying to see if anyone is interested in considering this camp. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
To my recollection from my youth, Camp Happy Hollow had a kitchen and lodge, with restrooms. It also is only about 1.5 hours from Austin - not that far at all. Brenham is a nice place... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.comwrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Amanda Scott 979-229-9430 mamaarsc...@gmail.com
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country. However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, USA Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383
RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
True. I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work. Cheers, Denise List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 + From: jran...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600 for the 3 day weekend. The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation. Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp with the Oztotl logo. I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get my feelings hurt. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Doesn't some caver own a field surrounded by a few trees? How big does it have to be? Three acres? Five acres would easily do it. I went to one of the events a few years ago in April, it was west of San Marcos. Cost more than it should for only 2 or 3 days and I frankly do not know why? Everyone camped in a field of less than 2 acres. There was one ordinary KY style outhouse, certainly nothing fancy. And, there was a plain small 30 x 40 ft. building for presentations on Sat. I think all of that, including one meal, cost at least a thousand, maybe two thou. It fact a hat had to be passed around to break even. On Sunday the conservation meetings were conducted outside. What did we pay for except a place to park our vehicle? Ediger, Ernie, Don or Raines, and others, I thought had several acres which could work, and they are centrally located in the state. I have never understood why one of those events should cost $40-50 for two people for only 2 to 2 1/2 days. Preston --- - Original Message - From: Denise P To: TexasCavers Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related True. I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work. Cheers, Denise -- Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 + From: jran...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
I'd be happy to host. I have 350 acres in Bee County. That's between Corpus Christi and San Antonio. Free, no charge. Large Pavillion and one windmill. No river, creek or kitchen. Plenty of thorns and cow pies. Don's iPhone. On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net wrote: Doesn't some caver own a field surrounded by a few trees? How big does it have to be? Three acres? Five acres would easily do it. I went to one of the events a few years ago in April, it was west of San Marcos. Cost more than it should for only 2 or 3 days and I frankly do not know why? Everyone camped in a field of less than 2 acres. There was one ordinary KY style outhouse, certainly nothing fancy. And, there was a plain small 30 x 40 ft. building for presentations on Sat. I think all of that, including one meal, cost at least a thousand, maybe two thou. It fact a hat had to be passed around to break even. On Sunday the conservation meetings were conducted outside. What did we pay for except a place to park our vehicle? Ediger, Ernie, Don or Raines, and others, I thought had several acres which could work, and they are centrally located in the state. I have never understood why one of those events should cost $40-50 for two people for only 2 to 2 1/2 days. Preston --- - Original Message - From: Denise P To: TexasCavers Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related True. I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work. Cheers, Denise Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 + From: jran...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travelconstraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
One of the biggest expenses of a TSA Convention is the absolute requirement of a large enough building to hold talks and to also have room for the Photo and Map Salons. The building needs to be covered from the elements and needs to be dark enough so that people can see a PowerPoint presentation. It also needs to have sufficient electrical outlets...and many people clamor for air conditioning (though I think that in April in Texas that's not absolutely necessary, but others would disagree). Recently we've had a group of cavers that enjoy cooking dinner on Saturday night. So now you also need a building that also has kitchen facilities. Add to this the requirement of two nights camping, plus restroom facilities and parking spots. Preston, when was the last time you checked on how much it costs to rent such a facility for two days? It's not cheap, and only about 100-120 people show up at the TSA Convention, so you do not have the same economies of scale as TCR (typical attendance of 300+). Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Preston Forsythe wrote: Doesn't some caver own a field surrounded by a few trees? How big does it have to be? Three acres? Five acres would easily do it. I went to one of the events a few years ago in April, it was west of San Marcos. Cost more than it should for only 2 or 3 days and I frankly do not know why? Everyone camped in a field of less than 2 acres. There was one ordinary KY style outhouse, certainly nothing fancy. And, there was a plain small 30 x 40 ft. building for presentations on Sat. I think all of that, including one meal, cost at least a thousand, maybe two thou. It fact a hat had to be passed around to break even. On Sunday the conservation meetings were conducted outside. What did we pay for except a place to park our vehicle? Ediger, Ernie, Don or Raines, and others, I thought had several acres which could work, and they are centrally located in the state. I have never understood why one of those events should cost $40-50 for two people for only 2 to 2 1/2 days. Preston --- - Original Message - From: Denise P To: TexasCavers Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related True. I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work. Cheers, Denise Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 + From: jran...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
David, Gas is not an issue for me, it's the drive time involved... Have it where you want and I'll consider if I can make it or not... Bill - Original Message - From: David dlocklea...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related In response to Stefan's post, the camp is less than one hour due east of the town of Giddings. Meaning, The camp is 4 1/2 hours from Dallas. Ft. Worth, would be a different route, but still at 4 1/2 hours. San Antonio would be 3 hours. LAG cavers would have to drive 10 1/2 hours. Ouch ! PBSS would have a 9 hour road-trip. El Paso would be the farthest at 11 1/2 hours. Sea Aggies would only have a 2 hour 15 minute trip. College Station Aggies would only have 1 hour 15 minute. Maybe a fund could be set up to help the West Texas cavers pay for gas, with the money saved from the low rent cost of the camp. ( that is still a big assumption ). Again, I would like to emphasize that I am only trying to see if anyone is interested in considering this camp. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
