date:20170509

I think someone would have to write a plugin to make that possible.

Something very close to that can happen with the tiddlyclip plugin using 
the screenshot feature. If you narrow your screen to just the parts that 
you want, only that bit shows up in the resulting screenshot. The URL of 
the site along with a screenshot is created. The image is embedded, but you 
could eventually externalize it.

HTH
Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:03:02 PM UTC-7, TJ Walker wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear thoughts from folks on how the following might or might 
> not be a good feature of TW. Thanks.
>
> I'm thinking of how sharing a Spotify/SoundCloud link in Slack results in 
> an embed player right there and how pasting a link to just about any page 
> into Google Keep results in a little card with a thumbnail, title, and 
> excerpt being rendered at the bottom of the note.
>
>
> 
>  
> 
>

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[tw] Re: Can I have a word counter for the words in the entire TW?

2017-05-09 Thread j3d1H


Erm.. I can't find any that have nothing to do with tags. To be more 
specific, it can't include any tag filtering. I need to have every tiddler, 
no matter what, word counted. I'm terribly
sorry if I'm just wasting everyone's time by asking this.

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[tw] [TW5] Render/Embed Rich Content Summeries for External Links

2017-05-09 Thread TJ Walker



I'd like to hear thoughts from folks on how the following might or might 
not be a good feature of TW. Thanks.

I'm thinking of how sharing a Spotify/SoundCloud link in Slack results in 
an embed player right there and how pasting a link to just about any page 
into Google Keep results in a little card with a thumbnail, title, and 
excerpt being rendered at the bottom of the note.


 


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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Got a chance to do a bit more on the epub > html > tiddlywiki workflow.  

See http://american-government-imported-text.tiddlyspot.com/ which imports 
all tiddlers matching filter from  
http://american-government-in-the-information-age.tiddlyspot.com/, which 
used text-slicer to parse the html of an epub. I then transclude all 
tiddlers using a series of <$list> commands.  Not bad for a quick import of 
epub. Work to be done, but proof of concept, at least.

//steve.


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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlyMap, politicial map, democracy

Alex, very cool, I like it. Some of my students are working with 
twitter-bots in TW; I'll try to dig it up & share. //steve.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:43:29 PM UTC-4, AlexHough wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> It occurred to me that TW could get a boost though engagement with news 
> stories emerging via twitter. The new trend-- if we can call it that-- of 
> making threads by replying to yourself comes quite close to a set of 
> tiddlers. Dreaming for a second-- what if a TW were used in a newspaper 
> story by the newspaper. As an index maybe?
>
> TW is a "non-linear web based notebook", I was thinking that a possible 
> niche use is a "non-linear web based index". Twitter threads and news 
> stories relate to each other, but the reader comes into the text from any 
> number of points.
>
> best wishes
>
> Alex
>
> On 9 May 2017 at 18:59, @TiddlyTweeter  
> wrote:
>
>> Ciao Alex
>>
>> I thought it is well worth showing.
>>
>> Josiah 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> AlexHough wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been following a news story on Twitter [1] and have made a quick 
>>> TW [2]
>>>
>>> The larger context [3] is complex, i think TW could help people navigate 
>>> the situtation 
>>>
>> ...
>>>
>>> [1] https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/861346191115735040 
>>> 
>>> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica 
>>> 
>>> [3] 
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>>> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica
>>> [3] 
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>>>
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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlyMap, politicial map, democracy

2017-05-09 Thread Alex Hough

Hello,

It occurred to me that TW could get a boost though engagement with news
stories emerging via twitter. The new trend-- if we can call it that-- of
making threads by replying to yourself comes quite close to a set of
tiddlers. Dreaming for a second-- what if a TW were used in a newspaper
story by the newspaper. As an index maybe?

TW is a "non-linear web based notebook", I was thinking that a possible
niche use is a "non-linear web based index". Twitter threads and news
stories relate to each other, but the reader comes into the text from any
number of points.

best wishes

Alex

On 9 May 2017 at 18:59, @TiddlyTweeter  wrote:

> Ciao Alex
>
> I thought it is well worth showing.
>
> Josiah
>
>
>
>
> AlexHough wrote:
>>
>> I've been following a news story on Twitter [1] and have made a quick TW
>> [2]
>>
>> The larger context [3] is complex, i think TW could help people navigate
>> the situtation
>>
> ...
>>
>> [1] https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/861346191115735040
>> 
>> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica
>> 
>> [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-
>> great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica
>> [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-
>> great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>>
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Re: [tw] Re: On using a CDN

2017-05-09 Thread Arlen Beiler

Interesting thoughts, all of you.

My first thought is, there goes the privacy of using TiddlyWiki. Google
> isn't free. You pay by giving up your privacy. Granted, I don't have
> anything on a publicly accessible tiddlywiki site that is all that private
> but I do use it at home and it is nobody's business but mine what I keep
> there or when I access it.
>

I am not talking about the info stored in each TiddlyWiki, only the core
plugin. So I don't really understand what you mean here. I am specifically
talking about people that use TiddlyWiki for a website or other online
collaboration tool where they are already downloading it over the internet.
So that takes out most of these privacy questions, although not all.

Which CDN do you propose to host it? What happens when it gets hacked and
> all of us suddenly have exploit code inside our tiddlywikis? What happens
> if the country that the CDN is in decides to order them to include spyware?
> What happens if the country it is in outlaws consumer encryption, are we
> going to lose the 'encrypt tiddler' option? Are we still going to see the
> button but not know about the backdoor that got forced to be put in?
>

These are very good questions. I first want to say that I don't expect
people to use it most of the time for local files because you could be
stuck if the internet goes down. This is for public TiddlyWikis that are
hosted online and for people who store their TiddlyWikis in a Dropbox
account and use the web app that Jeremy and I made for it, as well as any
other services that work like that. Not that it would be required, it would
only decrease the file size. The linux world uses checksums and hashes to
ensure file integrity and authenticity, and I think we could do that
automatically here as well (the implementation details I gave above would
change).

A wiki is a complete application. I don't think we can let the user select
which version they use, as that is -- and should be -- baked into the HTML
file, only whether to get it from the CDN or include it in the file.

It would be easy to have a mechanism in place to allow a person to
temporarily load a local copy in case the internet goes down.

Once again, I don't think this should be the default way. I only think that
it could be a benefit to a (hopefully) increasing percentage of users. It
would also work well for TiddlyWiki hosting services.

@Mat, your message came in while I was writing this. I will see if I can
pull together a proof of concept.

Thanks,
-Arlen

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 1:00 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I noticed this when I was testing twederation. I don't know that the
> server I use compresses data and even if it did I'm sure the host provider
> is counting final file size, not compression stream.
>
> I think if it could be configured so the user gets to choose whether TW
> uses an external library, and what library that is, that it would satisfy
> the demands for security and privacy.
>
> I would assume that the default core would be at TiddlyWiki.com, but
> people might put their own library on a server that was closer.
>
> -- Mark
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:23:21 AM UTC-7, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>>
>> Yes, yes, I know. TiddlyWiki is supposed to be a single file
>> architecture. And it is. And it will be when I am done with this too. So
>> hear me out.
>>
>> As I am working on an upgrade to the current TiddlyWiki Cloud Dropbox
>> saver. I keep thinking that there has to be a better way than uploading 1.5
>> MB every time. I know full well what most of that space is. Its mostly one
>> very crucial and important plugin that never changes without an official
>> release of TiddlyWiki. Because it IS TiddlyWiki. I am of course referring
>> to $:/core.
>>
>> It weighs a whopping 1.2 MB. Not much compared to some libraries, but it
>> is a bit. And I wonder if there isn't some way that we can put that file
>> somewhere online so that as we get into Federation and more online hosting
>> and collaboration using TiddlyWiki, we don't have to keep GBs of TiddlyWiki
>> Core 5.1.14 (and then 15, and so on) in our cache and constantly
>> redownloading it everytime we visit a new website.
>>
>> That's the main point. TiddlyWikis that are hosted online don't need to
>> contain their own copy of the core. They should be able to use the copy
>> that get's downloaded from the CDN, since then you can cache that copy and
>> use it on every website you visit.
>>
>> We could add a second button in the Control Panel that would allow you to
>> download a TiddlyWiki with a reference to the correct version on the CDN
>> instead of the including the core in the download. There should also be an
>> easy way for the renderer to know whether it is supposed to add the core or
>> include the link.
>>
>> I think the link should be in head and I don't know for sure but I am
>> imagining that it would use the preloadTiddlers mechanism. Or it should be
>> included

[tw] Re: On using a CDN

2017-05-09 Thread Mat

Arlen - an option to have it as a single file OR via CND ,WOULD BE 
FANTASTIC!

If the CDN is on some Google service, Github, in the coporate local server, 
in a Beaker Browser or wherever is a whole other matter.

Such a CDN could potetially also host plugins... even "all of them"... and 
any content for that matter.

Would love to see a proof-of-concept.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: TiddlyMap, politicial map, democracy

Ciao Alex

I thought it is well worth showing.

Josiah 




AlexHough wrote:
>
> I've been following a news story on Twitter [1] and have made a quick TW 
> [2]
>
> The larger context [3] is complex, i think TW could help people navigate 
> the situtation 
>
...
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/861346191115735040 
> 
> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica 
> 
> [3] 
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
> [2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica
> [3] 
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

There is a fairly good overview of Interactivity in EPUB 3 here: 
http://epubzone.org/news/epub-3-and-interactivity

I think the point is that its not gonna universally embrace freed JS. That 
does not stop US developing a different approach that approximates them AND 
adds other functions.

A sort of honed TW-Pub with better performance at scale than TW native. Or 
a neat way to produce ePubs that then get wrapped conventionally. Or both.

Just thoughts
Josiah

Lost Admin wrote:
>
> As I understand it, EPUB version 3 is supposed to support some sort of 
> interactivity through javascript. However, I don't know how many ebook 
> readers that support epubs actually fully support version 3.  
>

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[tw] Re: On using a CDN

I noticed this when I was testing twederation. I don't know that the server 
I use compresses data and even if it did I'm sure the host provider is 
counting final file size, not compression stream.

I think if it could be configured so the user gets to choose whether TW 
uses an external library, and what library that is, that it would satisfy 
the demands for security and privacy.

I would assume that the default core would be at TiddlyWiki.com, but people 
might put their own library on a server that was closer.

-- Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:23:21 AM UTC-7, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> Yes, yes, I know. TiddlyWiki is supposed to be a single file architecture. 
> And it is. And it will be when I am done with this too. So hear me out. 
>
> As I am working on an upgrade to the current TiddlyWiki Cloud Dropbox 
> saver. I keep thinking that there has to be a better way than uploading 1.5 
> MB every time. I know full well what most of that space is. Its mostly one 
> very crucial and important plugin that never changes without an official 
> release of TiddlyWiki. Because it IS TiddlyWiki. I am of course referring 
> to $:/core. 
>
> It weighs a whopping 1.2 MB. Not much compared to some libraries, but it 
> is a bit. And I wonder if there isn't some way that we can put that file 
> somewhere online so that as we get into Federation and more online hosting 
> and collaboration using TiddlyWiki, we don't have to keep GBs of TiddlyWiki 
> Core 5.1.14 (and then 15, and so on) in our cache and constantly 
> redownloading it everytime we visit a new website. 
>
> That's the main point. TiddlyWikis that are hosted online don't need to 
> contain their own copy of the core. They should be able to use the copy 
> that get's downloaded from the CDN, since then you can cache that copy and 
> use it on every website you visit. 
>
> We could add a second button in the Control Panel that would allow you to 
> download a TiddlyWiki with a reference to the correct version on the CDN 
> instead of the including the core in the download. There should also be an 
> easy way for the renderer to know whether it is supposed to add the core or 
> include the link. 
>
> I think the link should be in head and I don't know for sure but I am 
> imagining that it would use the preloadTiddlers mechanism. Or it should be 
> included directly before bootprefix or which ever script tag brings in the 
> preloadedTiddlers.
>
> Anyway, thoughts?
>
> -Arlen
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Jeremy's Slicer is excellent for simple cases. It requires certain criteria 
to be met to function well.

One thing about PRE-PROCESSORS is how much of the heavy lifting they do or 
not.

Its all very well to chunk some vast document into Tiddler units. But what 
also matters is what they are capable of for generating organizational 
metadata. 

I'm personally very interested in how smart pre-processing could be. My aim 
being to absolutely reduce to as low a level as possible later manual 
editing.

Josiah

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[tw] Re: On using a CDN

2017-05-09 Thread PMario

Just as an info.

tiddlywiki.com ... over the wire 1.34 MByte   ... file size 4 MByte
empty.html ... 395 KB ... 1.86 MB

according to FireFox dev-tools. 

-m

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[tw] Re: On using a CDN

2017-05-09 Thread Lost Admin

My first thought is, there goes the privacy of using TiddlyWiki. Google 
isn't free. You pay by giving up your privacy. Granted, I don't have 
anything on a publicly accessible tiddlywiki site that is all that private 
but I do use it at home and it is nobody's business but mine what I keep 
there or when I access it.

Which CDN do you propose to host it? What happens when it gets hacked and 
all of us suddenly have exploit code inside our tiddlywikis? What happens 
if the country that the CDN is in decides to order them to include spyware? 
What happens if the country it is in outlaws consumer encryption, are we 
going to lose the 'encrypt tiddler' option? Are we still going to see the 
button but not know about the backdoor that got forced to be put in?

If that doesn't sell you, and plenty of people have given up on having any 
personal privacy or real security so I accept it may not.

My tiddlywiki at home works even when the Internet connection goes down. 
Even if I have a completely empty cache. It works on my laptop locally when 
there is no wifi. Tiddlywiki just works and that is a big selling point for 
me.

Finally, gzip an empty.html tiddlywiki. How big is it now? Because that is 
the size that actually matters. Modern web browsers and web servers (all 
the big ones like iis, apache, nginx, and even lighttpd) all support 
compressing static content before delivery. So, what actually goes across 
the wire on a properly configured web server is considerably less that the 
uncompressed file size if the web server was configured to support it.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:23:21 AM UTC-4, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> Yes, yes, I know. TiddlyWiki is supposed to be a single file architecture. 
> And it is. And it will be when I am done with this too. So hear me out. 
>
> As I am working on an upgrade to the current TiddlyWiki Cloud Dropbox 
> saver. I keep thinking that there has to be a better way than uploading 1.5 
> MB every time. I know full well what most of that space is. Its mostly one 
> very crucial and important plugin that never changes without an official 
> release of TiddlyWiki. Because it IS TiddlyWiki. I am of course referring 
> to $:/core. 
>
> It weighs a whopping 1.2 MB. Not much compared to some libraries, but it 
> is a bit. And I wonder if there isn't some way that we can put that file 
> somewhere online so that as we get into Federation and more online hosting 
> and collaboration using TiddlyWiki, we don't have to keep GBs of TiddlyWiki 
> Core 5.1.14 (and then 15, and so on) in our cache and constantly 
> redownloading it everytime we visit a new website. 
>
> That's the main point. TiddlyWikis that are hosted online don't need to 
> contain their own copy of the core. They should be able to use the copy 
> that get's downloaded from the CDN, since then you can cache that copy and 
> use it on every website you visit. 
>
> We could add a second button in the Control Panel that would allow you to 
> download a TiddlyWiki with a reference to the correct version on the CDN 
> instead of the including the core in the download. There should also be an 
> easy way for the renderer to know whether it is supposed to add the core or 
> include the link. 
>
> I think the link should be in head and I don't know for sure but I am 
> imagining that it would use the preloadTiddlers mechanism. Or it should be 
> included directly before bootprefix or which ever script tag brings in the 
> preloadedTiddlers.
>
> Anyway, thoughts?
>
> -Arlen
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

I didn't realize that Jeremy's slicer could handle HTML directly. That's a 
real time saver.

I see that some formatting is lost. In particular, the  tag used in the 
preamble of chapter 1. This might mean that other formatting (like bold) 
might also be lost in some places. 

It appears to me that you might want to start over with a different 
starting tiddler name, since "Sliced up Amgov.htm..." appears in every 
tiddler and in every link. I can imagine how students would respond to 
that. 

I think if it was me I'd want some way to get rid of the pink text.

Have fun!
Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:20:43 AM UTC-7, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
> OK, then, here is a workflow to go from epub -> html -> tiddlywiki.
>
> (1) I download the epub version of 
> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
> (2) Use pandoc to convert to html (http://pandoc.org/)
>
> pandoc -f epub -t html American-Government-and-Politics-in-the-Information
> -Age-1479837299._3.epub -o Amgov.html
>
>
> (3) Import Amgov.html to a text-slicer edition of TiddlyWiki  
> http://tiddlywiki.com/editions/text-slicer/
>
>
> (4) The results are here:
>
>
> http://american-government-in-the-information-age.tiddlyspot.com/
>
>
> Pretty good for 5 minutes of work - not counting the time to download 
> pandoc & teach myself to use it :)
>
>
> (5) Next steps: work on displaying TW tiddlers in an organized fashion 
> using the list fields. That should be relatively straightforward. I'll 
> report back to this thread soon...
>
>
> //steve.
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-4, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.
>>>
>>
>> Yes - that is exactly what I am saying.  Here is an example: 
>> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
>>
>> How would I begin to import this into TW?
>>
>> //steve.
>>
>>


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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Ciao Mark & Steve

I have two comments ...

1 - CHUNKING is also about the semantics of the original text. In novels 
the working optimal seems to be the paragraph. Though in some cases (Like 
*Finnegan's 
Wake*) it might be the sentence. For poetry its the line. I think its a 
mistake to allow practical workability to override the meaning units 
needed. Of course, there are cases where chapter units might work. It very 
much depends on the nature of the work. And on the purpose of doing it.

2 - HOW to CHUNK is I think very important and interesting issue. 
Personally I use a Regular Expression engine that lets me input a vanilla 
text and directly output fully formed Tiddlers. Of course I have to put 
hours into getting it to work. But the output requires me to do nothing. 
Its already fully chunked and ordered with embedded fields. I don't even 
JSON. I just inject it directly into a TW.

Best wishes
Josiah 

Steve wrote:

> OK, then, here is a workflow to go from epub -> html -> tiddlywiki.
>

Mark S. wrote:
>
> There are multiple approaches, depending on how you want things chunked. 
> Chunking matters because your students will probably be commenting at 
> whatever "chunk" level you provide. 
>

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[tw] TiddlyMap, politicial map, democracy

2017-05-09 Thread Alex Hough

Dear All,

I've been following a news story on Twitter [1] and have made a quick TW [2]

The larger context [3] is complex, i think TW could help people navigate
the situtation

best wishes

Alex


[1] https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/861346191115735040
[2] https://alexhough.github.io/CambridgeAnalytica
[3]
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Wow - amazing. While I was typing up some approaches, you already did it!

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:20:43 AM UTC-7, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
> OK, then, here is a workflow to go from epub -> html -> tiddlywiki.
>
> (1) I download the epub version of 
> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
> (2) Use pandoc to convert to html (http://pandoc.org/)
>
> pandoc -f epub -t html American-Government-and-Politics-in-the-Information
> -Age-1479837299._3.epub -o Amgov.html
>
>
> (3) Import Amgov.html to a text-slicer edition of TiddlyWiki  
> http://tiddlywiki.com/editions/text-slicer/
>
>
> (4) The results are here:
>
>
> http://american-government-in-the-information-age.tiddlyspot.com/
>
>
> Pretty good for 5 minutes of work - not counting the time to download 
> pandoc & teach myself to use it :)
>
>
> (5) Next steps: work on displaying TW tiddlers in an organized fashion 
> using the list fields. That should be relatively straightforward. I'll 
> report back to this thread soon...
>
>
> //steve.
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-4, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.
>>>
>>
>> Yes - that is exactly what I am saying.  Here is an example: 
>> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
>>
>> How would I begin to import this into TW?
>>
>> //steve.
>>
>>


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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

2017-05-09 Thread Lost Admin



On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:34:18 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I've never seen an epub with javascript ability. I know PDFs can have some 
> ability, but I don't think I've ever seen an example of one. The problem is 
> that javascript could be used in theory to hack a system, so adoption has 
> been slow.
>

As I understand it, EPUB version 3 is supposed to support some sort of 
interactivity through javascript. However, I don't know how many ebook 
readers that support epubs actually fully support version 3.  

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[tw] On using a CDN

2017-05-09 Thread Arlen Beiler

Yes, yes, I know. TiddlyWiki is supposed to be a single file architecture.
And it is. And it will be when I am done with this too. So hear me out.

As I am working on an upgrade to the current TiddlyWiki Cloud Dropbox
saver. I keep thinking that there has to be a better way than uploading 1.5
MB every time. I know full well what most of that space is. Its mostly one
very crucial and important plugin that never changes without an official
release of TiddlyWiki. Because it IS TiddlyWiki. I am of course referring
to $:/core.

It weighs a whopping 1.2 MB. Not much compared to some libraries, but it is
a bit. And I wonder if there isn't some way that we can put that file
somewhere online so that as we get into Federation and more online hosting
and collaboration using TiddlyWiki, we don't have to keep GBs of TiddlyWiki
Core 5.1.14 (and then 15, and so on) in our cache and constantly
redownloading it everytime we visit a new website.

That's the main point. TiddlyWikis that are hosted online don't need to
contain their own copy of the core. They should be able to use the copy
that get's downloaded from the CDN, since then you can cache that copy and
use it on every website you visit.

We could add a second button in the Control Panel that would allow you to
download a TiddlyWiki with a reference to the correct version on the CDN
instead of the including the core in the download. There should also be an
easy way for the renderer to know whether it is supposed to add the core or
include the link.

I think the link should be in head and I don't know for sure but I am
imagining that it would use the preloadTiddlers mechanism. Or it should be
included directly before bootprefix or which ever script tag brings in the
preloadedTiddlers.

Anyway, thoughts?

-Arlen

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

There are multiple approaches, depending on how you want things chunked. 
Chunking matters because your students will probably be commenting at 
whatever "chunk" level you provide. So if you want paragraph-by-paragraph 
chunking, then you're going to need to chunk things into single-paragraph 
level tiddler chunks.

The more chunks, the more overhead, which is why it becomes tempting to 
chunk at the chapter or section level.

One way to proceed would be to install tiddlyclip. Then go through the 
original text and clip the text you wanted piece by piece. You could do 
this as plain text or as converted TW markup text. I don't know if 
tiddlyclip can clip the original HTML or not -- I'd have to study the docs. 
The problems with this approach is that you would need to tag or add fields 
to your resulting tiddlers so that you could link a series of paragraphs up 
together as chapters and sections. So, it's labor intensive.

Another approach is to drag and drop chapters (or selected paragraphs) into 
your new TiddlyWiki and then import the text. This brings in the original 
HTML formatting so it looks like the original text but the actual text is 
harder to edit and it's going to be a little bit bigger (because the text 
has HTML tags in it). You will want to tweak the HTML to remove the 
next/back links (either eliminate them or point them at the appropriate 
tiddler). Of course, you probably won't need to edit the text after this 
tweaking so HTMN might be all right. You will need to add your own titles 
to each tiddler chunk you import. You will probably want to either come up 
with titles that will allow the entire text to be sorted by title and/or 
add fields and tags that will allow the text to be reassembled as one 
document.

Another approach would be to find the original HTML source text. I think 
the epub could be decompiled to do this. Put all the source HTML into one 
big HTML file and then convert it by a series of replacements into TW 
markup. Then paste the whole thing at once into a giant tiddler. Jeremy has 
a slicer tool/plugin that can then break out the text into smaller tiddlers 
of connected text. This last approach may actually be the easiest in the 
long run.

As you can see, there's a bunch of things to think about. What size 
chunking? How much of the original formatting? How to connect the pieces 
together?

HTH
Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:36:41 AM UTC-7, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.
>>
>
> Yes - that is exactly what I am saying.  Here is an example: 
> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
>
> How would I begin to import this into TW?
>
> //steve.
>
>
>>>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

OK, then, here is a workflow to go from epub -> html -> tiddlywiki.

(1) I download the epub version of 
http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
(2) Use pandoc to convert to html (http://pandoc.org/)

pandoc -f epub -t html American-Government-and-Politics-in-the-Information-
Age-1479837299._3.epub -o Amgov.html


(3) Import Amgov.html to a text-slicer edition of TiddlyWiki  
http://tiddlywiki.com/editions/text-slicer/


(4) The results are here:


http://american-government-in-the-information-age.tiddlyspot.com/


Pretty good for 5 minutes of work - not counting the time to download 
pandoc & teach myself to use it :)


(5) Next steps: work on displaying TW tiddlers in an organized fashion 
using the list fields. That should be relatively straightforward. I'll 
report back to this thread soon...


//steve.




On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-4, Steven Schneider wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.
>>
>
> Yes - that is exactly what I am saying.  Here is an example: 
> http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/
>
> How would I begin to import this into TW?
>
> //steve.
>
>
>>>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Ciao Mark

Mark S. wrote:
>
> ... your paragraphs are really small,
>

Absolutely right. Novels that have lots of dialogue like ...

"Did you eat the sandwich?", she said

"Are you questioning my motives?", he replied

She responded, "No, just whether you liked cheese with pickle."

... etc
 
End up as vast numbers of Tiddlers if para chunked.

Josiah

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Ciao Steve

Its also an issue using Google Groups on web. As a web user of it I'm not 
really thinking its also an email list. Looking at it I see there is a CC 
field I should uncheck.

BUT the problem is, you as the author maybe want copies to go to those 
people, so how would I know when to UNcheck it? 

C'est la vie. I will now :-)

Best wishes
Josiah

Steven Schneider wrote:
>
> Hi folks - I made a major faux pas in the group by cc'ing this message to 
> others -- I meant to forward it 
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education



On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.
>

Yes - that is exactly what I am saying.  Here is an 
example: http://open.lib.umn.edu/americangovernment/

How would I begin to import this into TW?

//steve.


>>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

I've never seen an epub with javascript ability. I know PDFs can have some 
ability, but I don't think I've ever seen an example of one. The problem is 
that javascript could be used in theory to hack a system, so adoption has 
been slow.

Each tiddler adds 100 to 200 bytes of overhead, depending on additional 
fields and tags.

That book you mentioned must have been huge. Unless my math is off, or your 
paragraphs are really small, it could be 10 to 20 megs. Even Moby Dick is 
only 1.2 megs 

Text compresses really well. Thinking out loud, I wonder if there could be 
a Tiddler Template to decompress text. Then huge books could be packed into 
a TW. You would view the content through a viewer page that would display 
the content normally.  

-- Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:16:33 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> I agree that "chunking" is the central issue on performance. It is my 
> experience in testing that the more fine grained the chunking the slower 
> the performance. And it gets worse the larger the file. 
>
> An interesting issue is, once the text is completed, is whether it would 
> be possible to output the "ePub version" with optimized JavaScript 
> dedicated to specific limited functions & not all of what TW normally does. 
> It might be worth thinking on since ePubs are increasingly ubiquitous. 
>
> Josiah
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> The broader questions I would have is, how do you want to "chunk" the 
>> text into TW, and then how do you want overlay or link commentaries? The 
>> smaller the level of chunking, the easier it is to comment on precise bits 
>> of text, but the larger the file size and the slower the TW will be. 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Hi folks - I made a major faux pas in the group by cc'ing this message to 
others -- I meant to forward it to them. If you could, please take care not 
to "reply all" so we don't flood their mailbox. My apologies to all. 
//steve.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:16:33 AM UTC-4, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> I agree that "chunking" is the central issue on performance. It is my 
> experience in testing that the more fine grained the chunking the slower 
> the performance. And it gets worse the larger the file. 
>
> An interesting issue is, once the text is completed, is whether it would 
> be possible to output the "ePub version" with optimized JavaScript 
> dedicated to specific limited functions & not all of what TW normally does. 
> It might be worth thinking on since ePubs are increasingly ubiquitous. 
>
> Josiah
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> The broader questions I would have is, how do you want to "chunk" the 
>> text into TW, and then how do you want overlay or link commentaries? The 
>> smaller the level of chunking, the easier it is to comment on precise bits 
>> of text, but the larger the file size and the slower the TW will be. 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Ciao Mark S.

I agree that "chunking" is the central issue on performance. It is my 
experience in testing that the more fine grained the chunking the slower 
the performance. And it gets worse the larger the file. 

An interesting issue is, once the text is completed, is whether it would be 
possible to output the "ePub version" with optimized JavaScript dedicated 
to specific limited functions & not all of what TW normally does. It might 
be worth thinking on since ePubs are increasingly ubiquitous. 

Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>
> The broader questions I would have is, how do you want to "chunk" the text 
> into TW, and then how do you want overlay or link commentaries? The smaller 
> the level of chunking, the easier it is to comment on precise bits of text, 
> but the larger the file size and the slower the TW will be. 
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

Ciao Lost Admin

I agree with you that beyond a certain scale native TW may not work for 
ePubs. In tests I did full scale novels (where the unit was 1 tid = 1 
paragraph of novel of over 4,000 paras) became unwieldy. HOWEVER, it may be 
possible to optimize further. And TW has potential for authoring texts 
ready for ePub-ing inside a wrapper. I think there is definite potential.

Josiah 

Lost Admin wrote:
>
> A couple of times now, I've seen this talk of TW and ePub. I've done a bit 
> of digging into the epub format and I don't understand how you can 
> integrate TW and epub. ePub is a container format 
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education

I think he's saying that he wants to convert existing texts into TW.

I've gone through this exercise with some classical texts (e.g. a couple 
plays at shakespeare.tiddlyspot.com, bibles). Classical text doesn't have 
special formatting to worry about. Well structured data can be imported 
fairly quickly. The questions for the mentioned epubs would be, do you want 
to bring in all the text formatting, and if so, do you want to do it as TW 
markup, Markdown markup, or original HTML ?

The broader questions I would have is, how do you want to "chunk" the text 
into TW, and then how do you want overlay or link commentaries? The smaller 
the level of chunking, the easier it is to comment on precise bits of text, 
but the larger the file size and the slower the TW will be. 

I can imagine that you could show all the verses in a text and then have a 
highlighted asterisk after the text. Click on the asterisk and there would 
appear a note box that a student could record notes about that passage. A 
report tiddler would aggregate all the comments made. I'm guessing that 
that would be too inflexible.

Good luck,
Mark

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:56:41 AM UTC-7, Lost Admin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:00:17 PM UTC-4, Steven Schneider wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> # Rendering open texts published as ePub (or mobi or wxr or odt: this is 
>> one example ) in TW so that 
>> students can submit assignments as comments on the text. 
>> ...
>>
>
> A couple of times now, I've seen this talk of TW and ePub. I've done a bit 
> of digging into the epub format and I don't understand how you can 
> integrate TW and epub. ePub is a container format for text documents that 
> uses HTML to encode the document but it also places some pretty tight 
> limits on the HTML and per-html-file size. On top of all that, the document 
> needs to fall-back gracefully to the limits imposed by ebook readers with 
> limited RAM. So, how do you propose to merge the two?
>
> I suppose, if you kept the TW file small enough you could wrap it in the 
> structure of an epub and it might render properly in some ebook readers but 
> I don't think you could save changes back into the epub file without a 
> custom epub reader.
>
>

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[tw] Re: [TW5] Concatenate two or more fields for title of new tiddler?

2017-05-09 Thread Mat

As I understand it, one can say It "evaluates" the text and saves the 
result. ("Text" here refers to the input to the WikifyWidget, not to the 
tiddlers text field)

My typical scenaro is trying to do something with e.g the SetWidget only to 
literally (and annoyingly) get, say, {{!!title}} when I wanted the 
evaluated result, i.e the actual title. So the WikifyWidget stores the 
evaluated ("wikified") result in my variable .

<:-)

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[tw] Re: TiddlyWiki in Education