Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Yes Galen, you are one of the few Austin area cavers that volunteer and we really appreciate it. Leslie Bell, Chris Franke, Chad, Bob and Cindy West, and some others I don't remember now, graciously volunteer their time, providing great results. I wish we had twenty more cavers like you guys. After cave day a couple of weeks ago, some of the cavers did go caving, but it wasn't in Becks Cave. They went to another of our caves, but they cut the trip short due to bad air. Nobody in our organization wants to see recreational caving curtailed, but that is what is happening because of the actions of a few individuals who did not use common sense. Now Becks Cave may be subjected to electronic monitoring and all trespassers will be arrested and prosecuted including cavers who are our friends. This means access will only be granted for "official" trips. This means scientific study, species monitoring, and conservation/cleanup. Anyone wishing to go caving in Becks may want to consider volunteering for these functions, as that may be the only way to go there in the future. By the way, the next conservation trip is in february. You may want to contact Mike early about this, as the number of people needed will be limited. This area out here will continue to be developed, we cannot stop this. What we can do, is work with the cave owners so we are allowed access to the caves for management activities. Hopefully we can keep some the caves available for recreational use also. This is one of the purposes of the TCC. We don't want to feel like we have to restrict or "punish" any cavers. We do appreciate all volunteers and try to make it worth their while for their efforts. It is frustrating though when so few volunteers come from our local grotto. Frankly, we have gotten more help from the San Antonio, Dallas, and Texas A&M areas than from Austin. There is a lot to be done on the various cave preserves we manage out here, but it takes volunteers to get it done. Right now we can count our number of dependable volunteers on the fingers of our hands. This is a situation that I feel can be improved upon, but this means cavers are going to have to step up to the plate and actually be willing to help out. There could be some small side benefits involved. For example, free firewood for some one who wants to deal with some dead trees on some of our preserves. I know it isn't much to offer, but someone is going to deal with these things, probably me if cavers are not willing to help out. I really think that it is in the best interests of all cavers to work with an organization, such as ours, to voluntarily help protect and preserve the area's caves. The cave owners will see this, as well as our public education efforts, as a positive benefit of having cavers around. This will result in continued access to the caves that we all want to have. I feel this is a goal worthy of pursuing. Sincerely, Freddie. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, GalenFalgout wrote: From: GalenFalgout Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "freddie poer" , "George D. Nincehelser" Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 7:44 AM Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property > owners, or the own
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Yes Galen, you are one of the few Austin area cavers that volunteer and we really appreciate it. Leslie Bell, Chris Franke, Chad, Bob and Cindy West, and some others I don't remember now, graciously volunteer their time, providing great results. I wish we had twenty more cavers like you guys. After cave day a couple of weeks ago, some of the cavers did go caving, but it wasn't in Becks Cave. They went to another of our caves, but they cut the trip short due to bad air. Nobody in our organization wants to see recreational caving curtailed, but that is what is happening because of the actions of a few individuals who did not use common sense. Now Becks Cave may be subjected to electronic monitoring and all trespassers will be arrested and prosecuted including cavers who are our friends. This means access will only be granted for "official" trips. This means scientific study, species monitoring, and conservation/cleanup. Anyone wishing to go caving in Becks may want to consider volunteering for these functions, as that may be the only way to go there in the future. By the way, the next conservation trip is in february. You may want to contact Mike early about this, as the number of people needed will be limited. This area out here will continue to be developed, we cannot stop this. What we can do, is work with the cave owners so we are allowed access to the caves for management activities. Hopefully we can keep some the caves available for recreational use also. This is one of the purposes of the TCC. We don't want to feel like we have to restrict or "punish" any cavers. We do appreciate all volunteers and try to make it worth their while for their efforts. It is frustrating though when so few volunteers come from our local grotto. Frankly, we have gotten more help from the San Antonio, Dallas, and Texas A&M areas than from Austin. There is a lot to be done on the various cave preserves we manage out here, but it takes volunteers to get it done. Right now we can count our number of dependable volunteers on the fingers of our hands. This is a situation that I feel can be improved upon, but this means cavers are going to have to step up to the plate and actually be willing to help out. There could be some small side benefits involved. For example, free firewood for some one who wants to deal with some dead trees on some of our preserves. I know it isn't much to offer, but someone is going to deal with these things, probably me if cavers are not willing to help out. I really think that it is in the best interests of all cavers to work with an organization, such as ours, to voluntarily help protect and preserve the area's caves. The cave owners will see this, as well as our public education efforts, as a positive benefit of having cavers around. This will result in continued access to the caves that we all want to have. I feel this is a goal worthy of pursuing. Sincerely, Freddie. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, GalenFalgout wrote: From: GalenFalgout Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "freddie poer" , "George D. Nincehelser" Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 7:44 AM Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of t
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Yes Galen, you are one of the few Austin area cavers that volunteer and we really appreciate it. Leslie Bell, Chris Franke, Chad, Bob and Cindy West, and some others I don't remember now, graciously volunteer their time, providing great results. I wish we had twenty more cavers like you guys. After cave day a couple of weeks ago, some of the cavers did go caving, but it wasn't in Becks Cave. They went to another of our caves, but they cut the trip short due to bad air. Nobody in our organization wants to see recreational caving curtailed, but that is what is happening because of the actions of a few individuals who did not use common sense. Now Becks Cave may be subjected to electronic monitoring and all trespassers will be arrested and prosecuted including cavers who are our friends. This means access will only be granted for "official" trips. This means scientific study, species monitoring, and conservation/cleanup. Anyone wishing to go caving in Becks may want to consider volunteering for these functions, as that may be the only way to go there in the future. By the way, the next conservation trip is in february. You may want to contact Mike early about this, as the number of people needed will be limited. This area out here will continue to be developed, we cannot stop this. What we can do, is work with the cave owners so we are allowed access to the caves for management activities. Hopefully we can keep some the caves available for recreational use also. This is one of the purposes of the TCC. We don't want to feel like we have to restrict or "punish" any cavers. We do appreciate all volunteers and try to make it worth their while for their efforts. It is frustrating though when so few volunteers come from our local grotto. Frankly, we have gotten more help from the San Antonio, Dallas, and Texas A&M areas than from Austin. There is a lot to be done on the various cave preserves we manage out here, but it takes volunteers to get it done. Right now we can count our number of dependable volunteers on the fingers of our hands. This is a situation that I feel can be improved upon, but this means cavers are going to have to step up to the plate and actually be willing to help out. There could be some small side benefits involved. For example, free firewood for some one who wants to deal with some dead trees on some of our preserves. I know it isn't much to offer, but someone is going to deal with these things, probably me if cavers are not willing to help out. I really think that it is in the best interests of all cavers to work with an organization, such as ours, to voluntarily help protect and preserve the area's caves. The cave owners will see this, as well as our public education efforts, as a positive benefit of having cavers around. This will result in continued access to the caves that we all want to have. I feel this is a goal worthy of pursuing. Sincerely, Freddie. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, GalenFalgout wrote: From: GalenFalgout Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "freddie poer" , "George D. Nincehelser" Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 7:44 AM Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of t
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Probably so. This has been accomplished in several ways, including rock berms that act as a filter without impeding water flow. This method so far has shown to be effective and not too costly. You have to consider that there is not a lot of money for projects like these, so cost effectiveness comes in as a big factor. During heavy rain events though, water will overcome any diversion system and deposit unwanted material into the cave. This is where periodic conservation and clean up trips become necessary. This is a good way to help preserve the cave and get to do some great caving at the same time. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, C Tiderman wrote: From: C Tiderman Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "George D. Nincehelser" , "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 11:48 AM Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to k
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Probably so. This has been accomplished in several ways, including rock berms that act as a filter without impeding water flow. This method so far has shown to be effective and not too costly. You have to consider that there is not a lot of money for projects like these, so cost effectiveness comes in as a big factor. During heavy rain events though, water will overcome any diversion system and deposit unwanted material into the cave. This is where periodic conservation and clean up trips become necessary. This is a good way to help preserve the cave and get to do some great caving at the same time. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, C Tiderman wrote: From: C Tiderman Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "George D. Nincehelser" , "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 11:48 AM Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Probably so. This has been accomplished in several ways, including rock berms that act as a filter without impeding water flow. This method so far has shown to be effective and not too costly. You have to consider that there is not a lot of money for projects like these, so cost effectiveness comes in as a big factor. During heavy rain events though, water will overcome any diversion system and deposit unwanted material into the cave. This is where periodic conservation and clean up trips become necessary. This is a good way to help preserve the cave and get to do some great caving at the same time. --- On Fri, 9/28/12, C Tiderman wrote: From: C Tiderman Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "George D. Nincehelser" , "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 11:48 AM Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Is this something that really needs to be publicized? > From: amylouis...@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:24:05 -0500 > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED) > > I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new > reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" > wrote: > > > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > > Caveats: NONE > > > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before > > putting in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor > > location or with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time > > comes for a bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the > > cave and recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the > > past studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > Charles E. Pekins > > Wildlife Biologist > > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > > office: 254.286.5941 > > cell: 254.535.6249 > > fax: 254.288.5039 > > > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > > -Bruce Wayne > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > All, > > > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue > > that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions > > about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the > > sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would > > breakdown naturally. > > > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in > > Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of > > being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty > > exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected > > preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is > > along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone > > crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through > > the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone > > dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were > > isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave > > gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the > > sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other > > muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave > > to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > > To: C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > The en
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Is this something that really needs to be publicized? > From: amylouis...@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:24:05 -0500 > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED) > > I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new > reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" > wrote: > > > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > > Caveats: NONE > > > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before > > putting in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor > > location or with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time > > comes for a bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the > > cave and recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the > > past studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > Charles E. Pekins > > Wildlife Biologist > > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > > office: 254.286.5941 > > cell: 254.535.6249 > > fax: 254.288.5039 > > > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > > -Bruce Wayne > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > All, > > > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue > > that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions > > about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the > > sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would > > breakdown naturally. > > > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in > > Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of > > being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty > > exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected > > preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is > > along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone > > crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through > > the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone > > dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were > > isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave > > gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the > > sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other > > muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave > > to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > > To: C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > The en
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Is this something that really needs to be publicized? > From: amylouis...@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:24:05 -0500 > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED) > > I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new > reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" > wrote: > > > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > > Caveats: NONE > > > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before > > putting in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor > > location or with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time > > comes for a bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the > > cave and recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the > > past studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > Charles E. Pekins > > Wildlife Biologist > > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > > office: 254.286.5941 > > cell: 254.535.6249 > > fax: 254.288.5039 > > > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > > -Bruce Wayne > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > All, > > > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue > > that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions > > about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the > > sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would > > breakdown naturally. > > > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in > > Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of > > being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty > > exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected > > preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is > > along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone > > crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through > > the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone > > dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were > > isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave > > gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the > > sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other > > muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave > > to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > > To: C Tiderman > > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > The en
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting > in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or > with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a > bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and > recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past > studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > Cheers, > Charles > > Charles E. Pekins > Wildlife Biologist > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > office: 254.286.5941 > cell: 254.535.6249 > fax: 254.288.5039 > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > -Bruce Wayne > > > -Original Message- > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > All, > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that > I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about > the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve > habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown > naturally. > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. > At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used > by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see > them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is > sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the > lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the > bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl > over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite > remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It > got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the > low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could > still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps > those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > Respectfully, > Aimee > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > To: C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to > divert the debris. > > George > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > > >Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > >From: George D. Nincehelser > >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > >Sent: Thursday, Se
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting > in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or > with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a > bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and > recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past > studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > Cheers, > Charles > > Charles E. Pekins > Wildlife Biologist > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > office: 254.286.5941 > cell: 254.535.6249 > fax: 254.288.5039 > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > -Bruce Wayne > > > -Original Message- > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > All, > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that > I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about > the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve > habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown > naturally. > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. > At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used > by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see > them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is > sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the > lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the > bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl > over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite > remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It > got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the > low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could > still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps > those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > Respectfully, > Aimee > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > To: C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to > divert the debris. > > George > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > > >Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > >From: George D. Nincehelser > >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > >Sent: Thursday, Se
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
I talked to my friends in the film industry. They're interested in a new reality show called Cavers Behaving Badly. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "Pekins, Charles E CIV (US)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence > patterns, season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. > maternity, migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting > in a gate. Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or > with an improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a > bat gate, I would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and > recommend the best design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past > studying and protecting central Texas bat caves. > > Cheers, > Charles > > Charles E. Pekins > Wildlife Biologist > Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch > office: 254.286.5941 > cell: 254.535.6249 > fax: 254.288.5039 > > "Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons." > -Bruce Wayne > > > -Original Message- > From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM > To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > All, > > I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with > local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public > display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating > and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that > I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about > the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve > habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. > > I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of > cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has > dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger > sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large > debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very > nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be > designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown > naturally. > > About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. > At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used > by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see > them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is > sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the > lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the > bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl > over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite > remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It > got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the > low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could > still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps > those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. > > I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that > protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. > > > Respectfully, > Aimee > > > > > > > From: George D. Nincehelser > To: C Tiderman > Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s > ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to > divert the debris. > > George > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > > >Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > >From: George D. Nincehelser > >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > > >Sent: Thursday, Se
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence patterns,
season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. maternity,
migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting in a gate.
Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or with an
improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a bat gate, I
would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and recommend the best
design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past studying and protecting
central Texas bat caves.
Cheers,
Charles
Charles E. Pekins
Wildlife Biologist
Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch
office: 254.286.5941
cell: 254.535.6249
fax: 254.288.5039
"Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons."
-Bruce Wayne
-Original Message-
From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM
To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All,
I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local
cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of
exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap
some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to
comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with
trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the
cave. This is an interesting topic.
I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of
cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has
dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger
sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris
yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris
walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to
include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally.
About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks.
At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by
bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them
expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy
but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower
parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat
roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a
series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember
but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me
thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low
passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still
redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more
familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly.
I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that
protecting natural resources is of the highest priority.
Respectfully,
Aimee
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s
; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to
divert the debris.
George
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote:
Hi,
i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if
there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to
the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be
removed after a heavy rain?
Carol
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: Andy Gluesenkamp
Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start.
I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just
plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access.
Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when
it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up
trips?
If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local
resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion
one.
If there is one. I know just pu
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence patterns,
season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. maternity,
migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting in a gate.
Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or with an
improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a bat gate, I
would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and recommend the best
design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past studying and protecting
central Texas bat caves.
Cheers,
Charles
Charles E. Pekins
Wildlife Biologist
Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch
office: 254.286.5941
cell: 254.535.6249
fax: 254.288.5039
"Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons."
-Bruce Wayne
-Original Message-
From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM
To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All,
I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local
cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of
exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap
some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to
comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with
trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the
cave. This is an interesting topic.
I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of
cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has
dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger
sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris
yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris
walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to
include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally.
About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks.
At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by
bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them
expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy
but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower
parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat
roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a
series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember
but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me
thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low
passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still
redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more
familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly.
I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that
protecting natural resources is of the highest priority.
Respectfully,
Aimee
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s
; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to
divert the debris.
George
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote:
Hi,
i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if
there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to
the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be
removed after a heavy rain?
Carol
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: Andy Gluesenkamp
Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start.
I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just
plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access.
Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when
it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up
trips?
If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local
resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion
one.
If there is one. I know just pu
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Any gate at a bat cave should be approached cautiously. Bat emergence patterns,
season of use, population estimate, and type of use (e.g. maternity,
migration-only, hibernaculum) should be determined before putting in a gate.
Well intentioned "bat-friendly" gates placed in a poor location or with an
improper design can do more harm than good. If the time comes for a bat gate, I
would be happy to help determine bat use at the cave and recommend the best
design. I have worked with Crash Kennedy in the past studying and protecting
central Texas bat caves.
Cheers,
Charles
Charles E. Pekins
Wildlife Biologist
Fort Hood Natural Resources Branch
office: 254.286.5941
cell: 254.535.6249
fax: 254.288.5039
"Theatricality and deception are powerful weapons."
-Bruce Wayne
-Original Message-
From: Aimee Beveridge [mailto:aim...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:45 PM
To: George D. Nincehelser; C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp; wesley s; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All,
I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local
cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of
exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap
some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to
comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with
trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the
cave. This is an interesting topic.
I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of
cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has
dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger
sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris
yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris
walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to
include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally.
About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks.
At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by
bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them
expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy
but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower
parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat
roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a
series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember
but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me
thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low
passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still
redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more
familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly.
I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that
protecting natural resources is of the highest priority.
Respectfully,
Aimee
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: C Tiderman
Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s
; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to
divert the debris.
George
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote:
Hi,
i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if
there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to
the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be
removed after a heavy rain?
Carol
From: George D. Nincehelser
To: Andy Gluesenkamp
Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start.
I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just
plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access.
Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when
it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up
trips?
If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local
resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion
one.
If there is one. I know just pu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All, I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally. About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. Respectfully, Aimee From: George D. Nincehelser To: C Tiderman Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a >way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave >entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed >after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > > > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > >If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >the opening isn't going to work. > > >George > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > >What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the >ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >> >>Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >>to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >>> >>>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> >>>George >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Glu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All, I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally. About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. Respectfully, Aimee From: George D. Nincehelser To: C Tiderman Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a >way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave >entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed >after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > > > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > >If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >the opening isn't going to work. > > >George > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > >What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the >ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >> >>Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >>to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >>> >>>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> >>>George >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Glu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
All, I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally. About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. Respectfully, Aimee From: George D. Nincehelser To: C Tiderman Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp ; wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a >way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave >entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed >after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > > > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >To: Andy Gluesenkamp > >Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > >If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >the opening isn't going to work. > > >George > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > >What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the >ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >> >>Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >>to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >>> >>>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> >>>George >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Glu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I am sure everyone know the water that drains into Beck is from the small lake next to the cave entrance, and this has been happening for years. When the lake fills up from a heavy rain, the lake overflows directly into the entrance, and the water disappears directly below the short entrance drop into the rocks below the opening. The cave probably acts as a recharge into the water table. I am sure the posting on CaveTex will stop cavers who are going in the cave without the proper permission, and adding anything now to the cave entrance is not needed. It would be a good idea to erect a Neighborhood Watch sign inside the fenced area to let on lookers they are being watched. I suspect this will stop trespassing cold. James Jasek On Sep 28, 2012, at 12:37 PM, George D. Nincehelser wrote: The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/ trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the pa
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I am sure everyone know the water that drains into Beck is from the small lake next to the cave entrance, and this has been happening for years. When the lake fills up from a heavy rain, the lake overflows directly into the entrance, and the water disappears directly below the short entrance drop into the rocks below the opening. The cave probably acts as a recharge into the water table. I am sure the posting on CaveTex will stop cavers who are going in the cave without the proper permission, and adding anything now to the cave entrance is not needed. It would be a good idea to erect a Neighborhood Watch sign inside the fenced area to let on lookers they are being watched. I suspect this will stop trespassing cold. James Jasek On Sep 28, 2012, at 12:37 PM, George D. Nincehelser wrote: The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/ trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the pa
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I am sure everyone know the water that drains into Beck is from the small lake next to the cave entrance, and this has been happening for years. When the lake fills up from a heavy rain, the lake overflows directly into the entrance, and the water disappears directly below the short entrance drop into the rocks below the opening. The cave probably acts as a recharge into the water table. I am sure the posting on CaveTex will stop cavers who are going in the cave without the proper permission, and adding anything now to the cave entrance is not needed. It would be a good idea to erect a Neighborhood Watch sign inside the fenced area to let on lookers they are being watched. I suspect this will stop trespassing cold. James Jasek On Sep 28, 2012, at 12:37 PM, George D. Nincehelser wrote: The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/ trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the pa
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > Hi, > > i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > > Carol > > -- > *From:* George D. Nincehelser > *To:* Andy Gluesenkamp > *Cc:* wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" < > texascavers@texascavers.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > &g
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > Hi, > > i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > > Carol > > -- > *From:* George D. Nincehelser > *To:* Andy Gluesenkamp > *Cc:* wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" < > texascavers@texascavers.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > &g
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman wrote: > Hi, > > i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there > is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the > cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be > removed after a heavy rain? > > Carol > > -- > *From:* George D. Nincehelser > *To:* Andy Gluesenkamp > *Cc:* wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" < > texascavers@texascavers.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > &g
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > >Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> >>George >> >> >> >> >> >>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> >>Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>figurative) out. >>> >>>Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >>>this problem for years. >>>> >>>> >>>>Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>>>completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>>> >>>> >>>>What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>>>plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>>> >>>> >>>>George >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>>> >>>>Wow Mike, >>>>> >>>>>Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>>>>great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>>>>lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>>>>you are having and learning from them. >>>>> >>>>>Wes~ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>>>>To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>>>>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>>>> >>>>>Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>>>>agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>>>>of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>>>>cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>>>>exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>>>>attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party >>>>>cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>>>>protect the cave. >>>>> >>>>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>>>>Texas cavers are going in without permission as well.
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > >Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> >>George >> >> >> >> >> >>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> >>Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>figurative) out. >>> >>>Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >>>this problem for years. >>>> >>>> >>>>Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>>>completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>>> >>>> >>>>What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>>>plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>>> >>>> >>>>George >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>>> >>>>Wow Mike, >>>>> >>>>>Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>>>>great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>>>>lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>>>>you are having and learning from them. >>>>> >>>>>Wes~ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>>>>To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>>>>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>>>> >>>>>Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>>>>agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>>>>of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>>>>cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>>>>exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>>>>attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party >>>>>cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>>>>protect the cave. >>>>> >>>>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>>>>Texas cavers are going in without permission as well.
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Hi, i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed after a heavy rain? Carol From: George D. Nincehelser To: Andy Gluesenkamp Cc: wesley s ; "texascavers@texascavers.com" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > >Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> >>George >> >> >> >> >> >>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> >>Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>figurative) out. >>> >>>Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >>>this problem for years. >>>> >>>> >>>>Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>>>completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>>> >>>> >>>>What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>>>plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>>> >>>> >>>>George >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>>> >>>>Wow Mike, >>>>> >>>>>Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>>>>great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>>>>lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>>>>you are having and learning from them. >>>>> >>>>>Wes~ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>>>>To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>>>>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>>>> >>>>>Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>>>>agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>>>>of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>>>>cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>>>>exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>>>>attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party >>>>>cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>>>>protect the cave. >>>>> >>>>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>>>>Texas cavers are going in without permission as well.
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property > owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the > gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here > at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson > county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two > or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the > importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon > groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help > with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response > for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the > Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG > meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and > shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same > cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is > happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at > all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why > don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks > Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or > maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am > sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. >Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy >--- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser >wrote: > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" >Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM > > >The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money >spent fixing the trails. > >Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet >branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > >However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to >pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > >George > > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > > > >I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the >trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? >I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the >cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property > owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the > gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here > at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson > county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two > or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the > importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon > groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help > with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response > for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the > Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG > meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and > shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same > cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is > happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at > all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why > don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks > Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or > maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am > sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. >Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy >--- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser >wrote: > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" >Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM > > >The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money >spent fixing the trails. > >Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet >branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > >However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to >pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > >George > > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > > > >I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the >trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? >I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the >cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree" Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property > owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the > gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here > at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson > county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two > or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the > importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon > groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help > with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response > for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the > Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG > meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and > shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same > cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is > happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at > all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why > don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks > Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or > maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am > sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. >Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy >--- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser >wrote: > > >From: George D. Nincehelser >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" >Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" > >Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM > > >The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money >spent fixing the trails. > >Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet >branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > >However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to >pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > >George > > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > > > >I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the >trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? >I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the >cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy --- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser wrote: From: George D. Nincehelser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen.
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy --- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser wrote: From: George D. Nincehelser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy --- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser wrote: From: George D. Nincehelser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" Cc: "wesley s" , "texascavers@texascavers.com" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Ok. Thanks for the explay. BCI has a book that includes gates that may work in that situation. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money > spent fixing the trails. > > Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet > branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > > However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to > pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? > I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the > cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Washing out of park trails for a start. >> >> I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug >> up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. >> >> Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it >> is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? >> >> If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >> member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. >> >> If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >> the opening isn't going to work. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >> that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in >> the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >>> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >>> big storm. >>> >>> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >>> wrote: >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Ok. Thanks for the explay. BCI has a book that includes gates that may work in that situation. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money > spent fixing the trails. > > Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet > branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > > However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to > pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? > I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the > cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Washing out of park trails for a start. >> >> I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug >> up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. >> >> Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it >> is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? >> >> If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >> member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. >> >> If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >> the opening isn't going to work. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >> that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in >> the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >>> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >>> big storm. >>> >>> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >>> wrote: >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Ok. Thanks for the explay. BCI has a book that includes gates that may work in that situation. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money > spent fixing the trails. > > Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet > branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > > However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to > pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? > I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the > cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Washing out of park trails for a start. >> >> I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug >> up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. >> >> Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it >> is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? >> >> If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >> member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. >> >> If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >> the opening isn't going to work. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >> that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in >> the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >>> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >>> big storm. >>> >>> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >>> wrote: >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>> wrote: >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. >
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
How about a cube shaped gate. It would go vertical two feet then the top part would be bat friendly. Any debris would be trapped at the base and not block the top entrance part. There could also be a bottomless box type guard thing around the lock to prevent anyone from cutting the lock from the side. "Semper Exploro" Ryan MonjarasMaverick GrottoCowtown GrottoDFW GrottoUT Grotto SecretaryBexar GrottoGreater Houston GrottoTSATCMALost Oasis Preserve Manager (832)754-5778 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:19:47 -0500 From: george.nincehel...@gmail.com To: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com CC: mudmal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the a
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
How about a cube shaped gate. It would go vertical two feet then the top part would be bat friendly. Any debris would be trapped at the base and not block the top entrance part. There could also be a bottomless box type guard thing around the lock to prevent anyone from cutting the lock from the side. "Semper Exploro" Ryan MonjarasMaverick GrottoCowtown GrottoDFW GrottoUT Grotto SecretaryBexar GrottoGreater Houston GrottoTSATCMALost Oasis Preserve Manager (832)754-5778 List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:19:47 -0500 From: george.nincehel...@gmail.com To: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com CC: mudmal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
How about a cube shaped gate. It would go vertical two feet then the top part would be bat friendly. Any debris would be trapped at the base and not block the top entrance part. There could also be a bottomless box type guard thing around the lock to prevent anyone from cutting the lock from the side. "Semper Exploro" Ryan MonjarasMaverick GrottoCowtown GrottoDFW GrottoUT Grotto SecretaryBexar GrottoGreater Houston GrottoTSATCMALost Oasis Preserve Manager (832)754-5778 List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:19:47 -0500 From: george.nincehel...@gmail.com To: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com CC: mudmal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the > situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with > whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the >> fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now >> going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >> big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < >> andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >>> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ -- From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the > situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with > whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the >> fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now >> going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >> big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < >> andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >>> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ -- From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money spent fixing the trails. Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the > trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the > situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with > whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just > plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it > is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up > trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate > over the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the >> fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now >> going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is >> willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every >> big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < >> andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>> figurative) out. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >>> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ -- From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug > up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is > raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over > the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence > that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in > the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >> to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>> you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >>> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >>> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >>> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant >>> control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >>> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >>> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >>> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >>> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >>> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> >>> >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> una
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug > up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is > raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over > the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence > that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in > the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >> to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>> you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >>> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >>> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >>> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant >>> control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >>> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >>> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >>> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >>> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >>> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> >>> >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> una
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Washing out of park trails for a start. > > I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug > up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > > Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is > raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, > member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over > the opening isn't going to work. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence > that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in > the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >> to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >> >> As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >> engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >> >> George >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >> wrote: >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >> wrote: >> >>> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>> about this problem for years. >>> >>> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>> >>> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>> >>> George >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >>> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >>> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >>> you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >>> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >>> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >>> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant >>> control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >>> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >>> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >>> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >>> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >>> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> >>> >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> una
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >> about this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >>> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >>> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >>> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> -- >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >>> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >>> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >>> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >>> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >>> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >>> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >>> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >>> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >>> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >>> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >>> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >>> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the nu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >> about this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >>> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >>> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >>> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> -- >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >>> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >>> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >>> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >>> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >>> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >>> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >>> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >>> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >>> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >>> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >>> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >>> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the nu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Washing out of park trails for a start. I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over the opening isn't going to work. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the > fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now > going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is > willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every > big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < > andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >> attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >> figurative) out. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < >> george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >> about this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> >>> Wow Mike, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >>> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >>> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >>> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >>> >>> Wes~ >>> >>> -- >>> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>> >>> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> Beck Ranch Cave Update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >>> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >>> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >>> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >>> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >>> protect the cave. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >>> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >>> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >>> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >>> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >>> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>> >>> >>> >>> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >>> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >>> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >>> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >>> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >>> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >>> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >>> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>> * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >>> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >>> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >>> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >>> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the nu
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing > to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >> this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >> you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement >> with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few >> caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave >> entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit >> the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt >> to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The >> fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the >> cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have >> made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control >> and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> >> >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized >> visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior >> to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to >> observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering >> the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring >> should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been >> notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested >> and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. >> Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, >> short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas >> Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, >> Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing > to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >> this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >> you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement >> with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few >> caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave >> entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit >> the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt >> to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The >> fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the >> cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have >> made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control >> and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> >> >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized >> visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior >> to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to >> observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering >> the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring >> should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been >> notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested >> and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. >> Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, >> short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas >> Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, >> Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing > to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. > > As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an > engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > George > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp > wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" > wrote: > >> My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >> this problem for years. >> >> Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >> completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >> >> What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >> plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >> >> George >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >> great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a >> lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties >> you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement >> with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few >> caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave >> entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit >> the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt >> to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The >> fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the >> cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >> cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >> cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have >> made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >> activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control >> and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >> Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >> interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >> send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place >> you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> >> >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized >> visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior >> to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to >> observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering >> the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring >> should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been >> notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested >> and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. >> Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, >> short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas >> Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, >> Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> -- >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >> protect the cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> * >> >> * * >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers >> arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are >> detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include >> cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the >> cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything >> possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at >> the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. >> Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> -- >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >> protect the cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> * >> >> * * >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers >> arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are >> detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include >> cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the >> cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything >> possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at >> the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. >> Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp < andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an > attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and > figurative) out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" < > george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought > about this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > >> Wow Mike, >> >> Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >> a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of >> a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >> difficulties you are having and learning from them. >> >> Wes~ >> >> -- >> From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >> >> Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> Beck Ranch Cave Update >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >> agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >> of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The >> cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and >> exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to >> attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. >> The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could >> protect the cave. >> >> >> >> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >> Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and >> the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >> trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the >> authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in >> the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, >> have made it difficult to keep cave open. >> >> >> >> *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave >> management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire >> ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas >> Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration >> visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you >> are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management >> activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We >> will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >> * >> >> * * >> >> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >> cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >> unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >> cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is >> in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe >> people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, >> electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers >> arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are >> detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include >> cavers. >> >> >> >> We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the >> cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything >> possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at >> the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. >> Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >> >> >> >> 512-249-2283 >> >> >> >> mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >> >> >> > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about > this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement > with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few > caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance > was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. > A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control > access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us > to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas > cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the > cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the > parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made > it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management > activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control > and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave > Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. > The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are > interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send > us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on > the list and contact you prior to our work project. > > > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers > that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized > visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior > to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe > the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave > and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should > greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified > that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged > with trespassing. This will include cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. > Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short > of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s > Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You > for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about > this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement > with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few > caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance > was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. > A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control > access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us > to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas > cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the > cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the > parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made > it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management > activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control > and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave > Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. > The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are > interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send > us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on > the list and contact you prior to our work project. > > > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers > that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized > visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior > to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe > the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave > and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should > greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified > that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged > with trespassing. This will include cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. > Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short > of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s > Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You > for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an attractive nuisance.Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and figurative) out. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" wrote: > My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about > this problem for years. > > Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes > completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep > plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > George > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement > with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few > caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance > was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. > A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control > access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us > to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas > cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the > cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the > parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made > it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management > activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control > and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave > Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. > The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are > interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send > us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on > the list and contact you prior to our work project. > > > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers > that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized > visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior > to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe > the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave > and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should > greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified > that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged > with trespassing. This will include cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. > Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short > of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s > Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You > for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave > management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire > ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas > Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration > visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you > are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management > activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We > will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. > * > > * * > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas > cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when > unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the > cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is > in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe > people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, > electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers > arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are > detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include > cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the > cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything > possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at > the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. > Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave > management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire > ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas > Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration > visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you > are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management > activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We > will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. > * > > * * > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas > cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when > unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the > cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is > in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe > people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, > electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers > arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are > detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include > cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the > cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything > possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at > the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. > Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > >
Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about this problem for years. Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? George On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s wrote: > Wow Mike, > > Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a > great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a > lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties > you are having and learning from them. > > Wes~ > > -- > From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > > Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > > In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management > agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one > of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The > cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and > exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to > attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. > The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could > protect the cave. > > > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. > Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and > the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for > trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the > authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in > the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, > have made it difficult to keep cave open. > > > > *As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave > management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire > ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas > Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration > visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you > are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management > activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We > will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. > * > > * * > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas > cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when > unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the > cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is > in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe > people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, > electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers > arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are > detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include > cavers. > > > > We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the > cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything > possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at > the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. > Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > > > > > Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > > > > 512-249-2283 > > > > mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > >
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Wow Mike, Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are having and learning from them. Wes~ From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Thanks for the update, Mike, and all you and the TCC do for Texas caves! It's a real shame when trespassers and cavers (who definitely should know better) flaunt the rules and policies governing access. I'd like to see a list of caves that we have lost access to, due to unauthorized access by cavers (whom once again, should have known better). River Styx and some after hours unauthorized trips in Carlsbad come to mind. Must be several more that slip my feeble memory. Sigh, Mark From: Mike Walsh [mailto:mikewaus...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:25 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver's Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Thanks for the update, Mike, and all you and the TCC do for Texas caves! It's a real shame when trespassers and cavers (who definitely should know better) flaunt the rules and policies governing access. I'd like to see a list of caves that we have lost access to, due to unauthorized access by cavers (whom once again, should have known better). River Styx and some after hours unauthorized trips in Carlsbad come to mind. Must be several more that slip my feeble memory. Sigh, Mark From: Mike Walsh [mailto:mikewaus...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:25 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver's Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
RE: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update
Thanks for the update, Mike, and all you and the TCC do for Texas caves! It's a real shame when trespassers and cavers (who definitely should know better) flaunt the rules and policies governing access. I'd like to see a list of caves that we have lost access to, due to unauthorized access by cavers (whom once again, should have known better). River Styx and some after hours unauthorized trips in Carlsbad come to mind. Must be several more that slip my feeble memory. Sigh, Mark From: Mike Walsh [mailto:mikewaus...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:25 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update Beck Ranch Cave Update In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.comWe will place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. This will include cavers. We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver's Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy 512-249-2283 mikewaus...@austin.rr.com
