Re: [Therion] Compass (.dat) to Therion (.th) converter?

[Footleg via Therion]

You might also find the Cave Converter tool I wrote of some use. It doesn't
convert to Therion, but it can read Compass.dat and convert to Survex. The
survex files are not too difficult to then convert into Therion in a text
editor:
http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/

Footleg

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:18, Marco Menchise via Therion 
wrote:

> Wow, I didn't know about that page, thanks...
>
> Maybe I missed it because I googled in English and Marco wrote it in
> Italian (quite unusual for him :-) )
>
> Thanks,
> Marco
>
>
> Il giorno lun 7 gen 2019 alle ore 12:09 Tom via Therion 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> in handling compass data I use the procedures described in this wiki
>> page, written by Marco Corvi, which unfortunately I have found it only in
>> italian language.
>> In it is linked also a very nice perl script to convert dat files in
>> therion.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Il giorno lun 7 gen 2019, 12:02 Torsten Schnitter via Therion <
>> therion@speleo.sk> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Hi Marco
>>>
>>> I have an excel macro tool which I use for such tasks.
>>>
>>> I have done this for my own and I'm using this Excel tool as my
>>> "database" for survey data.
>>> You can import different formats like compass, walls, therion, mnemo,
>>> pockettopo into Excel.
>>> And you can export to formats for Therion, Walls and Compass.
>>> This tool is still under progress but may be a help for your task.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately you can use it only with Windows and Excel.
>>> Let me know if you are interested.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Torsten
>>>
>>> Marco Menchise via Therion  hat am 7. Januar 2019 um
>>> 11:35 geschrieben:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> does anybody know if such a converter is available?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marco
>>>
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Re: [Therion] SDs for distoX surveys

[Footleg via Therion]

In my own experience, the most common blunder which the 'measure 3 times'
method with DistoX2 catches is mis-read distance. The Disto tends to be
used in the same orientation for all 3 shots, so the compass and clino tend
to be well aligned in all 3 (regardless of how well calibrated the DistoX
is, or is there are local magnetic fields throwing the compass). But the
laser does sometimes miss the target and overshoot, resulting in one of the
3 shots being out of tolerance for PocketTopo to count them as a valid leg.
Of course catching blunders so they never make it into the data (we would
reshoot when it happens) is not the same as the SD in the measured data.

The way we catch bad calibration problems or local magnetic interference is
to take backshots (3 of them). This has saved serious errors on multiple
occasions which would not have been detected taking shots in one direction
alone.

Footleg
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Re: [Therion] Wrong average calculation from compass/backcompass data

[Footleg via Therion]

The correct way to average bearings is to the treat them as vectors, then
average the x and y components separately before converting the resulting
vector back to a bearing. It is likely this is what the trig functions
mentioned in this thread are doing.

Footleg
On Fri, 18 May 2018 at 12:57, Bruce Mutton via Therion 
wrote:

> I agree to some extent with both sentiments below, however the software
> should not abort just because of backsight discrepancies.
>
> What about adding one more line to the Therion and or Survex log file;
> either
>
> “There are no backsights in the centreline”, or
>
> “Maximum backsight discrepancy is xx [degrees|grads]”, as approprite
>
> That way the user can be fully informed and make their own decision about
> whether to investigate further if the information is not what they expect.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> 17. 5. 2018 v 9:25, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion :
>
>
>
> In this case is not a problem with my formula, is a serious magnetic
> anomaly (100 degrees difference)  and the program should to stop and to
> send a warning.
>
>
>
> Evaristo,
>
>
>
> Therion is a program to interprete your data, not to solve problems with
> your data.
>
>
>
> It is your responsibility what the data you import into Therion.
>
>
>
> Martin S.
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Re: [Therion] How to combine two maps

[Footleg via Therion]

Hi Bill,

I generally put just one .th file in my thconfig file, and that .th file
represents all the caves I want to process with that config. My master .th
file then includes the different .th files for different caves, and also
contains the equates to link them together (where they are joined by survey
data).

Footleg

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:27 PM Bill Gee via Therion 
wrote:

> Hello everyone -
>
>
>
> Well, that turned out to be easy! I was fearing a huge conglomerated mess
> of entries in a thconfig and *.th file. It turned out to be some relatively
> simple mods to thconfig.
>
>
>
> As noted by several people - I put each cave survey in its own directory.
> Each directory contains a master .th file and a thconfig file. For bigger
> projects I create a subdirectory for each survey trip which contains the
> centerline data and all scanned sketches from that trip. It also contains
> the .th2 files.
>
>
>
> One of the centerline data files (usually the first one) contains the GPS
> coordinates of the cave and also specifies the entrance station.
>
>
>
> To create the combined map, I created a new survey directory. It contains
> only a thconfig file. The thconfig file names the three cave surveys like
> this:
>
>
>
> # Name the three input caves
>
> source ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th
>
> source ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th
>
> source ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th
>
>
>
> The layout sections are exactly the same as in the thconfig files for each
> cave. The TeX code that I have for changing the size of the legend is also
> identical, as is the MetaPost code for drawing my custom symbols.
>
>
>
> At the bottom of the thconfig file I listed the exports. The only thing I
> changed was the export file names. Everything else is the same as in the
> thconfig files for each cave.
>
>
>
> # The main plan map
>
> export map -proj plan -layout mainmapnocolor -o CaveRanch.pdf
>
>
>
> # The main map for printing
>
> export map -proj plan -layout mainmapprint -o CaveRanchPrint.pdf
>
> (continue for kml, lox and 3d files)
>
>
>
> When I ran therion with this thconfig file, it Just Worked! The first
> time! I was astounded. The output files contain all three cave maps and
> they are properly located relative to each other. WooHoo! That was easy!
>
>
>
> The next adventure will happen when the link between two of the caves is
> finally surveyed. The use of an "equate" statement has been mentioned. That
> needs to go in a .th file - right? Which means, in the end, there will be
> four .th files mentioned in the thconfig. Is that right?
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
>
> --
>
> Bill Gee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:57:27 PM CST Bruce Mutton via Therion
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill
>
> >
>
> > I think you have the answers you need already, but I’ll add my two bits
>
> > anyway.
>
> >
>
> > I do almost the same as Ladislav.
>
> >
>
> > Sounds like your caves are or should be part of one Therion project
> (simply
>
> > because they are in the same general locality). No need to change
> anything
>
> > other than to make sure all of the existing cave folders are collected
>
> > together in a single project folder (as in the image below).
>
> >
>
> > In the example below, my project folder is th_TakakaValley/trunk (the
>
> > /trunk is just an artefact of the version control system we use) and
> there
>
> > are 7 caves.
>
> >
>
> > The other folders are for outputs and standardised layout files.
>
> >
>
> > I use a flat structure these days, ie each individual cave has its own
>
> > folder, with INDEX*.th and thconfig files, which is entirely
> self-contained
>
> > (except for the output and standard files folders) so an individual cave
>
> > can be easily moved to any other folder location and still compile with
>
> > little fuss.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Below, the INDEXTakakaValley.thc ties together all of the caves in the
>
> > project, and puts them on the same map. If two or more of the caves were
>
> > joined, then I would just create another INDEX file in the top level
>
> > project folder, eg INDEXBaigentsBreweryCaves.thc, and possibly matching
>
> > thconfg and layout files.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you download the latest development version of Therion, you can use a
>
> > lookup to specify particular colours for each of the caves, as described
>
> >
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/examples?s[]=lookup#colour_scales_-_lookups
>
> > <
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/examples?s%5b%5d=lookup#colour_scales_-_loo
>
> > kups> (half way down the page).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Bruce
>
>
>
>
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[Therion] Fwd: Aven in stereoscopic 3D

[Footleg via Therion]

Apologies for cross posting, but I think this is of general interest to
Therion users too. I had not heard of this route to view 3D cave models in
a stereoscopic viewer before. If Loch could export models in a standard 3D
model format including the landscape overlays it would open up 3D viewing
options. E.g. A side-by-side image pair video signal can be viewed in full
colour 3D on many 3D TV sets and projectors. Loch does not provide a side
by side option currently. If it could export models to a format another
viewer can show then it gives a quick route to display models in this sort
of way.

Footleg

-- Forwarded message -
From: Jarvist Moore Frost
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 00:07
Subject: Re: Aven in stereoscopic 3D
To: Pedro Silva Pinto
Cc: sur...@survex.com 


Perhaps easiest is to extract the data & use with a more mainstream viewer.

I had a lot of luck with Pymol (designed for biological molecules /
molecular dynamics), and Thomas Holder's python library for directly
importing .3d data:
https://github.com/jarvist/migovecsurveydata/tree/master/scripts/pymol

Example video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s68V9EsRvmE

Pymol is open source, but a lot of the web links direct you to the pay
version.

Pymol supports all kinds of weird and wonderful 3D outputs, including
shutter glasses. Mainly I've just used the 'cross eyed' stereo and anaglyph
(coloured 3D specs).

Back in ~2011 I wrote a C program that linked to Survex and exported the
.3d file to a '.CGO' set of graphics primitives. This was a bit more
clunky, but also worked fine.

Best,

Jarv

On 30 January 2018 at 20:50, Pedro Silva Pinto
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there any way I could take advantage of the OpenGL 3D capabilities of
my
> Nvidia Quadro graphics card and see my surveys in Aven in Stereoscopic 3D?
>
> Regards
>
> Pedro
>
>
> --
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Re: [Therion] Joining scraps and PDF layouts

[Footleg via Therion]

More of a problem at scrap joins where both scraps have water area fills
adjoining is that the hash lines indicating the fill type do not align. I
work around this by drawing the entire water fill area on just one of the
scraps so that it overlaps on top of the adjoining scrap (they must be in
the same 'block' of the map; without a 'break' between them). Turn 'clip
off' for the area fill so it extends outside the scrap border, overlapping
the other scrap and appears as one area fill on the PDF. I often use this
deliberately to hide colour differences at scrap joins where I am colouring
my scrap backgrounds by altitude. The water area fill is always blue in my
layout so it hides the contrast between adjoining scrap colours (circled in
red in attached graphic).

Footleg
[image: ScrapJoinHiddenByWater.png]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 8:22 PM Martin Sluka via Therion 
wrote:

> There is one possibility to play with invisible walls and define borders
> of scraps not as straight lines but as puzzle.
>
> In such case one scrap may include all water area.
>
> The problem is with contact of scraps, but if both scraps are on the same
> background image you may copy line from one scrap to another with  plain
> text editor. Coordinates are the same.
>
> m.s.
>
>
>
> 14. 8. 2017 v 19:45, Torsten Schnitter via Therion :
>
>
> Hi
> As I was told by a grafic designer problem 1 is just visible on the
> screen/monitor.
> When printing to a plotter there are no white lines anymore.
> I do have the same problem on the screen. But when plotting there are
> really no white lines anymore.
> Cheers,
> Torsten
>
> Am 14.08.2017 um 19:04 schrieb Henry Bennett via Therion <
> therion@speleo.sk>:
>
> Problem 2 can be addressed by working with some custom Tex.
>
> Take a look at this
> https://github.com/speleo/SpeleoPhilippines/blob/master/CodeLibrary/_layouts.tex
>
> You’ll then need to inject the code into your thconfig file using the
> “input” command.
>
>
> https://github.com/speleo/SpeleoPhilippines/blob/master/Region-2/Baggao/thconfig-BlueWater-System
>
> or you could just cut and paste it in.
>
> Hope this helps.  Should at least get you in the right direction.
>
> Problem 1 has been discussed before and I agree, it is a pain.
>
> Henry
>
>
> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk
> ] *On Behalf Of *Steven Tucker via Therion
> *Sent:* 14 August 2017 17:29
> *To:* therion@speleo.sk
> *Cc:* Steven Tucker 
> *Subject:* [Therion] Joining scraps and PDF layouts
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am busy completing a survey of a cave and I am running into two problems
> with the final PDF
> First problem.
> There are water areas that cross over two scraps and the water is coloured
> blue. In the PDF file, the line where the two scraps join show a thin white
> line. The kml and loch files don't show any split between the joint scraps.
>
>
> Any idea how to fix this?
> Second problem.
>
> I would like to display the cave name, scalebar etc in one area of the PDF
> and have my legend in a seperate area of the PDF, but I can't figure out
> how to do this.
>
> Any help will be much appreciated!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Steven
>
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Re: [Therion] mud!

[Footleg via Therion]

I designed a UK symbol set for just this purpose. You can pull a copy from
the British Caving Association registry where I (and many other UK cavers)
publish and share our data. See the gb_layout.thc file in the Wookey
Catchment repo:

http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/WookeyCatchment/

My project in that catchment is Swildons. So if you want to see how I
include it in a Therion project just download the data set and process the
thconfig-swildons_ent Therion project file in the Swildons folder.

Footleg

On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 11:36 PM Wookey via Therion 
wrote:

> On 2017-08-14 11:51 -0700, Rob Countess via Therion wrote:
>
> > It would seem like a break in tradition to use a different symbol for
> mud. I've
> > been surveying caves for 20 years with this symbol. As far as I
> understood, we
> > were using British mapping symbols because of the large number of British
> > cavers like Mike Boon and Tich Morris, and others who came over because
> of
> > Derek Ford at McMaster University. I used to have a huge list of symbols
> with
> > this mud symbol included, I can't find anything to back this up several
> pages
> > deep on google. You will notice that the UIS calcite symbol is exactly
> the mud
> > symbol in Canada whereas our calcite symbol is connected scallops. Not
> sure if
> > this is based of some now defunct british symbols set.
>
> You don't have to draw your caves with the UIS sysmbol set. You can
> choose a different symbol-set if you prefer. As you say, the lack of a
> 'mud' sysmbol is a bit difficult for cavers of a UK mindset, but the
> UIS logic in just defining sediments by particle size does make some
> sense.
>
> Therion is quite happy for you to specify any sysmbol set you like, or
> to add a few extra sysmbols. (Most UK surveyors can't really get by
> without the 'slope arrow' symbol for example)
>
> Wookey
> --
> Principal hats:  Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM
> http://wookware.org/
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[Therion] Line Colours in Map Editor with 5.4.1

[Footleg via Therion]

Having finally got around to updating my install to 5.4.1 I was trying to
work out how the line colours had appeared in the official builds (I'm on
Windows). I see the ini file entries in both xtherion.ini and
xtherion.new.ini, all commented out in both files. So I am assuming the
colours are set by some hard coded defaults unless over ridden in the ini
file?

Why are there two ini files? Are they both used by the application?

When this feature was first provided (via the email list) for testing, I
commented that some of the default colours were not ideal from my
experience. In particular the use of 'brown' for unselected walls in the
active scrap is not so easy to tell from the red selected item. As users
are already accustomed to the blue wall lines in the active scrap, I
changed this one to blue.

Rock borders look the same colour as survey legs and splays in background
sketches brought in from PocketTopo, so I changed these to purple. So the
only two changes I have to add into my ini file are:

set xth(gui,me,wallcolor) blue
set xth(gui,me,rockcolor) purple

The blue walls work well with the blue controlfill because the control
points only appear on selected lines, where the line is turned red. So this
is not confused with blue wall lines which are not selected.

I would like to propose these colours be made the defaults as I think it
makes the editor easier to use, and I would like to reflect the default
colours in the screenshots in my tutorial documents when I update them to
reflect the latest release.

Footleg
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Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs

[Footleg via Therion]

I have yet to meet a Therion user who knows another Therion user who they
share a computer with. So I would be happy with install for Current user
only.

Footleg

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:15 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old
> installer too.
> But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that
> go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If
> it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user
> problem.
>
> Vlad
>
> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>
> wrote:
>
>> Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a
>> location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to
>> install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write
>> permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on
>> each page to accept the default install under Program Files.
>>
>> Footleg
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion <
>> therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
>>
>>> It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
>>>
>>>- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there
>>>are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows
>>>versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever.
>>>- No 2 is OK by me.
>>>
>>> I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version.  The installer is
>>> compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10
>>> years.  I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make
>>> Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *
>>>  via Therion
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
>>>
>>> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georg...@gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer
>>> incomplete installs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the installer problems...
>>>
>>> Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind:
>>> 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an
>>> existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the
>>> same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not
>>> prevent all possible problems though.
>>>
>>> 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the
>>> "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older
>>> installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
>>>
>>> In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which
>>> is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in
>>> a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file
>>> extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from
>>> the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current
>>> folder.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
>>>
>>> Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
>>>
>>> Vladimir
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>>
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>>
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Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs

[Footleg via Therion]

Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a
location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to
install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write
permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on
each page to accept the default install under Program Files.

Footleg

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion 
wrote:

> It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
>
>- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are
>bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions,
>any of which might break something that tries to be too clever.
>- No 2 is OK by me.
>
> I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version.  The installer is
> compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10
> years.  I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make
> Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *
>  via Therion
> *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
>
>
> *To:* List for Therion users 
>
> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев 
> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer
> incomplete installs
>
>
>
> About the installer problems...
>
> Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind:
> 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an
> existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the
> same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not
> prevent all possible problems though.
>
> 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the
> "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older
> installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
>
> In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which
> is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in
> a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file
> extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from
> the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current
> folder.
>
> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
>
> Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
>
> Vladimir
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Re: [Therion] Therion Theory - scrap and map definitions

[Footleg via Therion]

Hi Bruce,

An interesting read. I think the test of any model is how well it handles
the exceptions. In the case of my own projects (where I use my recommended
structure of course) I have cases where I have to draw up a section of cave
which spans more than one trip in one drawing (typically difficult
junctions where approach passages were surveyed on different trips). So
here I have to add a .th2 file at a higher level than the trip and have to
draw the scrap referencing the station names with more than just the
number. The tip to specify the namespace in the scrap header is how I
handle this where I can keep each scrap to an area belonging to a single
trip (I still might want to draw multiple scraps in the same map editor
file, hence the need to place the .th2 file outside the trip). But in some
cases to get things to output how I want, there is no way to avoid having
stations from multiple trips in the same scrap. So here each station name
needs to include the namespace. So in reality the model I recommend only
works in idea cases, and needs to be merged with parts of some of your
other models to deal with these exceptions. The key thing I try to avoid as
far as possible is having to add namespaces to each station (as it means
you can no longer just click on the stations in a sketch imported from
PocketTopo and have the station numbers set automatically). I usually end
up clicking on all the station points to give them automatically assigned
numbers, and then add the namespace using search and replace in a plain
text editor.

It would be good to add an analysis of the pros and cons of each structure
to your document, covering how they handle the imperfect structure of real
world data.

Footleg

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 12:38 PM Vasily Vl. Suhachev via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> Hello Bruce and All
>
> I had to draw a few large caves and I want to share my experience:
>
> 1) I always keep scanned survey notebooks. This is an artifact obtained in
> a cave and is the source of truth.
>
> 2) I store the entire centerline in a separate directory with a split into
> files on a trip basis. I think this is more correct because the centerline
> is a direct reflection of the survey notebooks. In the case of an error,
> this allows you to quickly navigate to notebooks. Entire cave centerline
> assembled in index file inside centerline directory.
>
> 3) I do not tie maps tightly to survey trips because it's usually more
> convenient to draw a map that covers a cave part (passage, grotto) rather
> than surveying trip.
>
> I call such dedicated part of the cave as `subsystem`. Subsystem maps are
> stored in separate subsystem directories. In each directory there are files
> `thconfig`, * .th2 and a file `maps.th` in which the definition of maps
> and joins is stored.
>
> I store the definition of maps of the entire cave in the top directory in
> the `maps.th` file in which I connect the` maps.th` files from the
> subsystems' directories. I do not use therion namespaces for maps because
> the number of maps are much smaller than the surveys. Uniqueness of names
> of maps I support manually.
>
> Folder structure example:
> cave
> +-- survey# scanned notebooks
> +-- trip1
> +-- 1.jpg
> +-- 2.jpg
> +-- 3.jpg
> +-- trip2
> +-- trip3
> +-- trip4
> +-- cl# centerline
> +-- cave.th   # index file with equates
> +-- trip1.th
> +-- trip2.th
> +-- trip3.th
> +-- trip4.th
> +-- model
> +-- thconfig
> +-- map
> +-- p # plan
> +-- subsystem1
> +-- 1.th2
> +-- 2.th2
> +-- maps.th
> +-- thconfig
> +-- subsystem2
> +-- 3.th2
> +-- maps.th
> +-- thconfig
> +-- maps.th
> +-- thconfig
> +-- rr # extended elevation
> +-- r240   # elevation at 240
>
>
> 06.07.2017 03:08, Bruce Mutton via Therion пишет:
>
> A little while ago I explored the effects of different ways of relating
> scraps and maps to surveys, and to the files that contain them.
>
> I came up with the attached text, which I might get around to turning into
> a wiki page sometime.  There are links to some examples already available
> via the wiki.
>
>
>
> Before I wiki-ise it, I’d like some feedback, or criticism, as
> appropriate!  Is it helpful? (I think so)
>
>
>
> Footleg, I plagiarised your page, just a little.
>
> Also, if Danilo Magnani or Will Urbanski are still listening, or if
> someone knows how to contact them, I’d like permission to put on the wiki
> the project samples they posted to this forum some years ago. Those are
> named Complesso - Buc di V,  and DDC – Radio Collar Cave.
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> 

Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels

[Footleg via Therion]

An alternative to setting smaller text size codes to 0 (to hide xs labels)
is to put the labels in a different scrap to the drawing. I have done this
with some success where I wanted more detailed text in large scale maps. I
still draw it all in the editor on one th2 file, but just move the labels
into a separate scrap. Then I can decide when I define my maps which ones
to include the labels in. This works well where some maps use offsets too,
as I can include labels in the white space per map depending on where the
white space on the survey appears based on different use of offsets on each
map.

Footleg

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:04 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> There is also a "min-symbol-scale" option in layout, which hides smaller
> symbols. It might work similar to what you are doing in the font_setup
> metapost.
> You can hide the smallest items, not the largest ones, but hiding the
> larger ones is not that useful anyway.
>
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Henry.Bennett--- via Therion <
> therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vladimir,
>>
>>
>>
>> “-scale” sounds interesting.  One of the things I like about s,m,l,xl,
>> etc was the ability in metapost to set xs to zero (0).
>>
>>
>>
>> Consider a system where you have a full size survey of a single cave.  I
>> can draw that cave with full detail using xs set to a x font size. When
>> that cave intercepts the cave master I can simply draw the system by
>> suppressing some of the detail by using
>>
>>
>>
>>   code metapost
>>
>> #change the size of the default fonts
>>
>>
>> #fonts_setup();
>>
>> fonts_setup(0,18,40,64,80);
>>
>>   endcode
>>
>>
>>
>> I will take a look at –scale and see how that works in such a case.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Henry Bennett*
>>
>> Solutions Consultant
>>
>> *Dell* *EMC* | Public Sector
>>
>> henry.benn...@dell.com  +44 7717 157 193 <+44%207717%20157193>
>>
>> http://uk.linkedin.com/in/bennetthenry/
>>
>> Planned absence: *19-23 June*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *
>>  via Therion
>> *Sent:* 15 May 2017 16:34
>> *To:* Bennett, Henry 
>> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев ; TherionList <
>> therion@speleo.sk>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels
>>
>>
>>
>> Henry
>>
>> After a talk with Stacho, he thought that it would be better not to
>> increase the list of sizes. They are restrictive, in a sense that you have
>> a limited set and can not use anything larger or smaller or in-between
>> sizes.
>>
>> There was a "scale" option that already existed, but was not enabled, so
>> he enabled it.
>>
>> For point and line items you can use this option:
>>
>> "-scale ", where  is the scale factor. The normal size
>> corresponds to 1.0, but you can use any value >0.
>>
>> Vladimir
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 3:48 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,  I see that more text size options didn’t make it into the 5.4.1
>> release.
>>
>>
>>
>> Would be great to see it in a future release.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Henry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *
>>  via Therion
>> *Sent:* 13 December 2016 15:13
>> *To:* List for Therion users 
>> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев 
>> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels
>>
>>
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>> I can't confirm or test the issue, but if the -xl size is too small, you
>> can check out the beta version here
>> https://github.com/vldgeorgiev/therion/wiki
>>
>> A few weeks ago I added three more large symbol sizes. E.g. 2XL, 3XL and
>> 4XL. They might work in your case.
>>
>>
>> If I have time next week I will see about the frame size and why it is
>> drawn smaller.
>>
>> Vladimir
>>
>>
>>
>> Dell Corporation Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company
>> Registration Number: 2081369
>> Registered address: Dell House, The Boulevard, Cain Road, Bracknell,
>> Berkshire, RG12 1LF, UK.
>> Company details for other Dell UK entities can be found on
>> www.dell.co.uk.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dell Corporation Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company
>> Registration Number: 2081369
>> Registered address: Dell House, The Boulevard, Cain Road, Bracknell,
>> Berkshire, RG12 1LF, UK.
>> Company details for other Dell UK entities can be found on
>> www.dell.co.uk.
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Therion] Loch giving strange artifacts

[Footleg via Therion]

Possibly your walls are inside out. Do the walls appear and vanish as you
rotate the model? That is a sure sign some of your scrap boundaries are not
right. Common causes are the insides of loops not flagged as outline in, or
walls which cross other walls.

Footleg

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM Benedikt Hallinger via Therion <
therion@speleo.sk> wrote:

> Hello,
> in my loch model i get some strange artefacts.
>
> It seems that the further-away objects are rendered in front of the
> nearer-in-front objects.
> I would expect that the passages far away would be covered by those in the
> front of the camera (as is the case where i did not yet have scraps and
> only
> the centerline is present... look at the screenshot)
>
> What am i doing wrong?___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
>
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Re: [Therion] Projected Elevation Reprojection

[Footleg via Therion]

Thank you Bruce and Martin for the replies and links to further reading.
These were really helpful.

Martin, I am not sure what -flip right, left in centreline is about. I
cannot find any reference to using flip in centrelines in the Therion book.
But the -flip horizontal scrap option which both of you pointed me to did
the trick.

In summary, I draw my scrap using the extended elevation sketch from
PocketTopo (which was for a passage heading downslope almost due West). I
set that scrap type to 'elevation [000]' which represents a 'West to East'
slice through the cave model, but also add the '-flip horizontal' into the
scrap options. This turns my scrap which was drawn using a sketch
representing more or less along the elevation [180] view into a scrap
projected onto elevation [000] with minimal distortion. The Rendering looks
good.

So this is a nice easy technique for easy linear passages along the same
approximate bearing as the elevation view you want to present, and allows
you to directly use the extended elevation sketch from PocketTopo as the
background (so you get the features like auto numbering of survey stations
in the sketch editor).

For passages not conveniently all aligned with the plane of the elevation
slice I will have to distort the drawings in the X dimension only to match
the approximate station spacing in the projection, then load these as PNG
background sketches and place the stations by hand. I'll report back on how
I get on.

Footleg
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Re: [Therion] xtherion: "Edit line" contextual menu for line points doesn't work

[Footleg via Therion]

Same as Bruce (but on Windows 7). Edit line context menu items work for me
(e.g. Convert to Curve when clicking on a line makes all the nodes smooth
curves).

Footleg

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:22 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion 
wrote:

> I cannot duplicate this problem.
>
> At least Insert, Delete and Split line work just fine from the right-click
> context menu.
>
> Using 5.3.16 Vlad’s version.
>
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Rodrigo
> Severo via Therion
> *Sent:* Friday, 24 February 2017 3:27 PM
> *To:* List for Therion users 
> *Cc:* Rodrigo Severo 
> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] xtherion: "Edit line" contextual menu for line
> points doesn't work
>
>
>
> 2017-02-23 22:56 GMT-03:00 Bill Gee via Therion :
>
> I am unable to duplicate this problem. Therion version 5.3.16 compiled
> from source, running on 64-bit Fedora 25.
>
>
>
> Just to understand, all options of the "Edit line" contextual menu for a
> line point worked just the same as if you called these same options from
> the button menu on the right panel?
>
>- Insert point
>- Delete point
>- Split line
>- Trace line
>- Convert to curve
>- Simplify
>
> Is that it?
>
>
>
> Rodrigo
>
>
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Re: [Therion] Stations coordinates

[Footleg via Therion]

For converting Compass survey data files into metric, you can use my Cave
Converter program.

http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/

You can read Compass data into the program, and export it as Survex format.
>From this it is straight forward to copy and paste the data sections into
Therion files. I am working on adding direct Therion export (and import)
next.

Footleg

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:50 PM Martin Sluka via Therion 
wrote:

> Anyway, you may use Survex and .3d file exported from Therion:
>
> 3dtopos - name of utulity
>
> 3dtopos — produce a .pos file from a .3d file
>
> Synopsis
>
> 3dtopos [options] {.3d file} [.pos file]
>
> Description
>
> 3dtopos takes a .3d file and produces a .pos file which contains a list of
> all the stations with coordinates (ordered x,y,z [East, North, Up]) and
> complete names.
>
> The stations are sorted such that numbers occur in the correct order (so
> “2” before “10”). 3dtopos even sorts numbers with a prefix and/or suffix,
> so you’d get:
>
>  040.sv8
>  040.sv8a
>  040.sv8b
>  040.sv8c
>  040.sv9
>  040.sv10
>  040.sv11
>  40_entrance_tag
>  40b_entrance_tag
>
> Survex 1.2.30 Manual
>
> 11
>
> You can also export .pos files from aven in versions 1.2.19 and later.
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